Shake-up within the staff.

[8timechamps]

This has not been confirmed, but supposedly there will be some staff changes after national signing day (next week). I don't have any clue who it may be (and there may be more than one), but outside of Mike, Kish, Josh, Norvell and BJW, I think anyone could be fair game.

[JLEW1818]

Fire Venables

[cvsooner]

That leaves Patton and Kittle. And Bob.

[sooneron]

Please let it be Kittle. With his resume, he should be coaching juco.

[RADsooner]

Coach Smitty over the Jefferson deal?

[sooneron]

Schmiddy? Mmm!??

[8timechamps]

That leaves Patton and Kittle. And Bob.

Schmidt
Gundy
Patton
Shipp
Kittle

I have no idea who is involved, but could be any of those guys. I guess it could be Norvell/Kish/Heuple/Mike/Kish too, but I doubt they're being removed/moved anywhere.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Manginos coming back and Schmitty is finally gone?

[Soonerjeepman]

8time...

if YOU know something, I would think recruits have heard as well. I don't understand why they are waiting til after signing day unless they are afraid of losing recruits...but again, if you are posting it here then I'm sure they know.

[SoonerinLondon]

Manginos coming back and Schmitty is finally gone?

Mangino a S&C coach. I like that.

[Widescreen]

If Mangino because S&C coach, he and Madsen could have a manboob-off.

[picasso]

I'm gonna guess it's Billy Martin. If anyone needs firing it's that bastard.

[yermom]

I'm gonna guess it's Brandon Martin. If anyone needs firing it's that bastard.

yeah.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Man, I hope its not Gundy. Dude has been a solid recruiter. As for a coach, I don't feel he has slacked.

[soonertodd]

Heard that Chuck Long was gonna be back

[Ruf/Nek7]

Heard that Chuck Long was gonna be back

DON'T YOU EVER SAY THAT AGAIN.

[yermom]

Man, I hope its not Gundy. Dude has been a solid recruiter. As for a coach, I don't feel he has slacked.

he got us AD. that ought to keep him here for life :D

[BillyBall]

I have a feeling that Patton will be calling movers real soon.

[Curly Bill]

I have a feeling that Patton will be calling movers real soon.

I approve this message!

[cvsooner]

It won't be Gundy, nor Schmidt. Shipp, possibly. And considering a TE converted to LT is now all the rage of the NFL draft, Kittle may have bought himself some time. Geeze, I dunno. It's all rumor at this point. Maybe BJW is retiring to take over recruiting?

[goingoneight]

Tim Kish is being pulled in favor of another DB coach.

[Curly Bill]

Jimmy Stevens the new kicking coach?

[LakeRat]

8time, would you inform me as to the positions each of these coaches, and which are the strongest and weakest recruiters. I can look up the positions, but do they do multiple things and cross over? For instance, Kevin Wilson coached TE's/FB while OC. Josh was in charge of the Pass game, and Gundy was the Run game coordinator (this is what I recall).

What are the current roles?

[OkieThunderLion]

Tim Kish is being pulled in favor of another DB coach.
Wait, I see what you did there. :-)

[bmjlr]

Heard that Chuck Long was gonna be back

YOU BITE YOUR TONGUE!!!!

[goingoneight]

The rumoring is Norvell and Heupel are switching this year (Heupel on-field/Norvell calls plays). The reasoning is that was the agreement to keep Norvell here instead of losing him to Chicago.

[Curly Bill]

The rumoring is Norvell and Heupel are switching this year (Heupel on-field/Norvell calls plays). The reasoning is that was the agreement to keep Norvell here instead of losing him to Chicago.

I could get behind this. I wasn't a KW fan, but Heupel sure hasn't wowed me either. I'd take KW back over Heupel in fact.

[SoonerinLondon]

KW was a great play caller, except when he got that bull-headed "I want to run it up the middle" thing going. We generally seemed to keep the other D on their heels with KW.

[Curly Bill]

KW was a great play caller, except when he got that bull-headed "I want to run it up the middle" thing going. We generally seemed to keep the other D on their heels with KW.

Yup, one of my main complaints when he was here.

[OkieThunderLion]

Wilson was the best OC I've seen at OU. The way he matched scheme to fit personnel was second to none!

[jkjsooner]

Wilson was the best OC I've seen at OU. The way he matched scheme to fit personnel was second to none!

I agree with this.

Way too many after the run didn't work critics of KW. I swear people use hindsight in their evaluations and don't even know they're doing it.


If KW would have run the ball up the middle all game long to no effect (see Gibbs/Coker against Texas) then the criticism would be valid. He never did that. All he did was call games in a way that resulted in a bunch of scoring and a fairly balanced offense.

[SoonerMarkVA]

The rumoring is Norvell and Heupel are switching this year (Heupel on-field/Norvell calls plays). The reasoning is that was the agreement to keep Norvell here instead of losing him to Chicago.

I would approve of this because Heupel has empirically been very valuable to the QBs on the sideline, where he can talk to them, calm them, whatever else he does. Maybe Heup's just a field general, and the box doesn't suit him.

[goingoneight]

My evaluation of the post KW offense is it's gotten even farther away from the roots of physical football. Our run plays are just used to bring the defense back home anymore and the best offenses work the opposite way. Too much is put on OUr QBs to win the game based of timing and passing now. Wilson's offenses had as much balance as you could really ask for when considered that the QBs and WRs were as good as they were from 2006-2010. 2009 you could nitpick, but all in all that actually was a good effort considering the personnel losses to attrition and injuries versus an average year.

[8timechamps]

8time...

if YOU know something, I would think recruits have heard as well. I don't understand why they are waiting til after signing day unless they are afraid of losing recruits...but again, if you are posting it here then I'm sure they know.

What I know has been posted. I'm not keeping anything back. I'm assuming the recruits are told what they need to know, so they may or may not know more. But, you're right, if I know, I'm sure they know.

[8timechamps]

8time, would you inform me as to the positions each of these coaches, and which are the strongest and weakest recruiters. I can look up the positions, but do they do multiple things and cross over? For instance, Kevin Wilson coached TE's/FB while OC. Josh was in charge of the Pass game, and Gundy was the Run game coordinator (this is what I recall).

What are the current roles?

It's all over the board (as far as recruiting). They each have their assigned areas, but that doesn't keep a coach from recruiting a different position. For instance, Kish was the initial recruiter for K.J. Young, then Norvell closed him. Kish also was the initial recruiter for Matthew Romar, and Jackie Shipp closed him. But, the majority of the time, it's the position coaches recruiting their positions:

Norvell: WR
Heuple: QB
Gundy: RB
Wright: DE
Shipp: DT
Kish: LB
Mike Stoops: DB
Patton: OG/OC
Kittle: OT/TE

As for ranking them, Norvell is at the top with BJW a close second. Mike Stoops is up there too. After that, there's a little drop down to Heuple & Gundy (only because they recruit a much smaller overall number of players). Then it'd be Shipp with Patton and Kittle are at the bottom right now. It's too early for me to grade Kish.

[StoopTroup]

The rumoring is Norvell and Heupel are switching this year (Heupel on-field/Norvell calls plays). The reasoning is that was the agreement to keep Norvell here instead of losing him to Chicago.

Since we are replacing our 5 year QB I like the idea that Josh is headed towards the field where he can Coach the QBs and the WRs. It's time we had someone down there actually working with them as a unit rather than Norvell standing around giving high fives and patting guys on the a$$ for almost catching a pass.

Bob and Josh can call the plays from the sidelines and after this Season we can hopefully unload Norvell to some Team that believes he can actually Coach.

[hvhurricane]

Since we are replacing our 5 year QB I like the idea that Josh is headed towards the field where he can Coach the QBs and the WRs. It's time we had someone down there actually working with them as a unit rather than Norvell standing around giving high fives and patting guys on the a$$ for almost catching a pass.

Bob and Josh can call the plays from the sidelines and after this Season we can hopefully unload Norvell to some Team that believes he can actually Coach.


I wouldn't trade Dick Winder for JH or JN. They are both below average coaches, IMO. JH may be a decent QB coach, but he certainly couldn't coach LJ the fundamentals. The play calling the last two years has been beyond awful. We have absolutely no identity on offense, other than everyone looking over at the sidline with their hands up waiting for the play to be called with three seconds on the play clock. I really enjoy the boards they hold up with four colors, though.

[hvhurricane]

I wouldn't trade Dick Winder for JH or JN. They are both below average coaches, IMO. JH may be a decent QB coach, but he certainly couldn't coach LJ the fundamentals. The play calling the last two years has been beyond awful. We have absolutely no identity on offense, other than everyone looking over at the sidline with their hands up waiting for the play to be called with three seconds on the play clock. I really enjoy the boards they hold up with four colors, though.

Also, I promise you if there is any changes that are going to be made after the signing day, they are not telling the recruits. That is how it works. It is all about the coaches in college sports and they will do whatever it takes to keep their high paying jobs. All is fair in recruiting or so it goes.

[goingoneight]

If you don't think word gets out and recruits don't know what's going on, you're being naive. Kass Everett broke the Mike Stoops story on Tweeter last year before it was officially reported anywhere. I would think all the tweeter stalkers by now would have found some kinda dirt on this whole coachswap thing if it really had any legs.

[hvhurricane]

If you don't think word gets out and recruits don't know what's going on, you're being naive. Kass Everett broke the Mike Stoops story on Tweeter last year before it was officially reported anywhere. I would think all the tweeter stalkers by now would have found some kinda dirt on this whole coachswap thing if it really had any legs.

Anyone with a brain could have broken the story that MS was coming back. Hell, he was at every game. Nobody else was going to touch him. If a recruit couldn't have figured that move out then I am not sure how they pass their classes at OU. Honesty and recruiting are not two words that belong together.

[Wishboned]

The rumoring is Norvell and Heupel are switching this year (Heupel on-field/Norvell calls plays). The reasoning is that was the agreement to keep Norvell here instead of losing him to Chicago.

I think having Heupel on the sidelines will help more with whoever is starting at QB.

[Soonerjeepman]

What I know has been posted. I'm not keeping anything back. I'm assuming the recruits are told what they need to know, so they may or may not know more. But, you're right, if I know, I'm sure they know.

lol...dude I wasn't trying to rag on ya...I know YOU know stuff! That's what I was saying, if you know it then I'm sure the recruits do as well...so wondering why the staff is waiting til after signing day...that reason makes it seem like there would be someone leaving the staff..hence recruits maybe changing their mind.

Sorry bud wasn't trying to give you a hard time! ;-)

BTW..if this is the "shake-up" that's fine..glad something is changing...hopefully we can use ALL of our offensive weapons...(Millard) more

[StoopTroup]

I'm thinking Millard will see lots of action if we aren't able to pass downfield.

[Seamus]

Millard needs to see lots of action regardless of what we put together for a passing game.

[StoopTroup]

Millard needs to see lots of action regardless of what we put together for a passing game.

I thought he did pretty good this year but towards the end of the Season the Defenses we played seemed to be prepared for him and because of that a few of Millard's drops were probably due to the extra pressure. I surely hope he gets some of that fixed this Summer.

[LakeRat]

He needs more carries.

[goingoneight]

People say that... but I'm really not sure it's true. I think it's clear he excels given the opportunities he gets; but if a guy deserves to truly be the focal point of an offense under Stoops, they've generally been given those extra touches. Jermaine Gresham and AD come to mind.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Maybe OU was slow playing Millard to keep him here an additional year. Maybe next year, Millard will be our featured back!!!! :glee:

[One4OU]

The rumoring is Norvell and Heupel are switching this year (Heupel on-field/Norvell calls plays). The reasoning is that was the agreement to keep Norvell here instead of losing him to Chicago.


If that is the shake up then that is weak. This wont fix anything.

[Breadburner]

Millard to Linebacker.....

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Not at this point.

[goingoneight]

If that is the shake up then that is weak. This wont fix anything.
Depends on your situation. We've got boatloads of experience at WR and we're breaking in a new QB. Might be huge to have JH down there to work with his guys. He's proven the to be among the best in the country at working with QBs. From White transforming his style and winning the Heisman on two bad knees to bringing Paul Thompson out of hiding and then Sam and Landry developed well with JH on the sidelines.
Maybe Norvell has a better feel for the play calling as well?

[cleller]

Depends on your situation. We've got boatloads of experience at WR and we're breaking in a new QB. Might be huge to have JH down there to work with his guys. He's proven the to be among the best in the country at working with QBs. From White transforming his style and winning the Heisman on two bad knees to bringing Paul Thompson out of hiding and then Sam and Landry developed well with JH on the sidelines.
Maybe Norvell has a better feel for the play calling as well?

This was what I was thinking, too. The switch in the booth. is easily explained away, too. Since we'll have a rookie QB out there, instead of an old hand like Landry, have Heupel on the sidelines seems very logical.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Chuck Long and BV back as our primary coordinators!!!

[goingoneight]

If BV wanted to bring in some linebackers, send Kish over to Clemson. :P

[goingoneight]

I have a question... where are all of our resident board members with their infamous "sources within the program?" Surely they know what's up... I mean, they nailed it with those--
"Stoops to Dallas"
"Venables soon to be fired for player abuse!"
"Adrian Peterson blames Jerry Schmidt!"
... "scoops."

[cvsooner]

Have to think Norvell calling plays from the booth would eliminate some tendencies we've shown the past couple of years, at least for a few games, and of which there is plenty of film. Seems like a good move to me. I don't see that it can hurt one bit...and probably an improvement, frankly.

[8timechamps]

I wouldn't trade Dick Winder for JH or JN. They are both below average coaches, IMO. JH may be a decent QB coach, but he certainly couldn't coach LJ the fundamentals. The play calling the last two years has been beyond awful. We have absolutely no identity on offense, other than everyone looking over at the sidline with their hands up waiting for the play to be called with three seconds on the play clock. I really enjoy the boards they hold up with four colors, though.

I don't know if you're being serious, but I'll assume you are...

Arguments can be made as to whether or not JH is a good offensive coordinator, or not, but the guy is a very good QB coach. I tend to think he's a pretty good OC, and the stats would back that up, but I can also see the other side of the argument. Still, he's hardly "below average".

As for Norvell, what could you possibly know that makes you think Norvell is "below average"? It's no secret he is the best recruiter on the staff (that alone makes him invaluable), but I'm going to go ahead and take the Chicago Bears assessment over yours.

The whole "not getting the play in" thing I can agree with. There really is no excuse for that (especially later in the season). At least not at the frequency we saw it. That needs to be addressed.

Then there's the infamous colored boards. What strikes me as funny about the people complaining about those, is that if OU won a national title (using those), they'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Also, do you know for sure that those boards mean anything? I don't. Could it be that those boards are used to mark which coach is sending in the actual signals? Or to try and throw off defensive coaches trying to pick up on trends or signs?! No, you don't know...but you should definitely spend time being frustrated over them.

[goingoneight]

Good point. You never know what is going on by looking at OU's sideline. It could be all a staged mess where only one coach is actually giving the call to the team.

[goingoneight]

I'm still waiting for an answer. Where's all the "sources" at regarding stuff like this?

[olevetonahill]

I'm still waiting for an answer. Where's all the "sources" at regarding stuff like this?

I was asked to NOT say anything yet.

[goingoneight]

I was asked to NOT say anything yet.

:D

[MichiganSooner]

Those colored boards reminded me of OSU and the signs they used.

[Ruf/Nek7]

Here is my question. If the Norvell/JH switch is the "shake-up" we are talking about, why are they waiting to make an announcemnt after NSD? IMO, that announcement could very well be a positive factor for us in the final stretch. Norvell seems to be the better recruiter with better relations with offensive recruits. Also, if I am a half wit offensive recruit, I would love the opportunity to have Norvell calling the shots in the years to come.

Lastly, if Norvell does call plays and is successful, see ya Jay! He is already a hot commodity and will be gone after just one year of good play calling. I know all good things must come to an end but I rather it be later, rather than SOONER.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Here is my question. If the Norvell/JH switch is the "shake-up" we are talking about, why are they waiting to make an announcemnt after NSD? IMO, that announcement could very well be a positive factor for us in the final stretch. Norvell seems to be the better recruiter with better relations with offensive recruits. Also, if I am a half wit offensive recruit, I would love the opportunity to have Norvell calling the shots in the years to come.

Lastly, if Norvell does call plays and is successful, see ya Jay! He is already a hot commodity and will be gone after just one year of good play calling. I know all good things must come to an end but I rather it be later, rather than SOONER.

^^ This.

[SoonerMom2]

Depends on your situation. We've got boatloads of experience at WR and we're breaking in a new QB. Might be huge to have JH down there to work with his guys. He's proven the to be among the best in the country at working with QBs. From White transforming his style and winning the Heisman on two bad knees to bringing Paul Thompson out of hiding and then Sam and Landry developed well with JH on the sidelines.
Maybe Norvell has a better feel for the play calling as well?

With a new quarterback, I am all for Heupel being on the field and Novell calling the plays. I think Josh is better able to settle the quarterbacks down - think it is a better fit and hope it happens. As for people who think we were dull last year, what did anyone expect. Landry who is a pro-style quarterback who led us to a lot of victories was in his senior year and there was little left they could add. Novell said on twitter he was looking forward to this summer when they could scheme about what they were going to do with their offense for next year. BTW, Landry was Wilson's choice not Josh's.

[SoonerMom2]

I think Josh/Novell switch is just one of the changes going down. Mike Stoops has more of his own players and switching the defense. Cannot wait for spring football and the season to start. Jamal Brown would be my choice as a new grad assistant as he would be awesome to toughen up the line. Heard on the radio he is thinking of retiring from NFL - we need to grab him.

[Piware]

Manginos coming back and Schmitty is finally gone? Wouldn't that be somethin'?!?

[goingoneight]

Isn't Ryan Reynolds coaching now?

[SoonerMom2]

Isn't Ryan Reynolds coaching now? There are now four grad assistants instead of two - Derrick Straight came on board in August.

[VA Sooner]

Derrick Strait... damn good corner. Would be great to see him pass on his knowledge... or is it more inborn talent?

[hvhurricane]

I don't know if you're being serious, but I'll assume you are...

Arguments can be made as to whether or not JH is a good offensive coordinator, or not, but the guy is a very good QB coach. I tend to think he's a pretty good OC, and the stats would back that up, but I can also see the other side of the argument. Still, he's hardly "below average".

As for Norvell, what could you possibly know that makes you think Norvell is "below average"? It's no secret he is the best recruiter on the staff (that alone makes him invaluable), but I'm going to go ahead and take the Chicago Bears assessment over yours.

The whole "not getting the play in" thing I can agree with. There really is no excuse for that (especially later in the season). At least not at the frequency we saw it. That needs to be addressed.

Then there's the infamous colored boards. What strikes me as funny about the people complaining about those, is that if OU won a national title (using those), they'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Also, do you know for sure that those boards mean anything? I don't. Could it be that those boards are used to mark which coach is sending in the actual signals? Or to try and throw off defensive coaches trying to pick up on trends or signs?! No, you don't know...but you should definitely spend time being frustrated over them.

Except for one other guy, who doesn't even deserve to have his name mentioned, Josh is the worst play caller since Winder. Chuck certainly wasn't good, but at least he had a plan. I certainly didn't agree with it very often, though. Josh has absolutely no feel for the game and hasn't shown the ability to adjust his schemes to fit his personnel. The ND game was one of the worst games, from a play calling perspective, I have seen since Coker was here.

I certainly haven't seen anything great from JN. He certainly has some connections in the NFL. He couldn't get the Wisconsin OC job, though. He may be a good recruiter. I honestly don't follow who recruits each player. He didn't do a very good job early in the year when he tried to make Stills play the slot. They looked a lot better when Saunders came into the rotation. If I had to chose between the two, I would go with JN as the OC. I would rather see them bring in new blood and get some new ideas within the offense.

The ability to get the play called in early enough has been a problem for a few years. We have been wasting TO's for years. We try to change the play when the defense changes their look, but the defense just goes back to their original call when we snap the ball. The DC's know they can bait us into doing that all game long.

I would hope the colored signs serve no real purpose but my guess is they do. I don't think it tells the players which coach to look at because I believe the three coaches are all giving the same call. I wouldn't care what they were doing if they were being more successful. And, if nothing else, it looks bad because we stole the idea from the Aggies.

[goingoneight]

Except for one other guy, who doesn't even deserve to have his name mentioned, Josh is the worst play caller since Winder. Chuck certainly wasn't good, but at least he had a plan. I certainly didn't agree with it very often, though. Josh has absolutely no feel for the game and hasn't shown the ability to adjust his schemes to fit his personnel. The ND game was one of the worst games, from a play calling perspective, I have seen since Coker was here.

I certainly haven't seen anything great from JN. He certainly has some connections in the NFL. He couldn't get the Wisconsin OC job, though. He may be a good recruiter. I honestly don't follow who recruits each player. He didn't do a very good job early in the year when he tried to make Stills play the slot. They looked a lot better when Saunders came into the rotation. If I had to chose between the two, I would go with JN as the OC. I would rather see them bring in new blood and get some new ideas within the offense.

The ability to get the play called in early enough has been a problem for a few years. We have been wasting TO's for years. We try to change the play when the defense changes their look, but the defense just goes back to their original call when we snap the ball. The DC's know they can bait us into doing that all game long.

I would hope the colored signs serve no real purpose but my guess is they do. I don't think it tells the players which coach to look at because I believe the three coaches are all giving the same call. I wouldn't care what they were doing if they were being more successful. And, if nothing else, it looks bad because we stole the idea from the Aggies.

You're right... an OU coach should never even think twice about doing something Aggies do. Someone should tell Barry Switzer that.

[Scott D]

I would hope the colored signs serve no real purpose but my guess is they do. I don't think it tells the players which coach to look at because I believe the three coaches are all giving the same call. I wouldn't care what they were doing if they were being more successful. And, if nothing else, it looks bad because we stole the idea from the Aggies.

Half of college football uses those signs. It wasn't stolen from Aggie no matter how much they try to cry that it was.

[sooner KB]

Was there a thread on the whole thing about Barry Switzer saying that Mark Mangino was coming back? I don't remember seeing one. For anyone that didn't see it, there was an article somewhere quoting Switzer as claiming Mangino was coming back for next season. Maybe the rumor about Heupel is partially true, he is moving down to the sideline, but Norvell is going up there.

[Peeb]

Half of college football uses those signs. It wasn't stolen from Aggie no matter how much they try to cry that it was.

:confused: Huh?

I never heard about anybody complaining, or even caring, whether or not you'uns wanted to use or not use signs.

Mebbe you're thinkin' of Texas Tech - they invented EVERYTHING.

If if makes you feel better to think we are mad: RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE. There ya go.

[goingoneight]

Besides, an interesting point was made that those boards could just be decoys while the hand signals still communicate the plays.

[cleller]

Derrick Strait... damn good corner. Would be great to see him pass on his knowledge... or is it more inborn talent?

Could he at least give blood transfusions, or something?

[SoonerCLF]

iirc, there are 3 side-line "coaches" giving signals for the offense to read. Two of the signalers are decoys, the remaining signaler is giving the actual play that is being called.

During one of the home games early in the season where Blake Bell got some trash time in the 4th; there was a play called where he received the shotgun snap and looked to pass, and the rest of the team was run blocking and the play blew up for a loss of a few yards. Bob later said that Blake Bell was wrong on the play because he was reading the "decoy" signals as the actual play on that down.

[hvhurricane]

And Bob is always honest with the media so that story has got to be true.

[8timechamps]

Except for one other guy, who doesn't even deserve to have his name mentioned, Josh is the worst play caller since Winder. Chuck certainly wasn't good, but at least he had a plan. I certainly didn't agree with it very often, though. Josh has absolutely no feel for the game and hasn't shown the ability to adjust his schemes to fit his personnel. The ND game was one of the worst games, from a play calling perspective, I have seen since Coker was here.

I certainly haven't seen anything great from JN. He certainly has some connections in the NFL. He couldn't get the Wisconsin OC job, though. He may be a good recruiter. I honestly don't follow who recruits each player. He didn't do a very good job early in the year when he tried to make Stills play the slot. They looked a lot better when Saunders came into the rotation. If I had to chose between the two, I would go with JN as the OC. I would rather see them bring in new blood and get some new ideas within the offense.

The ability to get the play called in early enough has been a problem for a few years. We have been wasting TO's for years. We try to change the play when the defense changes their look, but the defense just goes back to their original call when we snap the ball. The DC's know they can bait us into doing that all game long.

I would hope the colored signs serve no real purpose but my guess is they do. I don't think it tells the players which coach to look at because I believe the three coaches are all giving the same call. I wouldn't care what they were doing if they were being more successful. And, if nothing else, it looks bad because we stole the idea from the Aggies.


First, let me say that the ND game was a poorly called game (on the offensive side of the ball). So, I completely agree with you on that. However, I don't agree with your overall assessment of Heuple as an OC. I really don't have a problem with his gameplans for the most part. The offense has continued to be among the best in the country under his watch, and he's a pretty damn good QB coach. This year is going to really test his meddle. A new QB with little (or no, depending on the QB) experience. We'll see how it goes.

Norvell, without question, is the best recruiter on the staff (with the exception of Bob). As for his attempt to move Stills to the slot, he really didn't have much of anything proven (talent-wise) to work with. I think he was trying to figure out how to minimize the impact of so much inexperience. Regardless, he took a receiving corp that was the biggest concern going into the year, and turned it into one of the deepest units on the team. I can't really speak to his play calling, because I really have no clue how much he is involved.

I don't think all three coaches/QBs are calling the same play. Two of them are decoys. If you go back and look at the games, you'll see they are all giving different signals. At the very least, one of the three is sending in signals to the QB and the other two are signaling separate positions.

If this shake up involves bringing in a new coach, I'd like to see a young guy. Someone hungry, full of energy, that can relate to the players a little better than the guys currently on the sidelines. I don't think anyone will be let go, rather some moving around, but if they do go out to bring someone in, I'd be excited about that.

[goingoneight]

Scout boards are saying it's Patton leaving now. I'll just be bold and say nothing's going to happen now. The Heupel/Norvell thing isn't a huge announcement if true anyway.

[Boomer.....]

Apparently Patton's house is up for sale.

[Scott D]

The real secret is that Mack is bringing Chris Simms in to be co-offensive coordinator with Applewhite. The plan is that Mack will have them alternate during the game who is on the sideline and who is in the booth.

[ashley]

Derrick Strait... damn good corner. Would be great to see him pass on his knowledge... or is it more inborn talent?

Talent

[OkieThunderLion]

There are now four grad assistants instead of two - Derrick Straight came on board in August.

I thought Strait started last spring and didn't last thru the summer?

[cherokeebrewer]

Apparently Patton's house is up for sale.

If he goes, I hope the rumors of Mangino coming back are not true. I mean, I like the 'fat man' personally, but OU doesn't need the baggage...

[cleller]

I don't think all three coaches/QBs are calling the same play. Two of them are decoys. If you go back and look at the games, you'll see they are all giving different signals. At the very least, one of the three is sending in signals to the QB and the other two are signaling separate positions.



Ah...maybe we were running some of the decoy plays by mistake.

[SoonerMom2]

I thought Strait started last spring and didn't last thru the summer? They couldn't put Straight officially on the staff as a grad assistant until 1 August -- this is from the Norman Transcript on 12 Sep 2012:

Oklahoma's coaching staff is quickly filling up with former players. Joe Jon Finley recently joined fellow former players Derrick Strait and Joey Halze as graduate assistants on the staff. Former center Jon Cooper is currently a student assistant.

[goingoneight]

Other boards are babbling again about Shipp, Patton and possibly BJW out or some shuffling going on to accomodate new additions to the staff. Take that FWIW. I think they're all wishful thinkers.

[EatLeadCommie]

Patton needs to go and has needed to go for a while. OL has been soft since his arrival.

[8timechamps]

Other boards are babbling again about Shipp, Patton and possibly BJW out or some shuffling going on to accomodate new additions to the staff. Take that FWIW. I think they're all wishful thinkers.

I can't say I would lose sleep if Patton or Shipp left, but losing BJW would be a bad thing.

[goingoneight]

Patton has had some great success here. 2006-2008 and even the 2010 O-lines were good. But my thoughts are he's a KW guy and his time without KW has expired. He'd have to be a Wickline-kinda guy to not be shown the door if they're changing things up. By Wickline, I mean a guy whom your team establishes its identity through (OSU always has a great OL). The kind of guy you don't even think twice about canning. Patton and Kittle are both lumped in with not bringing the pain on OUr OL the last two years. So, I'm not sure how that works. Is Kittle getting a pass due to time on the job? Bob like him more that JP? He's in charge of TEs and OTs. No pulse at TE for two years, but Stephenson, Williams, Thompson and Johnson have obviously done well. The players seem to love both of these guys. I doubt it's the guys not responding to coaching or bad blood with the team.

[sooneron]

If he goes, I hope the rumors of Mangino coming back are not true. I mean, I like the 'fat man' personally, but OU doesn't need the baggage...

This could be taken so many ways...

[8timechamps]

Patton has had some great success here. 2006-2008 and even the 2010 O-lines were good. But my thoughts are he's a KW guy and his time without KW has expired. He'd have to be a Wickline-kinda guy to not be shown the door if they're changing things up. By Wickline, I mean a guy whom your team establishes its identity through (OSU always has a great OL). The kind of guy you don't even think twice about canning. Patton and Kittle are both lumped in with not bringing the pain on OUr OL the last two years. So, I'm not sure how that works. Is Kittle getting a pass due to time on the job? Bob like him more that JP? He's in charge of TEs and OTs. No pulse at TE for two years, but Stephenson, Williams, Thompson and Johnson have obviously done well. The players seem to love both of these guys. I doubt it's the guys not responding to coaching or bad blood with the team.

That's why I haven't jumped on board the "fire Kittle" bandwagon. It's easy to say he's not a good coach, but he was part of keeping a very patchwork offensive line working in 2012. Like him, or not, that's pretty impressive.

My concern is Kittle's recruiting ability (or lack of it). OU offered 28 OTs this year, and landed two (1 high school, 1 JUCO). Neither would be considered OU's first choice. Maybe this year was an exception, and next year won't be like that. Otherwise, you have to wonder how long he has in Norman. In college, it's not good enough to only be a good coach, you have to be able to recruit at a high level.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Strait people.. Strait

[ashley]

If Bob was going to let someone go he would have done it so they would have had time to get a job.

[Scott D]

Strait people.. Strait

they get heupel wrong more than strait.

[badger]

Stoops hates the media, doesn't he? :D Or at least he hates it when they read message boards and social media:


With all of the chatter on the Internet beginning to surface, Stoops was asked during Wednesday’s news conference if staff changes were likely.

“How do you speculate that?” Stoops answered. “It’s not something that I ever talk about publicly.”

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/sportspost.aspx?Social_media_Stoops_friend_recruit ing_and_foe_rumors/12-18948)

[KantoSooner]

He does seem to let it get to him too much. Reporters are like that, like 7 year olds playing soccer; everybody runs to the ball wherever it is without any plan or strategy. If your job involves interface with media types, get used to it, issue clear guidelines and, if people insist on asking questions you've said you won't answer, don't even repeat the rule, just call on someone else. If the reporter is too stupid to 'get it', don''t call on them ever again. Or have them banned from the presser.

[goingoneight]

I don't have a problem with asking Bob about staff or personnel changes. It's guys like Blevins, Rodgers, Hoover and Traber who irritate me because they don't ask the questions; but rather try and word someone into a corner.
Example: "Hey, Bob... got any backup plans at tackle since Dusty is out bashing skulls?" -Trammel
Seriously? Ever think that rumors or reports are innacurate or that people are innocent until proven guilty?
Example 2: "Bob, what's the difference between Saunders getting to play and McGee suspended?"
Ummm... let's see. They're two different people in two different cases that had nothing to do with football? That's like saying Sam and Landry are the same guy because they're Christian QBs for OU. My guess is Whitney Jones and Karly Kloss disagree with that statement.
Example 3: "Bob, what can be done to make your team tougher than they've been?"
-Hoover
I'm glad Bob put him in his place twice on this issue. Losing a game against a good team doesn't make you weak or "not tough."

Here's a little revision from a former journalism student:
"Bob, what's the situation at tackle like now with the suspended starter?"
"Bob, what's the situation with McGee?"
"Bob, what's the situation with Saunders?"
"Are the situations similar in anyway?"
"Bob, what beyond the schemes do you feel was the difference tonight?"

Journalism died when the business of reporting the news became the business of selling papers.

[hvhurricane]

I don't have a problem with asking Bob about staff or personnel changes. It's guys like Blevins, Rodgers, Hoover and Traber who irritate me because they don't ask the questions; but rather try and word someone into a corner.
Example: "Hey, Bob... got any backup plans at tackle since Dusty is out bashing skulls?" -Trammel
Seriously? Ever think that rumors or reports are innacurate or that people are innocent until proven guilty?
Example 2: "Bob, what's the difference between Saunders getting to play and McGee suspended?"
Ummm... let's see. They're two different people in two different cases that had nothing to do with football? That's like saying Sam and Landry are the same guy because they're Christian QBs for OU. My guess is Whitney Jones and Karly Kloss disagree with that statement.
Example 3: "Bob, what can be done to make your team tougher than they've been?"
-Hoover
I'm glad Bob put him in his place twice on this issue. Losing a game against a good team doesn't make you weak or "not tough."

Here's a little revision from a former journalism student:
"Bob, what's the situation at tackle like now with the suspended starter?"
"Bob, what's the situation with McGee?"
"Bob, what's the situation with Saunders?"
"Are the situations similar in anyway?"
"Bob, what beyond the schemes do you feel was the difference tonight?"

Journalism died when the business of reporting the news became the business of selling papers.

I don't know why anyone would want to listen to, or cover a BS press conference. It is not like you are going to get any real information. I would love for him to answer some of the real questions Spencer Tillman has about where the program is headed right now, but that would never happen.

[SoonerMom2]

Today at The Oklahoman they had an article about an OU Sooner going in the first round -- Lane Taylor and then referred you to ESPN Insider. I have Insider so I wanted to see if ESPN was as dumb as The Oklahoman - they were not - they had Lane Johnson not Lane Taylor. Never went back to see if they changed the article which I assume they did after getting clobbered. It wasn't using Taylor once but all through the article. A lot of local sports media have the integrity of political reporters - zero, zip, nada.

[8timechamps]

I don't know why anyone would want to listen to, or cover a BS press conference. It is not like you are going to get any real information. I would love for him to answer some of the real questions Spencer Tillman has about where the program is headed right now, but that would never happen.

Personaly, I think Bob does just fine in interviews. It's a catch 22 for him, if he doesn't answer every single question, then he's being evasive. If he does answer, he's coming up with excuses. To some folks, it doesn't matter what he says or doesn't say, he can't win.

[8timechamps]

Today at The Oklahoman they had an article about an OU Sooner going in the first round -- Lane Taylor and then referred you to ESPN Insider. I have Insider so I wanted to see if ESPN was as dumb as The Oklahoman - they were not - they had Lane Johnson not Lane Taylor. Never went back to see if they changed the article which I assume they did after getting clobbered. It wasn't using Taylor once but all through the article. A lot of local sports media have the integrity of political reporters - zero, zip, nada.

I think it's gotten worse in recent years. I don't know if it's because blogging has become so popular, and maybe there aren't as many good journalists available, or if it's just flat out laziness, but it's definitely gotten worse.

[8timechamps]

An unconfirmed rumor has Patton taking a job at Illinois.

There's lot of coordinator/position coaching fluctuation around college football right now, so I'm assuming this will all be settled in the next week or so.

[SoonerMarkVA]

An unconfirmed rumor has Patton taking a job at Illinois.

There's lot of coordinator/position coaching fluctuation around college football right now, so I'm assuming this will all be settled in the next week or so.

I wonder if Bob's still trying to get key members of the band back together and will go for Mangino, assuming Patton is the guy leaving.

[sooner KB]

I wonder if Bob's still trying to get key members of the band back together and will go for Mangino, assuming Patton is the guy leaving.

That would make a lot of sense to me, but would Stoops have 3 co-offensive coordinators? I guess he could. Just seems a little weird to me.

[FirstandGoal]

Okay so those of you more in the know about these things than I.

What are the pros and cons of bringing back the fat man?

[JLEW1818]

Okay so those of you more in the know about these things than I.

What are the pros and cons of bringing back the fat man?

Dollar menu will go back up

[8timechamps]

Okay so those of you more in the know about these things than I.

What are the pros and cons of bringing back the fat man?

A slightly stronger gravitational field in Norman.

[cleller]

[QUOTE=FirstandGoal;3586724]Okay so those of you more in the know about these things than I.

What are the pros and cons of bringing back the fat man?[/QUOTE

I probably don't know any more than you, but just to toss out:

Pros:
Better fundamentals for the O-line
Better knowledge of run blocking?
Good overall offense coaching experience.

Cons
May not be popular with players
May create some tension within coaching hierarchy?

[Scott D]

Cons

Do we have enough of a medical staff to keep all the quarterbacks healthy enough to play with him as a coach?

[SoonerDood]

Cons: would have to sign 15 Olinemen every year just to keep 2.

[Blue]

He took KU to an Orange Bowl. Think about that. He's a great coach. I'd love to have the fatman back.

[Collier11]

Great Coach and dont think Joe C and Boren havent covered the aggression issues. I would be shocked if we have any big issues

[goingoneight]

OU needs a more aggressive and physical O-Line. This seems like it would be a step in the wrong direction. I could understand hiring Mangino if we had KU's problems or LSU's problems... but the 2000 and 2001 offenses were both the same if not way worse than what we already have trouble with. Heupel, Hybl and White were on the run a lot as QBs in that system. Reesing at KU was, too.

[Soonerfan88]

I remember the OL not being all that under Mangino also. And we had A LOT of players leaving. We are finally getting a full complement of OL, do we really need to go back to that?

I lived in Leavenworth, KS while Mangino was at KU and he had many more enemies than just whiny players. He was known to go off on anyone who got in his way or told him no, basically walked around like he ruled the universe. It was that, much more than player complaints, which got him fired. Maybe he has those problems solved, but I don't think Boren or Joe C. are ready to make OU the guinea pig for his return.

[picasso]

I remember the OL not being all that under Mangino also. And we had A LOT of players leaving. We are finally getting a full complement of OL, do we really need to go back to that?

I lived in Leavenworth, KS while Mangino was at KU and he had many more enemies than just whiny players. He was known to go off on anyone who got in his way or told him no, basically walked around like he ruled the universe. It was that, much more than player complaints, which got him fired. Maybe he has those problems solved, but I don't think Boren or Joe C. are ready to make OU the guinea pig for his return.
Mangino only turned KU into a BCS team. KU.

[OkieThunderLion]

Mangino only turned KU into a BCS team. KU.
And then back to 1-7 his last year.

Was he any better than Glen Mason there?

[OkieThunderLion]

Mangino became OC at OU in '00. His offense's literally got worse every week he was on the job. Petering out in the '01 Bedlam loss, and then everyone was happy he was gone.

[olevetonahill]

Strait people.. Strait

Yes, Most of us are. But whats our sexual orientation got to do with anything?

[Stooper]

I don't understand how bringing back assistants that were on the staff when we won a national title is a bad thing. Several years ago, people were mad at the fact that Bob would not fire assistants, but it looks to me like he is being aggressive and demanding more success. He obviously wasn't happy with Venables, Martinez, or Patton. I know several guys who played on the 2000 NC Team, one of them got hurt and ended up assisting Mangino on the O-Line. He told me Mangino is an @&$.!, but one heckuva a offensive line coach. Hopefully he brings back the toughness we have been missing at that posistion. Boomer Sooner

[8timechamps]

I don't understand how bringing back assistants that were on the staff when we won a national title is a bad thing. Several years ago, people were mad at the fact that Bob would not fire assistants, but it looks to me like he is being aggressive and demanding more success. He obviously wasn't happy with Venables, Martinez, or Patton. I know several guys who played on the 2000 NC Team, one of them got hurt and ended up assisting Mangino on the O-Line. He told me Mangino is an @&$.!, but one heckuva a offensive line coach. Hopefully he brings back the toughness we have been missing at that posistion. Boomer Sooner

Well, right now it's all speculation anyway. We know there's going to be a change, we just don't know who is affected.

[Stooper]

I would not be surprised if Mangino is Run Game Coord. Norvell Is OC and Heupel back as QB coach. Speculation yes, but I am happy that it is obvious that Stoops is not content with the way things have been.

[yermom]

i think we'd see three co-OCs before that happened :D

[Salt City Sooner]

KU's schedule took them to a BCS bowl that year; they beat absolutely NOBODY of consequence (Central Michigan was the only team they defeated who won as many as 8 games). I'm no Mizzou fan by any stretch, but they deserved that bid over KU 8 days a week.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Mangino became OC at OU in '00. His offense's literally got worse every week he was on the job. Petering out in the '01 OU-OSU loss, and then everyone was happy he was gone.

Things were fine until Heupel's bursa sac started being a huge issue starting in the Texas Tech game and beyond. In 2001, White tore his knee and Hybl was playing with a broken shoulder on his throwing side and the offensive line was depleted due to injuries. Those aren't excuses, those are reasons.

[OkieThunderLion]

I don't understand how bringing back assistants that were on the staff when we won a national title is a bad thing. Several years ago, people were mad at the fact that Bob would not fire assistants, but it looks to me like he is being aggressive and demanding more success. He obviously wasn't happy with Venables, Martinez, or Patton. I know several guys who played on the 2000 NC Team, one of them got hurt and ended up assisting Mangino on the O-Line. He told me Mangino is an @&$.!, but one heckuva a offensive line coach. Hopefully he brings back the toughness we have been missing at that posistion. Boomer Sooner

If Stoops wasn't happy w/ Venables, why was he offered a raise to stay?

[OkieThunderLion]

I would not be surprised if Mangino is Run Game Coord. Norvell Is OC and Heupel back as QB coach. Speculation yes, but I am happy that it is obvious that Stoops is not content with the way things have been.

Kill me.

3 of the worst running offenses in Oklahoma history; '99-'01.

[OkieThunderLion]

Things were fine until Heupel's bursa sac started being a huge issue starting in the Texas Tech game and beyond. In 2001, White tore his knee and Hybl was playing with a broken shoulder on his throwing side and the offensive line was depleted due to injuries. Those aren't excuses, those are reasons.
Combined with, the schematic advantage he inherited started to wear off, as the responsible coach was gone, and defenses adjusted.

No coincidence that when Kevin Wilson arrived, things instantly got better again, especially with the run game.

[Stooper]

If Venables would have been given opportunity to call defensive plays, he probably would have stayed. It was a demotion in my opinion.

[wishbonesooner]

Millard needs to see lots of action regardless of what we put together for a passing game.

Millard should be moved to linebacker. He's only gonna get 3 or 4 carries a game max, why waste his talent? Move him where we're needing help the most.

[Ground_Attack]

Kill me.

3 of the worst running offenses in Oklahoma history; '99-'01.

That would explain why Quentin Griffin was about 1 good game away from being the all time leading rusher in OU history.

[Salt City Sooner]

That would explain why Quentin Griffin was about 1 good game away from being the all time leading rusher in OU history.
Q got almost half of his career total in the one year he played after MM left & Wilson came in:

'99- 44 att.- 285 yds.
'00- 189 att. 783 yds.
'01- 201 att. 860 yds.
'02- 287 att., 1,884 yds.

OU's team rushing averages those years:

'99- 27 att., 104 yds.
'00- 34 att., 129 yds.
'01- 32 att., 115 yds.
'02- 42 att., 191 yds.

[OkieThunderLion]

That would explain why Quentin Griffin was about 1 good game away from being the all time leading rusher in OU history.

You really want to use Griffin as an example to support Mangino?

'00 - 783 yards, 4.1 ypc
'01 - 804 yards, 4.4 ypc
'02 - 1884 yards, 6.6 ypc

I'll let you figure out when Mangino left.

[OkieThunderLion]

If Venables would have been given opportunity to call defensive plays, he probably would have stayed. It was a demotion in my opinion.

Had nothing to do w/ Bob not being happy with Venables (your words). Everything to do w/ brother Mike needing a job, and needing one in proximity to Dallas, where ex wife and kids now live.

[Sooner91ATL]

For this fan, it doesn't matter who the OL coach is as long as he can fulfill this requirement: go out and recruit some full-size men who can bend their knees, get off the ball low, and create some gaps at the LOS. Nothing against our current student athletes on the OL, who are certainly Sooners through and through and giving it their best. If I were in charge, and zeus knows I am not, I would hire any coach that could recruit OL well and then help to develop his OL coaching skills if that were a concern.

Back in Switzer's last couple of years - and I was on campus during that time living in the jock dorms- some of the coaches were not um...very good, but their all star athletes made them look like geniuses. Getting the best OL athletes would make even Patton look good.

[Taxman71]

This thread reminds me how much we miss Kevin Wilson.

[Stooper]

You bet, Chris Brown off right tackle 4 times in a row from the 2. Don't miss Kevin Wilson at all. Ok......maybe a little bit.

[FaninAma]

Mangino became OC at OU in '00. His offense's literally got worse every week he was on the job. Petering out in the '01 OU-OSU loss, and then everyone was happy he was gone.
Everybody? I think Heupel's injury had a lot to do with OU's offensive woes at the end of the season. I don't think Mangino got into Stoop's dog house until later and it had more to do with the attrition of offensive linemen in the program.

[yermom]

Everybody? I think Heupel's injury had a lot to do with OU's offensive woes at the end of the season. I don't think Mangino got into Stoop's dog house until later and it had more to do with the attrition of offensive linemen in the program.

thankfully we fixed that problem

[Scott D]

I'd swear it wasn't all that long ago that everyone gave all the credit for 2000 to Heupel, and none to Mangino. Wow how strangely things can change with revisionist history.

[EatLeadCommie]

Mangino was unimpressive as an OC. I remember that plain as day. In 2000 he was fine, but that was to be expected after 1999. Heupel hurt his elbow midway through the season and the offense suffered accordingly. In 2001, our offense was offensive. We had no line to speak of and were working Hybl into the grind, as well as losing both Hybl and White at various points of the season. I'm not sure how much of the blame for that can be attributed to Mangino, but I remember watching that team at the end of the year against Arky in the Cotton Bowl and it was just terrible. Fortunately, Arky was the one team in the country that year with an offense worse than ours. We also had a badass D.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Sheesh, if you think the whining about our recruiting is bad now. If we have Mangino and Kittle on the same staff it is going to be a bloodbath of negative recruiting. Kittle has proven to be an excellent coach, but that poor guy can't sign anyone. He could probably put 10 consecutive 1st round picks into the pros and recruits would still believe the negativity.

[8timechamps]

The more I think about it, the less likely I see Mangino coming to OU. I'm sure he would love to, but I don't think it'll happen. First, unless he wanted to be a position coach, he'd be out of luck. Two offensive coordinators is pushing it, there is no way in hell there will be three. Secondly, I'm not sure Mangino's pride could handle being low man on the poll. Lastly (and most importantly), whomever comes in will come in part because of their ability to recruit. Not Mangino's strong suit.

[Soonerjeepman]

I remember the OL not being all that under Mangino also. And we had A LOT of players leaving. We are finally getting a full complement of OL, do we really need to go back to that?

I lived in Leavenworth, KS while Mangino was at KU and he had many more enemies than just whiny players. He was known to go off on anyone who got in his way or told him no, basically walked around like he ruled the universe. It was that, much more than player complaints, which got him fired. Maybe he has those problems solved, but I don't think Boren or Joe C. are ready to make OU the guinea pig for his return.

went after the HS refs during one of his son's games....principal told him no more sideline pass. Not saying he isn't a good coach, and hasn't changed...but there were issues.

[goingoneight]

I really don't get why this has to be some big secret now. NSD is here, you kept the guys you expected to sign, JP is supposedly interviewing at other jobs... but here we are being all secretive again.
Tweeter stalkers, go stalk a couple of OU linemen and see who spills the beans first! :D

[8timechamps]

I have a tiny nugget.

Kittle isn't going anywhere.

[SoonerMarkVA]

Sheesh, if you think the whining about our recruiting is bad now. If we have Mangino and Kittle on the same staff it is going to be a bloodbath of negative recruiting. Kittle has proven to be an excellent coach, but that poor guy can't sign anyone. He could probably put 10 consecutive 1st round picks into the pros and recruits would still believe the negativity.

Does anyone have insight as to why he's struggling? I know very little about the relative strengths of the coaches' abilities to recruit.

[SoonerInHSV]

I really don't get why this has to be some big secret now. NSD is here, you kept the guys you expected to sign, JP is supposedly interviewing at other jobs... but here we are being all secretive again.
Tweeter stalkers, go stalk a couple of OU linemen and see who spills the beans first! :D

Because if you let him find another job first it does not look like he was fired, better for Patton that way. It's good for Stoops because he does not look like he hangs his guys out to dry when they have problems. In fact Stoops probably will help him find another job since it does not sound like Patton is leaving on bad terms just was not getting the job done. Just because you need to get rid of a guy doesn't mean you can't treat him right on the way out.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Does anyone have insight as to why he's struggling? I know very little about the relative strengths of the coaches' abilities to recruit.

Because he has only been a football coach for 2-3 years. They just bring out the guys resume and absolutely demolish him.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I have a tiny nugget.

Kittle isn't going anywhere.

I don't think he should go anywhere (although you have to understand that our ability to recruit highly touted guys for his positions - OT/TE - is going to be impaired for the next 5 years). The guy will live or die by his evaluation ability.

The issue is whether you can afford to have 2 coaches on a staff that are incredibly easy to negative recruit against.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Because he has only been a football coach for 2-3 years. They just bring out the guys resume and absolutely demolish him.

Well, he can at least play the Lane Johnson card now. Every little bit helps. :)

[Boomer.....]

SoonerScoop.com‏@SoonerScoop

BREAKING NEWS: James Patton out at OU. Patton held meeting with his offensive line this morning to tell them he will not return in 2013.
.

[goingoneight]

Poor JP is a scapegoat and nothing less. Sure... we could stand to be a more physical offense... but his guys have done really well for what Josh and KW have designed for us to do on offense. If I'm Illinois or Indiana or whoever hires him, I'm ecstatic. He did awesome with a number of guys here since 2006.
Now, my only hope is that if we're trading in our old faithful one-owner that we're not trading it in for a Toyota death machine. IOW, whoever (Mangino) comes in better deliver in a MUCH better way and FAST if we're sticking it to a decent coach. I felt the same way about Mike replacing Martinez. Even though the rest of the defense sucked, the DBs did great.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

8X...Tha Man. He called it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Poor JP is a scapegoat and nothing less. Sure... we could stand to be a more physical offense... but his guys have done really well for what Josh and KW have designed for us to do on offense. If I'm Illinois or Indiana or whoever hires him, I'm ecstatic. He did awesome with a number of guys here since 2006.
Now, my only hope is that if we're trading in our old faithful one-owner that we're not trading it in for a Toyota death machine. IOW, whoever (Mangino) comes in better deliver in a MUCH better way and FAST if we're sticking it to a decent coach. I felt the same way about Mike replacing Martinez. Even though the rest of the defense sucked, the DBs did great.

Issue of not being enough in the family so to speak?

[cvsooner]

Gone to Indiana, according to the Oklahoman via a news release from Indiana University. Will coach defensive line, is recruiting and special teams coordinator.

[Widescreen]

Because if you let him find another job first it does not look like he was fired, better for Patton that way. It's good for Stoops because he does not look like he hangs his guys out to dry when they have problems.
There's something to be said for expecting results.

[MichiganSooner]

Dollar menu will go back up

Will need to revise seating on a plane carrying the team. 3 lineman assigned to the right side of aisle to offset Mangino sitting on the left side of the aisle.

[picasso]

KU's schedule took them to a BCS bowl that year; they beat absolutely NOBODY of consequence (Central Michigan was the only team they defeated who won as many as 8 games). I'm no Mizzou fan by any stretch, but they deserved that bid over KU 8 days a week.
Yet they blew a game to a Missouri team that was ranked #1 at one point that season. I don't give a **** if they played Iowa State every week. Some of you guys don't want to admit Mangina can coach a lick. And who the hell said he was going to be our OC?

[Salt City Sooner]

Yet they blew a game to a Missouri team that was ranked #1 at one point that season. I don't give a **** if they played Iowa State every week. Some of you guys don't want to admit Mangina can coach a lick. And who the hell said he was going to be our OC?
I'll more than willingly admit it; like most who point out that year say, it was KU after all. Just pointing out the fact that it was a perfect storm for KU that year (best team he ever had there, plus a schedule that '84 BYU would be proud of). Missouri flat got jacked out of that bid though. They had a better win (over Rose Bowl-bound Illinois), a harder schedule, & as you pointed out, beat KU on a neutral field. MU didn't get that BCS bid for one reason: they lost a game that KU couldn't even qualify to play in.

[Soonerfan88]

It isn't about Mangino's coaching abilities. If it were, no one would be b!tching about Patton because his lines were as good or better at run blocking than Mangino's. It's about recruiting and player development. Mangino's past will be a HUGE negative even if the other teams don't say a thing. Every parent will read the stories online and say no on their own. Also, you can't develop a player if they don't stay and Mangino ran off way too many lineman.

[papawlambert]

Unfortunately for West Virginia, I believe it will be Bill Bedenbaugh. He is a great Oline coach and recruiter.

[goingoneight]

Looks like more Nevada Pistols Firing Offense in the coming years. Hopefully we find the RG3/Kaepernick version of it rather than what it usually ends up being... which is lame.

[cleller]

There's nothing complex about this. In practice, the O-line lines up vs the D-line. Mangino is behind them barking instructions and threats, and ravenous with hunger.
When the ball is snapped, Mangino is going to take a bite out of the first guy he catches. Kinda like The Walking Dead.

Viva Mangino!

[goingoneight]

I'm not in favor of anybody who is a hugs and handshakes coach like Clap Clown down in Austin... but having heard what we heard about Mangino from all three of his previous coaching stops, I think this time it's the right move to tell him no. If people want to ignore what Venables and Kevin Wilson meant to OU and wish them out the door, there's no way in hell they shouldn't wish Mangino stays out, too. There's a difference between saying--

"Get up, sissy boy! Let's GO!"

... and making comments to a black player about picking cotton. There's no denying Mangino's temper is Russian Roulette in OU's current state. I'm sorry... but you're delusional if you deny it. The 1999, 2000 and 2001 team didn't have Tweeter to spout off about Mangino the way the current teams do. Also, we had nowhere to go but up when Mangino first came aboard. We're not exactly in horrible shape right now. Just need to adjust some things and upgrade a bit.

[hvhurricane]

Unless this leads to us hiring some new blood as an OC, there really will not be any change next year.

[goingoneight]

I would tend to agree... but we'll see. I don't think it's any coincidence that when OU played a ball control, physical offense that their porous defense looked a lot better statistically. Hell, look at 2006. The 2008-style offense only works if you have the horses across the board to run it. That team was 3-deep almost everywhere.

[prrriiide]

THIS is who we need:

http://www.arkansasexpats.com/2012/12/13/3765260/sam-pittman-hired-to-be-arkansas-offensive-line-coach (http://www.arkansasexpats.com/2012/12/13/3765260/sam-pittman-hired-to-be-arkansas-offensive-line-coach)

For all of Tennessee's woes the last couple of years, Pittman's OL was really damned good. Despite the fact that he was Flake's last OL coach, no coach can be expected to perform to their full potential when the head guy is a massive explosion of idiot.

[Monster Zero]

I'm not in favor of anybody who is a hugs and handshakes coach like Clap Clown down in Austin... but having heard what we heard about Mangino from all three of his previous coaching stops, I think this time it's the right move to tell him no. If people want to ignore what Venables and Kevin Wilson meant to OU and wish them out the door, there's no way in hell they shouldn't wish Mangino stays out, too. There's a difference between saying--

"Get up, sissy boy! Let's GO!"

... and making comments to a black player about picking cotton. There's no denying Mangino's temper is Russian Roulette in OU's current state. I'm sorry... but you're delusional if you deny it. The 1999, 2000 and 2001 team didn't have Tweeter to spout off about Mangino the way the current teams do. Also, we had nowhere to go but up when Mangino first came aboard. We're not exactly in horrible shape right now. Just need to adjust some things and upgrade a bit.

^^^ This here.

David Boren remembers having to deal with a couple of families of players who were nearly killed by a sadistic coach. I think the way he sees it is there's a difference in demanding, hardnosed, gruff... and abusive. (He also remembers having to deal with the drunk a*****e coach involved in the situation.)

He ain't gonna take any chances with a guy who's personally abusive even if it is just with his mouth and even if he is sober. Sober makes it worse in a way; he can't claim that it was the booze doing it.

[8timechamps]

Bill Bedenbaugh will be named the new OL coach.