Can someone explain to me why we now have less talent than we did in '99?

[hvhurricane]

Someone is not doing their jobs to their fullest extent.

[OkieThunderLion]

We don't have less talent. We have more.

But we had a huge schematic advantage in the early Stoops years. That is completely gone.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We are recruiting more poorly each passing year. These games where we look like a high school team have put a big hurt on recruiting, I'm afraid.

[SOONER44EVER]

We have more talent.................we just play like we have less talent.

[OkieThunderLion]

We have more talent.................we just play like we have less talent.

Correct.

We'll put significantly more guys in the NFL than what we did with the '99-'00 teams.

[SOONER44EVER]

Correct. We have less talent at the coaching positions.............head coach included.

[NormanPride]

On offense, sure we had a schematic advantage. Defense, however, was all effort and heart. Concentration and willingness to play through pain.

God love him, I was really disappointed with Jefferson when he gave up on that second touchdown. He had gotten dinged up in the Olay before and I guess just didn't think the effort was worth the pain. I can understand the reasoning, but it doesn't mean I like it.

[sooneron]

On offense, sure we had a schematic advantage. Defense, however, was all effort and heart. Concentration and willingness to play through pain.

God love him, I was really disappointed with Jefferson when he gave up on that second touchdown. He had gotten dinged up in the Olay before and I guess just didn't think the effort was worth the pain. I can understand the reasoning, but it doesn't mean I like it.

Gave up? I would say that he couldn't make the play. That was ****ing obvious. His mistake was not going down after the previous play to stall the drive while we got someone healthy into his spot. Willingness to play through pain? Seriously? You have no idea what his pain was.

[OUmillenium]

More athletic players doesnt mean better players. I think our coaches are missing on local talent who understand the game.

[canes4ever]

The Big 12 is less attractive to HS recruits right now. I see high rated recruits across the country decommit every day. The SEC is popular. HS prospects are planning NFL careers and want all the tv, print a powerhouse can provide. Your QB is one dimensional in a two dimensional world ie Johnny Football, RGIII, etc. In your case alot of the problem is in the recruiting. OU will be back stronger.

[jkjsooner]

The Big 12 is less attractive to HS recruits right now. I see high rated recruits across the country decommit every day. The SEC is popular. HS prospects are planning NFL careers and want all the tv, print a powerhouse can provide. Your QB is one dimensional in a two dimensional world ie Johnny Football, RGIII, etc. In your case alot of the problem is in the recruiting. OU will be back stronger.

Wake me up when those two dimensional QBs win a Super Bowl. Last I checked it's always a Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Roethlisberger.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have an RG3 but at the highest level the most successful are still traditional QBs.

[JLEW1818]

The Big 12 is less attractive to HS recruits right now. I see high rated recruits across the country decommit every day. The SEC is popular. HS prospects are planning NFL careers and want all the tv, print a powerhouse can provide. Your QB is one dimensional in a two dimensional world ie Johnny Football, RGIII, etc. In your case alot of the problem is in the recruiting. OU will be back stronger.

Wake me up when those two dimensional QBs win a Super Bowl. Last I checked it's always a Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Roethlisberger.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have an RG3 but at the highest level the most successful are still traditional QBs.

Landry compared to those guys? Lol

[SoonerLaw09]

It was blindingly obvious that we gave up on D in the second half. By the time aggy scored their first TD in the 2nd half, the D had had it chasing after Manziel. They were mentally beat. So were the coaches. Sometimes, when the fight is lost, ya just throw in the towel.

I do wonder why we couldn't gameplan better when we had a whole season of film on them and a month to get ready. I dunno, maybe Manziel (I refuse to call him that other nickname) is just that good. We'll see next season if he's a flash in the pan or not. I'll say this much though. We have not been able to effectively handle a run-pass QB in many years. Since the 80s, maybe.

And don't forget, this isn't the first time we had no answer for a guy. I'm not even talking about RGIII or Tebow. I'm talking about Peter Gardere.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Stoops has caught MBS.

Mack Brown Syndrome. It is incurable, I noticed him clapping last night.

[agoo758]

Wake me up when those two dimensional QBs win a Super Bowl. Last I checked it's always a Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Roethlisberger.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have an RG3 but at the highest level the most successful are still traditional QBs.

Aaron Rogers is definitely not a one dimensional qb, and the best in the NFL is beginning to move from immoble pocket passers, to pocket passers who can run when need be (RG3, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, etc.)

[Mac94]

We don't have less talent. We have more.

But we had a huge schematic advantage in the early Stoops years. That is completely gone.

Agree that there is more talent ... disagree on the scheme. Whats missing is a fire ... attitude ... chip on the sholders that those early Stoops teams played with.

[MI Sooner]

On offense, sure we had a schematic advantage. Defense, however, was all effort and heart. Concentration and willingness to play through pain.

God love him, I was really disappointed with Jefferson when he gave up on that second touchdown. He had gotten dinged up in the Olay before and I guess just didn't think the effort was worth the pain. I can understand the reasoning, but it doesn't mean I like it.

I was really disappointed our retarded coaches let the guy who had been spying the opposing QB stay in the game when he couldn't run.

[Sabanball]

I also think a bit of the problem is recruiting. More and more schools are now going into Texas and poaching players. The talent pie is now being divided up into smaller and smaller pieces. Stoops needs to recruit more nationally than he is. JMO

[CatfishSooner]

I also think a bit of the problem is recruiting. More and more schools are now going into Texas and poaching players. The talent pie is now being divided up into smaller and smaller pieces. Stoops needs to recruit more nationally than he is. JMO

He already is...go back to you ****in bama board jack ***

[SoonerMachine]

Agree that there is more talent ... disagree on the scheme. Whats missing is a fire ... attitude ... chip on the sholders that those early Stoops teams played with.

Agreed, from the head coach to the 3rd string...

[HToady]

it seems that Stoops is not recruiting Texas well. Not as many of the big name Texas players have OU on their radar.

He needs to ask Barry how it's done.

[OU_Sooners75]

There is a lot more talent on the current roster than in 99.

The biggest problem is the coaching staff from top to bottom is perhaps the worst staff since Gomer Jones.

You can have all the talent you want, but when the coaching sucks, it effects the results.

Juswt be glad our coaching staff is better than the one in Asstin, TX.

[cleller]

Wake me up when those two dimensional QBs win a Super Bowl. Last I checked it's always a Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Roethlisberger.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have an RG3 but at the highest level the most successful are still traditional QBs.

Yeah, but I hate the NFL for the most part. I just want the Sooners to win, however we can. JC Watts and Jamelle Holieway were NFL types either.

I don't know about 1999, but if you move up to 2000, I think those guys just flat played better, whether more talented or not. As mentioned, we've lost a bunch of extremely good position coaches since then.

[Indy Sooner]

We have less talent at the coaching positions.............head coach included.

Bingo.

[Soonerjeepman]

We may have more talent that our 99/00 team...BUT the opposition has better talent. I also agree, most of our position coaches have gone on to HC jobs, so they obviously have talent there.

I just think OU is in a lull...who knows. I'll still cheer, not much more I can do than that.

[picasso]

I get what the OP is saying but this team was and did better than the '99 squad. Just sayin'.

[OkieThunderLion]

We may have more talent that our 99/00 team...BUT the opposition has better talent. I also agree, most of our position coaches have gone on to HC jobs, so they obviously have talent there.

I just think OU is in a lull...who knows. I'll still cheer, not much more I can do than that.
Goes back to schematic advantage.

[Soonerjeepman]

Goes back to schematic advantage.

as in we were running a "new offense" to college football then...therefor we had an adv..right? now it seems everyone runs something similar or even has up'd the anty by having a dual threat qb.

[cleller]

as in we were running a "new offense" to college football then...therefor we had an adv..right? now it seems everyone runs something similar or even has up'd the anty by having a dual threat qb.

Maybe for next year we can get another "new offense". Don't care what, as long as its the kind that score more points than your opponent.

[Piware]

The 99/00 team played with more passion. After coming off the Gibbs/Blake/Smellyburger era (aka The Triumvirate of Doom), those guys wanted to win regardless of the pain and adversity. Does anyone else remember Rocky Calmus playing with a broken leg?

We have had flashes of it with players like Gerald McCoy, Lane Johnson, Frank Alexander, etc., but just not a team loaded with them. Gotta get the mojo back. We are, after all, Oklahoma. IF ND, A&M, Alabama can do it, so we can too.

[Plexis22]

We have become Nebraska. Decent team each year with tons of fan support, but can't compete with the big boys. We rest too much on our storied past, which current recruits could give two s*** about.

[cleller]

Momentum waves are funny. In 1999, it couldn't get much bigger. We rode it for a good while, but the last couple years seems like its dropped.

ATM's current situation seems alot like ours in '99. Hot coach, dynamic QB, hang on.

Boone bought a wave going with the stepkids. Though it would die down more than it has this year.

[goingoneight]

All those who laughed at A&M for their SEC move are starting to see the effects on their recruiting. High school stars don't want to go play throwball in the BIG 12. Especially not guys like we need in the defensive line and linebacker. It's very telling when a program like OU has to turn to junior college prospects on the DL. Sometimes, JC guys work out... but it doesn't mean it's not still a move of desperation.

[SoonerOX]

Overall, I don't see that much of a talent drop-off compared to Bob's early teams. I really think that the issue is in the coaching department. It's almost as if the staff has run out of ideas. I believe that coaching football is a lot like other endeavors: if you stop innovating, you don't get further and likely fall into decline.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

We have a lot more talent on offense, but WTF are you smoking about talent on defense?

What linebacker do we have on defense that even belongs in the same divisional level of college football as Rocky Calmus or Torrance Marshall?
Our safeties are poorer versions of our safeties in 2000 (TGRW > Jefferson && Thatcher > Harris)
We don't have a single DT who can stuff the middle like Ryan Fisher could.
DEs, Corners are about the same and play like it.

Whether you like it or not, college football is about linebacker play. Ours are just bad.

[Soonerjeepman]

High school stars don't want to go play throwball in the BIG 12.

they picked up another WR from the Army all-star game today. Plus the announcers said they have 3 WR that have committed to them switching their commitments...I believe they all were in either the Army or UA all star games. Just sayin.

[OkieThunderLion]

as in we were running a "new offense" to college football then...therefor we had an adv..right? now it seems everyone runs something similar or even has up'd the anty by having a dual threat qb.

Defensively, also. That zone scheme Stoops brought bottled up the run game and confused the hell out of college passing games, at that time.

You saw the same thing in the Switzer Era. Wishbone took the country by storm, but eventually got stale.

Got to keep evolving. Perhaps too much coaching "inbreeding" at OU.

[OkieThunderLion]

We have a lot more talent on offense, but WTF are you smoking about talent on defense?

What linebacker do we have on defense that even belongs in the same divisional level of college football as Rocky Calmus or Torrance Marshall?
Our safeties are poorer versions of our safeties in 2000 (TGRW > Jefferson && Thatcher > Harris)
We don't have a single DT who can stuff the middle like Ryan Fisher could.
DEs, Corners are about the same and play like it.

Whether you like it or not, college football is about linebacker play. Ours are just bad.

Ryan is a good dude, but he wouldn't have had his name called once last night.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ryan is a good dude, but he wouldn't have had his name called once last night.

Ryan's role, which he was really good at, was to hold a 6 feet by 1 foot rectangle of dirt centered on the ball. What this allowed you to do was secure the cutback lane when you flowed to the ball. Current college offensive philosophy is to ride the defense one direction and capitalize on the one on one matchup left on the cutback side. The problem our current DTs have is that not only are they ridden left or right, but they are also driven BACK. That was something that our 1999-2000 crop of DTs were very good at preventing.

[GDC]

Are linebackers those guys that play just behind the defensive line? Watching OU the last couple of years, I've kind of forgotten what they look like.

[TitoMorelli]

I'm less qualified than most of you on the subject, but thought I'd share my thoughts on the state of the program - not taking personal shots at any player or group of players, but just some general observations--

Best skill players in the world aren't enough without a decent line to provide blocking and pass protection. Seems we've been jinxed in that area, especially since 1999.

When I watched A&M play 'Bama this fall, I was amazed at how well the Aggie O-line kept Tide defenders from reaching Manziel. So when they announced the Cotton Bowl pairing, I felt sick for reasons other than just the whole BCS fiasco.

And for all his glory as a Sooner, I question whether Bosworth would have been so successful early on, had Casillas not been up front to create all kinds of hell with opposing blockers.

Until we can recruit, equip, and keep healthy the kind of guys in the trenches that a top-notch program should have, we won't be a top-notch program. And those players are becoming tougher and tougher to find and recruit, especially on defense.