A sober evaluation of the Sooners of 2012

[85Sooner]

Don't want to open any more bags of worms because there is a lot right with the OU football program. It can be exciting and productive but it is no longer dominate in any way. The Stoops/Huepel era needs to be renewed, refreshed or replaced. Over the last few years too may third and shorts, caused and missed. Too many red zone failures. The Belldozer covered part of this up but is not good coaching and or winning philosophy. Too many poor uses of time outs, (three really bad ones last night, two were major miscalls). Too many records set against lesser opponents and too many loses to any team of caliber. 2000 seems and is years ago, Championships in a middle of the road league, are no longer enough. We still make pretty good players of our recruits but no major game changers. One or two more years, no financial rewards or raises until it is corrected or some team somewhere frees us from our current destiny. Only major positive I feel right now is Thank God we don't have Mack Brown who easily takes the best players and makes them average.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Look, if Stoops will just concentrate of defense again and tell Heupel to get a ball control offense install or get lost, everything will be fine. We are way too into this stupid spread offense one side of the ball and the defense of it on the other.

Also, suspend any defensive back who attempts a shoulder tackle. Half to three-quarters of our defensive problems would be solved if every defensive back wasn't trying to make an ESPN/Highlight shoulder smash for a tackle instead of the old, boring wrap 'em up and get 'em on the ground tackle.

[SCOUT]

Also, suspend any defensive back who attempts a shoulder tackle. Half to three-quarters of our defensive problems would be solved if every defensive back wasn't trying to make an ESPN/Highlight shoulder smash for a tackle instead of the old, boring wrap 'em up and get 'em on the ground tackle.

This

[colleyvillesooner]

The missed tackles last night made me so sick.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The missed tackles are a symptom. You gave one of the root causes, but the fact that nobody hustles to the ball carrier is a bigger issue. There was a time when 7-8 jerseys would be around the ball, now we are lucky to have one.

[OUNASH]

Stoops has alot of work ahead of him. They need to go back to fundamental football of blocking and tackling, each of which we dont do very well. Will Stoops make the changes necessary to right the ship? His past history doesnt indicate that any big changes are on the horizon.

[tulsaoilerfan]

The missed tackles are a symptom. You gave one of the root causes, but the fact that nobody hustles to the ball carrier is a bigger issue. There was a time when 7-8 jerseys would be around the ball, now we are lucky to have one.

Totally agree; the main difference I noticed Friday night was how well the Aggies tackled in space then we do; their first tackler almost always made the play

[C&CDean]

Control-Alt-Delete. Stoops needs to reboot.

[TahoeSOONER]

I remember a time not long ago where Oklahoma flew to the football and was one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the country. Especially tackling and getting off blocks. It's time to get back to basics and please don't give me this spread, times have changed, excuse. Nothing has changed about the basics of playing good fundamental football. Getting to the ball and wrapping up will always be there.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I remember a time not long ago where Oklahoma flew to the football and was one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the country. Especially tackling and getting off blocks. It's time to get back to basics and please don't give me this spread, times have changed, excuse. Nothing has changed about the basics of playing good fundamental football. Getting to the ball and wrapping up will always be there.

Oh yeah i forgot we can't shed blocks worth a damn either; thanks for mentioning that!

[basel90]

His coaching staff , except for norvell, is very weak . Kiss, shipping, kittle etc.. All are not top 20 material. Mike stoops bringing kish with him from zona makes me wonder if he still has the defensive acumen.
Heuple is still work in progress.

[Petro-Sooner]

Laundry is the greatest ever.

[badger]

Related since the thread title says sober but this texags thread is anything but sober-minded. (http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2248479&page=1&forum_id=5)

I just didn't want to start a new thread. It's really funny though... texags arguing with their usually moral-high-ground-superiority complex. Johnny has really challenged their mindset by waving cash at casinos, drinking champagne (he's underage) and more, all made even more widespread on the Internet by none other than TMZ.

[BillyBall]

A 20 year old college kid drinking? For shame...

[StoopTroup]

At least he didn't have half a gram of coke on him like USC's QB did. Great piece by ESPN.


Todd Marinovich

[picasso]

His past history doesnt indicate that any big changes are on the horizon.

Once again I'm baffled by this statement. You guys say this **** just as he's completely shifted who ran our defensive front and secondary.

[badger]

I don't care that he's underage drinking and looking like an idiot about to burn his retina out with a live sparkler in his ****ing mouth since he's not one of our guys. What I find funny is the Aggie reaction. Texags has made a living for years looking down on the shenanigans of other programs, OU included. When it one of their own, they usually find excuses for why it is acceptable. Now they're arguing with each other whether something that clearly is stupid is acceptable.

[goingoneight]

This staff is not evaluating and developing talent on the defensive side of the ball. They could use an upgrade into a more physical offense if we're to be really picky... but the reason OU can't win it all right now is on the defensive side of the ball. Every loss I've seen this year was on the defense either not showing up or not sticking it out to the finish. You're not going to score at will all year long when you play elite competition. The defense has to be the foundation of a championship.
It doesn't even have to be an All-World 2001-kinda defense, either... just one that can stop, hold and pressure it's opposition into stalled drives. OU can't do it right now. They just can't... period. For a HC who is defense-minded, I expect it to get resolved somehow.

[OUNASH]

Once again I'm baffled by this statement. You guys say this **** just as he's completely shifted who ran our defensive front and secondary.

He wouldnt have made any changes had his brother not got fired at Arizona. Stoops is a creature of habit and it is going to bite him in the butt. My question is, will he run off Ship, Kittle, Bobby Jack and KIsh. These four guys arent cutting it and it is showing in recruiting and the way the players played in their respective positions. The answer is a big fat NO.
If he does make changes Ill be the first one on here to aplogize to you.

[wishbonesooner]

I wonder why we have to follow along with the rest of the Big 12? Do we have to run the spread? What's wrong with a more pro style? I know our D has to be prepared for league play, but this finesse BS is nowheresville.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

He wouldnt have made any changes had his brother not got fired at Arizona. Stoops is a creature of habit and it is going to bite him in the butt. My question is, will he run off Ship, Kittle, Bobby Jack and KIsh. These four guys arent cutting it and it is showing in recruiting and the way the players played in their respective positions. The answer is a big fat NO.
If he does make changes Ill be the first one on here to aplogize to you.

Okay I understand the Shipp/Kish hate, but what in the world is wrong with BJW? We have consistently had GREAT DEs since Stoops has been here.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I wonder why we have to follow along with the rest of the Big 12? Do we have to run the spread? What's wrong with a more pro style? I know our D has to be prepared for league play, but this finesse BS is nowheresville.

We've been through this before. In order to win the big 12 we are going to HAVE to score points. It is just too easy to have a defensive mismatch that gets exploited and you give up over 30. A pro-style offense (like for example our 2004 offense) is going to struggle to put points on the board. Think about these 2 games in 2004...

Oklahoma State W 38 - 35
Texas A&M W 42 - 35

Both of those games we scored above our season average and it took the fireworks of our 6th year senior to win them.

Yes, the pro-style offense will do us better in our bowl game, the problem is that if it does us better in the Alamo bowl are you going to be okay with it?

[cvsooner]

Okay I understand the Shipp/Kish hate, but what in the world is wrong with BJW? We have consistently had GREAT DEs since Stoops has been here.

Not sure I understand the Kish hate. It was his first year here, and poor LB play preceded him. Shipp...has whiffed a few lately. Kish hasn't even had time to get one of his/Mike Stoops' type players on campus.

[cleller]

The last few days I've been listening to Steve Davis, Al Jerkens, Pat Jones, etc on The Sports Animal, and I agree with most of what they've been saying: OU just is not a great team right now, not at the elite level.

The consensus there is that it will be up to Stoops to realize this, make changes, and try to rebuild. Recruiting another key problem. It may not happen quickly, either. Doesn't sound great.

A caller on the show today pointed out the first team to score 40 on Stoops was the USC debacle. Since then, 40 points have been scored on OU 15 times! 4 of the last five games OSU has scored over 40 points.

[FaninAma]

Yeah, where would KSU have been this year if they hadn't ran the spread all season.

[cvsooner]

KSU also got totally spanked by Baylor and Oregon, two teams with seriously good offenses.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The last few days I've been listening to Steve Davis, Al Jerkens, Pat Jones, etc on The Sports Animal, and I agree with most of what they've been saying: OU just is not a great team right now, not at the elite level.

The consensus there is that it will be up to Stoops to realize this, make changes, and try to rebuild. Recruiting another key problem. It may not happen quickly, either. Doesn't sound great.

A caller on the show today pointed out the first team to score 40 on Stoops was the USC debacle. Since then, 40 points have been scored on OU 15 times! 4 of the last five games OSU has scored over 40 points.

To sum up: Our defensive talent is lower than it was earlier in the decade.

[OUNASH]

Okay I understand the Shipp/Kish hate, but what in the world is wrong with BJW? We have consistently had GREAT DEs since Stoops has been here.

What talent has he brought in lately and our DE were avg at best this year. I just think he is to the point of retirement.

[OUNASH]

Not sure I understand the Kish hate. It was his first year here, and poor LB play preceded him. Shipp...has whiffed a few lately. Kish hasn't even had time to get one of his/Mike Stoops' type players on campus.

The D was a bust this year along with the LB. We regressed this year as a defense. ALotof people are saying let Mike and Kish bring in their own talent, problem is, it is simply not happening. The only true LB recruit we had just decommited and went to A&M. I see no value in Kish. He has been in football for alot of years and it took Mike to bring him to a program like Oklahoma.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

What talent has he brought in lately and our DE were avg at best this year. I just think he is to the point of retirement.

I guess I'm unsure of how you are judging them average. In terms of what we've had the last decade as well as what other teams have had, I consider them to be well above average. Are they going to make it in the NFL? No, they aren't specialists they are generalists. BJW has consistently replaced graduating players with younger clones with the same skillset. David King was no different than Auston English who was no different than Dan Cody.

In my judgement, the DEs were the only bright spot on the DL. I think their performance was hampered by a) King being moved inside because our DTs were so bad and the sheer amount of space they had to guard (basically from the center to the sideline) because of deficiencies at other positions. I mean come on, Ndulae was 8 tackles away from having more tackles than any linebacker on campus (his stats are just a little short of Beal's in 2008 - mainly in TFLs which this team has a huge issue with).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The D was a bust this year along with the LB. We regressed this year as a defense. ALotof people are saying let Mike and Kish bring in their own talent, problem is, it is simply not happening. The only true LB recruit we had just decommited and went to A&M. I see no value in Kish. He has been in football for alot of years and it took Mike to bring him to a program like Oklahoma.

I can agree with this. I do think that it will be relatively difficult for Kish to fail though. Linebacker has been the one position traditionally that OU has had in spades (RB being the other). If he can't manage to get one on campus next year (or out of the kids we have on campus) i'll be surprised. Heck, even blake had great linebackers.

[GDC]

I'm no expert, but over a period of several seasons when we keep getting tackled by the other guys, and we can't tackle them, I would suggest that our players are just not as good as the other teams' players.

[wishbonesooner]

I heard this on the radio today, and it has some merit. Since we arent going to use Millard enough to utilize his talents, why not move him to defense? Barry always put his best players on defense.