Recruiting Dead Period

[8timechamps]

We are in the two week dead period. Coaches are allowed one call to recruits a week, otherwise no contact (or visits).

Unless someone commits, I don't expect much recruiting news until January.

[lexsooner]

Well, 8 Time, I will use this opportunity to get more free inside info from someone with lots of knowledge about the program. Is there a sense of why OU is having a hard time recruiting for DT and LB, both critical areas of need? Do you think it is because of the sheer number of competitive programs out there, so many more than in the past? I mean, in the past, we never had to recruit against W.V., KSU, OSU, or Oregon St. Any feeling that there is more cheating going on? I am darn suspicious of OSU and Baylor and their rise in sports.

Also, will our LBs be any better next year? I thought they raved about Corey Nelson a few years ago. What happened to him? He seems overhyped like Wort. Will Shannon, Franklin, and any others be able to improve the situation? They only have two commitments at LB, and the one from Texas runs a 4.9 40. What in the world?

[8timechamps]

Well, 8 Time, I will use this opportunity to get more free inside info from someone with lots of knowledge about the program. Is there a sense of why OU is having a hard time recruiting for DT and LB, both critical areas of need? Do you think it is because of the sheer number of competitive programs out there, so many more than in the past? I mean, in the past, we never had to recruit against W.V., KSU, OSU, or Oregon St. Any feeling that there is more cheating going on? I am darn suspicious of OSU and Baylor and their rise in sports.

Also, will our LBs be any better next year? I thought they raved about Corey Nelson a few years ago. What happened to him? He seems overhyped like Wort. Will Shannon, Franklin, and any others be able to improve the situation? They only have two commitments at LB, and the one from Texas runs a 4.9 40. What in the world?

Good questions, some I can speculate on...some I have no clue about.

There is no question that recruiting defensive players has become more difficult for OU. Although, it's only the front 4-7 that it's changed. As for secondary players, OU is still among the elite teams in recruiting those positions (Hatari Byrd, a DB from California is a good example of that. We'll all know his name soon). There are two reasons I think it's been somewhat of a struggle. The first reason is because of the reputation that the Big XII defenses have versus the SEC. It seems that the big name defensive tackles want to play in the SEC, because defenses are built to their specialties. The second reason may be a bit of a cop-out, but I think Venebales got away from recruiting those kind of linemen (and maybe he needed to in the Big XII), so the all-important OU coach/High School Coach relationships suffered a little.

The good news is that OU remains an elite program from a recruiting standpoint. At 99% of the other programs in the country, landing a solid 3 star recruit would be considered a big success. At OU, it feels like the team is "settling" when it happens. When OU stops routinely landing 4 star athletes, then it may be time to worry. Right now, I think things are still good, and I also like the recruits that Mike Stoops is targeting.

Yes, I think LB play will be improved next year. First, we have to get them on the field, but I think Mike will spend the off-season scheming to make that happen. The two LBs that OU has commits from are very good. Alexander is going to be a contributor, and is a huge OU fan...that always helps. Matrogiovanni (in my opinion) is the best defensive recruit OU has to date. He's a throw back LB (big, and can hit). Those two look like proto-typical Mike Stoops LBs.

Corey Nelson is a victim of the scheme. He was the kind of LB Venables wanted in his zone blitzing defense. He just hasn't fit Mike's defense...yet. I still think he's a very good LB, and we'll probably hear his name a lot next season. Same can be said for Wort, although Wort suffers from being a weak cover LB, and he's a little undersized, so he struggles getting off of good blocks. Shannon/Franklin are solid guys that will work well in a defense that stresses man coverage. I expect them to continue to grow/improve.

As for cheating, I'm sure it happens, but I'm not sure that can be attributed to the rise of some programs. College football is cyclical, and sometimes teams just play better (Oregon State is a good example). West Virginia had the perfect storm on offense this year, but could only manage a 7-5 record, they will be in pretty bad shape next year (losing a lot on that side of the ball). Some teams just benefit from very good coaching (KSU), while others benefit from a lot of new, shiny things to show recruits, like uniforms and facilities (Oregon, Oklahoma State, etc). In the end, it's still about winning, so teams like OSU are going to find it hard to maintain a high level of recruiting when they aren't winning a conference title. OU will always have tradition to sell recruits. Nothing says "come be a part of success" like showing recruits a lot of previous success.

I really like the way this class is shaping up. For the first time in a while, OU seems to be spending a lot of extra time evaluating. Some think the slower process isn't good, I happen to think it'll decrease the turn-over rate, and the players that fizzle out or aren't what they thought they would be.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

yew rite real good

[8timechamps]

yew rite real good

tHank uew. im oklahomer etucated.

[Soonerfan88]

I really like the way this class is shaping up. For the first time in a while, OU seems to be spending a lot of extra time evaluating. Some think the slower process isn't good, I happen to think it'll decrease the turn-over rate, and the players that fizzle out or aren't what they thought they would be.

I agree with the slower process and fault the coaches (Mack Brown) trying to recruit so early simply for bragging rights. They, as much as ESPiN, are responsible for creating much of the need for 'love' and entitled attitudes of many of today's HS athletes. It only makes sense to continue the evaluation through at least the early part of their senior season for most players. Yes, there will always be a few that are so talented you can safely offer early but even then, you need to make sure their attitude fits your team. Just as it is for corporations when hiring individuals, sometimes it isn't about who is the most talented but who fits the culture and has the best chemistry with the existing team. When personal contact with recruits is so restricted by the NCAA today, it is very hard for college coaches to really get a feel for the recruits and end up depending on the HS coaches too much. Many of them are honest but others will stretch the truth just to get some recognition for their program or something extra for themselves.

[8timechamps]

I agree with the slower process and fault the coaches (Mack Brown) trying to recruit so early simply for bragging rights. They, as much as ESPiN, are responsible for creating much of the need for 'love' and entitled attitudes of many of today's HS athletes. It only makes sense to continue the evaluation through at least the early part of their senior season for most players. Yes, there will always be a few that are so talented you can safely offer early but even then, you need to make sure their attitude fits your team. Just as it is for corporations when hiring individuals, sometimes it isn't about who is the most talented but who fits the culture and has the best chemistry with the existing team. When personal contact with recruits is so restricted by the NCAA today, it is very hard for college coaches to really get a feel for the recruits and end up depending on the HS coaches too much. Many of them are honest but others will stretch the truth just to get some recognition for their program or something extra for themselves.

Yep, I'm with you. I had gotten frustrated with the 'attrition' recently (not as much as the coaches, I'm sure). I like the idea of not offering a kid until they feel completely sure of his ability.

College football has changed so much in recent years, and nothing exemplifies that more than recruiting. Social media has changed the way players are recruited. These days, anyone can research a recruit, so it's probably evened the playing field in some ways.

[lexsooner]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to do some research on the accuracy of those recruiting services and their ratings of players and recruiting classes. It seems pretty simple to do, and at the very least come out with some correlation data. I realize none of those services claim to be the least bit scientific in their ratings, but when you come out and assign stars or numerical points to a player, well, you are essentially making a claim that you know something about the abilities and potential of high school players. I can see how you could assign stars, one to five, to a player, but when you get into a 6.0 scale by tenths, it gets ridiculous, like you can accurately rate a player as a 5.8 and another as a 5.9. Or when a service adds up the points and then ranks the recruiting classes, well, that is equally silly. That system does not account for how well a program met its particular needs, or the number of scholarships available. I'm not aware of any recruiting service which has changed its rating system because of past inaccuracies. Oh well, that's not the point is it? As long as people are buying their services, that's what counts for them.

[8timechamps]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to do some research on the accuracy of those recruiting services and their ratings of players and recruiting classes. It seems pretty simple to do, and at the very least come out with some correlation data. I realize none of those services claim to be the least bit scientific in their ratings, but when you come out and assign stars or numerical points to a player, well, you are essentially making a claim that you know something about the abilities and potential of high school players. I can see how you could assign stars, one to five, to a player, but when you get into a 6.0 scale by tenths, it gets ridiculous, like you can accurately rate a player as a 5.8 and another as a 5.9. Or when a service adds up the points and then ranks the recruiting classes, well, that is equally silly. That system does not account for how well a program met its particular needs, or the number of scholarships available. I'm not aware of any recruiting service which has changed its rating system because of past inaccuracies. Oh well, that's not the point is it? As long as people are buying their services, that's what counts for them.

BINGO!

That's what it's mostly about. Like you said, I can understand a star rating, because that's pretty generalized. Scouts does a numerical system (0-100), and that seems a bit goofy to me too. But, as long as they have people willing to pay for it, they'll keep doing it. I don't pay for any services, mostly because the information is free if you spend the time looking for it, but I can understand why people would want inside information. To each their own.

Interesting thought about the accuracy of the ratings. I may go back over the past decade, just to see how they did with Sooner recruits.

[BoulderSooner79]

Why are we recruiting the dead at all? Did the rules change to allow zombies?

[FirstandGoal]

Good questions, some I can speculate on...some I have no clue about.

There is no question that recruiting defensive players has become more difficult for OU. Although, it's only the front 4-7 that it's changed. As for secondary players, OU is still among the elite teams in recruiting those positions (Hatari Byrd, a DB from California is a good example of that. We'll all know his name soon). There are two reasons I think it's been somewhat of a struggle. The first reason is because of the reputation that the Big XII defenses have versus the SEC. It seems that the big name defensive tackles want to play in the SEC, because defenses are built to their specialties. The second reason may be a bit of a cop-out, but I think Venebales got away from recruiting those kind of linemen (and maybe he needed to in the Big XII), so the all-important OU coach/High School Coach relationships suffered a little.

The good news is that OU remains an elite program from a recruiting standpoint. At 99% of the other programs in the country, landing a solid 3 star recruit would be considered a big success. At OU, it feels like the team is "settling" when it happens. When OU stops routinely landing 4 star athletes, then it may be time to worry. Right now, I think things are still good, and I also like the recruits that Mike Stoops is targeting.

Yes, I think LB play will be improved next year. First, we have to get them on the field, but I think Mike will spend the off-season scheming to make that happen. The two LBs that OU has commits from are very good. Alexander is going to be a contributor, and is a huge OU fan...that always helps. Matrogiovanni (in my opinion) is the best defensive recruit OU has to date. He's a throw back LB (big, and can hit). Those two look like proto-typical Mike Stoops LBs.

Corey Nelson is a victim of the scheme. He was the kind of LB Venables wanted in his zone blitzing defense. He just hasn't fit Mike's defense...yet. I still think he's a very good LB, and we'll probably hear his name a lot next season. Same can be said for Wort, although Wort suffers from being a weak cover LB, and he's a little undersized, so he struggles getting off of good blocks. Shannon/Franklin are solid guys that will work well in a defense that stresses man coverage. I expect them to continue to grow/improve.

As for cheating, I'm sure it happens, but I'm not sure that can be attributed to the rise of some programs. College football is cyclical, and sometimes teams just play better (Oregon State is a good example). West Virginia had the perfect storm on offense this year, but could only manage a 7-5 record, they will be in pretty bad shape next year (losing a lot on that side of the ball). Some teams just benefit from very good coaching (KSU), while others benefit from a lot of new, shiny things to show recruits, like uniforms and facilities (Oregon, Oklahoma State, etc). In the end, it's still about winning, so teams like OSU are going to find it hard to maintain a high level of recruiting when they aren't winning a conference title. OU will always have tradition to sell recruits. Nothing says "come be a part of success" like showing recruits a lot of previous success.

I really like the way this class is shaping up. For the first time in a while, OU seems to be spending a lot of extra time evaluating. Some think the slower process isn't good, I happen to think it'll decrease the turn-over rate, and the players that fizzle out or aren't what they thought they would be.

Great synopisis! I don't normally post much in this forum because I don't follow recruiting very much. I guess I take the "lazy fan" out and depend on the media or other fans to support me with the information that I need to evaluate the team. However, that's changed this year for me for some reason. I think it was the grim realization this season that we were very thin both on depth and talent in several key spots and it made me start asking why.
Thanks for all of the hard work you do 8TC for keeping us updated on stuff like this!

[lexsooner]

Thanks for all of the hard work you do 8TC for keeping us updated on stuff like this!

Hear, hear! I don't normally dabble much in the football forum, but since I have the week off, I have lots of time on my hands.

[OU_Sooners75]

What's wrong with the recruiting of DTs?

Nothing. Feb is a long ways away. And OU has 2 DTs committed, and will likely take upto 2 more.

And they still have a guy name Charles Walker that they are after. This guy isn't rated and is a 2 star. But his film is much better than Justin Manning (whom I think OU flips from A&M, did u see his families faceial expressions when he committed to A&M?).

Then I'm pretty confident OU still lands at least one more JUCO DT.

Now LBs and OL is starting to concern me, but then gain, OL is always one of the latest to fil for OU.

[8timechamps]

What's wrong with the recruiting of DTs?

Nothing. Feb is a long ways away. And OU has 2 DTs committed, and will likely take upto 2 more.

And they still have a guy name Charles Walker that they are after. This guy isn't rated and is a 2 star. But his film is much better than Justin Manning (whom I think OU flips from A&M, did u see his families faceial expressions when he committed to A&M?).

Then I'm pretty confident OU still lands at least one more JUCO DT.

Now LBs and OL is starting to concern me, but then gain, OL is always one of the latest to fil for OU.

I'm not sold that Manning is going to end up at A&M either. There is a lot of rumblings about OU still working hard to flip him.

[BoulderSooner79]

OU has been excellent at recruiting and developing DEs. This year was the exception as far as who got on the field, but Alexander/R. Lewis were excellent just last season with very good players before them. The younger guys we have look to have potential and the recruiting class has good ones too (on paper). LB is the position that hasn't shined in a while. We haven't had a Curtis Lofton type player since, well, Curtis Lofton. Ryan Reynolds would have been sans the knee injuries.

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm not sold that Manning is going to end up at A&M either. There is a lot of rumblings about OU still working hard to flip him.
I personally hope he goes to flip to OU and OU says no thanks.

I mean he would be great to have, but he seems a little too immature to me.

But if he does flip, that would be great. Just hope OU plays it where they leave one slot open until its for sure or not.

Than again, I think he may just be making OU sweat it out since he felt OU took to long to offer him.

[OU_Sooners75]

OU has been excellent at recruiting and developing DEs. This year was the exception as far as who got on the field, but Alexander/R. Lewis were excellent just last season with very good players before them. The younger guys we have look to have potential and the recruiting class has good ones too (on paper). LB is the position that hasn't shined in a while. We haven't had a Curtis Lofton type player since, well, Curtis Lofton. Ryan Reynolds would have been sans the knee injuries.

This is why I can't believe OU(particularly Bob Stoops) passed over getting Randy Shannon for Tim Kish.

Sure IMO, the jury is still out on Kish. But this season and this recruiting season isn't saying a lot for him.

[8timechamps]

I personally hope he goes to flip to OU and OU says no thanks.

I mean he would be great to have, but he seems a little too immature to me.

But if he does flip, that would be great. Just hope OU plays it where they leave one slot open until its for sure or not.

Than again, I think he may just be making OU sweat it out since he felt OU took to long to offer him.

I think we may have discussed this in the past, but I agree with you. I'd love for OU to be in a position to say "thanks, but no thanks". If he ends up here, great. If not, I'm not losing a second of sleep over it.

It would have been nice to land him, but I think this class will end up pretty solid at DT without him.

[8timechamps]

OU has been excellent at recruiting and developing DEs. This year was the exception as far as who got on the field, but Alexander/R. Lewis were excellent just last season with very good players before them. The younger guys we have look to have potential and the recruiting class has good ones too (on paper). LB is the position that hasn't shined in a while. We haven't had a Curtis Lofton type player since, well, Curtis Lofton. Ryan Reynolds would have been sans the knee injuries.

I think Venebals starting recruiting more of a safety/linebacker hybrid type player. Not a true linebacker. I can understand the need for those type of players, but more times than not, it can be costly having only those type of players. I love what I saw from Shannon and Franklin, but it's the Mastrogiavanni kid that has me excited. If you get a chance, check out his highlight video on YouTube. He big, hits big, and runs through the tackle. He is the prototypical linebacker. Now we need to add 4 or 5 just like him in the next few years.

[Scott D]

This is why I can't believe OU(particularly Bob Stoops) passed over getting Randy Shannon for Tim Kish.

Sure IMO, the jury is still out on Kish. But this season and this recruiting season isn't saying a lot for him.

That may have ended up biting OU like it did TCU considering he was there for 1 year before jumping to Arkie.

[SoonerBBall]

Well, 8 Time, I will use this opportunity to get more free inside info from someone with lots of knowledge about the program. Is there a sense of why OU is having a hard time recruiting for DT and LB, both critical areas of need? Do you think it is because of the sheer number of competitive programs out there, so many more than in the past? I mean, in the past, we never had to recruit against W.V., KSU, OSU, or Oregon St. Any feeling that there is more cheating going on? I am darn suspicious of OSU and Baylor and their rise in sports.

Also, will our LBs be any better next year? I thought they raved about Corey Nelson a few years ago. What happened to him? He seems overhyped like Wort. Will Shannon, Franklin, and any others be able to improve the situation? They only have two commitments at LB, and the one from Texas runs a 4.9 40. What in the world?

Personally, I could give a damn what his 40 time is. I feel like OU started buying into the hype of these fast, athletic guys and forgot to get guys who actually knew how to play football consistently (Travis Lewis). I'd rather have a big linebacker that can shed a block and put a sure tackle on a runner than one who can run really fast and jump really high. In fact, I'm far more concerned about lateral speed than 40 times for linebackers anyways.

I feel the same way about our o-line, too. The no-huddle, hurry-up has forced us to recruit smaller linemen than normal and I think that is why our run game suffers so much. It sure is fantastic for our pass game though.

[LakeRat]

OU has been excellent at recruiting and developing DEs. This year was the exception as far as who got on the field, but Alexander/R. Lewis were excellent just last season with very good players before them. The younger guys we have look to have potential and the recruiting class has good ones too (on paper). LB is the position that hasn't shined in a while. We haven't had a Curtis Lofton type player since, well, Curtis Lofton. Ryan Reynolds would have been sans the knee injuries.

Not sure we have developed DE's? Can you give me some examples?