"We have a paying for problem"

[FaninAma]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/02/12/hoyer_the_country_has_a_paying_for_problem_not_a_s pending_problem.html

BTW, how do you pay for tax cuts? "We're going to raise taxes so we can pay for the tax cut we just passed." Truly amazing stuff.

And as always "It's Bush's fault"

[soonercruiser]

Some things never change.
Obummer and the LW tactics don't seem to either.
I believe this this is all George Washington's fault.

[yermom]

i don't see a problem with what he said. you should really have a way to pay for a war, and account for tax cuts. if you are spending more money, but cut taxes, what does that get you?

[sappstuf]

It ALWAYS goes back to Bush.

The Party of Science is willfully ignorant when it comes to math. These are guys that lie to the nation and say that Social Security doesn't add to the deficit.

The media just goes along with it and we get in worse and worse shape.

[diverdog]

It ALWAYS goes back to Bush.

The Party of Science is willfully ignorant when it comes to math. These are guys that lie to the nation and say that Social Security doesn't add to the deficit.

The media just goes along with it and we get in worse and worse shape.

Ah remind me again who cut taxes in the middle of fighting two wars and kept both wars off budget?

[sappstuf]

Ah remind me again who cut taxes in the middle of fighting two wars and kept both wars off budget?

I'm not surprised.. Who extended those taxes while the wars were going on?

Let us talk about "off budget".. Obama hasn't passed a real budget in years. Every penny he has spent is "off budget" dwarfing any "off budget" spending you claim by Bush.

But the money was spent and added to the deficit each year. If you would like to compare Bush's deficits to Obama's deficits, I'm happy to oblige. In fact, we can compare Bush's 8 years of deficits to Obama's 4.

Why do you think I'm comfortable bringing that up?

The complete failure of Obama's economic policies is the answer. Disaster is too light of a word.

[diverdog]

I'm not surprised.. Who extended those taxes while the wars were going on?

Let us talk about "off budget".. Obama hasn't passed a real budget in years. Every penny he has spent is "off budget" dwarfing any "off budget" spending you claim by Bush.

But the money was spent and added to the deficit each year. If you would like to compare Bush's deficits to Obama's deficits, I'm happy to oblige. In fact, we can compare Bush's 8 years of deficits to Obama's 4.

Why do you think I'm comfortable bringing that up?

The complete failure of Obama's economic policies is the answer. Disaster is too light of a word.

When will you guys ever admit any mistakes? And you know damn well the Republicans had zero desire to work on a budget as well and you saw what happened to them in the election.

i am fine discussing budgets with you as long as you will admit 2009 is on your boy Bush and that Bush also had about $150 billion in SS surpluses that he could use to mask his deficits. We can go from there.

ps i am not happy with the recovery and I do fault Obama for not doing a better on the job front.

[sappstuf]

When will you guys ever admit any mistakes? And you know damn well the Republicans had zero desire to work on a budget as well and you saw what happened to them in the election.

i am fine discussing budgets with you as long as you will admit 2009 is on your boy Bush and that Bush also had about $150 billion in SS surpluses that he could use to mask his deficits. We can go from there.

ps i am not happy with the recovery and I do fault Obama for not doing a better on the job front.

Budgets are the easiest thing to pass in the world. They only require a simple majority in the House and Senate. Dems controlled both and yet budgets still didn't appear. Why is that? Since the Repubs have retaken the House, they have passed a budget resolution, as required, every year. Harry won't even do the bare minimum of his job and bring it up for a vote.

Exactly how is that the Repubs fault? How is it 1% the Repubs fault? Please explain, because I would love to hear the explanation.

So the $787 billion stimulus that Obama pushed for and got should be on Bush. That is beyond silliness.

You are concerned about $150 billion from SS used to mask deficits under Bush. How about $500 billion plus of TARP repayments that Obama has used to mask his deficits?? I say mask, but still we have $1 trillion dollars every year.

I'm sure his budget proposal this year will fix all of that though... Oh wait. He has broken the law again and not submitted his budget to the House.

I'm sure you can explain why that is the Repubs fault as well...

[Sooner98]

At this point, if we could get the deficit back down to the $400-500 billion yearly deficits of the Bush administration (while two wars were going on and taxes were where they were), I would be ecstatic.

[XingTheRubicon]

Exactly, Bush's worst deficit was 500B, now we're more than double that...with a bullet.

[cleller]

Ever since that whippersnapper Calvin Coolidge was elected and started this business of E-lec-tricity in every house, and motorcars all over the roads, we've had nothing but misery!

In my day a man went out in the morning and brought his own supper home at night. None of this fancy government meal plan.

[Sooner98]

HOYER: "Well, we spent a lot of money when George Bush was president of the United States in the House and Senate were controlled by Republicans. We spent a lot of money."

Notice the uptick in spending, starting around 2007 (after Democrats took control of both the House and Senate), and then the explosion in spending after 2008. Why does Senator Hoyer hate math and facts so much?

http://www.supportingevidence.com/sitebuilder/images/USbudgetOverTimeFull-820x563.jpg

[FaninAma]

Ah remind me again who cut taxes in the middle of fighting two wars and kept both wars off budget?
And yet Bush ran a smaller deficit than Obama has each of the past 4 years. Bush was a dumbass. We get it. That's why you were elected over the representative of Bush's political party. Other than increasing the size of the reciepient class that tends to be in your hip pocket what have you done during your first term, Mr. President?

[Sooner98]

Obama, reminding us how irresponsible and unpatriotic it is to run up $500 billion yearly deficits, in the name of our children:

zUPZJDBJI84

[cleller]

Obama, reminding us how irresponsible and unpatriotic it is to run up $500 billion yearly deficits, in the name of our children:

zUPZJDBJI84

Yep, he seems very outraged and incredulous there at how irresponsible and unpatriotic it is to run up a debt of $30k per citizen.

Its now $50k per citizen. No wonder he wants to add illegals as citizens. It will drive his debt average down some.

[diverdog]

Exactly, Bush's worst deficit was 500B, now we're more than double that...with a bullet.

No it was over a trillion dollars.

[Curly Bill]

I still wanna know how pointing out Bush was a terrible president, excuses the current occupant of the office from being an even worse president?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

What a frickin' arse!

[BermudaSooner]

No it was over a trillion dollars.

hmmm...not according to www.whitehouse.gov

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist.pdf

[okie52]

i don't see a problem with what he said. you should really have a way to pay for a war, and account for tax cuts. if you are spending more money, but cut taxes, what does that get you?

Obama's first 4 years?

[soonercruiser]

Ah remind me again who cut taxes in the middle of fighting two wars and kept both wars off budget?

Why was that done???
9-11 anyone! Affects on the economy after 9-11????
Otherwise, any excuse is good for the LW to raise taxes.
WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM...even without wars.

[Sooner98]

No it was over a trillion dollars.

In 2008 it was, because of TARP (a one-time bailout), which added $700 billion. It was voted on, and House Democrats voted in favor of it, 172-63, while Senate Democrats (including Obama) voted in favor of it 41-11. Why does this always seem to get overlooked when people reference Bush's "trillion dollar" deficits?

[soonercruiser]

It doesn't fit the Left's message.
If it don't fit, bury it!

[Sooner5030]

ah...more folks debating the Bush vs Obama deficits.

Neither had/has the power to pass a budget, appropriation bill, or continuing resolution without both houses giving their approval. Neither house can pass a budget, appropriation bill, or continuing resolution without the approval of the executive. There's a lot of culpability to go around.

Anyway, the actual budget doesn't even give budget authority to the agencies to spend....it's just a ten year plan that includes estimated mandatory spending and caps for the appropriations that will follow in separate resolutions.

Pubs like spending, dems like spending even more. Just my opinion.

We cannot continue to increase our total debt at 8% per year only to get 2% in GDP growth. All keynesians should just choke themselves.....and not with my hand. None of the connected folks will admit that we've been living on deficit induced GDP growth for so long that taking it away means recession. Of course the other option is default/inflate.

We have no good options left....thanks to the two party system and our nations addiction to a "free lunch" economy, government, and society.

[FaninAma]

No it was over a trillion dollars.

Please comment on the current administration's budget deficits. Your credibility gets shredded every time you drag Bush into the argument.

[SoonerorLater]

ah...more folks debating the Bush vs Obama deficits.

Neither had/has the power to pass a budget, appropriation bill, or continuing resolution without both houses giving their approval. Neither house can pass a budget, appropriation bill, or continuing resolution without the approval of the executive. There's a lot of culpability to go around.

Anyway, the actual budget doesn't even give budget authority to the agencies to spend....it's just a ten year plan that includes estimated mandatory spending and caps for the appropriations that will follow in separate resolutions.

Pubs like spending, dems like spending even more. Just my opinion.

We cannot continue to increase our total debt at 8% per year only to get 2% in GDP growth. All keynesians should just choke themselves.....and not with my hand. None of the connected folks will admit that we've been living on deficit induced GDP growth for so long that taking it away means recession. Of course the other option is default/inflate.

We have no good options left....thanks to the two party system and our nations addiction to a "free lunch" economy, government, and society.

Bingo! Bush was bad, Obama is worse, next president will be even worse yet, because borrowing and spending will snowball and ultimately take down everything in its path. No Party wants to balance a budget. If they did it would happen. Cowardly politicians on both sides were unwilling to take what a dozen years ago would have been short term pain to put the US's financial house in order to preserve their cushy existence. Any solution at this point will involve extreme pain and massive social unrest.

[diverdog]

Please comment on the current administration's budget deficits. Your credibility gets shredded every time you drag Bush into the argument.

Do you honestly think if McCain got elected we would not have trillion dollar deficits? The biggest driver has been a huge loss of tax revenue coupled with a huge increase in spending for social safety nets.

[FaninAma]

Do you honestly think if McCain got elected we would not have trillion dollar deficits? The biggest driver has been a huge loss of tax revenue coupled with a huge increase in spending for social safety nets.

I actually do not disagree. It still doesn't give you a pass for dragging Bush up instead of addressing what is going on currently.

The dirty little secret is we have reached the endpoint of the great Keynesian experiment began in the 30's. Nothing and nobody can stop the consequences of the moronic actions by the government over the past 75 years. I think it is poetic justice that this is all coming to a head on the 100th birthday of the Federal Reserve and Federal Income Tax.

[yermom]

Please comment on the current administration's budget deficits. Your credibility gets shredded every time you drag Bush into the argument.

don't they need to pass a budget to have a deficit? :D

[FaninAma]

don't they need to pass a budget to have a deficit? :D

Actually that is the way the democrats were able to permanently incorporate the 2009 stimulus into the budget. With baseline budgeting they simply use the previous year's budget as a template and pass continuing resolutions. Since 2009 was the last year a budget was passed they simply used it as a template....stimulus and all.

[BigTip]

Why does Senator Hoyer hate math and facts so much?

[IMG]h

Because Rep. Hoyer is a Democrat. They don't believe in math and facts. You know, all that voodoo type stuff.

[BigTip]

Bingo! Bush was bad, Obama is worse, next president will be even worse yet, because borrowing and spending will snowball and ultimately take down everything in its path.


Most likely true. True, because nobody is going to vote for a candidate who's campaign slogan is,
"The **** storm starts with me."
But that's what we need. Get it over with. Stop and pick up that can, instead of kicking it down the road, and open it up. Open it up even though we all know Pandora is in there.

[sappstuf]

Here is another Dem claiming we don't have a spending problem..

lAWT6TnsY9A#!

Senator... You apparently missed this sign while driving to work.

http://usercontent.s3.amazonaws.com/editorial/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/screen-shot-2011-11-10-at-111923-pmthursdaynovember-10-282x300.png

[diverdog]

I actually do not disagree. It still doesn't give you a pass for dragging Bush up instead of addressing what is going on currently.

The dirty little secret is we have reached the endpoint of the great Keynesian experiment began in the 30's. Nothing and nobody can stop the consequences of the moronic actions by the government over the past 75 years. I think it is poetic justice that this is all coming to a head on the 100th birthday of the Federal Reserve and Federal Income Tax.

fanin:

We still have a revenue problem. If tax revenues were at 22% GDP the deficit would be a third less. The economy grows at 3% you can cut it even more. No disagreeing we need to cut spending but the real quick solution is to get our economy cranking again. So far I would give Obama a D on that front.

[sappstuf]

fanin:

We still have a revenue problem. If tax revenues were at 22% GDP the deficit would be a third less. The economy grows at 3% you can cut it even more. No disagreeing we need to cut spending but the real quick solution is to get our economy cranking again. So far I would give Obama a D on that front.

I don't think tax revenues have ever been that high have they?

[pphilfran]

We have only been over 20% a half dozen times or so...20.6% was Clintons peak

[pphilfran]

Actually three times...20.9% in 1944 was highest ever

[Sooner5030]

I wish the media would do a better job of discussing budgets, outlays and revenues. It seems like their major focus is ensuring that they have a person from each side give their talking points. My guess is that most the producers and reporters don't fully understand the process in the first place.

Along with more business classes like accounting and finance I wish our schools would teach just one class on public administration and budgeting.

Some other ideas:

-have two separate budgets: operating and capital

-totally separate FICA from the consolidated financial statements. There were too many years where we ignored major problems due to our unified surpluses (due to excess FICA revenues) even though we had a operating deficit....see late 1990s.

[diverdog]

I wish the media would do a better job of discussing budgets, outlays and revenues. It seems like their major focus is ensuring that they have a person from each side give their talking points. My guess is that most the producers and reporters don't fully understand the process in the first place.

Along with more business classes like accounting and finance I wish our schools would teach just one class on public administration and budgeting.

Some other ideas:

-have two separate budgets: operating and capital

-totally separate FICA from the consolidated financial statements. There were too many years where we ignored major problems due to our unified surpluses (due to excess FICA revenues) even though we had a operating deficit....see late 1990s.

Yep.

[soonercruiser]

Bingo! Bush was bad, Obama is worse, next president will be even worse yet, because borrowing and spending will snowball and ultimately take down everything in its path. No Party wants to balance a budget. If they did it would happen. Cowardly politicians on both sides were unwilling to take what a dozen years ago would have been short term pain to put the US's financial house in order to preserve their cushy existence. Any solution at this point will involve extreme pain and massive social unrest.

Sorry! The American people did not vote for "courage" in 2012!
We "get the gobment that we deserve"!
There was a clear distinction in approach....and fiscal responsibility was rejected!
Too bad.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Here is another Dem claiming we don't have a spending problem..

lAWT6TnsY9A#!

Senator... You apparently missed this sign while driving to work.

http://usercontent.s3.amazonaws.com/editorial/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/screen-shot-2011-11-10-at-111923-pmthursdaynovember-10-282x300.png

reality is 50 miles to the left?

[soonercruiser]

Remind me of a Bible verse...
"Hark, the mindless Demoncrat sings"!