Congress Sneaks One by Obama - Enforces Religious Freedom in Military Too

[soonercruiser]

So, when Obama had to sign the defense authorization bill, he just had to add a Presidental letter saying that he doesn't believe that military Chaplins should be able to practice religious freedom.
'Nuff said!

http://onenewsnow.com//ap/politics/obama-condemns-rights-of-christian-military-chaplains


AP Politics
Obama condemns rights of Christian military chaplains

President Barack Obama has signed the $633 billion defense bill into law, but has criticized one of its provisions protecting conscience rights.

The provision exempts chaplains from ceremonies like same-sex weddings that they oppose based on their faith.

It also says the military cannot punish chaplains or other service members for their religious beliefs and must accommodate them unless the individual's speech or actions threaten good order and discipline.

In a signing statement, Obama called the conscience provision "unnecessary and ill-advised" and said his administration remains committed "to protecting the rights of gay and lesbian service members." (Reaction from retired chaplain and from member of Congress)

Here is the president's full statement:

Here is the president's full statement:

"Section 533 is an unnecessary and ill-advised provision, as the military already appropriately protects the freedom of conscience of chaplains and service members. The Secretary of Defense will ensure that the implementing regulations do not permit or condone discriminatory actions that compromise good order and discipline or otherwise violate military codes of conduct. My Administration remains fully committed to continuing the successful implementation of the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and to protecting the rights of gay and lesbian service members; Section 533 will not alter that."

The Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty responded that "the president is not at liberty to disregard the law" he signed. "Chaplains should be able to stand by their faith traditions and honor their commitments to God's Word," said Alliance executive director Ron Crews.

[OU_Sooners75]

Boy for being such a devout "Christain" Obama sure does go against his own beliefs to appease everyone!


Of course I guess you would have to be a Christain first huh?

[StoopTroup]

Frank Keating did it everytime they killed an inmate. Yet he felt his Civic Duty came before his own personal beliefs or religious beliefs.

Acting like President Obama is the first politician to act in this manner is your business but it's hardly a precedent set by an American with political clout.

[Midtowner]

Well gay marriage is legal in many states now and frankly, that chaplain speaking in that manner was extremely insubordinate.

[okie52]

Well gay marriage is legal in many states now and frankly, that chaplain speaking in that manner was extremely insubordinate.

Retired chaplains aren't insubordinate, counselor.

[diverdog]

Well gay marriage is legal in many states now and frankly, that chaplain speaking in that manner was extremely insubordinate.

The military has always been a test bed for changes in society. Sometimes they are dragged kicking and screaming to the table but in the end they make it work. I have no doubt that over time the issue will not make a hill of beans of difference for our combat readiness. At this point it is not a big deal.

[okie52]

The military has always been a test bed for changes in society. Sometimes they are dragged kicking and screaming to the table but in the end they make it work. I have no doubt that over time the issue will not make a hill of beans of difference for our combat readiness. At this point it is not a big deal.

And Hussein just flip flopped on another issue.

[soonercruiser]

Frank Keating did it everytime they killed an inmate. Yet he felt his Civic Duty came before his own personal beliefs or religious beliefs.

Acting like President Obama is the first politician to act in this manner is your business but it's hardly a precedent set by an American with political clout.

Very UNEDUCATED post, Stoop!
(Unlike abortion, assisted suicide, gay marriage, and euthanasia..)To the Catholic Church, the death penalty is not a B&W teaching.
The Popes have written numerous times that this is not a preeminent dogma...that the death penalty is permiited when society is placed at risk. (Even though YOU would try to make it so...)
Only John Paul II pushed that envelope with saying that it should be "very rare" that the death penalty is used to protect society when other means are available.
If you look at the statistics on murder, rape. and henious crimes....it certainly is used rarely!
(Don't forget to stir into the pot the states that forbid the death penalty, even when it should be used to protect society.)

[soonercruiser]

The military has always been a test bed for changes in society. Sometimes they are dragged kicking and screaming to the table but in the end they make it work. I have no doubt that over time the issue will not make a hill of beans of difference for our combat readiness. At this point it is not a big deal.

You guys are off subject!
The issue at hand is forcing military chaplins to perform gay marriages, when it is against the conscience of their religion.
That is precisely what Obummer would do, if allowed!

[diverdog]

You guys are off subject!
The issue at hand is forcing military chaplins to perform gay marriages, when it is against the conscience of their religion.
That is precisely what Obummer would do, if allowed!

Cruiser:

How is this off subject? The military was forced to allow blacks in as equals and then women. It will be the same with gays. Our military is a reflection of society for better or worse.

[cleller]

Good grief. Some ministers believe with all their heart that same sex marriage is a violation of the belief systems they have devoted their lives too. To perform such an act would be against their principals, and destroy their faith in their ability to serve their God. Is that too difficult to understand?

No one would for one second ever dream of forcing this issue upon a muslim individual, let alone a muslim military cleric, or whatever they're called.

Why is it we respect the muslim's position on same sex marriage, but not a Christian's?

[diverdog]

Good grief. Some ministers believe with all their heart that same sex marriage is a violation of the belief systems they have devoted their lives too. To perform such an act would be against their principals, and destroy their faith in their ability to serve their God. Is that too difficult to understand?

No one would for one second ever dream of forcing this issue upon a muslim individual, let alone a muslim military cleric, or whatever they're called.

Why is it we respect the muslim's position on same sex marriage, but not a Christian's?

Cleller:

The problem is two fold. One the military is subordinate to civilian law and two they get paid tax money that is paid by both fundamentalist Christians and gay activist. If they have a problem with taking a lawful order from the CIC or their superiors then they are in the wrong line of work.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Heh.

Buttsex.

[LiveLaughLove]

Cleller:

The problem is two fold. One the military is subordinate to civilian law and two they get paid tax money that is paid by both fundamentalist Christians and gay activist. If they have a problem with taking a lawful order from the CIC or their superiors then they are in the wrong line of work.

This won't be a problem in a year or two because the truly devout conscientious Christian chaplains will have left the service. This is what liberals want. They are purging society in general.

Don't like it, leave. Don't like Obamacare, shut your business down. Don't want to be a part of a gay marriage, shut your business down or be fined out of existence.

It's a purposeful culling.

If you were told to shoot your child, you would not do it. If they told you, you would lose everything you own, you would not betray that love. If they threatened your wife, your parents, yourself, you would still refuse to shoot your own child, because that love is so strong. But you flippantly say chaplains had better follow those orders or get out. They are to deny their love of Christ and his teachings simply because the majority says so. And for you, it's no big deal. But it's everything for them.

It's too bad as a society we can't even comprehend that any longer.

[Midtowner]

Shooting your child is hardly the same as performing same sex marriages. That's like comparing stubbing your toe to being stabbed in the heart. It doesn't work.

Idiot fundamentalist Christians were against interracial marriage for the longest time. Many still are. Yep, we "culled" them alright, or maybe society evolved past the stupid? We've had the discussion over Green's ridiculous attempt to undermine ObamaCare. I'm not giving him great odds there.

Chaplains better follow military law, or yes, GTFO. Soldiers' constitutional rights are not the same as citizens.

[FaninAma]

Midtowner, you have no clue. I'm a non-Christain heathern but even I know that Christians put their love and faith in Christ and his teachings before even family. Ever heard of the martyred Saints who died rather than renounce their faith?

You don't even understand their faith yet you feel you have the right to dictate to them how they practice their faith.

Maybe it's your perspective that you expect everybody else to see the world in shades of grey without bedrock principles.And you are more comfortable supporting politicians with the same life view as you.

[cleller]

Luckily, its a moot issue for now, as our country still values that a chaplain's religious beliefs cannot be shoved aside for the sake of overzealous political correctness. Our history has a pretty clear record on allowing religious freedom in the face of government intrusion.

Ministers have never been forced to perform marriages against their will, as far as I know. There is no reason to force a chaplain to do so. No one is depriving anyone any rights, gays can still marry, if the law allows. We hear a lot about "consenting adults" in these situations, in this scenario should the chaplain not have the right of his consent? Try showing up at you local Catholic church with a marriage license and bullying the priest into marrying you.

One thing is certain, if the Army, etc expects to have a Catholic priest within its ranks, they won't push this issue.

What a stupid position.

[SicEmBaylor]

This is one of the least offensive parts of that godforsaken bill.

[soonercruiser]

Cleller:

The problem is two fold. One the military is subordinate to civilian law and two they get paid tax money that is paid by both fundamentalist Christians and gay activist. If they have a problem with taking a lawful order from the CIC or their superiors then they are in the wrong line of work.

Duh!
Off subject again!
The subject is the religious freedom of the military chaplins. And Obutthead's statement of objection!
It's all about pushing a fully secular society to the socialist!
And, yes they are under ciivil law.....and the bill says that they cannot be forced to perform marriage ceremonies for!

[diverdog]

This won't be a problem in a year or two because the truly devout conscientious Christian chaplains will have left the service. This is what liberals want. They are purging society in general.

Don't like it, leave. Don't like Obamacare, shut your business down. Don't want to be a part of a gay marriage, shut your business down or be fined out of existence.

It's a purposeful culling.

If you were told to shoot your child, you would not do it. If they told you, you would lose everything you own, you would not betray that love. If they threatened your wife, your parents, yourself, you would still refuse to shoot your own child, because that love is so strong. But you flippantly say chaplains had better follow those orders or get out. They are to deny their love of Christ and his teachings simply because the majority says so. And for you, it's no big deal. But it's everything for them.

It's too bad as a society we can't even comprehend that any longer.

You are being awfully melodramatic. I do not think the military has ever forced a chaplain to marry someone.

[KantoSooner]

Whether in the military or not, why on earth would a gay couple want to be married by a cleric who hated them and everything they stood for in a church that was only doing the ceremony with a gun to its head?
You'd think that all that negativity would be kind of a buzz-kill on what should be, relatively speaking, a happy day in a person's life.
Surely a Unitarian could be found, roaming around somewhere close. At worst just go down to the court clerk and get it done there. You're still just as married. Spend the extra money on champagne and go walk around barefoot in the sunshine.

[KantoSooner]

You are being awfully melodramatic. I do not think the military has ever forced a chaplain to marry someone.

It's part of the schtick, Dog. Being the victim and persecuted is a big part of the self-righteousness. It ignores the fact that everything worth owning or controlling in our fine nation has been owned and controlled by Christians since about 15 minutes after the Mayflower landed, but, hey what's a little inconvenient truthyness?

[diverdog]

It's part of the schtick, Dog. Being the victim and persecuted is a big part of the self-righteousness. It ignores the fact that everything worth owning or controlling in our fine nation has been owned and controlled by Christians since about 15 minutes after the Mayflower landed, but, hey what's a little inconvenient truthyness?

The joke is really on them. The military, especially combat units hate marriage. It is messy and causes issues on long deployments.