The debt limit

[badger]

Today, President Obama called a news conference to demand that it get raised right away. (http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/14/16505804-obama-chides-gop-on-debt-limit-we-are-not-a-deadbeat-nation?lite)

I think we can all agree that it's going to rise, but how much and what should be given up in return?

[SoonerorLater]

"Debt Limit" that's an oxymoron if ever there was one. The rumor that's being floated is that the House crashes this thing unless Obama agrees to all kind of spending cuts. I doubt if this happens but it's a great way to handcuff Obama and be a thorn in his side to help prevent furthering his agenda.

[diverdog]

"Debt Limit" that's an oxymoron if ever there was one. The rumor that's being floated is that the House crashes this thing unless Obama agrees to all kind of spending cuts. I doubt if this happens but it's a great way to handcuff Obama and be a thorn in his side to help prevent furthering his agenda.

If they do then it may go to courts as a constitutional battle.

[Boomer.....]

“It’s like this you see. You come home one day and the main sewage line that runs down the street has stopped up. Every house in the neighborhood is up to the ceiling in crap.

Now you gotta make a decision. Do you raise your ceilings or pump out the poop.”
.

[Midtowner]

Today, President Obama called a news conference to demand that it get raised right away. (http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/14/16505804-obama-chides-gop-on-debt-limit-we-are-not-a-deadbeat-nation?lite)

I think we can all agree that it's going to rise, but how much and what should be given up in return?

Nothing.

You don't get to hold the country hostage in order to pay for the obligations Congress has already voted to incur.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Obammy has been holding us hostage, why shouldn't Congress hold him hostage. Besides, Congress is the budgeting authority, not the WH.

[Midtowner]

And Congress has already spent this money. This is about paying debts previous congresses voted to take on. If you don't understand that, you don't have any business in this conversation. This is Congress voting not to make the credit card payment--to become deadbeats. This is not about new spending.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Well, therein lies the rub....Obammy got his spending requests earlier on a deal to cut spending in the future, he ain't...So now the game and oneupsmanship begins for the promise of a burger today to be paid for tomorrow...

If you cant figure that out, you have no business in this thread...

[hawaii 5-0]

Obama says no deal this time.

He's gone back on his word before.

After all.......he's a politician.

5-0

[badger]

Obama says no deal this time.

He's gone back on his word before.

After all.......he's a politician.

5-0

As a Democrat, would you accept concessions by your Democrat representatives, especially after they ceded ground on the $250k tax rise thing last time around?

It seems apparent that there are many Republican voters here that aren't going to be happy if Republicans don't come away with spending cuts this go-around, after Republicans ceded to $450k and up tax hikes

[sappstuf]

In 1985, Congress passed a debt-limit increase along with the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings deficit-reduction package.

In 1990, a Democratic Congress raised taxes, cut spending, and increased the debt limit in a bipartisan agreement with a Republican president.

In 1993, a Democratic Congress and president passed legislation that raised taxes, restrained spending, and raised the debt limit.

In 1997, a Democratic president and a Republican Congress agreed to budget legislation that they claimed would reduce the deficit and that also raised the debt limit.

In 2010, a Democratic president and Congress raised the debt limit while also enacting budget rules that were supposed to encourage restraint.

In 2011, a Democratic president and a Republican Congress raised the debt limit while also imposing spending cuts.

Cutting spending while raising the debt limit is routine. But to some, it is now holding the country hostage....

Humorous.

[Midtowner]

The economy can't afford spending cuts.

[sappstuf]

If they do then it may go to courts as a constitutional battle.

I wonder which side Obama would argue... He has done both.

Back in 2006:


The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills.

Raising the debt limit = can't pay its own bills.

Obama today:


To even entertain the idea of this happening, of America not paying its bills, is irresponsible. It’s absurd.

So not raising the debt limit = American not paying its bills.

Nothing like covering all the bases.

[sappstuf]

The economy can't afford spending cuts.

It just afforded a tax raise...

[pphilfran]

It just afforded a tax raise...

I don't think the current economy can handle a 2% across the board tax increase (SS and over 400k)...add in spending cuts and we are risking a new recession...

[hawaii 5-0]

As a Democrat, would you accept concessions by your Democrat representatives, especially after they ceded ground on the $250k tax rise thing last time around?

It seems apparent that there are many Republican voters here that aren't going to be happy if Republicans don't come away with spending cuts this go-around, after Republicans ceded to $450k and up tax hikes


As an American who cares about the Nat'l Debt, I'd take a terrible swift sword to the Budget, regardless of the Debt Limit.

I take offense to the idea of 'no spending cut, then no limit increase' hostage scenario.

Where was the spending outrage when Bush was 'runnin' it up'?

5-0

[badger]

Where was the spending outrage when Bush was 'runnin' it up'?

When my lib neighbor exclaimed that he thought President Obama was "like a Republican," I almost died laughing thinking of how many then-South Ovalies would rage over such a thought.

Silly isn't it, that spendy W. and "Republican-like" Obama are most unpopular with the opposite party, when in fact they've done things to give something to the opposite side

[TheHumanAlphabet]

we are risking a new recession...

Its gonna happen regardless of what is done. So I would argue real spending cuts to reduce the size of the budget...

The global economy is not humming along. We will be in this fog for a while longer...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I take offense to the idea of 'no spending cut, then no limit increase' hostage scenario.

Where was the spending outrage when Bush was 'runnin' it up'?

5-0

I agree on Bush, disagree on the other premise. We need cuts now regardless and I would not want Obammy to get only tax hikes with no spending cuts.

basically, Obammy is trying to stick a knife into the Repubs and kill the party with dissention after a vote...This term, everything about Obammy is to destroy the Republican party as future opposition to the Progressive way...

[pphilfran]

Its gonna happen regardless of what is done. So I would argue real spending cuts to reduce the size of the budget...

The global economy is not humming along. We will be in this fog for a while longer...

OK...if we were to cut spending and we went into recession would we then raise spending to pay the additional unemployment benefits? Would we then lose tax revenue due to less people working? Would we not increase spending in an attempt to stabilize the economy? Could it be possible that we would actually increase the deficit and debt instead of reducing them?

[hawaii 5-0]

When my lib neighbor exclaimed that he thought President Obama was "like a Republican," I almost died laughing thinking of how many then-South Ovalies would rage over such a thought.

Silly isn't it, that spendy W. and "Republican-like" Obama are most unpopular with the opposite party, when in fact they've done things to give something to the opposite side


True that.

5-0

[TheHumanAlphabet]

OK...if we were to cut spending and we went into recession would we then raise spending to pay the additional unemployment benefits? Would we then lose tax revenue due to less people working? Would we not increase spending in an attempt to stabilize the economy? Could it be possible that we would actually increase the deficit and debt instead of reducing them?


We do that, then we agree to raise taxes or the spending limit for a specific item. I am not in favor of the spending increase Obammy has gotten with no budget cuts. The Fed has done everything it can, increasing spending is meaningless, unless you want to hold a national agenda to fix infrastructure on a long term plan. Everything Bush and Obammy did for stimulus was a joke and lots of money went into crony hands and little was done to help the economy or put people to work. Only a long term plan and funded would do that.

[hawaii 5-0]

When I think of wastful government spending I think of an incident about 25 years ago.

My bro-in-law was serving in Guam, in the Navy.

The Pacific Fleet was having service competitions and different areas in the Pacific were to be represented.

They sent him to Okinawa for a week from Guam...........to play badminton.


5-0

[sooner n houston]

We have a SPENDING problem!!!

[SoonerorLater]

OK...if we were to cut spending and we went into recession would we then raise spending to pay the additional unemployment benefits? Would we then lose tax revenue due to less people working? Would we not increase spending in an attempt to stabilize the economy? Could it be possible that we would actually increase the deficit and debt instead of reducing them?

This is the very definition of Dilemma. Nothing we do from this point will solve our financial problems without extreme pain. All kinds of promises are going to be broken and people are going to be really angry. I think it's just not in most American's DNA to think that we can't solve our problems without hardship.

[diverdog]

OK...if we were to cut spending and we went into recession would we then raise spending to pay the additional unemployment benefits? Would we then lose tax revenue due to less people working? Would we not increase spending in an attempt to stabilize the economy? Could it be possible that we would actually increase the deficit and debt instead of reducing them?

Yep. Nothing happens in a vaccum.

[Sooner5030]

"if we cut spending we will go into a recession"

No f-ing ****. When gubment spending (net of taxes) is a component of the statistical inference that you call GDP of course will cause a contraction.

What are the options.....perpetual $1 trillion deficits to keep the economy going? 8% growth in debt to get 2-3% growth in GDP is not sustainable.

Mom's gonna fix it all soon.

[pphilfran]

"if we cut spending we will go into a recession"

No f-ing ****. When gubment spending (net of taxes) is a component of the statistical inference that you call GDP of course will cause a contraction.

What are the options.....perpetual $1 trillion deficits to keep the economy going? 8% growth in debt to get 2-3% growth in GDP is not sustainable.

Mom's gonna fix it all soon.

You have to move off of the spending slowly....

[diverdog]

"if we cut spending we will go into a recession"

No f-ing ****. When gubment spending (net of taxes) is a component of the statistical inference that you call GDP of course will cause a contraction.

What are the options.....perpetual $1 trillion deficits to keep the economy going? 8% growth in debt to get 2-3% growth in GDP is not sustainable.

Mom's gonna fix it all soon.

So what will you cut?

[Sooner5030]

So what will you cut?

DoD to $500 billion in year 2000 dollars. Cannot support fighting 2 x fronts. Admit that we can only fight one conventional war at a time. Cut numbers not capability. in other words cut the number of Brigade Combat Teams but not each BCTs lethal capability.

Entitlements: SNAP (alot), TANF (a little), Medicaid (a little), Medicare (alot)

Keep DoT at current levels.

USDA - since SNAP runs through their expenditures it will be cut with the entitlement cuts.

DoEnergy - cut 25%

DoJ - cut DEA and ATF to almost nothing.....leave them as a skeleton crew that monitors the individual state programs. Keep FBI.

DoEd - cut subsidized student loan program to almost nothing. Keep pell, get out of anything not considered "higher ed".

that's a start. I like intervention.....I have an MPA......but providing a level of intervention beyond what you can fund is irresponsible.

[FaninAma]

The economy can't afford spending cuts.
It doesn't matter what Congress does. This economy is terminal. The Fed can pump it full of printed monopoly money but it is obvious already that this measure is having little to no effect on reviving the economy.

Watch what happens in Japan over the next 12 to 18 months. The collapse of that economy will trigger some pretty serious reverberations in our economy.

Once Japan's government starts directly monetizing its debt and stops buying US debt then the collapse of the world-wide debt bubble should follow shortly after.

[StoopTroup]

Thank Goodness it will all be over soon.

[pphilfran]

Thank Goodness it will all be over soon.

Pardon?

[soonercruiser]

Nothing.

You don't get to hold the country hostage in order to pay for the obligations Congress has already voted to incur.

The Left, and the dictator Oummer do not get to hold the country hostage!
I agree!

[soonercruiser]

"Debt Limit" that's an oxymoron if ever there was one. The rumor that's being floated is that the House crashes this thing unless Obama agrees to all kind of spending cuts. I doubt if this happens but it's a great way to handcuff Obama and be a thorn in his side to help prevent furthering his agenda.

GOD forbid that the Repubicans in the House would hold true to the promises that they made to their constituents in order to get elected! :02.47-tranquillity:


After all....they do have a "mandate" themselves.

[diverdog]

DoD to $500 billion in year 2000 dollars. Cannot support fighting 2 x fronts. Admit that we can only fight one conventional war at a time. Cut numbers not capability. in other words cut the number of Brigade Combat Teams but not each BCTs lethal capability.

Entitlements: SNAP (alot), TANF (a little), Medicaid (a little), Medicare (alot)

Keep DoT at current levels.

USDA - since SNAP runs through their expenditures it will be cut with the entitlement cuts.

DoEnergy - cut 25%

DoJ - cut DEA and ATF to almost nothing.....leave them as a skeleton crew that monitors the individual state programs. Keep FBI.

DoEd - cut subsidized student loan program to almost nothing. Keep pell, get out of anything not considered "higher ed".

that's a start. I like intervention.....I have an MPA......but providing a level of intervention beyond what you can fund is irresponsible.

Thanks.

[SoonerBBall]

This endless debt limit debate is silly. Both parties have used it as a way of pushing their respective political agendas when they weren't the party in power and it needs to stop. The debt stealing needs to be tied to the GDP by percentage (i.e. debt ceiling can be raised half of the total GDP, by percentage) thus giving it some real meaning. That way our spending is both increased and limited by our production.