So, our wonderful President is cutting his vacation short?

[OU_Sooners75]

The guy has had ample vacation days his entire political career, so I guess he is now growing tired of being around his famil?


Lol

What a ****ing joke. The guy has been on holiday vacation since Thursday. So now he is coming back a week later and saying he is cutting his vacation short?

Maybe if he wasn't so eager at making this fiscal cliff thing become reality, he would actually put up a solution instead of disregarding anything the republicans put together.

IMO Obama is purposely wanting to make this fiscal crisis fail. It gets automatic tax hikes and some spending cuts, but to things that don't need to be cut.

In return, he looks like the good guy along with his party while making the republicans look bad.

I guess if you can't get what you want, just stall and decline. And it will eventually happen anyway.

Obama = the most worthless president in our nations history.

[badger]

In return, he looks like the good guy along with his party while making the republicans look bad.

I don't see how this is a "win" for Democrats or President Obama if we go off the cliff. There's no more major elections until 2014 (when midterms are up). That's more than enough time for either side to recover from a PR hit.

BUT, declining economies are as stubborn as droughts to shake off. Much like a lack of moisture in the air leads to fewer rains, consumers that don't have more money won't spend more money. The pessimism about the economy will lead to worse economic conditions among suppliers and consumers -- businesses won't hire more, consumers won't have the income to spend more.

If this crap continues, expect a day of reckoning in 2014. Second term midterms have recently not been kind to incumbent presidents (W. in 2006, Clinton in 1998)

[OU_Sooners75]

They will use it against the republicans, saying something to the effect that the republicans couldn't agree with what the democrats wanted and didn't offer reasonable soultions for the democrats to get behind.

They will say they tried to reach across the aisle, but the republicans didn't want to work with them at all. Thought they clearly are working with them.

The problem boils down to cut spending and entitlement reform. The republicans are willing to give tax hikes, but want real spending scuts and entitlement reform.

They (the repubs) know the democrats successfully campaigned on leaving the entitlement programs alone. So they are going to staunchly be against that reform.

Its a win for the democrats because they can say the republicans wanted to take away entitlements. They wnted to cut important spending. So when the automatic hikes and cuts go in, the dems can then lead those that depend on the government to believe the republicans are against their needs and wants. Effectively guaranteeing those people do not vote republican in the future.

[yermom]

what are the entitlements they are asking for cuts on?

[Ton Loc]

Its a win for the democrats because they can say the republicans wanted to take away entitlements. They wnted to cut important spending. So when the automatic hikes and cuts go in, the dems can then lead those that depend on the government to believe the republicans are against their needs and wants. Effectively guaranteeing those people do not vote republican in the future.

I'm going out on a limb and saying these people didn't vote republican in the first place. If there's anything I've learned in this forum (:beaten:)- Its that people who depend on the government are democrats.

[Midtowner]

They will say they tried to reach across the aisle, but the republicans didn't want to work with them at all. Thought they clearly are working with them.


Are you kidding? The Republicans couldn't even pass a "plan B" bill which was completely ridiculous on its face where Dems were concerned.

We'll go over the cliff, the markets will tank for a bit (probably a good time to buy) and we'll very quickly have some tax cuts passed, probably the same thing Obama wanted all along and the 'pubs will be blamed for a market crash, hyperpartisanship and adhering to tax pledges instead of common sense.

[OU_Sooners75]

Are you kidding? The Republicans couldn't even pass a "plan B" bill which was completely ridiculous on its face where Dems were concerned.

We'll go over the cliff, the markets will tank for a bit (probably a good time to buy) and we'll very quickly have some tax cuts passed, probably the same thing Obama wanted all along and the 'pubs will be blamed for a market crash, hyperpartisanship and adhering to tax pledges instead of common sense.

Maybe you should educate yourslef a little and stop relying on that made-up law degree.

Plan B was Pelosi's purposal. Pelosi rallied her fellow democrats to reject her own bill.

I will say this though. I'm still waiting for Dear Leader Obama to come up with a solution that both sides can get behind.

But he won't, because he wants all this to go bad. He wants to use his inaugral address to bash the republicans for failing to meet his agenda.

An agenda that includes ruining this nation!

[rock on sooner]

:biggrin:I'd be willing to wager that if the prez were a Pub and the situation
were reversed that the Pub prez would be using the exact same tactic.
Look at it on its face...sequestration gets all taxes raised and a lot of
painful cuts. The new Congress will rush in and fix the military cuts,
leave SS alone, tweak Medicare/Medicaid, reverse the "tax increases"
to the current level, except the top 2%. The markets will wobble a
bit and then take off for higher levels. All that will need to happen is
everyone agree on some job creation stuff, increase the debt limit
and then call a campfire and sing "Kumbaya".

Boehner will tear up, McConnell's upper lip may actually move when
he speaks, Reid will pontificate in front of the camera, Pelosi will act
like Grandma and the Prez will go somewhere warm and play golf.

We will then all start talking about how smart we all are.
:sneakiness:

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm just amazed that these so-called intelligent folks that praise Obama can't be intelligent enough to see where Obama wants to take this country.

Mind boggling really. They want the freedoms, but they want to take away others freedoms as well.


But so it goes in a socialist communist government/country.

[Midtowner]

I'm just amazed that these so-called intelligent folks that praise Obama can't be intelligent enough to see where Obama wants to take this country.

Mind boggling really. They want the freedoms, but they want to take away others freedoms as well.


But so it goes in a socialist communist government/country.

I perceive that the rich have more freedom in this country than they would anywhere else in the world and that the middle class and working poor are essentially a servant class whose "rights" include getting up and working every day for scraps so as to not have their homes repossessed and lives taken away as opposed to those who win the sperm lottery and end up with trust funds, yachts, etc., or those who insert themselves at high levels of power in corporate structures and essentially loot them or those who set up rigged investment schemes, making billions while the investments of the middle class go down the toilet. Sure there are looters at the bottom, but they're small time compared to the looters at the top.

The pendulum is bound to swing back in the other direction at some point and maybe that time is now.

[OU_Sooners75]

what are the entitlements they are asking for cuts on?

I'm not sure they are asking to cut entitlements, but they want to reform them.

I'm guessing entitlements like HUD, WIC, SNAP, Medicare, SSI, etc.

I personally think there needs to be limitations for entitlement programs.

One thing really lacking in this countrys workforce is skilled laborers. Instead of allowing people to live off the government, why not help them survive while helping them get the training they need to become a skilled laborer?

Hell, I don't know one welder that makes less than $25/hr in oklahoma.
I don't know one mason (brick layer) that gets less $20/hr in oklahoma.
I don't know one electrician in Oklahoma that makes less than $15/hr.

Why can't we get back to the apprentice/master craftsman like what built this nation? Why can't the government help people, that are depending on entitlements to live, get the training to get a decent job?

I can understand people don't want to get paid crap and do crap jobs so they'd rather not work. Get them to work. There are jobs out there. Get them the training to get good jobs!

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm going out on a limb and saying these people didn't vote republican in the first place. If there's anything I've learned in this forum (:beaten:)- Its that people who depend on the government are democrats.

My brother voted for Romney. He is on food stamps, works 40 hours/week, and goes to college fulltime. Has a family with 3 kids. Struggles to make it pay check to pay check. That's why he is going back to college to finish his degree.

I'm sure he isn't the only person in this country that is doing what he is doing.

[OU_Sooners75]

I perceive that the rich have more freedom in this country than they would anywhere else in the world and that the middle class and working poor are essentially a servant class whose "rights" include getting up and working every day for scraps so as to not have their homes repossessed and lives taken away as opposed to those who win the sperm lottery and end up with trust funds, yachts, etc., or those who insert themselves at high levels of power in corporate structures and essentially loot them or those who set up rigged investment schemes, making billions while the investments of the middle class go down the toilet. Sure there are looters at the bottom, but they're small time compared to the looters at the top.

The pendulum is bound to swing back in the other direction at some point and maybe that time is now.

You're an attorney, so you wouldn't know a day of hard work if it slap you in your mangina.

[yermom]

I'm not sure they are asking to cut entitlements, but they want to reform them.

I'm guessing entitlements like HUD, WIC, SNAP, Medicare, SSI, etc.

I personally think there needs to be limitations for entitlement programs.

One thing really lacking in this countrys workforce is skilled laborers. Instead of allowing people to live off the government, why not help them survive while helping them get the training they need to become a skilled laborer?

Hell, I don't know one welder that makes less than $25/hr in oklahoma.
I don't know one mason (brick layer) that gets less $20/hr in oklahoma.
I don't know one electrician in Oklahoma that makes less than $15/hr.

Why can't we get back to the apprentice/master craftsman like what built this nation? Why can't the government help people, that are depending on entitlements to live, get the training to get a decent job?

I can understand people don't want to get paid crap and do crap jobs so they'd rather not work. Get them to work. There are jobs out there. Get them the training to get good jobs!

that's not very specific. all i hear is "COMMUNISM, TAXES, WAR ON CHRISTMAS, OBAMACARE, OH THE HUMANITY!"

maybe mix in some guns and illegal aliens, but from the right's rhetoric it sounds like they want to do away with any social safety nets, not some reasonable amount of reform. they are just wanting more free reign for their corporate buyers that want to ship off more jobs and money to other countries.

[OU_Sooners75]

that's not very specific. all i hear is "COMMUNISM, TAXES, WAR ON CHRISTMAS, OBAMACARE, OH THE HUMANITY!"

maybe mix in some guns and illegal aliens, but from the right's rhetoric it sounds like they want to do away with any social safety nets, not some reasonable amount of reform. they are just wanting more free reign for their corporate buyers that want to ship off more jobs and money to other countries.

If that's what you got out of what I said, then you are not open to debate.

I really couldn't give two ****s what republicans or democrats are doing or their plaforms. Both parties are worthless.

I'm one that thinks this nation needs to stop playing politics with my childrens future.

I'm also one that believes people need to stop being lazy and sitting with their hand out askin g for free money while putting nothing into the system.

So if our government is willing to help by handing people free money, why not expect those people to be drug free. Why can't we ask that they go get the training for jobs that get them off the government teat? Why can't we get good folks good jobs, but they can't because they don't have the training?

Want to get out of the economic crisis? Get more money into more peoples pockets.

Want to get out of debt? Stop spending more than you make. And get more people into the middle class and above.

Besides that, I would say the same thing if Obama was a republican. He is ****ing worthless!

[yermom]

If that's what you got out of what I said, then you are not open to debate.

I really couldn't give two ****s what republicans or democrats are doing or their plaforms. Both parties are worthless.

I'm one that thinks this nation needs to stop playing politics with my childrens future.

I'm also one that believes people need to stop being lazy and sitting with their hand out askin g for free money while putting nothing into the system.

So if our government is willing to help by handing people free money, why not expect those people to be drug free. Why can't we ask that they go get the training for jobs that get them off the government teat? Why can't we get good folks good jobs, but they can't because they don't have the training?

Want to get out of the economic crisis? Get more money into more peoples pockets.

Want to get out of debt? Stop spending more than you make. And get more people into the middle class and above.

Besides that, I would say the same thing if Obama was a republican. He is ****ing worthless!

i'm saying that's all i hear in general, i haven't heard anyone on the right propose anything reasonable. all i hear is don't raise taxes.

who does the government really give free money to? i know a lot of poor people. even getting on disability takes years. if you aren't a single mother, there isn't really much money out there for you that i can see.

[OU_Sooners75]

i'm saying that's all i hear in general, i haven't heard anyone on the right propose anything reasonable. all i hear is don't raise taxes.

who does the government really give free money to? i know a lot of poor people. even getting on disability takes years. if you aren't a single mother, there isn't really much money out there for you that i can see.

As a father, you can also get on all the entitlements as single mothers.

But there are ways people get free food. Hell I know one person that hasn't worked a day after 22. She said why should she when the government doesn't make her? She gets over $800/month in food stamps., has one kid
Som I'm guessing around $200 for child support (which isn't government money unless he's is a dead beat). She get over $200/month in TANF. She gets government assistant housing. He rent is $25/month. She is on another program that pays her electric and utilities. And she gets vouchers every so often to buy her and her daughter clothes and shoes. Not to mention free school supplies. She isn't on wic any longer because her daughter is a teen. She gets everything paid for. And get $200,month from the government for
spending money. This isn't including the money she gets from child support.

She is 29 now. She is mentally and physically able to work but hasn't since she was 22. (Her words not mine and she isn't ashamed of it).

And yes, a single father can also get the same help.

While there are those like my brother that works hard to provide for his fmily but recieves food stamps, there are plenty in the same boat as the woman I described.

Why would anyone want to work if they don't have to. If they know the government won't make them get a job, why should they?

[yermom]

and here i am working, like a sucker

[Midtowner]

You're an attorney, so you wouldn't know a day of hard work if it slap you in your mangina.

Wow... middle school much?

[OU_Sooners75]

and here i am working, like a sucker

Exactly.

It just seems some people blindly support these type of things.

I'm not saying people are not worthy of receiving help. But there should be limitations to the help they receive.

1. If some one qualifies for aid, then they must maintain a drug free lifestyle.
2. A person that receives aid, has a totl of 6 months on the aid.
3. If a person is receiving aid, then they receive a voucher for skill training at a vocational training school. They must complete the course and become certified or pay back the tuition and books and other fees.
4. Anyone that is found mentally and physically incapable of working, they are exempt from the limitations of help.

Like I said, sometimes people need help. But put limitations on those that are able to work.