OU Approves State of the Art Rowing Training Facility

[FaninAma]

I think OU is poised to become a power in rowing. The facilities at the Oklahoma River are world class and this new facility will put OU at the top of the collegiate rowing scene.

http://www.soonersports.com/sports/w-rowing/spec-rel/012913aab.html

[Curly Bill]

A power in rowing? Really...I just read that?

[C&CDean]

Fanin has OU varsity athletes in the family. I'd be prouder than punch too.

CB: **** off dip****.

[Lott's Bandana]

Viersen Gymnastics Center remodel...check.

New dorm for Athletic Department...check.

Free admission to the Fred Jones University of Oklahoma Museum of Art...check.

New Rowing Training Center...check.


Joe Castiglione should run the dayum country, not just the OU AD.
I guarantee you DB would lend a hand...


EDIT:
Tennis Facility...check.
Soccer Complex...check.
LDM Field remodel...check.

[C&CDean]

****ty football team...check heh

[Curly Bill]

Yeah! Let's get some state of the art football players and coaches up in this place! :)

[hvhurricane]

What a complete waste of money.

[Lott's Bandana]

What a complete waste of money.

Consider this Hurricane...

Crew and rowing athletes tend to come from affluent High Schools with wealthy(er) parents. See where I'm going with this?

[C&CDean]

Consider this Hurricane...

Crew and rowing athletes tend to come from affluent High Schools with wealthy(er) parents. See where I'm going with this?

Nah, he's not that smart.

[FaninAma]

What a complete waste of money.

Rowing is Boren's baby. As long as he is the top guy he will support the program. Plus, with the Oklahoma River and the facilities already in place thanks to Devon and Chesapeake, it would be silly to not to have an OU rowing program. Plus, if OU ever moves to the PAC-12 or Big-10 almost all of those schools have rowing programs as do the Ivy League schools.

I think with Boren it is a prestige issue and in line with what he is trying to do with the University's reputation.

Dean, thanks for the comments. You and Lisa need to come to the OU Invitational in early March and think about going to Austin and maybe even SF for those meets with all the Pac 12 and Big 10 schools. They usually draw about 15,000 spectators in the California meets. BTB, make sure Lisa keeps us up to date on Luke. We think about him every day.

LOtt's Bandana, a lot of the money for the program is being contributed privately(Devon, Chesapeake). Also, OCU and UCO have NCAA(Div II) programs and Texas, West Virginia, KSU and KU have D-1 programs in the Big 12. The women compete in both the Big 12 and Conference USA. Their main competition is Texas and Tennessee whom they have already beat in fall competition. I think it is cool that once this training center is completed OU's facilities will blow away everybody's facilities save couple on the West Coast.

And the neat thing is the OU varsity eight is on a 3 race win streak over Texas and none of our boats have ever been beaten by Alabama in the past 4 years.

[Lott's Bandana]

Rowing is Boren's baby. As long as he is the top guy he will support the program. Plus, with the Oklahoma River and the facilities already in place thanks to Devon and Chesapeake, it would be silly to not to have an OU rowing program. Plus, if OU ever moves to the PAC-12 or Big-10 almost all of those schools have rowing programs as do the Ivy League schools.

I think with Boren it is a prestige issue and in line with what he is trying to do with the University's reputation.

Dean, thanks for the comments. You and Lisa need to come to the OU Invitational in early March and think about going to Austin and maybe even SF for those meets with all the Pac 12 and Big 10 schools. They usually draw about 15,000 spectators in the California meets. BTB, make sure Lisa keeps us up to date on Luke. We think about him every day.

LOtt's Bandana, a lot of the money for the program is being contributed privately(Devon, Chesapeake). Also, OCU and UCO have NCAA(Div II) programs and Texas, West Virginia, KSU and KU have D-1 programs in the Big 12. The women compete in both the Big 12 and Conference USA. Their main competition is Texas and Tennessee whom they have already beat in fall competition. I think it is cool that once this training center is completed OU's facilities will blow away everybody's facilities save couple on the West Coast.

And the neat thing is the OU varsity eight is on a 3 race win streak over Texas and none of our boats have ever been beaten by Alabama in the past 4 years.


I was fortunate to have worked with Rand on the boathouse projects and stood in the finish tower outside on a beautiful day when the Chesapeake crews were on the water.

This is one venue where an East/West attitude makes sense, unlike what our friends to the north have.

[tycat947]

Consider this Hurricane...

Crew and rowing athletes tend to come from affluent High Schools with wealthy(er) parents. See where I'm going with this?

I doubt it!

[Eielson]

We put 6.5 million into a rowing facility? I hope Devon and Chesapeake donated quite a bit.

[FaninAma]

We put 6.5 million into a rowing facility? I hope Devon and Chesapeake donated quite a bit.

Don't worry, they did.And by "we" I am pretty sure it doesn't include you. They also donated a lot of money to UCO to build their boathouse and training facilities. It seems like some corporate entities in the state are able to think about something other than football. You know, I also heard the University built an awesome natural history museum a few years ago. How dare they spend money on something other than football.

The rowing program is far less of a drain on OU's athletic budget then the men's baseball team and I would even say the men's basketball team over the past few sub-par years that program has had.

It just amazes me that whenever I post something about the rowing program and the unique attraction OKC has that a lot of other cities don't have the neanderthals start pouring out of the woodwork. If you've never been to a rowing regatta at the Okahoma River you have no room to comment on this.

Anf BTW Dean, I forgot to say that what the girls are doing pales in comparison to what your son is doing.

[tycat947]

Don't worry, they did.And by "we" I am pretty sure it doesn't include you. They also donated a lot of money to UCO to build their boathouse and training facilities. It seems like some corporate entities in the state are able to think about something other than football. You know, I also heard the University built an awesome natural history museum a few years ago. How dare they spend money on something other than football.

The rowing program is far less of a drain on OU's athletic budget then the men's baseball team and I would even say the men's basketball team over the past few sub-par years that program has had.

It just amazes me that whenever I post something about the rowing program and the unique attraction OKC has that a lot of other cities don't have the neanderthals start pouring out of the woodwork. If you've never been to a rowing regatta at the Okahoma River you have no room to comment on this.

Anf BTW Dean, I forgot to say that what the girls are doing pales in comparison to what your son is doing.

Please don't let a few people that are so unhappy with their lives detract from posting news about rowing, softball, baseball, gymnastics, etc. I'm thrilled that this facility is going to be built on campus for training. I want OU to win EVERY competition possible, whether athletic or academic! Thanks for keeping us informed! BTW, do you know the status of the OU boathouse in OKC?

[Curly Bill]

Please don't let a few people that are so unhappy with their lives detract from posting news about rowing, softball, baseball, gymnastics, etc. I'm thrilled that this facility is going to be built on campus for training. I want OU to win EVERY competition possible, whether athletic or academic! Thanks for keeping us informed! BTW, do you know the status of the OU boathouse in OKC?

Because someone doesn't fawn over rowing they're unhappy with their lives? That's a pretty big reach there.

[Curly Bill]

From your last post and your previous one as well I think you're just trying too hard.

[FaninAma]

CB, it is understandable that people who have never seen a rowing event and were not aware that OKC had a primier rowing venue would not be excited over this development. That said, it still doesn't mean that they should come to a thread that was started to share information with people who are intersted and denigrate the program as a waste of time and money. While it is rude I would not infer they were unhappy with their lives....although it does puzzle me as to their motivation. If they have concerns that the rowing program is hurting some other program or activity at OU I would be happy to address that. Otherwise I don't see the point.

I am admittedly biased about the subject because I have 2 daughters who walked on to the program. In fact, they hand out very few scholarships. Most of their recruits are preferred walkons from out of state(a few are instate) who have to come in and prove themselves before they earn a scholarship. Out of a varsity squad of 30 rowers only about 8 have earned scholarships. The rest of the crew have no scholarships but still dedicate about 20+ hours a week to conditioning and workouts including getting up at 5:30 every morning to bus to the river in OKC.

I had never watched a rowing race in person until my daughters were in the OU program. It is a reallly great experience. The venues are usually held in very scenic locations(Lady Bird Lake in Austin, the bay in San Diego, the Smokey Mountains in Tennessee) and in the older regattas they are attended very well.

The spring sprint season is a blast becausse the races are basically 2000 meter sprints and they are very competitive with most being decided by a few seconds. In the San Diego regatta there are about 150 teams form all over the country and there is a race about every 10 minutes for 8 hours over 2 days. About 10K people attend that regatta and they have a ton of corporate sponsors. Hopefully the events OU holds in OKC get to that point.

[hvhurricane]

Don't worry, they did.And by "we" I am pretty sure it doesn't include you. They also donated a lot of money to UCO to build their boathouse and training facilities. It seems like some corporate entities in the state are able to think about something other than football. You know, I also heard the University built an awesome natural history museum a few years ago. How dare they spend money on something other than football.

The rowing program is far less of a drain on OU's athletic budget then the men's baseball team and I would even say the men's basketball team over the past few sub-par years that program has had.

It just amazes me that whenever I post something about the rowing program and the unique attraction OKC has that a lot of other cities don't have the neanderthals start pouring out of the woodwork. If you've never been to a rowing regatta at the Okahoma River you have no room to comment on this.

Anf BTW Dean, I forgot to say that what the girls are doing pales in comparison to what your son is doing.


You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the athletic budget. The men's basketball team makes money. If you want to talk about the WBB program then that is a different story. They are a huge drain, by far the largest of all sports, to the athletic budget. I haven't seen the rowing budget yet, but I am quite sure they lose a tremendous amount of money. A lot of my disdain for this project has to do with the fact the athletic department refuses to spend more money on the baseball program. Yes, they have spent some money on L. Dale park, but it still needs a lot of work to be considered one of the better parks in the conference.

[FaninAma]

Hv, you can discuss the subject without being such an ***. I am pretty sure the men's baseball program is a bigger money loser than the rowing team. So the baseball team deserves the money more than the women's programs because?

I guess the rowing program should not accept the support from the corporate sponsors and University supporters who are trying to promote the Oklahoma River projects and the sports training facilities being built in OKC. I bet you didn't even know there is a new Olympic rowing and kayaking facility being built there. I commend Boren for fostering OU's connections with the corporations who are making these projects a priority.

It just sounds like you dislike the women's athletic programs in general. Maybe Golloway should do a better job of getting some corporate donations for the baseball program and then you wouldn't be whining so much about the women's program.

But thanks so much for crapping all over a thread that was supposed to be about touting a positive development in OU athletics.

[Eielson]

Don't worry, they did.And by "we" I am pretty sure it doesn't include you. They also donated a lot of money to UCO to build their boathouse and training facilities. It seems like some corporate entities in the state are able to think about something other than football. You know, I also heard the University built an awesome natural history museum a few years ago. How dare they spend money on something other than football.

The rowing program is far less of a drain on OU's athletic budget then the men's baseball team and I would even say the men's basketball team over the past few sub-par years that program has had.

It just amazes me that whenever I post something about the rowing program and the unique attraction OKC has that a lot of other cities don't have the neanderthals start pouring out of the woodwork. If you've never been to a rowing regatta at the Okahoma River you have no room to comment on this.

Anf BTW Dean, I forgot to say that what the girls are doing pales in comparison to what your son is doing.

A lot of strawman arguments in here. I never said we can't spend money on things other than football. I never said anything bad about the rowing program, either. 6.5 million dollars is a lot of money, though. You don't think the funding for this included me in any way? None of my tax money or tuition money is going into this? If that's true, then I don't care.

[FaninAma]

A lot of strawman arguments in here. I never said we can't spend money on things other than football. I never said anything bad about the rowing program, either. 6.5 million dollars is a lot of money, though. You don't think the funding for this included me in any way? None of my tax money or tuition money is going into this? If that's true, then I don't care.

My reply to you was probably a bit overly defensive but I think there are a lot of comments being made by other posters who are totally uniformed about the situation or who are just anti-women's sports in general. Money donated and budgeted to the rowing program was not taken away from the baseball team.

I am quite sure that OU wouldn't even have a rowing program if Devon and Cheasapeake hadn't decided that pouring money into the downtown OKC river project wasn't a direction they wanted to go. But they did and so, IMO, it was a no-brainer for Boren to create a rowing program as an outreach to these deep pocketed corporations. Apprently somebody with a lot of money thinks it is a priority to make OKC a priority rowing venue.

OU is actually a late entry into this picture. Cheasapeake has a boat house. Devon has a boathouse and a regatta viweing facility. There is an Olympic training facility on the river now. UCO has a boathouse on the river. OU is the last entity to announce their facility.

In 5 short years OU has become the primier rowing program in the Big 12 and is set to surpass Tennessee in the SEC and Conference USA. The next step will be to reach the level of the PAC12 and Big1G teams(of which only Michigan and Ohio St. currently rank ahead of OU).

[tycat947]

My reply to you was probably a bit overly defensive but I think there are a lot of comments being made by other posters who are totally uniformed about the situation or who are just anti-women's sports in general. Money donated and budgeted to the rowing program was not taken away from the baseball team.

I am quite sure that OU wouldn't even have a rowing program if Devon and Cheasapeake hadn't decided that pouring money into the downtown OKC river project wasn't a direction they wanted to go. But they did and so, IMO, it was a no-brainer for Boren to create a rowing program as an outreach to these deep pocketed corporations. Apprently somebody with a lot of money thinks it is a priority to make OKC a priority rowing venue.

OU is actually a late entry into this picture. Cheasapeake has a boat house. Devon has a boathouse and a regatta viweing facility. There is an Olympic training facility on the river now. UCO has a boathouse on the river. OU is the last entity to announce their facility.

In 5 short years OU has become the primier rowing program in the Big 12 and is set to surpass Tennessee in the SEC and Conference USA. The next step will be to reach the level of the PAC12 and Big1G teams(of which only Michigan and Ohio St. currently rank ahead of OU).

You're exactly right!

FaninAma, do you know the status of the boathouse in OKC? I was under the impression that funding had been secured well over a year ago and would soon start building. I think Aubrey McClendon (Chesapeake) was a significant donor on the project and I'm wondering if his troubles have slowed that down. Or did they want to complete the training facility first, before building the boat house? Thanks!

[FaninAma]

You're exactly right!

FaninAma, do you know the status of the boathouse in OKC? I was under the impression that funding had been secured well over a year ago and would soon start building. I think Aubrey McClendon (Chesapeake) was a significant donor on the project and I'm wondering if his troubles have slowed that down. Or did they want to complete the training facility first, before building the boat house? Thanks!

The plans for an OU boathouse have been on the table for a while now. There were rumors that they would partner with Devon but then decided they wanted their own facility. The decision to incorporate a training facility and subsequent need to secure private sources for funding are what slowed the plans down. I know the head coach really wanted an indoor rowing tank(Tulsa has one) which is imperative for being competitive with the top flight programs around the country.

[tycat947]

The plans for an OU boathouse have been on the table for a while now. There were rumors that they would partner with Devon but then decided they wanted their own facility. The decision to incorporate a training facility and subsequent need to secure private sources for funding are what slowed the plans down. I know the head coach really wanted an indoor rowing tank(Tulsa has one) which is imperative for being competitive with the top flight programs around the country.

Well, I agree that they should have the training facilities first. The river will be there and I'm sure which ever boathouse they are now using will continue to let them use until OUr's is built but the everyday training facilities would be imperative in my book. Very glad this project is moving forward!

Thanks!

[FaninAma]

Well, I agree that they should have the training facilities first. The river will be there and I'm sure which ever boathouse they are now using will continue to let them use until OUr's is built but the everyday training facilities would be imperative in my book. Very glad this project is moving forward!

Thanks!

You're welcome. I know rowing is not a natural fit with the state of Oklahoma but I think the program has everything to be hugely sucdcessful. And I have talked to a lot of people who had never watched the sport and they are big fans now. The venues are unparalleled. It is a pretty fast paced sport while at the same time the events turn out to be a fun social experience(the PAC-12 teams bring parts of their school bands and you get to meet fans from several different schools at one event)

[8timechamps]

Hv, you can discuss the subject without being such an ***. I am pretty sure the men's baseball program is a bigger money loser than the rowing team. So the baseball team deserves the money more than the women's programs because?

I guess the rowing program should not accept the support from the corporate sponsors and University supporters who are trying to promote the Oklahoma River projects and the sports training facilities being built in OKC. I bet you didn't even know there is a new Olympic rowing and kayaking facility being built there. I commend Boren for fostering OU's connections with the corporations who are making these projects a priority.

It just sounds like you dislike the women's athletic programs in general. Maybe Golloway should do a better job of getting some corporate donations for the baseball program and then you wouldn't be whining so much about the women's program.

But thanks so much for crapping all over a thread that was supposed to be about touting a positive development in OU athletics.

Ignore him/her. He talks out of his *** most of the time.

Anyway, I think it's an awesome facility. I don't follow college rowing at all, but anytime OU can improve it's facilities, I'm all for it.

I'd love to see the LNC redone (or even a new, smaller arena), but that's probably a pipedream at this point.

Thanks for the info Fanin.

[8timechamps]

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the athletic budget. The men's basketball team makes money. If you want to talk about the WBB program then that is a different story. They are a huge drain, by far the largest of all sports, to the athletic budget. I haven't seen the rowing budget yet, but I am quite sure they lose a tremendous amount of money. A lot of my disdain for this project has to do with the fact the athletic department refuses to spend more money on the baseball program. Yes, they have spent some money on L. Dale park, but it still needs a lot of work to be considered one of the better parks in the conference.

Well, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. The men's basketball team not only doesn't make money, it's terribly in the red.

For 2010-2011 This is what the men's basketball team did:

Revenue: $2,810,490
Expenses: $7,492,560
Deficit: -$4,682,000

I don't know if you're in the financial industry, or not, but I am, so I'll spell it out for you. Losing almost $5 million is not considered "making money".

As for the woman's team, they too run a deficit, but not as far in the hole as the men's team. So, you're wrong again, they are not the largest drain of all sports.

I've had discussions with you in the past, and you've pulled stuff out of your *** to support your argument. I'm not sure why I even bothered fact checking, other than your "whatever I say is the truth" mentality that irks me.

[badger]

Rowing's good for other sports, because it helps OU get Title IX compliant. In an era when a lot of schools have to dump non-revenue men's athletics because football hogs 85 men's scholarships, women's rowing gives schools 20 additional womens athletic scholarships. This helps OU keep their strong men's gymnastics program, their wrestling program and others. Women's rowing, under NCAA rules, allows more women's scholarships on a team than any other sport (track 18, equestrian 15, bball 15...).

So, even if you hate the sport (I personally thought it was pretty cool watching it at the olympics, but otherwise don't really follow the sport), fans of other sports can appreciate it for selfish purposes: Title IX compliance!

[hvhurricane]

Well, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. The men's basketball team not only doesn't make money, it's terribly in the red.

For 2010-2011 This is what the men's basketball team did:

Revenue: $2,810,490
Expenses: $7,492,560
Deficit: -$4,682,000

I don't know if you're in the financial industry, or not, but I am, so I'll spell it out for you. Losing almost $5 million is not considered "making money".

As for the woman's team, they too run a deficit, but not as far in the hole as the men's team. So, you're wrong again, they are not the largest drain of all sports.

I've had discussions with you in the past, and you've pulled stuff out of your *** to support your argument. I'm not sure why I even bothered fact checking, other than your "whatever I say is the truth" mentality that irks me.

When it comes to their financial statements that they turn in for Title IX purposes, OU uses some interesting mathematics. Somehow, they always find a way to come out with a zero balence. Even if you just took into account the attendance numbers that year, they make more than the announced figures in ticket sales alone. They have obviously not taken into account the donation figures as well. There is no way the basketball program loses five million dollars a year and there is absolutely no way the men's program "loses" more than the women's program. At least the rowing program got donations to help cover their initial investment. I promise you nobody is donating 6 million to the women's basketball prgram. The problem I have with Boren is he really doesn't know sports and how it can help the university. The football program is a monster that feeds itself. Boren plays no role in that whatsoever. He doesn't do anything to help the sports programs grow. I will use baseball as an example because it is my baby. Other than football and men's BB, it the sport that is national TV the most. They have put in a little money to make the park a little bit nicer, but it is nowhere near the top when it comes to the other parks in the Big 12 conference. Why not use his political skills to raise some money for the sport that is on national TV the most and use it as a recruiting tool? The same can be said for the men's basketball program. He has done nothing to improve the facilities in order to improve the gameday atmosphere. Yes, getting the donation for the rowing program is nice, but other than the parents of the girls, who is actually going to see these facilities? How will it enhance the growth of the university? He sees it as more of an art, and an ivy league type sport, so it is his baby. Well, I hate to tell him this, but OU is not an Ivy League school. Just because you give full rides to National Merit Scholars doesn't make you the Harvard of the Southwest. I am not against rowing, or OU adding it as a sport. I just don't understand Boren's philosophy on improving the facilities of the program's most visible sports and using them as a marketing tool for the university. I guess I do understand, though, to some extent as I have seen him at many football games and he has no idea what is going on. He is not a sports fan and really doesn't understand the business of college athletics.

[8timechamps]

When it comes to their financial statements that they turn in for Title IX purposes, OU uses some interesting mathematics. Somehow, they always find a way to come out with a zero balence. Even if you just took into account the attendance numbers that year, they make more than the announced figures in ticket sales alone. They have obviously not taken into account the donation figures as well. There is no way the basketball program loses five million dollars a year and there is absolutely no way the men's program "loses" more than the women's program. At least the rowing program got donations to help cover their initial investment. I promise you nobody is donating 6 million to the women's basketball prgram. The problem I have with Boren is he really doesn't know sports and how it can help the university. The football program is a monster that feeds itself. Boren plays no role in that whatsoever. He doesn't do anything to help the sports programs grow. I will use baseball as an example because it is my baby. Other than football and men's BB, it the sport that is national TV the most. They have put in a little money to make the park a little bit nicer, but it is nowhere near the top when it comes to the other parks in the Big 12 conference. Why not use his political skills to raise some money for the sport that is on national TV the most and use it as a recruiting tool? The same can be said for the men's basketball program. He has done nothing to improve the facilities in order to improve the gameday atmosphere. Yes, getting the donation for the rowing program is nice, but other than the parents of the girls, who is actually going to see these facilities? How will it enhance the growth of the university? He sees it as more of an art, and an ivy league type sport, so it is his baby. Well, I hate to tell him this, but OU is not an Ivy League school. Just because you give full rides to National Merit Scholars doesn't make you the Harvard of the Southwest. I am not against rowing, or OU adding it as a sport. I just don't understand Boren's philosophy on improving the facilities of the program's most visible sports and using them as a marketing tool for the university. I guess I do understand, though, to some extent as I have seen him at many football games and he has no idea what is going on. He is not a sports fan and really doesn't understand the business of college athletics.

I don't use whatever OU reports to the Big XII, and in the reports I use, the sum total doesn't equal zero. In fact, overall, the OU athletic department was left with just over $5 million in surplus from the 2010-2011 seasons (that's the most recent information available). And, yes, donations are taken into account. For 2010-2011, OU received $28,671,113 in contributions. Those figures are included.

Secondly, whether you want to believe it, or not, the men's basketball team loses more money than the women's team. It's actually pretty simple, if you think about it. For starters, Lon Kruger makes almost a million and a half more than Sherri Coale, and if you haven't noticed, there have been a whole lot of empty seats at the LNC lately. Even though the women haven't exactly filled the LNC, the cost to run the men's program exceeds the cost to run the woman's program. In 2010-11 it looked like this:

Men's
Expenses:$7,492,560

Women's
Expenses: :$3,746,280

Because the men's team cost more, even though they take in more than the women, they still have a higher deficit. If it makes you feel better to tell yourself the women's team loses more than the men's, and that there is "no way" the men's team lost $5 million+, be my guest. You stil won't be correct. I'm really not sure why you refuse to accept it though, 99% of schools lose money on basketball (men's and women's). There are a few exceptions (Duke, Indiana, etc.), but they are exceptions, and there are very few of them.

The one thing you are right about is that football is the money-maker for OU. No question about that. As for baseball, I would have absolutely no objection to facility improvements. OU should have the top quality at every venue, not only football. But, saying the rowing center is a waste of money is short sighted. If you want to complain that not enough money has been spent on the baseball facilities, I'd be right there with you. However, that doesn't change the fact that I am proud my school is improving/creating other facilities.

[hvhurricane]

Those figures do not include TV revenue, NCAA Tournament revenue, Soonersports TV revenue or donations made specifically to the men's basketball program. Yes, the women do average a nice crowd for their games, but they don't average near as many tickets sold as the men do. The men's games also cost more and the donation amount required is higher. That spreadsheet is just a summary of ticket revenue minus the cost to run the entire program. It is not a true itemization. The men's basketball program at OU definitely makes money.

[Eielson]

I have no objections to the claim that OU basketball loses money. It's pretty much common knowledge that football pays for all the other college sports, and that basketball runs at some of the highest deficits. It's a necessary expense that has indirect benefits for most schools, but I don't think anybody's argued that to this point, so I won't go into depth refuting that. Having said that, does anybody have the financial numbers for our Elite 8 run with Blake Griffin? This has been a down time for OU basketball, so it's going to be lower than usual. I'm not saying we were making money that year (in fact, I'm pretty confident we were at a deficit even then), but I'm curious to see how much better the numbers were. Also, does anybody know of any considerable donations we receive primarily due to basketball? I'd bet Blake has handed out some decent donations, but since we haven't produced very many pro players, I don't know if we get many big donations. There are probably quite a few smaller ones, though. Any Jack Nicholson-types?

[bluedogok]

Does the men's basketball figures include buyout payments to former coaches/staff? That can skew the numbers for any given yearly budget.

Of they add more women's scholarships could that possibly increase the number of scholarships for baseball?

[hvhurricane]

MoSt major D1 basketball programs make money. It is all about the TV deals. That is the reason men's teams make so much more than women's teams. I know for a fact that Tulsa makes money and they don't have near the support OU does.

Men's basketball gets 13 scholarships. WBB gets 15. The baseball program gets a little more than 12 scholarships to share among 25 players, and each player has to receive a certain percentage.

[picasso]

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the athletic budget. The men's basketball team makes money. If you want to talk about the WBB program then that is a different story. They are a huge drain, by far the largest of all sports, to the athletic budget. I haven't seen the rowing budget yet, but I am quite sure they lose a tremendous amount of money. A lot of my disdain for this project has to do with the fact the athletic department refuses to spend more money on the baseball program. Yes, they have spent some money on L. Dale park, but it still needs a lot of work to be considered one of the better parks in the conference.
Baseball? What a complete ****ing waste of money!

[hvhurricane]

Good comment. You make a very good point. I am glad you chose to get involved in this thread. You are obviously a great communicator.

[picasso]

Hey, I was just putting the shoe on the other hand.

I actually love baseball and was pretty pretty good at it.

[FaninAma]

There is a rowing regatta at the Oklahoma River this weekend. You need to check it out. As a group I think the women rowers are a combination of the strongest, best conditioned women athletes in( terms of endurance) on the OU campus. Try erging on a stationary rower for 6K and see what they do several times a week. To even have a chance of getting in the V-1 or V-2 boat you have to average a 2 minute flat split for every 500 meters in the 6K. In other words you have to row 6000 meters(3.75 miles) in under 24 minutes.

The last thing I wanted was for this thread to become a men's v. women's team argument.

[8timechamps]

Those figures do not include TV revenue, NCAA Tournament revenue, Soonersports TV revenue or donations made specifically to the men's basketball program. Yes, the women do average a nice crowd for their games, but they don't average near as many tickets sold as the men do. The men's games also cost more and the donation amount required is higher. That spreadsheet is just a summary of ticket revenue minus the cost to run the entire program. It is not a true itemization. The men's basketball program at OU definitely makes money.

Yes, those figures include TV revenue, tournament revenue and donations made specifically to each sport.

Why is it so hard to understand that? Why is it so hard to understand that the basketball program is in the red, just like 99% of every other school out there?

I'm not looking at a "spreadsheet", I am looking at the total revenue/expenditure report for 2010/2011, for the entire athletic department at the University.

None of this is made up, or an attempt to "hide" anything. These are the actual figures the university reports to the IRS. Unless OU is laundering money for the athletic department, and you know about that, then I don't know why you are struggling to understand this.

[8timechamps]

MoSt major D1 basketball programs make money. It is all about the TV deals. That is the reason men's teams make so much more than women's teams. I know for a fact that Tulsa makes money and they don't have near the support OU does.

Men's basketball gets 13 scholarships. WBB gets 15. The baseball program gets a little more than 12 scholarships to share among 25 players, and each player has to receive a certain percentage.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean when you say they "make money". Are you saying that if the university separated out the basketball program, and ran it as an individual entity, that it would make money? I don't even know how you could do that.

Ultimately, most D1 programs don't make money. There are programs that do generate enough revenue to be in the black, but those schools are few and far between (Duke, North Carolina, etc).

I have no idea whether Tulsa makes money or not, as they are a private institution and aren't subject to the same records release mandates as public schools.

[hvhurricane]

Let's do some simple math. In 2010 OU averaged 10,700 fans a game. With an average ticket price estimated at a low level of $25 a ticket, with 15 home games, works out to around 4 million alone in ticket revenue. That is just ticket revenue. That doesn't even take into account the TV money, shoe contracts, or donor contributions.

[8timechamps]

Let's do some simple math. In 2010 OU averaged 10,700 fans a game. With an average ticket price estimated at a low level of $25 a ticket, with 15 home games, works out to around 4 million alone in ticket revenue. That is just ticket revenue. That doesn't even take into account the TV money, shoe contracts, or donor contributions.

First, $25 is a hefty assumption. Attendance isn't the same as Paid Attendance, and how many of the 10,700 were actually paid (non students, media, etc)? The figure is probably closer to $1.5 - $2.0 mm.

You are simplifying it too much. If OU could take the gate sales and their portion of the TV revenue (and merchandising), minus only the coaching staff's salaries, then that'd be great, and there'd be roses and teddy bears for everyone.

That's not reality.

We can get into the actual figures, if you want, but suffice it to say that the cost to host an event at the LNC is not cheap. Labor, utilities and insurance alone take a pretty big bite out of the revenue. Add in scholarships, coaching salaries, travel expenses, misc. (uniforms, support staff, utilities, laundry, etc.), it's really not hard to see why there is no money being made.

What kind of shoe contract do you think exists? Any individual contract that Lon has with clothing/shoe manufacturers is his alone, and none of that goes to OU. You know that OU pays Nike, right? It's not the other way around. Also, don't confuse the TV contract that the Big XII has for football with the basketball deal. It's not even close to the same. OU doesn't get a check from ESPN or Fox, the money is paid into the conference, then distributed. It's almost impossible to know the exact numbers, as the conference distributes monies for all sports (earned from the networks) on a quarterly basis.

Again, if you were to take the men's program out and make it a separate entity, then there might be some way to make it profitable (not at the LNC and NOT with a coach like Lon), but as it stands now, it's in the red.

I analyze business finance for a living, this isn't new to me. I've followed the OU athletic department's finances for over two decades. I love my school, and I want it to make as much money as possible. But, as much as it may be hard for you to accept, the ONLY sport at OU that's in the black is football. It's very far in the black, and that's good for all the other sports, but it is alone in that regard.

[hvhurricane]

I don't doubt you know what you are talking about when it comes to financial figures. I just don't think you are recognizing the true revenue for the program. The attendance figures are actual paid tickets. It is not like they are giving away 3,000 tickets every night. They are making way more than 2 million a year in ticket revenue. And again, that doesn't include the donations made specifically to the men's basketball program. OU is not accounting the donations made to the SoonerClub that are specifically made to the basketball program. I don't know where they are accounting for it, but it is obviously is not in the basketball revenues.

Lets be real. OU is gaining revenue in the men's basketball program through Nike paying their coach hundreds of thousands of dollars so they don't have to pay him that money out of their own account. If Nike paid OU that money, and in turn OU gave the money to the coach themselves, then it would have to count as revenue and then a deduction. Nike then gives OU equipment, including uniforms, to the men's program. They do the same for the football program. OU gets credit for equipment in those two sports for a certain dollar amount, and if OU goes over that amount, they have to pay. When OU goes to the tournament and Nike gets them their newest shoe to wear, do you actually think OU had to pay for those shoes? No way. OU has a contract with Nike to purchase the rest of their equipment for the lower tier sports, so yes, OU ends up paying them a bill. They are not purchasing anything for the major two sports, though.

No, the TV contract is not what the football programs bring in, and it has to be shared within the Big 12, but it is a significant amount of money.

Yes, their is a lot of expenditures, mainly because OU charters to all of their games. However, if all of the specific revenue for the men's basketball program was accounted for correctly, the revenue would exceed the expenditures by a couple of million.

[8timechamps]

I don't doubt you know what you are talking about when it comes to financial figures. I just don't think you are recognizing the true revenue for the program. The attendance figures are actual paid tickets. It is not like they are giving away 3,000 tickets every night. They are making way more than 2 million a year in ticket revenue. And again, that doesn't include the donations made specifically to the men's basketball program. OU is not accounting the donations made to the SoonerClub that are specifically made to the basketball program. I don't know where they are accounting for it, but it is obviously is not in the basketball revenues.

Lets be real. OU is gaining revenue in the men's basketball program through Nike paying their coach hundreds of thousands of dollars so they don't have to pay him that money out of their own account. If Nike paid OU that money, and in turn OU gave the money to the coach themselves, then it would have to count as revenue and then a deduction. Nike then gives OU equipment, including uniforms, to the men's program. They do the same for the football program. OU gets credit for equipment in those two sports for a certain dollar amount, and if OU goes over that amount, they have to pay. When OU goes to the tournament and Nike gets them their newest shoe to wear, do you actually think OU had to pay for those shoes? No way. OU has a contract with Nike to purchase the rest of their equipment for the lower tier sports, so yes, OU ends up paying them a bill. They are not purchasing anything for the major two sports, though.

No, the TV contract is not what the football programs bring in, and it has to be shared within the Big 12, but it is a significant amount of money.

Yes, their is a lot of expenditures, mainly because OU charters to all of their games. However, if all of the specific revenue for the men's basketball program was accounted for correctly, the revenue would exceed the expenditures by a couple of million.

I do understand what you're saying. And you're right, in a simplistic form, the men's basketball team is in the black. However, in black and white, actual figures, they are in the red.

Take the whole Nike/Stoops or Nike/Lon thing for example. You're right, Nike is paying money to the coach that the university doesn't have to pay, and since it's commonplace at every big school, it's not a stretch to look at it that way. It's just the way it is. However, for actual reporting purposes, it's obviously not audited that way (I know you know this, just making the distinction).

Like I said, if you could somehow spin off the hoops program, and manage it as it's own entity, you would see a profit. Realistically, that's never going to happen. I realize that the men's program isn't a loss leader for the university. There are plenty of other sports above them on the list, but from a pure reported/audited standpoint, they don't make money.

I also know how the footwear contracts work with the schools, I just wasn't sure if you knew. I have talked to a lot of people that think it's all one sided, that Nike gives the school everything and the school never pays a dime. Like you said, the big sports carry the little ones.

The figure I threw out ($1.5 - $2.00mm) was just a "pull it out of my ***" number, in reality, it's closer to $3, but not as much as you might think. The last three years have been hard on OU (in basketball attendance). In fact, it's been down nationally, not just in Oklahoma. As you'd expect, if you can't win, people don't want to pay to watch your product. Even with the winning OU's men have done this year, regaining the attendance has come at a slow pace (some of that comes from the NBA competing for dollars). I see what is reported as average attendance, and I scratch my head...With the exception of maybe 3 games, you'd be hard pressed to find 7 or 8 thousand people at a home game, let alone 10+.

I won't argue that the men's program, in a vacuum, could be (and may be) profitable. But as a component of the whole, it's not.