Things are changin'...

[8timechamps]

Take a look at the coaching staff from 2010:

Head Coach: Bob Stoops
Offensive Coordinator:Kevin Wilson
Defensive Coordinator: Brent Venebals
Defensive Backs: Bobby Jack Wright
Wide Receivers: Jay Norvell
Running Backs: Cale Gundy
Offensive Line: James Patton
Quarterbacks: Josh Huepel
Defensive Backs: Willie Martinez
Defensive Line: Jackie Shipp

Here's the current staff for 2013:

Head Coach: Bob Stoops
Offensive Coordinator/Wide Recievers: Jay Norvell
Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks: Josh Huepel
Defensive Coordinator: Mike Stoops
Linebackers: Tim Kish
Defensive Backs: Bobby Jack Wright*
Defensive Line: Jerry Montgomery
Offensive Line: Bill Bedenbaugh
Tight Ends/Fullbacks: ?

*Coach Wright currently coaches defensive ends, but is rumored to be movig back to DBs.

Only 5 of the 10 coaches from 2009 will be on the Sooners staff to open the 2013 season; Stoops, Norvell, Huepel, Gundy and Wright.

Personally, I think Bob was motivated to make the changes by three things:

1. Desire to win it all - contrary to what some here believe, I don't think Bob has ever been satisfied with just winning 10 games. I think this is still the #1 reason why he continues to coach.
2. Texas - Anyone that has paid attention has watched Texas slowly become stagnant. Stoops has had a front row seat, and surely it's gotten his attention.
3. Pressure - HCBS would have to be in complete isolation in order to avoid the fan rumblings. I'm sure this has had some (and it could be very small) part in his actions.

[goingoneight]

Take a look at the coaching staff from 2010:

Head Coach: Bob Stoops
Offensive Coordinator: Brent Venebals
Defensive Coordinator: Kevin Wilson
Defensive Backs: Bobby Jack Wright
Wide Receivers: Jay Norvell
Running Backs: Cale Gundy
Offensive Line: James Patton
Quarterbacks: Josh Huepel
Defensive Backs: Willie Martinez
Defensive Line: Jackie Shipp

Here's the current staff for 2013:

Head Coach: Bob Stoops
Offensive Coordinator/Wide Recievers: Jay Norvell
Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks: Josh Heupel
Defensive Coordinator: Mike Stoops
Linebackers: Tim Kish
Defensive Backs: Bobby Jack Wright*
Defensive Line: Jerry Montgomery
Offensive Line: Bill Bedenbaugh
Tight Ends/Fullbacks: ?

*Coach Wright currently coaches defensive ends, but is rumored to be movig back to DBs.

Only 5 of the 10 coaches from 2009 will be on the Sooners staff to open the 2013 season; Stoops, Norvell, Huepel, Gundy and Wright.

Personally, I think Bob was motivated to make the changes by three things:

1. Desire to win it all - contrary to what some here believe, I don't think Bob has ever been satisfied with just winning 10 games. I think this is still the #1 reason why he continues to coach.
2. Texas - Anyone that has paid attention has watched Texas slowly become stagnant. Stoops has had a front row seat, and surely it's gotten his attention.
3. Pressure - HCBS would have to be in complete isolation in order to avoid the fan rumblings. I'm sure this has had some (and it could be very small) part in his actions.

I'd add that 2012 was probably a contract year for the guys who were dismissed. Given the fact that we were good, but not great and got bullied by the only good teams we played and then got smoked on the recruiting trail... I'd bet Bob would have even fired his own mother for that if he takes his job seriously. And he does, for the record. Even though 10-3 is awful in a lot of peoples' eyes, it gets a hell of a lot worse if the guy in charge doesn't care or know what he's doing. See: 1990-1998.

Fan rumblings are just a part of the job. I'll bet you if Saban goes three years without winning it all at Bama that some of their fans (not the reasonable ones) will start to grunt and light their torches. We've been great under Stoops and just needed to make a move going forward. Shipp, Kittle and Patton were only providing us with average, thin depth charts that had tendencies to **** the bed. It could actually get worse... but the bottom line is Bob could no longer stick up for them. The A&M game exposed it for all the world to see. There was no denying the state of the program and the locker room after that 2nd half in Arlington. It's still shocking which team was the Aggies and which team called themselves Sooners in that mess.

[8timechamps]

I'd add that 2012 was probably a contract year for the guys who were dismissed. Given the fact that we were good, but not great and got bullied by the only good teams we played and then got smoked on the recruiting trail... I'd bet Bob would have even fired his own mother for that if he takes his job seriously. And he does, for the record. Even though 10-3 is awful in a lot of peoples' eyes, it gets a hell of a lot worse if the guy in charge doesn't care or know what he's doing. See: 1990-1998.

Fan rumblings are just a part of the job. I'll bet you if Saban goes three years without winning it all at Bama that some of their fans (not the reasonable ones) will start to grunt and light their torches. We've been great under Stoops and just needed to make a move going forward. Shipp, Kittle and Patton were only providing us with average, thin depth charts that had tendencies to **** the bed. It could actually get worse... but the bottom line is Bob could no longer stick up for them. The A&M game exposed it for all the world to see. There was no denying the state of the program and the locker room after that 2nd half in Arlington. It's still shocking which team was the Aggies and which team called themselves Sooners in that mess.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Stoops was highly motivated by fan rumblings, only that I'm sure there was some pressure on him at the end of the year that he hadn't felt in a while, or ever, at OU.

I really, really like the new hires.

[StoopTroup]

Venables was OC? Wilson was DC?

[goingoneight]

8TC:

I agree. I don't think Bob had any sitdowns with Boren or Castiglione... but he is well aware of what has been happening and the fact that it finally caught up to his program. Personally, I saw it in his eyes and mannerisms during the season whenever he was interviewed. He couldn't just bag on anybody when people were questioning Wort and Nelson after the KSU game. The team will quit on you if you throw them under the bus. Think back to Mack Brown's presser where he threw his coaches under the bus after the ISU game in 2010. They didn't win another game and were thoroughly embarassed in a few of them after that. They would have had no steam at all to run through the rest of the BIG 12 schedule like they did as well as finish the exciting wins they had if Bob just cut guys down left and right in the pressers.

[Mazeppa]

Venables was OC? Wilson was DC?



Who knew?

[goingoneight]

That makes us fans even stupider. We were all over Venables for the bad defense and Wilson for the playcalling!

[stoopified]

That makes us fans even stupider. ! That is exactly why I(over the course of the last 20 years or so of my 44 years as a fan) learned to relax and just my coaches in terms of staff,player , and strategic decisions. I figure IF I knew more about coaching than Bob,I would be the HC at OU and Bob would be at Iowa(or by now ND,TOSU,UF after starting asIowa HC).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think the one thing to remember is that Bob doesn't evaluate coaches game to game, he evaluates them after a season. This causes a huge delay in when things begin to be a problem and when they are addressed.

Some examples:
Coach has a good year coaching (but crap year evaluating talent) - He gets an A since the kids he is evaluating aren't even on campus to be judged yet
Coach has a good year coaching and another crap year evaluating talent - He gets an A again since most of the kids are probably redshirting
Coach has a good year coaching and yet another crap year evaluating talent - He gets a C since the guys are starting to be expected to be starters and they either are leaving or aren't very good. He gets warned to get better at evaluating talent. The problem is how many years do you give him to "get better" since it takes 2 years to see if he does.

These are the exact scenarios we saw from Shipp and BV.

[8timechamps]

Alright ****heads, I fixed it.

[8timechamps]

8TC:

I agree. I don't think Bob had any sitdowns with Boren or Castiglione... but he is well aware of what has been happening and the fact that it finally caught up to his program. Personally, I saw it in his eyes and mannerisms during the season whenever he was interviewed. He couldn't just bag on anybody when people were questioning Wort and Nelson after the KSU game. The team will quit on you if you throw them under the bus. Think back to Mack Brown's presser where he threw his coaches under the bus after the ISU game in 2010. They didn't win another game and were thoroughly embarassed in a few of them after that. They would have had no steam at all to run through the rest of the BIG 12 schedule like they did as well as finish the exciting wins they had if Bob just cut guys down left and right in the pressers.

That's why I included Texas as one of the motivators. Mack Brown has written the guide about how not to deal with a struggling team. What's going in with Texas could certainly have happened anywhere, Oklahoma included.

I like both of the new hires, but Montgomery is the one that excites me most.

[Midtowner]

vCWdCKPtnYE

[ashley]

Wright will coach the corners and all special teams while Stoops coaches the safeties. He has been doing special teams. The movement is because teams have been going to two secondary caoches due to the spread formation.

[MyT Oklahoma]

That's why I included Texas as one of the motivators. Mack Brown has written the guide about how not to deal with a struggling team. What's going in with Texas could certainly have happened anywhere, Oklahoma included.

I like both of the new hires, but Montgomery is the one that excites me most.

Shhhhhhhh.... Mack Brown walks on water. Drink the Kool Aid and sing it with me.... Mack Brown walks on water.

P.S. Please.. please.. please.. please Dear Lord.. please never let anything happen to Mack Brown. :cocksure:

[thecrimsoncrusader]

That makes us fans even stupider. We were all over Venables for the bad defense and Wilson for the playcalling!

Just imagine Brent Venables without Travis Lewis, Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis in the 2012 season at Oklahoma. Yeah, yet another loss to Texas Tech in Lubbock and OU probably loses to both Baylor and OSU in Norman if he was still around. Effectively getting rid of Venables was the right move. Mike Stoops fixed OU's pass defense and the rushing defense will get fixed when OU isn't fielding their worst front four in decades, which was strictly due to talent or lack thereof.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Really? Worst front four in decades?

[texaspokieokie]

Mike Stoops fixed OU's pass defense ???

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Really? Worst front four in decades?

Yes, really. Name a year that was worse from 1970 on.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I thought they did fairly well..Now if you are blaming them for teams running up and down the field, I disagree there also.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Mike Stoops fixed OU's pass defense ???

I would say only giving up 206 passing yards per game in a pass happy conference despite having ZERO pass rush (thanks to Venables and co. not taking care of business in the recruiting department the past several years) and cutting the number of passing TDs in damn near half and watching Oklahoma no longer getting torched on big pass plays every game and getting exploited over the middle again and again as fixing the pass defense. And those numbers weren't products of OU's poor rushing defense.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I thought they did fairly well..Now if you are blaming them for teams running up and down the field, I disagree there also.

They couldn't even perform their role of absorbing blocks at the DT spots and the DEs got BBQ'ed on outside run plays, that Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis snuffed out so well in 2011. OU missed those guys badly. The best OU could do was a 2nd team all-Big 12 performer with hybrid DE/DT David King and if it wasn't for such a weak year in the conference for DE/DTs, he wouldn't of even made 2nd team. They couldn't even get an honorable mention.

At the DT spots, McFarland, Walker and McGee were all embarrassingly slow for a program like Oklahoma. There's a big reason why Oklahoma has been bad on defense the past few years and that constant has been the same group of bad DTs. Jordan Phillips should have started last season. At least the issue will be forced this season.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

To be fair to Ndulue, he had a solid debut year (as as starter) and could really have a break-out junior campaign, but this past season, it was still a major drop off from Ronnell and Frank.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Just imagine Brent Venables without Travis Lewis, Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis in the 2012 season at Oklahoma. Yeah, yet another loss to Texas Tech in Lubbock and OU probably loses to both Baylor and OSU in Norman if he was still around. Effectively getting rid of Venables was the right move. Mike Stoops fixed OU's pass defense and the rushing defense will get fixed when OU isn't fielding their worst front four in decades, which was strictly due to talent or lack thereof.

The front 4 wasn't too bad since the DEs were pretty good. Had you said worst linebacking corps then I would have agreed with you. Heck I would have agreed with you any of the last 5 years.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

They couldn't even perform their role of absorbing blocks at the DT spots and the DEs got BBQ'ed on outside run plays, that Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis snuffed out so well in 2011. OU missed those guys badly. The best OU could do was a 2nd team all-Big 12 performer with hybrid DE/DT David King and if it wasn't for such a weak year in the conference for DE/DTs, he wouldn't of even made 2nd team. They couldn't even get an honorable mention.

At the DT spots, McFarland, Walker and McGee were all embarrassingly slow for a program like Oklahoma. There's a big reason why Oklahoma has been bad on defense the past few years and that constant has been the same group of bad DTs. Jordan Phillips should have started last season. At least the issue will be forced this season.

I hate to break it to you but the DTs haven't "absorbed" blocks for a decade. Our problem at DT is around 20% talent/80% technique. As a defender, you can't ever take the path of least resistance (or in other words, go where the OL wants you to go) yet ours did it pretty much every play.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I would say only giving up 206 passing yards per game in a pass happy conference despite having ZERO pass rush (thanks to Venables and co. not taking care of business in the recruiting department the past several years) and cutting the number of passing TDs in damn near half and watching Oklahoma no longer getting torched on big pass plays every game and getting exploited over the middle again and again as fixing the pass defense. And those numbers weren't products of OU's poor rushing defense.

Here is the thing. If I am an OC and I can run the ball for big yards, I'll never pass. When you take into account this mentality having horrid run defense stats makes the pass defense stats almost meaningless.

[OkieThunderLion]

Just imagine Brent Venables without Travis Lewis, Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis in the 2012 season at Oklahoma. Yeah, yet another loss to Texas Tech in Lubbock and OU probably loses to both Baylor and OSU in Norman if he was still around. Effectively getting rid of Venables was the right move. Mike Stoops fixed OU's pass defense and the rushing defense will get fixed when OU isn't fielding their worst front four in decades, which was strictly due to talent or lack thereof.
Perhaps a loss in Lubbock, but Venables D shuts down K-State and maybe Notre Dame.
I think the overall record would have been the same with Venables.

The rush D was the worst ever more to do w/ scheme than anything else. They did not allocate bodies to stop the run, like Venables would. But philosophies have their faults. Not sure which is correct other than to get great players everywhere.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

They couldn't even perform their role of absorbing blocks at the DT spots and the DEs got BBQ'ed on outside run plays, that Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis snuffed out so well in 2011. OU missed those guys badly. The best OU could do was a 2nd team all-Big 12 performer with hybrid DE/DT David King and if it wasn't for such a weak year in the conference for DE/DTs, he wouldn't of even made 2nd team. They couldn't even get an honorable mention.

DEs get tackles on the edge because someone else is containing the edge. There just isn't any way for a DE to beat a RB to the corner otherwise. Comparing 2011 to 2012 falls apart when you take into account that the 2011 team always had a corner with edge contain on runs. It was why the majority of runs against us were right up the gut (and thus why I called our defense a Twinky). The DEs on the 2011 team got a lot of tackles pinching down not necessarily outrunning guys to the sidelines. That year Hurst had as many tackles as Lewis.

The 2012 D took away that outside leverage forcing our DEs to chase guys to the sidelines. The general design was to flush them into space and then have the safeties clean them up as the DEs strung out the play. You can kind of see this in the tackle stats even though late in the year TJ was less than effective in this.

2011
Colvin - 84
Lewis - 84
TJ - 74
Wort - 71
Fleming - 60
Lewis - 59
Nelson -59
Hurst - 55

2012
TJ - 119 (85 solo)
Harris - 86 (58 solo)
Colvin - 61
Hurst - 59
Wort - 53
Nelson - 47
Ndulae - 45

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Perhaps a loss in Lubbock, but Venables D shuts down K-State and maybe Notre Dame.
I think the overall record would have been the same with Venables.

The rush D was the worst ever more to do w/ scheme than anything else. They did not allocate bodies to stop the run, like Venables would. But philosophies have their faults. Not sure which is correct other than to get great players everywhere.

Mike's philosophy (outtalent them against the run, scheme against the pass) has a higher ceiling than BVs (Scheme the run, outtalent the pass) but it also is a LOT more personnel dependent to succeed.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Perhaps a loss in Lubbock, but Venables D shuts down K-State and maybe Notre Dame.
I think the overall record would have been the same with Venables.


Agreed.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I hate to break it to you but the DTs haven't "absorbed" blocks for a decade. Our problem at DT is around 20% talent/80% technique. As a defender, you can't ever take the path of least resistance (or in other words, go where the OL wants you to go) yet ours did it pretty much every play.

It's all over the film and started from game 1. The problem is when there is no linebackers on the field, choosing that path without back up= big gains..pretty simple really.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I hate to break it to you but the DTs haven't "absorbed" blocks for a decade. Our problem at DT is around 20% talent/80% technique. As a defender, you can't ever take the path of least resistance (or in other words, go where the OL wants you to go) yet ours did it pretty much every play.

I hate to break it to you, that returned this year with Mike Stoops being back. Sadly, the DTs couldn't even do that.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Here is the thing. If I am an OC and I can run the ball for big yards, I'll never pass. When you take into account this mentality having horrid run defense stats makes the pass defense stats almost meaningless.

The opposing offenses weren't too far off if their passing attempts against Oklahoma despite their success in the run game. I already took that into account. Next.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Perhaps a loss in Lubbock, but Venables D shuts down K-State and maybe Notre Dame.

LOL!!! Not without Travis Lewis, Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis he doesn't! Those guys were a much bigger impact on what happened to OU's rush defense than the scheme/philosophical change. And OU's defense did their job in the KSU game (less than half of their scoring average and 1 TD was on the Sooner offense and another was a gift at mid-field thanks to Landry), that was a fail on the offensive side of the ball. And the defense in the Notre Dame game was fine until the final 8 minutes of that game after they finally caved due to the Sooner offense not doing crap for 3 1/2 quarters.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

DEs get tackles on the edge because someone else is containing the edge. There just isn't any way for a DE to beat a RB to the corner otherwise. Comparing 2011 to 2012 falls apart when you take into account that the 2011 team always had a corner with edge contain on runs. It was why the majority of runs against us were right up the gut (and thus why I called our defense a Twinky). The DEs on the 2011 team got a lot of tackles pinching down not necessarily outrunning guys to the sidelines. That year Hurst had as many tackles as Lewis.

The 2012 D took away that outside leverage forcing our DEs to chase guys to the sidelines. The general design was to flush them into space and then have the safeties clean them up as the DEs strung out the play. You can kind of see this in the tackle stats even though late in the year TJ was less than effective in this.

2011
Colvin - 84
Lewis - 84
TJ - 74
Wort - 71
Fleming - 60
Lewis - 59
Nelson -59
Hurst - 55

2012
TJ - 119 (85 solo)
Harris - 86 (58 solo)
Colvin - 61
Hurst - 59
Wort - 53
Nelson - 47
Ndulae - 45


OU has the same **** DT play in 2011 as they did in 2012. The difference was in the DEs and not having Travis Lewis. Now while Travis Lewis was obviously hobbled in 2011 and had some of his weaknesses, he at least almost always hit the right gap, which is what Wort failed to do and ultimately landed him on the bench. In 2012, OU got torched in the run game whether teams ran between the tackles or off tackle and that is because the lateral pursuit of the DEs sucked. It didn't matter. TJ's tackling numbers were up, because the front four failed to do their job and he had to be all over the damn place. He had a very unfair and almost impossible assignment this past season.

And yes, OU's linebackers were terrible and the worst in decades as well, but they got ZERO help from the guys in front of them.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The opposing offenses weren't too far off if their passing attempts against Oklahoma despite their success in the run game. I already took that into account. Next.

heh.

Avg per Rush - 2011 - 3.7 | 2012 - 5.2
Avg per Pass - 2011 - 6.6 | 2012 - 6.4
Avg per Catch - 2011 - 12.2 | 2012 - 12.2
Avg per Play - 2011 - 5.1 | 2012 - 5.7
First Downs Rushing - 2011 - 98/250 | 2012 - 111/250
3rd Down Conversion - 2011 - 30% | 2012 - 42%

The defenses are practically identical minus the philosophy shift.

As for the long TD argument:

TDs - 2011 - 35 | 2012 - 41
TDs inside RZ - 2011 - 20 (15 outside) | 2012 - 27 (14 outside)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

OU has the same **** DT play in 2011 as they did in 2012. The difference was in the DEs and not having Travis Lewis. Now while Travis Lewis was obviously hobbled in 2011 and had some of his weaknesses, he at least almost always hit the right gap, which is what Wort failed to do and ultimately landed him on the bench. In 2012, OU got torched in the run game whether teams ran between the tackles or off tackle and that is because the lateral pursuit of the DEs sucked. It didn't matter. TJ's tackling numbers were up, because the front four failed to do their job and he had to be all over the damn place. He had a very unfair and almost impossible assignment this past season.

And yes, OU's linebackers were terrible and the worst in decades as well, but they got ZERO help from the guys in front of them.

Why is it on this board that people fixate on one group and totally ignore the shortcomings of everyone else. You aren't any different from those blaming Landry for every single loss.

[OkieThunderLion]

LOL!!! Not without Travis Lewis, Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis he doesn't! Those guys were a much bigger impact on what happened to OU's rush defense than the scheme/philosophical change. And OU's defense did their job in the KSU game (less than half of their scoring average and 1 TD was on the Sooner offense and another was a gift at mid-field thanks to Landry), that was a fail on the offensive side of the ball. And the defense in the Notre Dame game was fine until the final 8 minutes of that game after they finally caved due to the Sooner offense not doing crap for 3 1/2 quarters.

Odd "LOL!!!".

[PLaw]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Stoops was highly motivated by fan rumblings, only that I'm sure there was some pressure on him at the end of the year that he hadn't felt in a while, or ever, at OU.

I really, really like the new hires.

We have obviously strengthened recruiting and addressed some complacency (Shipp). Despite having a first rounder, it is pretty ridiculous to have an OT/TE coach. Kittle's position needed to go.

Next, Kish needs to be on the PIP chopping block.

Looks like HCBS is adding strong recruiters that are also capable position coaches.

Should be a fun year.

BOOMER

[goingoneight]

Just imagine Brent Venables without Travis Lewis, Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis in the 2012 season at Oklahoma. Yeah, yet another loss to Texas Tech in Lubbock and OU probably loses to both Baylor and OSU in Norman if he was still around. Effectively getting rid of Venables was the right move. Mike Stoops fixed OU's pass defense and the rushing defense will get fixed when OU isn't fielding their worst front four in decades, which was strictly due to talent or lack thereof.

So... offering to match Clemson's offer to KEEP VENABLES IN NORMAN is "effectively getting rid of" him, eh?

[8timechamps]

We have obviously strengthened recruiting and addressed some complacency (Shipp). Despite having a first rounder, it is pretty ridiculous to have an OT/TE coach. Kittle's position needed to go.

Next, Kish needs to be on the PIP chopping block.

Looks like HCBS is adding strong recruiters that are also capable position coaches.

Should be a fun year.

BOOMER

I really don't know if the Kittle thing was an experiment, helping a friend, or if Bob genuinely thought Kittle was an excellent coach and/or recruiter, but it failed on all counts. Anyway, I agree with your assessment of that situation.

The jury is out on Kish, and for me, it will be for at least another year (but probably two). Not only was he brought in late in the process, he had very little to work with and a defensive coordinator that had less faith in the talent than we probably want to admit (not that it wasn't glaring). So, given that recruiting cycles are longer than just one year, I won't view Kish as even being on the job for a year until this time next year. There is no question though, that the perceived image is that he is already behind the eight ball.

HCBS went for the full overhaul. Which was clearly needed.

2013 may not be "the" year, and there may be more losses than we want, but there is no doubt I am excited to see how the new pieces work.

SOONER!