The difference between OU AND bama...

[OU_Sooners75]

Night and day.

The gap between the two programs is pretty enormous.

I'm trying to stay positive after my cool off time following the bowl game, but while watching Bama tonight, I can't help but think to myself, this is how OU used to be! Maybe not this big of a dynasty, but they were feared!

[MyT Oklahoma]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Hard to believe that 10 to 11 years ago we beat those guys two years in a row.

So why did they get better and why did we go backwards?

[OU_Sooners75]

Well they got saban and we got stuck with nepotist Bob Stoops....lol

[MyT Oklahoma]

Yeah I know. I just didn't say it out loud. LOL

Don't get me wrong, I love Coach Stoops but his best days appear to be behind him. Only time will tell though.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

The difference between Bob Stoops and Nick Saban is Saban values his job over his family. Bob is the better man, but I would rather have Oklahoma have the better coach.

[MyT Oklahoma]

The difference between Bob Stoops and Nick Saban is Saban values his job over his family. Bob is the better man, but I would rather have Oklahoma have the better coach.

I agree. Bob's character and integrity are beyond reproach and he also knows that his family should come first.

[OU_Sooners75]

Lol...


Don't get me wrong. I'm glad Stoops is at OU. You don't get much better character and integrity than Stoops.

I'm also for family. But without my job, I can support my family. Yeah Stoops doesn't have to worry about being broke and hungry at the table. But he should also place extra value on his career. The very career that has netted him millions of dollars!

[MyT Oklahoma]

Yeah I know but it's his decision and there isn't anything that any of us can do about it. Otherwise please call Joe C. and please let him know what you think.

P.S. I am not happy with what has been accomplished since 2000. Too damn many missed opportunities.

[OU_Sooners75]

Shoot, if I knew a phone call from me could correct it, it would have been sent a long time ago...lol.

That said, I will always admire what Stoops has done for OU. He has been a very good ambassador for OU.

But I just wish he would put more into the football program. And if he can't, then I wish he would just move on.

It takes many hours of dedication to be a college coach, hell even high school coach. So if family is more important, then coaching is really not something one should enter, if they are only going to count on coaching to finance their life.

[Piware]

Saban made a couple of remarks in the post-game interview that really caught my attention. (1) They will start working toward next season in 2 days and (2) there are no entitlement players. He's a tough cookie but something intangible is working for them.

[cvsooner]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

[Piware]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

I don't think anyone is saying that but Stoops seems to have lost some game intensity along the way. In the 4th quarter and up by 28, Saban was more intense than he was at kickoff. His teams reflect that.

[misplaced_sooner]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

Ya, that what some of us are saying. How many JCO transfers are starting at Bama? How many top recruits is bama signing compared to OU? How is Bama's bowl record compared to OUs? Bama is betting up on UCONN in bowl games, they are beating the big boys and we are getting destroyed by WVU.....anybody that thinks this program is moving in the right direction is a sunshine pumper. Period.

[Sooner02]

Don't forget that both Stoops and Saban have both played in 4 NC games. The difference is Stoops lost 3 out of 4 and Saban has won all 4.

[OU_Sooners75]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

Where did you read that?

I do think Stoops has lost his path or intensity or whatever. And the product of the program is showing it in many ways.

He hires his buddies and family.
His staff seems to not care about recruiting.
His staff seems to rather be playing golf than wanting to put in the extra time to get better.

I don't know what it is to be exact. But the product he is in charge of reflects his decisions.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

The main difference I saw was effort. As far as I could tell the Bama players were giving it their all on every play.

Us in our game, not so much.

ETA: That's also what I saw won us our last NC. Every player giving his all on every play. That intensity has slowly waned since then as far as I'm concerned.

[OU_Sooners75]

The main difference I saw was effort. As far as I could tell the Bama players were giving it their all on every play.

Us in our game, not so much.

The players have got to feel confident in the game plan. They have got to feel confident in the coaching they have at their disposal. They have got to feel confident period.

Then the coaches have to show confidence in their players, their schemes, and their gameplan. And they have to have the confidence they can adjust on the fly, and the players will be able to handle it.

In my playing days there was a few games we players didn't feel very confident in the gameplan, or the adjustments that were made. And when a player starts to have that feeling where they are not confident, they are not going to give the effort.

Yes, there are times when the loss is on the shoulders of the players. There are times when its on the shoulders of the coaches. And times when both are at fault.

but when the failures span over 7 years, its not just the players lack of effort. College players can only play 4 years and have 5 years to do so.

Not one player on this years team played vs. Boise State or WVU in the Fiesta Bowl. Not one was a starter when losing to Florida.

What I'm trying to say I guess, when will people stop saying its player effort and start to realize its the coaches effort?

[cvsooner]

C'mon, man. Saban is good, maybe even the best, but he's not infallible. His first year the Tide got drilled by Utah in the Sugar Bowl. They've had only one unbeaten season. I will give you the point that when he gets a team into the championship game, he's delivered. One of those was at our expense, but I'd say we lost that one more than they won it (LSU). I hear a lot of envy, perhaps.

[Sabanball]

As far as HC's go, I think we're still basically even. Bob is a great coach--he's demonstrated that. One advantage he has over Saban is, I think, a longer career in front of him. Nick is 61 and might have 6-7 more good yrs in the tank. Bob could coach another 15 yrs easily, maybe more. Your time is coming...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Hard to believe that 10 to 11 years ago we beat those guys two years in a row.

So why did they get better and why did we go backwards?Saban...Saban...Saban

[aegsm76]

As someone here in the heart of Dixie, (20 minutes from Tuscaloosa), I believe it is the scheme of the team that is a major difference.
Saban builds his team on a pro-type scheme both offense and defense.
This has helped him to recruit major talent and he does a masterful job developing it.
The spread is a great offense, but it tends to harm your defense, in my opinion.
By harm your defense, it makes you make personnel choices, based on practice, that do not work out when you play a non-spread team.
I could go on, but I have to get back to work, since all of the Bama fans here are partying...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The players have got to feel confident in the game plan. They have got to feel confident in the coaching they have at their disposal. They have got to feel confident period.

Then the coaches have to show confidence in their players, their schemes, and their gameplan. And they have to have the confidence they can adjust on the fly, and the players will be able to handle it.


There is a lot to this..How do you think the defensive players felt each time Mike burned a timeout on the 1st drive this year or 1st quarter because they didn't know what to do?

[OU_Sooners75]

Exactly. How come the players don't know what to do?

Just goes to show the lack of preparation by the coaching staff.

I can see the defense looking confused the first 15 plays since most OCs script the first few plays.

But after that, the tendancies start to show back up.

[Sooner in Tampa]

The differences between OU and Bama are too numerous to mention.

Saban has an absolute MONSTER at Bama...they win huge games (go figure) and they are killing it on the recruiting front as well. Hell, they even sell kids to gray shirt just for a CHANCE to be on the team.

In college football, the rich get richer and unless Saban screws something up at Bama or moves onto the NFL...his teams are going to stay loaded and he will continue to win.

I cannot say that I don't have a certain amount of envy for Bama fans...they are fat as ticks and the future is awesome.

[Curly Bill]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

I totally think that is true! I'm not saying Bob doesn't work hard, but he ain't Saban in the amount of effort he puts into it (as I understand it at least), and he sure as hell ain't Saban in the results category!

...and yeah I think Bob cares, but does he have that overwhelming burning desire to do whatever it takes to win? I don't believe he does.

[Mac94]

Hard to believe that 10 to 11 years ago we beat those guys two years in a row.


Two words for ya ... coach and Fran. ;)

[delhalew]

The difference miles and miles of physicality, effort, and focus.

When your ahead by several TDs and your QB is busting the centers balls because the snap wasn't perfect...you care a lot.

[jkjsooner]

The main difference I saw was effort. As far as I could tell the Bama players were giving it their all on every play.

Us in our game, not so much.

ETA: That's also what I saw won us our last NC. Every player giving his all on every play. That intensity has slowly waned since then as far as I'm concerned.

It's not a valid excuse for a lack of effort but it's a lot easier when you have the adrenaline high from dominating just about every play.

You don't find out about a guy's character when everything is going his way and his lines are dominating the opponent.

[SoonerorLater]

I totally think that is true! I'm not saying Bob doesn't work hard, but he ain't Saban in the amount of effort he puts into it (as I understand it at least), and he sure as hell ain't Saban in the results category!

...and yeah I think Bob cares, but does he have that overwhelming burning desire to do whatever it takes to win? I don't believe he does.

I agree. I'm sure Bob Stoops wants to win but the game of college football is not dominated by coaches who believe maintaining a balance between work and family. It's dominated by insanely driven, narscissistic coaches who live, eat and breathe football. Guys who are willing to toe up and tightrope every ncaa rule and some who are willing to cross that line. It's dominated by ethically challenged individuals who will walk over anybody they can to get the desired results. Little loyalty to their assistants. Family life is a distant consideration. Just look at the winning coaches of the last decade. Only Mack Brown doesn't fit that description and he has a HUGE built in advantage at Texas recruiting- wise. One that no other school except maybe USC has and Mack just sort of captured lightning in a bottle that one year.

Can Bob Stoops compete with these guys without adopting their style and tactics? As of now I would say no.

[FaninAma]

I never understood the mind of a recruit who signs with Bama understanding his chances of playing are a lot lower than at other schools. I understand the whole "can't be afraid of a little competition" mindset. But, to reach your potential you have to get playing time and if you are 3rd or 4th on the depth chart you aren't going to see a lot of playing time. Then throw in the entire oversigning issue and I am amazed at the recruits who flock to Saban's and Les Miles' programs.

Its akin to parents wanting their kid t play for the best little league baseball team even if it means sitting on the bench.

[Landthief 1972]

The coaches have a lot to answer for but it's much more than that:

1. Lack of heavy hitters on the d-line and in the LB corps. Not only is our DL average, we lost one of them to a DUI for the bowl game. Anyone who thinks we have a LB that could carry Teddy Lehman's jock is smoking some high-grade weed laced with PCP. If your best secondary player has to come in and make the tackle on 50% of all the running plays, you've got a serious problem.

2. Player shuffle. Do you think Bama has any O-linemen who were recruited as friggin' tight ends? (OU's Chester is the exception to the rule, not the norm). Granted, this year we had multiple injuries, but the O-line has been a sticking point ever since Loadholt et al, left for the the NFL. Undersized, unable to runblock consistently, no depth due to an unusually high amount of kids leaving the program and injury. We've had the secondary moved around so many times I don't think even the kids themselves could tell you what position they play and what their primary focus is during a play.

3. Whatever the attitude issue is that has spanned the last few years. Supposedly, Stoops had it squashed this year, but you can still sense tension between players, and we still have an inordinate amount of STARTERS making stupid decisions off the field leading to suspensions.

4. Grayshirting. Stoops will never do it, but Saban gets the best players because he dangles a schollie in front of more than his allowed amount of recruits, picks the best players and tells the others to play without a scholarship or hit the pavement.

5. Leaning on the JUCO ranks too heavily. Pulling players from the JUCO ranks is something second-tier teams like OSU do. A top-tier program like OU shouldn't have to recruit so heavily from that pool. [Saunders is the exception to the rule, not the norm.] Sorry, he's not a JUCO transfer, my bad.

6. Rumors that recruiters are telling prospects that Big XII offenses don't prepare OL properly for the NFL, which runs little spread O and wants big players, not finesse players. Again, OU's Chester is the exception to the rule, not the norm. Other rumors say that recruiters are telling prospects that Schmitty is a sadist of sorts, and they point to our attrition levels, especially among the OL.

We need a Dusty Dvorchek and a Teddy Lehman to anchor the DL and LB corp. We need to stop shuffling the secondary. We need bigger, more aggressive O-linemen. The rift of the last few years with players with attitude problems needs to be ended, even if it means canning a starter. Put his *** on the bench for the first few games of the season - ask Finch how he liked fielding kickoffs all season. We need some coaches who can recruit more aggressively. The JUCO thing fixes itself if the recruiting is upgraded, as is the BS that the other school's recruiters are making about our program.

I just don't know if Stoops can do all of that. He's too stubborn, and I think he'll remain so until we start having a multiple 8 win or less seasons. I know it's ridiculous to call the last 3 seasons failures when we had 10 wins each season, a conference championship (and a shared one)...but a good 10-win team doesn't get embarrassed by teams like the Tech of last year, or blown out by A&M and then our D coach admits nationally we had no one who could match up with him.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Saunders didn't come from a JUCO but your point was still well taken. Same thing for your other comments.

Changes are needed in how our program is run but I am not holding my breath.

Whether the changes happen or not I will remain a Sooner fan because i am too old to change. However, I do regret what might have been in years past had changes happened previously but that's life.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

The players have got to feel confident in the game plan. They have got to feel confident in the coaching they have at their disposal. They have got to feel confident period.

Then the coaches have to show confidence in their players, their schemes, and their gameplan. And they have to have the confidence they can adjust on the fly, and the players will be able to handle it.

In my playing days there was a few games we players didn't feel very confident in the gameplan, or the adjustments that were made. And when a player starts to have that feeling where they are not confident, they are not going to give the effort.

Yes, there are times when the loss is on the shoulders of the players. There are times when its on the shoulders of the coaches. And times when both are at fault.

but when the failures span over 7 years, its not just the players lack of effort. College players can only play 4 years and have 5 years to do so.

Not one player on this years team played vs. Boise State or WVU in the Fiesta Bowl. Not one was a starter when losing to Florida.

What I'm trying to say I guess, when will people stop saying its player effort and start to realize its the coaches effort?

I actually agree with everything you say. It's the coaches' job to inspire/demand effort from the players.

[cleller]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

I think Bob cares and works plenty hard.
Saban may not form as close a bond with others as a human coach (like Bob), and focuses only only on how to achieve a goal. He keeps on staff only those he think accomplishes this goal, and handles his players the same way, oversigning recruits and dropping the weaker players without remorse.

[SoonerorLater]

I think Bob cares and works plenty hard.
Saban may not form as close a bond with others as a human coach (like Bob), and focuses only only on how to achieve a goal. He keeps on staff only those he think accomplishes this goal, and handles his players the same way, oversigning recruits and dropping the weaker players without remorse.

and wins lots of football games.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I never understood the mind of a recruit who signs with Bama understanding his chances of playing are a lot lower than at other schools. I understand the whole "can't be afraid of a little competition" mindset. But, to reach your potential you have to get playing time and if you are 3rd or 4th on the depth chart you aren't going to see a lot of playing time. Then throw in the entire oversigning issue and I am amazed at the recruits who flock to Saban's and Les Miles' programs.

Its akin to parents wanting their kid t play for the best little league baseball team even if it means sitting on the bench.I think they sign because they believe Saban is the best prep to succeed in the NFL. Also, just to be able you played on a NC team is quite an enticement, as well as the publicity the team will receive.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Hard to believe that 10 to 11 years ago we beat those guys two years in a row.

So why did they get better and why did we go backwards?

Because the SEC allows oversigning/gray shirting. The playing field is not level when you can recruit a kid. Sign him to a scholarship, but not be required to actually give him a scholarship. Just find a donor to pay his way. Bama has more players than us.

[SoonerorLater]

Because the SEC allows oversigning/gray shirting. The playing field is not level when you can recruit a kid. Sign him to a scholarship, but not be required to actually give him a scholarship. Just find a donor to pay his way. Bama has more players than us.

Until the rules change this exactly what we should be doing. Every passing year as we move further down the totem pole it will be harder to do even if we want to.

[TUSooner]

You guys honestly think Bob Stoops doesn't care and doesn't work just as hard as Nick Saban? Puh-leeze.

Sure Bob "cares," but he does NOT work as hard or demand as much hard work as Saban does.

Reeeee-Leee!

[Soonerjeepman]

I think the players adopt the coach's attitude. I hated JM cockie attitude...but at the same time I want guys on OU to have that, somehow that is what it takes.

As far as family vs work...I've coached hs bball...not even V, some JV and lower level. I spent 2+ hours 6 days a week from Nov 11 to March 1st for 8 yrs, for a measly 1600 or 2600 a yr (2 diff jobs). I did it because I love the game and wanted to work with the kids. My wife (now ex) was not supportive at all, one HC I was under, his wife was very supportive with 2 little girls at home. I had 2 kids, who were 5 and 8 and I coached until they were 13/16. missed a lot, but as the ex and I were talking about it after the divorce I saw the difference in opinion. I saw my coaching and games as a way for the family to bond...bring the kids to games, they could be ball boys/girls, I took them to practices on Sat. The ex saw it as a way to split the family.

Every coach's (from pee wee league to professional) family/wife knows the deal...they either support or don't.

I understand Stoops doesn't want to loose sight of what is REALLY important, but his family and him have to understand his position...and $5 million reasons he might need to put his job before his family once in awhile. Not saying he doesn't sometimes, but he has said many times that family is very important..(maybe even first..not sure). If that means missing your kid's bday because of recruiting then that's what it means. I think Saban would do that...Bob..probably not. Doesn't make him a bad person..actually the contrary, but it's not a good trait for a major D1 football coach.

I do appreciate his effort the last 14 yrs. Maybe he'll decide to get a little more aggressive or not, who knows. I do believe Saban puts a little more "effort" into coaching/recruiting/managing the monster than Stoops does.

[ddub0224]

On offense, Bama had a game plan. They humiliated the crap out the best defensive player in the game (per Heisman voters). You never knew what was coming. And they mixed up the run and pass to make play action actully work.
As for us, my wife was able to call what play was coming next. We never use a tight end (although we finally started using Millard more) pitch sweep, or screen play. Usually run up the middle or throw something short.

On defense, Bama had a game plan too. Knock it all you want (SEC speed) but we don't have it. They came from all over the place and actually used a blitz as part of their contain. We rush 4 straight in their lanes and then let our LBs overrun or miss tackles. AND WE DON"T ADJUST AT THE HALF!

Plus, more than anything Bama showed heart. And I know it's easier when you're winning but we just never seemed to get the emotions going this season outside of the WVU and cowgirls games.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Our players don't seem to want to give the effort that the players at Bama will; i saw 2 highlights from the Cotton Bowl when Manziel was running wild and we had several players just jogging after him; pretty pathetic

[nBoSTP]

One HUGE difference that I noticed is offensive line play. Alabama could line up and run the ball straight at ND. Oklahoma's O line never got any push at all at season it seemed. OU can pass block but they need O Lineman who can run block better than what they currently have. I believe that the defense will get better eventually under Mike Stoops. But the Offensive Line needs either a new coach or better players.

[8timechamps]

How many JCO transfers are starting at Bama?

At least one. One of their DBs is a JUCO transfer.


How many top recruits is bama signing compared to OU?

Winning national titles helps a little. As does oversigning. I'll give you the national title argument, but I'd just as soon Stoops continue his practice of not oversigning.



How is Bama's bowl record compared to OUs? Bama is betting up on UCONN in bowl games, they are beating the big boys and we are getting destroyed by WVU.....anybody that thinks this program is moving in the right direction is a sunshine pumper. Period.

Alabama is better than OU right now. No question. But, they're better than every team in the country right now. Nobody is close. Should Oregon fire Chip Kelly? They aren't as good as Bama. Should A&M fire Sumlin? They beat Bama, but lost to two other teams. Should K-State fire Snyder? They beat OU, but lost to Baylor and got embarrassed by Oregon.

College football is cyclical. Alabama is the best team in the country....right now. OU was the best team in the country in 2000. I want a coach that keeps the program relevant, and does it the right way. Stoops fits the bill.

Also, I thought being "destroyed" by another team meant losing. I'm pretty sure that OU beat WVU. In fact, I'm positive about it.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

At the end of the day, you reap what you sow. Saben's got a roster loaded with 5-star and 4-start recruits that he earned by winning big games. We've slipped to having 4-star and 3-star because we keep getting thumped on the big stage. It started by getting our rears handed to us by KSU in the Big 12 title game in 2003, and the USC beatdown in Jan 2006. Recruiting has gradually declined since, culminating with this year's bumper crop of more 3-stars. Not sure what is going to right this ugly ship

[Since71ASooner4Life]

I agree. I'm sure Bob Stoops wants to win but the game of college football is not dominated by coaches who believe maintaining a balance between work and family. It's dominated by insanely driven, narscissistic coaches who live, eat and breathe football. Guys who are willing to toe up and tightrope every ncaa rule and some who are willing to cross that line. It's dominated by ethically challenged individuals who will walk over anybody they can to get the desired results. Little loyalty to their assistants. Family life is a distant consideration. Just look at the winning coaches of the last decade. Only Mack Brown doesn't fit that description and he has a HUGE built in advantage at Texas recruiting- wise. One that no other school except maybe USC has and Mack just sort of captured lightning in a bottle that one year.

Can Bob Stoops compete with these guys without adopting their style and tactics? As of now I would say no.

agree 100%