Alabama oversigning

[BigJerm7]

Pretty interesting read if you haven't seen it.

http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/tag/alabama/

Seems to be a reason the SEC is winning the NC's.

[yermom]

he is just maximizing the numbers because he can. they will have to change the rules to make it stop and coaches will find some other rule to exploit gray areas.

not everyone is going to do the right thing by kids just to be a nice guy. you would think that would hurt his chances with recruits, but i guess if you are the one that gets the spot, why do you care?

[soonercastor]

http://www.yesicanusechopsticks.com/sapporo2005/crying_baby.gif

[BigJerm7]

Not sure how you came up with that, but whatever makes you feel pretty.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Ole Miss, Troy, and a number of other schools have long "oversigned" but do not have the hardware Saban does. At some point, coaching does matter.

[SoonerAtKU]

Well the benefit of oversigning is only there when you're making the right choices about which branches to prune at what time. Saban's a very good coach, but is he really that much better at the job than just about anyone in history?

You take someone already good at their job, then give them 20% additional chances to do it, then you compare results with someone who gets the standard chance, and I'll bet you see similar performance.

[instigator]

I get that it gives them a chance to miss on a recruit but don't they have to pull a scholly to make room for the gray shirt? Seems like I have heard that Saban will do that if you're not good enough.

[yermom]

in the above story, he didn't even keep the kid on, he was told there wasn't room for him and he ended up signing with Arkansas after Saban got him to decommit from Auburn

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Satan may be a god coach but that doesn't make him less of a d!ck. I'm glad that a guy like Dom Whaley can come to Norman, OK, work his arse off and earn a schollie even after getting hurt. If he had been at bammer he would have been kicked to the curb so fast he would have gotten whiplash to go with his bum leg.

[SoonerAtKU]

I get that it gives them a chance to miss on a recruit but don't they have to pull a scholly to make room for the gray shirt? Seems like I have heard that Saban will do that if you're not good enough.

Yes, that's the thing. They have to find guys to greyshirt, transfer, or accept a medical scholarship to make room for an incoming scholarship player. That's disingenuous and underhanded, if not against the rules.

[instigator]

Didn't read it. :)

So it sounds like he gets extra people to come there and never gives them a scholarship unless a spot opens up because someone ahead of them sucks or they are really good. If a player isn't good, they drop them.

I can't imagine anyone would ever commit to OU if there was a chance they would get dropped like that. I guess kids ASSume that they are good enough and it won't happen to them. Still it seems that if a few stories about kids losing schollys got out that kids wouldn't commit to a school like that. I just don't get committing to a school that won't commit to you.

[yermom]

that's my problem with the whole thing. you are stuck there once you commit, but the coach can pull your scholarship whenever he wants

[SoonerAtKU]

Of course kids still commit. Saban just points to the trophies and the players going to the NFL and asks if you want on the train. "But what about the other guys who got stepped over on the way?" "That would never happen to you, son, you have TRUE talent."

[instigator]

There you have it. He can look them right in the face and lie to them. That really sucks and I still don't get why someone would take that chance with your one shot at big time CFB.

[SoonerAtKU]

Because they're 16-18 year old boys. How often do they make good decisions with regard to the rest of their lives? Even the best are shortsighted and unwise at times.

This is also setting aside the issue of potential extra inducements that we assume happens at most of the SEC schools. The people they trust to help them with a decision might just be swayed if there is a little something...you know...for the effort.

[badger]

Satan may be a god coach

lol @ appropriate misspellings.

but seriously now, old story is old. if you look at the date it was posted, it was LAST FEBRUARY. And as can be expected, it was discussed here last February and even at the beginning of this past football season.

The update to the story since then is that the SEC school presidents were embarrassed by it enough to change the rules. The SEC coaches voted to keep things as they were, and the SEC presidents overruled them. As you can imagine, Nick Saban was not happy. (http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/03/sec-presidents-vote-to-reduce-signing-limit-to-25-nick-saban-blows-a-gasket/)

The end result of that will be seen throughout recruiting season, as previous verbal commitments are going to get their scholarship offers revoked, they're going to be offered grayshirts and delayed enrollment instead of being immediate scholarship players, or they're just going to dick around more with the numbers so that a 25-scholarship limit somehow becomes more than 30 (http://dallas.sbnation.com/texas-am/2012/12/13/3760756/texas-am-recruiting-2013-analysis) while programs from other conferences are at about 15. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20121215_29_B8_Abusyr503148)

Is what it is. Best to just jump over to basketball now than fret over something you can't control... and next time the SEC has a monopoly on the national championship game or is playing against an overrated team that you hate... boycott. It's what I did last night and last year. And as you can see I'm sooooo sad that I missed out on such mediocre games. :P

[cvsooner]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/14695/lightbox/collegefootball.png?1357590504

[Soonerjeepman]

in the above story, he didn't even keep the kid on, he was told there wasn't room for him and he ended up signing with Arkansas after Saban got him to decommit from Auburn

and told the day of signing...that is crappy...

[landrun]

http://www.yesicanusechopsticks.com/sapporo2005/crying_baby.gif

^^^ This.

We should stop being self righteous and start doing the same thing.

It isn't illegal. It is a smart practice that many schools are taking. We're getting left behind.

[trwxxa]

The thing that is a bit hypocritical here is the celebration that occurred when Corey Nelson left aTm at the alter on signing day. It may not be exactly the same, but the truth is both sides can screw the other.

[jkjsooner]

The thing that is a bit hypocritical is the celebration that occurred when Corey Nelson left aTm at the alter on signing day. It may not be exactly the same, but the truth is both sides can screw the other.

Big difference. A guy isn't a commit until the letter is signed. A&m can still go out and sign another kid.

In the grey shirt example, a kid signs a letter of intent that he is bound to. This can be pulled but the kid can't simply go to another D1 school without sitting out. The agreement is completely one-sided favoring the schools. This leaves kids at risk from unethical coaches.

[trwxxa]

Big difference. A guy isn't a commit until the letter is signed. A&m can still go out and sign another kid.

In the grey shirt example, a kid signs a letter of intent that he is bound to. This can be pulled but the kid can't simply go to another D1 school without sitting out. The agreement is completely one-sided favoring the schools. This leaves kids at risk from unethical coaches.

It really is not a big difference. The kid was told he did not have a spot before he signed his LOI. He still had the option of going to another school or taking the grey shirt. I will say he was lucky Arky had an open spot. aTm also had options, though I'm sure all of the kids on their radar had already signed an LOI with another school before Nelson walked. I have no idea if they used that LOI on another kid or just left it out there for the next year

[sooneron]

It really is not a big difference. The kid was told he did not have a spot before he signed his LOI. He still had the option of going to another school or taking the grey shirt. I will say he was lucky Arky had an open spot. aTm also had options, though I'm sure all of the kids on their radar had already signed an LOI with another school before Nelson walked. I have no idea if they used that LOI on another kid or just left it out there for the next year
Good Lord, you are clueless, the kid signed and was told he had no scholly. Reading comp much? Actually, he signed it in the ****ing video. How hard is that to analyze? Anyone that thinks being this ******y to 18 year olds should be kicked in the nut sack. Just because the occasional idiotic kid switches on signing day (Meachem) doesn't mean that grown men should follow suit.

[jkjsooner]

It really is not a big difference. The kid was told he did not have a spot before he signed his LOI. He still had the option of going to another school or taking the grey shirt. I will say he was lucky Arky had an open spot. aTm also had options, though I'm sure all of the kids on their radar had already signed an LOI with another school before Nelson walked. I have no idea if they used that LOI on another kid or just left it out there for the next year

I'm not talking about that example as it appears that Saban was upfront with the kid before signing. Maybe the new SEC rules have dictated that.

In the past teams like LSU, Ole Miss, and Bama have signed over 25 guys. Once they've signed they can't just go somewhere else. When they arrived on campus some found out there was no scholarship for them.

For whatever reason Saban was honest with this kid. Plenty of articles indicate that that hasn't been the norm.

[sooneron]

Hell, a lot of kids are told they are "cut" well after they are on campus. Miles had an assistant text one that he should clean out his locker... IIRC

[jkjsooner]

Hell, a lot of kids are told they are "cut" well after they are on campus. Miles had an assistant text one that he should clean out his locker... IIRC

Exactly. If you read the article linked they mention about the SECs new soft cap of 25. That is the only reason Saban acted somewhat ethical here. The kid sort of got screwed but not like kids over the last few years who found themselves having to transfer to a lower division school right before the season was about to begin.

Looks like the new SEC rule has had an impact. We'll see if that translates on the field in a few years.

Of course this only solves the most egregious problem where a kid signs a binding LOI and is told he doesn't have a scholarship. I'm not even sure it solves that problem as there still isn't a rule that a LOI has to be honored by the school and if Saban doesn't have 25 slots available he still may tell a kid he just signed to pack his bags.

Alabama will still not renew scholarships for kids who aren't performing much more than other schools. They'll continue to sign 25 every year because they'll get rid of enough to make sure they have 25 open slots each year. (Remember, 25*4 = 100 and 25*5 = 125. Both of these are more than 85 so without attrition you can't bring in 25 every year.)

[jkjsooner]

It's ironic that over signing.com makes an issue of this kid since their own efforts (along with Outside the Lines and other documentaries) kept this kid from being screwed over. It makes for an embarrassing signing day but better to face the truth before you sign a binding document (that is only binding to you).

[Sabanball]

What's the next "Excuse" for Bama Dominance?



Since the beginning of man, humans have been making up excuses to cover up for feelings of embarrassment, shame, sadness and most of all pride. Many are untruthful statements while others are just a collection of unrelated and useless facts that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. An excuse is only a temporary Band-Aid for the heart. It’s simply nothing but a poor attempt to save face and hide the truth. We all have used them in our lives, some of us use much more frequently and even convince ourselves they are in fact reality.
When it comes to College Football you don’t have to look long and hard to find excuses. Whether it’s players, coaches, fans or even the so called “Experts”, excuses are abundant throughout the course of a season. As with most cases in life the more important events tend to have more excuses surrounding them. Over the last few years of the SEC dominance, specifically Alabama’s dominance, excuses have exponentially grown in numbers to try and belittle the accomplishments of one of the all time greatest coaches and programs the game has ever had.
There are millions of examples that we all could sit here and list out and never run out of material. Here are a few that I wanted to point out and shoot down as pure drivel.

-Bama is a football factory with a learning institution as an appendage and has no real emphasis on academics.
Alabama is deadly serious about academics. Our GSR is up to 85%, just behind Vanderbilt, in the SEC. That's risen substantially under Saban, and will continue to rise, but a large public university, some four times or so the size of Notre Dame, will never reach ND's 97%. Our GSR is not padded with basket-weaving. In fact, some opposing fans might do well to do a bit more research on Alabama academics before some of the crap I've seen spewed on some ND sites. For example, our law school is ranked in the 20s range, the same as Notre Dame's.

- BAMA keeps backing into Titles and the only reason the SEC keeps winning “MNC” is because the media/ NCAA is in their pocket. WOW, this one has several excuses packed into one statement. Really??? If, Bama was not worthy why would they be 3-0 in championship games against the BIG 12 Champion, SEC Champion and “Gods” team ND? Why are they putting more players into the NFL? Why do most highly rated recruits want to play at BAMA? Have you ever thought, maybe because they are better than everyone else? Sometimes the answer is very simple! Some on the site may even disagree, but there is no such thing as “MNC”. We have a system in place that all schools understand how it works and the recognized Champion is the winner of the BCS Championship Game. Very simple. Using “MNC” only makes some fans feel better about their team not making the game or bringing a championship home. Some even use it because they don’t agree with the system. Who cares, that’s not the point, it “IS” the system in place and what determines our champions. Either get over it or learn how to be successful in it! The SEC has the media in their pocket. The SEC has played in 7 straight BCS title games, 6 times against other major conferences and they have won every time. Either stop crying or beat them!

- SABAN wins because he “oversigns” and does not have same entry standards. If you play any game, its always good to know the rules of the game to win more consistently. If you want a winning debate team and a losing football team keep doing what you are doing! Most of you, honestly, probably do not know how gray-shirting really works anyway and no player is forced to do it. Lane Kiffin just lost two 5 star recruits because he asked them to delay their enrollment--they chose not to but guess what, virtually no mention of it in the media. If it had been Saban, we would never hear the end of it. It's a completely ethical, common, and legit practice and actually benefits the players involved by giving them a chance to play for the program when they are willing to wait in line to play.

-ND lost because of the long layoff. Interesting no one said this was an issue before the game when all the ND homers and BAMA haters were saying ND would win.

-ND did not show up for the game. Sure they did! I saw them get off the bus and walk through the tunnel out onto the field. Why in the world would you not show up for the biggest game of your life? No one announce that ND did not show up prior to the game and I saw them kick off to us! There was however a wet spot in the tunnel where they were standing as the Tide players entered the stadium!

-Manti Teo had his worst game of his life. Ok, maybe he did, but Ray Lewis in his prime would not have keep ND from losing!

-BAMA was the best team on “Monday” night. No, Bama was the best team regardless of what night the game was played on. They had the best players and the best coaches. This was a total mis-match and ND would not win if they played 100 times!

-BAMA’s Offense is not good, they just play good defense. Ok, let me get this straight. Bama’s last 4 post season games were against teams that had 0, 1, 0 and 0 loses. At the time, two #1 defenses in the country and another top #10 defense in the country. Bama’s weak offense beat the best defensive teams in college football by 16, 42, 21 and 28 points. Bama put up 149 points and gave up 42 in those 4 games.

I think by now you see where this is going. People make excuses when they can’t live up to their own expectations and pride gets in the way of the truth!

ROLL TIDE ROLL!!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Sabanball, oversigning is a pretty big deal. If Stoops was for oversigning, there are several guys that we didn't have room for or cut loose that would have had a significant impact on our teams especially earlier in the decade. Did you know that we asked Wes Welker to walkon because we didn't have room? Had Stoops been an advocate of oversigning he would have been in our receiving corps from 2001-2004 and we would have been an order of magnitude better in our receiving corps.

1. Oversigning takes a lot of the heat off of evaluation. If 2 guys at a position are equivalent, just take both of them and run off one of them if he doesn't pan out.
2. Oversigning means that you don't have to worry about relative class strength. Some years are more talent strong than others. If you oversign you never have to worry about getting stuck with 17 scholarships on a high talent year (like we did in 2004). You take 25 regardless.
3. Oversigning means that you can look at a recruit for longer to see if you made a mistake. February? Pfft, I can tell them I don't want them in July.

If you can't see how much of an advantage that is, then you aren't very objective. It is an order of magnitude higher than our coaches and their mandatory voluntary workouts. OU had 8 seniors who were 2nd string this year (5 of them were 2nd string on a horrid defense). You can't sit there and tell me that we wouldn't be a better team if we ran those guys off and recruited 8 more younger kids that might be starters.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Sabanball's post reaffirms the fact (not my belief) that he has no life of his own and lives vicariously through Alabama football. I value human life over the game of football, so here's hoping for continued success by Alabama so Sabanball doesn't off himself. That would be a tragedy.

[sooneron]

Yeah, oversigning is rillay all about the kids. lolz!

[badger]

No, Bama was the best team regardless of what night the game was played on.

Except the night Aggie strolled into Bammerham and beat you.

Just fyi: Aggie will NEVER let that fact go. Get used to hearing about it repeatedly, even if you win the next 100 meetings. Aggies retroactive history probably says that they dominated everyone in the Big 12, especially Texas, despite the fact that they left 6-6 last year. :rcmad:

They're your Aggies now. Own them!

[soonerhubs]

Yeah, oversigning is rillay all about the kids. lolz!

SabanSHILL's delusions are highly entertaining. He also said oversigning was ethical. :)

"Let me do you a favor and offer you a scholarship, then when you don't pan out, I'm going to pull your future out from under you!"--Another Ethical Statement :)

[kevpks]

Congrats to Bama for being this decade's football dynasty. Of course Saban oversigns. It's a jerk move and he is a complete jerk. The NCAA should change rules to make it impossible for anyone to do so. Furthermore, all conferences should get together and come up with a set of recruiting regulations. Everyone should play by the same rules.

I also will never understand why an Alabama would feel the need to come to a Sooner message board and write countless diatribes defending the honor of his favorite team. I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on a message board at Virginia Tech or Oregon State talking crap about the Sooners, but I feel no need to search for it and defend my beloved Sooners.

[Soonerwake]

Congrats to Bama for being this decade's football dynasty. Of course Saban oversigns. It's a jerk move and he is a complete jerk. The NCAA should change rules to make it impossible for anyone to do so. Furthermore, all conferences should get together and come up with a set of recruiting regulations. Everyone should play by the same rules.

I also will never understand why an Alabama would feel the need to come to a Sooner message board and write countless diatribes defending the honor of his favorite team. I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on a message board at Virginia Tech or Oregon State talking crap about the Sooners, but I feel no need to search for it and defend my beloved Sooners.

My thoughts exactly... I have had enough of these fans of other teams on our board anyway.

[FaninAma]

What's the next "Excuse" for Bama Dominance?


I am attached firmly and orally to Nick Saban's nut sack. Coach Saban could be caught on video abusing new puppies and choir boys and I would still be his biggest fan.

ROLL TIDE ROLL!!

FIFY. You're welcome.

[Seamus]

Sabantroll should be in the red permanently for that post alone.

Geez, freak.

[MI Sooner]

If Saban isn't lying to the players about the consequences of not hacking it as a player (possible revocation of scholarship despite trying hard) who gives a rat's ***?

If one coach cuts players (which is a cost of attending that school in a recruit's eyes) and one coach doesn't (I'm assuming from the discussion that Stoops doesn't), then Stoops should be able to get players Saban can't as he has a more attractive offer. Let the players decide what's best for them. As soon as we get a coach who cuts non-performers, I guarantee most OU fans will defend it, and rightly so (again, assuming the players weren't lied to).

Some people take jobs because of the security, but trade off top-end earning potential. Some people take jobs where they're paid on contingency with no assurances of a set pay. Is everyone employing a contingency based sales force unethical? If not, what's the difference?

[picasso]

Sabanball, oversigning is a pretty big deal. If Stoops was for oversigning, there are several guys that we didn't have room for or cut loose that would have had a significant impact on our teams especially earlier in the decade. Did you know that we asked Wes Welker to walkon because we didn't have room? Had Stoops been an advocate of oversigning he would have been in our receiving corps from 2001-2004 and we would have been an order of magnitude better in our receiving corps.

1. Oversigning takes a lot of the heat off of evaluation. If 2 guys at a position are equivalent, just take both of them and run off one of them if he doesn't pan out.
2. Oversigning means that you don't have to worry about relative class strength. Some years are more talent strong than others. If you oversign you never have to worry about getting stuck with 17 scholarships on a high talent year (like we did in 2004). You take 25 regardless.
3. Oversigning means that you can look at a recruit for longer to see if you made a mistake. February? Pfft, I can tell them I don't want them in July.

If you can't see how much of an advantage that is, then you aren't very objective. It is an order of magnitude higher than our coaches and their mandatory voluntary workouts. OU had 8 seniors who were 2nd string this year (5 of them were 2nd string on a horrid defense). You can't sit there and tell me that we wouldn't be a better team if we ran those guys off and recruited 8 more younger kids that might be starters.
Please jkm, no logic or reason needed. Thissin here thread is to bash Bammer and their dominance of them footballs.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

With greyshirting, a coach could conceivably take a kid he has no intention of ever giving a scholarship for the sake of market share. If a kid was going to be a thorn in the side going to the competition, but doesn't quite fit in to the coach's scheme, he an get the kid to commit to his school to get him out of way. Gross.

[SoonerorLater]

Bottom line is that oversigning is a huge advantage. If it wasn't then trust me Saban wouldn't be doing it. Saban may be an excellent coach but the oversigning is what really puts Alabama over the top. Saban took over a 6-7 Shula coached program. The next year Saban finished with a record barely better than Shula's at 7-6. If it was entirely Saban's coaching skill you expect to see more improvement than that. Year after that he sign 30 some players, finishes 12-2 but loses the sugar bowl. Next year more oversigning 14-0 BCS Champions. Once the ball starts rolling because of the oversigning it becomes progressively easier to sign more blue chip recruits. It feeds on itself.

College Football needs to do one of two things. Either go back to the Wild West days of college football where just about anyting goes or go to a system where a single governing body sets rules, schedules etc. (think more like the NFL). College sports is the only place where you attempt to recruit players from a universal pool so it's critical that you don't have schools operating under different ethical standards.

[Eielson]

^^^ This.

We should stop being self righteous and start doing the same thing.

It isn't illegal. It is a smart practice that many schools are taking. We're getting left behind.

**** no. We shouldn't start ruining kids' lives to win football games. I know our moral compass isn't always right on, but I'll quit watching when it gets that ****ed up.

[Eielson]

What's the next "Excuse" for Bama Dominance?

Oversigning has been the "excuse" for a couple years now. Bama was the better team. That was pretty clear. They've just done it in an unethical way that most non-SEC schools haven't stooped to.

[SoonerKnight]

Why are u ranting on a Sooner board?




What's the next "Excuse" for Bama Dominance?



Since the beginning of man, humans have been making up excuses to cover up for feelings of embarrassment, shame, sadness and most of all pride. Many are untruthful statements while others are just a collection of unrelated and useless facts that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. An excuse is only a temporary Band-Aid for the heart. It’s simply nothing but a poor attempt to save face and hide the truth. We all have used them in our lives, some of us use much more frequently and even convince ourselves they are in fact reality.
When it comes to College Football you don’t have to look long and hard to find excuses. Whether it’s players, coaches, fans or even the so called “Experts”, excuses are abundant throughout the course of a season. As with most cases in life the more important events tend to have more excuses surrounding them. Over the last few years of the SEC dominance, specifically Alabama’s dominance, excuses have exponentially grown in numbers to try and belittle the accomplishments of one of the all time greatest coaches and programs the game has ever had.
There are millions of examples that we all could sit here and list out and never run out of material. Here are a few that I wanted to point out and shoot down as pure drivel.

-Bama is a football factory with a learning institution as an appendage and has no real emphasis on academics.
Alabama is deadly serious about academics. Our GSR is up to 85%, just behind Vanderbilt, in the SEC. That's risen substantially under Saban, and will continue to rise, but a large public university, some four times or so the size of Notre Dame, will never reach ND's 97%. Our GSR is not padded with basket-weaving. In fact, some opposing fans might do well to do a bit more research on Alabama academics before some of the crap I've seen spewed on some ND sites. For example, our law school is ranked in the 20s range, the same as Notre Dame's.

- BAMA keeps backing into Titles and the only reason the SEC keeps winning “MNC” is because the media/ NCAA is in their pocket. WOW, this one has several excuses packed into one statement. Really??? If, Bama was not worthy why would they be 3-0 in championship games against the BIG 12 Champion, SEC Champion and “Gods” team ND? Why are they putting more players into the NFL? Why do most highly rated recruits want to play at BAMA? Have you ever thought, maybe because they are better than everyone else? Sometimes the answer is very simple! Some on the site may even disagree, but there is no such thing as “MNC”. We have a system in place that all schools understand how it works and the recognized Champion is the winner of the BCS Championship Game. Very simple. Using “MNC” only makes some fans feel better about their team not making the game or bringing a championship home. Some even use it because they don’t agree with the system. Who cares, that’s not the point, it “IS” the system in place and what determines our champions. Either get over it or learn how to be successful in it! The SEC has the media in their pocket. The SEC has played in 7 straight BCS title games, 6 times against other major conferences and they have won every time. Either stop crying or beat them!

- SABAN wins because he “oversigns” and does not have same entry standards. If you play any game, its always good to know the rules of the game to win more consistently. If you want a winning debate team and a losing football team keep doing what you are doing! Most of you, honestly, probably do not know how gray-shirting really works anyway and no player is forced to do it. Lane Kiffin just lost two 5 star recruits because he asked them to delay their enrollment--they chose not to but guess what, virtually no mention of it in the media. If it had been Saban, we would never hear the end of it. It's a completely ethical, common, and legit practice and actually benefits the players involved by giving them a chance to play for the program when they are willing to wait in line to play.

-ND lost because of the long layoff. Interesting no one said this was an issue before the game when all the ND homers and BAMA haters were saying ND would win.

-ND did not show up for the game. Sure they did! I saw them get off the bus and walk through the tunnel out onto the field. Why in the world would you not show up for the biggest game of your life? No one announce that ND did not show up prior to the game and I saw them kick off to us! There was however a wet spot in the tunnel where they were standing as the Tide players entered the stadium!

-Manti Teo had his worst game of his life. Ok, maybe he did, but Ray Lewis in his prime would not have keep ND from losing!

-BAMA was the best team on “Monday” night. No, Bama was the best team regardless of what night the game was played on. They had the best players and the best coaches. This was a total mis-match and ND would not win if they played 100 times!

-BAMA’s Offense is not good, they just play good defense. Ok, let me get this straight. Bama’s last 4 post season games were against teams that had 0, 1, 0 and 0 loses. At the time, two #1 defenses in the country and another top #10 defense in the country. Bama’s weak offense beat the best defensive teams in college football by 16, 42, 21 and 28 points. Bama put up 149 points and gave up 42 in those 4 games.

I think by now you see where this is going. People make excuses when they can’t live up to their own expectations and pride gets in the way of the truth!

ROLL TIDE ROLL!!

[jkjsooner]

College Football needs to do one of two things. Either go back to the Wild West days of college football where just about anyting goes or go to a system where a single governing body sets rules, schedules etc. (think more like the NFL). College sports is the only place where you attempt to recruit players from a universal pool so it's critical that you don't have schools operating under different ethical standards.

Ironically, some small liberal arts schools were adamently against changing the rules on oversigning and greyshirting. I don't get it but that was the case.

[sooneron]

If Saban isn't lying to the players about the consequences of not hacking it as a player (possible revocation of scholarship despite trying hard) who gives a rat's ***?

If one coach cuts players (which is a cost of attending that school in a recruit's eyes) and one coach doesn't (I'm assuming from the discussion that Stoops doesn't), then Stoops should be able to get players Saban can't as he has a more attractive offer. Let the players decide what's best for them. As soon as we get a coach who cuts non-performers, I guarantee most OU fans will defend it, and rightly so (again, assuming the players weren't lied to).

Some people take jobs because of the security, but trade off top-end earning potential. Some people take jobs where they're paid on contingency with no assurances of a set pay. Is everyone employing a contingency based sales force unethical? If not, what's the difference?

So you're equating someone going to a college (that they were swayed to attend by the coach) with someone working in a chosen profession? Ok, go tit.

:rolleyes:

[jkjsooner]

If Saban isn't lying to the players about the consequences of not hacking it as a player (possible revocation of scholarship despite trying hard) who gives a rat's ***?

If one coach cuts players (which is a cost of attending that school in a recruit's eyes) and one coach doesn't (I'm assuming from the discussion that Stoops doesn't), then Stoops should be able to get players Saban can't as he has a more attractive offer.

First, let's tell the full story. Some kids are cut before even showing up on campus. In these cases "not hacking it" is not an appropriate phrase as the kids never had a chance.

In a perfect world more ethical coaches could use this to their advantage and they probably do to some extent. But the fact is that guys like Saban prey on the kid's own ego. How many of these kids actually have a proper perspective and really believe that they may be on the cutting block?

Telling a kid that Alabama might not honor their scholarship offer can easily be interpreted by the kid that you don't feel he is as worthy as Saban does.

Now, in this case Saban was honest with the kid before signing and that was due to the oversigning rules the SEC imposed this year. However, it's very likely that in some years Alabama won't have 25 slots available so numbers 24 and 25 (for example) might still get cut before school starts.

I think we're going to see a dramatic change in the SEC in a few years with these new rules in place now that they can't sign 30-35 players and cut the extras before school starts. This practice only really took off in the last decade and we're seeing what impact it has had.