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View Full Version : So, Which Company Will Be The Next Apple?



FaninAma
1/22/2013, 06:06 PM
Apparently Steve Jobs death was a blow that Apple may not be able to overcome. If Apple is no longer the driving force behind the technology engine that has driven the investment markets for the past 2 decades which company appears poised on the horizon to take its place? Or has the demise of Apple been greatly exaggerated?

Apple isn't the only former shining star of the tech world that has fallen on hard times recently. Intel, HP, Dell and others seem destined for the trash heap of history.

8timechamps
1/22/2013, 06:22 PM
If only I knew the answer to that question...

I think within the next decade, there will be one or two bio-med companies that revolutionize the medical world. When that will happen, and who that will be is anyone's guess.

As for Apple, what a lot of folks don't realize is that Steve Jobs wasn't just an innovator, he was a hell of a CEO. Apple didn't miss an estimate the last 5 years he served. Since his death, Apple has missed estimated 3 out of the 5 quarters they've reported. That's going to spook any investor.

yermom
1/22/2013, 06:45 PM
Samsung seems to be doing some good stuff

BigTip
1/22/2013, 09:26 PM
McDonalds is getting aggressive by bringing back the McRib. Keep an eye on them.


But really, what do you mean, "the next Apple?"
Do you mean in introducing product? Or being so friggin profitable? Or the talk of the world?

Chuck Bao
1/23/2013, 01:19 AM
新鴻基公司

hawaii 5-0
1/23/2013, 02:21 AM
Samsung seems to be doing some good stuff


True that.


A rumour that Microsoft is looking at buying Dell.

5-0

picasso
1/23/2013, 02:48 AM
I'm really hoping the government will continue to nationalize things. That should lead us to the cutting edge of innovation in everything.

yermom
1/23/2013, 04:11 AM
True that.


A rumour that Microsoft is looking at buying Dell.

5-0

that could prove interesting...

FaninAma
1/23/2013, 11:15 AM
True that.


A rumour that Microsoft is looking at buying Dell.

5-0

I could see some advantage to that. Personally I would look at the biomed sector if the ACA doesn't kill research in that area.

badger
1/23/2013, 12:54 PM
Apple just needs it's next big iThing. You can only buy a new iPhone or iPad so many times before you step back and say "Why do I need a new one when I already have one?" or "This other company has a better, cheaper product!"

yermom
1/23/2013, 01:04 PM
Apple needs to stop their lawsuits and get back to making kickass stuff

hawaii 5-0
1/23/2013, 01:09 PM
Anyone see Google or IBM today?

5-0

badger
1/23/2013, 01:25 PM
Apple needs to stop their lawsuits and get back to making kickass stuff

Agree. Their innovation lately was well-documented in those Samsung ads:
nf5-Prx19ZM

And what did they do to the iPad? Shrank it. Oooooo

yermom
1/23/2013, 01:40 PM
before iPhone, there is no way someone like my mom has a smart phone. they changed everything

now they are lagging behind

badger
1/23/2013, 01:56 PM
before iPhone, there is no way someone like my mom has a smart phone. they changed everything

now they are lagging behind

What changed it for my mom was having grandkids. The dumbphones mostly couldn't display photos, nor receive them via text :)

I remember when it was a big deal that a phone could give you sports scores, then take photos, then have full keyboards for texting. I wonder what the next big advancement that we'll look back and laugh at will be

8timechamps
1/23/2013, 04:03 PM
If we're talking about the "driving force that will move the markets in technology", it's not going to be Samsung. Not like Apple did anyway.

KantoSooner
1/23/2013, 04:10 PM
The next innovation Samsung is involved with will be their first.
They are a great manufacturing company. And they have interest free money guaranteed by the Korean government, no pollution code to deal with (if you're ever there, look up at the hills behind their flat panel plant and goggle at the brown grass and trees just above and downwind from their exhaust stacks. Why! it's almost as though acid gases were being vented!) and they have no labor law to speak of.
Apple may have peaked but will be with us for decades to come.
The next real 'driver' will come out of nowhere. It'll be my company. Please peem me if you want to know more. I really can't tell you much now, but you want to be in on it. I'll send banking information and you can send money. Trust me.

8timechamps
1/23/2013, 04:13 PM
The next innovation Samsung is involved with will be their first.
They are a great manufacturing company. And they have interest free money guaranteed by the Korean government, no pollution code to deal with (if you're ever there, look up at the hills behind their flat panel plant and goggle at the brown grass and trees just above and downwind from their exhaust stacks. Why! it's almost as though acid gases were being vented!) and they have no labor law to speak of.
Apple may have peaked but will be with us for decades to come.
The next real 'driver' will come out of nowhere. It'll be my company. Please peem me if you want to know more. I really can't tell you much now, but you want to be in on it. I'll send banking information and you can send money. Trust me.

You nailed it. Samsung took advantage of a customer base that wanted a smart phone not made by Apple. Samsung is a solid company, with decent numbers, but they are not a market innovator.

yermom
1/23/2013, 04:19 PM
well, they also were making displays for iPhones. Apple really was messing with the wrong company.

pphilfran
1/23/2013, 05:08 PM
Anyone see Google or IBM today?

5-0


They rocked...

APPL down 25 (488) in after hours after earnings announcement...

jkjsooner
1/23/2013, 05:16 PM
新鴻基公司

Darn, if only I could read that I'd be the next billionaire.

Oh, well...

Midtowner
1/23/2013, 05:29 PM
I wanted to buy some Samsung stock, but my broker doesn't have access to the South Korean exchange and they're not listed here. Apple's biggest problem seems to be that while they are a great innovator, they seem to be trying to ration out their innovation. It'd be a good strategy except competitors will always be able to keep up that way.

As far as the lawsuits go, Samsung violated multiple patents, intellectual property means something and Apple is entitled to protect its interests. Samsung should have done what everyone else in the world is supposed to do--license the technology.

KantoSooner
1/23/2013, 05:42 PM
well, they also were making displays for iPhones. Apple really was messing with the wrong company.

Or vice versa. When Samsung first started to market a rip off iPod, Apple was buying batteries from them. Tim Cook went into an annual contract negotiation on the batteries and laid down a battery in the middle of the table next to Samsung's mp3 player and told them 'choose. You can't have both.' After Samsung backed down, Cook turned around and, a year later, once Samsung's mp3 player was out of date, switched the battery contract to LG and to Motorola in Tianjin, too.
Even though Apple has won massive judgements against Samsung, it's really pennies on the dollar in the game they're playing and Samsung has the resource to hang in and fight, plus they will always be sheltered by the Korean government.
If you're Apple, you simply have to keep moving fast, stay perceived as the Mercedes product (and Samsung, though they have a fundamentally newer phone, don't yet enjoy Apple's well earned quality rep), win in China, win in India and you'll be just fine.
The real question for them is: what utterly new consumer electronic market will they revolutionize? I know Jobs wanted to redo the TV. Maybe that's it. Maybe iTunes goes Pandora for a subscription. How about a direct brain/computer interface? you've seen the little helicopters you control with your brain. Why not a little bluetooth patch on each temple and you can simply 'remember' things waaaaaaaaaaaay better than ever before.

KantoSooner
1/23/2013, 05:43 PM
I wanted to buy some Samsung stock, but my broker doesn't have access to the South Korean exchange and they're not listed here. Apple's biggest problem seems to be that while they are a great innovator, they seem to be trying to ration out their innovation. It'd be a good strategy except competitors will always be able to keep up that way.

As far as the lawsuits go, Samsung violated multiple patents, intellectual property means something and Apple is entitled to protect its interests. Samsung should have done what everyone else in the world is supposed to do--license the technology.

See if they have ADR's listed in NYC. It's an awfully large equity market for them to be ignoring.

pphilfran
1/23/2013, 05:50 PM
See if they have ADR's listed in NYC. It's an awfully large equity market for them to be ignoring.


One would think so....

APPL now down 51 after hours

Midtowner
1/23/2013, 05:56 PM
See if they have ADR's listed in NYC. It's an awfully large equity market for them to be ignoring.

They trade on Seoul, Luxembourg and Londons' exchanges. I have an Edward Jones broker who can't buy it.

pphilfran
1/23/2013, 05:58 PM
They trade on Seoul, Luxembourg and Londons' exchanges. I have an Edward Jones broker who can't buy it.


I looked and you are correct..though I am still surprised they don't have an ADR

Midtowner
1/23/2013, 06:09 PM
I looked and you are correct..though I am still surprised they don't have an ADR

I've looked in to it because it's an obvious good move.

8timechamps
1/23/2013, 06:27 PM
I wanted to buy some Samsung stock, but my broker doesn't have access to the South Korean exchange and they're not listed here. Apple's biggest problem seems to be that while they are a great innovator, they seem to be trying to ration out their innovation. It'd be a good strategy except competitors will always be able to keep up that way.

As far as the lawsuits go, Samsung violated multiple patents, intellectual property means something and Apple is entitled to protect its interests. Samsung should have done what everyone else in the world is supposed to do--license the technology.

Change brokers if you are that interested. A big wire-house shouldn't have any problem buying off of the KRX. Most brokers trade individual stocks on commission, so it could be (unless you're looking to put a lot into it) that he doesn't want to mess with it.

8timechamps
1/23/2013, 06:28 PM
I looked and you are correct..though I am still surprised they don't have an ADR

There's no direct US counterpart*, you have to buy on the KRX.

*EditI just checked and you can buy SSLNF.PK shares on the US exchange, but it's trading at $1,309/share. But they're F shares and trade on a 30 day moving average.

Ton Loc
1/23/2013, 08:05 PM
Apple is an innovator? Since when...maybe the first iphone? They were great marketers led by an evil genius named Steve Jobs. Interesting that they've managed to f it up this quickly. Jobs supposedly left them a five year plan.

Midtowner
1/23/2013, 08:17 PM
Apple is an innovator? Since when...maybe the first iphone? They were great marketers led by an evil genius named Steve Jobs. Interesting that they've managed to f it up this quickly. Jobs supposedly left them a five year plan.

They're sitting on a mountain of patents, and if they would just start rolling things out a little faster, they could flatten the competition, at least until the competition started copying them.

FaninAma
1/23/2013, 08:23 PM
Wish I had had the guts to short Apple yesterday but the way the Fed has destroyed any volatility in the market I will avoid that strategy for the foreseeable future.

8timechamps
1/23/2013, 08:40 PM
Wish I had had the guts to short Apple yesterday but the way the Fed has destroyed any volatility in the market I will avoid that strategy for the foreseeable future.

Apple has been really sketchy lately. You'd have to be pretty ballsy to go at it from any direction.

Ton Loc
1/24/2013, 09:17 AM
They're sitting on a mountain of patents, and if they would just start rolling things out a little faster, they could flatten the competition, at least until the competition started copying them.

People could argue back and forth on who copies who. (They do, in court.) Patents don't equal innovation. Patent lawsuits kill innovation. Apple is too concerned with one over another.

Really, it's not all Apple's fault for their current downgrade. A big part of their downgrade is just the fact that Jobs is gone. The level of scrutiny and the estimates they need to hit are idiotic. For example, they sold more Iphones and Ipads than ever in the first quarter, and yet its still a dissappointment.

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 01:57 PM
People could argue back and forth on who copies who. (They do, in court.) Patents don't equal innovation. Patent lawsuits kill innovation. Apple is too concerned with one over another.

Really, it's not all Apple's fault for their current downgrade. A big part of their downgrade is just the fact that Jobs is gone. The level of scrutiny and the estimates they need to hit are idiotic. For example, they sold more Iphones and Ipads than ever in the first quarter, and yet its still a dissappointment.The estimates are not idiotic...

It is simply the case that over the last few years they hit home runs on product releases...their growth rate, and stock price skyrocketed...in 2011 their year on year quarterly growth rate was right at 75%...they are not even close to that at the current time...and without a new major release the stock will continue to be under pressure...

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 04:04 PM
They hit their forecast, they have an awesome patent library, they are sitting on $137 billion (that's with a 'b') in CASH.
And still people bitch.
Tough crowd.
Who in tech, who in business in general exists in the same time zone? They are, quite simply, the best company on earth right now.

Now, that being said, their stock might well be overpriced, but that's a separate argument from whether they are technically adept.
I'd give Cook another year or two before I threw hiim under the bus. Jobs was certainly the driver, but Cook was the architect of the apple production model. And that is what has generated the cash fountain they've ridden into town on. Jobs also suffered several prima donnas who needed to be shown the door. And Cook has done that.
Those who would count apple down because they didn't have 75% growth should be very careful to underestimate them.

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 04:13 PM
They hit their forecast, they have an awesome patent library, they are sitting on $137 billion (that's with a 'b') in CASH.
And still people bitch.
Tough crowd.
Who in tech, who in business in general exists in the same time zone? They are, quite simply, the best company on earth right now.

Now, that being said, their stock might well be overpriced, but that's a separate argument from whether they are technically adept.
I'd give Cook another year or two before I threw hiim under the bus. Jobs was certainly the driver, but Cook was the architect of the apple production model. And that is what has generated the cash fountain they've ridden into town on. Jobs also suffered several prima donnas who needed to be shown the door. And Cook has done that.
Those who would count apple down because they didn't have 75% growth should be very careful to underestimate them.

I'll help ya...

What is their next blockbuster product?
When is it's official launch?
Will that product produce 75% growth?

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 04:33 PM
Product? Don't know. Tim left me off that con call.
Launch? Don't know.
Projected revenue contributiion? Don't know.


Of course all but about ten people inside Apple would have said precisely the same thing prior to introduction of the mac, Lisa, the ipod, the iphone, the ipad, etc etc etc. So, I guess I shouldn't really feel too bad.

Every time you bitch at your fridge ice maker, your toaster oven, your t.v., your whatever daily convenience that isn't working right, you're in Jobs-land. Make it work and you're a billionaire.

Apple has a bunch of people working on a lot of projects. Whether any of them succeed like those that went before is an open question. Apple will, however, launch something utterly new before too long. And betting that they've somehow forgotten how to rethink a product would be, in my opinion, not prudent.

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 04:42 PM
Kanto, without new known items in the pipeline people are not going to pay a premium price for Apple just because they used to have great product launches...

They are a victim of their own success....they had repeated launches that went perfectly...a product the consumer clamored for and little competition... a name that consumers felt gave value to high margin items...and expanding profit growth

Now, they have no product launches planned...products facing severe competition...a name that still allows high margin, just not as high as in the past...and slower growth...

imo the stock is going to be stuck in the doldrums until they have the next blockbuster product...

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 04:47 PM
Down 63 to 450....ouch....it is damn sure due a dead cat bounce...even though it is not a dead cat....

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 04:59 PM
Kanto, without new known items in the pipeline people are not going to pay a premium price for Apple just because they used to have great product launches...

They are a victim of their own success....they had repeated launches that went perfectly...a product the consumer clamored for and little competition... a name that consumers felt gave value to high margin items...and expanding profit growth

Now, they have no product launches planned...products facing severe competition...a name that still allows high margin, just not as high as in the past...and slower growth...

imo the stock is going to be stuck in the doldrums until they have the next blockbuster product...

If they suck that bad, sell them. You won't be alone and hopefully you've held them long enough to book a fat profit.

Apple has never been a very open company and for good reason: day trader type investors have a time horizon of about 15 minutes and sometimes it takes longer to get something right.

Apple is a classic buy/hold stock. If you don't believe in their conceptualize/design/execute model over a long-ish time frame, you shouldn't own them.

8timechamps
1/24/2013, 04:59 PM
Apple has done an amazing job over the past decade. They are sitting on a ton of cash to show for it. The problem is that they haven't done anything with that cash, nor have they done anything new. From a purely financial standpoint (or investment standpoint), Apple is kinda toxic right now. Missing one estimate isn't that big of a deal, missing 4 out of 6 (over the past 6 qtrs) is a big deal. There was a fear when Jobs stepped down as CEO that Apple wouldn't be the same company, and those fears are starting to bear fruit.

I won't count Apple out for the count, but I also don't think it's the heavyweight champ anymore.

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:11 PM
If they suck that bad, sell them. You won't be alone and hopefully you've held them long enough to book a fat profit.

Apple has never been a very open company and for good reason: day trader type investors have a time horizon of about 15 minutes and sometimes it takes longer to get something right.

Apple is a classic buy/hold stock. If you don't believe in their conceptualize/design/execute model over a long-ish time frame, you shouldn't own them.

I understand what you are saying and agree...

But you fail to recognize:
Competition
No product in near term pipeline to keep growth rate up
Declining margins

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:18 PM
From the Apple press release...these statements damn sure didn't do them any good...

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013/01/23Apple-Reports-Record-Results.html

"Gross margin was 38.6 percent compared to 44.7 percent in the year-ago quarter."

"The Company posted record quarterly revenue of $54.5 billion and record quarterly net profit of $13.1 billion, or $13.81 per diluted share."

"Apple is providing the following guidance for its fiscal 2013 second quarter:

• revenue between $41 billion and $43 billion"


“We’re very confident in our product pipeline as we continue to focus on innovation and making the best products in the world."

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 05:18 PM
Then go for it and sell.

You forget that this company was down and out less than 20 years ago. Jobs was a big part of it but even Magic Stevie needed a team to execute the dream. And they are, mostly, still there.

They've always had competition. They were not the first mp3 player, they were not the first music service, they were not the first laptop rthey were not the first smart phone they were not the first tablet. They just did it better than anyone else.

Not one of their blockbuster products was ever debuted until they were ready and no market guru can claim to have had any long term notice of what was up next. So, maybe they have nothing; maybe they're about to rock the world with iairplane, an app that folds into your back pocket and then deploys into a personal SST. Who knows? You don't, I don't and no one not in Apple today does.

You wanna bet against them? Go ahead. You wont' be alone.

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 05:25 PM
From the Apple press release...these statements damn sure didn't do them any good...

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013/01/23Apple-Reports-Record-Results.html

"Gross margin was 38.6 percent compared to 44.7 percent in the year-ago quarter."

"The Company posted record quarterly revenue of $54.5 billion and record quarterly net profit of $13.1 billion, or $13.81 per diluted share."

"Apple is providing the following guidance for its fiscal 2013 second quarter:

• revenue between $41 billion and $43 billion"

“We’re very confident in our product pipeline as we continue to focus on innovation and making the best products in the world."

They are something like 60% iphones in revenue. Phone sales peak in the final calendar QRT of each year and then drop, whence they build through the year. I forget exactly why, but it's partially Christmas and partially timing of expiring cell phone contracts.

So all that is pretty much tracking historical trends if I read it right.

so, here's the synopsis:

"1. We met expectations and scored record revenue and record profit.
2. Projections are in line with historical sales patterns.
3. Margins took a hit but but <add mouse words>
4. &^%$ you, we aren't revealing our product roll out schemes to a bunch of Wall Street analysts who could not predict trouble when buying up securitized loans from morons who couldn't tell them anything about the contents.
Thanks,
Love,
Tim"

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:27 PM
Then go for it and sell.

You forget that this company was down and out less than 20 years ago. Jobs was a big part of it but even Magic Stevie needed a team to execute the dream. And they are, mostly, still there.

They've always had competition. They were not the first mp3 player, they were not the first music service, they were not the first laptop rthey were not the first smart phone they were not the first tablet. They just did it better than anyone else.

Not one of their blockbuster products was ever debuted until they were ready and no market guru can claim to have had any long term notice of what was up next. So, maybe they have nothing; maybe they're about to rock the world with iairplane, an app that folds into your back pocket and then deploys into a personal SST. Who knows? You don't, I don't and no one not in Apple today does.

You wanna bet against them? Go ahead. You wont' be alone.

Damn, you tend to ignore facts about short and mid term company growth...they are down damn near 40% from the peak...no one knows of any product release in the near future...margins have eroded..their phone sales have probably peaked...

They have been a fine company and made people a ton of money...keep in mind the company underperformed when anyone but Jobs was at the head....do not fall in love with a stock...look at the fundamentals...and everything we know about the future of the company is not good when looking at fundamentals...

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:29 PM
They are something like 60% iphones in revenue. Phone sales peak in the final calendar QRT of each year and then drop, whence they build through the year. I forget exactly why, but it's partially Christmas and partially timing of expiring cell phone contracts.

So all that is pretty much tracking historical trends if I read it right.

so, here's the synopsis:

"1. We met expectations and scored record revenue and record profit.
2. Projections are in line with historical sales patterns.
3. Margins took a hit but but <add mouse words>
4. &^%$ you, we aren't revealing our product roll out schemes to a bunch of Wall Street analysts who could not predict trouble when buying up securitized loans from morons who couldn't tell them anything about the contents.
Thanks,
Love,
Tim"

And the investors said..."**** you Tim. Your stock is down 10% today and 40% over the last year. What will you do for us in the future?"

8timechamps
1/24/2013, 05:31 PM
They are something like 60% iphones in revenue. Phone sales peak in the final calendar QRT of each year and then drop, whence they build through the year. I forget exactly why, but it's partially Christmas and partially timing of expiring cell phone contracts.

So all that is pretty much tracking historical trends if I read it right.

so, here's the synopsis:

"1. We met expectations and scored record revenue and record profit.
2. Projections are in line with historical sales patterns.
3. Margins took a hit but but <add mouse words>
4. &^%$ you, we aren't revealing our product roll out schemes to a bunch of Wall Street analysts who could not predict trouble when buying up securitized loans from morons who couldn't tell them anything about the contents.
Thanks,
Love,
Tim"

If that's their strategy, it's a **** poor one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that analysts should be treated like royalty, but as a CEO of a PTC, job #1 is to grow the share price. Scoffing at analysts isn't a good way to proceed.

Do you work for Apple Kanto? (serious question)

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:31 PM
I imagine all of their products have nearly hit their peak in sales...Pods and Phones and Pads are not going to continue at past growth performance...they need something to take up the slack...and they offered no guidance on what that product would be..so they got their *** handed to them...

8timechamps
1/24/2013, 05:34 PM
I imagine all of their products have nearly hit their peak in sales...Pods and Phones and Pads are not going to continue at past growth performance...they need something to take up the slack...and they offered no guidance on what that product would be..so they got their *** handed to them...

That's where all the Samsung love is coming into play, when in all reality, Google (Android) should be the leading name. Until the Android marketplace, iTunes was king. Now, Droid has almost equaled iTunes in number of Apps, and more people are exposed to it. It's true Apple has always had competition, but not like it has now. When all things are equal, someone has to show their hand (or at least a hint), and Apple hasn't done that.

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 05:35 PM
That's the point of having the $137 billion in cash. Fundamentally, with his business model, Tim doesn't need the street as much as other companies. He owns no factories, he is beholden to no unionized labor pool.
go ahead, day traders, sell, sell, sell. Drive that price down. Drive it down a bit more and they can take themselves private.
You shouldn't fall in love with a company, neither should you pay too much attention to the investment community. These are the same lemming/bozo's who followed each other off the cliff in 2007/2008. Still find 'The Street' all that luminary? I'd say the conventional investment wisdom is something of a crock of ****.
We'll see about apple, but judging them on the basis of the opinion of investment bankers who know nothing about, well, anything, is sort of ridiculous.

KantoSooner
1/24/2013, 05:38 PM
Do you work for Apple Kanto? (serious question)

No. I have a buddy who does. And, ****, he never tells me jack about what's going on there. It's like an effing cult.

There are lots of ways to build shareholder value. Apple stock has done damn nicely (I don't own more than a couple $X,000, so that's not it, either). But when you start pimping out your marketing plans to pump stock price, you're never well served.

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:38 PM
Kanto, I don't have a clue as to what any investment banker or firm has said about the stock...all I have read is the Apple press release and it does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling...

pphilfran
1/24/2013, 05:40 PM
No. I have a buddy who does. And, ****, he never tells me jack about what's going on there. It's like an effing cult.

There are lots of ways to build shareholder value. Apple stock has done damn nicely (I don't own more than a couple $X,000, so that's not it, either). But when you start pimping out your marketing plans to pump stock price, you're never well served.

If they had some new product launch near the end of the pipeline they would have been pimping it big time...and since they only talked in general terms it added to the concern and led to their hammering in the market...

8timechamps
1/24/2013, 05:44 PM
No. I have a buddy who does. And, ****, he never tells me jack about what's going on there. It's like an effing cult.

There are lots of ways to build shareholder value. Apple stock has done damn nicely (I don't own more than a couple $X,000, so that's not it, either). But when you start pimping out your marketing plans to pump stock price, you're never well served.

Trust me, I have been Apple's biggest fan for the past decade. Only this month did I sell off all holdings. My only concern about "not pimping" their marketing plan, is that they have in the past. We always knew about what was in the pipeline. Until now.

jkjsooner
1/25/2013, 10:07 AM
A couple of people mentioned about Apple's lawsuits. Here's my take on it. I don't know the legal aspect of the patents but I do know this. When Apple came out with the iPhone it was revolutionary (as far as I know). Up to that point any phone that tried to be a web browser or have general computer capabilities was clumsy and hard to use. Apple made using the phone to do all sorts of things relatively easy and the interface was just flat out cool. The competitors (including Google) simply copied just about everything Apple had done.

I suppose it's possible several companies were all working on the same basic ideas and Apple just beat them to the punch. Haven't researched it but that's not the impression I get.

From a non-legal perspective I think everyone else infringed on Apple's ideas. When I replace my current iPhone I'll buy another one just because 1) it does what I want it to do and 2) I think Apple has earned my business.


And about the screen sizes and Apple falling behind... I can promise you it wasn't a random choice to make the original iPhone a certain size and it wasn't limited by technology. It was a design choice. The idea that bigger is some revolutionary step in phone technology is absurd. (And, yes, I know the iPhone has gotten slightly biggger.) I don't want to try to carry a tablet in my pocket. Some of the sizes of the newest phones are ridiculous.

KantoSooner
1/25/2013, 10:35 AM
it'll all come out in the wash, so to speak.
I know a lot of traders and most wall street guys need to generate a volume of activity to satisfy themselves and their clients that they are being 'proactive' and actively managing the money. So they move into and out of stocks and other vehicles mechanically and at high speed. And many of them are able to stay up with the general market indices as they do so (a huge portion end up doing worse than simply putting your money into a dow index fund, which has always struck me as sufficient reason for those 'money managers' to go home, take down the old .12 gauge, go out to the garage and end it all, but that's an aside.)
There are, no doubt, companies that will outperform Apple out there. Lots of 'em. If Apple's sin of not sharing their strategic planning with the world, including their competitors, bothers a given investor, they should probably be investing in another company.