And You Thought I Was Cynical: America Is A Rudderless Society

[FaninAma]

http://www.businessinsider.com/america-is-a-rudderless-society-adrift-on-a-sea-of-delusion-2012-7

I don't think I have ever seen such a gulf between the middle class and the lower and elite classes.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

This is, after all, the country where the Kardashians reign. Anything might happen.

I was thinking about the popularity of the Kardashians and they seem much like the Gabor sisters from 50 years ago.

What real talent did they have? They were raised to attract rich men and live the good life. And two of them became quite hollywood famous.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cSkmFk331NY/TrsUDtiXp1I/AAAAAAAABzc/7RVjYF8um3Q/s320/Gabor+sisters.jpg

[cleller]

http://www.businessinsider.com/america-is-a-rudderless-society-adrift-on-a-sea-of-delusion-2012-7

I don't think I have ever seen such a gulf between the middle class and the lower and elite classes.


So THAT'S the CHANGE we are getting.

[diverdog]

So THAT'S the CHANGE we are getting.

Do you think it would have changed under a Republican? This is what you get when corporations have more protection than individuals.

[FaninAma]

Do you think it would have changed under a Republican? This is what you get when corporations have more protection than individuals.
I cannot disagree. But please explain the cultural de-evolution of our society.

[diverdog]

I cannot disagree. But please explain the cultural de-evolution of our society.

One word: GREED

[XingTheRubicon]

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5343/gordongekkoc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/gordongekkoc.jpg/)

[KantoSooner]

Isn't it interesting that the disintegration of society, the mongrelization of society, the coming financial apocalypse, the failure of the young to properly respect their elders and hold up the standards of previous generations etc, etc, etc have been carped about middle aged and up establishment types since at least Old Testament times?
I wonder if Og bitched to Broomar that the kids today had no real appreciation of what it took to harness fire and that we'd all be cold in the dark soon as a result.

[OU68]

Isn't it interesting that the disintegration of society, the mongrelization of society, the coming financial apocalypse, the failure of the young to properly respect their elders and hold up the standards of previous generations etc, etc, etc have been carped about middle aged and up establishment types since at least Old Testament times?
I wonder if Og bitched to Broomar that the kids today had no real appreciation of what it took to harness fire and that we'd all be cold in the dark soon as a result.

And how well are the Pharaohs and Roman Emperors doing these days?

[FaninAma]

One word: GREED

I would add in 2 more: subsidized irresponsibility.

Actually I would add in another word: dependence.

[FaninAma]

Isn't it interesting that the disintegration of society, the mongrelization of society, the coming financial apocalypse, the failure of the young to properly respect their elders and hold up the standards of previous generations etc, etc, etc have been carped about middle aged and up establishment types since at least Old Testament times?
I wonder if Og bitched to Broomar that the kids today had no real appreciation of what it took to harness fire and that we'd all be cold in the dark soon as a result.

I agree that societal norms are cyclical. There are other cycles that have repeated themselves throughout history and I would prefer to avoid some of those:

Tyranny:revolution:independence:prosperity:indiffe rence:dependence:tyranny. I wonder which phase we are in now?

[KantoSooner]

And how well are the Pharaohs and Roman Emperors doing these days?

The Pharoahs ruled for what? 2,500 years? The Roman Empire lasted for close to 800. (yes, I know, I conflate the Republic with the Empire, sue me). By that reckoning, we've at least 550 years or so before the Visigoths storm the National Mall and use the Washington Monument as a giant may pole.

American society is as robust as it's ever been and is far more resilient than any other on earth today.

You worry about a lack of commitment to virtue and good values? Then GO LEAD. By example. The good commanders are always out in front. Show your fellows by example what it is to lead a good life. Be positive and unafraid. And be willing to let people draw their own conclusions. Your confidence and commitment will get more buy in than scamming the system to strong arm people into sullen obedience to unpopular laws.

[KantoSooner]

I agree that societal norms are cyclical. There are other cycles that have repeated themselves throughout history and I would prefer to avoid some of those:

Tyranny:revolution:independence:prospertiy:indiffe rence:dependence:tyranny. I wonder which phase we are in now?

That's what we're working out. One of the primary breakthroughs of the Enlightenment was to attempt to break out of this cycle. The proposed driver that was going to achieve this goal, thought the political philosophers of the day, was the institution of popular republicanism, or representative democracy, in the context of a market economy.

When Fukuyama talks about 'the end of history' this is what he is referring to. Will we descend back into tyranny? No one knows; we haven't, yet.

Don't see many signs that we're about to, either.

[OU68]

I agree that societal norms are cyclical. There are other cycles that have repeated themselves throughout history and I would prefer to avoid some of those:

Tyranny:revolution:independence:prospertiy:indiffe rence:dependence:tyranny. I wonder which phase we are in now?

My money's on dependence - yeah, I'm a cynical sob....

[cleller]

My money's on dependence - yeah, I'm a cynical sob....

Me, too. I fear the phase may last awhile.

[FaninAma]

Kanto, before responsibility was dictated by survival. If you didn't do the right things most often you and your family didn't survive. If you didn't work you starved. If you allowed your elderly family members to fend for themselves they starved. If you had more kids than you could support they starved.

I am not advocating returning to harsh realities like that but even Japan is making changes due to the fact that the comfortable poor are becoming too numerous in their society. Comfortable poor is their term, not mine.

And I disagree with your statement about American society being very robust. We have more and more children born to single mothers which carries all of the inherrant risks of higher rates of crime, poverty and underachievement. Black society is being decimated. Don't believe me, take a tour of NYC and when you get to Harlem pay attention to all of the very creative and positive things that blacks were producing as well as the richness and cohesiveness of black culture leading up to LBJ's Great Society.

The family is the bedrock foundation of society. Even the communist reversed their anti-family policies in the 60's when they saw the results of destabilizing the family unit. You assertion is false.

[Midtowner]

Isn't it interesting that the disintegration of society, the mongrelization of society, the coming financial apocalypse, the failure of the young to properly respect their elders and hold up the standards of previous generations etc, etc, etc have been carped about middle aged and up establishment types since at least Old Testament times?
I wonder if Og bitched to Broomar that the kids today had no real appreciation of what it took to harness fire and that we'd all be cold in the dark soon as a result.

One of my favorite quotes: "Times are bad, children no longer obey their parents and everyone is writing a book." -- Cicero.

[KantoSooner]

Kanto, before responsibility was dictated by survival. If you didn't do the right things most often you and your family didn't survive. If you didn't work you starved. If you allowed your elderly family members to fend for themselves they starved. If you had more kids than you could support they starved.

I am not advocating returning to harsh realities like that but even Japan is making changes due to the fact that the comfortable poor are becoming too numerous in their society. Comfortable poor is their term, not mine.

And I disagree with your statement about American society being very robust. We have more and more children born to single mothers which carries all of the inherrant risks of higher rates of crime, poverty and underachievement. Black society is being decimated. Don't believe me, take a tour of NYC and when you get to Harlem pay attention to all of the very creative and positive things that blacks were producing as well as the richness and cohesiveness of black culture leading up to LBJ's Great Society.

The family is the bedrock foundation of society. Even the communist reversed their anti-family policies in the 60's when they saw the results of destabilizing the family unit. You assertion is false.


What assertion?
Correction: Japan is not having any trouble at all with comfortable poor. There are massive squatter camps even in the capitol city (for instance, it is no longer very pleasant to visit Ueno Zoo or the Museum complex there due to huge numbers of people camping out and the resultant heavy smell of urine in the air. (the weather there is an almost exact copy of Washington DC so you can imagine the charm of 90 degrees and muggy with a lot of human waste laying about).
Secondly, Black society in America has never been a particularly good measure of anything other than how blacks were being treated by whites. You're talking about 12% of the population. And a fraction of that is in bad shape. A fraction of that has been in bad shape since about 1625. Not a good thing, but hardly an impending symbol of doom.

go back and look at the strength of 'family' at intervals back to colonial times. In many ways, the family has never been stronger than it is today. For a number of reasons, it is now possible for people to survive what would have be disasters in previous generations (single parenthood, for example). That those families survive now rather than starving shoudl not, in my view, be seen as a weakness.

Do the Tony Blair test (mentally only, please). Throw open America's doors. Who leaves, who comes? How many go each way? If you want to know who's got an attractive society going on, that's one pretty evocative way to settle the issue.

[JohnnyMack]

I would add in 2 more: subsidized irresponsibility.

Actually I would add in another word: dependence.

As long as you'll show enough honesty to admit that this is steered towards Wall Street banks and overfed Defense Contractors I'll allow it.

;)

[Curly Bill]

As long as you'll show enough honesty to admit that this is steered towards Wall Street banks and overfed Defense Contractors I'll allow it.

;)


Hey JM, welcome back, how was your trip to North Korea?

[JohnnyMack]

Hey JM, welcome back, how was your trip to North Korea?

Great Baby! I'll show my "I Love Kim-Jong" tattoo when you're blowing me next week.

[Curly Bill]

Great Baby! I'll show my "I Love Kim-Jong" tattoo when you're blowing me next week.

Cool. It's a date!

[Curly Bill]

Cool. It's a date!

Actually Ima need a Raincheck. Ima be down on the border doing my part for border security.

[KantoSooner]

Aim low, they be riding burros.

[FaninAma]

As long as you'll show enough honesty to admit that this is steered towards Wall Street banks and overfed Defense Contractors I'll allow it.

;)

If the shoe fits. I certainly don't think the problems are confined to individuals.

[Curly Bill]

Aim low, they be riding burros.

Center mass!

[diverdog]

Kanto, before responsibility was dictated by survival. If you didn't do the right things most often you and your family didn't survive. If you didn't work you starved. If you allowed your elderly family members to fend for themselves they starved. If you had more kids than you could support they starved.

I am not advocating returning to harsh realities like that but even Japan is making changes due to the fact that the comfortable poor are becoming too numerous in their society. Comfortable poor is their term, not mine.

And I disagree with your statement about American society being very robust. We have more and more children born to single mothers which carries all of the inherrant risks of higher rates of crime, poverty and underachievement. Black society is being decimated. Don't believe me, take a tour of NYC and when you get to Harlem pay attention to all of the very creative and positive things that blacks were producing as well as the richness and cohesiveness of black culture leading up to LBJ's Great Society.

The family is the bedrock foundation of society. Even the communist reversed their anti-family policies in the 60's when they saw the results of destabilizing the family unit. You assertion is false.

Aw the good ole days. I can't wait to go back. Hell back then you could go to the town dry good store and get a Doc for two bits.

[FaninAma]

Sigh. Apparently you didn't make it to the next sentence in my post....or perhaps you just wanted to play the "oh, so you're fine with letting kids starve" card.

i wish i could have you shadow me in clinic for a week and see first hand the consequences of individuals who refuse to take responsibility of making bad choices over and over and over again.

No, we shouldn't let people starve but neither should we turn over charity to a faceless, uncaring beaurocracy that does nothing to promote or encourage better decisions from its victims, uh, recipients. In fact it rewards them.

Responsible decision making doesn't guarantee you will never need government handouts but it certainly reduces the chances.

[diverdog]

Sigh. Apparently you didn't make it to the next sentence in my post....or perhaps you just wanted to play the "oh, so you're fine with letting kids starve" card.

i wish i could have you shadow me in clinic for a week and see first hand the consequences of individuals who refuse to take responsibility of making bad choices over and over and over again.

No, we shouldn't let people starve but neither should we turn over charity to a faceless, uncaring beaurocracy that does nothing to promote or encourage better decisions from its victims, uh, recipients. In fact it rewards them.

Responsible decision making doesn't guarantee you will never need government handouts but it certainly reduces the chances.

Doc, I was just joshing you. You need to quit being so serious. All we can do is hang on for the ride. Enjoy life and pray things get better. No way we solve the worlds problems on an internet board.

Hey you want a laugh. A bunch of people want me to run for the Delaware State Treasurer. I mean normal well positioned people. No way would I ever do it because I hate politics.

[Sooner98]

DDGDgc1qNCA

[FaninAma]

Doc, I was just joshing you. You need to quit being so serious. All we can do is hang on for the ride. Enjoy life and pray things get better. No way we solve the worlds problems on an internet board.

Hey you want a laugh. A bunch of people want me to run for the Delaware State Treasurer. I mean normal well positioned people. No way would I ever do it because I hate politics.


Sorry, I guess the humor meter wasn't working and I have dealt with others who weren't kidding. Of course I don't want to see anybody suffer. I just think the act of human charity should be carried out in communities. You can justifiably criticize George W. for a lot of things but i thought his idea of funding private and religious organizations that did charitable work in communities was great. I would go one step further. I would stop using DC as a middle man. I would give even more generous tax breaks to individuals and businesses that suppoerted local charities. I have given to United Way my entire life and I have automatic deductions for the Boys and Girl's club as well as UNICEF(egads a UN organization) and a local pro-life organization.

[diverdog]

Hey you want a laugh. A bunch of people want me to run for the Delaware State Treasurer. I mean normal well positioned people. No way would I ever do it because I hate politics.

Sorry, I guess the humor meter wasn't working and I have dealt with others who weren't kidding. Of course I don't want to see anybody suffer. I just think the act of human charity should be carried out in communities. You can justifiably criticize George W. for a lot of things but i thought his idea of funding private and religious organizations that did charitable work in communities was great. I would go one step further. I would stop using DC as a middle man. I would give even more generous tax breaks to individuals and businesses that suppoerted local charities. I have given to United Way my entire life and I have automatic deductions for the Boys and Girl's club as well as UNICEF(egads a UN organization) and a local pro-life organization.[/QUOTE]


I give to United Way, Doctors Without Borders, Boys and Girls Club and recently Remote Area Access. Boys and Girls I do through work so technically it does not come from my pocket other than the gold coin I give for silent auction.


I think Bush tried and I liked his efforts in Africa.

[StoopTroup]

Has Jan Brewer provided pics or proof of the headless bodies yet?