If The GOP in the HoR Supports The Senate Plan They are Finished

[FaninAma]

If the GOP supports tax increases without spending cuts there will be a deep irreversible schism in the party and the fiscal conservatives will leave them. That is my New Year's resolution. I don't care if the country wonders in the wilderness for a while if it helps bring the problems to a head so we can get somebody elected who will actually address the real problems.

of course as badly as the progressives are ****ing up the country we may end up with a dictator when the economic crisis actually hits.

[Turd_Ferguson]

A country boy can survive...

[badger]

I think that they are going to revise it and send it back to the Senate. Unlike senators who get 6 years to fudge things around before returning to voters for their day of reckoning, representatives only have two years to please their constituents before they have to be threatened with the possibility of getting voted out.

I think the arrogance of senators from their sense of being more elite with their 100-strong, 6-year terms, compared with the little minion hundreds of reps and their piddly squat 2-year-terms... I think that also means that the House doesn't pass the Senate's deal as-is.

[rock on sooner]

It's too bad that we can't just press a button or throw a switch
and throw out all 535 bums and start over. In all my years I've
never seen a more worthless group than this Congress!

[Sooner5030]

FORWARD.....




..to default

[badger]

FORWARD.....




..to default

Other countries are on the brink of default as well. Is it really a default if everyone does it?

[bluedogok]

If the GOP supports tax increases without spending cuts there will be a deep irreversible schism in the party and the fiscal conservatives will leave them. That is my New Year's resolution. I don't care if the country wonders in the wilderness for a while if it helps bring the problems to a head so we can get somebody elected who will actually address the real problems.

of course as badly as the progressives are ****ing up the country we may end up with a dictator when the economic crisis actually hits.
There already is a big schism in the party between those that wish to control what others do and fiscal conservatives but there are no viable options at this time. I see no real difference between the parties other than rhetoric and who they are beholden to. Who are fiscal conservatives going to vote for, certainly not Democrats and the Libertarian party isn't viable yet.

The fact that the vote comes after the 1st was presented as the best scenario by the local partisan talking heads last night. If Congress does nothing, then massive increases and program cuts are enacted, if they vote for a compromise measure then the Republicans actually voted for a tax cut even if there is increased spending. When the election cycle comes up in two years most of the electorate will have forgotten the circumstances and the "tax cut" angle will be the only one talked about....but then all that won't really matter as long as the majority people are voting for their own benefits.

[bluedogok]

Other countries are on the brink of default as well. Is it really a default if everyone does it?
Keynes never figured out what happens when money no longer has matters and everything is inflated beyond realistic value.

[cleller]

Keynes never figured out what happens when money no longer has matters and everything is inflated beyond realistic value.

The only fix would be another World War.

[Sooner5030]

Other countries are on the brink of default as well. Is it really a default if everyone does it?

To be fair we would get to see about 5 countries go through it first.....gives us a chance to pick the best way to get through it.

1. Argentina
2. Japan
3. Greece
4. Italy
5. Spain

[FaninAma]

Keynes should be relegated to the same history garbage bin as Marx and Engels.

[FaninAma]

To be fair we would get to see about 5 countries go through it first.....gives us a chance to pick the best way to get through it.

1. Argentina
2. Japan
3. Greece
4. Italy
5. Spain

i think Japan will be the first. They are in horrible shape. The only thing that will save them is if they are deemed to vital to fail and the other central banks come in and temporarily stave off bankruptcy.

[Sooner5030]

i think Japan will be the first. They are in horrible shape. The only thing that will save them is if they are deemed to vital to fail and the other central banks come in and temporarily stave off bankruptcy.

I'm betting on Argentina.....no one will help them and they've been through it before.

We should start a pool though.

[FaninAma]

There already is a big schism in the party between those that wish to control what others do and fiscal conservatives but there are no viable options at this time. I see no real difference between the parties other than rheoric and who they are beholden to. Who are fiscal conservatives going to vote for, certainly not Democrats and the Libertarian party isn't viable yet.

The fact that the vote comes after the 1st was presented as the best scenario by the local partisan talking heads last night. If Congress does nothing, then massive increases and program cuts are enacted, if they vote for a compromise measure then the Republicans actually voted for a tax cut even if there is increased spending. When the election cycle comes up in two years most of the electorate will have forgotten the circumstances and the "tax cut" angle will be the only one talked about....but then all that won't really matter as long as the majority people are voting for their own benefits.
Just watch. The conservative media is already throwing knives at the GOP leadership. Check out Drudge,, Breitbart.com and others. The GOP leadership is playing with fire with an agreement that results in $47 in tax increases for every $1 in spending cuts.

[FaninAma]

I'm betting on Argentina.....no one will help them and they've been through it before.

We should start a pool though.

You are probably correct since South American economies aren't considered important to the central bankers who decide who to save and who to let fail.

[LiveLaughLove]

It's too bad that we can't just press a button or throw a switch
and throw out all 535 bums and start over. In all my years I've
never seen a more worthless group than this Congress!

You mean 537 don't you? Dear Leader and Drooling Idiot aren't exempt.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I don't think the house is finished if they pass it. House members are elected by voters within their own district. Those who would clearly suffer the wrath of the voters will vote no.

[Turd_Ferguson]

...and they voted themselves a raise...buncha plonkers.

[rock on sooner]

No, not really, LLL...those two don't write legislation. My beef is with
Congress...if they would do the right things to fix what ails us, the
Administration would be non sequitur..

[bluedogok]

Just watch. The conservative media is already throwing knives at the GOP leadership. Check out Drudge,, Breitbart.com and others. The GOP leadership is playing with fire with an agreement that results in $47 in tax increases for every $1 in spending cuts.
Which could lead to a much bigger win than the last election for those who vote for themselves above country.

[FaninAma]

Which could lead to a much bigger win than the last election for those who vote for themselves above country.

i don't care. Lets just get to the end of the road as soon as possible. It is obvious that the idiots who support the progressives are too stupid to see what is going on in Europe and Japan.

BTW, even Dr. Coburn sold out and voted for the sell-out agreement.

[FaninAma]

I don't think the house is finished if they pass it. House members are elected by voters within their own district. Those who would clearly suffer the wrath of the voters will vote no.
With all due respect, you are clueless. Its not the general election the GOP reps have to worry about. It is the primaries. Any GOP rep who votes for this garbage will face a primary challenge.

BTW, do you think it is a great deal that results in virtually no spending cuts?

[LiveLaughLove]

No, not really, LLL...those two don't write legislation. My beef is with
Congress...if they would do the right things to fix what ails us, the
Administration would be non sequitur..

Maybe you missed it but the House wrote a bill and passed it.

The Senate and WH have done nothing with that written and passed bill. Next?

[bluedogok]

Spending cuts aren't going to happen as long as they control the Senate and White House but really both parties are guilty of only wanting the others pet programs to get cut and their pets to get more when the truth is EVERYTHING needs to be drastically cut, even the sacred defense budget.

Ignorance of reality is bliss....Washington DC really is the land of suspended logic.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Keynes should be relegated to the same history garbage bin as Marx and Engels.Only the socialists revere him. (Yes, those people that control the government, public schools, entertainment industry and mainstream media).

[pphilfran]

...and they voted themselves a raise...buncha plonkers.

I think the congressional raise was eliminated in this new legislation..one thing they did right...also, I don't think they voted themselves the raise...Obama gave it to them...

[LiveLaughLove]

I think the congressional raise was eliminated in this new legislation..one thing they did right...also, I don't think they voted themselves the raise...Obama gave it to them...

Yeah, I was curious how the President did that, since spending isn't his purview.

[SoonerorLater]

Only the socialists revere him. (Yes, those people that control the government, public schools, entertainment industry and mainstream media).

Actually Keynes never envisioned anything like what we are seeing now. (not that his policies then or now are correct) His fight was against the deflation boogeyman. What he did do was get the government foot in the door as the primary economic architects along with their Fed henchmen. Progressive/Socialist incrementalism has taken us to the sorry state we are in today.

[soonercruiser]

My guess is that it will barely pass.
(If it doesn't pass, the vote will be bipartisan against!)

And, then the Repugs should hold a news conference to warn Obammaer and the Dems that nothing more will pass Congress (including the debt ceiling) without those 10:1 proportional cuts they have been talking about during the election!

[soonercruiser]

Only the socialists revere him. (Yes, those people that control the government, public schools, entertainment industry and mainstream media).

Will Obummer write a "Little Black Book" during his second term?
Oh! Wait! That was Clinton!
:surprise:

[soonercruiser]

I think the congressional raise was eliminated in this new legislation..one thing they did right...also, I don't think they voted themselves the raise...Obama gave it to them...

Phil,
I saw an outline of the Senate Bill on Fox's web site this morning, and nothing was mentioned about the Congressional raises.
Too bad if they aren't reversed.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Actually Keynes never envisioned anything like what we are seeing now. (not that his policies then or now are correct) His fight was against the deflation boogeyman. What he did do was get the government foot in the door as the primary economic architects along with their Fed henchmen. Progressive/Socialist incrementalism has taken us to the sorry state we are in today.if Keynes wasn't a Statist, he should never have espoused going down the road of government as "economic architect". IOW, his intentions appear dishonorable from the gitgo.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Will Obummer write a "Little Black Book" during his second term?
Oh! Wait! That was Clinton!
:surprise:Sir lady hillry is waiting in the wings, for der schlickmeister to rise again from the ashes, and be puppetmaster to the stars. If our Obear doesn't retain power after 2016, El Stainmaster will again be directing the flow of goods and services, and peoples.

[pphilfran]

Phil,
I saw an outline of the Sentae Bill on Fox's web site this morning, and nothing was mentioned about the Congressional raises.
Too bad if they aren't reversed.

I read it here...not sure if accurate...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/01/fiscal-cliff-deal-_n_2392533.html

WASHINGTON -- Legislation to prevent the government from going over the so-called fiscal cliff will also block a $900 automatic pay hike for members of Congress.

It's one more reason for lawmakers to vote for the measure extending Bush-era tax cuts on individual income up to $450,000 while increasing rates for earnings above that threshold.

Under a 1989 law, lawmakers are supposed to receive automatic cost-of-living pay hikes, but as Congress' approval ratings have fallen, lawmakers have routinely voted to reject the raise.

Lawmakers make $174,000 a year. They had already voted in September to block the pay raise through March 27, but President Barack Obama recently issued an executive order to implement it, along with a pay increase for federal workers.

[soonercruiser]

Phil,
Read your last sentence or two.
So, if Obummer wrote an executive order, that's what we are dealing with now. And, Congress would have to vote on a bill to again stop the raises.
There is nothing in that article that says they have that reversal in the Senate Bill.

[LiveLaughLove]

So was Obama looking to save the country or looking for a political victory? Sounds like the latter.


“Keep in mind that just last month Republicans in Congress said they would never agree to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans,” Obama said. “Obviously the agreement that’s currently being discussed would raise those rates and raise them permanently.”


A White House source told Fox News’s Ed Henry overnight that “Obama broke [the Republicans'] tax pledge,” making the Joe Biden-negotiated deal “[one] of the most consequential policy achievements of the last couple decades.”

A “senior official” told BuzzFeed Monday that the deal was “a sea change,” which shows that Republicans will bend to demands for higher taxes in the future.

“It will inevitably make it easier to get [Republicans] on board whenever we ask for new revenues,” the official told BuzzFeed, “because they’ve already crossed that threshold.”

Similarly, a “West Wing advisor” told Politico that getting Republicans to walkaway from their tax commitment was a “big win.”

Nothing about being good for the country? Just gloat. Good jorb Obama, you rock.

Now what? Oh yeah, more spending since we have all of this new fundage.

[StoopTroup]

Does it matter? I mean....He's not only the first Black POTUS...he got elected to two terms now. It will be a part of America's History forever.

I think the GOP are playing into his hands like a bunch of pissed off Slave Owners who move to the Cayman Islands between Elections.

[FaninAma]

Does it matter? I mean....He's not only the first Black POTUS...he got elected to two terms now. It will be a part of America's History forever.

I think the GOP are playing into his hands like a bunch of pissed off Slave Owners who move to the Cayman Islands between Elections.

You're right. They should take us off the cliff and take Obama over kicking and screaming.

[soonercruiser]

Does it matter? I mean....He's not only the first Black POTUS...he got elected to two terms now. It will be a part of America's History forever.

I think the GOP are playing into his hands like a bunch of pissed off Slave Owners who move to the Cayman Islands between Elections.

An administration "that will live in infamy"!

[LiveLaughLove]

Does it matter? I mean....He's not only the first Black POTUS...he got elected to two terms now. It will be a part of America's History forever.

I think the GOP are playing into his hands like a bunch of pissed off Slave Owners who move to the Cayman Islands between Elections.

No, it doesn't matter. I don't give a rip about symbolism. i care about the country and the harm he is doing to this country.

The slave owner BS is just you lib's vision of things. I don't see him as a black man. He's just a man to me, well, a punk actually.

He's the kind of smart a$$ that needs his clock cleaned. But being black has zilch to do with anything at all.

It's strictly his politics and his personality that I greatly dislike.

[StoopTroup]

It's strictly his politics and his personality that I greatly dislike.

I liked the way you finished....Probably should have started and ended with that statement. You'd get more folks believing what you said.

[okie52]

Does it matter? I mean....He's not only the first Black POTUS...he got elected to two terms now. It will be a part of America's History forever.

I think the GOP are playing into his hands like a bunch of pissed off Slave Owners who move to the Cayman Islands between Elections.

Only racists would oppose any of obama's policies.

[LiveLaughLove]

I liked the way you finished....Probably should have started and ended with that statement. You'd get more folks believing what you said.

The day I'm ever concerned about if a liberal believes me or not, would be the day after never.

[StoopTroup]

Liberal...?

Dude....if you ever met a real Liberal...you'd explode.

[FaninAma]

ST, why do you hate my and other people's kids? Why do you want them to pay for all the deficits ran up mostly on progressive entitlement programs so you and your fellow progressives can make yourselves feel like you are being generous? Easy to be generous with other people's money.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives are looking to add an amendment to the Senate-passed "fiscal cliff" legislation that would cut spending by $330 billion, Republican Representative Darrell Issa said on Tuesday.

Republicans are now weighing whether they will be able to get enough votes to pass such an amendment. If not, they will hold an up-or-down vote on the Senate-passed measure, a Republican aide said.


from reuters

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives are looking to add an amendment to the Senate-passed "fiscal cliff" legislation that would cut spending by $330 billion, Republican Representative Darrell Issa said on Tuesday.

Republicans are now weighing whether they will be able to get enough votes to pass such an amendment. If not, they will hold an up-or-down vote on the Senate-passed measure, a Republican aide said.


from reuters




Whoops! They've already abandoned plan to add spending cuts!!!!!!

They must have looked at the pre-market futures.

[FaninAma]

Whoops! They've already abandoned plan to add spending cuts!!!!!!

They must have looked at the pre-market futures.
I wonder how the markets will react when deficits get to the point that the central banks, including the Federal Reserve, lose control of interest rates within the next 3 years?

looks like I am going all in on commodities tomorrow.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

up or down vote on Senate plan at 8:30 Norman time.


Unless they change their mind again.

[Sooner5030]

Any person that votes for it is voting for a $3.6 trillion increase in deficits.

Yeah.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I wonder how the markets will react when deficits get to the point that the central banks, including the Federal Reserve, lose control of interest rates within the next 3 years?

looks like I am going all in on commodities tomorrow.

you're right that low interest rates mitigate the huge debt.

[LiveLaughLove]

Liberal...?

Dude....if you ever met a real Liberal...you'd explode.

Yeah sure.

Now the day I meet one and they actually admit to being one, THEN my head might explode.

Until then if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... its a flaming lib.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

House pubs...


http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2012/12/04/100276721-bungee-jumper-gettyp.240x160.jpg?v=1354721495

[SoonerorLater]

Sit back and enjoy the theater. No matter what we do it will be wrong. We have debt that simply can not be repaid. The powers that be are shooting for a controlled soft default via inflation or possibly a dollar devaluation. Won't work. When the dollar is destroyed as the world's reserve currency think of life is the U.S. as The Great Depression cubed.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah sure.

Now the day I meet one and they actually admit to being one, THEN my head might explode.

Until then if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... its a flaming lib.

That line of thinking is almost liberal....better get a damn mirror....

"Hey everybody! I'm not a liberal! It's everybody else!"

[StoopTroup]

All Ducks are liberals

[LiveLaughLove]

That line of thinking is almost liberal....better get a damn mirror....

"Hey everybody! I'm not a liberal! It's everybody else!"

Let me know when that makes sense.


All Ducks are liberals

Or that.

I'm a Conservative, a Christian Evangelical Bible Thumping Hell Fire and Brimstone Tea Party Strict Constitutionalist Justice Scalia Is Too Left For Me (that last parts a joke you sense of humor lacking libs) Conservative to be exact. I got no problem stating it. And I don't need to look in a mirror to see it.

And I don't give a darn who likes that and who doesn't.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Paul Ryan voted yes.

[StoopTroup]

Let me know when that makes sense.



Or that.

I'm a Conservative, a Christian Evangelical Bible Thumping Hell Fire and Brimstone Tea Party Strict Constitutionalist Justice Scalia Is Too Left For Me (that last parts a joke you sense of humor lacking libs) Conservative to be exact. I got no problem stating it. And I don't need to look in a mirror to see it.

And I don't give a darn who likes that and who doesn't.

Damn....at least I got a clarification.....LMAO

[FaninAma]

you're right that low interest rates mitigate the huge debt.
Of course I am right and right now they are artificially low. Meanwhile savers and retirees are getting crushed. But why would the big spending politicians care about these peons?

At some point it will not matter how much of our debt the Fed buys. The interest rates will go up and the cost of servicing the debt will crush the country. And do you think the have-nots who are entirely dependent on the government will sit quietly by and let people who saved and prepared for the eventuality of a bankrupt government to keep what they worked for?

[soonercruiser]

House Pugs voted against the bill 2:1.
Demoncrats, however, voted for Joe BiteMe by about 10:1.

AS I predicted, it passed.

[okie52]

I expect more pubs (like me) to move towards the libertarian party. Of course, we'd have to get them on the ballot in OK.

[StoopTroup]

I'll guarantee you that most Republicans in Tulsa will not move towards the Libertarian Party and put their Districts in danger of Democratic Rule.

[okie52]

It would take a lot of pubs moving to jeopardize districts...I'm not suggesting anything like that. But for some of us the pubs are appearing less viable nationally.

[StoopTroup]

The two Parties will do everything they can to keep the Libertarians from getting to a National Level.

I've seen a bunch of pissed off people suddenly decide to organize before and they always seem to think that someone needs to get out there and fight for their rights and wishes to be a Nationally Accepted Party....but as soon as some folks start asking the pissed off folks if they are willing to run a website or a phone or mailing bank or help file the detailed legal documents they will assuredly run up against....they are all like...."Well...maybe I could give you a couple of hours some weekend.

Something like this takes passion, dedication and a real belief in what you are trying to change as well as knowing what you are trying to change.

Maybe you guys can hire Faninama instead of letting him leave for Ireland?

I'd seriously give him a shot if I were you.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Originally Posted by SanJoaquinSooner

I don't think the house is finished if they pass it. House members are elected by voters within their own district. Those who would clearly suffer the wrath of the voters will vote no.


With all due respect, you are clueless. Its not the general election the GOP reps have to worry about. It is the primaries. Any GOP rep who votes for this garbage will face a primary challenge.

BTW, do you think it is a great deal that results in virtually no spending cuts?


I'll stand by my claim. Lots of pubs voted no, but enough voted yes for the senate bill to pass.

But I understand your point, the pubs voted to punish their own, treating all votes as litmus tests. If they aren't pure, then they're RINOs.

The truth is, the donks had 2/3 of the power. The pubs actually did a lot better than they might have. Actually a lot of donks are pissed that the taxes weren't raised more - on 250K and above, higher on cap gains and not just on higher income earners, etc. They also wanted cuts delayed a year instead of two months.

The tax victory is really that the bush tax cuts were made permanent for all under 400K. And ATM was fixed. Obama only got 1/2 the new tax revenue that he wanted.

[JohnnyMack]

Once again the GOP is in the shape its in because of its own doing. I, like fan, truly hope that the GOP is cast off into the wilderness and reemerges without the baggage of the Ralph Reeds and the rest of the fundy-right wing, anti-intellectual moonbats who cost the party the 2012 election in the first place. **** the GOP. It's getting what it deserves.

[FaninAma]

Once again the GOP is in the shape its in because of its own doing. I, like fan, truly hope that the GOP is cast off into the wilderness and reemerges without the baggage of the Ralph Reeds and the rest of the fundy-right wing, anti-intellectual moonbats who cost the party the 2012 election in the first place. **** the GOP. It's getting what it deserves.

Totally agree. The party needs to tilt heavily toward the libertarians and start requiring self-responsibility. Quit acting like the Democrat-lite party.

[badger]

as soon as some folks start asking the pissed off folks if they are willing to run a website or a phone or mailing bank or help file the detailed legal documents they will assuredly run up against....they are all like...."Well...maybe I could give you a couple of hours some weekend.
I think that occurs many places in society, not just politics :)

[soonercruiser]

Also agree.
It seems like our national politics has become a spectator sport for the whiners.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

From the editors of National Review:



In our judgment, though, the deal was worth passing. It will result in less economic damage than either doing nothing (and thus letting all the tax cuts expire) or adopting Obama’s initial position would have. It will also give the federal government less revenue to spend than either of those alternatives. Conservatives who judge these matters differently should make their case without suggesting, falsely, that taxes would have stayed down if only McConnell, Boehner, et al. had not “caved.”

[Midtowner]

The interest rates will go up and the cost of servicing the debt will crush the country. And do you think the have-nots who are entirely dependent on the government will sit quietly by and let people who saved and prepared for the eventuality of a bankrupt government to keep what they worked for?

This ain't Venezuela and the 5th Amendment prevents uncompensated takings, and if money is just sitting in accounts, I don't think any Court would bless a savings tax or something along those lines.

[diverdog]

This ain't Venezuela and the 5th Amendment prevents uncompensated takings, and if money is just sitting in accounts, I don't think any Court would bless a savings tax or something along those lines.

I think he is thinking armed revolt.

[Midtowner]

I think he is thinking armed revolt.

Oh for the love of God...

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/092/e/5/Star_Trek_Facepalm_by_Pulvinar.jpg

Armed revolt ain't happening. Maybe some isolated violence if the bennies are cut off, but that's about it. The fact is though, no one is going to cut off food stamps or any of that because of how much it means to the ag folks. Social spending is (I would hope) much further up the list of priorities than military spending, etc.

Even at the current spending rates, if we stop spending more, and cut unproductive spending, we can grow our way out of this. The trouble in the past has been both parties, primarily Republicans, adding massive new spending. It's been great for big pharma and military contractors in the short run, but it's hell on the debt.

[SoonerorLater]

The Republican House should oppose the White House on EVERYTHING. I voted Republican for one reason only, to be a roadblock to anything this administration wants to do. Fight them every inch of the way.

[Midtowner]

The Republican House should oppose the White House on EVERYTHING. I voted Republican for one reason only, to be a roadblock to anything this administration wants to do. Fight them every inch of the way.

Keep thinking like that and you'll be further marginalized.

[SoonerorLater]

Keep thinking like that and you'll be further marginalized.

How in your estimation would that marginalize me?