And You Thought Bush Was Bad On Civil Rights

[FaninAma]

http://news.yahoo.com/rare-look-obama-decides-send-drones-kill-americans-031832960.html

Talk about your proverbial slippery slope.

[yermom]

if you aren't a terrorist, you don't have anything to worry about

[olevetonahill]

if you aren't a terrorist, you don't have anything to worry about

According to the Nazi's if ya weren't a Jew you didn't have anything to worry about.

[sappstuf]

if you aren't a terrorist, you don't have anything to worry about

Unless that one official doesn't like you....


In other words, an "informed, high-level" official can order the killing of any American citizen that was "recently" involved in threatening "activities." As Isikoff points out, the memo fails to define both of those terms.

[yermom]

perhaps you guys forget about my nickname for Obama, and love for sarcasm

[olevetonahill]

perhaps you guys forget about my nickname for Obama, and love for sarcasm

Well I know yer a sarcastic sonsabitch But whats yer nickname fer him ?:courage:

[Midtowner]

I don't know what it is, but this policy seems to have been someone's agenda to advance regardless of who the President is. Shame on Obama for not taking a principled stand against this though.

The United States should be better than this.

[yermom]

Well I know yer a sarcastic sonsabitch But whats yer nickname fer him ?:courage:

W 2.0

[olevetonahill]

W 2.0

:stupid::smile:

[FaninAma]

if you aren't a terrorist, you don't have anything to worry about
And who determines if you are a terrorist? A jury of your peers or the CIA? It makes me feel all warm and toasty inside to think the CIA and other intelligence agencies would be deciding my fate.

[yermom]

that's basically what i said about the Patriot Act

[olevetonahill]

Well since I know how to assemble a bomb, and a few other things, They could send a drone after me anyday.
So if Yall dont hear from for several days You will be able to figure they GOT me :upset:

[Midtowner]

This could easily be cleared up by the government simply issuing the notice of a hearing to the party who doesn't want to be killed and allowing them a chance to appear in front of some judicial official to explain themselves. Of course they could be promptly arrested and transferred to Gitmo, but some sort of due process has to happen here. I don't know what, but if the Constitution means anything, this can't be happening.

[cleller]

The only thing I find controversial about the policy is the response it elicits. Under a Repub pres, the Washington Monument would probably be awash in protestors over this, with the Networks setting up mobile newsrooms.

[sappstuf]

I don't know what it is, but this policy seems to have been someone's agenda to advance regardless of who the President is. Shame on Obama for not taking a principled stand against this though.

The United States should be better than this.

Of course it isn't Obama's fault. As President he is just an innocent bystander....

[Harry Beanbag]

I don't know what it is, but this policy seems to have been someone's agenda to advance regardless of who the President is. Shame on Obama for not taking a principled stand against this though.

The United States should be better than this.

I think it's fairly obvious Obama doesn't have any principles to stand on.

[olevetonahill]

Obammy is just a Puppet in the control of the Illuminati :upset:

[diverdog]

War is a bad business. As far as I am concerned the public knows far far to much about our counter terrorist efforts.

[FaninAma]

War is a bad business. As far as I am concerned the public knows far far to much about our counter terrorist efforts.

More civil liberties have been taken away in the name of national security than from all other causes combined. National security is just an excuse for a government to operate secretly and without accountbility. And all this time I thought you were a liberal.

[diverdog]

More civil liberties have been taken away in the name of national security than from all other causes combined. National security is just an excuse for a government to operate secretly and without accountbility. And all this time I thought you were a liberal.

Take up arms against the US and you have given up your rights as far as I am concerned.

[C&CDean]

Well since I know how to assemble a bomb, and a few other things, They could send a drone after me anyday.
So if Yall dont hear from for several days You will be able to figure they GOT me :upset:

If they hit the shack with a drone the assploding OVJ mushroom cloud will be visible from Uranus.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I had a cloud visible from my anus earlier

[C&CDean]

I had a cloud visible from my anus earlier

I was there. Remember?

[TAFBSooner]

"Bad on Civil Rights" correlates more with the current year than with the "D" or "R" behind POTUS' name.

Obama worse than Bush the Lesser
Bush the Lesser worse than Clinton
Clinton worse than Bush the Greater
. . . and Bush the Greater was the guy who defended the jack-booted thugs.

[yermom]

Take up arms against the US and you have given up your rights as far as I am concerned.

sure, then shoot/bomb them in the act. otherwise, it seems like a good idea to prove it somehow

[Midtowner]

War is a bad business. As far as I am concerned the public knows far far to much about our counter terrorist efforts.

I strongly disagree. I don't trust the government to do what's right. In fact, here, the government is pretty out in the open about doing the wrong thing.

[C&CDean]

I strongly disagree. I don't trust the government to do what's right. In fact, here, the government is pretty out in the open about doing the wrong thing.

You ain't real bright on the military/intelligence biz.

If the government announced what they did on the 9pm news we'd all be speaking russian/arabic/german/korean/chinese/something other than English and you'd be some jack-boot wearing thug's little bitch.

Covert operations are a necessary evil. By nature that means they need to be...covert? Besides, the general population is just too damned stupid to understand the big picture. Hell, they voted for Obama. That alone tells you they aren't smart enough to blow their nose or wipe their own asses.

[rainiersooner]

Well since I know how to assemble a bomb, and a few other things, They could send a drone after me anyday.
So if Yall dont hear from for several days You will be able to figure they GOT me :upset:

I'm pretty sure that's not something you have to worry about

[rainiersooner]

You ain't real bright on the military/intelligence biz.

If the government announced what they did on the 9pm news we'd all be speaking russian/arabic/german/korean/chinese/something other than English and you'd be some jack-boot wearing thug's little bitch.

Covert operations are a necessary evil. By nature that means they need to be...covert?

Bingo.

Except for the voting for Obama part! ;)

[C&CDean]

Bingo.

Except for the voting for Obama part! ;)

Well you get a free pass. I'm pretty sure they didn't have anyone but Obama on the ticket up in your neck of the woods.

[Wishboned]

Take up arms against the US and you have given up your rights as far as I am concerned.

If I ever take up arms against the US then that will be a moot point because they will have already taken my rights.

[rainiersooner]

Well you get a free pass. I'm pretty sure they didn't have anyone but Obama on the ticket up in your neck of the woods.

Not true. There is always a strong showing from some lesbian feminist poet vegan on the green party ticket. She's semi-hot in a science fiction kind of way, but a pain in the *** to talk to.

[olevetonahill]

Take up arms against the US and you have given up your rights as far as I am concerned.

Theres where we differ My friend. IF the US takes up arms against its citizens Then it has given up its rights to govern.

[diverdog]

Theres where we differ My friend. IF the US takes up arms against its citizens Then it has given up its rights to govern.

I meant in the context of terrorism and joining Jihad against the US.

[olevetonahill]

I meant in the context of terrorism and joining Jihad against the US.

Then with this Directive aint the Gov. Taking up ARMs against its Citizens?

We still have the Bill of rights to Protect us. Oh wait NO we dont

You say IF your a Terrorist, Then the Gov. can arbitrarily KILL you.
Who defines TERRORIST in this scenario?

[diverdog]

Then with this Directive aint the Gov. Taking up ARMs against its Citizens?

We still have the Bill of rights to Protect us. Oh wait NO we dont

You say IF your a Terrorist, Then the Gov. can arbitrarily KILL you.
Who defines TERRORIST in this scenario?

Raghead who teaches death to America. You know guys like Awlaki.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef015435cfc7db970c-600wi

[olevetonahill]

Raghead who teaches death to America. You know guys like Awlaki.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef015435cfc7db970c-600wi

I agree with you in theory. I just DONT agree with you in practice, I dont trust the Gov. be it GW Nor Obammy to make those decisions.
Remember I was from BEFORE 1984 , when that was Long in the future,

I trust em to a Point. I dont trust em much past that,

[Blue]

I agree with you in theory. I just DONT agree with you in practice, I dont trust the Gov. be it GW Nor Obammy to make those decisions.
Remember I was from BEFORE 1984 , when that was Long in the future,

I trust em to a Point. I dont trust em much past that,

Our civil liberties are being taken away at a breakneck clip. It's always been this way, but the last 20 years have been crazy. The right/left paradigm has blinded everybody to the fact that our govt no longer has American interests in mind. I'd say in about 10-20 years, it will be 1984.

[olevetonahill]

Our civil liberties are being taken away at a breakneck clip. It's always been this way, but the last 20 years have been crazy. The right/left paradigm has blinded everybody to the fact that our govt no longer has American interests in mind. I'd say in about 10-20 years, it will be 1984.

Thank God Ill be dead

[diverdog]

Our civil liberties are being taken away at a breakneck clip. It's always been this way, but the last 20 years have been crazy. The right/left paradigm has blinded everybody to the fact that our govt no longer has American interests in mind. I'd say in about 10-20 years, it will be 1984.

What rights have been taken away from you?

[FaninAma]

What rights have been taken away from you?
How about execution without the involvement of legal representation , a jury of your peers or due process.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/robert-gibbs-anwar-al-awlaki_n_2012438.html

[olevetonahill]

What rights have been taken away from you?

Have you read the "Patriot Act" ?

[diverdog]

How about execution without the involvement of legal representation , a jury of your peers or due process.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/robert-gibbs-anwar-al-awlaki_n_2012438.html

Seriously are you going to make this argument. At what point do we take action? If Obama had not killed him you guys on the right would have accused him of failing to protect America. The man was a top AQ operative and a sworn enemy of the US. I lose absolutely no sleep over his death.

Here is what he was accused of:

recruiting and preparing Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who tried but failed to bomb a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day 2009
overseeing a failed plot to blow up two US-bound cargo planes in 2010 with explosives hidden in printer cartridges
encouraging US Maj Nidal Malik Hasan to carry out the 2009 US army base killings in Fort Hood, Texas which killed 13 people
inspiring the man who carried out a failed bombing in New York's Times Square in 2010
inspired a British women to stab her MP Stephen Timms over his support for the war in Iraq
plotting to use poisons including cyanide and ricin in attacks
repeatedly called for the killing of Americans, saying in a 2010 video online that they were from the "party of devils"

[diverdog]

Have you read the "Patriot Act" ?

yes and given the fact that we have not been attacked since then I am all for it? Show me how it has harmed a single person on this board.

[Blue]

What rights have been taken away from you?

Well lets see...as of today the govt has the right to turn me into an ash heap at their whim by some flying machine gun. Our freedom of speech is under attack(You cant say anything bad about stuff that you think is morally wrong or you are a bigot). Our right to unlawful searches and seizures has been rendered moot (for your own protection of course). The 2nd amendment is under attack (for your own protection of course).

I could go on. Fact of the matter is though that we are all born into this world guaranteed nothing. You have to make the best of it. But to act like civilization will ever be "fixed" and that more laws equal more security is absolutely idiotic and dangerous. You want a brave new world? Fine. Just don't expect all of us to go singing happy songs on our way to the reeducation camps. You think thats a crazy thing to say, well then you don't know history. Man hasn't changed. Give them an inch and they'll take a/your yard. You're just a useless eater/human resource anyway.

[sappstuf]

Seriously are you going to make this argument. At what point do we take action? If Obama had not killed him you guys on the right would have accused him of failing to protect America. The man was a top AQ operative and a sworn enemy of the US. I lose absolutely no sleep over his death.
Here is what he was accused of:

recruiting and preparing Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who tried but failed to bomb a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day 2009
overseeing a failed plot to blow up two US-bound cargo planes in 2010 with explosives hidden in printer cartridges
encouraging US Maj Nidal Malik Hasan to carry out the 2009 US army base killings in Fort Hood, Texas which killed 13 people
inspiring the man who carried out a failed bombing in New York's Times Square in 2010
inspired a British women to stab her MP Stephen Timms over his support for the war in Iraq
plotting to use poisons including cyanide and ricin in attacks
repeatedly called for the killing of Americans, saying in a 2010 video online that they were from the "party of devils"

What about his 16 year old son that was born in Denver? Did he deserve summary execution 2 weeks after his father?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/05/16856963-american-drone-deaths-highlight-controversy?lite

[diverdog]

Well lets see...as of today the govt has the right to turn me into an ash heap at their whim by some flying machine gun. Our freedom of speech is under attack(You cant say anything bad about stuff that you think is morally wrong or you are a bigot). Our right to unlawful searches and seizures has been rendered moot (for your own protection of course). The 2nd amendment is under attack (for your own protection of course).

I could go on. Fact of the matter is though that we are all born into this world guaranteed nothing. You have to make the best of it. But to act like civilization will ever be "fixed" and that more laws equal more security is absolutely idiotic and dangerous. You want a brave new world? Fine. Just don't expect all of us to go singing happy songs on our way to the reeducation camps. You think thats a crazy thing to say, well then you don't know history. Man hasn't changed. Give them an inch and they'll take a/your yard. You're just a useless eater/human resource anyway.




No one has taken your freedom of speech away. That is a bull chit argument on your part. When was the last time you were searched, denied buying a weapon, had property seized or thrown in jail for saying something stupid? Never I suspect. Go on living in your little Glen Beck world and kiss my *** ****** bag.

[Blue]

No one has taken your freedom of speech away. That is a bull chit argument on your part. When was the last time you were searched, denied buying a weapon, had property seized or thrown in jail for saying something stupid? Never I suspect. Go on living in your little Glen Beck world and kiss my *** ****** bag.

Wow. That's a little hostile. Did I hit a nerve somewhere?

1. The TSA 2. Background checks that will eliminate half the pop who ever took an anti depressant. Not to mention a registry which comes right before confiscation. 3. Eminent Domain 4. Hate speech. Who decides whats hateful and inciteful?

Face it dip ****. You are owned.

[8timechamps]

I've watched enough YouTube videos of drone attacks to comfortably say that if you are a target of one, you'll never know. Given the current technology, a drone could fly a hellfire missile up your *** from 25,000 feet up. If you're lucky, you might see a split second of bright light before your appendages are in separate neighborhoods.

[diverdog]

Wow. That's a little hostile. Did I hit a nerve somewhere?

1. The TSA 2. Background checks that will eliminate half the pop who ever took an anti depressant. Not to mention a registry which comes right before confiscation. 3. Eminent Domain 4. Hate speech. Who decides whats hateful and inciteful?

Face it dip ****. You are owned.

No I have tried to have a respectful conversation with you. Was this directed at me? " Give them an inch and they'll take a/your yard. You're just a useless eater/human resource anyway". Because I took the last part personally.

Eminent domain has been around forever. It is not something that popped up in the last twenty years. And yes there is abuse.

Beats me on your TSA example. But I seriously doubt that half the population who take antidepressants can't fly. That would eliminate most Mormon wives in Utah. And from everything I have read most Americans support an Israeli style airport security system which is far more restrictive than what we have and includes profiling.

Getting busted for hate speech has been around forever.

[diverdog]

What about his 16 year old son that was born in Denver? Did he deserve summary execution 2 weeks after his father?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/05/16856963-american-drone-deaths-highlight-controversy?lite

Sapp:

If he is in Yemen he is at risk of being killed.

I find it a little ironic that I am taking a harder line than you on this subject.

[Midtowner]

Seriously are you going to make this argument. At what point do we take action? If Obama had not killed him you guys on the right would have accused him of failing to protect America. The man was a top AQ operative and a sworn enemy of the US. I lose absolutely no sleep over his death.

Here is what he was accused of:

recruiting and preparing Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who tried but failed to bomb a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day 2009
overseeing a failed plot to blow up two US-bound cargo planes in 2010 with explosives hidden in printer cartridges
encouraging US Maj Nidal Malik Hasan to carry out the 2009 US army base killings in Fort Hood, Texas which killed 13 people
inspiring the man who carried out a failed bombing in New York's Times Square in 2010
inspired a British women to stab her MP Stephen Timms over his support for the war in Iraq
plotting to use poisons including cyanide and ricin in attacks
repeatedly called for the killing of Americans, saying in a 2010 video online that they were from the "party of devils"

Send the fella or his family or someone he can get in touch with some sort of notice that a warrant for his assassination by drone is about to issue and give him the opportunity for a hearing where he can appear and at least attempt to refute the evidence or submit to the legal process.

If we don't have some semblance of due process, even in extreme situations like this, we're saying that the Constitution is irrelevant when the government deems there to be an emergency. Go check out the bills passed by the Oklahoma legislature. Nearly every last one of 'em recites an "emergency" whereby they must go into effect immediately. If you allow the government to decide for itself when an emergency exists, the distinction will be abused.

[Ton Loc]

Sapp:

If he is in Yemen he is at risk of being killed.

I find it a little ironic that I am taking a harder line than you on this subject.

Its more than a little ironic. Its not like we're losing our rights more now than ever before. Jesus, its like we forget that they locked up half the asians once, what it was like to be black before the 70's, or a thousand other examples before today.

Who really thinks the government didn't already do this shady crap? At least they wrote it down this time.

And someone picks Anwar al-Awlaki as the first example. really?

[Midtowner]

Its more than a little ironic. Its not like we're losing our rights more now than ever before. Jesus, its like we forget that they locked up half the asians once, what it was like to be black before the 70's, or a thousand other examples before today.

Who really thinks the government didn't already do this shady crap? At least they wrote it down this time.

And someone picks Anwar al-Awlaki as the first example. really?

And the Japanese were afforded due process and appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court.

Big difference there.

[TAFBSooner]

yes and given the fact that we have not been attacked since then I am all for it? Show me how it has harmed a single person on this board.

Were you all for it from when it was passed in 2001 (when Congress wasn't given the time to read it) until January 2009?

[TAFBSooner]

Sapp:

If he is in Yemen he is at risk of being killed.

The Middle East is a dangerous place for US citizens. Before Bush the Lesser and Obama, US citizens weren't in danger of being killed by their own government without due process of law, and especially just because they were related to someone the Government didn't like.



I find it a little ironic that I am taking a harder line than you on this subject.

You have to ask yourself if you identify as a liberal or as a Democrat.

[TAFBSooner]

And the Japanese were afforded due process and appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court.

Big difference there.

At least some of the Japanese were still around to accept apologies after the fact.

[TAFBSooner]

Oh, by the way. Several posts above refer to the Government. This was done by the White House without benefit of checks and balances.

[TAFBSooner]

Seriously are you going to make this argument. At what point do we take action? If Obama had not killed him you guys on the right would have accused him of failing to protect America. The man was a top AQ operative and a sworn enemy of the US. I lose absolutely no sleep over his death.

Here is what he was accused of:

recruiting and preparing Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who tried but failed to bomb a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day 2009
overseeing a failed plot to blow up two US-bound cargo planes in 2010 with explosives hidden in printer cartridges
encouraging US Maj Nidal Malik Hasan to carry out the 2009 US army base killings in Fort Hood, Texas which killed 13 people
inspiring the man who carried out a failed bombing in New York's Times Square in 2010
inspired a British women to stab her MP Stephen Timms over his support for the war in Iraq
plotting to use poisons including cyanide and ricin in attacks
repeatedly called for the killing of Americans, saying in a 2010 video online that they were from the "party of devils"

as you say, "accused"

Here, though, "accused" means being named in a Government justification for the drone killing after the fact, not as part of the process due to American citizens.

[TAFBSooner]

diverdog, meet Joan Walsh:

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/05/when_liberals_ignore_injustice/

And yes, I hope the majority on here enjoys a good liberal-vs-Democrat argument :-)

[Turd_Ferguson]

diverdog, meet Joan Walsh:

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/05/when_liberals_ignore_injustice/

And yes, I hope the majority on here enjoys a good liberal-vs-Democrat argument :-)

Holy hell...here we go with another "I'm the smartest mother****er in the world" lib on the board...

[diverdog]

Were you all for it from when it was passed in 2001 (when Congress wasn't given the time to read it) until January 2009?

Yes. I also support the drone attacks under bush. My issue with Bush was Rumsfeld. Once he was gone I thought the did a good job of fighting AQ.

[SoonerProphet]

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/killing-americans-8065

"For centuries, civilized societies have understood that even wars must be fought according to rules, which have developed over time in response to changing realities. Rules are even more important in endless, murky wars such as the fight against Islamist terror groups. Currently, we're letting whomever is in the Oval Office pick and choose from among the existing rules, applying and redefining them based on his own judgment and that of his advisors. We can do better."

[diverdog]

The Middle East is a dangerous place for US citizens. Before Bush the Lesser and Obama, US citizens weren't in danger of being killed by their own government without due process of law, and especially just because they were related to someone the Government didn't like.



You have to ask yourself if you identify as a liberal or as a Democrat.

Neither. I am registered as unaffiliated. When it comes to wars I take an extremely hard line. Folks need to understand that terrorist use our infrastructure to attack us. Read how they do operational planning, activate sleeper cells, recruit, gather and transfer financial transactions. We have no choice in my opinion to monitor these activities.

[TAFBSooner]

If he is in Yemen he is at risk of being killed.



What kind of answer is this? The question is, are you comfortable with US killing *relatives* of people that the White House decides are a threat? Not that I'm OK with killing the father without due process, but you've at least made a case for that. But for killing his son you just crack wise?

Sounds like you're taking your cue from Robert Gibbs, who deflected the same question by blaming the older victim rather than the guy who ordered the hit.

[49r]

that's basically what i said about the Patriot Act

Interesting juxtaposition in this thread when compared to this thread (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?61862-Legality-of-Wiretaps) for example.

My how times change.

[FaninAma]

Seriously are you going to make this argument. At what point do we take action? If Obama had not killed him you guys on the right would have accused him of failing to protect America. The man was a top AQ operative and a sworn enemy of the US. I lose absolutely no sleep over his death.

Here is what he was accused of:

recruiting and preparing Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who tried but failed to bomb a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day 2009
overseeing a failed plot to blow up two US-bound cargo planes in 2010 with explosives hidden in printer cartridges
encouraging US Maj Nidal Malik Hasan to carry out the 2009 US army base killings in Fort Hood, Texas which killed 13 people
inspiring the man who carried out a failed bombing in New York's Times Square in 2010
inspired a British women to stab her MP Stephen Timms over his support for the war in Iraq
plotting to use poisons including cyanide and ricin in attacks
repeatedly called for the killing of Americans, saying in a 2010 video online that they were from the "party of devils"

I am talking about the 16 year old son who was also a US citizen. Do you really approve of his murder? Really?

As far as his father is concerned I am ambivalent to a certain extent because we are forced to take the CIA and government originated information fed to the media at face value. Sorry but I am not ready to do that. I don't know if he ever took up arms against the US or not. Additionally, I took the liberty of bolding the key word in your post.

Your stance is really disappointing and suprising although it does seem you are in favor of a bigger, more intrusive government in all areas including taxes, entitlements, and apparently civil liberties. So I guess you are pretty consistent after all.

[FaninAma]

Sapp:

If he is in Yemen he is at risk of being killed.

By his own country?


I find it a little ironic that I am taking a harder line than you on this subject.

No it's not. See my previous post.

[picasso]

If you were a whiney bitch about Bush's wire tapping and you have no problem with this then you're an ideological hypocrite.
Even the galldamn ACLU doesn't like it.

[diverdog]

Dude, get a grip! I am talking about the 16 year old son who was also a US citizen. Do you really approve of his murder? Really?

As far as his father is concerned I am ambivalent to a certain extent because we are forced to take the CIA and information fed to the media at face value. Sorry but I am not ready to do that. I don't know if he ever took up arms against the US or not.

Your stance is really disappointing and suprising although it does seem you are in favor of a bigger, more intrusive government in all areas including taxes, entitlements, and apparently civil liberties. So I guess you are pretty consistent after all.

I do not know what their reason for targeting might have been. What I do know is there is a lot of vetting that goes on before we pull the trigger. I think our military, CIA and NSA do a good job.

[diverdog]

What kind of answer is this? The question is, are you comfortable with US killing *relatives* of people that the White House decides are a threat? Not that I'm OK with killing the father without due process, but you've at least made a case for that. But for killing his son you just crack wise?

Sounds like you're taking your cue from Robert Gibbs, who deflected the same question by blaming the older victim rather than the guy who ordered the hit.

Not a wise crack at all. He is in a combat zone for the US and he exposed himself to being killed. From what I read we were targeting a senior AQ operative (Ibrahim al-Banna),and the kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have no idea if he was even targeted. You of all people should know we have very strict ROE and I am sure this strike was vetted.

[TAFBSooner]

I have no idea if he was even targeted. You of all people should know we have very strict ROE and I am sure this strike was vetted.

That's very trusting of you.

[diverdog]

That's very trusting of you.

Do you fly on AWAC's?

[TAFBSooner]

Do you fly on AWAC's?

No, I'm not in Operations.

Far enough from it that this may be a stupid question - does AWACs get involved in CIA drone flights?

[diverdog]

No, I'm not in Operations.

Far enough from it that this may be a stupid question - does AWACs get involved in CIA drone flights?

Sorry just asking.

i know a few years ago they were in the test phase of flying drones from AWACs. Not sure what the outcome was. They were also testing a program using bistatic radar where the transmitter (the AWACS) and the receiver (the UAV) are in different locations. So they are moving in that direction.

[TAFBSooner]

Sorry just asking.

i know a few years ago they were in the test phase of flying drones from AWACs. Not sure what the outcome was. They were also testing a program using bistatic radar where the transmitter (the AWACS) and the receiver (the UAV) are in different locations. So they are moving in that direction.

I meant my question might be stupid, so no worries. And thanks for the answer.

Anyway, the op that took out the 16-yo is wrong on many levels.

If they were taking him out because of his father's actions, that's just abhorrent.

If he was collateral damage (known or not), that's wrong from a civil liberties viewpoint, but it's also bad strategy. The more innocent people we kill, or retro-define as insurgents becasue they were in the target zone, the more we drive their friends and family to join the enemy. Al-Awlaki himself was in this category - he was moderate in the years after 9/11, but took up anti-US jihad after we killed so many innocent Muslims.

[olevetonahill]

There aint no "Innocent" Mooslums, Just those who aint blowed up anyone yet. :victorious:

[Blue]

Some military doosh on CNN just called for a drone strike on this cop killer out in California. Thats just what we need.

[StoopTroup]

Some military doosh on CNN just called for a drone strike on this cop killer out in California. Thats just what we need.

Maybe you saw someone different than me but I thought they guy meant the drone would reduce risking another human life and help locate the guy. I never heard him call for a drone strike.

[StoopTroup]

I meant my question might be stupid, so no worries. And thanks for the answer.

Anyway, the op that took out the 16-yo is wrong on many levels.

If they were taking him out because of his father's actions, that's just abhorrent.

If he was collateral damage (known or not), that's wrong from a civil liberties viewpoint, but it's also bad strategy. The more innocent people we kill, or retro-define as insurgents becasue they were in the target zone, the more we drive their friends and family to join the enemy. Al-Awlaki himself was in this category - he was moderate in the years after 9/11, but took up anti-US jihad after we killed so many innocent Muslims.

I watched most of the hearing on the new CIA Director today and he expressed that Americans need to understand that when you leave the US and declare you are an Al Queda operative or support Al Queda, you need to understand that you have decided to give up your rights as an American. Your rights to Life, Liberty and the American Way isn't going to be important if your Father is a known Al Queda Target. He went on to say that if you are involved with Helping Al Queda or are Al Queda....you do have the right and opportunity to give yourself up right up until the time of your death or capture.

[Blue]

Maybe you saw someone different than me but I thought they guy meant the drone would reduce risking another human life and help locate the guy. I never heard him call for a drone strike.

I mean I know its coming, but do we really need flying drones everywhere in our skies?

[StoopTroup]

I mean I know its coming, but do we really need flying drones everywhere in our skies?

I think the Constitution protects you from them. Something about using the Military on our own people? It's why I mentioned that if you leave the US you should take the time to stop in at one of our Embassies when you get there. I believe the State Dept even suggests you let them know where you are going before your trip in case you are going to a place we might have problems with. Of course if you are going to Grand Caymen to dive/scuba, you might not need to check in but if you are going Gold Prospecting in Mali...you might want to check in?

[Blue]

Was that a joke? Wher ya been all week. Not in this thread apparently.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I think the Constitution protects you from them. Something about using the Military on our own people?

cyK_ubfTwwE

[StoopTroup]

Been busier than hell. I was off yesterday and today but still had some projects to help the kids with. I'm making a Circuit Board tester for one of the kids Science Classes. I probably went overboard. Radio Shack still has some really cool stuff.

[StoopTroup]

cyK_ubfTwwE

I do believe that the whole POTUS thing is covered in what I saw. Sorry I didn't include all the details for ya Turd. Like I said, Ive been busy.

FYI, my little Brother graduated from OU in 95 and James Garner was the Speaker and Boren gave him an Honoary Doctorate. Was very cool and good times. We all got an Okie Sunburn that day too.