President Barack O'Insult!

[soonercruiser]

What the HE11 is the matter with this President???

So, he announces a "WH news conference" at 1:30 Eastern; ends up at 1:40 with a stage and room full of cheering full supporters!
Spends a few seconds talking generalities about a potential agreement with Congress...
THEN! SPIKES THE BALL AND INSULTS REPUBICANS IN CONGRESS!!!

What the he11 is the matter with this as*hole??
The only reason that I can possibly concieve for the purpose of his staged pep rally was to insult and outrage Republicans, so that they will vote in the House against the bill! Is that really whay he wanted to do???

Forget his lying lips on any "balanced" approach...all that is in the agreement is spending!
Extension of unemployment for another year!?
NOT EVEN a mention of PROMISED CUTS!!!

The guy is simply INSANE!
The problem IS SDPENDING, you moron!
(And, just in case you missed it, Congress and staffers get a pay raise effect midnight!)

[nutinbutdust]

See my Pole, are the liberals drunk with power? I cannot believe the lack of Cooperation between the parties, but the head of the country seems to have the My way or the Highway attitude. I do have to admit he has played a brilliant strategy, putting the Pubs in a lose lose situation on this.

[badger]

About all they can agree on right now is that rich people's taxes are going up.

Maybe they can pass a middle class tax cut while letting the rest expire. Oooo, that would peeve off the Dems :D

[OU_Sooners75]

That's what you get when you put a dumbass in power.

[okiewaker]

I'm not amused watching these creeps fight each other over which groups of citizens they want to scr*w over. They're fighting over which folks will get the Vaseline and which ones won't.

[OU_Sooners75]

IMO the fight is unnecessary.

Raise taxes on those making over 450k.
Cut spending in all aspects of the government.
Reduce the size of the federal government.
Reform tax codes to remove loopholes.
Ban lobby groups.
Balance the budget...make it a constitutional amendment.

[cleller]

On the one hand, they kind of deserve it. On the other, its not like one party did all the stalling.

[soonercruiser]

When's the last time the Senate passed a budget, or Harry R. allowed a vote?
'nuff said!

[StoopTroup]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that this Fiscal Cliff is the problem of the POTUS. He wasn't the one that signed a Grover Norquist Agreement to not increase taxes. He hasn't ever painted himself into a corner. It was the Republicans banking on getting power in the WH in 2012 and continuing to use Filibusters to hold things up.

The President...if you are listening....is staying in DC waiting for the House and Senate to agree to a deal that meets or prevents our Country from going over the Fiscal Cliff. He hasn't wavered. He hasn't made them offers. He's waiting on them. He told them what he can agree to. They have yet to pass anything for him to sign. He hasn't ever had an agreement in front of him to sign.

So...who is lying?

It's not the POTUS.

[sappstuf]

"Preventing that tax hike has been my top priority, because the last thing folks, like the folks up here on this stage, can afford right now is it to pay an extra $2,000 in taxes next year,"

Wait... Didn't he just come back from vacation in Hawaii 2 days ago??

It is amazing what you can get away with when the press is on your side....

[sappstuf]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that this Fiscal Cliff is the problem of the POTUS. He wasn't the one that signed a Grover Norquist Agreement to not increase taxes. He hasn't ever painted himself into a corner. It was the Republicans banking on getting power in the WH in 2012 and continuing to use Filibusters to hold things up.

The President...if you are listening....is staying in DC waiting for the House and Senate to agree to a deal that meets or prevents our Country from going over the Fiscal Cliff. He hasn't wavered. He hasn't made them offers. He's waiting on them. He told them what he can agree to. They have yet to pass anything for him to sign. He hasn't ever had an agreement in front of him to sign.

So...who is lying?

It's not the POTUS.

Who signed off on the deal that put the fiscal cliff on the map in the first place? Hint: It is the guy who never paints himself in a corner...

Except now apparently.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That's what you get when you put a dumbass Socialist in power.FI

[StoopTroup]

Who signed off on the deal that put the fiscal cliff on the map in the first place? Hint: It is the guy who never paints himself in a corner...

Except now apparently.

As we speak...Lindsey Graham and McCain are announcing we are going over the cliff.

And bitching about the President's Pep Rally.

Graham: Hats off to the President. He won the argument for sequestration.

You would also think that when you sign deals that Congress would again pass another deal to sign. Evidently not this time so....sappstuf...it's on Congress and especially the House.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It is amazing what you can get away with when the press is on your side....


It's largely what has caused the downfall of the country.

[sappstuf]

As we speak...Lindsey Graham and McCain are announcing we are going over the cliff.

And bitching about the President's Pep Rally.

It isn't the first time that the president has torpedoed negotiations at the last minute.

The WP had a great story a couple of months ago detailing how Obama was at fault for the complete breakdown of the "grand bargain" that left us where we are today with the fiscal cliff.

[badger]

It's largely what has caused the downfall of the country.

Downfall? Is the U.S. really in such bad shape compared to 5, 10, 20 years ago? Granted, the economy has been stinky lately, but we have continually made advanced in science, technology, medicine and education.

I guess it depends on who you ask

[StoopTroup]

It isn't the first time that the president has torpedoed negotiations at the last minute.

The WP had a great story a couple of months ago detailing how Obama was at fault for the complete breakdown of the "grand bargain" that left us where we are today with the fiscal cliff.

You aren't torpedoing negotiations if there aren't negotiations going on. This is THE LAST DAY! This isn't about negotiations....this is about coming to an agreement TODAY!

[badger]

Technically, couldn't they come to an agreement tomorrow, since it's a holiday anyway?

[sappstuf]

You aren't torpedoing negotiations if there aren't negotiations going on. This is THE LAST DAY! This isn't about negotiations....this is about coming to an agreement TODAY!

Yeah right... The markets don't open until Wednesday. Plenty of time for negotiations.

[sappstuf]

Technically, couldn't they come to an agreement tomorrow, since it's a holiday anyway?

Damn.. You beat me to it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Downfall? Is the U.S. really in such bad shape compared to 5, 10, 20 years ago? Granted, the economy has been stinky lately, but we have continually made advanced in science, technology, medicine and education.

I guess it depends on who you askWe are not the same country we were. If you haven't noticed, well, that's not good.

[StoopTroup]

Technically, couldn't they come to an agreement tomorrow, since it's a holiday anyway?


Technically it looked like McCain and Lindsey Graham were headed over to Barney Franks for drinks.

[badger]

We are not the same country we were. If you haven't noticed, well, that's not good.

I'm young. I didn't get affordable college costs, the choice between a pension and a 401K, or watch the price of my house double as I built equity. But, I also didn't have to fight for the right to vote, worry about my local gas station not having gas, or wonder if my Sooners would win the national title during my lifetime.

... oh wait, that's only a problem if you're 12 or younger now. We really DO live in a crappy world. Woe... woe... the world without a Sooner national title in 12 years :(:(:(:(:(

[BermudaSooner]

IMO the fight is unnecessary.

Raise taxes on those making over 450k.


Why is it obvious to raise taxes on those making over 450k? Why do the ones already paying an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of the taxes have to take on even more burden?

How about the 48% that pay nothing...where the F is their "fair share?"

[Turd_Ferguson]

Why is it obvious to raise taxes on those making over 450k? Why do the ones already paying an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of the taxes have to take on even more burden?

How about the 48% that pay nothing...where the F is their "fair share?"

Agree.

[BermudaSooner]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that this Fiscal Cliff is the problem of the POTUS. He wasn't the one that signed a Grover Norquist Agreement to not increase taxes. He hasn't ever painted himself into a corner. It was the Republicans banking on getting power in the WH in 2012 and continuing to use Filibusters to hold things up.

The President...if you are listening....is staying in DC waiting for the House and Senate to agree to a deal that meets or prevents our Country from going over the Fiscal Cliff. He hasn't wavered. He hasn't made them offers. He's waiting on them. He told them what he can agree to. They have yet to pass anything for him to sign. He hasn't ever had an agreement in front of him to sign.

So...who is lying?

It's not the POTUS.

Apparently the POTUS is supposed to be the leader of the country. Throwing a hand grenade over to Congress and saying, "nothing I can do" isn't leading.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Why is it obvious to raise taxes on those making over 450k? Why do the ones already paying an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of the taxes have to take on even more burden?

How about the 48% that pay nothing...where the F is their "fair share?"we have a

SPENDING PROBLEM!!!

this is not complicated.

[Midtowner]

Balance the budget...make it a constitutional amendment.

Removing 1+ Trillion from the economy is a surefire way to trigger a depression. Econ 101.

[StoopTroup]

Apparently the POTUS is supposed to be the leader of the country. Throwing a hand grenade over to Congress and saying, "nothing I can do" isn't leading.

You still have to pass something. That isn't leading either. Poor Boehner.

[StoopTroup]

Removing 1+ Trillion from the economy is a surefire way to trigger a depression. Econ 101.

Hell....these days....it's taught in HS.

[Midtowner]

Apparently the POTUS is supposed to be the leader of the country. Throwing a hand grenade over to Congress and saying, "nothing I can do" isn't leading.

And how would you propose he "lead" House Republicans? Give in to the scare tactics? If we go over the cliff, those same idiots will be begging for tax relief immediately when they previously let us all experience pain in order to protect those making above $450K. That's not something I'd want to take home to the Town Hall.

[StoopTroup]

Why is it obvious to raise taxes on those making over 450k? Why do the ones already paying an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of the taxes have to take on even more burden?

How about the 48% that pay nothing...where the F is their "fair share?"

I understand that you feel the need for an answer. You should contact Lindsey Graham because he was just on CNN Shaking his head up and down in a YES manner that he has agreed to this at anywhere from $400,000-500,000.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Removing 1+ Trillion from the economy is a surefire way to trigger a depression. Econ 101.Wow! you show up with that $chnidt just about everywhere. Econ 0.00. Buh bye, arready

[Turd_Ferguson]

Wow! you show up with that $chnidt just about everywhere. Econ 0.00. Buh bye, arready

Get it right...it's MACROecon 101. That's been his word for the week.

[Midtowner]

Hell....these days....it's taught in HS.

The ignorance here is just staggering. My last experience with this subject matter was in Macroeconomics, somewhere around 12 years ago. It ain't rocket science, a trilion bucks.. let's say we take it out of defense... millions of soldiers and defense contractors join the ranks of the unemployed triggering more welfare spending. Some of them earn pretty good checks, so the unemployment costs would be staggering. 1 trillion in cuts there = (just making up a number for argument's sake) 500 billion in new spending on entitlements.

Or look at it from a Republican's standpoint, cut welfare? Okay, you now have millions of people who are literally homeless. They're not going to like that very much, so you're going to end up a lot more crime (even the Romans understood bread and circuses for the masses). In fact, this is the very sort of crime which in other countries in years past, has led to successful armed rebellion. Further, those folks on welfare spend their money. A study published by the FDA showed that for every federal dollar awarded in the SNAP program, $1.79 (or so) worth of economic activity occurs. So the consequence, besides possible armed rebellion, would be Dollar General would close, thousands of jobs there, Wal Marts and grocery stores would see huge dips in revenue. Subsidized housing is gone? A lot of landlords are going to go belly up and multifamily rental rates would plummet as would conditions. People would literally starve in the darkness.

Cuts are not the answer. Freezing spending where it is right now and then growing out of the deficit would work. Adding some cost control provisions to things like the prescription drug program for seniors (like every other country in the civilized world) would be a good way to preserve Medicare. Moving soldiers back home so that the dollars spent on them could grow the economy would be smart. Start treating China as an economic rival. Stop giving our companies breaks for locating plants overseas. Free trade is not fair trade, etc.

If there are any cuts, do it at a time when the economy can actually absorb the lost spending, not at a time when we already are looking at huge unemployment and slow growth. This is really basic stuff people.

[sappstuf]

The ignorance here is just staggering. My last experience with this subject matter was in Macroeconomics, somewhere around 12 years ago. It ain't rocket science, a trilion bucks.. let's say we take it out of defense... millions of soldiers and defense contractors join the ranks of the unemployed triggering more welfare spending. Some of them earn pretty good checks, so the unemployment costs would be staggering. 1 trillion in cuts there = (just making up a number for argument's sake) 500 billion in new spending on entitlements.

Or look at it from a Republican's standpoint, cut welfare? Okay, you now have millions of people who are literally homeless. They're not going to like that very much, so you're going to end up a lot more crime (even the Romans understood bread and circuses for the masses). In fact, this is the very sort of crime which in other countries in years past, has led to successful armed rebellion. Further, those folks on welfare spend their money. A study published by the FDA showed that for every federal dollar awarded in the SNAP program, $1.79 (or so) worth of economic activity occurs. So the consequence, besides possible armed rebellion, would be Dollar General would close, thousands of jobs there, Wal Marts and grocery stores would see huge dips in revenue. Subsidized housing is gone? A lot of landlords are going to go belly up and multifamily rental rates would plummet as would conditions. People would literally starve in the darkness.

Cuts are not the answer. Freezing spending where it is right now and then growing out of the deficit would work. Adding some cost control provisions to things like the prescription drug program for seniors (like every other country in the civilized world) would be a good way to preserve Medicare. Moving soldiers back home so that the dollars spent on them could grow the economy would be smart. Start treating China as an economic rival. Stop giving our companies breaks for locating plants overseas. Free trade is not fair trade, etc.

If there are any cuts, do it at a time when the economy can actually absorb the lost spending, not at a time when we already are looking at huge unemployment and slow growth. This is really basic stuff people.

Thanks to baseline budgeting, freezing spending is considered a "cut" and the Dems never go for it. Even reducing the growth of spending has been relentlessly attacked by the left.

[Midtowner]

Thanks to baseline budgeting, freezing spending is considered a "cut" and the Dems never go for it. Even reducing the growth of spending has been relentlessly attacked by the left.

Yeah, I'll admit the Dems drink their own koolaid as much as the Republicans drink theirs. Freezing is not THAT unreasonable.

[diverdog]

If Boehner could control his caucus this would be non-issue. He needs to tell the Tea Baggers to shut the **** up and let the adults work out a deal that is best for the country.

[Soonerjeepman]

jeeze so you are saying NO CUTS in anything? wow. That is crazy.

[pphilfran]

Balance the budget...make it a constitutional amendment.

Won't work....

During an economic downturn the public and business are not spending so the government must take up the slack even when revenue is down...without that additional spending the downturn will go on much longer and could spiral deeper...

The problem is when the economy is doing well and our leadership decides to spend all of the windfall instead of putting some back into reducing the debt accumulated during the downturn...

[diverdog]

jeeze so you are saying NO CUTS in anything? wow. That is crazy.

I do not think that is what he is saying.

[diverdog]

Apparently the POTUS is supposed to be the leader of the country. Throwing a hand grenade over to Congress and saying, "nothing I can do" isn't leading.

He never said that.

[pphilfran]

jeeze so you are saying NO CUTS in anything? wow. That is crazy.

With a slow growing economy and little help from the rest of the world it is the smart thing to do...

If we can somehow grow the economy we would see less spending and higher revenue....military spending is already due for 40 billion a year in cuts prior to any current negotiations...Mid and I have already discussed how we would handle to military outside the US...

[Midtowner]

jeeze so you are saying NO CUTS in anything? wow. That is crazy.

You have to understand that when you are spending borrowed money, that stimulates the economy. Whether it's when John Doe goes out and buys a $55K Lexus SUV only putting down $10K, he just added $45K to the economy. Banks don't actually have to have reserves to match their liabilities, so that is newly minted money growing the economy.

The same can be said for the U.S. Government selling bonds to buy a new $4.5Bn aircraft carrier. That's $4.5Bn immediately into the economy and the bondholder gets paid...someday...we hope, but that's real growth. Don't buy that aircraft carrier? Lots of shipbuilders go on unemployment, and we really haven't fixed our spending problem because instead of paying shipbuilders, we're now paying SNAP, TANF, Section 8, unemployment and whatnot.

You couldn't even cut the Department of Commerce or Education which to my mind are completely worthless in every possible regard by 100% without hurting the economy. Federal paychecks cut, unemployment would go up, the economy would shrink.

Econ 101 stuff here. Basic basic stuff.

[okie52]

Good God....we may all go back to the Clinton tax rates. Dam that W and his tax cuts.

[pphilfran]

I highly dislike openly criticizing a group to the public...this does nothing to bring them to the table and help with compromise...behind closed doors you beat the snot out of them but you never do this in public view...

[Midtowner]

With a slow growing economy and little help from the rest of the world it is the smart thing to do...

If we can somehow grow the economy we would see less spending and higher revenue....military spending is already due for 40 billion a year in cuts prior to any current negotiations...Mid and I have already discussed how we would handle to military outside the US...

Reconfigure military spending to where it most benefits the domestic economy. Purchasing uniforms from China? WTF is that?? Stop that stupid **** now and if we're going to have to live with this military industrial complex, make it a benefit to the people supporting it rather than a benefactor to foreign companies.

[diverdog]

With a slow growing economy and little help from the rest of the world it is the smart thing to do...

If we can somehow grow the economy we would see less spending and higher revenue....military spending is already due for 40 billion a year in cuts prior to any current negotiations...Mid and I have already discussed how we would handle to military outside the US...

Phil:

Check this article out!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-31/shale-gas-revolution-spurs-wave-of-new-u-s-steel-plants-energy.html

and


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-27/exxon-to-sempra-can-export-half-of-u-s-home-gas-supply-energy.html

[Midtowner]

I highly dislike openly criticizing a group to the public...this does nothing to bring them to the table and help with compromise...behind closed doors you beat the snot out of them but you never do this in public view...

I have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, the Tea Party Caucus is playing a ridiculous brinksmanship game when the other side clearly has the better cards. They are going to lose in the media coverage of this and will allow the Dems to play heroes by immediately cutting taxes for everyone the Dems want to cut taxes for.

On the other, when you call a stupid person what they are (as happens here on SF quite often) they just entrench into their ridiculous positions and hurl insults (see the name of this thread for an example of such conduct). While the President's message was likely both cathartic and true, it really didn't help. Maybe he knows we've got a done deal and is spiking the football prepping his argument for control of the House in 2014.

[diverdog]

I highly dislike openly criticizing a group to the public...this does nothing to bring them to the table and help with compromise...behind closed doors you beat the snot out of them but you never do this in public view...

Reagan did it all the time.

[pphilfran]

Phil:

Check this article out!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-31/shale-gas-revolution-spurs-wave-of-new-u-s-steel-plants-energy.html

and


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-27/exxon-to-sempra-can-export-half-of-u-s-home-gas-supply-energy.html

Good read...hadn't seen that....thanks!

[pphilfran]

Reagan did it all the time.

Don't care...there are better ways and public intimidation is a poor way to bring compromise...

[diverdog]

Damn.. You beat me to it.


Good read...hadn't seen that....thanks!

Phil:

As our energy cost decline we could really see the economy take off. The President needs to get behind this full bore. Manufacturing is moving back and that bodes well for the future.

[pphilfran]

Phil:

As our energy cost decline we could really see the economy take off. The President needs to get behind this full bore. Manufacturing is moving back and that bodes well for the future.

Too bad it is an evil carbon based fuel.... :)

[okie52]

Too bad it is an evil carbon based fuel.... :)

Its not carbon according to pelosi.

[pphilfran]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/obama-fiscal-cliff-remarks_n_2388980.html

I rest my case...

But his midday press conference, with a group of middle-class Americans looking on, was not without a bit of bravado as well. Obama took multiple shots at Congress for its clumsiness in negotiations and insisted that he'd demand more tax hikes if the legislative body used the impending debt ceiling standoff to demand spending cuts.

In the process, the president irked several Republican aides, who suggested that the entire fiscal cliff deal had been complicated because of his tone and criticism.

“Potus just moved the goalpost again. Significantly. This is new,” tweeted a top aide to McConnell.

Doug Heye, a spokesman for House Majority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), tweeted, “If Obama's goal was to harm the process and make going over the cliff more likely, he's succeeding.” Another Cantor spokesperson said, “So....I'm confused....does POTUS want a deal or not? Because all those jabs at Congress certainly sounded like a smack in the face to me.

[olevetonahill]

IMO the fight is unnecessary.

Raise taxes on those making over 450k.Bullshat Raise EVERY ones taxes
Cut spending in all aspects of the government.Agreed
Reduce the size of the federal government.Agreed
Reform tax codes to remove loopholes.Agreed
Ban lobby groups.agreed
Balance the budget...make it a constitutional amendment.Agreed


It aint the Job of those who worked their Butts off to have to Pay more for those who Didnt.

[StoopTroup]

You wait until the last day of the year and don't expect to be criticized?

Seriously....get a shrink.

[StoopTroup]

The President hit it out of the park.

[okie52]

The President hit it out of the park.

Lol

[StoopTroup]

Lol

Your taxes just went up...funny as hell.

[sappstuf]

You wait until the last day of the year and don't expect to be criticized?

Seriously....get a shrink.

Agreed. Obama acting like this has been his top priority when he has been off on vacation is somewhat silly isn't it.

[okie52]

Your taxes just went up...funny as hell.

Yep, back to Clinton's tax rates and all of that " shared sacrifice"

I'm cant stop laughing.

[diverdog]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/obama-fiscal-cliff-remarks_n_2388980.html

I rest my case...

But his midday press conference, with a group of middle-class Americans looking on, was not without a bit of bravado as well. Obama took multiple shots at Congress for its clumsiness in negotiations and insisted that he'd demand more tax hikes if the legislative body used the impending debt ceiling standoff to demand spending cuts.

In the process, the president irked several Republican aides, who suggested that the entire fiscal cliff deal had been complicated because of his tone and criticism.

“Potus just moved the goalpost again. Significantly. This is new,” tweeted a top aide to McConnell.

Doug Heye, a spokesman for House Majority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), tweeted, “If Obama's goal was to harm the process and make going over the cliff more likely, he's succeeding.” Another Cantor spokesperson said, “So....I'm confused....does POTUS want a deal or not? Because all those jabs at Congress certainly sounded like a smack in the face to me.

Phil:

The Republicans have spent the better part of two years berating the POTUS. Cantor was the leader of the pack. Well they got bitch slapped in a election they should have won and is payback time. I am actually enjoying this game of political brinkmanship.

[pphilfran]

You wait until the last day of the year and don't expect to be criticized?

Seriously....get a shrink.

Fearless leader was also one of the ones that waited until the last day of the year....

So it was only the pubs that forgot about handling their business over the last 6 months while the dems stayed and worked their fingers to the bone...is this correct?

[olevetonahill]

Lol

Heh Maybe this is needed
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/9/18/128977476565768837.jpg

[pphilfran]

Phil:

The Republicans have spent the better part of two years berating the POTUS. Cantor was the leader of the pack. Well they got bitch slapped in a election they should have won and is payback time. I am actually enjoying this game of political brinkmanship.

I don't give a chit, DD...

It does not help the situation..I will be critical of anybody that berates their co workers in the public eye..

[cleller]

Who brings their own cheering section to a press conference? What a narcissistic goof.

[olevetonahill]

Fearless leader was also one of the ones that waited until the last day of the year....

So it was only the pubs that forgot about handling their business over the last 6 months while the dems stayed and worked their fingers to the bone...is this correct?

He dint wait till the Last day He went to Hawaii to play then came home to bitch

[StoopTroup]

Fearless leader was also one of the ones that waited until the last day of the year....

So it was only the pubs that forgot about handling their business over the last 6 months while the dems stayed and worked their fingers to the bone...is this correct?

I think I remember the POTUS on air right before Christmas saying they should all go Home for Christmas, drink some eggnog, have some time with Family and get back after that and be prepared to solve this thing. This is the last day that can happen. All it takes is a vote and to put something in front of him to sign or veto.

[pphilfran]

The whole deal is an embarrassment...GM at their worst was far better than this bunch...

[okie52]

Heh Maybe this is needed
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/9/18/128977476565768837.jpg

Heh...some people seem to get really angry when it's "their tax rates" that go up....not so much when it's someone else's.

[pphilfran]

I think I remember the POTUS on air right before Christmas saying they should all go Home for Christmas, drink some eggnog, have some time with Family and get back after that and be prepared to solve this thing. This is the last day that can happen. All it takes is a vote and to put something in front of him to sign or veto.

**** that...they failed to do anything for nearly a year...they should have been working Christmas night...my 2 year old dachshund knew they wouldn't get a quality and effective deal done in less than a week...

[StoopTroup]

Heh...some people seem to get really angry when it's "their tax rates" that go up....not so much when it's someone else's.

I'm not angry. I'm getting a break. We are going to be just fine here. I really feel badly for those that I know this will really hurt.

[StoopTroup]

**** that...they failed to do anything for nearly a year...they should have been working Christmas night...my 2 year old dachshund knew they wouldn't get a quality and effective deal done in less than a week...

WTH ever. Everyone went Home. Now...if Congress had stayed at work and the POTUS had left for Hawaii....I might agree. You are spinning this.

[okie52]

Phil:

The Republicans have spent the better part of two years berating the POTUS. Cantor was the leader of the pack. Well they got bitch slapped in a election they should have won and is payback time. I am actually enjoying this game of political brinkmanship.

More like 4 years berating Hussein...and the pubs bitchslapped Obama just 2 years ago.

[olevetonahill]

Heh...some people seem to get really angry when it's "their tax rates" that go up....not so much when it's someone else's.

I doubt theres maybe 2 Peeps who post here who make that bracket.

[diverdog]

Heh...some people seem to get really angry when it's "their tax rates" that go up....not so much when it's someone else's.

You wanna see some real crying. Watch what happens if all these folks on thiis board who get government benefits or pay checks actually get cut by the amount needed to balance the budget. They think they are immune but sooner or later it will happen.

[pphilfran]

WTH ever. Everyone went Home. Now...if Congress had stayed at work and the POTUS had left for Hawaii....I might agree. You are spinning this.

Spinning it? Everyone of the lazy *** sobs should have been working 12 hours a day...7 days a week until the problem was resolved...

But instead, they ignored a self imposed deadline and have made themselves look like a bunch of 3rd graders on recess...

And what do they get for their incompetence? A raise....

[okie52]

I'm not angry. I'm getting a break. We are going to be just fine here. I really feel badly for those that I know this will really hurt.

What's wrong with the Clinton tax rates? People didnt seem to appreciate W when he lowered everyone's rates.

[okie52]

I doubt theres maybe 2 Peeps who post here who make that bracket.

If you are talking obama's targeted victims then yes....but if it goes back to Clinton's tax rates then probably most on this board will be affected.

[okie52]

You wanna see some real crying. Watch what happens if all these folks on thiis board who get government benefits or pay checks actually get cut by the amount needed to balance the budget. They think they are immune but sooner or later it will happen.

But thats not really on the table now...is it.

[StoopTroup]

What's wrong with the Clinton tax rates? People didnt seem to appreciate W when he lowered everyone's rates.

Nothing. Matter of fact they were saying that both sides had agreed on rates back to the Clinton years. Things were on schedule to be decided until McCain and Lindsey Graham came on TV acting insulted by the POTUS.

[pphilfran]

Are payroll taxes going to go back up or are they going to continue with the cut....I haven't seen anything...

[okie52]

Nothing. Matter of fact they were saying that both sides had agreed on rates back to the Clinton years. Things were on schedule to be decided until McCain and Lindsey Graham came on TV acting insulted by the POTUS.

You mean they weren't insulted by Hussein?

[pphilfran]

Nothing. Matter of fact they were saying that both sides had agreed on rates back to the Clinton years. Things were on schedule to be decided until Obama came on TV and insulted a large group of Congress...

[pphilfran]

You mean they weren't insulted by Hussein?
Great minds think alike....

[StoopTroup]

But thats not really on the table now...is it.

I don't think anyone knows what's on the table now. McCain and Graham seem to be running things in Washington right now while the POTUS was saying they had a few things to still solve today.

What happened between the POTUS's Speech and the McCain/Graham is what nobody seems to know.

What happens now? Do they completely start over? Some say they will agree to a few things to keep a disaster from happening and others seem to be flying off the cliff.

[okie52]

Are payroll taxes going to go back up or are they going to continue with the cut....I haven't seen anything...

I thought Hussein was going to keep those tax cuts...which made no sense with SS's shape...but that wouldn't be a first for him.

[StoopTroup]

You mean they weren't insulted by Hussein?

I think the Iraqis hung him and his head popped off.

[pphilfran]

I don't think anyone knows what's on the table now. McCain and Graham seem to be running things in Washington right now while the POTUS was saying they had a few things to still solve today.

What happened between the POTUS's Speech and the McCain/Graham is what nobody seems to know.

What happens now? Do they completely start over? Some say they will agree to a few things to keep a disaster from happening and others seem to be flying off the cliff.

Nobody seems to know? Head Cheese came on TV with his cheering section and proceeded to **** off a large group involved in the negotiations...

[okie52]

I think the Iraqis hung him and his head popped off.

Tough break.

[pphilfran]

I thought Hussein was going to keep those tax cuts...which made no sense with SS's shape...but that wouldn't be a first for him.

What difference does it make? The cuts give them less money to funnel out of SS....they spend every penny of the SS revenue and fund it with Special Issue Bonds anyway...

It is probably a good thing.... lol

[StoopTroup]

Nobody seems to know? Head Cheese came on TV with his cheering section and proceeded to **** off a large group involved in the negotiations...

He also said they had come to some major agreements. Can you blame him for being a bit taken back by them still working on things at Mid-Afternoon? I can't. This affects a lot of people and it hurts our Country. Even though many here are convinced that some of us here are liberal Democrats because we don't agree with everything the GOP and the Conservative Right believe....it doesn't mean I think this is a great day. It's really bad. If anyone is going to be hurt by this...it's Americans. It's not Democrats or Republicans or Libertarians or Independents. It's Americans.

Now...if you want to blame them all, I guess I can agree but the folks that are going to be hurt politically are Republicans in the next election cycle. I don't like seeing that. I am a Moderate. What we are seeing is the Democratic Party making a comeback.

[okie52]

Nobody seems to know? Head Cheese came on TV with his cheering section and proceeded to **** off a large group involved in the negotiations...

I doubt the pubs will stand their ground but they should...just like newt should've with Clinton.

[okie52]

What difference does it make? The cuts give them less money to funnel out of SS....they spend every penny of the SS revenue and fund it with Special Issue Bonds anyway...

It is probably a good thing.... lol

Well, if you're going to look at it that way....
LOL

[StoopTroup]

Now Fox is saying that a GOP Senator is saying that there will be a vote tonight.

[pphilfran]

He also said they had come to some major agreements. Can you blame him for being a bit taken back by them still working on things at Mid-Afternoon? I can't. This affects a lot of people and it hurts our Country. Even though many here are convinced that some of here are liberal Democrats because we don't agree with everything the GOP and the Conservative Right believe....it doesn't mean I think this is a great day. It's really bad. If anyone is going to be hurt by this...it's Americans. It's not Democrats or Republicans or Libertarians or Independents. It's Americans.

Now...if you want to blame them all, I guess I can agree but the folks that are going to be hurt politically are Republicans in the next election cycle. I don't like seeing that. I am a Moderate. What we are seeing is the Democratic Party making a comeback.

Why did they all wait until after Christmas to start working on the thing? Did anyone expect an easy fix that would take a few minutes to put in place?

We don't know who is going to be hurt over the next four years...it is possible we will enter another recession in the next 4 years and that will fall in Obama's lap...his fault or not...

[StoopTroup]

Why did they all wait until after Christmas to start working on the thing? Did anyone expect an easy fix that would take a few minutes to put in place?

We don't know who is going to be hurt over the next four years...it is possible we will enter another recession in the next 4 years and that will fall in Obama's lap...his fault or not...

Your first ? Hell if I know and what does it matter. All I'm saying is "HERE WE ARE!"

The 2nd PP....It's going to be a lot of people. I think we all should be outraged but not at just our POTUS. This is between two branches of our Government. We might as well not pay any of them. They aren't doing their job and they have all broken their pledge to our Constitution IMO.

[pphilfran]

Your first ? Hell if I know and what does it matter. All I'm saying is "HERE WE ARE!"

The 2nd PP....It's going to be a lot of people. I think we all should be outraged but not at just our POTUS. This is between two branches of our Government. We might as well not pay any of them. They aren't doing their job and they have all broken their pledge to our Constitution IMO.

?

[olevetonahill]

You wanna see some real crying. Watch what happens if all these folks on thiis board who get government benefits or pay checks actually get cut by the amount needed to balance the budget. They think they are immune but sooner or later it will happen.

I'll take a 10% cut Are you willing to Pay 10% more?

[StoopTroup]

?

Exactly

[olevetonahill]

?

Are you really expecting a something that makes sense?

[pphilfran]

I'll take a 10% cut Are you willing to Pay 10% more?

2012
2.5 trillion in revenue - 10% across the board increase 250 billion
3.8 trillion in spending - 10% across the board decrease 380 billion

630 billion combined...less than half the deficit

[pphilfran]

Are you really expecting a something that makes sense?

lol

Up till that post I could understand his take...

[olevetonahill]

2012
2.5 trillion in revenue - 10% across the board increase 250 billion
3.8 trillion in spending - 10% across the board decrease 380 billion

630 billion combined...less than half the deficit

At least its a start Bro

[olevetonahill]

lol

Up till that post I could understand his take...

I put him on Iggy months ago, I see his posts when Yall quote him

[StoopTroup]

2012
2.5 trillion in revenue - 10% across the board increase 250 billion
3.8 trillion in spending - 10% across the board decrease 380 billion

630 billion combined...less than half the deficit

So in 3-4 Years we will be electing a new POTUS and our National Debt will be paid up.

Enough said. This is fantastic day for America.

[StoopTroup]

I put him on Iggy months ago, I see his posts when Yall quote him

I answered his post. I didn't understand what he can't understand. He asked some questions.

As far as you are concerned....you come here trying to get people to believe you are an OK guy. Your Posts prove differently. SSDD

[pphilfran]

So in 3-4 Years we will be electing a new POTUS and our National Debt will be paid up.

Enough said. This is fantastic day for America.

What?

As far as I am concerned the smaller the spending cuts and tax increases the better...

Tax rates and spending....deficits and debt...they are not the primary problem...an economy growing at 2-3% a year is what is going to sink us...

[pphilfran]

I am going to go get **** faced drunk...

[StoopTroup]

I am going to go get **** faced drunk...

Wish I could join ya. I think that's a much better idea.

[StoopTroup]

What?

As far as I am concerned the smaller the spending cuts and tax increases the better...

Tax rates and spending....deficits and debt...they are not the primary problem...an economy growing at 2-3% a year is what is going to sink us...

I was being sarcastic

[olevetonahill]

I am going to go get **** faced drunk...

Werks fer Me , Ima drank a few also myself.

[OU_Sooners75]

Removing 1+ Trillion from the economy is a surefire way to trigger a depression. Econ 101.

Okay oh great economist...

How is making it where the federal government needs to spend within their means taking 1trillion out of the economy?

Do you live within your means? Or do you live on debt?

Budgeting 101 tells us that if you continually live outside your means (or what you financially bring in) then it will catch up to you and you will end up bankrupt.

Our economy isn't the issue here. Its the simple fact that the government is spending more money than it is currently bringing in.

And you will not make up the difference by just raising taxes. What I've been hearing is with the automatic tax increases about to kick in it will only bring in about another 80-90 billion. That is not even close to enough to stop the hemmoraging.

Put in an amendment that says the government needs to run on a budget that is balanced (not negative) would be a very good thing.

Not to mention it would be a good thing if the Democrat led Senate wasn't breaking the law and actually pass a budget!

There are a lot of problems that need to be solved. Jjust raising taxes isn't the only issue.

[okie52]

I am going to go get **** faced drunk...

Should see nickdanger3rdeye in a couple hours....should be a little drinking going on...

[pphilfran]

A balanced budget is not a good thing when talking government...

When the 2008 recession hit we lost 500 billion in revenue...a forced balanced budget would have required a 20% across the board reduction in spending (2.6 trillion in revenue in 2007 to 2.1 trillion in 2009...

Add that 20% cut to decreased business spending and we would still be staring at 10% plus unemployment...massive welfare spending...and further reduced revenue stream...

[pphilfran]

Should see nickdanger3rdeye in a couple hours....should be a little drinking going on...

Happy New Years to both of ya...

[OU_Sooners75]

Why is it obvious to raise taxes on those making over 450k? Why do the ones already paying an overwhelmingly disproportionate share of the taxes have to take on even more burden?

How about the 48% that pay nothing...where the F is their "fair share?"

At least you pick and choose what to post about. Congrats, ill play along.

Why not raise taxes on those that don't pay anything? Why not.

Probably because then you would have even more people asking for welfare help to make it everyday.

That 48% is already struggling from paycheck to paycheck.

I'm not saying you don't pay taxes without getting anything in return, but odds are you are part of the 48%.

[OU_Sooners75]

A balanced budget is not a good thing when talking government...

When the 2008 recession hit we lost 500 billion in revenue...a forced balanced budget would have required a 20% across the board reduction in spending (2.6 trillion in revenue in 2007 to 2.1 trillion in 2009...

Add that 20% cut to decreased business spending and we would still be staring at 10% plus unemployment...massive welfare spending...and further reduced revenue stream...

Yet, if you are able to get the budget under control and start a surplus, then the economic collapses won't hurt the government so bad.

It may not look good overall. But there needs to be some kind of control forced upon our elected officials when it comes to spending.

[cleller]

How about the 48% that pay nothing...where the F is their "fair share?"

Heck yeah! Everybody needs to invest in this fiasco, even if in a relatively small way. No one with income should pay nothing. We all need to share in the wonderful prickly feeling of oneness and belonging that paying taxes brings.

[StoopTroup]

If the 48% can do under the table deals with the middle class folks who have a little money....they will go to the wallymart and buy stuff and federal taxes will be collected at the register. You all need to understand the impact that spending has vs collecting Personal Taxes on our economy.

[olevetonahill]

Heck yeah! Everybody needs to invest in this fiasco, even if in a relatively small way. No one with income should pay nothing. We all need to share in the wonderful prickly feeling of oneness and belonging that paying taxes brings.

Yup

[soonercruiser]

As we speak...Lindsey Graham and McCain are announcing we are going over the cliff.

And bitching about the President's Pep Rally.

Graham: Hats off to the President. He won the argument for sequestration.

You would also think that when you sign deals that Congress would again pass another deal to sign. Evidently not this time so....sappstuf...it's on Congress and especially the House.

Sorry "stoop"!
It is the fault of the President who promised to bring America together...
AND PROMISED A BALANCED APPROACH!
The man is personality "imbalanced"!
He's no better than the shooter at the school....'ceptin he is shooting more people and still rubbing it in!
His action will surely kill many more people!

[soonercruiser]

And how would you propose he "lead" House Republicans? Give in to the scare tactics? If we go over the cliff, those same idiots will be begging for tax relief immediately when they previously let us all experience pain in order to protect those making above $450K. That's not something I'd want to take home to the Town Hall.

Come on Mid!
Obammer is the only one who has been making all the threats!
Duh!

[soonercruiser]

The ignorance here is just staggering. My last experience with this subject matter was in Macroeconomics, somewhere around 12 years ago. It ain't rocket science, a trilion bucks.. let's say we take it out of defense... millions of soldiers and defense contractors join the ranks of the unemployed triggering more welfare spending. Some of them earn pretty good checks, so the unemployment costs would be staggering. 1 trillion in cuts there = (just making up a number for argument's sake) 500 billion in new spending on entitlements.

Or look at it from a Republican's standpoint, cut welfare? Okay, you now have millions of people who are literally homeless. They're not going to like that very much, so you're going to end up a lot more crime (even the Romans understood bread and circuses for the masses). In fact, this is the very sort of crime which in other countries in years past, has led to successful armed rebellion. Further, those folks on welfare spend their money. A study published by the FDA showed that for every federal dollar awarded in the SNAP program, $1.79 (or so) worth of economic activity occurs. So the consequence, besides possible armed rebellion, would be Dollar General would close, thousands of jobs there, Wal Marts and grocery stores would see huge dips in revenue. Subsidized housing is gone? A lot of landlords are going to go belly up and multifamily rental rates would plummet as would conditions. People would literally starve in the darkness.

Cuts are not the answer. Freezing spending where it is right now and then growing out of the deficit would work. Adding some cost control provisions to things like the prescription drug program for seniors (like every other country in the civilized world) would be a good way to preserve Medicare. Moving soldiers back home so that the dollars spent on them could grow the economy would be smart. Start treating China as an economic rival. Stop giving our companies breaks for locating plants overseas. Free trade is not fair trade, etc.

If there are any cuts, do it at a time when the economy can actually absorb the lost spending, not at a time when we already are looking at huge unemployment and slow growth. This is really basic stuff people.

The ignorance in this post is staggering, Mid!
This is exactly the Demoncratic approach over the last several decades that has gotten us where wea re!

[soonercruiser]

Reconfigure military spending to where it most benefits the domestic economy. Purchasing uniforms from China? WTF is that?? Stop that stupid **** now and if we're going to have to live with this military industrial complex, make it a benefit to the people supporting it rather than a benefactor to foreign companies.

INSANITY!
Complete insanity from the Left!

[soonercruiser]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/obama-fiscal-cliff-remarks_n_2388980.html

I rest my case...

But his midday press conference, with a group of middle-class Americans looking on, was not without a bit of bravado as well. Obama took multiple shots at Congress for its clumsiness in negotiations and insisted that he'd demand more tax hikes if the legislative body used the impending debt ceiling standoff to demand spending cuts.

In the process, the president irked several Republican aides, who suggested that the entire fiscal cliff deal had been complicated because of his tone and criticism.

“Potus just moved the goalpost again. Significantly. This is new,” tweeted a top aide to McConnell.

Doug Heye, a spokesman for House Majority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), tweeted, “If Obama's goal was to harm the process and make going over the cliff more likely, he's succeeding.” Another Cantor spokesperson said, “So....I'm confused....does POTUS want a deal or not? Because all those jabs at Congress certainly sounded like a smack in the face to me.

This, Phil, was the point of my original post!
I really believe that Obammer are his minions are sooooo evil, that is what they planned all along!
Never before in history a President so devisive!

[soonercruiser]

You wait until the last day of the year and don't expect to be criticized?

Seriously....get a shrink.

The House has passed several bills addressing the issues!
The Senate (Demoncrats and Reid) have not even allowed a vote!
The Senate has not passed a budget in almost 4 years!
And you say......????

The Senate, Demoncrats, and Obammer had no intention to compromise!
Otherwise, it would have been a done deal months ago!
They needed all the last minute theatrics.
That is Obammer's MO!

Remember...he's an expert at voting "Not Present"!
This has merely carried over to his Presidency...in a total lack of leadership of the country, as a whole.

[cleller]

A man can get discouraged many times but he is not a failure until he begins to blame somebody else and stops trying.

--John Burroughs, American naturalist.

Blame is a lazy man's wages.

--Danish proverb.

[TitoMorelli]

A man can get discouraged many times but he is not a failure until he begins to blame somebody else and stops trying.

--John Burroughs, American naturalist.

Blame is a lazy man's wages.

--Danish proverb.

"The buck stops here"


--Harry Truman


"The blame ducking starts here"


--Barack Obama

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

"The buck stops here"


--Harry Truman


"The blame ducking starts here"


--Barack Obama


"I suck America dry"
-Barack H. Obama

"Wait, don't leave. You won't believe what's next
-Barack H. Obama

[StoopTroup]

Dow 13,000 12/31/2012

[Midtowner]

The ignorance in this post is staggering, Mid!
This is exactly the Demoncratic approach over the last several decades that has gotten us where wea re!

Oh bull****. Tell me how you take 1 trillion dollars out of the economy and keep growing.

[StoopTroup]

Oh bull****. Tell me how you take 1 trillion dollars out of the economy and keep growing.

:D

http://pandodaily.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/pinocchio.jpg

[diverdog]

This, Phil, was the point of my original post!
I really believe that Obammer are his minions are sooooo evil, that is what they planned all along!
Never before in history a President so devisive!

You really need to lay off the booze. Your post have gotten to be comical and your lack of historical knowledge is shameful given the level of your education. This country has seen a whole lot worse. This budget deal does not even rank in the top 50.

[nutinbutdust]

The House has passed several bills addressing the issues!
The Senate (Demoncrats and Reid) have not even allowed a vote!
The Senate has not passed a budget in almost 4 years!
And you say......????

The Senate, Demoncrats, and Obammer had no intention to compromise!
Otherwise, it would have been a done deal months ago!
They needed all the last minute theatrics.
That is Obammer's MO!

Remember...he's an expert at voting "Not Present"!
This has merely carried over to his Presidency...in a total lack of leadership of the country, as a whole.

The House already succeeded in passing its “Plan A” back in August: H.R. 8. That bill would extend all current tax rates for one year, while committing to comprehensive tax reform in 2013. It passed the House on a rock solid 256-171 vote, with 19 Democrats joining 237 Republicans.

The Senate has taken no action on the bill. I don't understand why the Republicans didn't call out Reid on this before Christmas. Instead they have just been taking their beating like a stepchild.

[LiveLaughLove]

Obama has been nothing but a Chicago politician since day one of his political career.

The laugher is that the lapdog media actually tried to get us to believe that he would be the great uniter.

Lol, those guys are such comedians.

[SCOUT]

You really need to lay off the booze. Your post have gotten to be comical and your lack of historical knowledge is shameful given the level of your education. This country has seen a whole lot worse. This budget deal does not even rank in the top 50.
Sure the country has been a lot worse. Has it been more divisive?

[LiveLaughLove]

Sure the country has been a lot worse. Has it been more divisive?

Don't know about the country, but we certainly haven't had a president more divisive, with the possible exception of FDR pre WW II.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Sure the country has been a lot worse. Has it been more divisive?this is a redo of the FDR years, but without the Dust Bowl. Obear's not eligible for a 3rd term, since it's now illegal, but (wink) we know about that little hurdle. A next World War to get us back into economic re-emergence may not be as easy on the USA as the one was in the 1940's

[cleller]

It seems like its been constant pandemonium for the last 4 years, yet there is such defense of the status quo.

If you saw this type of instability in a pack of dogs, or a pride of lions, the reasons would be clear to all. Weak leadership.

[diverdog]

Sorry "stoop"!
It is the fault of the President who promised to bring America together...
AND PROMISED A BALANCED APPROACH!
The man is personality "imbalanced"!
He's no better than the shooter at the school....'ceptin he is shooting more people and still rubbing it in!
His action will surely kill many more people!

So the Republicans played no part in this divisiveness? Like Limbaugh saying he does not wish the President success, or the Republican shouting out liar during the state of the union, Mitch McConnell saying that he must do everything he can to defeat the President, the constant threats of Republican filibusters? I could go on.

And your last part of your rant is way out of line.

[Midtowner]

Still no answer on how to take a trillion dollars out of the economy and keep it going? Come on guys.

[LiveLaughLove]

So the Republicans played no part in this divisiveness? Like Limbaugh saying he does not wish the President success, or the Republican shouting out liar during the state of the union, Mitch McConnell saying that he must do everything he can to defeat the President, the constant threats of Republican filibusters? I could go on.

And your last part of your rant is way out of line.



You could go on, but it would be just more hysteria on your part.

Remind me of which office Limbaugh was elected. Forget that you are taking him out of context, just tell me what legislative power he has.

He WAS lying when he was said that to. He also invited the SCOTUS so he could lecture them to their faces. Remember that heart warming gesture of friendship? No you probably think the judges forced their way in and threw popcorn during the speech.

We've been over the McConnell thing numerous times and once more you are taking him completely out of context. Even your left wing media types know the rest of what McConnell said. But continue the hysteria by all means. Poor old Barack. They just don't like him cause he's black.

It couldn't be his my way our the highway approach to his decidedly leftist politics. Nah, couldn't be.

[diverdog]

You could go on, but it would be just more hysteria on your part.

Remind me of which office Limbaugh was elected. Forget that you are taking him out of context, just tell me what legislative power he has.

He WAS lying when he was said that to. He also invited the SCOTUS so he could lecture them to their faces. Remember that heart warming gesture of friendship? No you probably think the judges forced their way in and threw popcorn during the speech.

We've been over the McConnell thing numerous times and once more you are taking him completely out of context. Even your left wing media types know the rest of what McConnell said. But continue the hysteria by all means. Poor old Barack. They just don't like him cause he's black.

It couldn't be his my way our the highway approach to his decidedly leftist politics. Nah, couldn't be.

Bullchit. Out of context...right. And to sit and say Limbaugh does not carry a lot of sway in the Republican Party is a joke. The only way you guys will be happy is if Obama adopted 100% of the Republican agenda. And why would he do that?

BTW this deal was done for weeks. It was nothing more than political show for the Tea Party trying to show they did something.

[Turd_Ferguson]

You could go on, but it would be just more hysteria on your part.

Remind me of which office Limbaugh was elected. Forget that you are taking him out of context, just tell me what legislative power he has.

He WAS lying when he was said that to. He also invited the SCOTUS so he could lecture them to their faces. Remember that heart warming gesture of friendship? No you probably think the judges forced their way in and threw popcorn during the speech.

We've been over the McConnell thing numerous times and once more you are taking him completely out of context. Even your left wing media types know the rest of what McConnell said. But continue the hysteria by all means. Poor old Barack. They just don't like him cause he's black.

It couldn't be his my way our the highway approach to his decidedly leftist politics. Nah, couldn't be.


Pwnt

[sappstuf]

Yeah, I'll admit the Dems drink their own koolaid as much as the Republicans drink theirs. Freezing is not THAT unreasonable.

It is to the Dems...

[diverdog]

Still no answer on how to take a trillion dollars out of the economy and keep it going? Come on guys.

The real answer is that you can't.

[okie52]

Still no answer on how to take a trillion dollars out of the economy and keep it going? Come on guys.

What ****ing trillion are you railing about?

[diverdog]

It is to the Dems...

And the Republicans.

[diverdog]

What ****ing trillion are you railing about?

I think he is talking about the gap between revenue and expenditures. The deficit.

[XingTheRubicon]

Still no answer on how to take a trillion dollars out of the economy and keep it going? Come on guys, the Repug circle jerk club has got to have an answer!

Still waiting on an answer on how borrowing a trillion dollars from China so we can "give" it to more and more overpaid fed workers, lower middle class people who want a nicer car, people on unemployment for a year and a half watching netflix, and the ever growing poor population, so they can, in turn, spend it...and call it "commerce."

[diverdog]

Still waiting on answer oh how borrowing a trillion dollars from China so we can "give" it to more and more overpaid fed workers, lower middle class people who want a nicer car, people on unemployment for a year and a half watching netflix, and the ever growing poor population, so they can, in turn, spend it...and call it "commerce."

China is not even our top lender. Most of the debt is owed to ourselves.

[Midtowner]

Still waiting on answer oh how borrowing a trillion dollars from China so we can "give" it to more and more overpaid fed workers, lower middle class people who want a nicer car, people on unemployment for a year and a half watching netflix, and the ever growing poor population, so they can, in turn, spend it...and call it "commerce."

How isn't it commerce? How doesn't it grow the economy?

I would expect you to not say such stupid things.

[XingTheRubicon]

How isn't it commerce? How doesn't it grow the economy?

I would expect you to not say such stupid things.

It is technically commerce, but are you not able to see that it's a devastating way to get it?

[XingTheRubicon]

China is not even our top lender. Most of the debt is owed to ourselves.

Almost zero importance to the topic at hand.

[sappstuf]

And the Republicans.

You are saying that Tea Party Repubs would not freeze spending if they had a chance?

Silly position.

On the other hand, I have shown numerous occasions of the Dems outright lying about SS and it causing deficits.

Lying about SS is a silly position as well, but I haven't seen one Dem on this board reject the blatant lying by the Dems on that matter.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

You are saying that Tea Party Repubs would not freeze spending if they had a chance?

Silly position.

On the other hand, I have shown numerous occasions of the Dems outright lying about SS and it causing deficits.

Lying about SS is a silly position as well, but I haven't seen one Dem on this board reject the blatant lying by the Dems on that matter.

I'm registered as a Democrat, although I consider myself a card-carrying CATO libertarian. The Harry Reid and the Democrats are lying. SS is actuarily unsound. Today's young workers, on average, will get screwed. Those born before 1964 or so, on average, benefit.

[LiveLaughLove]

Bullchit. Out of context...right. And to sit and say Limbaugh does not carry a lot of sway in the Republican Party is a joke. The only way you guys will be happy is if Obama adopted 100% of the Republican agenda. And why would he do that?

BTW this deal was done for weeks. It was nothing more than political show for the Tea Party trying to show they did something.

Not sure which one of the two out of context statements are bullchit to you, but let's look at them.

First Rush is no more the head of the Republicans than Olberman or Matthews are of the Dems. To think they get marching orders from Rush is just stupid. Congressional Republicans would be a far more aggressive and conservative group if they did. He is as much a thorn in their sides as anyone's. But you have no clue about it, outside of what you read on the HuffPo or DU.

Rush had said he wanted Obama to fail, because he wants liberalism to fail and Obama is about more and more liberalism. This has been twisted by the media to mean Rush said he wants the country to fail. That is absurd. Since when did the President equate to the country? Only in the Obama regime. Wanting Obama to fail is not the same as wanting the country to fail. It's wanting liberalism to fail and not grow. So definitely out of context.

McConnell statement in the interview where he said it.


NJ: You’ve been studying the history of presidents who lost part or all of Congress in their first term. Why?
McConnell: In the last 100 years, three presidents suffered big defeats in Congress in their first term and then won reelection: Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and the most recent example, Bill Clinton. I read a lot of history anyway, but I am trying to apply those lessons to current situations in hopes of not making the same mistakes.
NJ: What have you learned?
McConnell: After 1994, the public had the impression we Republicans overpromised and underdelivered. We suffered from some degree of hubris and acted as if the president was irrelevant and we would roll over him. By the summer of 1995, he was already on the way to being reelected, and we were hanging on for our lives.
NJ: What does this mean now?
McConnell: We need to be honest with the public. This election is about them, not us. And we need to treat this election as the first step in retaking the government. We need to say to everyone on Election Day, “Those of you who helped make this a good day, you need to go out and help us finish the job.”
NJ: What’s the job?
McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
NJ: Does that mean endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?
McConnell: If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him.
NJ: What are the big issues?
McConnell: It is possible the president’s advisers will tell him he has to do something to get right with the public on his levels of spending and [on] lowering the national debt. If he were to heed that advice, he would, I imagine, find more support among our conference than he would among some in the Senate in his own party. I don’t want the president to fail; I want him to change. So, we’ll see. The next move is going to be up to him.
NJ: What will you seek from the president on the tax issue?
McConnell: At the very least, I believe we should extend all of the Bush tax cuts. And I prefer to describe this as keeping current tax policy. It’s been on the books for 10 years. Now, how long that [extension] is, is something we can discuss. It was clear his position was not [favored] among all Senate Democrats. They had their own divisions. I don’t think those divisions are going to be any less in November and December.

This interview was just after the Republicans won the midterms in the House. McConnell was clearly talking about the fact that the voters had just rejected Obama's agenda to a point and asked the Republicans to lead one house of Congress.

He also clearly said he doesn't want Obama to fail. He wanted him to compromise. If he was unwilling to compromise, then he would work to make him a one term President. So once again, clearly out of context to what liberals try to make McConnells statement mean. But you knew that.

Lastly, Obama wants 100% of his agenda too. I fail to see where one side is bad because they want their agenda 100% and the other is somehow altruistic by wanting 100% of theirs.

The Republicans have repeatedly made offers. They even voted on a bill in the House and passed it a few months back. The Dem led Senate nothing. The WH nothing. But in your eyes the Republicans are stonewalling. Riiiggghht.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It seems like its been constant pandemonium for the last 4 years, yet there is such defense of the status quo.

If you saw this type of instability in a pack of dogs, or a pride of lions, the reasons would be clear to all. Weak leadership.Socialism/Totalitarianism IS weak leadereship, AT BEST.

[FaninAma]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that this Fiscal Cliff is the problem of the POTUS. He wasn't the one that signed a Grover Norquist Agreement to not increase taxes. He hasn't ever painted himself into a corner. It was the Republicans banking on getting power in the WH in 2012 and continuing to use Filibusters to hold things up.

The President...if you are listening....is staying in DC waiting for the House and Senate to agree to a deal that meets or prevents our Country from going over the Fiscal Cliff. He hasn't wavered. He hasn't made them offers. He's waiting on them. He told them what he can agree to. They have yet to pass anything for him to sign. He hasn't ever had an agreement in front of him to sign.

So...who is lying?

It's not the POTUS.
Sycophantic suckup.

The Republicans suck. I am done with them because they lack a spine. Having said that I must now say how I have no respect for people like you who are unwilling to objectively judge the politicians they support. It indicates that they expect their politicians to selectively benefit those who voted for them to the detriment of the entire country.

[FaninAma]

Hell....these days....it's taught in HS.
You are truly an idiot if you believe the government actually can tax and spend the country into prosperity. The government produces nothing. It taxes and redistributes. That's why any GDP that includes government spending is phony.

[FaninAma]

Your taxes just went up...funny as hell.
Do you not give a **** about your kids? I don't care that my taxes will go up. I am fine with paying more taxes so my kids don't have a $20 Trillion dollar deficit sitting on their shoulders when they leave college and try to start a career. But I am smart enough to realize that nothing will slow down the deficit growth without spending cuts and entitlement reforms.

Your lack of criticism for the Democrats lack of will to cut spending pisses me off and makes me despise you as a person. I do take this **** personally because it affects my kids and I would tell you the same thing to your face.

[diverdog]

You are saying that Tea Party Repubs would not freeze spending if they had a chance?

Silly position.

On the other hand, I have shown numerous occasions of the Dems outright lying about SS and it causing deficits.

Lying about SS is a silly position as well, but I haven't seen one Dem on this board reject the blatant lying by the Dems on that matter.

Are you going to sit here and tell me that they would cut defense? Ryan's plan was shown to actually increase the deficit. So no I don't think they would freeze spending. There is absolutely nothing in the history of the Republican party that would suggest you are right.

[sappstuf]

Are you going to sit here and tell me that they would cut defense? Ryan's plan was shown to actually increase the deficit. So no I don't think they would freeze spending. There is absolutely nothing in the history of the Republican party that would suggest you are right.


http://www.teapartypatriots.org/2012/12/even-defense-spending-can-be-cut-2/

Guess they would.

[soonercruiser]

So the Republicans played no part in this divisiveness? Like Limbaugh saying he does not wish the President success, or the Republican shouting out liar during the state of the union, Mitch McConnell saying that he must do everything he can to defeat the President, the constant threats of Republican filibusters? I could go on.

And your last part of your rant is way out of line.

You said that, not me, Diver!
Limbaugh is at least honest....something OBummer should emulate.
I too wish BHO lack of success on every Constitution busting, socialistic, economy destroying effort he makes!
What's wrong with opposing socialism?

[soonercruiser]

I'm registered as a Democrat, although I consider myself a card-carrying CATO libertarian. The Harry Reid and the Democrats are lying. SS is actuarily unsound. Today's young workers, on average, will get screwed. Those born before 1964 or so, on average, benefit.

This truth! ^^^
This is one area where most of us old farts will give a little, if true reform and solvency are the outcome.
"Hillary" is the only "lock box" in the Dem Party!
:panda:

[soonercruiser]

Are you going to sit here and tell me that they would cut defense? Ryan's plan was shown to actually increase the deficit. So no I don't think they would freeze spending. There is absolutely nothing in the history of the Republican party that would suggest you are right.

So whose doin' the numbers on that one Diver? The Dem Nat Comm.; Huff&Puff Post???
There are "lies, damn lies, and then CBO statistics"! I'll bet that the CBO would actually have trouble coming up with good numbers, even after the $$ is spent!
How often do we need to see this from the Left?

[StoopTroup]

So whose doin' the numbers on that one Diver? The Dem Nat Comm.; Huff&Puff Post???
There are "lies, damn lies, and then CBO statistics"! I'll bet that the CBO would actually have trouble coming up with good numbers, even after the $$ is spent!
How often do we need to see this from the Left?

I think the American People added it up based on the GOP's Lack of Information back on 11-6-2012.

[hawaii 5-0]

Luv all the squirming.....

Whatda be the icing if the Repubs in the House cut their own throats and passed the Bill.

Then Obama DOESN'T sign the Bill 'cause the $400K limit isn't what he campaigned on.

5-0

[Turd_Ferguson]

Luv all the squirming.....

Whatda be the icing if the Repubs in the House cut their own throats and passed the Bill.

Then Obama DOESN'T sign the Bill 'cause the $400K limit isn't what he campaigned on.

5-0

Yeah, cause we all know he does everything he campaigned on.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah, cause we all know he does everything he campaigned on.

Especially that 1000 points of light thing.

[FaninAma]

Luv all the squirming.....

Whatda be the icing if the Repubs in the House cut their own throats and passed the Bill.

Then Obama DOESN'T sign the Bill 'cause the $400K limit isn't what he campaigned on.

5-0
I'd actually laugh my *** off at Boehner and his spineless minions.

But Ovama. doesn't have that much character.

[FaninAma]

BTW Stoop, quit avoiding the question. Does it bother you at all that your kids(if you have any) will be the ones that pay the price of uncontrolled deficit spending understanding that deficit spending will not be controlled without entitlement reform?

if you think it can be done with tax raises alone please elaborate the rates and which income groups should be hit in order to raise enough money to control the deficit.

[XingTheRubicon]

How isn't it commerce? How doesn't it grow the economy?

I would expect you to not say such stupid things.


It is technically commerce, but are you not able to see that it's a devastating way to get it?


That's what I thought.

[StoopTroup]

BTW Stoop, quit avoiding the question. Does it bother you at all that your kids(if you have any) will be the ones that pay the price of uncontrolled deficit spending understanding that deficit spending will not be controlled without entitlement reform?

if you think it can be done with tax raises alone please elaborate the rates and which income groups should be hit in order to raise enough money to control the deficit.

It bothered me. It's why I didn't vote for GWB in his 2nd term. He lied. We didn't pay for the wars and we are all paying for it. Folks call Bill Clinton "Der Slick Meister" but GWB and his Administration put us on this near Depression. You guys all hang this BS on the fact that our Kids will be stuck with this stuff and that the Dems are the ones that are at fault for it all. It's both parties that are at fault. If most Americans didn't think it wasn't true....there would have been a Republican in the Executive Branch back in 2008 and in 2012.

There's no doubt you have some valid economic and Monetary views. It just doesn't mean you are right about who should be in power and who is going to fix all of this.

[FaninAma]

It bothered me. It's why I didn't vote for GWB in his 2nd term. He lied. We didn't pay for the wars and we are all paying for it. Folks call Bill Clinton "Der Slick Meister" but GWB and his Administration put us on this near Depression. You guys all hang this BS on the fact that our Kids will be stuck with this stuff and that the Dems are the ones that are at fault for it all. It's both parties that are at fault. If most Americans didn't think it wasn't true....there would have been a Republican in the Executive Branch back in 2008 and in 2012.

There's no doubt you have some valid economic and Monetary views. It just doesn't mean you are right about who should be in power and who is going to fix all of this.

No, I am not always right but I do understand that Obama will never, ever take any serious actions to cut or reform entitlements and thus I understand that the deficit will continue to grow until it becomes impossible to finance our debt....just like what is happening in Europe.

The differnce between me and you is that I am not such a partisan idealogue that I will follow a personality blindly regardless of his actions. I detest Bush and the Neocons. They are sheep in wolves clothing. If you have any criticism of Obama lets hear it. If not then don't lecture the idealogues on the right becuase that makes you worse than them. It makes you a hypocrite.

[StoopTroup]

No, I am not always right but I do understand that Obama will never, ever take any serious actions to cut or reform entitlements and thus I understand that the deficit will continue to grow until it becomes impossible to finance our debt....just like what is happening in Europe.

The differnce between me and you is that I am not such a partisan idealogue that I will follow a personality blindly regardless of his actions. I detest Bush and the Neocons. They are sheep in wolves clothing. If you have any criticism of Obama lets hear it. If not then don't lecture the idealogues on the right becuase that makes you worse than them. It makes you a hypocrite.

No....Just a Moderate/Centralist

[cleller]

It seems to me that Obama has held himself apart from Congress more than any president in my lifetime. He really does not seem to try and work with them at all. He is constantly criticizing/chastising them, and tries to make his points thru the media or staged rallies rather than working with Congress.
If you think of past presidents, some worked well with Congress (Reagan, Clinton) but all seemed to try at least.

[StoopTroup]

And the Amendment is passed

[soonercruiser]

...passed by Demoncrats!

[StoopTroup]

...passed by Demoncrats!

Delusional

[soonercruiser]

It seems to me that Obama has held himself apart from Congress more than any president in my lifetime. He really does not seem to try and work with them at all. He is constantly criticizing/chastising them, and tries to make his points thru the media or staged rallies rather than working with Congress.
If you think of past presidents, some worked well with Congress (Reagan, Clinton) but all seemed to try at least.

Just think of Obummer this way.
Obama has never had to negotiate or deal with other people directly.
As raised, and trained others as community organizers in Chicago, he is used to bullying his way around to get what he wants.
He never sponsored a bill during his short tenure in Congress; and voted "present" more than anything else.
So, he completely lacks the skill set to negotiate or gain consensus; let alone leadership skills!
Wish he could be drafted into the Marines!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Limbaugh is at least honest....something OBummer should emulate.
I too wish BHO lack of success on every Constitution busting, socialistic, economy destroying effort he makes!
What's wrong with opposing socialism?Because of Obeary's track record, coupled with being a democrat, who espouse socialism and tyranny, Limbaugh had no difficulty predicting what Obeary would do when he became president. Only a fool or someone dishonest would criticize Limbaugh for wishing Obeary not to succeed at what he was to do as POTUS.

[sappstuf]

Well it is over.

Obama has been asking for taxes to increase back to the Clinton tax rate on the rich for 4 years and he finally got it.

Since Obama got his #1 priority passed, I assume the trillion dollar deficits will disappear overnight and mana will start falling from the sky any moment. After all, has Obama seriously talked about any other means to meaningfully reduce the deficit?

Nope. He had one card to play and he got to play it. Good luck explaining to the public why we will be in worse financial shape 3-4 years from now.

[Midtowner]

Oh the sour grapes.

If your side had its way, things would be much worse.

[diverdog]

Well it is over.

Obama has been asking for taxes to increase back to the Clinton tax rate on the rich for 4 years and he finally got it.

Since Obama got his #1 priority passed, I assume the trillion dollar deficits will disappear overnight and mana will start falling from the sky any moment. After all, has Obama seriously talked about any other means to meaningfully reduce the deficit?

Nope. He had one card to play and he got to play it. Good luck explaining to the public why we will be in worse financial shape 3-4 years from now.

Actually he did not get what he wanted and that was a rate increase on those making 250k a year and up.
There will be cuts.

[sappstuf]

Actually he did not get what he wanted and that was a rate increase on those making 250k a year and up.
There will be cuts.

He didn't get the $250K because his fellow Dems don't consider that to be "rich". But taxes did go up on the rich, which is what he asked for.

[sappstuf]

Oh the sour grapes.

If your side had its way, things would be much worse.

We will never know. What we know is that Obama got what he has been asking for, a tax increase on the rich.

You should be happy that he has solved all of our nation's fiscal problems.

When do you believe we will have that Clinton budget surplus? This year or next?

[StoopTroup]

Oh the sour grapes.

If your side had its way, things would be much worse.

All I could hear from them was "no new spending". There weren't any real answers to counter the plan that was just voted in and now all the GOP quietly slither off to a recess they don't deserve without explaining why they suddenly had a change in heart.

[StoopTroup]

We will never know. What we know is that Obama got what he has been asking for, a tax increase on the rich.

You should be happy that he has solved all of our nation's fiscal problems.

When do you believe we will have that Clinton budget surplus? This year or next?

He didn't solve all the Nations problems. The GOP House literally cleared their slate after the Cliff Vote and slithered off without getting relief to the States affected by Hurricane Sandy. Now...if you think they don't deserve any money or we shouldn't pay anything to them without first earmarking where the cuts should come from before giving them any money....

All that shows is that the Pubs will let folks down from now on if your Home is wiped out by a Wildfire or Huge Tornado or a dam was to have a complete failure and flood a City downstream.

Unbelievable that they walked away last night. Many Reps spent time thanking the House Reps for serving with them the last few sessions but are walking away from the job without doing their job up to the last minute they were paid to do so.

Charlatans

[diverdog]

He didn't get the $250K because his fellow Dems don't consider that to be "rich". But taxes did go up on the rich, which is what he asked for.


I don't think they raised taxes enough. We can't do it all at one time but the fact remains the rates are still at or near historic lows.

Yes we need to cut spending.

[okie52]

He didn't solve all the Nations problems. The GOP House literally cleared their slate after the Cliff Vote and slithered off without getting relief to the States affected by Hurricane Sandy. Now...if you think they don't deserve any money or we shouldn't pay anything to them without first earmarking where the cuts should come from before giving them any money....

All that shows is that the Pubs will let folks down from now on if your Home is wiped out by a Wildfire or Huge Tornado or a dam was to have a complete failure and flood a City downstream.

Unbelievable that they walked away last night. Many Reps spent time thanking the House Reps for serving with them the last few sessions but are walking away from the job without doing their job up to the last minute they were paid to do so.

Charlatans

People shouldn't need relief for large tornadoes and fires as insurance should have covered it.

Floods should be covered by flood insurance policies for property in flood plains or coastal regions. Most mortgage companies require all of the above situations to be covered when a mortgage is involved and when coverage is absent then force placed insurance will cover the property (at least the mtge companies interest). Same with auto's in most cases. Rewarding irresponsibility shouldn't be a taxpayer concern.

Glad to see the pubs (in this case at least) hold firm on demanding adequate evidence of
$60,000,000,000 in damages and earmarking where the money will be spent.

And sandie really only affected blue states....LOL

[StoopTroup]

But that's not what they did Okie. They just walked away without even negotiating one dollar in relief.

Also the problem they had with it wasn't earmarking where the money would be spent...it was where the money would be cut from what program? This is an event that will set a bad precedent for future tragedies.

Now...I know the folks who don't want to see Congress spend another dollar until spending cuts are made think no money should be spent but when it's your Home or your State that is affected down the road....people will wonder why Congress isn't doing something and it will be because of the precedent that is being set by the 112th GOP House.

This will leave more bad blood.

[sappstuf]

I don't think they raised taxes enough. We can't do it all at one time but the fact remains the rates are still at or near historic lows.

Yes we need to cut spending.

They just went up to 39% for the upper income, combined with state and local taxes, some are nearing 50%. That isn't high enough for you?

At what level are you comfortable taking from people 75%? 90%?

[StoopTroup]

They just went up to 39% for the upper income, combined with state and local taxes, some are nearing 50%. That isn't high enough for you?

At what level are you comfortable taking from people 75%? 90%?

What about taking from the dollars that go overseas or Bermuda or the Cayman Islands?

[okie52]

But that's not what they did Okie. They just walked away without even negotiating one dollar in relief.

Also the problem they had with it wasn't earmarking where the money would be spent...it was where the money would be cut from what program? This is an event that will set a bad precedent for future tragedies.

Now...I know the folks who don't want to see Congress spend another dollar until spending cuts are made think no money should be spent but when it's your Home or your State that is affected down the road....people will wonder why Congress isn't doing something and it will be because of the precedent that is being set by the 112th GOP House.

This will leave more bad blood.


It appears the house came back with a 27 billion counter to the senates 60 billion, both of which are well below the $90,000,000,000 asked for by the sandy states.

Given our fiscal state of affairs, every penny of new spending should be met with equal cuts.

[sappstuf]

What about taking from the dollars that go overseas or Bermuda or the Cayman Islands?

That is the thing that Dems never get.

Rich people can modify their behavior based on the tax code. Slap a luxury tax on stuff and the rich will buy from another country if it is cheaper. Raise taxes on yachts and John Kerry will berth his yacht in a different state to save money. The guy who gets killed is the guy in the upper middle class who doesn't have the resources to take advantage of the tax code. That guy gets bent over by the federal government.

The tax code is too complicated and the rich will always find the intentional or unintentional loophole and take advantage of it.

Better to simplify the tax code in a way that encourages investment and grow the pie for everyone while increasing revenues.

[Midtowner]

All I could hear from them was "no new spending". There weren't any real answers to counter the plan that was just voted in and now all the GOP quietly slither off to a recess they don't deserve without explaining why they suddenly had a change in heart.

The answer is simple, the President outsmarted them in the original fiscal cliff deals. They knew that Obama could easily afford to go over the cliff and come back with a new bill, 100% Democrat the next day and it would have to pass. Elections have consequences.

[sappstuf]

I'm registered as a Democrat, although I consider myself a card-carrying CATO libertarian. The Harry Reid and the Democrats are lying. SS is actuarily unsound. Today's young workers, on average, will get screwed. Those born before 1964 or so, on average, benefit.

You didn't get much back up for your position from the Dems on this board and you might have to de-register as a Dem, but I thank you for your honesty.

[Midtowner]

You didn't get much back up for your position from the Dems on this board and you might have to de-register as a Dem, but I thank you for your honesty.

Neither side is really going to worry about SS until it's too late. Our Republic is fundamentally flawed. The money it takes to win an election means the left cannot bear to alienate the AARP and the right cannot possibly alienate Freedomworks or the NRA. A Republic only works when you have a responsible free press, an educated voter and have a real choice. We don't. For all the good things about any given candidate, say Tom Coburn, you have to accept that no matter what his private views are on gun rights and tax hikes, he's not really free to vote his conscience. Same for folks like Harry Reid, although his electoral success can largely be blamed on the right's tendency to support radical extremists like Sharron Angle, a rumored scientologist.

[sappstuf]

Neither side is really going to worry about SS until it's too late. Our Republic is fundamentally flawed. The money it takes to win an election means the left cannot bear to alienate the AARP and the right cannot possibly alienate Freedomworks or the NRA. A Republic only works when you have a responsible free press, an educated voter and have a real choice. We don't. For all the good things about any given candidate, say Tom Coburn, you have to accept that no matter what his private views are on gun rights and tax hikes, he's not really free to vote his conscience. Same for folks like Harry Reid, although his electoral success can largely be blamed on the right's tendency to support radical extremists like Sharron Angle, a rumored scientologist.

Are both sides lying about SS or just one side? I have proven that one side have been lying repeatedly.

[Midtowner]

Are both sides lying about SS or just one side? I have proven that one side have been lying repeatedly.

Everyone knows SS is insolvent, but like most serious issues in D.C., it won't be addressed until it's already too late.

[sappstuf]

Everyone knows SS is insolvent, but like most serious issues in D.C., it won't be addressed until it's already too late.

But only one side is lying to the public about it.

[soonercruiser]

Neither side is really going to worry about SS until it's too late. Our Republic is fundamentally flawed. The money it takes to win an election means the left cannot bear to alienate the AARP and the right cannot possibly alienate Freedomworks or the NRA. A Republic only works when you have a responsible free press, an educated voter and have a real choice. We don't. For all the good things about any given candidate, say Tom Coburn, you have to accept that no matter what his private views are on gun rights and tax hikes, he's not really free to vote his conscience. Same for folks like Harry Reid, although his electoral success can largely be blamed on the right's tendency to support radical extremists like Sharron Angle, a rumored scientologist.

Duh!
Seems to me the Pugs talked a lot about it; including Ryan during the Pres. campaign; who had also written several bills addressing the issue.
But, don't expect you to remember it, when your memory is probably limited by the last 2 posted issues of the Huffington Post!
And, apparently the American people said that it wasn't impotent!

[Midtowner]

Ryan's bills never stood a chance.

[soonercruiser]

Ryan's bills never stood a chance.

"Never stood a chance"....in the Dem Senate!
:02.47-tranquillity: