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if you support amnesty.
House Immigration Reform Talks Fall Apart
Wednesday, 05 Jun 2013 04:15 PM
By Greg Richter
The House's "Gang of 8" has failed in its efforts to craft an immigration reform bill and will meet today for the last time, ABC News reports.
Republican members of the team insist that newly legalized workers not be given access to Obamacare during their pathway to citizenship, essentially killing the deal, sources tell ABC.
Democratic members of the group say that since the workers would be paying taxes they deserve health care benefits. There is no expectation that the group of four Democrats and four Republicans will overcome the impasse, making it likely that any immigration legislation will move forward in piecemeal fashion.
The smaller bills would not include the 15-year pathway to citizenship that was part of the current talks.
© 2013 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
rock on sooner
6/6/2013, 10:56 AM
Amnesty or pathway to citizenship notwithstanding, the Pubs
are inflicting politically fatal wounds on themselves, it would
appear....
XingTheRubicon
6/6/2013, 11:05 AM
Pubs are screwed either way. Might as well stick to your principles and well, you know...the law.
House GOP Digs in Heels on Senate Immigration Bill
Rep. Virginia Foxx
Wednesday, 05 Jun 2013 10:57 AM
By John Gizzi
Despite confidence voiced by the White House and key senators that an immigration reform package would soon pass the Senate, all signs from Republican House members point to the package going nowhere when it reaches that side of Congress.
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters on Monday that "the president continues to be encouraged by the progress being made in the Senate on comprehensive immigration reform. That process has now passed through committee, and we look forward to a robust debate and expect the legislation to move forward in a timely manner."
Carney's remarks came as House Republicans were digging in their heels in opposing anything "comprehensive."
For the most part, Newsmax found, Republicans in the House are still firmly committed to dealing with the immigration issue on what many of them call an "incremental" or "piece-by-piece" approach rather than enacting any "package" legislation.
"If we've learned anything from Obamacare it's that Washington isn't too good at 'comprehensive' solutions. Massive laws inevitably fall short of promises and leave the country begging for real reform," Republican Rep. Virginia Foxx of North Carolina wrote recently on the Washington-based Selous Foundation for Public Policy Research's website.
Foxx, secretary of the House Republican Conference, advocated a completely different approach than the "package deal" expected to pass the Senate by July 4. As she put it: "The best way to move forward with reform is through regular order so every issue -- from enforcement and border security to E-Verify and visas -- can be fully vetted step-by-step for its alignment with America's national security and economic growth interests."
Freshman Republican Rep. Luke Messer of Indiana agreed. Reached by Newsmax on Tuesday, Messer said: "'Comprehensive' always ends up with negative, unintended consequences."
He also took exception to the oft-used term "incremental" to describe the approach of most House Republicans to an immigration package, saying the approach of dealing with immigration in separate parts is "better described as 'more germane.'"
The House Republican package "will very likely start with border security -- an issue that is a major reason people distrust their government for not doing what it says,” Messer told Newsmax. "And then we will take up the issue of workers’ visas."
He said California GOP Rep. Darrell Issa "has a bill to deal with that."
Newsmax spoke to one Republican House member who takes a slightly different approach to immigration reform. Although he prefers the step-by-step approach to a package deal, Rep. Raul Labrador of Idaho said: "I'm willing to consider anything as long as it deals with the most serious problems involving immigration. If there was a 'comprehensive' proposal that dealt with future flow [of immigrants to the U.S.], border security, and interior enforcement, I can probably support it."
Labrador also pointed out that if a package deal emerged that dealt with those problems, “we would then find out if the Democrats are serious about dealing with them."
The Senate is expected to pass a comprehensive package by July 4 and then the House Judiciary Committee under Chairman Bob Goodlatte, a Virginia Republican, will be center stage in addressing the issue.
In what might be the most prophetic of his comments on the immigration debate this week, Jay Carney said, "It’s important to note that there's a lot of work to be done here, and we've seen with a variety of issues over time that victory can be declared early. And this is real work because it's something that requires bipartisan broad support."
Whether that "broad support" exists on immigration reform will clearly be one of the most compelling stories of Congress in 2013.
John Gizzi is chief political columnist and White House correspondent for Newsmax.
© 2013 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
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Midtowner
6/6/2013, 12:23 PM
Pubs are screwed either way. Might as well stick to your principles and well, you know...the law.
Like Reagan did?
Is racist xenophobia a Republican principle? I think so, but it'd be interesting if someone would admit that.
olevetonahill
6/6/2013, 12:29 PM
Like Reagan did?
Is racist xenophobia a Republican principle? I think so, but it'd be interesting if someone would admit that.
I dont hate *******, ********, Or ******.
But do strongly dislike sissified little Daddy's boys who think they are superior to everyone else,
jkjsooner
6/6/2013, 12:29 PM
Like Reagan did?
Is racist xenophobia a Republican principle? I think so, but it'd be interesting if someone would admit that.
While I agree that Republicans should admit the obvious, I think the experience with Reagan is one of the reasons they're so strongly against amnesty. Giving amnesty in the '80s didn't solve anything. It didn't take long before we again had millions of illegal immigrants.
XingTheRubicon
6/6/2013, 12:35 PM
Like Reagan did?
Is racist xenophobia a Republican principle? I think so, but it'd be interesting if someone would admit that.
Only a c*nt of the highest order would call opposition to breaking the law, "racist."
champions77
6/6/2013, 01:17 PM
Amnesty or pathway to citizenship notwithstanding, the Pubs
are inflicting politically fatal wounds on themselves, it would
appear....
Sad when one party tries to uphold the letter of the law, and are penalized for it, while another party fully approves of such illegal activities...and is rewarded. Another example of how bass ackwards this nation has become.
Don't have to round up 12 million people here breaking the law and send them south. Just impose hefty fines on those employers that insist on hiring them. Fewer jobs available will translate into fewer illegals here. You saw that some when the economy went into the tank.
Midtowner
6/6/2013, 01:25 PM
Sad when one party tries to uphold the letter of the law, and are penalized for it, while another party fully approves of such illegal activities...and is rewarded. Another example of how bass ackwards this nation has become.
Don't have to round up 12 million people here breaking the law and send them south. Just impose hefty fines on those employers that insist on hiring them. Fewer jobs available will translate into fewer illegals here. You saw that some when the economy went into the tank.
When one party is harming people in the name of the law and the other party is in favor of a law which would be less harmful, I think that's fine. Our immigration system makes no sense from a policy standpoint. We need immigrant labor and it's readily available.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/6/2013, 02:07 PM
Only a c*nt of the highest order would call opposition to breaking the law, "racist."many on the left do it quite often, and they have for since I can remember.
champions77
6/6/2013, 02:13 PM
When one party is harming people in the name of the law and the other party is in favor of a law which would be less harmful, I think that's fine. Our immigration system makes no sense from a policy standpoint. We need immigrant labor and it's readily available.
Harming People? My gosh do the laws of the land mean anything to you? I'm afraid if you were caught in Mexico illegally and you were sent to prison, I doubt if the authorities there would look at your treatment as being "harmed".
If this country had not destroyed the work ethic the last 50 years, I doubt there would be a need for illegals to do the work. The stimulus we spent billions on should have included border security. Instead doofus entertains the Mexican President who belittles Arizona for having the audacity to perform the job of border security the feds were supposed to be doing.
When one party is harming people in the name of the law and the other party is in favor of a law which would be less harmful, I think that's fine. Our immigration system makes no sense from a policy standpoint. We need immigrant labor and it's readily available.
Harming what people?...the citizens of the United States by trying to enforce the law? Or maybe you mean the cost to the American taxpayers for amnesty? A million people a year being granted citizenship isn't enough for you?
Man when you swallow the talking points.... you really gulp it down, hook, line and sinker.
Like Reagan did?
Is racist xenophobia a Republican principle? I think so, but it'd be interesting if someone would admit that.
Only racists are against illegal immigration. When logic is absent, always fall back on the race card.
FaninAma
6/6/2013, 02:17 PM
Amnesty or pathway to citizenship notwithstanding, the Pubs
are inflicting politically fatal wounds on themselves, it would
appear....
By all means lets just do the politically expedient thing. Damn
the consequences to the country and future generations.
Amnesty or pathway to citizenship notwithstanding, the Pubs
are inflicting politically fatal wounds on themselves, it would
appear....
Aside from the harm to the country, granting citizenship to illegals will put 11,000,000 more voters against you (well really only 7-8,000,000 as pubs do get 25% of them)...does that make any sense?
FaninAma
6/6/2013, 02:23 PM
Midtowner, explain how immigrant labor
is a good thing for this country in light
if the fact we have had above 7% unemployment
for over 5 years and the average worker's wages
fell last quarter by the largest amount since 1947.
Sometimes I wonder if you progessives have the ability
to use reason at all or if you just make all of your
decisions based on emotion.
KantoSooner
6/6/2013, 03:24 PM
Take out an automatic pathway to citizenship for those here illegally now and we've probably got a deal.
Put together a nice set of hoops and hurdles to satisfy those who oppose any immigration and make it possible enough to calm down those who'd like open borders and we're there.
And, honestly, the improved border security, everify requirements, exit monitoring, guest worker program and the rest that was in the bill would be a massive step forward. It's a pity no one could step up and balance the equities and get a deal done. But the age of statesmen like Johnson, Kerr, Dole, Ford or the like are gone, at least for now.
jkjsooner
6/6/2013, 03:48 PM
Sad when one party tries to uphold the letter of the law, and are penalized for it, while another party fully approves of such illegal activities...and is rewarded. Another example of how bass ackwards this nation has become.
I think this is a very simplistic way of looking at it. I think you'd be surprised how many pro-business conservatives want and need that labor. (All you have to do is look at Oklahoma farmers to see an example of this.) I suspect many just want it to remain a shadow labor force because that reduces the immigrant's bargaining power. Once they become legal residents they have a lot more options/power.
We have millions of illegal immigrants here. It is not a viable long term situation. Both sides are looking for a way to make it a more sustainable situation. You can trivialize it as one party upholding the law and another approving of illegal activities but that does nothing to solve the issue.
I'd be in favor of putting criminal or civil penalties on employers who hire illegal workers. That's the only way you can solve the issue. However, these employers (whether liberal or conservative) are going to fight this and I think a lot of economists would argue that if done abruptly it could be very damaging to our economy. In either case, this would have to be quickly followed by an increased legal immigration policy.
Midtowner
6/6/2013, 03:52 PM
Midtowner, explain how immigrant labor
is a good thing for this country in light
if the fact we have had above 7% unemployment
for over 5 years and the average worker's wages
fell last quarter by the largest amount since 1947.
Sometimes I wonder if you progessives have the ability
to use reason at all or if you just make all of your
decisions based on emotion.
Because employers are using these people for cheap labor and they work hard. Many of them have started businesses and done very well for their families. If people want to come here and are better at the American dream than folks who were born here, good for them.
olevetonahill
6/6/2013, 04:11 PM
Because employers are using these people for cheap labor and they work hard. Many of them have started businesses and done very well for their families. If people want to come here and are better at the American dream than folks who were born here, good for them.
Again I say you are an idiot. Cheap Labor? Have you tried to hire any of em? They aint Cheap, They are however willing to WORK hard and Earn their money where as your Home Boys that you dont mind supporting sit on their asses and draw the dole.
Another Thing I notice, You seem to want to adamantly uphold the Conctitution untill it comes to Enforcing Laws on the Books Or even the 2nd.
Ya cant have it both ways retard.
FaninAma
6/6/2013, 04:41 PM
Because employers are using these people for cheap labor and they work hard. Many of them have started businesses and done very well for their families. If people want to come here and are better at the American dream than folks who were born here, good for them.
And all this time I thought the Democrats were the pro-labor party when in reality they are just the pro- cheap labor party.
How do you reconcile the position of the progressives
that supposedly wants higher wages for workers and
the progressive support for allowing more illegal cheap
labor into the country which has the opposite result?
Or do you really not care as long as your oxymoronic
policy positions keep getting votes from your dumb- downed
special interest groups in the Democratic coalition?
soonerhubs
6/6/2013, 05:15 PM
Folks. Don't feed the troll, and the troll goes away.
olevetonahill
6/6/2013, 05:34 PM
Folks. Don't feed the troll, and the troll goes away.
Naw , he should have signed up with the user name of Herpes, That shat will will always be with you.
And all this time I thought the Democrats were the pro-labor party when in reality they are just the pro- cheap labor party.
How do you reconcile the position of the progressives
that supposedly wants higher wages for workers and
the progressive support for allowing more illegal cheap
labor into the country which has the opposite result?
Or do you really not care as long as your oxymoronic
policy positions keep getting votes from your dumb- downed
special interest groups in the Democratic coalition?
well, is the problem that they are exploited or that they are taking jobs from Americans that would do them?
i don't know anyone that wants the jobs they do. i do think that they are less of a burden than a lot of the citizens we churn out.
olevetonahill
6/6/2013, 09:15 PM
well, is the problem that they are exploited or that they are taking jobs from Americans that would do them?
i don't know anyone that wants the jobs they do. i do think that they are less of a burden than a lot of the citizens we churn out.
My Point Bro.
Quit making it easy on the lazy ****ers and Make em WORK
Dayum I remember I got MY 1st ticket cost me 35 bucks as a fine
I had to go work in the Tomato fields for 3 weekends to pay it.
cleller
6/6/2013, 09:47 PM
i don't know anyone that wants the jobs they do. i do think that they are less of a burden than a lot of the citizens we churn out.
Go out and talk to people that do drywall, concrete, framing, etc. Heard it for years.
Sure, plenty work hard, etc, but for someone (not you) to deny they are taking jobs from American workers when unemployment is this high is illogical.
well, is the problem that they are exploited or that they are taking jobs from Americans that would do them?
i don't know anyone that wants the jobs they do. i do think that they are less of a burden than a lot of the citizens we churn out.
I wouldn't argue that people don't want the jobs they do, but there is a reason for that. It is a higher paying gig to sit at home and collect unemployment, or other benefits, and not have to do a thing. I can say that I personally have been told no to $13/hr job offers because it "wasn't worth giving up my benefits." There is surely a lack of work ethic in the US worker, but that lack of ethic is being rewarded not discouraged.
unemployment is temporary, and if you are making more than the equivalent of $13 an hour, you were making some pretty good money before, and probably are below $13 an hour jobs, at least temporarily, and can do better
Go out and talk to people that do drywall, concrete, framing, etc. Heard it for years.
Sure, plenty work hard, etc, but for someone (not you) to deny they are taking jobs from American workers when unemployment is this high is illogical.
i wouldn't associate with people like that.
seriously though, is that illegals or the housing crash?
what's sad is that IT shops can't hire people fast enough. learn computer skills kids...
unemployment is temporary, and if you are making more than the equivalent of $13 an hour, you were making some pretty good money before, and probably are below $13 an hour jobs, at least temporarily, and can do better
It is temporary but currently stands at half a year, or better. And the jobs I referenced were for unloading trucks, jobs that these individuals had been doing before.
i wouldn't associate with people like that.
seriously though, is that illegals or the housing crash?
what's sad is that IT shops can't hire people fast enough. learn computer skills kids...
As shocking as it may sound, not everyone is good at using computers. If Caddyshack taught us nothing, we are at a loss. The world does indeed need ditch diggers.
well, yeah. if they were i wouldn't have a job :D
Soonerjeepman
6/7/2013, 10:09 AM
Like Reagan did?
Is racist xenophobia a Republican principle? I think so, but it'd be interesting if someone would admit that.
nice, way to play the race card AGAIN...
really? because we want TRUE reform with border security and don't want non-USA citizens to get everything handed to them when we work our a$$es off to pay for things...whatever bud..you are really out of touch.
I would feel the same way if it were Canadians, Europeans, Asians, whoever.
Soonerjeepman
6/7/2013, 10:10 AM
I wouldn't argue that people don't want the jobs they do, but there is a reason for that. It is a higher paying gig to sit at home and collect unemployment, or other benefits, and not have to do a thing. I can say that I personally have been told no to $13/hr job offers because it "wasn't worth giving up my benefits." There is surely a lack of work ethic in the US worker, but that lack of ethic is being rewarded not discouraged.
A-frickin Men....
jkjsooner
6/7/2013, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't argue that people don't want the jobs they do, but there is a reason for that. It is a higher paying gig to sit at home and collect unemployment, or other benefits, and not have to do a thing. I can say that I personally have been told no to $13/hr job offers because it "wasn't worth giving up my benefits." There is surely a lack of work ethic in the US worker, but that lack of ethic is being rewarded not discouraged.
I'd really like to know what these benefits are. For a single male, I believe about the only benefit he can get is unemployment and that is temporary. Welfare was pretty much removed back in the '90s and what is left only applies to those with children.
I could be wrong about all that.
As for unemployment, it is a temporary insurance that we or our employers pay into. If a guy has been at a $70k job for 20 years and got laid off, I don't think there's anything wrong with him taking unemployment. I also don't think it's rational for him to take a low paying job that would reduce his compensation. Job consultants have said that taking the first low paying job you can find can be a career killer.
Once the unemployment runs out then I fully support that person going out and getting whatever he can find. I really don't know what government programs allow him to do otherwise - unless he is on disability or something.
olevetonahill
6/7/2013, 10:33 AM
I'd really like to know what these benefits are. For a single male, I believe about the only benefit he can get is unemployment and that is temporary. Welfare was pretty much removed back in the '90s and what is left only applies to those with children.
I could be wrong about all that.
As for unemployment, it is a temporary insurance that we or our employers pay into. If a guy has been at a $70k job for 20 years and got laid off, I don't think there's anything wrong with him taking unemployment. I also don't think it's rational for him to take a low paying job that would reduce his compensation. Job consultants have said that taking the first low paying job you can find can be a career killer.
Once the unemployment runs out then I fully support that person going out and getting whatever he can find. I really don't know what government programs allow him to do otherwise - unless he is on disability or something.
You are, ANYONE can get Food Stamps. Why i dont understand all this HUNGER in America crap. Not sure about any other Benefits, But if they know how to work the system Im sure they can get Housing help, Utility help . a Plethora of Free crap.
As for the Unemployment It is paid in as a tax by your Employer. Unless you own the company you dont pay a dime towards it.
Everytime someone files a claim and gets it that Companies Rates go up. Which is why Most will fight it if the person was an POS employee.
Turd_Ferguson
6/7/2013, 12:05 PM
Because employers are illegally using these people for cheap labor and they work hard. Many of them have illegally started businesses and done very well for their families. If people want to come here illegally and are better at the American dream because they don't pay taxes like the folks who were born here, good for them.
This makes more sense coming from you...
jkjsooner
6/7/2013, 01:28 PM
You are, ANYONE can get Food Stamps. Why i dont understand all this HUNGER in America crap. Not sure about any other Benefits, But if they know how to work the system Im sure they can get Housing help, Utility help . a Plethora of Free crap.
Fair enough. But food stamps isn't going to keep you from taking a job unless you shack up with mom and dad and then I don't know if you would qualify.
As for the Unemployment It is paid in as a tax by your Employer. Unless you own the company you dont pay a dime towards it.
Nevertheless, it is a short term benefit you have earned through years of work. And as economists (especially conservative ones) point out, employees pay for these benefits via decreased wages.
Few people would turn down a good job to keep collecting unemployment but they're not rushing out to work for minimum wage either. In either case, it's temporary. We did keep extending it during the financial crisis and I'm not sure I agreed with that but those extensions were temporary as well.
Everytime someone files a claim and gets it that Companies Rates go up. Which is why Most will fight it if the person was an POS employee.
Some POS companies also try to fabricate reasons to not allow their laid of employee to get unemployment. It happened to my father in law. He fought it and won easily.
SanJoaquinSooner
6/7/2013, 06:32 PM
Dear Jesus, I just don't know where to start to respond to this nonsense. Did you guys take your economics courses at one of those junior colleges with an 11% graduation rate?
1. Immigration reform will decrease the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. - not increase it. Reagan's act was NOT immigration reform. It did NOTHING to reform legal immigration nor did it reform non-immigrant worker visa programs. It was a stand-alone amnesty bill. The broken legal paths stayed broken. So when you bozos say "Reagan's bill failed to fix the problem" you are forgetting or apparently never knew that it never really tried to fix the problem.
2. Improving the pool of labor with more mobile and more competent workers does NOT rob U.S. citizens of jobs, rather, it increases economic activity with the creation of new businesses and the expansion of existing businesses. - thereby creating MORE jobs for citizens.
3. Some laid-off tech worker is not going to sell his house and move somewhere to accept a $12/hour job cleaning bed pans. And the drug addicts and oreo-binge-eating-daytime-TV-talk-show-watching-welfare-moms will quit that job before noon Tuesday.
4. Quit dreaming about the government telling employers who to hire. Business owners are the ones risking capital, so they should decide who to hire. The gov't should, instead, worry about how to make it easier for anyone to start their own business. The gov't should also get out of the welfare business. Let the Baptists, the Catholics and the atheist do-gooders do all that stuff.
olevetonahill
6/7/2013, 06:42 PM
Dear Jesus, I just don't know where to start to respond to this nonsense. Did you guys take your economics courses at one of those junior colleges with an 11% graduation rate?
1. Immigration reform will decrease the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. - not increase it. Reagan's act was NOT immigration reform. It did NOTHING to reform legal immigration nor did it reform non-immigrant worker visa programs. It was a stand-alone amnesty bill. The broken legal paths stayed broken. So when you bozos say "Reagan's bill failed to fix the problem" you are forgetting or apparently never knew that it never really tried to fix the problem.
2. Improving the pool of labor with more mobile and more competent workers does NOT rob U.S. citizens of jobs, rather, it increases economic activity with the creation of new businesses and the expansion of existing businesses. - thereby creating MORE jobs for citizens.
3. Some laid-off tech worker is not going to sell his house and move somewhere to accept a $12/hour job cleaning bed pans. And the drug addicts and oreo-binge-eating-daytime-TV-talk-show-watching-welfare-moms will quit that job before noon Tuesday.
4. Quit dreaming about the government telling employers who to hire. Business owners are the ones risking capital, so they should decide who to hire. The gov't should, instead, worry about how to make it easier for anyone to start their own business. The gov't should also get out of the welfare business. Let the Baptists, the Catholics and the atheist do-gooders do all that stuff.
Well we can agree on yer last sentence.
olevetonahill
6/7/2013, 06:44 PM
Oh and jaun? I guess I gotta agree with this also
1. Immigration reform will decrease the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. - not increase it.
Cause once they Legal they wont be Illegal anymore will they.
SanJoaquinSooner
6/7/2013, 10:47 PM
Well we can agree on yer last sentence.
Muy bueno!
SanJoaquinSooner
6/7/2013, 11:09 PM
Oh and jaun? I guess I gotta agree with this also
Cause once they Legal they wont be Illegal anymore will they. that's right vet. That seems lost on some folks.
olevetonahill
6/8/2013, 07:23 AM
that's right vet. That seems lost on some folks.
So then since we forgivin LAW breakers, Lets just open up the Prisons and Pardon em all, Then we wont have any more Convicts. heh this could get fun.
sappstuf
6/8/2013, 07:29 AM
So then since we forgivin LAW breakers, Lets just open up the Prisons and Pardon em all, Then we wont have any more Convicts. heh this could get fun.
Legalize what Bernie Madoff did and then you won't have any Bernie Madoffs running around... Brilliant!
cleller
6/8/2013, 07:35 AM
Muy bueno!
Is your avatar a photo of a woman strangling a big turtle?
IGotNoTiming
6/8/2013, 07:42 AM
New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
olevetonahill
6/8/2013, 07:49 AM
New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Sigh.
IGotNoTiming
6/8/2013, 08:51 AM
Heh....I'm like a bad rash....
SanJoaquinSooner
6/8/2013, 09:12 AM
Is your avatar a photo of a woman strangling a big turtle?
Mi esposa at the San Diego Zoo.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/poncaparker/MariaSanDiegoZoo2.jpg
olevetonahill
6/8/2013, 09:14 AM
Mi esposa at the San Diego Zoo.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/poncaparker/MariaSanDiegoZoo2.jpg
Heh, wonder what SHES thinkin. :glee:
Dear Jesus, I just don't know where to start to respond to this nonsense. Did you guys take your economics courses at one of those junior colleges with an 11% graduation rate?
Economics at a juco would make them a hell of a lot more educated than the 11,000,000 future welfare recipients.
Sooner Eclipse
6/8/2013, 11:04 AM
1. Immigration reform will decrease the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. - not increase it. Reagan's act was NOT immigration reform. It did NOTHING to reform legal immigration nor did it reform non-immigrant worker visa programs. It was a stand-alone amnesty bill. The broken legal paths stayed broken. So when you bozos say "Reagan's bill failed to fix the problem" you are forgetting or apparently never knew that it never really tried to fix the problem.
You do realize that the reason for this is because Tip O'Neil and the dems pulled the same **** they did all the time. "give us amnesty now and we'll pass reform later" or "give us tax increases now, and we'll pass tax reform later". The reason that the press bemoans the "gridlock" in Washington these days is that the people the repubs represent back home have seen this so many times they aren't buying it anymore and won't allow the repubs to sign off on it.
In this instance, the Rinos want to sign off on a bill that says we will allow amnesty as long as we are meeting certain metrics regarding border security. The problem is they will allow a dem administration to determine if we are meeting those metrics. Those determinations will be totally bogus but the press won't bother with reporting those facts. Its a variation on the Dems "Charlie Brown plan" above. This is the part the Rinos hope the great unwashed masses wont figure out for a few more decades.
Conservative are refusing to allow Lucy to pull the football out from under Charlie Brown again.
cleller
6/8/2013, 11:09 AM
Mi esposa at the San Diego Zoo.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/poncaparker/MariaSanDiegoZoo2.jpg
That's what I thought. I don't have a very big monitor, so some of these avatars drive me nuts.
That's pretty neat. Surprised they let you that close. Guess turtles live long enough they're not too worried about them.
sappstuf
6/8/2013, 11:16 AM
That picture reminds me.. What would happen if Aggies lived close to the ocean?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--nz1Yw6y_uo/Tqqvf2jfbtI/AAAAAAAABdo/uM88qUb72Ig/s1600/turtle+rider.jpg
SanJoaquinSooner
6/8/2013, 12:17 PM
That's what I thought. I don't have a very big monitor, so some of these avatars drive me nuts.
That's pretty neat. Surprised they let you that close. Guess turtles live long enough they're not too worried about them.got it fenced now. Off to big D today for a wedding! Flying out of sfo.
SanJoaquinSooner
6/9/2013, 12:24 AM
You do realize that the reason for this is because Tip O'Neil and the dems pulled the same **** they did all the time. "give us amnesty now and we'll pass reform later" or "give us tax increases now, and we'll pass tax reform later". The reason that the press bemoans the "gridlock" in Washington these days is that the people the repubs represent back home have seen this so many times they aren't buying it anymore and won't allow the repubs to sign off on it.
In this instance, the Rinos want to sign off on a bill that says we will allow amnesty as long as we are meeting certain metrics regarding border security. The problem is they will allow a dem administration to determine if we are meeting those metrics. Those determinations will be totally bogus but the press won't bother with reporting those facts. Its a variation on the Dems "Charlie Brown plan" above. This is the part the Rinos hope the great unwashed masses wont figure out for a few more decades.
Conservative are refusing to allow Lucy to pull the football out from under Charlie Brown again.
In ten years, the donks may not have the white house, which is the length of the blue card legal limbo. And Reagan complaining to the choir about tip's broken promises ... I don't think Reagan was naive.
cleller
6/9/2013, 08:37 AM
I saw somewhere a piece mentioning that Reagan came along and was able to lure the Archie Bunker type working Americans away from the long term Dems because they realized the Dems no longer represented what they wanted to hear.
Somehow that focus on "bringing together" has been lost, which is what bugs me today so much. Everything is kow-towing to this group or that group. Reagan could appeal to working people that wanted to do their job, keep their money, and quit arguing. Let the other things work themselves out.
Now you've got social issues running the dialogue, with people wanting to preserve their gov benefits.
Reagan and Tip were both seasoned me that could admit giving ground here and there might be best for everyone.
In ten years, the donks may not have the white house, which is the length of the blue card legal limbo. And Reagan complaining to the choir about tip's broken promises ... I don't think Reagan was naive.
The pubs could have another W in the white house too and that would almost be as bad as Obama on illegal immigration
Sooner Eclipse
6/9/2013, 09:33 AM
In ten years, the donks may not have the white house, which is the length of the blue card legal limbo. And Reagan complaining to the choir about tip's broken promises ... I don't think Reagan was naive.
That's not what you said. You said Reagan didn't try. He did. He got F'd over on the other part of the legislation by the dims. 10 more years of this **** and we will be overrun with 3rd world latinos.
IGotNoTiming
6/9/2013, 10:01 AM
I am curious if we cut off the illegals.... how many businesses would suffer consequences of cutting back because they can't fill those positions... there are a lot of jobs that these folks will do that others won't touch.
I am not advocating for any side on this issue... I haven't 100% made up my mind
Sooner Eclipse
6/9/2013, 10:16 AM
I am curious if we cut off the illegals.... how many businesses would suffer consequences of cutting back because they can't fill those positions... there are a lot of jobs that these folks will do that others won't touch.
I am not advocating for any side on this issue... I haven't 100% made up my mind
The businesses would raise their wages or go out of business. Those that dont have any unemployment left will take them. A lot of the jobs the illegals have is because they undercut americans. Home construction makes up a large amount. They came for the field jobs but out of season, rather than go home, they take construction jobs at a lower rate than americans.
IGotNoTiming
6/9/2013, 12:02 PM
The businesses would raise their wages or go out of business. Those that dont have any unemployment left will take them. A lot of the jobs the illegals have is because they undercut americans. Home construction makes up a large amount. They came for the field jobs but out of season, rather than go home, they take construction jobs at a lower rate than americans.
Would you hire an illegal crew to work on your house if they came in 20% lower on a bid, showed up on time and finished before they said the job would be done? It is coming directly out of your pocket and they have glowing reviews on their quality of work.
Just asking.
why don't they go home, is it because they can find jobs, or because of how hard it is to go back and forth?
olevetonahill
6/9/2013, 12:44 PM
I am curious if we cut off the illegals.... how many businesses would suffer consequences of cutting back because they can't fill those positions... there are a lot of jobs that these folks will do that others won't touch.
I am not advocating for any side on this issue... I haven't 100% made up my mind
Ive said this forever, Stopping the Illegals and removing them will Not work worth a shat unless we also do a Corresponding Cut/Stoppage of Social welfare and force these Lazy ****ers to go out an work.
And save it that folks wont NOT work because they dont get Much Benefits The Lazy ****s Live off their Baby Mommas welfare.
SanJoaquinSooner
6/9/2013, 02:17 PM
why don't they go home, is it because they can find jobs, or because of how hard it is to go back and forth?
Correct. Circular migration was destroyed.
Ive said this forever, Stopping the Illegals and removing them will Not work worth a shat unless we also do a Corresponding Cut/Stoppage of Social welfare and force these Lazy ****ers to go out an work.
And save it that folks wont NOT work because they dont get Much Benefits The Lazy ****s Live off their Baby Mommas welfare.
i think you need to step back and define "social welfare"
which social safety nets in particular are you so offended by?
olevetonahill
6/9/2013, 02:54 PM
i think you need to step back and define "social welfare"
which social safety nets in particular are you so offended by?
Those given to those who are too ****in Lazy to TAKE a job beneath them. Or for that matter ANY job.
Are you gonna Pull a South Carolina Sooner on me?
Cause If so next time we meet up I will show you the ****in SCARS ok?
so disability? food stamps? unemployment? social security?
hell, even people working at Walmart need some of these things to get by.
IGotNoTiming
6/9/2013, 03:04 PM
Those given to those who are too ****in Lazy to TAKE a job beneath them. Or for that matter ANY job.
Are you gonna Pull a South Carolina Sooner on me?
Cause If so next time we meet up I will show you the ****in SCARS ok?
I think yermom posed a pretty good question... which social programs are you referring to?
olevetonahill
6/9/2013, 03:09 PM
I think yermom posed a pretty good question... which social programs are you referring to?
And I ****in ANSWERED HIM Pay Tention.
I'm still confused which ones really have anything to do with what we are talking about
olevetonahill
6/9/2013, 03:49 PM
Ive said this forever, Stopping the Illegals and removing them will Not work worth a shat unless we also do a Corresponding Cut/Stoppage of Social welfare and force these Lazy ****ers to go out an work.
And save it that folks wont NOT work because they dont get Much Benefits The Lazy ****s Live off their Baby Mommas welfare.
I'm still confused which ones really have anything to do with what we are talking about
Dave , IMHO its simple. WE Need these Illegals to do Jobs that Our citizens WONT do because the Govt. Takes so good care of em. Stopping the Hand outs will force these people that are able, to get to work.
Do you not realize that the Mexicans that come here and willingly do these jobs do so because there is No work at all and NO WELFARE for them in Mexico. They come because they have very little choice in the matter. Its Not like they grow up Dreaming of being a Migrant worker or some ones cleanin lady . The Choose to survive.
Why i say remove the safety nets from those who Arnt willin to work and they will Do so.
IGotNoTiming
6/9/2013, 03:55 PM
paddle faster I hear banjos
olevetonahill
6/9/2013, 04:01 PM
paddle faster I hear banjos
http://www.olevetpossehideout.com/forums/images/smilies/fuk2.jpg
Dave , IMHO its simple. WE Need these Illegals to do Jobs that Our citizens WONT do because the Govt. Takes so good care of em. Stopping the Hand outs will force these people that are able, to get to work.
Do you not realize that the Mexicans that come here and willingly do these jobs do so because there is No work at all and NO WELFARE for them in Mexico. They come because they have very little choice in the matter. Its Not like they grow up Dreaming of being a Migrant worker or some ones cleanin lady . The Choose to survive.
Why i say remove the safety nets from those who Arnt willin to work and they will Do so.
this only works up to a point. the young, able bodied people that wouldn't do those jobs aren't really getting welfare.
i think you end up just putting a bunch of kids on the street with no food
Sooner Eclipse
6/9/2013, 09:17 PM
Would you hire an illegal crew to work on your house if they came in 20% lower on a bid, showed up on time and finished before they said the job would be done? It is coming directly out of your pocket and they have glowing reviews on their quality of work.
Just asking. Not knowingly, no.
olevetonahill
6/9/2013, 09:27 PM
Not knowingly, no.
Agreed, For one thing they may not be around If ICE gathers em up when and or If you need any warranty work done. Another contractor will LOL at ya and charge you the original price just to fix sompun.
sappstuf
6/14/2013, 12:58 PM
http://c10.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/styles/homepage_slideshow/public/uploaded/pic_photoshop_061313_new_A.jpg?itok=qktfdiHo
this only works up to a point. the young, able bodied people that wouldn't do those jobs aren't really getting welfare.
i think you end up just putting a bunch of kids on the street with no food
Vet was probably talking about the guy down the street from me that is on "disability", who mows his own yard, loads crap in his pickup to haul off, has moved his (unwed) daughter - comprende?
okie52
6/14/2013, 03:30 PM
http://c10.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/styles/homepage_slideshow/public/uploaded/pic_photoshop_061313_new_A.jpg?itok=qktfdiHo
Heh...
SanJoaquinSooner
6/14/2013, 03:51 PM
That's not what you said. You said Reagan didn't try. He did. He got F'd over on the other part of the legislation by the dims. 10 more years of this **** and we will be overrun with 3rd world latinos.
Let's see what Reagan said here
6gYHMwEdvIk
okie52
6/14/2013, 04:23 PM
Ronald Reagan’s Biggest Mistake – According to Reagan Himself
HarrisonBergeron2
Posted under Immigration
by Mike Scruggs
According to Ronald Reagan himself, as told to his trusted long-time friend and U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese, the biggest mistake of his presidency was signing the l986 amnesty for what turned out to be more than half the five million illegal immigrants in the country. Reagan was uncomfortable with the amnesty but was persuaded by some of the leaders of his own party (still living) that it would only affect a small number of illegal immigrants and would assure that Congress would follow through with more vigorous enforcement of U.S. immigration laws. The misnamed Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 was touted by its supporters as “comprehensive immigration reform” that would grant amnesty only to a few long-settled immigrants and strengthen border security and internal immigration enforcement against employers who were hiring illegal immigrants.
http://conservativetimes.org/?p=10638
SanJoaquinSooner
6/14/2013, 04:56 PM
http://conservativetimes.org/?p=10638
The editors, mis-titled the article. That's not according to Libertarian Reagan himself, it's according to cultural conservative Ed Meese.
Reagan was NOT for a fence across the border, but for employment verification and guest worker visas. That is how he envisioned controlling the border. The I-9 employment verification become law, but the guest worker visa reform never did.
okie52
6/14/2013, 06:43 PM
Libertarian Ronnie?
Meese just merely recounted how embarrassed libertarian Reagan was about his horrible mistake on all of those illiterate bastards he granted citizenship...Hes probably turning over in his grave seeing how his well intentioned mistake has devastated California.
yermom
6/14/2013, 07:19 PM
Vet was probably talking about the guy down the street from me that is on "disability", who mows his own yard, loads crap in his pickup to haul off, has moved his (unwed) daughter - comprende?
so either we are talking about fraud, or maybe you don't know the whole story.
so what is your solution? no one gets "disability"?
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