obama care 2014...good basic anology

[Soonerjeepman]

on the radio this morning...

Starting in 2014 the chance of your insurance premiums will double is very likely,why?

No insurance company can deny anyone with pre-existing conditions....so...the example is as follows:

You buy a $20K car, wreck it (pre-existing condition) then go to Farmers and tell them you want insurance, pay your premium, then tell them to give you a new car.

The insurance companies know the bottom line. They are for profit, therefor they will raise rates to cover their liabilities but hey everyone will be covered..someday by the gov.!!!

[KantoSooner]

I don't dispute your analysis and am not necessarily in favor of the ACA. However, let's look at another analogy.

Under the pre-ACA system, the same person with the preexisting condition was denied insurance. They then used up their personal and family assets until they were bancrupt. Then they went on Medicaid on the public nickel.

My sense of how this thing ultimately plays out, presuming that we are lucky enough to get there is that a basic level of care and catastrophic coverage will be mandatory and supplied to all and then you can supplement over that. And there will have to be a serious effort to figure out why we pay twice as much as any other country for our healthcare and then eliminate those 'whys' .

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Kanto...Don't necessarily disagree with you, at some point almost everyone will have a "pre-existing" condition. I am not sure this is a way to tackle it, but do think there should be amendments in the way insurance is run to make it equitable for those that pay. We need to get non-payers paying as well...

[yermom]

on the radio this morning...

Starting in 2014 the chance of your insurance premiums will double is very likely,why?

No insurance company can deny anyone with pre-existing conditions....so...the example is as follows:

You buy a $20K car, wreck it (pre-existing condition) then go to Farmers and tell them you want insurance, pay your premium, then tell them to give you a new car.

The insurance companies know the bottom line. They are for profit, therefor they will raise rates to cover their liabilities but hey everyone will be covered..someday by the gov.!!!

thus the mandate for buying coverage

[Soonerjeepman]

agree but the main point was that obama continually tells everyone that he's for the middle class when in fact he's for the poor. Who pays for the basic level of care? Thought we already had Medicare/caide for that. The problem is the abuse of the system. At what point do we (the people that pay) say enough is enough. I'm sorry I work my butt off, keep a budget, don't have certain things cause I cannot afford them..why I should I be punished (have my rates go up) because half the country wants handouts? I cannot afford my premiums to go up. My job pays for it but I can guarantee that they will pass the cost on to me if it doubles.

I say have gov run cheap health clinics for the poor. With the provision that if the issue is at a certain level (cold, etc) you don't get seen. My bro is a rheumatologist in Mississippi, he sees so much abuse it's crazy.

[Soonerjeepman]

thus the mandate for buying coverage

lol...yeah let's tell all those people on welfare or cash jobs (illegals) to buy coverage...good answer.

Your answer doesn't tackle the pre-existing condition issue, which is what it was about.

[KantoSooner]

I can tell you one thing: if you're an individual covering your own, you're phuque'd. I own my own business, cover myself and my daughter. Had to move this year to a $5,000 deductible as the $1,000 was simply too much monthly. So now I've effectively got catastrophic and nothing else...and that's gone up another 14%. All with no major claims or diseases, neither one of us is fat and neither one of us smokes.

Virtually anything would be better than what we've got now.

[Soonerjeepman]

KS..wow. yeah my son has his own policy, my "family" at school would cost me over $600 out of pocket a month. His policy just went up to $165, last yr $150/month. 17 yr old male..no drinking, no drugs, great health.

But I disagree, I think obamacare will not be any better..actually worse for those of us that pay. I ALMOST can say that the goal is to close private health insurance and have the gov totally take over.

[badger]

But I disagree, I think obamacare will not be any better..actually worse for those of us that pay. I ALMOST can say that the goal is to close private health insurance and have the gov totally take over.

Yes, likely. Not sure it's a bad thing or a good thing. What worries me is availability of care for those who truly need it.

Several weeks ago, I went to an urgent care clinic (it was a Sunday, so regular clinic closed) and it was packed with other nose snifflers like me. Non-urgent stuff, but just wanted to get a precription so that it could get better faster. A woman that is obviously in more discomfort and pain and needs care faster than the rest of us combined walks in with an assistant, because due to food poisoning, she is running a high fever, can barely stand and is carrying a bag to continually vomit in.

She is told that her insurance provider is not accepted at that clinic and has to leave. :(

[XingTheRubicon]

In some ways, I long for the early 1900's healthcare model...when if you were stupid, you just died.

Now, we're trying too hard to keep stupid people alive. They're just going to have stupid kids.

[KantoSooner]

A lot of people on this board have labelled me as in favor of 'socialized medicine'; and I don't think that would be anymore of a disaster than what we've got now, but my preferred 'solution' would be to control costs.

Simple comparison:

When I lived in Japan (through 2008), I paid $650/month to cover a couple in their 40's and their daughter. All non-smokers, no big health issues. No deductible, prescription meds included, co-pay of $5 per visit and prescrip.

Here, Blue Cross, for me and the same daughter, $550/month, $5000 deductible, no meds coverage.

And, folks, the care in Japan was simply not bad. It was not Rwanda or someplace primitive.

You start looking at things like that and 'socialized medicine' starts to look interesting.

[yermom]

lol...yeah let's tell all those people on welfare or cash jobs (illegals) to buy coverage...good answer.

Your answer doesn't tackle the pre-existing condition issue, which is what it was about.

if you are forced to buy insurance, then you can't just wreck your car and buy insurance after the face. it exactly covers the pre-existing condition issue. people with cash jobs and on welfare aren't likely to be trying to get insurance with a pre-existing condition anyway

[XingTheRubicon]

A lot of people on this board have labelled me as in favor of 'socialized medicine'; and I don't think that would be anymore of a disaster than what we've got now, but my preferred 'solution' would be to control costs.

Simple comparison:

When I lived in Japan (through 2008), I paid $650/month to cover a couple in their 40's and their daughter. All non-smokers, no big health issues. No deductible, prescription meds included, co-pay of $5 per visit and prescrip.

Here, Blue Cross, for me and the same daughter, $550/month, $5000 deductible, no meds coverage.

And, folks, the care in Japan was simply not bad. It was not Rwanda or someplace primitive.

You start looking at things like that and 'socialized medicine' starts to look interesting.

agreed, it's the insurance that needs to go


1. Eliminate insurance

2. Fee for service ( if you want to save 3 or 4 hundy a month for a "health care" account, fine )

3. Dr's and health care centers/hospitals would compete for your business.

4. Everyone is eligible to receive treatment (even those that can't pay)...HOWEVER, any unpaid accounts will be pursued and collected for life without mercy...(similar to student loans) Don't like it, die.

5. Obama is sent to Elba.

[yermom]

yeah, cops and fire departments should be the same way

[Bourbon St Sooner]

yeah, cops and fire departments should be the same way

I look forward to hearing the comparison of cops and fire departments to health care.

[SoonerAtKU]

I thought you liked job creators, X? What's up with you advocating eliminating thousands of jobs with your plan? So you're okay with legislating out an entire sector of our economy?

(P.S. I actually agree in principle, as I'd rather my money go towards medical research to improve quality of care and preventative care than betting on health via insurance. Just winking at you a bit here.)

[yermom]

I look forward to hearing the comparison of cops and fire departments to health care.

ok, so your house is on fire.

do you really want to wait as the fireman verifies that you have paid up on your fireman's fees before he saves your kids?

now, your kid has cancer.

health "insurance" is stupid. but i don't really see why it's a for profit enterprise in the first place.

[olevetonahill]

Riddle me THIS

If i understand this EVERY one is gonna be Forced to Buy Ins. Right? Yet How in hell they gonna afford it?
Read about a Wendy's that cut sompun like a 100 Full time jobs to 28 hours a week Because they couldnt afford to provide coverage for the employees Ok So Now the New Part Timers have to Buy Ins. ON THEIR own with only a 28 hour work week.

Some one splain that crap to me?

[virginiasooner]

I look forward to hearing the comparison of cops and fire departments to health care.

You don't want to pay for it until you need it.

I count myself fortunate, in that my health insurance did not go up this year (it's still $70 a pay period). But overall, my taxes went down. I don't count Social Security/Medicare as taxes -- they are an EARNED BENEFIT.

[Soonerjeepman]

if you are forced to buy insurance, then you can't just wreck your car and buy insurance after the face. it exactly covers the pre-existing condition issue. people with cash jobs and on welfare aren't likely to be trying to get insurance with a pre-existing condition anyway

why not? not seeing your logic, welfare and illegals can't or don't have pre-existing conditions...that's weird? . ANYONE without insurance NOW might be in this boat...that is what all the hub-bub is about...people who CAN'T get insurance due to PE conditions...anyway that's what the dems are arguing.

[badger]

Riddle me THIS

If i understand this EVERY one is gonna be Forced to Buy Ins. Right? Yet How in hell they gonna afford it?
Read about a Wendy's that cut sompun like a 100 Full time jobs to 28 hours a week Because they couldnt afford to provide coverage for the employees Ok So Now the New Part Timers have to Buy Ins. ON THEIR own with only a 28 hour work week.

Some one splain that crap to me?
Forbes did a good of explaining it here. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2013/01/14/insurers-to-obama-make-the-individual-mandate-stronger/)

In a nutshell, forcing people to buy insurance or pay a penalty will cause people to choose the cheaper option. Right now, it's the penalty (only $95 when they start in 2014). If the insurance companies have their way, there will be additional penalties, making it cheaper to buy insurance.

[XingTheRubicon]

I thought you liked job creators, X? What's up with you advocating eliminating thousands of jobs with your plan? So you're okay with legislating out an entire sector of our economy?

(P.S. I actually agree in principle, as I'd rather my money go towards medical research to improve quality of care and preventative care than betting on health via insurance. Just winking at you a bit here.)

The gov't is forcing us to buy insurance...it's stupid. You don't need insurance for something that 100% of the citizens will have claims several times a year.

The gov't should be forcing pure competition...you know, the most successful free enterprise

We all know why they're not..

[yermom]

why not? not seeing your logic, welfare and illegals can't or don't have pre-existing conditions...that's weird? . ANYONE without insurance NOW might be in this boat...that is what all the hub-bub is about...people who CAN'T get insurance due to PE conditions...anyway that's what the dems are arguing.

this is for people that would or could actually buy insurance. someone really poor would likely be on medicare/medicaid or just going to the ER with no intention of paying. on the other hand, there are people out there that would have insurance if they weren't denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions. of course, the whole "insurance" part is kinda moot at that point.

the car insurance analogy doesn't really work. it's more like having a car with 100k miles on it and paying for some coverage that will fix the motor when it goes out, but after the motor has already gone out