An observation on Bob Stoops , we may need to be more patient ..

[basel90]

We are all puzzled what to make of bob's losses in bowl games. It is irritating given we know he is an elite coach and has accumulated a great record of 0.81 . Many think he is in decline , but one interesting comparison with a legendary coach keeps popping up in my mind.
Am not sure we can equate bob with Tom Osborne of Nebraska, but I recall he had a rough 13 year patch during his coaching career which lasted more than 20 years . Looking at osborne's record from 1981 to 93, his bowl record was 3-10 . Some of those 10 losses were memorable defeats to Miami twice (23-3 and 22-0) , to FSU twice, Clemson, and of course big losses to OU and others. Meanwhile, he was winning 87% of his conference games. Does this sound familiar to stoops current record and flux?

I recall some Nebraska fans and the media during the late 80s and early 90s wondering if Osborne had lost his way and wont be able to compete with the elite teams. However we all know he eventually proved them all wrong and won 3 NCs and is considered One of the best coaches of all times.

We all are angry at some losses we had under bob, but someone who has won it all and won all these conference championships , including big wins against texas and other top teams (Alabama, Nebraska, tam, Oregon, FSU etc)
and has run a clean program , maybe we should be patient and am sure bob will figure out an optimal way to take OU to the top again .
Any thoughts.? Comments on this analogy ?

GO SOONERS

[Since71ASooner4Life]

Some good points made. I've never been one to criticize the coach as his record (4 NC game appearances) speaks for itself, but the thing I just cant rationalize is the over use of that stupid Belldozer play. How many times did we break the rhythm of a QB/offense that had just driven 75 years? Yea, we over used it enough that we got to fool Notre Dame one time when we passed from that formation, but overall it was crap against capable opponents. Great for the fans when you play a 2-10 team with no defense, but crap otherwise.

[basel90]

Agreed , many teams have figured out our offense, and we are too one dimensional.

[Midtowner]

I don't think Stoops controls what conference we're in, and I think that not being in the SEC has really hurt our recruiting.

He does a good job with the players he has. Far better than, say, Mack Brown, who is going to be completely useless without a stable of five-star talent. The good news is that we're going to be able to pile up Big XII championships under Stoops. The bad news is, absent some situation like we had in 2000 where players really outperformed their rankings, that's all we can expect.

[nBoSTP]

Osborne also had to sell his soul to the Devil to win those championships by recruiting and then not suspending Lawrence Phillips despite many opportunities to do so.

[LiveLaughLove]

I don't think Stoops controls what conference we're in, and I think that not being in the SEC has really hurt our recruiting.

He does a good job with the players he has. Far better than, say, Mack Brown, who is going to be completely useless without a stable of five-star talent. The good news is that we're going to be able to pile up Big XII championships under Stoops. The bad news is, absent some situation like we had in 2000 where players really outperformed their rankings, that's all we can expect.

Agree and disagree. Stoops did let it be known he was not for going to the SEC. Boren screwed the pooch by not going, especially for the sake of OSU.

Now after last night aTm will reap double benefits in recruiting. The only silver lining is it will hurt Texas also, but not a badly as us.

[TahoeSOONER]

Fair comparison to Osborne but his smash mouth style beats the **** out of our powder puff spread. Dont get me wrong, I like some explosive plays but I think all this throwing under 15 yards without stretching the field once in a while becomes predictable and combined with no running game becomes disaterous.

Stoops will be hungry to prove some fools wrong.

[SoonerorLater]

He might end up pulling off something like Osborne but as of right now if I had to compare him to another coach historically it would be somebody like Danny Ford the Clemson years. To me the evidence is crystal clear, the program has been trending down since after the USC beatdown. 2008 being the outlier where finished ranked #5 and that was with a boatload of NFL type talent. I don't see that type of talent on campus now.

[TUSooner]

****
Stoops will be hungry to prove some fools wrong.

I wish it were true. But so far he just keeps validating the view that OU is a team with better than average talent but NONE of whatever it takes to win when the spotlight is on and the going gets a little tough. Seems like we have plenty of "ballers," but not enough footballers.

[wishbonesooner]

Using conference championships and beating Texas is a terrible way to gauge success. The 12 is a watered down shell of a conference, and Texas is coached by an idiot.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Osborne also had to sell his soul to the Devil to win those championships by recruiting and then not suspending Lawrence Phillips despite many opportunities to do so.

that is a true statement!

[TUSooner]

Using conference championships and beating Texas is a terrible way to gauge success. The 12 is a watered down shell of a conference, and Texas is coached by an idiot.
This.

[OU_Sooners75]

Bob Stoops is not an elite coach any longer.

He is a good coach. But not elite.

What makes me say that?

Well, one thing that makes a head coach elite are the coaches on his staff that do the coaching little things. Another is how good he is able to evaluate his own coaches.

Apparently Bob Stoops feels he has coaches he knows he can trust and that are loyal to him. However, that doesn't make a great coaching staff.

Rght now, Bob has assembled a coaching staff that is worst than John Blakes staff.

He has one OL coach that coached junior high and high school for a total of 3 years before coming to OU. He has another OL coach that has struggled without the overwatchful eye of Kevin Wilson.

He has one DL coach that has fell out of the recruiting scene. And his ability to coach is now coming into question. He has another DL coach that should just retire and past players of his can't stand him.

Stoops has a strength and conditioning coach that is beyond his time. He refuses to acknowledge the science behind the S&C in todays athletics.

Stoops has a linebacker coacher that should never have been hired at OU. I was willing to give this coach a chance, but he cannnot recruit, and apparently coach at this level either.

He has promoted a OC that should have gone elsewhere to be groomed in different offensive styles and philosophies before getting the reigns at OU.

Then he rehires his brother tha apparently is lost. We saw a 4-0-7 defense more than once this year. We have just finished one of the worst seasons defensively ever at OU. I will give Mike another year because he hasn't had a chance to get the players he wants. But then again, he needs to get more than secondary recruits!

The only coaches I am happy with on this staff is Cale Gundy and Jay Norvell. I know me being happy means nothing in the grand scheme of things. However, if my lowly self can see the problems, surely a guy that gets paid $5 mill a year can see them?

And if not, he is not an elite coach! Elite executives are proactive and do not settle for complacency.

[Soonerjeepman]

Bob Stoops is not an elite coach any longer.

He is a good coach. But not elite.

What makes me say that?

Well, one thing that makes a head coach elite are the coaches on his staff that do the coaching little things. Another is how good he is able to evaluate his own coaches.

Apparently Bob Stoops feels he has coaches he knows he can trust and that are loyal to him. However, that doesn't make a great coaching staff.

Rght now, Bob has assembled a coaching staff that is worst than John Blakes staff.

He has one OL coach that coached junior high and high school for a total of 3 years before coming to OU. He has another OL coach that has struggled without the overwatchful eye of Kevin Wilson.

He has one DL coach that has fell out of the recruiting scene. And his ability to coach is now coming into question. He has another DL coach that should just retire and past players of his can't stand him.

Stoops has a strength and conditioning coach that is beyond his time. He refuses to acknowledge the science behind the S&C in todays athletics.

Stoops has a linebacker coacher that should never have been hired at OU. I was willing to give this coach a chance, but he cannnot recruit, and apparently coach at this level either.

He has promoted a OC that should have gone elsewhere to be groomed in different offensive styles and philosophies before getting the reigns at OU.

Then he rehires his brother tha apparently is lost. We saw a 4-0-7 defense more than once this year. We have just finished one of the worst seasons defensively ever at OU. I will give Mike another year because he hasn't had a chance to get the players he wants. But then again, he needs to get more than secondary recruits!

The only coaches I am happy with on this staff is Cale Gundy and Jay Norvell. I know me being happy means nothing in the grand scheme of things. However, if my lowly self can see the problems, surely a guy that gets paid $5 mill a year can see them?

And if not, he is not an elite coach! Elite executives are proactive and do not settle for complacency.

THIS exactly...great post

[TrueBornSooner]

What I don't like about Bob these days is that he just goes by the numbers. When he started it was about having fun. Now it's line your best against our best and we will win 80% of the time. He doesn't seem to make adjustments - just keep doing the same things since that's what we are good at. Remember the fakes? The trick plays? Gone.

[soonercastor]

we may need to be more patient ..

http://static.mrsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/still-waiting-skeleton.jpg

[basel90]

Great observation , but scary if bob is so aloof and oblivious

[TitoMorelli]

http://static.mrsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/still-waiting-skeleton.jpg

lol - isn't that the poke hide-and-seek champion from 1950?

[Soonerus]

Stoops is fine, you guys are dumb....

[Curly Bill]

Bob Stoops is not an elite coach any longer.

He is a good coach. But not elite.

What makes me say that?

Well, one thing that makes a head coach elite are the coaches on his staff that do the coaching little things. Another is how good he is able to evaluate his own coaches.

Apparently Bob Stoops feels he has coaches he knows he can trust and that are loyal to him. However, that doesn't make a great coaching staff.

Rght now, Bob has assembled a coaching staff that is worst than John Blakes staff.

He has one OL coach that coached junior high and high school for a total of 3 years before coming to OU. He has another OL coach that has struggled without the overwatchful eye of Kevin Wilson.

He has one DL coach that has fell out of the recruiting scene. And his ability to coach is now coming into question. He has another DL coach that should just retire and past players of his can't stand him.

Stoops has a strength and conditioning coach that is beyond his time. He refuses to acknowledge the science behind the S&C in todays athletics.

Stoops has a linebacker coacher that should never have been hired at OU. I was willing to give this coach a chance, but he cannnot recruit, and apparently coach at this level either.

He has promoted a OC that should have gone elsewhere to be groomed in different offensive styles and philosophies before getting the reigns at OU.

Then he rehires his brother tha apparently is lost. We saw a 4-0-7 defense more than once this year. We have just finished one of the worst seasons defensively ever at OU. I will give Mike another year because he hasn't had a chance to get the players he wants. But then again, he needs to get more than secondary recruits!

The only coaches I am happy with on this staff is Cale Gundy and Jay Norvell. I know me being happy means nothing in the grand scheme of things. However, if my lowly self can see the problems, surely a guy that gets paid $5 mill a year can see them?

And if not, he is not an elite coach! Elite executives are proactive and do not settle for complacency.

You just kinda accidently hit the nail on the head: Bob is making $5,000,000 a year - to his eyes where's the problem?

[OU_Sooners75]

Stoops is fine, you guys are dumb....

Say the guy that has at least 3 thread about being embarrassed.

Bob is fine, but his coaches aren't!

[Plexis22]

Stoops could be like Osborne or Switzer with another good run left in him. Or he could be like Phil Fulmer at Tennessee. Unless OU starts having losing seasons his job is safe. The OU admin. will rest on it laurels as usual and fans will just have to keep waiting.

[misplaced_sooner]

I don't think Stoops controls what conference we're in, and I think that not being in the SEC has really hurt our recruiting.

He does a good job with the players he has. Far better than, say, Mack Brown, who is going to be completely useless without a stable of five-star talent. The good news is that we're going to be able to pile up Big XII championships under Stoops. The bad news is, absent some situation like we had in 2000 where players really outperformed their rankings, that's all we can expect.

How does not being in the SEC hurt OUr recruiting, but Texas seems to keep landing 5 star recruits? Why do we have so many JCO transfers? This staff is lazy and our bowl performances are hurting our recruiting, not our conference. Getting hammered everytime we don't play UCONN/Stanford(weak team at that time) is why we can't recruit. Who wants to play for a team that obviously has some cancer regarding bowl games.

[basel90]

Why is stoops keeping kittle OL coach, and Jackie shipping.. Obviously kittle has no clue

[OkieThunderLion]

Why is stoops keeping kittle OL coach, and Jackie shipping.. Obviously kittle has no clue

The offensive tackles were one of the strongest positions on the team.

Kittle needs to lock up some more recruits but can't complain at all about his on-field results.

[okiewaker]

Bob has done a good job overall,,but being an ELITE head coach means properly assembling an ELITE staff of coaches. I think that is where he has fallen short,,IMO

Also, great players/leaders make those around them better,,,,maybe bob is not a very good leader,, maybe he's not inspiring his coaches to be great,,idk. Complacency seems to fit.

[SicEmBaylor]

It's true there are going to be lean years. It's also true that most schools would do virtually anything to get a 10-win season. Hell, last season for us was the greatest in Baylor football history (with one possible exception).

However, the fact remains that regardless of OU's final record, there is absolutely no excuse for slow players being outrun by their opponents, ****ty tackling that cost points time and time again, game planning that is very lacking, uninspired play, and a seemingly complacent and overly-conservative coaching staff. Those problems would be problems whether the final record was 10 wins or 1 win.

They're problems that need to be fixed because there is no excuse on this God's green earth for OU having those problems season after season.

[Plexis22]

They're problems that need to be fixed because there is no excuse on this God's green earth for OU having those problems season after season.

Agree. OU has a lot of built-in advantages. The fact that we're still seeing these bowl meltdowns year after year since the mid 2000's is unreal, and very troubling. I don't see anything pointing toward a turnaround but it can take one player like Manziel at A&M, or Peyton Manning for the Broncos..

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Bob Stoops kept Brent Venables about 4 years too long. Brent Venables couldn't recruit worth crap and it has showed up badly the past two seasons.

[basel90]

The offensive tackles were one of the strongest positions on the team.

Kittle needs to lock up some more recruits but can't complain at all about his on-field results.

How come we cannot run if OL is great ?

[SoonerKnight]

How come we cannot run if OL is great ?

Pass first offense!

[OkieThunderLion]

How come we cannot run if OL is great ?
OU tied their highest YPC of the Stoops era this year. With the '04 team.

The OL isn't great, but good. G/C/G is pretty mediocre. The tackle play is outstanding.

[Midtowner]

Our offense is mostly outstanding.

Defense?

I dunno. Perhaps we have to grow back into Mike Stoops' system? Also, there's a huge lack of talent there.

[EatLeadCommie]

Dr. Tom was also chasing his first championship late into his career, so there was some hunger there and not the complacency that seems to be with Stoops.

We do need to give Mike a few years to get a decent defensive line together. Almost all of our defensive problems can be attributed to that this year. The secondary, except for Hurst, was mostly solid and adapted very well to the new system. Our LBs were not good, but they seemed to be playing DB most of the time, which doesn't really work when you have such a porous D line.

Our problems against aTm were very predictable going into the game. We had a bad matchup problem with them for the first time in 15 years. You can't give a running QB all day to throw, because that means he is going to have a lot of room to run when the WRs are all covered 30 yards downfield. With a decent line, we probably have about 5-6 coverage sacks in the first half alone against a non-mobile QB. Against Manziel, we would've at least been able to get pressure on him, which would have made it easier to snag him on a blitz or at least contain him. Our D was gassed and gave up by the 3rd quarter.

[BillyBall]

the program has been trending down since after the USC beatdown.

I don't recall that game.

[birddog]

Hurts big time losing Mastrogiovanni to the aggies. Looks like recruits are starting to be impatient now

[BigJerm7]

Some good points made. I've never been one to criticize the coach as his record (4 NC game appearances) speaks for itself, but the thing I just cant rationalize is the over use of that stupid Belldozer play. How many times did we break the rhythm of a QB/offense that had just driven 75 years? Yea, we over used it enough that we got to fool Notre Dame one time when we passed from that formation, but overall it was crap against capable opponents. Great for the fans when you play a 2-10 team with no defense, but crap otherwise.

I brought this up months ago and was flamed. The only team in the country that brings in their backup QB to get 1 yard. Especially after your RB just drove 7 yards to the 1.

[OkieThunderLion]

I brought this up months ago and was flamed. The only team in the country that brings in their backup QB to get 1 yard. Especially after your RB just drove 7 yards to the 1.

Lot's of teams have short-yardage specialists. It's been going on forever.

[Midtowner]

How does not being in the SEC hurt OUr recruiting, but Texas seems to keep landing 5 star recruits? Why do we have so many JCO transfers? This staff is lazy and our bowl performances are hurting our recruiting, not our conference. Getting hammered everytime we don't play UCONN/Stanford(weak team at that time) is why we can't recruit. Who wants to play for a team that obviously has some cancer regarding bowl games.

Texas is Texas. They have money and prestige and for years have been THE university in a really big state. Oklahoma, on the other hand has to steal recruits from Texas' back yard and everyone else's. Put Stoops at Texas (that's a scary thought) and he'll be hauling in the 5* recruits just like Mack. It could be that current 5* recruits are looking at OU and seeing how our recent track record with those kind of talents is pretty disappointing.

As far as the staff comment, I kind of think Stoops himself is to blame for a lot of this. I mean we just got "out coached" by a coach who was actually on the staff when we were making that same excuse before.