Why are we , OU fans, accused of being too demanding?

[basel90]

Am hearing this from the media and other fans,and even our coaching staff , including bob. Even OU fans' love/hate relation with landry jones is a subject of amusement , given that he broke all these records. Critics think we are spoiled , unrealistic, and over demanding.
I personally think we need to be demanding as OU fans, and take a backseat to no one. This is OU and if we start accepting 10-3 seasons , we will sink to mediocracy, and this is not OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL.

I love our record in the big 12 , but I am sick of :

- losses at NC games
- losses to SEC teams
- no NC championships since 2000
- the way certain losses have transpired (we all know that game loss at the OB)

In regards to Landry jones, yes he is a good QB , and won 80 percent of his games , but hey, we were favorites in all theses games, and he lost around 80 percent of the crucial games where we were either favorites, equally matched , or slight underdogs ; KSU, notes dame, Miami, buy, Nebraska, Texas, OSU , baylor , etc.

Any thoughts ?

[normanx]

I share this attitude with you. And I suggest you put a helmet on and prepared to be blasted.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

What does fan acceptance have to do with football team performance?

[SouthFortySooner]

What does fan acceptance have to do with football team performance?

About as much as the band or cheerleaders.

[OUNASH]

I share the same attitude as well. I think if we start accepting 10-3 seasons as good years we might as well accept being middle of the road. It has been a very long dry spell between Natl Champs and I dont think we will sniff another one for quite some time.
I think people are scared to make changes to the coaching staff thinking we would fall back into the Balke years. More people learn to accept the 10-3 years due to this fact. However, I do think we are spoiled due to our history of success. We are no different than Kentucky basketball fans who expect a Championship every year. Unrealistic but a fact.
I think Stoops and company have become complacent and it shows in his coaching staff of friends and family. This coahcing staff is a shell of what it was when Bob first got here. The replacements Bob has made recently makes you scratch your head. Examples Kittle, Hueple, Kish.
Hueple should have gone to a lesser program to learn as an offensive coordinator and Venebals was over his head when Milke left the first time. (IMO) Bob has the mind set that you can plug anyone into the system and it is going to work. Doesnt work in Business and doesnt work in Football either. Dont want Bob gone, just wish he would make better choices for replacements when coaches leave.
The football we play now is not the caliber we were playing 4 years ago. The drop off has been steady and will continue until Bob makes changes to the current staff. This is showing in recruiting this year. We are getting everyones (Big Time Programs) left overs . Very bothersome. I know I am going to get balsted but fire away.

[badger]

this is not OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL.
Can you imagine how Nebraska, Miami and Notre Dame fans feel right about now? At least we're still in the hunt for the title each preseason. Those teams barely get mentioned in the title hunt anymore (notre dame this year, notwithstanding).

Now that I got that out of the way, I agree with you on much:

This is OU and if we start accepting 10-3 seasons , we will sink to mediocracy
Lol, we should call fan dictatorship "mediocracy" :)

But seriously, Texas was fine with 10-win seasons and then all of the problems that everyone else saw with them (relying on Texas recruiting, bad assistants, player entitlement) caught up with them.

Therefore, I would say that wins and losses should not determine the state of a program, but rather, everything that makes a fan embarrassed to be called a fan of a program --- the player arrests at UT? Embarrassing. The sh!tty offensive schemes that resulted in sh!t (bubble screen!) Embarrassing in a different way. It all adds up and it's something even talent/recruiting can't hide after awhile.


- losses at NC games
- losses to SEC teams
- no NC championships since 2000
- the way certain losses have transpired (we all know that game loss at the OB)
It is very telling to hear how a coach/players/etc owns up to those losses. While I was unimpressed with some responses I've heard over the years for these key program losses, there something that should spring optimism: They were so desperate to win the Fiesta Bowl versus UConn that even Kevin Wilson stayed on with the team till they did. The BCS monkey off their back was that important to that coaching staff.


we need to be demanding as OU fans, and take a backseat to no one
While some will argue that being demanding fans only matters if you have money, it matters a lot to have a fanbase that isn't complacent if you are a coach/player/etc. You can be a coach at a program like OU and make $5 million a year. You can be a player at a program like OU and have 20 bajillion sets of Nike cleats and official apparrel at your disposal. Or, you be at Southern Miss and get fired after one season... or Colorado and fired after two seasons, while players play in front of empty stadiums with crappy training facilities.

Sorry that I wrote a novel. Actually, eff it. It's Friday. Deal with it everyone

[KantoSooner]

I admit it, I'm a Chinaman, and proud. I want OU to win every game from now on, with ever increasing margins of victory until such time the rest of the planet quits playing football and just crowns OU the buttkickers of all time and goes home.

I don't see anything wrong with that attitude, but I do realize that it is very hard to maintain.

I think defenses are fundamentally mentally tougher than offenses and for that reason, I'd start with building a godzilla defense. Maybe we have started heading back that way. Hope so.

[SoonerNomad]

I made a promise to myself in 2000 that I would remember 1998 every time I start to complain about the state of the program under Coach Stoops. Is anyone "satisfied" with 10-3 seasons? No, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good seasons. Is anyone satisfied with two home losses to two of the top six teams in the country? No, but that doesn't mean the coaching staff and the players are overwhelmed or complacent.

All this fan can ask for in a program is that quality and qualified coaches are putting together teams that can compete for conference and national titles on a regular (almost annual) basis. This coaching staff and this program meet my minimalistic requirements. Is everything perfect? No. Are they winning every game? No. But Coach Stoops has re-created one of the best progams in the country to a position that if a play or two is made every year his teams can win a national title.

I look forward (without complacency) to more of the same.

[StoopTroup]

It seems to me that folks who have the OP's attitude are really saying they are unhappy with The Stoops Plan and now we have Mike and Bob here and we have another year where we get a consolation Bowl Game rather than a BCS or BCS MNC that even that isn't anything to be happy with.

What the OP and others are doing is...putting the HC and the Coaching Staff that brought us a MNC in 2000 and 3 other MNC appearances as well as all of the Big XII Conference Championships....on notice each and every year. It would also seem to me that they are also putting this years current Team, that is getting ready to play an old Conference Foe who ran off to the SEC, on notice prior to this Bowl Game on Jan 4th, 2013.

That's fine with me. It doesn't really mean anything though until all the Seniors leave and any of the other current players continue to prove to the Coaching Staff that they are ready for next year or are someone we need to replace or need to light a fire under their a$$.

All in all....it's mostly just some fans who have lost faith in Bob and his decisions as Head Coach.

Me? Bob gets to do whatever he wants, however he wants and for as long as he wants no matter what the OP or others who agree with the OP think. The only thing that might change is losing to the whorns and maybe a few Seasons with 8-5 or less winning percentage and or some Bowl Losses to ULMonroe, Northern Illinois or maybe Kent St. If that were the case...then you might see the folks in our Administration and Alumni start asking for a change or putting pressure on Bob.

[8timechamps]

Good times.

So, if you "don't accept" a 10-3 season, what do you do? Is there a form you can fill out or something?

[basel90]

I share the same attitude as well. I think if we start accepting 10-3 seasons as good years we might as well accept being middle of the road. It has been a very long dry spell between Natl Champs and I dont think we will sniff another one for quite some time.
I think people are scared to make changes to the coaching staff thinking we would fall back into the Balke years. More people learn to accept the 10-3 years due to this fact.


However, I do think we are spoiled due to our history of success. We are no different than Kentucky basketball fans who expect a Championship every year. Unrealistic but a fact.
I think Stoops and company have become complacent and it shows in his coaching staff of friends and family. This coahcing staff is a shell of what it was when Bob first got here. The replacements Bob has made recently makes you scratch your head. Examples Kittle, Hueple, Kish.
Hueple should have gone to a lesser program to learn as an offensive coordinator and Venebals was over his head when Milke left the first time. (IMO) Bob has the mind set that you can plug anyone into the system and it is going to work. Doesnt work in Business and doesnt work in Football either. Dont want Bob gone, just wish he would make better choices for replacements when coaches leave.
The football we play now is not the caliber we were playing 4 years ago. The drop off has been steady and will continue until Bob makes changes to the current staff. This is showing in recruiting this year. We are getting everyones (Big Time Programs) left overs . Very bothersome. I know I am going to get balsted but fire away.

I fully agree, bob's Coordinators don't seem to be at the caliber needed. What is worse is that no one gets fired even when a coordinator is a bust. This happy family atmosphere around his staff has to stop, we need top notch Coordinators. Look at the Alabama and LSu staff, even florida's.



I also

[basel90]

I think the Blake and schnelly years have left such a bad taste that any AC or President of OU would hesitate to ever mess with a 10-3 9-3 coach. I agree bob has restored OU' s program, but we should still demand/expect to play for a NC every year.

[badger]

Good times.

So, if you "don't accept" a 10-3 season, what do you do? Is there a form you can fill out or something?

Your complaint form is on the back of a big donation check. Otherwise, it gets trashed.

Actually, it might not. I've heard Joe C is very good about responding to fan emails. Just don't expect it to be the response that you want

[picasso]

Some idiot non OU fan called the radio in Tulsa a few months ago and said OU fans are unrealistic because if you spread our NC's out over time it doesn't amount to much per decade.
That's stupid logic when you consider we've average being in the NC game every 4 seasons under Stoops.
We should expect at least one per decade.

[8timechamps]

Your complaint form is on the back of a big donation check. Otherwise, it gets trashed.

Actually, it might not. I've heard Joe C is very good about responding to fan emails. Just don't expect it to be the response that you want

My annual donation doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme, but I was giving the university money back in the Blake era, and we certainly weren't 10-3.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Aren't we 10-2? LOL

[PLaw]

I just have two things to say and I would imagine that Bob would agree with the first and probably the second.

First, you are either on a flight plan or a glide path. You are either improving or in decline. As Bud said, everyone has the will to win at the kickoff, but only champions have the will to prepare to win.

Secondly, this is OKLAHOMA where conference championships are assumed and national championships are the goal - every year.

That is all, carry on.

Boomer

[SoonerorLater]

Aren't we 10-2? LOL

For the moment.

[BoulderSooner79]

Aren't we 10-2? LOL

I guess the OP has thrown in the towel for the Cotton Bowl.

I'm perfectly happy with 10-2 because it leads to entertaining indignation threads like this one when nothing else is going on. Carry on.

[goingoneight]

It's not the expectation to be good and compete for a championship that makes people talk about us like angry, starving monsters. It's the cheap and very personal shots at great players like Landry Jones who have committed the awful crime of representing the university in a first class way. It's the morons who call into Bob Stoops's Call-In Show to talk **** about coaches and players on live television. It's the people who want Stoops to be a snake like Les Miles and Urban Meyer just to get over that hump. It's the people who boo the play calling in our own stadium. It's the people who would rather point out how we should have lost instead of being grateful that we won. We are not having this conversation right now if the Cotton Bowl was the first round of a playoff with a BIG 12 Title under our belts. Think about that.

[StoopTroup]

Good times.

So, if you "don't accept" a 10-3 season, what do you do? Is there a form you can fill out or something?

We should create a form in this thread that they can download, print, fill out and then mail USPS to the University.

[8timechamps]

It's not the expectation to be good and compete for a championship that makes people talk about us like angry, starving monsters. It's the cheap and very personal shots at great players like Landry Jones who have committed the awful crime of representing the university in a first class way. It's the morons who call into Bob Stoops's Call-In Show to talk **** about coaches and players on live television. It's the people who want Stoops to be a snake like Les Miles and Urban Meyer just to get over that hump. It's the people who boo the play calling in our own stadium. It's the people who would rather point out how we should have lost instead of being grateful that we won. We are not having this conversation right now if the Cotton Bowl was the first round of a playoff with a BIG 12 Title under our belts. Think about that.

This argument gets tiring, but I'd love to spit out what you just said every time it's brought up.

Excellent.

[goingoneight]

I seem to remember some predicting 5-6 losses earlier this year. So... 10-2 definitely doesn't measure up.

[12]

I'm failing to see why expecting to NOT LOSE A SINGLE GAME is a bad thing.

It is what fans of teams that have been there DO!

That said, we need to be realistic. We're still a great program.

[8timechamps]

I'm failing to see why expecting to NOT LOSE A SINGLE GAME is a bad thing.

It is what fans of teams that have been there DO!

I don't have a problem with that. It's when that is separated from reality...then I just sit in amazement.

[12]

Reality and expectations are very close with us.

[12]

I think almost all Sooners understand the magic of winning it all. If you are old enough to have witnessed Barry win (and lose) them, the dismal funk between, and the revival with Bob, realism is there.

[StoopTroup]

In the last 5 years....V Tech, Cincy, Alabama, Oregon and OKLAHOMA are the only ones in College Footbal to have 10 or more wins each year. Pretty good Company considering Bama has been so hard to beat and keep out of the MNC. I think we should quit bitching and realize it's a matter of time before Bob and OUr guys are hoisting up another Crystal Ball.

Not only above but....

Oklahoma has the most 10+ win seasons (32) and 11+ win seasons (20) of any program, as well as the fewest losing seasons (12) of any program.

[Stooper]

Amen, Stoop. A great coaching job by Stoops this year all considering. A fumble away from 11-1. We are consistently in the hunt for a NC late into the season. My expectations are high, but I don't loose sight of reality. I am truly grateful for Bob Stoops and the consistency of winning he is bringing. 11-2 with a conference championship IS acceptable.

[Collier11]

Bob Stoops has gone to 4 natl title games in 13 years, if you think we can do better in this system (and no we arent getting Nick Saban or Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll the cheater) then by all means, expect more

[MyT Oklahoma]

I for one can never eat enough rice. I hope and expect for us to win each and every game. However, I don't lose any sleep about what actually happens that I cannot control.

I don't blame the players when we lose. I do cuss at the coaches though. But I get over our losses a lot faster than I used to 20 years ago.

College football is just a game. It's a lot more fun when you win than when you lose. But it's still just a game. Enjoy it and be proud of what we have accomplished (and always keep your expectations high).

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It's great fun pulling for a program like OU,which is a latter addition to the elite club.(We did pretty well in the late 30's, but didn't become established as a top tier program til Bud came along in the late 40's. Already solidly esconced with tradition were usuc, bamer and los domer. To this day they are the only programs with more NC's than us. Our biggest handicap is that we don't have enough in-state talent to do it without effectively raiding other states for our players. The only state in our recruiting area with enough quality football players to supply us is tx, and WITH THE SCHOLARSHIP LIMITS EACH TEAM NOW HAS, the chore is even tougher to get the necessary talent to stay at the top.

Well, more important is that it is still just a game, and is out of control of the fans. So, to take it actually seriously is a bad thing. It's just part of our lives, and is certainly no reflection on how we fare as individuals, both in measureable ways, and in how we view ourselves, and the way our lives are being lead.

[basel90]

No, I think we will beat aggies, but is that the goal? We want a NC

[Jason White's Third Knee]

There is parity in football mate than ever. Barry, god bless him, had advantages that Bob can't even sniff.

Key injuries hampered OU in the Florida NC and the LSU NC. We had a spectacular offensive line for just about a decade.

I think we should expect to have a top flight program. I like that Bob also runs a squeaky clean ship and kicks players off the team regardless of their blue chip status. Think our buddies in the SEC will do that? Les? Nick? Irvin Meyers?

I have been embarrassed by some of the incredibly stupid garbage that comes out of the mouths of Sooner fans the past few years regarding Landry Jones. I am glad that he is graduating so that I won't have to hear the utter ridiculousness, ripping on a great kid.

I think Jason White is great. I thinkHuepel is great. But LJ is far superior to both of these guys and doesn't get his due. Hell, it ain't even close. LJ has had bad passes. But people want to string his *** up and say he sucks? He lacks courage? It's mind numbing.

Only Huepel won a NC. Jason White lost (he was injured against LSU). Bradford lost (Murray was out).

I got to go to one game this year. I took my kids to their first home game in Norman. Some toolbag was ripping on Huepel the WHOLE game for his play calling. Ripping on OSU players while they were injured, etc. I had to explain to my kids that that guy's behavior was pathetic and he needed to be quiet. Then I apologized to the Pokes in my section for the idiot yelling all of that.

Yeah. Most of our fans are great. I look forward to an era that has our fans being better sports with better things to say about our awesome, honorable athletes.

[Widescreen]

In the last 5 years....V Tech, Cincy, Alabama, Oregon and OKLAHOMA are the only ones in College Footbal to have 10 or more wins each year.

Since when is 8-5 a 10 win season? Also, Va Tech went 7-6 this year. Also, Cincy went 4-8 in 2010. Other than that, your point is fantastic.

[MsProudSooner]

There is a huge difference between having high expectations and being the proverbial 'Chinaman'. We all have high expectations at the beginning of each season. But you might be a 'Chinaman' if:

1) You bitched and moaned about the outcome of any of the seasons where the team suffered more than the usual season ending injuries.
2) You read all the preseason information about this year's team and you knew that the defensive front 7 was going to be a weak point - yet you are outraged that the defensive front 7 was actually a weak point.
3) You bitch and moan about recruiting in early November.
4) You think that we should never have a 'down' year. That's OK for every other team but it's just not acceptable for us.
5) You ever used the phrase, "That's UNACCEPTABLE!"
6) You ever accused other posters of 'accepting mediocrity'.
7) You watch bowl games like the VTech game yesterday and don't count your blessings that we have the offense that we have.
8) You don't adjust your expectations for a season if the team loses multiple skill players for the year or practically the entire offensive line for the year.

Being a Chinaman is not a good thing.

[5noubus]

I'm failing to see why expecting to NOT LOSE A SINGLE GAME is a bad thing.

It is what fans of teams that have been there DO!

That said, we need to be realistic. We're still a great program.

This.^^
What kind of pep talk would it be for a coach to stand up and say -" hey guys this is probably one of the ones we are going to lose but let's give it a shot?"
Why would we not think we should go to the nc every year?
We pay our coach a lot of$$.
We have a good, clean program
I don't get why we are expected to be in the nc race every year by sorts analysis , but when we expect it we are spoiled?

[MsProudSooner]

This.^^
What kind of pep talk would it be for a coach to stand up and say -" hey guys this is probably one of the ones we are going to lose but let's give it a shot?"
Why would we not think we should go to the nc every year?
We pay our coach a lot of$$.
We have a good, clean program
I don't get why we are expected to be in the nc race every year by sorts analysis , but when we expect it we are spoiled?

We aren't coaches. We are fans. It's the coaches job to inspire the team to do their very best every game and instill confidence in them. When they convince their team they can beat anyone, they are doing their job. When fans expect their team to win every game, no matter the opponent or circumstances - and then bitch because they don't - they just sound arrogant and spoiled.

[FirstandGoal]

There is a huge difference between having high expectations and being the proverbial 'Chinaman'. We all have high expectations at the beginning of each season. But you might be a 'Chinaman' if:

1) You bitched and moaned about the outcome of any of the seasons where the team suffered more than the usual season ending injuries.
2) You read all the preseason information about this year's team and you knew that the defensive front 7 was going to be a weak point - yet you are outraged that the defensive front 7 was actually a weak point.
3) You bitch and moan about recruiting in early November.
4) You think that we should never have a 'down' year. That's OK for every other team but it's just not acceptable for us.
5) You ever used the phrase, "That's UNACCEPTABLE!"
6) You ever accused other posters of 'accepting mediocrity'.
7) You watch bowl games like the VTech game yesterday and don't count your blessings that we have the offense that we have.
8) You don't adjust your expectations for a season if the team loses multiple skill players for the year or practically the entire offensive line for the year.

Being a Chinaman is not a good thing.

Excellent!

I would also like to add that after almost any OU loss, I avoid this place like the plague until at least Wednesday.

The reason? I like (most of) you guys on a weekly basis, and I hate it when I get angry with fellow fans over a completely ridiculous overreaction to a loss. Its been very bad the last few years with the Landry haters. Those kinds of posts make me want to neg anyone participating to Bolivia and I would much rather take the high road in most situations rather than get down and dirty with arguing and name calling.

Being demanding can be positive if it results in a person bringing forth a better product. If I were never demanding of myself I would have never completed college, or worked hard at a tough job, ran my first 5K, or been able to raise my kids by myself. Setting high expectations is normal for the human race and its the reason why so many advances have been made in technology, medecine, and other critical areas of life.

Does someone who earn 5 million per year need to be held up to higher standards than someone who earns a fraction of that? Hell yeah they do. On the flip side of that however is the fact that its not humanly possible to control every aspect of every game (injuries to key players at inopportune times, assistants being raided by other programs, 18-22yo boys acting stupid, bad karma--getting "ducked")

I don't have an answer as to why we haven't won a title since '00. It hurts that we've been so close only to fall short in many different ways, but I still would have rather been there fighting and losing than to have never been there at all. I admit to being a bit restless now that its approaching 5 years since we've been in the title game, but I have confidence that after this small period of having a couple of "down years" we will be right there in the hunt very soon.

[5noubus]

I think that is the key to the whole debate. I do expect to win every game . I think my team is the best . I expect a shot at the nc every year.
But I'm not going to bitch and moan about a 10-2 season . I'm for sure not going to demand everyone gets fired.

[SoonerInFortSmith]

In the last 5 years....V Tech, Cincy, Alabama, Oregon and OKLAHOMA are the only ones in College Footbal to have 10 or more wins each year.

Since when is 8-5 a 10 win season? Also, Va Tech went 7-6 this year. Also, Cincy went 4-8 in 2010. Other than that, your point is fantastic.

I think the stat is actually 5 out of the last 6 years.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Our offensive line has had problem after problem. The are mediocre at run blocking and they have performed pretty well at pass blocking. Lots of injuries and they are still decent. It's admirable but can't produce a champion. The Kstate game was lost largely due to the O line play... Mistakes happen. It was still close. We aren't far off from greatness. With ND we just weren't as good as they were. We have more talent. They were the most disciplined team I have seen. Great coaching.

The planets have to align just right. ND is having that kind of year.

[jkjsooner]

I'm okay with not being thrilled at 10-2 seasons but some perspective is needed. Even the best programs are going to have many more of those than 12-0 seasons.

What I don't want to see is our program shoot themselves in the foot because of unreasonable expectations. The history of college football is filled with examples of schools firing good coaches only to find their program in a downward spiral. Every powerful program has an example in their own past.

[8timechamps]

Our offensive line has had problem after problem. The are mediocre at run blocking and they have performed pretty well at pass blocking. Lots of injuries and they are still decent. It's admirable but can't produce a champion. The Kstate game was lost largely due to the O line play... Mistakes happen. It was still close. We aren't far off from greatness. With ND we just weren't as good as they were. We have more talent. They were the most disciplined team I have seen. Great coaching.

The planets have to align just right. ND is having that kind of year.

You can look back on almost any national title team and find that 'special' moment during the season that kept their title dreams alive. Usually it's a lucky bounce, but it can also be one play that saved a game. In 2000, it was Torrence Marshall's interception return in College Station. To win it all, you have to remain injury free and get that lucky break. Going undefeated in a major conference is almost impossible. Some times I think (some) Sooner fans just don't really understand how hard it is to remain a top 10 team for over a decade.

[OkieThunderLion]

Am hearing this from the media and other fans,and even our coaching staff , including bob. Even OU fans' love/hate relation with landry jones is a subject of amusement , given that he broke all these records. Critics think we are spoiled , unrealistic, and over demanding.
I personally think we need to be demanding as OU fans, and take a backseat to no one. This is OU and if we start accepting 10-3 seasons , we will sink to mediocracy, and this is not OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL.

I love our record in the big 12 , but I am sick of :

- losses at NC games
- losses to SEC teams
- no NC championships since 2000
- the way certain losses have transpired (we all know that game loss at the OB)

In regards to Landry jones, yes he is a good QB , and won 80 percent of his games , but hey, we were favorites in all theses games, and he lost around 80 percent of the crucial games where we were either favorites, equally matched , or slight underdogs ; KSU, notes dame, Miami, buy, Nebraska, Texas, OSU , baylor , etc.

Any thoughts ?

Whining.

[MichiganSooner]

I share the same attitude as well. I think if we start accepting 10-3 seasons as good years we might as well accept being middle of the road. It has been a very long dry spell between Natl Champs and I dont think we will sniff another one for quite some time.

Be clear, I don't want to accept 10-3 seasons. Sooner fans recognize the tremendous success the team has had since WWII. We like to brag it is the best in college football. Now think about reality as far as dry spells between national championships. 1956 to 1973 is 17 years. 1974 to 1985 is 11 years. 1985 to 2000 is 15 years. 2000 to the present is 12 years. Looks like we are due!! And to think we were in the championship game in 03, 04, and 08. Compare our record to anyone's in the nation.