Mack to recruits: "You take a visit elsewhere, you're not committed to Texas!"

[8timechamps]

I'm sure by now everyone has heard about Brown's "rule". It seems to me that Mack is grasping at straws. For years (maybe since Mack got to Texas), the Longhorns have had excellent recruiting classes. They've almost been able to hand pick the best kids in Texas. Then, after a few years of sub-par performances, Mack lands a below average class. So, as a result, he institutes a rule; if you commit to Texas, and take a visit elsewhere, Texas will pull your offer. Seems like Mack is out of ideas, and this is what he came up with.

Wonder how long this rule will last. I'm guessing not long.

[olevetonahill]

Until a Kid has Signed a LOI he aint committed anyway.

[8timechamps]

Until a Kid has Signed a LOI he aint committed anyway.

Technically, you're right. In the last cycle, Texas lost a kid at DT that was verbally committed to Alabama. What made it bad (for Texas) was that it happened less than a week before signing day. That makes it hard for a team to fill that spot (however, being Texas, I think it was great). Still, to tell a kid "once you verbally commit, you're done with the process" seems moronic, even for Mack.

[Scott D]

That's been Mack's policy for years.

[olevetonahill]

Technically, you're right. In the last cycle, Texas lost a kid at DT that was verbally committed to Alabama. What made it bad (for Texas) was that it happened less than a week before signing day. That makes it hard for a team to fill that spot (however, being Texas, I think it was great). Still, to tell a kid "once you verbally commit, you're done with the process" seems moronic, even for Mack.

True Bro.
Seems to me If a Kid is good enough to Offer in the 1st place hes good enough to Not let get away .

[basel90]

I kind of like his approach. It makes the commit's word more binding , and if he wants to flirt around then goodbye ...

[Widescreen]

Bob has said basically the same thing. If a kid's still looking around, he's not really committed and his scholarship isn't necessarily reserved. Not sure what the big deal is.

[badger]

Meatchicken's Hoke has the exact same policy.

As much as we love to whate on whorn, I wouldn't be surprised if other schools had similar policies.

The schools have to have some recourse for verbal commits playing around with them.

[Herr Scholz]

Bob has said basically the same thing. If a kid's still looking around, he's not really committed and his scholarship isn't necessarily reserved. Not sure what the big deal is.

That's correct. Mack just said if you're going to keep looking, then so are we. But if you're truly committed and shut down the process, then we'll keep our word to you as well.

[badger]

That's correct. Mack just said if you're going to keep looking, then so are we. But if you're truly committed and shut down the process, then we'll keep our word to you as well.

Mack is almost loyal to a fault. Why else would Case McCoy still be taking up one of your coveted 85 schollys

[Ruf/Nek7]

Technically, you're right. In the last cycle, Texas lost a kid at DT that was verbally committed to Alabama. What made it bad (for Texas) was that it happened less than a week before signing day. That makes it hard for a team to fill that spot (however, being Texas, I think it was great). Still, to tell a kid "once you verbally commit, you're done with the process" seems moronic, even for Mack.

Speaking of that kid, he bashed texass for announcing that he would be committing to bama before he was able to do his whole, big announcement, hat party. So what does he do? He has a student dress as an elephant and brings the bama hat in to show his decision. Kids these days. smh

[HToady]

That's correct. Mack just said if you're going to keep looking, then so are we. But if you're truly committed and shut down the process, then we'll keep our word to you as well.

So you are saying Mack (and UT) have never renegged on a committed kid? I seem to recall a few in the past that said otherwise...like Johnny Manziel maybe?

[badger]

So you are saying Mack (and UT) have never renegged on a committed kid? I seem to recall a few in the past that said otherwise...like Johnny Manziel maybe?

I don't think they ever offered Johnny Football as a quarterback, nor do I think Johnny committed to UT. He was committed to Oregon, but he switched to A&M to stay closer to home methinks.

I only know this because shaggy et al are in full-on hate mode for Mack not offering the two previous Heisman winners at quarterbacks, even though both probably would have gone to UT if offered as QBs.

[prrriiide]

Mack is almost loyal to a fault. Why else would Case McCoy still be taking up one of your coveted 85 schollys

Judging by this year's singing class, they ain't that coveted...

[OkieThunderLion]

I totally agree with Mack.

If you are visiting elsewhere, you are truly not 100% committed. If the player can keep looking, the school should obviously be able to as well.

[MyT Oklahoma]

I really don't care what he does. Mack will always be Mack and UT will always suck.

[8timechamps]

Bob has said basically the same thing. If a kid's still looking around, he's not really committed and his scholarship isn't necessarily reserved. Not sure what the big deal is.

It's been an unwritten rule under Stoops reign, but he will make a case by case exception. However, he's never 'laid down the law' at a press conference about the whole thing. That's what I find far more interesting about this event.

[sappstuf]

I totally agree with Mack.

Yellow teeth are cool.

Interesting.

[Herr Scholz]

So you are saying Mack (and UT) have never renegged on a committed kid? I seem to recall a few in the past that said otherwise...like Johnny Manziel maybe?
Really? Who? Manziel never got an offer from us. We looked at him for DB but never offered. Mack honors his commitments. He's even honored full scholarships for kids who had their careers ended due to injury (ie Matt Nader who stayed with the team as a GA even though he never played). Your coach just failed to do that with a kid in this past class btw. Stoops took away a scholarship offer from injured Matt Beyer He got out of the offer with the "he hadn't officially signed yet" loophole.


OL: Matt Nader, Austin Westlake (6-6, 310, 5.1)
During a game against A&M Consolidated during his senior season at Westlake, Nader collapsed on the sideline, struck with sudden cardiac arrest. The Texas commit was thankfully resuscitated and had surgery to help with his condition (he now has an internal defibrillator in his chest), but the big blue-chipper had to give up football. Texas coach Mack Brown honored their scholarship offer to Nader, and he became a major advocate for defibrillators at all sporting events, including the UIL, while also assisting the Longhorns football team.

"Beyer said he was told Tuesday by Oklahoma offensive tackles coach Bruce Kittle that his scholarship offer to Oklahoma will not be honored, Beyer confirmed to SoonerNation on Thursday night. Beyer, who committed to the Sooners on July 2, has been forced to give up football because he was diagnosed with the spinal-cord condition cervical stenosis about three weeks ago. "

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/college/from-the-heart-nader-says-farewell-to-football-f-1/nRTPk/

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8435611/oklahoma-sooners-says-recruit-matt-beyer-struck-spinal-condition

[jkjsooner]

Really? Who? Manziel never got an offer from us. We looked at him for DB but never offered. Mack honors his commitments. He's even honored full scholarships for kids who had their careers ended due to injury (ie Matt Nader who stayed with the team as a GA even though he never played). Your coach just failed to do that with a kid in this past class btw. Stoops took away a scholarship offer from injured Matt Beyer He got out of the offer with the "he hadn't officially signed yet" loophole.

Hadn't officially signed yet loophole? Apparently you've been asleep the last couple of years. A scholarship offer can be revoked even after the player signs. See greyshirting, LSU, or Alabama.

[olevetonahill]

Really? Who? Manziel never got an offer from us. We looked at him for DB but never offered. Mack honors his commitments. He's even honored full scholarships for kids who had their careers ended due to injury (ie Matt Nader who stayed with the team as a GA even though he never played). Your coach just failed to do that with a kid in this past class btw. Stoops took away a scholarship offer from injured Matt Beyer He got out of the offer with the "he hadn't officially signed yet" loophole.


OL: Matt Nader, Austin Westlake (6-6, 310, 5.1)
During a game against A&M Consolidated during his senior season at Westlake, Nader collapsed on the sideline, struck with sudden cardiac arrest. The Texas commit was thankfully resuscitated and had surgery to help with his condition (he now has an internal defibrillator in his chest), but the big blue-chipper had to give up football. Texas coach Mack Brown honored their scholarship offer to Nader, and he became a major advocate for defibrillators at all sporting events, including the UIL, while also assisting the Longhorns football team.

"Beyer said he was told Tuesday by Oklahoma offensive tackles coach Bruce Kittle that his scholarship offer to Oklahoma will not be honored, Beyer confirmed to SoonerNation on Thursday night. Beyer, who committed to the Sooners on July 2, has been forced to give up football because he was diagnosed with the spinal-cord condition cervical stenosis about three weeks ago. "

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/college/from-the-heart-nader-says-farewell-to-football-f-1/nRTPk/

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8435611/oklahoma-sooners-says-recruit-matt-beyer-struck-spinal-condition

So which was it Whorn? Kittle who just got Fired or Stoops?

And Im so glad you think mack is all that. Yall keep him forever PLEASE.

[Herr Scholz]

Just responding to Toady who falsely said Mack reneges on scholarship offers. I gave an example of 2 players who couldn't play anymore due to medical conditions. Mack honored his promise to Nader. Stoops didn't with Beyer.

[olevetonahill]

Just responding to Toady who falsely said Mack reneges on scholarship offers. I gave an example of 2 players who couldn't play anymore due to medical conditions. Mack honored his promise to Nader. Stoops didn't with Beyer.

Address the statement you quoted.
YOU say Stoops didn't honor it Yet your quote says Kittle who Stoops just let go. So which is it?

[Herr Scholz]

Address the statement you quoted.
YOU say Stoops didn't honor it Yet your quote says Kittle who Stoops just let go. So which is it?
Really? This is the red herring you want to run with? Fine. Stoops is the head coach. He makes the decisions.

[olevetonahill]

Really? This is the red herring you want to run with? Fine. Stoops is the head coach. He makes the decisions.

Just sayin, He fired Kittle, Kittle may have done this W/O Bobs knowledge .

But you go right ahead there Lid wannabe and Try to make Bob look small minded and mean while you try to pump sunshine about yer idiot coach.

[Herr Scholz]

OK, the Assistant O line coach pulled a committed scholarship offer from an injured player without the head coach's knowledge. Gotcha. Seems legit.

One coach honored his scholarship offer to an injured kid. One screwed him over ala Saban. Just sayin. Does it happen all the time? No. But did it happen? Yes.

[olevetonahill]

OK, the Assistant O line coach pulled a committed scholarship offer from an injured player without the head coach's knowledge. Gotcha. Seems legit.

One coach honored his scholarship offer to an injured kid. One screwed him over ala Saban. Just sayin. Does it happen all the time? No. But did it happen? Yes.


That Mack is such a swell guy. Dont Yall just love him?

[Herr Scholz]

I respect him as a person, definitely.

[SoonerorLater]

OK, the Assistant O line coach pulled a committed scholarship offer from an injured player without the head coach's knowledge. Gotcha. Seems legit.

One coach honored his scholarship offer to an injured kid. One screwed him over ala Saban. Just sayin. Does it happen all the time? No. But did it happen? Yes.

There is quite a bit of difference of pulling an offer and pulling scholarships. Saban does both. Bob just pulled an "offer". Beyer hadn't even signed LOI. It makes no sense to spend a scholarship for somebody who is unable to perform the function for which they were offered.

[olevetonahill]

There is quite a bit of difference of pulling an offer and pulling scholarships. Saban does both. Bob just pulled an "offer". Beyer hadn't even signed LOI. It makes no sense to spend a scholarship for somebody who is unable to perform the function for which they were offered.

But,But, Saint Mack did just that. He's so much better than Bob.

[Herr Scholz]

It was more than an offer to Beyer. It was an "accepted offer". Then the kid finds out he can't play anymore and then POOF, no more offer. The benefit of committing early is having some security in place (but not of course if the coach you're dealing with doesn't keep his word obviously). That's exactly what Saban would've done. The whole "he hadn't signed his LOI yet" thing is so weasely IMO. It's an excuse. It's a loophole.

Look, back to Toady's original false statement, Mack doesn't renege on offers. I can't remember him ever doing it one time. If a kid commits to Texas and shuts down the recruiting process, then Mack will keep his word as well regardless of circumstances.

[olevetonahill]

It was more than an offer to Beyer. It was an "accepted offer". Then the kid finds out he can't play anymore and then POOF, no more offer. The benefit of committing early is having some security in place (but not of course if the coach you're dealing with doesn't keep his word obviously). That's exactly what Saban would've done. The whole "he hadn't signed his LOI yet" thing is so weasely IMO. It's an excuse. It's a loophole.

Look, back to Toady's original false statement, Mack doesn't renege on offers. I can't remember him ever doing it one time. If a kid commits to Texas and shuts down the recruiting process, then Mack will keep his word as well regardless of circumstances.

Mack is such a saint Ima become a whorn fan. To hell with them liein cheatin gooners

[Herr Scholz]

We're all full up but I'll put your application on the waiting list. I'll let you know.

[olevetonahill]

We're all full up but I'll put your application on the waiting list. I'll let you know.

Oh Boy, Im just all Giddy with excitement .

[cherokeebrewer]

You guys gonna fight?

[Herr Scholz]

Nah. He's not even mad yet.

[kevpks]

I have no criticisms to offer about Mack as a recruiter. As a coach on the field? The regular beatdowns in the Cotton Bowl speak for themselves.

[FaninAma]

I prefer Mack's policy over that of Saban and the rest of the cutthroat coaches in the SEC. "If you verbal to Alabama we will commit to you until we aren't".

[Herr Scholz]

I have no criticisms to offer about Mack as a recruiter. As a coach on the field? The regular beatdowns in the Cotton Bowl speak for themselves.
No argument. I've sat through 4 of those myself.

[Herr Scholz]

I prefer Mack's policy over that of Saban and the rest of the cutthroat coaches in the SEC. "If you verbal to Alabama we will commit to you until we aren't".
Exactly. "Son, you have an offer to play for us...unless we change our mind or find someone better or get bored with you. Congrats!"

[Jason White's Third Knee]

It was an "accepted offer". Then the kid finds out he can't play anymore and then POOF, no more offer.


Oh please. This is not cut-throat. This is a ridiculous indictment. Comparing Stoops to Saban? Preposterous. There is no ethical comparison here. It's a total reach to say that there is.

For the record, I like Mack Brown just fine.

[cherokeebrewer]

You guys should check out Matt Beyer's twitter feed. He said 3 days ago...he will always be a Sooner fan no matter where he attends college. He was born with spinal-cord cervical stenosis. Great young man with a very healthy attitude. He certainly feels no animosity toward OU...

[Curly Bill]

Whatever Saban woulda done seems to be what the rest of us ought to be doin.

Just sayin...

[toast]

It must be the off-season, Herr Sholz is around

[SoonerorLater]

Exactly. "Son, you have an offer to play for us...unless we change our mind or find someone better or get bored with you. Congrats!"

I understand what you are saying but I also understand that you play by the rules as they are. Saban is doing just that. Is it smarmy and unethical? IMO yes but it's within the rules and gives his team a large competitive advantage. If you want to win you have to get in the mud and wrestle with the pigs. OU needs to do everything they possibly can do within the rules to win football games.

[Herr Scholz]

Oh please. This is not cut-throat. This is a ridiculous indictment. Comparing Stoops to Saban? Preposterous. There is no ethical comparison here. It's a total reach to say that there is.
OK, then if Stoops pulling an accepted offer when the kid gets injured (or diagnosed or ill or whatever) and can't play anymore is perfectly reasonable, then you would admit that Mack honoring Matt Nader's scholarship in the same situation is going above and beyond and he's a really good guy, right?

[Herr Scholz]

I understand what you are saying but I also understand that you play by the rules as they are. Saban is doing just that. Is it smarmy and unethical? IMO yes but it's within the rules and gives his team a large competitive advantage. If you want to win you have to get in the mud and wrestle with the pigs. OU needs to do everything they possibly can do within the rules to win football games.

I hear you about doing everything legal to win but I just don't like the oversigning and trap dooring of players. He's been wildly successful sure but I think there's a right and wrong way to treat people, especially screwing them at the end of the recruiting cycle when you run out of room and they've run out of other options. To me that's really unethical. It hurts both the kids and other teams unfairly. If you offer someone, you should be a man of your word IMO. But obviously it hasn't hurt him in recruiting. You can get away with whatever the recruits will allow.

[Curly Bill]

If Saban is doing something recruits don't like they sure don't have to go there, but they are, and the very best of em at that! Seems to me he's doing exactly what his job entails he should be doing, and that's doing everything within the rules to be successful. Give me more of that and less of the Father Flanigan stuff.

[HToady]

Just responding to Toady who falsely said Mack reneges on scholarship offers. I gave an example of 2 players who couldn't play anymore due to medical conditions. Mack honored his promise to Nader. Stoops didn't with Beyer.

So you are saying Mack has NEVER pulled an offer? EVER? Or any representative of UT football?

My point was, if you demand that the athlete honor his commitment, by not taking other visits, then you need to be "squeekie clean" yourself. It should be a two way street or else it's hypocritical.

[SoonerorLater]

The way the recruiting process in college football is designed either party unilaterally can walk away from the deal prior to signing the LOI for any number of reasons. It's the coaches perogitive to decide what is best for the program and act accordingly. I personally would like to see the rules change on a number of points but until that time every coach is paid to do what is best for their programs. As a matter of fact any coach that doesn't act in the best interest of the university that writes his check should be fired.

[jkjsooner]

It was more than an offer to Beyer. It was an "accepted offer". Then the kid finds out he can't play anymore and then POOF, no more offer. The benefit of committing early is having some security in place (but not of course if the coach you're dealing with doesn't keep his word obviously). That's exactly what Saban would've done. The whole "he hadn't signed his LOI yet" thing is so weasely IMO. It's an excuse. It's a loophole.

I think you are going overboard comparing the pulling of a non-binding verbal agreement with the yanking of a signed letter of intent. When a kid signs a letter of intent he is bound by that agreement. Whether or not the school is bound by that agreement (they are not), it seems highly unethical to pull the rug out of the kid who signed a LOI. This is especially true because the kid can't shop around as he's bound to his agreement. You've given the schools complete power over the kids and a respectable coach will not abuse this power.

The verbal agreements are very different. Kids often reneg on their verbal agreements so there isn't a balance of power issue at play. A kid who doesn't think Stoops' offer is going to be binding has every right to shop around and/or not agree to the offer in the first place. The difference is once that kid signs a LOI he knows that Stoops and Mack Brown will honor that scholarship even if the kid gets injured over the summer. With Saban, the kid never really knows and it doesn't even take an injury to have his scholarship yanked.

Now, if what you say about Brown is true then I have a lot of respect for his integrity. I think in this instance he's gone above and beyond what most would consider ethical.

[Herr Scholz]

So you are saying Mack has NEVER pulled an offer? EVER? Or any representative of UT football?

My point was, if you demand that the athlete honor his commitment, by not taking other visits, then you need to be "squeekie clean" yourself. It should be a two way street or else it's hypocritical.

If you're going to accuse Mack of being hypocritical, having at least a single example of it might be helpful. Just sayin. I don't know of a single recruit he has pulled an offer from who wasn't taking other visits after committing. If you do, please share. Mack has always honored his promises to kids when they honor theirs. He is squeaky clean. But again, if you can refute that, please do so.

[Herr Scholz]

As a matter of fact any coach that doesn't act in the best interest of the university that writes his check should be fired.
True but I would argue not greyshirting excess kids right before signing day when you run out of room or not dumping kids when they get hurt is in the best interest of the program long term. Not screwing kids over is good business as far as I'm concerned.

[olevetonahill]

You guys gonna fight?


Why would I want to fight a fellow Whorn lover?


Nah. He's not even mad yet.

You cant make me mad sweetness.


No argument. I've sat through 4 of those myself.

I hope you never have to sit thru another, I want my New Team to win every game by a 100.

[olevetonahill]

Ima go Puke now.:stupid:

[8timechamps]

I want to add this piece of information:

In 2012, Laith Harlow was offered a football scholarship by Stoops. Harlow learned (after the offer and commitment) that he had a back injury that would require surgery during his senior year of high school, and subsequently forced him to give up football. Stoops/Oklahoma honored his scholarship, and he is now a (soon to be) sophomore at OU.

That just happened with the previous class. While the medical scholarships don't count against the NCAA limit of 85, the school still has to come up with the funding for the kid. Harlow's case isn't the only one under Stoops, there have been others.

At some point, you just can't honor every single offer that turns out this way. The point is that the Beyer situation, while unfortunate, didn't set a precedent for the way Stoops recruits. If anything, it's an exception.

[HToady]

If you're going to accuse Mack of being hypocritical, having at least a single example of it might be helpful. Just sayin. I don't know of a single recruit he has pulled an offer from who wasn't taking other visits after committing. If you do, please share. Mack has always honored his promises to kids when they honor theirs. He is squeaky clean. But again, if you can refute that, please do so.

Gee I don't know...kinda of hard to do since most go elsewhere and usually don't brag about having an offer pulled. I guess I could say anybody (Matthew Stafford), and you could say he was never offered. Conversely it will be interesting when a 5 star comes along and visits 3 schools (all of which he as offers from) and Mack doesn't pull his offer. Jonathan Gray visited TCU and A&M and didn't get his offer pulled. Seems pretty stupid for a guy to come out with such an arrogant statement after experiencing his worst (not top 10) recruiting class in decades. Even your friends at Shaggy think so.

[Herr Scholz]

Gee I don't know...kinda of hard to do since most go elsewhere and usually don't brag about having an offer pulled. I guess I could say anybody (Matthew Stafford), and you could say he was never offered. Conversely it will be interesting when a 5 star comes along and visits 3 schools (all of which he as offers from) and Mack doesn't pull his offer. Jonathan Gray visited TCU and A&M and didn't get his offer pulled. Seems pretty stupid for a guy to come out with such an arrogant statement after experiencing his worst (not top 10) recruiting class in decades. Even your friends at Shaggy think so.
So you don't have an example of Mack pulling someone's offer when they honor their word. Gotcha. That's all you had to say.

[HToady]

So you don't have an example of Mack pulling someone's offer when they honor their word. Gotcha. That's all you had to say.

I thought I gave you one....Mack is the greatest though...can't wait to see what the future brings.

[picasso]

Pulling one doesn't always work kids. Just a little advice from a father of three.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That Mack is such a swell guy. Dont Yall just love him?I'm more than fine with Mack. He gets unfair criticism from too many folks here. He will bring tx back to the prominence that is their place in the grand scheme. He is just undergoing some temporary setbacks, but will bring the team out right where the horns deserve to be.

[Herr Scholz]

I thought I gave you one....Mack is the greatest though...can't wait to see what the future brings.
Umm, no. Again, Manziel was never offered. You don't have an example of your claim.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

GAS

Whookem Mofos! Baja OK Fight!

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Oh please. This is not cut-throat. This is a ridiculous indictment. Comparing Stoops to Saban? Preposterous. There is no ethical comparison here. It's a total reach to say that there is.
OK, then if Stoops pulling an accepted offer when the kid gets injured (or diagnosed or ill or whatever) and can't play anymore is perfectly reasonable, then you would admit that Mack honoring Matt Nader's scholarship in the same situation is going above and beyond and he's a really good guy, right?

I would need to know more details to make an assessment. Mack is an honorable coach in my opinion. I also think that Stoops is honorable. You were comparing Stoops and his situation to Saban. Apples and tuna cans.

Saban is garbage. He is winning garbage though. I wouldn't trade Stoops for that piece of crap. I don't care how many NCs Saban wins. He does it the wrong way.

[Herr Scholz]

Saban is garbage. He is winning garbage though. I wouldn't trade Stoops for that piece of crap. I don't care how many NCs Saban wins. He does it the wrong way.

Agreed.

[CatfishSooner]

I would need to know more details to make an assessment. Mack is an honorable coach in my opinion. I also think that Stoops is honorable. You were comparing Stoops and his situation to Saban. Apples and tuna cans.

Saban is garbage. He is winning garbage though. I wouldn't trade Stoops for that piece of crap. I don't care how many NCs Saban wins. He does it the wrong way.

hmmmm, for another 3 NC's I think I would...

[Eielson]

OK, the Assistant O line coach pulled a committed scholarship offer from an injured player without the head coach's knowledge. Gotcha. Seems legit.

One coach honored his scholarship offer to an injured kid. One screwed him over ala Saban. Just sayin. Does it happen all the time? No. But did it happen? Yes.

We didn't screw him. He never even got to OU. If he had played, or even practiced here, we likely would have honored the scholarship. This is not even close to Saban territory.

Having said that, I have mad respect for Mack's decision.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

I would need to know more details to make an assessment. Mack is an honorable coach in my opinion. I also think that Stoops is honorable. You were comparing Stoops and his situation to Saban. Apples and tuna cans.

Saban is garbage. He is winning garbage though. I wouldn't trade Stoops for that piece of crap. I don't care how many NCs Saban wins. He does it the wrong way.

hmmmm, for another 3 NC's I think I would...

Sadly, Saban's name is pretty clean, but he is leaving talented kids worse off than when he found them.

Football can be a meat grinder for kids, but the rewards are amazing. What Saban does to the greyshirts is repugnant.

[Jacie]

I'm more than fine with Mack. He gets unfair criticism from too many folks here. He will bring tx back to the prominence that is their place in the grand scheme. He is just undergoing some temporary setbacks, but will bring the team out right where the horns deserve to be.

He did that three seasons ago . . .

[badger]

Saban is garbage. He is winning garbage though. I wouldn't trade Stoops for that piece of crap. I don't care how many NCs Saban wins. He does it the wrong way.

If it's 20 years from now and OU still hasn't number 8, I'm not sure how many fans will hold out for winning one the right way. Hell, they're hard enough to win right or wrong way. There's tons of schools that do it wrong (like Miami with Shapiro post-2001-02 season) that still can't win it all.

Impatience got the better of most of the SEC. It'll just be a matter of time before the rest of the country gets tired of waiting too. Alas, the NCAA will likely be too disregarded by then to do anything about it

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He did that three seasons ago . . .He's undergone another minor, temporary setback, y'know. But he's the best one to lead the program forward, again. He overcomes obstacles, like a recruiting disadvantage, to rally up the team and bring them to fruition.

[swardboy]

He's undergone another minor, temporary setback, y'know. But he's the best one to lead the program forward, again. He overcomes obstacles, like a recruiting disadvantage, to rally up the team and bring them to fruition.

My sarcasm meter is temporarily on the fritz, so I don't know how to take this.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

My sarcasm meter is temporarily on the fritz, so I don't know how to take this.Hot damn! foller your endstinks!