So what Yall think?

[olevetonahill]

Close Gitmo , Keep it open. what?

What the hell we gonna do with it if we close it?

Ive heard folks say It cost so much money to keep those prisoners there. Well hell we gonna Keep that base regardless right?

[IGotNoTiming]

Seems like it has outlived its usefulness... and I say that,if they have actually busted terrorists cells because of info garnered from detainees....

if not it is a no brainer and a black eye for us

[Turd_Ferguson]

Seems like it has outlived its usefulness... and I say that,if they have actually busted terrorists cells because of info garnered from detainees....

if not it is a no brainer and a black eye for us

Elaborate, please.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

let the DNC have it. they need to be more clandestine, anyway.

[IGotNoTiming]

I will try my best to explain. I hope it is clear....

First off.... none of us know what kind of information has been gained from detainees there.... None of that is made public....

Secondly, say if we stopped an actual attack on American soil because of information we gathered from there, fine, it may help us defend its existence. But on face value it requires stretching our laws to the furthest.

Lastly, what is the government's position? Are they going to prosecute anyone there? Is it true that many innocent people are being detained? If so, how do we defend holding them? We can't.

I will admit, while I don't like it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I will try my best to explain. I hope it is clear....

First off.... none of us know what kind of information has been gained from detainees there.... None of that is made public....

Secondly, say if we stopped an actual attack on American soil because of information we gathered from there, fine, it may help us defend its existence. But on face value it requires stretching our laws to the furthest.

Lastly, what is the government's position? Are they going to prosecute anyone there? Is it true that many innocent people are being detained? If so, how do we defend holding them? We can't.

I will admit, while I don't like it.Do you have a former user name on this message board?

[IGotNoTiming]

Yeah back in the 90's it was Class of 93.... at some point when the site changed over I cant remember when... I had to get a new username....

[cleller]

Gitmo still open? You must be mistaken. 2008:

UQXZoM__vU0

[rock on sooner]

If some of the interviews I've heard and some of the stories
I've read are true, then there has been actionable intelligence
acquired at Gitmo. There is a book...Black Banner.. that tells
the story of how some higher ups in Al Queda were identified
and, in a couple of cases, eliminated. At this point in time, I
think Gitmo, as a prison facility, has become obsolete. As a
military installation, it probably still has some value, although
I don't know what it would be. It has, in the past, been used
as a staging area for military exercises.

Having said that, it still might have value in prisoner interviews,
as on tv with "one way ticket to Gitmo"...Patriot Act, etc...

[Lott's Bandana]

One thing Gitmo is used for is a marshalling area for fleet deployment work-ups. The ships pickup the riders (evaluation teams) there and immediately get to it. Similar to Hawai'i, there isn't a long transit to deeper water and many of the weapons ranges used to train pre-deployment battle groups are very close to that part of the South Atlantic. The weather is predictable, the natives and shipping lanes few.

Having said that, I'm sure the caché of having a thorn in Communist Cuba's side is much more than just providing a nice logistics location for the Atlantic Fleet. Rosey Roads would probably serve the same purpose in the PR.

[KantoSooner]

Gitmo is way too public and thus is a PR nightmare for the US. My proposal is simple.

1. If you pick up a person in the field who is deemed to be low value, you squeeze him in the field, then execute him, in the field.

2. If you pick up a person in the field who is deemed to be of high value, you squeeze him in the field, then transport him to a mothballed naval vessel anchored somewhere in the South Pacific. Then you question him at leisure until such time as you deem that you've gotten all there is to get out of him. Then you sink him in deep water. About every ten years or so, said naval vessel is towed to deep water and sunk.

3. Neither of these policies is ever acknowledged at any level.

Problem solved.

[olevetonahill]

One thing Gitmo is used for is a marshalling area for fleet deployment work-ups. The ships pickup the riders (evaluation teams) there and immediately get to it. Similar to Hawai'i, there isn't a long transit to deeper water and many of the weapons ranges used to train pre-deployment battle groups are very close to that part of the South Atlantic. The weather is predictable, the natives and shipping lanes few.


Having said that, I'm sure the caché of having a thorn in Communist Cuba's side is much more than just providing a nice logistics location for the Atlantic Fleet. Rosey Roads would probably serve the same purpose in the PR.

Bingo. Its been a thorn in the Castros hide for a LONG time.
Now when they talk about "Closing Gitmo" are they talking the entire base? or just the prison there?

Plus if they are just going to ship the prisoners somewhere else, whats the point?

[Lott's Bandana]

I think Gitmo stays as a base until Cuba is "repatriated". A prison? Probably running on fumes, although the current administration has had quite some time to 86 the thing.

[olevetonahill]

I think Gitmo stays as a base until Cuba is "repatriated". A prison? Probably running on fumes, although the current administration has had quite some time to 86 the thing.

I do to Bro. I still dont see the point in closing the Prison tho if all we are going t do is Move them here to a prison in the Mainland

[rock on sooner]

I do to Bro. I still dont see the point in closing the Prison tho if all we are going t do is Move them here to a prison in the Mainland

Vet, I think the big thing here is that nearly all of what's
still being held is being held without due process. A bunch
of congress people stand in the way of bringing them to
a prison...e.g. there is a prison in Illinois, close to IA that
the Feds wanted to buy and convert to a Super Max but
that fell through. If the prisoners are brought to the U.S.
then, due process will kick in and, probably get either charged
or released and the gov't is having a hard time finding countries
to take them. Another issue is that a handful that have been
released have gone right back in the field trying to kill Americans.
Gitmo really is a Catch 22. Kanto had a workable solution but
that would only have worked if that had been done at the start.

[olevetonahill]

Gitmo is way too public and thus is a PR nightmare for the US. My proposal is simple.

1. If you pick up a person in the field who is deemed to be low value, you squeeze him in the field, then execute him, in the field.

2. If you pick up a person in the field who is deemed to be of high value, you squeeze him in the field, then transport him to a mothballed naval vessel anchored somewhere in the South Pacific. Then you question him at leisure until such time as you deem that you've gotten all there is to get out of him. Then you sink him in deep water. About every ten years or so, said naval vessel is towed to deep water and sunk.

3. Neither of these policies is ever acknowledged at any level.

Problem solved.

So turn em into Shark Poop?

[OU68]

Transfer Santiago. Yes I suppose you're right. I suppose that's the thing to do. Wait. Wait. I've got a better idea. Let's transfer the whole squad off the base. Let's -- on second thought-Windward. The whole Windward division, let's transfer 'em off the base. Jon, go on out there and get those boys down off the fence, they're packing their bags. Tom!

Get me the President on the phone, we're surrendering our position in Cuba.

[rock on sooner]

You want me on that fence! You NEED me on that fence!

[FaninAma]

Gitmo is way too public and thus is a PR nightmare for the US. My proposal is simple.

1. If you pick up a person in the field who is deemed to be low value, you squeeze him in the field, then execute him, in the field.

2. If you pick up a person in the field who is deemed to be of high value, you squeeze him in the field, then transport him to a mothballed naval vessel anchored somewhere in the South Pacific. Then you question him at leisure until such time as you deem that you've gotten all there is to get out of him. Then you sink him in deep water. About every ten years or so, said naval vessel is towed to deep water and sunk.

3. Neither of these policies is ever acknowledged at any level.

Problem solved. I think you're trying to be humorous...if not, that would make us different than the terrorists how?

[jkjsooner]

Close Gitmo , Keep it open. what?

What the hell we gonna do with it if we close it?

Ive heard folks say It cost so much money to keep those prisoners there. Well hell we gonna Keep that base regardless right?

I have no problem with Gitmo per se. It's just a facility. Keep it open.

I do have a problem with the fact that the prisoners are given no opportunity for a trial.

We can call them POW's but the war on terror isn't going to end anytime soon. This isn't a traditional war and it isn't going to end in a few years. At some point we need to stop treating them as enemy combatants and start the trial process. I believe most of the guys there are suspected of terrorist activities (not just fighting against our troops) and will ultimately be charged with a crime.

Then of course you have the issue that some of them may simply be enemy combatants. Their only crime was to fight against the US forces. In that case no crime has been committed. I don't know what to do with them. It doesn't seem right to hold a true enemy combatant for decades nor can we just release them back to the battlefield.

[jkjsooner]

One thing Gitmo is used for is a marshalling area for fleet deployment work-ups. The ships pickup the riders (evaluation teams) there and immediately get to it. Similar to Hawai'i, there isn't a long transit to deeper water and many of the weapons ranges used to train pre-deployment battle groups are very close to that part of the South Atlantic. The weather is predictable, the natives and shipping lanes few.

Having said that, I'm sure the caché of having a thorn in Communist Cuba's side is much more than just providing a nice logistics location for the Atlantic Fleet. Rosey Roads would probably serve the same purpose in the PR.

Is this a joke or did you actually think we were talking about closing the base?

[KantoSooner]

I think you're trying to be humorous...if not, that would make us different than the terrorists how?

I trust our choice in victims more than theirs.

[Lott's Bandana]

Is this a joke or did you actually think we were talking about closing the base?

When I hear the talking heads, including POTUS say, "Close Gitmo", I really can't be sure whether they want it all shut down or just the prison.

Therefore, it wasn't a joke.

[olevetonahill]

When I hear the talking heads, including POTUS say, "Close Gitmo", I really can't be sure whether they want it all shut down or just the prison.

Therefore, it wasn't a joke.

Yup. Before closing ANYTHING I'd like to know the COST and whats in it for US.

[olevetonahill]

When I hear the talking heads, including POTUS say, "Close Gitmo", I really can't be sure whether they want it all shut down or just the prison.

Therefore, it wasn't a joke.

Yup. Before closing ANYTHING I'd like to know the COST and whats in it for US.

[rock on sooner]

Welp, pretty sure it's just closing the prison, since we have discussed
thorn in Castro's butt, military exercises, strategic staging for games,
etc....

[FaninAma]

I trust our choice in victims more than theirs.

I trust our choice in victims more than theirs.
You trusted our government's intelligence about Iraq? Do you trust the IRS? How about our government's wisdom in use of taxpayer resources? What has Snowden done exactly that has compromised our intelligence gathering ability other than making it clear it is being used on innocent US citizens? Would you feel comfortable going on a rant about Obama in an email to a friend where you went overboard in your opinion of what should happen to him? Are we being turned into a police state where we cower in silence because we are afraid to say something that will garner the attention of the wrong person connected to government? I think so.

[Midtowner]

I think you're trying to be humorous...if not, that would make us different than the terrorists how?

We'd have better guns and ships and stuff.

[KantoSooner]

You trusted our government's intelligence about Iraq? Do you trust the IRS? How about our government's wisdom in use of taxpayer resources? What has Snowden done exactly that has compromised our intelligence gathering ability other than making it clear it is being used on innocent US citizens? Would you feel comfortable going on a rant about Obama in an email to a friend where you went overboard in your opinion of what should happen to him? Are we being turned into a police state where we cower in silence because we are afraid to say something that will garner the attention of the wrong person connected to government? I think so.

And I disagree.
Iraq: 4th largest tank army on earth at the time, used WMD on its own citizens, run by a crazy person and his psychopath children. Probably not wise to invade without a plan for what happens after victory, but all in all, not a bad war.

I've never liked the IRS. I want flat taxes. If you have no exemptions, you eliminate fraud and abuse.

Snowden has revealed 'methods and resources'. You don't do that. Just helps your opponent find countermeasures, and there are always countermeasures.

I try not to rant, but really, you fear a knock on your door? Really? Are you that damn special? I frequent a bar here in Bartlesville where the anti-Obama rants start around happy hour and continue without much pause until closing time. And I've yet to see anyone with an unfashionable earbud muttering into his sleeve. This is a Chicken Little concern. If you're so convinced that the sky really is falling, stop making phone calls, using your computer or wrtiting letters. Learn an obscure language and communicate only in that tongue. Write nothing down. Dig a bunker. Cower there. Whether there are cops around or not. You never know. They might be out there. Hiding. Perhaps dig down to the water table and put a well into your bunker. You can't be sure THEY haven't tampered with the water supply. Eat only hand caught lizards. Raw. Talk with no one, it might be THEM. You can never be too safe.