Isn't It fun To Watch As The Idiots On The Left Realize They Have Been Duped?

[FaninAma]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/6/obama-supporters-shocked-angry-new-tax-increases/\

Waaaaaaah! You mean I have to share in the pain? LOFL.

With apologies to Badger, I thought this deserved a thread of its own.

[badger]

Meh, it's better over here than in football land at the moment. There are about 40 new threads on there that I haven't read since my last visit Friday and I'm not sure I want to. :(

So, by all means start new (*cough* DRUDGE REPORT ARTICLES! *cough*) threads here. It's better than being told that we need to fire Bob Stoops repeatedly :(

[yermom]

it was a temporary drop. stop whining.

i don't see how this is Obama's fault. talk to your GOP led House that also had to pass this.

[FaninAma]

Badge, this forum is all about expression of one's opinions. A lot of what Drudge links to are opinions. I understand that opinions are changed very rarely so essentially this forum serves as an echo chamber and a release valve for the conservatives' justifiable frustration with the idiots on the left. It is what it is.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Nah, we don't need to fire Bob, we just need to get used to 3 loss season's and losing to big teams in bowl games because that is what gets Bob extensions and Boren is just fine with that...

[FaninAma]

it was a temporary drop. stop whining.

i don't see how this is Obama's fault. talk to your GOP led House that also had to pass this.

I am fine with taxes going up. Which entitlement programs do you think should be cut?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

According to the dims, progressives and libs, no entitlements should be cut, you make too much money and we need to tax you more...

[badger]

Badge, this forum is all about expression of one's opinions. A lot of what Drudge links to are opinions. I understand that opinions are changed very rarely so essentially this forum serves as an echo chamber and a release valve for the conservatives' justifiable frustration with the idiots on the left. It is what it is.

It's all good. I just think it's funny that a lot of what you link here I first saw linked on drudge. It's apparent that we read the same site each morning :D

Well... that site and this one too I guess :P

[yermom]

I am fine with taxes going up. Which entitlement programs do you think should be cut?

corporate welfare.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

corporate welfare.


What's this? I don't think it exists...

[LakeRat]

corporate welfare.

Explain please

[Midtowner]

it was a temporary drop. stop whining.

i don't see how this is Obama's fault. talk to your GOP led House that also had to pass this.

Precisely.

I don't see it as newsworthy that some Democrats are stupid.

So are a lot of Republicans. I know that for a fact. I read SF.com.

[yermom]

What's this? I don't think it exists...

how about carried interest?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/01/02/the-big-fiscal-cliff-deal-winners-hedge-fund-and-private-equity-moguls/

[XingTheRubicon]

corporate welfare.

If it wasn't for the first word, there'd be no money for the second word.



You can be one of the haves, or you can bitch...

[Midtowner]

What's this? I don't think it exists...

How about tax credits for the sale of railroad spikes?

[yermom]

If it wasn't for the first word, there'd be no money for the second word.



You can be one of the haves, or you can bitch...

heh. that's rich.

who does most of the bitching?

i would be interested to hear why a hedge fund manager's fees are taxed like capital gains and thus at a lower rate than me, even though they make WAY more money than i do

[XingTheRubicon]

They make WAY more money than me too...the difference is that one of us is not bitterly envious of successful employed people.

[yermom]

They make WAY more money than me too...the difference is that one of us is not bitterly envious of successful employed people.

i just don't have millions to buy politicians to make loopholes for me. i'm not talking about investment income, i'm talking about fees charged to their investors

[XingTheRubicon]

i just don't have millions to buy politicians to make loopholes for me. i'm not talking about investment income, i'm talking about fees charged to their investors

Go back 10 years...raise taxes on investor fees

Less investment offers are considered by HFM/VC's due to reduced margin

Less investment capital invested due to less workable offers

Your boss' boss can't raise crucial investment capital to grow

You don't have a job

[yermom]

man, why doesn't the government just pay them then? we have all this free money to go around

[Midtowner]

Go back 10 years...raise taxes on investor fees

Less investment offers are considered by HFM/VC's due to reduced margin

Less investment capital invested due to less workable offers

Your boss' boss can't raise crucial investment capital to grow

You don't have a job

You can say the same about just about any activity in commerce.

You don't pay SNAP benefits to the non-working single mother?

She doesn't spend those SNAP benefits at the local grocer.

Fewer SNAP benefits means fewer money spent at grocers for millions of people.

This translates into millions of dollars in lost sales by the grocers, grocers go out of business.

Fewer grocers means fewer farms. Fewer farms means fewer farm supply companies. Fewer farm supply companies means death to many farm supply manufacturers... and pretty soon, you don't have a job.

[diverdog]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/6/obama-supporters-shocked-angry-new-tax-increases/\

Waaaaaaah! You mean I have to share in the pain? LOFL.

With apologies to Badger, I thought this deserved a thread of its own.

I guess this puts to rest that whole stupid notion that 47% of America pays no taxes. IMHO they need to go up more.

[XingTheRubicon]

man, why doesn't the government just pay them then? we have all this free money to go around

They do, that's what your party does.

[XingTheRubicon]

You can say the same about just about any activity in commerce.

You don't pay SNAP benefits to the non-working single mother?

She doesn't spend those SNAP benefits at the local grocer.

Fewer SNAP benefits means fewer money spent at grocers for millions of people.

This translates into millions of dollars in lost sales by the grocers, grocers go out of business.

Fewer grocers means fewer farms. Fewer farms means fewer farm supply companies. Fewer farm supply companies means death to many farm supply manufacturers... and pretty soon, you don't have a job.

which is precisely why you shouldn't become dependent on deficit spending


My example pointed to fortune 500 job creators and yours pointed to a food stamp recipient. I know you don't understand how these differ in the long term, so I'll just leave it right there.

[Midtowner]

My example pointed to fortune 500 job creators and yours pointed to a food stamp recipient. I know you don't understand how these differ in the long term, so I'll just leave it right there.

Tax loopholes are government spending.

Those things don't differ.

[XingTheRubicon]

The results differ.

...and you don't have the capacity to understand how

[KABOOKIE]

Tax loopholes are government spending.

Those things don't differ.

Heh loopholes. Sometimes they're just unintended consequences of too much lawyering.

[Curly Bill]

They make WAY more money than me too...the difference is that one of us is not bitterly envious of successful employed people.

LOL...too true, too true!

[LakeRat]

how about carried interest?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/01/02/the-big-fiscal-cliff-deal-winners-hedge-fund-and-private-equity-moguls/

I read this, can you please explain the term "Carried Interest"? I have no problem with CD interest being at 15% as well as 401k, IRA, property cap gains, as well as general Cap gains on business ventures.

They take a risk and are not guaranteed a return like a regular job is guaranteed. But I do not know what "Carried Interest" does or refers to.

[Midtowner]

Heh loopholes. Sometimes they're just unintended consequences of too much lawyering.

Hate to break it to ya, the tax code isn't written by courts.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

They'd be really surprised if the gov't had enough balls to raise taxes enough to fully fund the gov't. And I'm not just talking about the deficit/debt. What about the $100 trillion of unfunded ss/medicare liabilities? Let's fully fund gov't and see if people really want cradle to grave paternalism.

[Midtowner]

You couldn't do that, nor could you cut spending dramatically without sending the economy over the edge. If you're fine with that and don't mind going into a big depression, then own it.

For most though, none of those are options the grownups should be considering.

What's troubling is that Moody's and others might actually do their damned jobs (for once) and downgrade our credit rating. Spending cuts can happen, but not nearly at the level you some think. I'd even like to see at least increases in spending be locked down and Congress required to cut something for any new non-emergency spending, but I can dream...

[yermom]

I read this, can you please explain the term "Carried Interest"? I have no problem with CD interest being at 15% as well as 401k, IRA, property cap gains, as well as general Cap gains on business ventures.

They take a risk and are not guaranteed a return like a regular job is guaranteed. But I do not know what "Carried Interest" does or refers to.

this isn't capital gains, it's fees paid from profits, but it's taxed that way for some reason. there is more explanation here: http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-street-carried-interest-tax-issue-2012-11

[Midtowner]

this isn't capital gains, it's fees paid from profits, but it's taxed that way for some reason. there is more explanation here: http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-street-carried-interest-tax-issue-2012-11

But you still don't understand... unless these individuals are allowed to pay less taxes than almost every other sort of business out there, we are all going to starve in the darkness.

[yermom]

i just hope that our wealthy benefactor job creators don't just up and leave some day

what ever would we do?

[Midtowner]

Who is John Galt??

[LakeRat]

this isn't capital gains, it's fees paid from profits, but it's taxed that way for some reason. there is more explanation here: http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-street-carried-interest-tax-issue-2012-11

So they invest capital to get it started, if there is a profit, then they receive a check on the % of profits.

How is this tough to understand that it would be capital gains?

Keep helping me Yermon, I am trying to get there.

[Midtowner]

So they invest capital to get it started, if there is a profit, then they receive a check on the % of profits.

How is this tough to understand that it would be capital gains?

Keep helping me Yermon, I am trying to get there.

So you start a copy machine business... you invest money and time in equipment and staffing and eventually turn a profit. How is it that if you just pay yourself a dividend instead of a taxable salary, the IRS won't take too kindly to that as opposed to the aforementioned example?

[LakeRat]

So you start a copy machine business... you invest money and time in equipment and staffing and eventually turn a profit. How is it that if you just pay yourself a dividend instead of a taxable salary, the IRS won't take too kindly to that as opposed to the aforementioned example?

Not a tax guy, help me. You have a projected 50k profit. Do you take a 25k a year salary? and then take 25k as a dividend? Or do you take a 50k salary and find out you have only received a 45k profit, and have to resupply 5k to the company?

Help me learn.

[KABOOKIE]

Hate to break it to ya, the tax code isn't written by courts.

So a court is the only place you can find lawyers at work?

[Midtowner]

Not a tax guy, help me. You have a projected 50k profit. Do you take a 25k a year salary? and then take 25k as a dividend? Or do you take a 50k salary and find out you have only received a 45k profit, and have to resupply 5k to the company?

Help me learn.

As far as I know, he could declare part of it a dividend. Half though? Doubtful. Some really aggressive tax advisers will tell you to take as much as possible as a dividend, then defend it later. I don't take a dividend at all out of my business because all of the income is personally produced by me. Everyone else here is just overhead.

[Midtowner]

So a court is the only place you can find lawyers at work?

Oh, okay, so you were making another juvenile swipe at a profession instead of an actual point? Gotcha.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Oh, okay, so you were making another juvenile swipe at a profession instead of an actual point? Gotcha.

Right, so his rhetorical question( I assume it was) was incorrect?

[KABOOKIE]

Oh, okay, so you were making another juvenile swipe at a profession instead of an actual point? Gotcha.

You and many of the other 47% act like loopholes are specifically designed by wealthy geniuses. Sometimes they are unintended. Besides, you kow of how many welders, nurses and cashiers are writing tax code

[LakeRat]

As far as I know, he could declare part of it a dividend. Half though? Doubtful. Some really aggressive tax advisers will tell you to take as much as possible as a dividend, then defend it later. I don't take a dividend at all out of my business because all of the income is personally produced by me. Everyone else here is just overhead.

So you have an S corp, you pay all of the profits as salary to yourself? What is the point of incorporating?

[Midtowner]

Right, so his rhetorical question( I assume it was) was incorrect?

The IRS sure does have lawyers, but the IRS Code is written by Congress. The IRS comes up with regs from time to time or even weaker interpretations which can be sparred about in federal court. This particular bothersome provision was written by Congress. Not by "lawyering" whatever that is.

Didn't y'all take civics?

[LakeRat]

The IRS sure does have lawyers, but the IRS Code is written by Congress. The IRS comes up with regs from time to time or even weaker interpretations which can be sparred about in federal court. This particular bothersome provision was written by Congress. Not by "lawyering" whatever that is.

Didn't y'all take civics?

I went to public school!! I didn't learn much at all!!

[Midtowner]

So you have an S corp, you pay all of the profits as salary to yourself? What is the point of incorporating?

You can. You can also declare a dividend. I'm not a tax professional, so I'm not going to get that specific. I just know as a general broad principle, that if you call the whole thing a dividend or an unjustifiable sum, whatever that is, a dividend vs. salary, an audit might not be the ordinarily friendly experience it is.

But as to the point of incorporating, at this point, I don't know why anyone does an actual corporation unless they intend to go public someday. There are lots of corporate formalities which 99% of corporations totally ignore, e.g., regular meetings of directors where minutes are kept. The LLC is the way to go for small business. The advantage, of course, is that in the event of a business failure or an accident or something like that, absent a judge making a determination that you abused your corporate status to commit fraud (or something like that), your personal assets will be off limits to creditors.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

You couldn't do that, nor could you cut spending dramatically without sending the economy over the edge. If you're fine with that and don't mind going into a big depression, then own it.

For most though, none of those are options the grownups should be considering.

What's troubling is that Moody's and others might actually do their damned jobs (for once) and downgrade our credit rating. Spending cuts can happen, but not nearly at the level you some think. I'd even like to see at least increases in spending be locked down and Congress required to cut something for any new non-emergency spending, but I can dream...

I'm fine with it and will own it. The grown ups pay their bills. They don't kick the can down the road and expect another generation to pay for it. Oh yeah, you'll go through a short term deflationary period, but you'll come out on the other end with a more solid foundation for growth. We're dying a slow death as it is and setting ourselves up for hyperinflation that will be far worse than any depression.

If there were any truth in the credit ratings, our ratings would already be approaching junk status along with the UK's and most of the western world. S&P downgraded the US sovereign debt rating and the market responded by buying bonds and driving interest rates even lower.

[nutinbutdust]

There will probably be more crying if they do not have an employer funded plan.

Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/business/despite-new-health-law-some-see-sharp-rise-in-premiums.html)


Health insurance companies across the country are seeking and winning double-digit increases in premiums for some customers, even though one of the biggest objectives of the Obama administration’s health care law was to stem the rapid rise in insurance costs for consumers.

Particularly vulnerable to the high rates are small businesses and people who do not have employer-provided insurance and must buy it on their own.

In California, Aetna is proposing rate increases of as much as 22 percent, Anthem Blue Cross 26 percent and Blue Shield of California 20 percent for some of those policy holders, according to the insurers’ filings with the state for 2013. These rate requests are all the more striking after a 39 percent rise sought by Anthem Blue Cross in 2010 helped give impetus to the law, known as the Affordable Care Act, which was passed the same year and will not be fully in effect until 2014.

In other states, like Florida and Ohio, insurers have been able to raise rates by at least 20 percent for some policy holders. The rate increases can amount to several hundred dollars a month.

The proposed increases compare with about 4 percent for families with employer-based policies.

[yermom]

The IRS sure does have lawyers, but the IRS Code is written by Congress. The IRS comes up with regs from time to time or even weaker interpretations which can be sparred about in federal court. This particular bothersome provision was written by Congress. Not by "lawyering" whatever that is.

Didn't y'all take civics?

aren't most of those bastards lawyers?

checkmate.

[C&CDean]

aren't most of those bastards lawyers?

checkmate.

yerpwned

[XingTheRubicon]

heh

[diverdog]

Oh, okay, so you were making another juvenile swipe at a profession instead of an actual point? Gotcha.


I'm fine with it and will own it. The grown ups pay their bills. They don't kick the can down the road and expect another generation to pay for it. Oh yeah, you'll go through a short term deflationary period, but you'll come out on the other end with a more solid foundation for growth. We're dying a slow death as it is and setting ourselves up for hyperinflation that will be far worse than any depression.

If there were any truth in the credit ratings, our ratings would already be approaching junk status along with the UK's and most of the western world. S&P downgraded the US sovereign debt rating and the market responded by buying bonds and driving interest rates even lower.

Why would we be junk status? Many corporation carry a far larger debt burden than the US government.

[pphilfran]

We won't be near junk status...

I just think it is a terrible time to be raising taxes and making spending cuts...too much risk of a recession...and if we go into another recession than all the tax rate increases and spending cuts won't do crap to lower the deficit or the debt...

All we are getting is a piecemeal, cobbled together plan that will do little to satisfy the rating agencies or lower the debt...

[Midtowner]

Why would we be junk status? Many corporation carry a far larger debt burden than the US government.

Just another example of ideology trumping objective reality for most.

[KABOOKIE]

aren't most of those bastards lawyers?

checkmate.

Exactly.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Why would we be junk status? Many corporation carry a far larger debt burden than the US government.

Are you sure about that? When you consider the $80 to 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities for SS and medicare. Corporations have to report their pension funding. While those unfunded liabilities may not sit on their balance sheet, I don't think any corporation with 5 times the amount of liabilities to whatever you would consider the equivalent of GDP (revenue, assets?) would be triple A rated.

You also have to consider the company and the industry. Normally a company in a mature industry with a 1% growth rate would carry a far lower debt burden than, say a technology startup.

Of course, sovereign debt and corporate debt are completely incongruous, making comparisons ridiculous, but you brought it up.

[cleller]

If the bright side of this mess is looking at all the welfare dollars that keep the economy limping along, I'm really depressed.

[XingTheRubicon]

Are you sure about that? When you consider the $80 to 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities for SS and medicare. Corporations have to report their pension funding. While those unfunded liabilities may not sit on their balance sheet, I don't think any corporation with 5 times the amount of liabilities to whatever you would consider the equivalent of GDP (revenue, assets?) would be triple A rated.

You also have to consider the company and the industry. Normally a company in a mature industry with a 1% growth rate would carry a far lower debt burden than, say a technology startup.

Of course, sovereign debt and corporate debt are completely incongruous, making comparisons ridiculous, but you brought it up.

BBS, they (libs) literally have no idea what you just typed.


One fun exercise for the ignorant MSNBCers can be look up our total collected revenue for 1999. Higher tax rates, internet boom, housing surging along, anemic unemployment etc...now adjust for inflation. Now try to remove that "I've never bought and sold or owned any business of consequence in my entire life, but I'm still an mouthbreathing economic wizard," look off your face.

[okie52]

Just another example of ideology trumping objective reality for most.

Are we supporting pragmatic approaches here over ideological ones? Might pass that on to Obama when he wants to raise capital gains tax rates.

[Midtowner]

Are we supporting pragmatic approaches here over ideological ones? Might pass that on to Obama when he wants to raise capital gains tax rates.

It should depend on which kind. Short term? Oh yes, raise 'em lots. Long term? I wouldn't have a problem giving preferential rates to the first 450K or so, then taxing it like ordinary income at 39.6%.

[diverdog]

Are you sure about that? When you consider the $80 to 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities for SS and medicare. Corporations have to report their pension funding. While those unfunded liabilities may not sit on their balance sheet, I don't think any corporation with 5 times the amount of liabilities to whatever you would consider the equivalent of GDP (revenue, assets?) would be triple A rated.

You also have to consider the company and the industry. Normally a company in a mature industry with a 1% growth rate would carry a far lower debt burden than, say a technology startup.

Of course, sovereign debt and corporate debt are completely incongruous, making comparisons ridiculous, but you brought it up.

I was thinking debt to equity...the ability to service debt. But your last remarks are noted.

[okie52]

It should depend on which kind. Short term? Oh yes, raise 'em lots. Long term? I wouldn't have a problem giving preferential rates to the first 450K or so, then taxing it like ordinary income at 39.6%.

Even though capital gains tax rate increases have historically reduced tax revenues....that kind of pragmatism?

[sappstuf]

Even though capital gains tax rate increases have historically reduced tax revenues....that kind of pragmatism?

The Party of Science has always had serious problems with basic math.

[okie52]

The Party of Science has always had serious problems with basic math.

Can't be...ideology trumping objective reality?

[sappstuf]

Can't be...ideology trumping objective reality?

Reality is an illusion.. Just like their math.

[okie52]

Reality is an illusion.. Just like their math.

LOL...

[Midtowner]

Even though capital gains tax rate increases have historically reduced tax revenues....that kind of pragmatism?

It's not an apples:apples comparison. After $450K isn't going to hurt most investors, but some uber rich folks? They need to pay more. Why? 'Cuz that's where all the money is. When you have six people in the U.S. with more combined wealth than the bottom 30.5% of Americans, that's some serious freaking income disparity. I'm not even saying we take their money and redistribute it, but we have a debt problem and if we can't go after low hanging fruit like that, I think we've got some serious troubles.

[okie52]

It's not an apples:apples comparison. After $450K isn't going to hurt most investors, but some uber rich folks? They need to pay more. Why? 'Cuz that's where all the money is. When you have six people in the U.S. with more combined wealth than the bottom 30.5% of Americans, that's some serious freaking income disparity. I'm not even saying we take their money and redistribute it, but we have a debt problem and if we can't go after low hanging fruit like that, I think we've got some serious troubles.

Nonsense...just what investors do you think buffet was bitching about for the last decade?
And your president already stated he would increase capital gains taxes even if it reduced tax revenues out of "fairness". Ideology over objective reality there counselor...

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I was thinking debt to equity...the ability to service debt. But your last remarks are noted.

Debt to Equity is a static state ratio. I would also think the markets would be very hesitant to loan to an entity that's spending twice what it's taking in.

Look, we all know why US Treasury Debt keeps it's high ratings. Calling US Treasuries junk debt would be admitting that our entire financial system is a sham since US Treasuries are at the heart of the world financial system. There's no doubt that the US has remarkable resources and can turn around its financial future. But there's also little doubt that entitlement spending is on an unsustainable course and Washington has shown no will to deal with it. Any sober assessment of the US fiscal situation would admit that a US default or, more likely, inflating our way out of the debt hole is becoming a more and more real prospect.

[FaninAma]

Bourbon, the US is like a junkie who is also a drug dealer. We have ensured that the entire world is addicted to debt. It was done purposefully. Who profits the most from the continued accumulation of debt?

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Bourbon, the US is like a junkie who is also a drug dealer. We have ensured that the entire world is addicted to debt. It was done purposefully. Who profits the most from the continued accumulation of debt?

Who else but folks like Buffett and his ilk. Tax me more. See I'm a nice guy. But keep inflating that asset bubble so I get richer while the little guy gets squeezed with higher gas and grocery bills.

Truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[FaninAma]

Who else but folks like Buffett and his ilk. Tax me more. See I'm a nice guy. But keep inflating that asset bubble so I get richer while the little guy gets squeezed with higher gas and grocery bills.

Truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Exactly. You can include entities like JPM, BAC, and Goldman-Sachs in there, too.

[TAFBSooner]

I read this, can you please explain the term "Carried Interest"? I have no problem with CD interest being at 15% as well as 401k, IRA, property cap gains, as well as general Cap gains on business ventures.

They take a risk and are not guaranteed a return like a regular job is guaranteed. But I do not know what "Carried Interest" does or refers to.

LakeRat, here's the Wikipedia definition. It's clearer and less biased than the Business Insider article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carried_interest#Taxation_of_carried_interest

Hedge fund managers do invest their own money in the fund, get the same rate of return on their invested funds, and pay taxes at the investment rate. If we as a society want to privilege capital over labor, that's consistent.

If the fund exceeds its target return, the manager ALSO gets what amounts to a performance bonus. This is called "carried interest" so it can be taxed as investment income (the "some reason" is that Wall Street has influence on our government more in proportion to their wealth than to their population). We liberals complain that (a) your performance bonus or mine would be taxed as ordinary income, so the investment manager's bonus should be also (it's not a guaranteed salary, but it's also not based on money they have put at risk), and (b) the favorable tax treatment for so-called "carried interest" leads them to make riskier choices with Other People's Money than they would with their own - which was part of the cause of the late unpleasantness in our economy.

[landrun]

it was a temporary drop. stop whining.

i don't see how this is Obama's fault. talk to your GOP led House that also had to pass this.


Nothing is Obama's fault is it?
This was his policy and the 'GOP led House' caved in.
Had they not you would be posting that they caused us to go over the cliff.
Now they cave in and Obama's tax increase is the Repubs fault.

The dems rely on people like to keep putting them in office. I hope you enjoy you tax increase. I bet you didn't realize the dems categorize anyone with a job a 'rich' and that YOU are in the 1%.

[yermom]

if you are going to blame Obama, you have to blame the House too

Obama isn't a dictator, he can't just pass whatever he wants

would it have been just Obama's fault if we went over the cliff? i don't even like Obama that much, but all of a sudden any tax increase is a travesty and the end of the world and the start to socialism?

people need to stop being so dramatic. am i happy amount my payroll taxes going up? no. am i losing sleep about it? no.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Obama isn't a dictator, he can't just pass whatever he wants.

He seems to be doing a pretty good job of doing that, while not getting his hands dirty...

[The Profit]

The payroll tax break was always meant to be temporary to take some of the sting out of the Bush recession (near depression). In fact, all of the Bush era tax cuts were temporary. Obama let them ride an additional year, but it was time for those making $400K-plus to return to the successful Clinton-era rates.

[XingTheRubicon]

The payroll tax break was always meant to be temporary to take some of the sting out of the results of the Clinton-era repeal of Glass-Steagall. In fact, all of the Bush era tax cuts were temporary. Obama let them ride an additional year, but it was time for those making $400K-plus to return to the successful Internet bubble-era rates.

fixed

[Midtowner]

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_5380163_6q6hkshj3s.png

[soonercruiser]

It's all good. I just think it's funny that a lot of what you link here I first saw linked on drudge. It's apparent that we read the same site each morning :D

Well... that site and this one too I guess :P

Please quit "drudging " things up!
:pirate:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_5380163_6q6hkshj3s.png

That would be a lib take on it...

How about "If we subvert the education process, make people no longer believe in American values, no longer understand or know American history and no longer teach civics, we can dominate them and mold them into the non-self supporting people we need them to be while becoming dependent upon the government and ignorant to everything that made America great"...

[FaninAma]

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_5380163_6q6hkshj3s.png


Yeah, like the base of the Democratic party values education. LMFAO. You truly are clueless.

[Midtowner]

Yeah, like the base of the Democratic party values education. LMFAO. You truly are clueless.

Double digit cuts happened to Oklahoma's schools right when the Republicans began controlling everything. Higher ed is receiving fewer and fewer state subsidies. State legislators are attempting to legislate religion into the classroom.

Coincidence?

[XingTheRubicon]

Which party is smarter...if you averaged the constituents of each party?


Higher IQ...which one.

[diverdog]

Which party is smarter...if you averaged the constituents of each party?


Higher IQ...which one.

Cletus vs Shaniquah. This could be good.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Double digit cuts happened to Oklahoma's schools right when the Republicans began controlling everything. Higher ed is receiving fewer and fewer state subsidies. State legislators are attempting to legislate religion into the classroom.

Coincidence?

Hell no! They are taking education back from the Progressives and the ilk of Ayres... Some of the dumbest Ph.D. students I ever met were from the College of Education...They also had some sharp people, but boy were they indoctrinated into anti-American values...

[XingTheRubicon]

Cletus vs Shaniquah. This could be good.

Cletus has a job.:cold:

[diverdog]

Cletus has a job.:cold:

Hell yeah. He cooks meth.

[XingTheRubicon]

If only Sheniquah could teach Cletus about the perils of drug use.

[FaninAma]

Double digit cuts happened to Oklahoma's schools right when the Republicans began controlling everything. Higher ed is receiving fewer and fewer state subsidies. State legislators are attempting to legislate religion into the classroom.

Coincidence?
The most ardent supporters of the Democrats are blacks, hispanics, single women. Check out their dedication to education. In other words, they could give a crap about education.

The best education programs are those that have a lot of parenteral involvement and local control. And I defy you to show us where the Federal education budget has been cut. At the state level the funding of schools has to compete with other services under the limits imposed by balanced budget requirements. So if the economy sucks, which it does, and the state has to cut its budget you tell us which services should be cut.

Now if Washington wants to share that magic money printing machine they use to run up our kids' credit cards then you may have a point. But the states don't have the luxury so you don't have a legitimate point.

In the real world(whcih doesn't include DC) everybody has to live on a budget. If educvation is important to your state then raise state taxes. If raising state taxes drives away businesses then don't bitch about that. You leftists need to grow up and start acting like adults instead of entitled littel brats with your hands out expecting others to pay for what you want.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The most ardent supporters of the Democrats are blacks, hispanics, single women. Check out their dedication to education. In other words, they could give a crap about education.

The best education programs are those that have a lot of parenteral involvement and local control. And I defy you to show us where the Federal education budget has been cut. At the state level the funding of schools has to compete with other services under the limits imposed by balanced budget requirements. So if the economy sucks, which it does, and the state has to cut its budget you tell us which services should be cut.

Now if Washington wants to share that magic money printing machine they use to run up our kids' credit cards then you may have a point. But the states don't have the luxury so you don't have a legitimate point.

In the real world(whcih doesn't include DC) everybody has to live on a budget. If educvation is important to your state then raise state taxes. If raising state taxes drives away businesses then don't bitch about that. You leftists need to grow up and start acting like adults instead of entitled littel brats with your hands out expecting others to pay for what you want.

Pwnt.

[diverdog]

If only Sheniquah could teach Cletus about the perils of drug use.

Ya don't bitch to ya pimp.

[diverdog]

The most ardent supporters of the Democrats are blacks, hispanics, single women. Check out their dedication to education. In other words, they could give a crap about education.

The best education programs are those that have a lot of parenteral involvement and local control. And I defy you to show us where the Federal education budget has been cut. At the state level the funding of schools has to compete with other services under the limits imposed by balanced budget requirements. So if the economy sucks, which it does, and the state has to cut its budget you tell us which services should be cut.

Now if Washington wants to share that magic money printing machine they use to run up our kids' credit cards then you may have a point. But the states don't have the luxury so you don't have a legitimate point.

In the real world(whcih doesn't include DC) everybody has to live on a budget. If educvation is important to your state then raise state taxes. If raising state taxes drives away businesses then don't bitch about that. You leftists need to grow up and start acting like adults instead of entitled littel brats with your hands out expecting others to pay for what you want.

And now for the rest of the story:


Whether they like it or not, nearly everyone in the United States reaps the benefits of government.When asked about participating in specific government social programs, 97 percent of Republicans and 98 percent of Democrats say they have taken part in a government program of some kind, according to a 2008 survey run by the Cornell Survey Research Institute (https://sri.cornell.edu/sri/news.2011.cfm). Not just one or two either; the survey found that people had used around five social policies on average.The thing is, more than half the country denies having used a government program (http://jrnetsolserver.shorensteincente.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/PerceptionGovt-KochMettler-022812.pdf) at all.Those findings are of particular interest now, after a Mitt Romney fundraising video leaked, one in which he called the 47 percent of Americans who don’t pay income taxes “dependent on government.” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/mitt-romney-video_n_1829455.html) This survey’s findings show that those Americans who pay income taxes are also benefitting from government assistance in some form, even if they are not fully aware of it.The confusion may come from what some call “submerged” government policies, those distributed via the tax code or through private organizations. It’s these types of benefits that explain comments like those of one man who in 2009 told his local congressman to “keep your government hands off my Medicare” (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/opinion/our-hidden-government-benefits.html?_r=2) at a town hall meeting, the NYT reports. Around a quarter of Medicare benefits were distributed through private insurance companies in 2010.All that said, the demographics of Americans relying on government benefits are changing. A separate study found that the portion of benefits going to the poorest fifth of Americans has decreased by almost 20 percent between 1979 and 2007 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/even-critics-of-safety-net-increasingly-depend-on-it.html), according to the NYT.(h/t The New York Times (http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/we-are-the-96-percent/?ref=opinion))

[yermom]

i'm sure you guys will put your fingers in your ears(eyes?) and ignore or discount this too:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677


Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percentof the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.
Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.

Cruiser wants a smaller check, i guess.

[Midtowner]

Another fine example of ideology trumping reality.

[FaninAma]

And now for the rest of the story:


Whether they like it or not, nearly everyone in the United States reaps the benefits of government.When asked about participating in specific government social programs, 97 percent of Republicans and 98 percent of Democrats say they have taken part in a government program of some kind, according to a 2008 survey run by the Cornell Survey Research Institute (https://sri.cornell.edu/sri/news.2011.cfm). Not just one or two either; the survey found that people had used around five social policies on average.The thing is, more than half the country denies having used a government program (http://jrnetsolserver.shorensteincente.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/PerceptionGovt-KochMettler-022812.pdf) at all.Those findings are of particular interest now, after a Mitt Romney fundraising video leaked, one in which he called the 47 percent of Americans who don’t pay income taxes “dependent on government.” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/mitt-romney-video_n_1829455.html) This survey’s findings show that those Americans who pay income taxes are also benefitting from government assistance in some form, even if they are not fully aware of it.The confusion may come from what some call “submerged” government policies, those distributed via the tax code or through private organizations. It’s these types of benefits that explain comments like those of one man who in 2009 told his local congressman to “keep your government hands off my Medicare” (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/opinion/our-hidden-government-benefits.html?_r=2) at a town hall meeting, the NYT reports. Around a quarter of Medicare benefits were distributed through private insurance companies in 2010.All that said, the demographics of Americans relying on government benefits are changing. A separate study found that the portion of benefits going to the poorest fifth of Americans has decreased by almost 20 percent between 1979 and 2007 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/even-critics-of-safety-net-increasingly-depend-on-it.html), according to the NYT.(h/t The New York Times (http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/we-are-the-96-percent/?ref=opinion))

Hence the debt mess we are in. The lessons of uncontrolled deficit spending will soon be making an appearance.

[FaninAma]

i'm sure you guys will put your fingers in your ears(eyes?) and ignore or discount this too:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677



Cruiser wants a smaller check, i guess.
If it is determined thateverybody wants the government to be our nanny....fine. But we need to pay our own tab. Don't expect our kids to. Either raise taxes until they cripple the economy or cut spending. Quit acting like teenagers with your parents' credit card.

[diverdog]

If it is determined thateverybody wants the government to be our nanny....fine. But we need to pay our own tab. Don't expect our kids to. Either raise taxes until they cripple the economy or cut spending. Quit acting like teenagers with your parents' credit card.


I do not disagree with this. However, I do get tired of you painting with a broad brush and act like this deficit was only caused by the so called "liberals" in this country. A lot of people get money from the government even conservatives.

[nutinbutdust]

on a lighter note. an article about people tweeting about SS tax raise...
Crushed unicorn dreams: ‘Why is my paycheck less’ turns to Obama vote regrets; ‘I should have voted Romney’LINK (http://twitchy.com/2013/01/06/crushed-unicorn-dreams-why-is-my-paycheck-less-turns-to-obama-vote-regrets-i-should-have-voted-romney/)

[Midtowner]

I do not disagree with this. However, I do get tired of you painting with a broad brush and act like this deficit was only caused by the so called "liberals" in this country. A lot of people get money from the government even conservatives.

And a lot of the deficit spending was voted for by your so-called conservatives.

[yermom]

If it is determined thateverybody wants the government to be our nanny....fine. But we need to pay our own tab. Don't expect our kids to. Either raise taxes until they cripple the economy or cut spending. Quit acting like teenagers with your parents' credit card.

so what meaningful cuts are there that don't involve starving grandma? it seems like anything that isn't medicare/medicaid, social security or military spending is like shooting a water gun at a house fire. are we really willing to let those people fend for themselves?

[FaninAma]

so what meaningful cuts are there that don't involve starving grandma? it seems like anything that isn't medicare/medicaid, social security or military spending is like shooting a water gun at a house fire. are we really willing to let those people fend for themselves?

Can you link to a source that showed wide spread starvation of children and the elderly in this country before FDR and LBJ "rescued" us all from our lives of suffering and poverty? Even in the Great Depression when pickings were slim I don't remember being taught about mass starvation in history class.

[yermom]

there are already kids that don't eat if they aren't at school getting free lunches as it is

[XingTheRubicon]

so what meaningful cuts are there that don't involve starving grandma? it seems like anything that isn't medicare/medicaid, social security or military spending is like shooting a water gun at a house fire. are we really willing to let those people fend for themselves?

poor working families have skyrocketed in bennies in the last 10 years..

You do realize there are people making 40K/yr getting food stamps, right...and other benefits for rent, heat, etc.

That means that I am subsidizing their white water season passes, iphones, cigs and liquor, nascar tickets, and rims. Even though they make enough to live in a sh*tty apartment, buy cheap food and clothes (like EVERY freaking lower middle class family did 30 years ago) somebody decided they need more.

[FaninAma]

there are already kids that don't eat if they aren't at school getting free lunches as it is

Then their parents need to be turned into CPS. There is no excuse for a kid to go hungry in this country with the expansion of the Food Stamp and WIC programs. Additionally there are community food banks everywhere and other community food programs. There are 3 churches in our community of 15,000 that will take food to families if requested.

I work with some of the poorest families in Oklahoma and I can tell you that while childhood obesity is a huge problem in the population I haven't dealt with too many kids who are starving.

[C&CDean]

Then their parents need to be turned into CPS. There is no excuse for a kid to go hungry in this country with the expansion of the Food Stamp and WIC programs. Additionally there are community food banks everywhere and other community food programs. There are 3 churches in our community of 15,000 that will take food to families if requested.

I work with some of the poorest families in Oklahoma and I can tell you that while childhood obesity is a huge problem in the population I haven't dealt with too many kids who are starving.

Careful Steve, ourmom doesn't like troof.

And I agree. If a child is starving, their parents need to be arrested.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Then their parents need to be turned into CPS. There is no excuse for a kid to go hungry in this country with the expansion of the Food Stamp and WIC programs. Additionally there are community food banks everywhere and other community food programs. There are 3 churches in our community of 15,000 that will take food to families if requested.

I work with some of the poorest families in Oklahoma and I can tell you that while childhood obesity is a huge problem in the population I haven't dealt with too many kids who are starving.

Kids going hungry is a big problem here in this corner of the state..We do a backpack program where we discretely give the the kids food in their backpack on Friday to take home with them due to hunger issues..

People aren't letting their kids go hungry because they can't get food, they are doing it because they are ******s who should have never reproduced.

So...What do you do in the meantime? These kids aren't going to be calling food banks..The only way we know is by teachers identifying them to us..And turning parents in? All that will do is make the kids life hell when they get back home.

[badger]

Kids going hungry is a big problem here in this corner of the state..We do a backpack program where we discretely give the the kids food in their backpack on Friday to take home with them due to hunger issues..

People aren't letting their kids go hungry because they can't get food, they are doing it because they are ******s who should have never reproduced.

So...What do you do in the meantime? These kids aren't going to be calling food banks..The only way we know is by teachers identifying them to us..And turning parents in? All that will do is make the kids life hell when they get back home.

Pretty much. TPS does food backpacks at some schools too. Hell, even TPS teachers need help with getting basic supplies via donation drives -- stuff like copy paper!

The basic theme on the problem is that there's no accountability when there's too much money money, and when there's accountability for money, there's not enough.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

i'm sure you guys will put your fingers in your ears(eyes?) and ignore or discount this too:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677



Cruiser wants a smaller check, i guess.

The Ponzi scheme here is out of control and not sustainable. It needs to be cut back, period!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

there are already kids that don't eat if they aren't at school getting free lunches as it is

So what? get their lazy assed parent to work and make them Momma's Daddies go to work and pay for their tryst...

BTW, I am not talking about those who have hit a rough patch. I am speaking of the generationally habituated welfare idiots, those out there trysting and making babies and not in the home, unwed women having multiple babies, but not working or thinking of how to care for them babies other than the gubment ...

[yermom]

Careful Steve, ourmom doesn't like troof.

And I agree. If a child is starving, their parents need to be arrested.

where did you get the impression i don't like troof?