View Full Version : Here ya go, Yall discuss this.
olevetonahill
2/28/2013, 02:28 PM
Is the skool right or wrong? is the the little kid a Boy or a Girl?
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/transgender-girl-s-parents-sue-for-her-right-to-use-the-bathroom-201415013.html
yermom
2/28/2013, 02:51 PM
the binary paradigm of gender isn't exactly correct. i'm not sure really how to deal with that in a lot of settings.
the Asians seem to handle it better than westerners.
just imagine the reverse. you have an anatomical boy passing for a girl walking into a boy's bathroom. it's seems you are begging for trouble at that point.
to me, it seems like you should just give everyone access to a private unisex bathroom if they want it.
olevetonahill
2/28/2013, 02:54 PM
the binary paradigm of gender isn't exactly correct. i'm not sure really how to deal with that in a lot of settings.
the Asians seem to handle it better than westerners.
just imagine the reverse. you have an anatomical boy passing for a girl walking into a boy's bathroom. it's seems you are begging for trouble at that point.
to me, it seems like you should just give everyone access to a private unisex bathroom if they want it.
At 6 years old?
cleller
2/28/2013, 02:57 PM
Let er go in the boys, they won't care.
KantoSooner
2/28/2013, 03:01 PM
At 6 years old?
Seemed a bit odd to me, too, but I'd probably go for the unisex bathroom thing if I as an administrator was convinced that it was really the kid and not the parents trying to make a political point. If it is the kid, he/she is going to have a rough enough next 15 years or so anyway. I don't need to contribute.
yermom
2/28/2013, 03:03 PM
At 6 years old?
it's not like this is some conscious decision one makes as an adult. in most cases, my understanding is that it starts younger than six.
yermom
2/28/2013, 03:05 PM
Let er go in the boys, they won't care.
do all of the students know the situation? should they have to?
olevetonahill
2/28/2013, 03:08 PM
do all of the students know the situation? should they have to?
I aint taking sides in this But a thot comes to mind.
If you have a 6 year old girl would you want a 6 year old boy going in the same restroom with her?What about when they are teen agers and the "Girl" needs to Pee in a hurry and just whoops it out?
cleller
2/28/2013, 03:08 PM
From a practical standpoint, unisex bathrooms aren't going to be available in most schools. So, if the person has a penis, it should go in the boys. If the person is somewhere in between:
Stands to pee: boys
Very masculine: boys
must sit to pee and also feminine: girls
Ugh. I misread the story and thought the kid was kinda ambiguous in equipment. Guess not, just a boy that wants to be a girl. What a can of worms. In reality, most girls wouldn't go nuts if the girlie-boy (not meant as an insult) went to the bathroom with them, but no way will all the parents swallow that reasoning.
Tell mom to quit screeching and let the kid either go in the nurses office or practice iron kidney.
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 03:18 PM
If someone would dress the boy right, and give him a stick and ball, and make him go outside and play, he might be fixed.
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 03:18 PM
The parents are to blame for obviously raising him as a girl.
yermom
2/28/2013, 03:34 PM
have you done any research at all into gender?
gender identity is a pretty complex issue and is independent of anatomy, chromosomes and sexual preference.
every fetus starts out female and only through hormones develops physical changes. if something goes strangely in the process, weird things happen. you can't just train the brain to think something else, it can go pretty badly.
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 03:38 PM
At his age, mom and dad are the ones who decided to clothe him in dresses and give him that cute purple hair-doo. Of course he identifies himself as a girl. That's all he's been raised as.
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 03:43 PM
I'd go so far as to say the parents have abused this little boy.
Turd_Ferguson
2/28/2013, 03:43 PM
The parents should have their teeth kicked in...
yermom
2/28/2013, 04:19 PM
yeah, i'm sure every parent everywhere in this situation chose to be in it
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 04:21 PM
And I'm sure that little boy went out and bought his own dresses, and got his hair done up all by himself.
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 04:24 PM
This situation is a spin on munchausen by proxy.
yermom
2/28/2013, 04:46 PM
did you bother even reading the article?
FaninAma
2/28/2013, 04:48 PM
The parents have insured this child will have a very difficult time by making it an issue so early in the child's life. I suspect they have projected their own wishes and expectations onto the kid. I think the parents are full of crap about what this kid told them at age 4. Kids that age have very little gender bias or concerns. This all came from the parents and a "psychologist" with an agenda.
yermom
2/28/2013, 04:58 PM
i can't be the only person that's seen this before. i mean you are a pediatrician, aren't you? really, you are going the ignorant route?
it's funny how this kinda stuff seems to go right down party lines.
sooner_born_1960
2/28/2013, 04:58 PM
Yes, it looks like there is a doctor that needs a good ***-whoopin' too.
FaninAma
2/28/2013, 05:13 PM
i can't be the only person that's seen this before. i mean you are a pediatrician, aren't you? really, you are going the ignorant route?
it's funny how this kinda stuff seems to go right down party lines.
You're the one that doesn't want to go down that route and you really need to draw your catty little claws back in. The average 4 year old has very little gender concerns. I have lots of parents come in all concerned because their son wants his toenails painted like mom's or dresses up in their sister's clothes. It's called curiosity and the only times I have seen it turn into a problem is when the parent become obssessed about it and reinforces the behavior.
You have zero insight into this situation.
yermom
2/28/2013, 05:19 PM
You're the one that doesn't want to go down that route and you really need to draw your catty little claws back in. The average 4 year old has very little gender concerns. I have lots of parents come in all concerned because their son wants his toenails painted like mom's or dresses up in their sister's clothes. It's called curiosity and the only times I have seen it turn into a problem is when the parent become obssessed about it and reinforces the behavior.
You have zero insight into this situation.
curiosity and gender roles is one thing, identity is another.
while i haven't dealt with it personally, i wouldn't say i have zero insight.
i do know that by 3, if not sooner, i was firmly entrenched as a straight male, and wouldn't have stood for wearing dresses.
XingTheRubicon
2/28/2013, 05:48 PM
you wore dresses when you were 2?
okie52
2/28/2013, 05:50 PM
curiosity and gender roles is one thing, identity is another.
while i haven't dealt with it personally, i wouldn't say i have zero insight.
i do know that by 3, if not sooner, i was firmly entrenched as a straight male, and wouldn't have stood for wearing dresses.
How's that? Are you remembering your first hard on?
Midtowner
2/28/2013, 06:27 PM
Gender Identity Disorder is a diagnosis listed in the DSM IV and will continue to be in the DSM V, but listed as gender dysphoria. It'd be my position that so long as the kid was diagnosed and this was a disorder which would affect the child's ability to learn and she needed additional services, that the school would need to develop an IEP and figure out under the circumstances what the least restrictive environment would be. I don't think it's a one size fits all sort of proposition either. Different schools will have different abilities to accommodate things and kids are going to vary on the sorts of accommodations they're asking for.
This is obviously not a very common problem and in my experience, most of the time, it's not a huge fight to get a kid on an IEP and some schools are awesome about some of the services they offer. In some cases, all it takes is the threat of a lawsuit to get the administrators to come around.
FaninAma
2/28/2013, 06:41 PM
Most kisds are pretty flexible about gender behavior up until they get a lot of exposure to age appropriate peers groups in early elementary grades. The line between traditional boy and girl roles is being blurred even more by parents involving their children in extra-curricular activities at earlier and earlier ages such as sports participation by girls and involvement by boys in traditionally feminine activities like dance and the arts.
I certainly think actively pushing a 4 year old toward a transgender assignment was a mistake. The fact that they are now trying to make an issue out of it and refusing to accept the solution offered by the school and take the fight public tells me they have an agenda. If they were truly worried about the stress being inflicted on a 6 year old they wouldn't put the kid out in the public spotlight and allow him to be the target of ridicule and subject of curiosity by strangers. Is the ridicule right......of course not but it was expected and as a parent I would never have put my child in that position.
You can disagree with me all you want but I guarantee you my recommendations for the child would be based on what I truly felt would keep him from the stress and negative attention he is receiving now because his parents chose to take the issue public.
The parents should have taken a neutral approach. Starting school and making the social transitions of being more independent and away from constant parenteral or caretaker contact is stressful enough. Making this kid deal publically with this issue on top of the regular adjustment issues is, IMO, irresponsible and poor parenting.
I am not questioning that some children will become transgender and I am not condemning that. I am condemning how the parents chose to handle this at such a young age as well as any role the psychologist played in putting this kid on public display.
yermom
2/28/2013, 06:42 PM
you wore dresses when you were 2?
i said if not sooner...
How's that? Are you remembering your first hard on?
i remember liking girls back then. i knew i liked girls, and i knew i was a boy.
Turd_Ferguson
2/28/2013, 06:58 PM
i said if not sooner...
i remember liking girls back then. i knew i liked girls, and i knew i was a boy.
Don't you drive a Subaru with a whale tail and a fart can?
ouwasp
2/28/2013, 08:39 PM
Very bizarre...too bad a school is put in this situation. Like our schools don't have enough crap to deal with on a daily basis. I'd like to think maybe some sort of counseling could unscramble the child's mind... but in this day and age we're supposed to put on the happy smile and embrace diversity.
StoopTroup
2/28/2013, 09:29 PM
to me, it seems like you should just give everyone access to a private unisex bathroom if they want it.
Bingo. When I was traveling with my kids and I didn't want to let them out of my sight....I couldn't very well take my Daughter into the Mens with me so I was so glad they had family Restrooms where I could go with her and take care of business w/o having to worry about my child getting nabbed or our luggage if I had to leave it with her/them.
As more Men become the ones to take care of the kids I think Family or Unisex facilities as you said are a great solution. It's to bad that the school didn't think of these problems when the Schools were built but I just don't see any reason for them to not spend some money updating facilities to provide for kids/families who might need this type of privacy.
I think Society was the one that changed from unisex to men and women in the first place so the argument about parents not handling this situation before the kid went to school is really only because America got rid of Unisex bathrooms when Outhouse ****ters were replaced with indoor highfalutin plumbin' :D
olevetonahill
3/1/2013, 01:05 AM
So the answer to this Whole deal is just make all restrooms Unisex? Ya got to be ****tin me.
Soonerjeepman
3/1/2013, 01:25 AM
The parents have insured this child will have a very difficult time by making it an issue so early in the child's life. I suspect they have projected their own wishes and expectations onto the kid. I think the parents are full of crap about what this kid told them at age 4. Kids that age have very little gender bias or concerns. This all came from the parents and a "psychologist" with an agenda.
yup
olevetonahill
3/1/2013, 01:29 AM
yup
Agreed Bro
I know a family with a Teenage daughter , when her little Brother was born She would play dress up with him, Paint his nails and all tht **** when he was about 5 he started the PreK school or whatever and that was the end of that ****.
Guess is his Rents had started tellin him he was a girl and forcing him to act like one then he would be a ****ed up kid now, Instead now at the age of 12 he will kick yer *** or go down tryin if ya ever question his Masculinity
So the answer to this Whole deal is just make all restrooms Unisex? Ya got to be ****tin me.
i said have some unisex bathrooms. like ST said, there are "family" restrooms in some malls and stuff in addition to the regular ones.
i don't really think expecting everyone to be okay with a boy in a dress in the girls room is realistic, but neither is having that person in the boys room.
Most kisds are pretty flexible about gender behavior up until they get a lot of exposure to age appropriate peers groups in early elementary grades. The line between traditional boy and girl roles is being blurred even more by parents involving their children in extra-curricular activities at earlier and earlier ages such as sports participation by girls and involvement by boys in traditionally feminine activities like dance and the arts.
I certainly think actively pushing a 4 year old toward a transgender assignment was a mistake. The fact that they are now trying to make an issue out of it and refusing to accept the solution offered by the school and take the fight public tells me they have an agenda. If they were truly worried about the stress being inflicted on a 6 year old they wouldn't put the kid out in the public spotlight and allow him to be the target of ridicule and subject of curiosity by strangers. Is the ridicule right......of course not but it was expected and as a parent I would never have put my child in that position.
You can disagree with me all you want but I guarantee you my recommendations for the child would be based on what I truly felt would keep him from the stress and negative attention he is receiving now because his parents chose to take the issue public.
The parents should have taken a neutral approach. Starting school and making the social transitions of being more independent and away from constant parenteral or caretaker contact is stressful enough. Making this kid deal publically with this issue on top of the regular adjustment issues is, IMO, irresponsible and poor parenting.
I am not questioning that some children will become transgender and I am not condemning that. I am condemning how the parents chose to handle this at such a young age as well as any role the psychologist played in putting this kid on public display.
it doesn't sound like they are pushing the 6 year old into anything.
would you rather they force him to play dress up as a boy identity that he doesn't feel is right and repress it until he's married with a few kids and started a career and then make the transition?
Don't you drive a Subaru with a whale tail and a fart can?
i'm not the least bit embarrassed by my Subaru. you might be if we raced though ;)
i said have some unisex bathrooms. like ST said, there are "family" restrooms in some malls and stuff in addition to the regular ones.
i don't really think expecting everyone to be okay with a boy in a dress in the girls room is realistic, but neither is having that person in the boys room.
You could have "it" bathrooms but that isn't going to make the trannies happy. Are you going to have "it" sports leagues too?
Turd_Ferguson
3/1/2013, 07:29 AM
I still say, if ya have a peener go to the boy's. If ya have a jj go to the girls. If ya have both, pick ur poison...
olevetonahill
3/1/2013, 08:35 AM
I still say, if ya have a peener go to the boy's. If ya have a jj go to the girls. If ya have both, pick ur poison...
The real issue IMHO is this BOYs parents raising him as a girl and ****in up his head, Then trying to FORCE the school to go along with their Crazy asses.
Turd_Ferguson
3/1/2013, 09:00 AM
The real issue IMHO is this BOYs parents raising him as a girl and ****in up his head, Then trying to FORCE the school to go along with their Crazy asses.
Oh, I'm witcha...hence the reason I said the parents need their teeth kicked in.
FaninAma
3/1/2013, 10:54 AM
it doesn't sound like they are pushing the 6 year old into anything.
would you rather they force him to play dress up as a boy identity that he doesn't feel is right and repress it until he's married with a few kids and started a career and then make the transition?
Yes they are. 4 to 6 year olds just do not make decisions like that on their own without reinforcement from the parents. The parents should have chosen gender neutral clothes, allowed the child to choose the creative activities he prefers and supported him. I suspect this kid has a domineering mother and a very passive father with some gender issues himself. It is highly unusual for prepubertal children to be interested in gender roles and assignments except for those set by example within the family and early peer groups.
I honestly see the reverse situation a lot more. Big jock dads that push their girls to play sports and even dress their girls like boys. They usually don't go to the extreme that this family did but the behavior ususally persists into puberty once it has been reinforced for a few years. There is no doubt in my mind that a parent can make their child transgender through behavioral reinforcement prior to puberty.
Before puberty environment dominates in terms of gender role preference. After puberty I do feel that there are some kids who may be hard-wired to gravitate toward the opposite gender or homosexuality. My opinion is based on observation of a lot of family dynamics and watching kids progress through various developmental stages from birth to age 21.
I am all for offering a gender neutral environment for kids in the schools and allowing the kid to pick his or her own activites. In this case I don't think the parents did that. I think they were very proactive in pushing this child toward a transgender role based on their own misconceptions.
The real issue IMHO is this BOYs parents raising him as a girl and ****in up his head, Then trying to FORCE the school to go along with their Crazy asses.
This.
4 & 5 year old kids are wearing the clothes their parents lay out for them. Little boys can play with dolls and little girls can play army. No big ****ing deal at 4 & 5 years old or even older.
StoopTroup
3/1/2013, 11:14 AM
Put a Port a john in for him.
olevetonahill
3/1/2013, 11:17 AM
Put a Port a john in for him.
Heh.
You could have "it" bathrooms but that isn't going to make the trannies happy. Are you going to have "it" sports leagues too?
i have no idea how to handle sports. girls sports are there so that they can compete. i can see letting a girl compete against boys, but boys against girls doesn't really seem fair. throw in hormone treatments and that makes it even worse.
i have no idea how to handle sports. girls sports are there so that they can compete. i can see letting a girl compete against boys, but boys against girls doesn't really seem fair. throw in hormone treatments and that makes it even worse.
Afraid Massachusetts has already declared that the tranny can determine whether he/she/it wants to play in the girls or boys leagues. Girl to boy league will get killed but boy to girl league will often dominate the league.
Put a Port a john in for him.
LOL.
cleller
3/1/2013, 06:11 PM
In the story, the parents, their psychologist, the author all call the child a girl, refer to the child as "she", say the child wants to go to the bathroom "with the other girls".
The child is not a girl. Its a boy.
No one is trying to stop their brain game with the kid, and they offered them a perfectly acceptably solution to their self imposed bathroom problem. Its ridiculous and indulgent.
I just realized that on the inside, I am really an NFL player, yet because of nature's cruel twists, I was never able to realize NFL glory and millions of dollars. Surely I deserve something. Someone needs to be told to let me in the NFL, otherwise I'll be incomplete and discriminated against.
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