Oh yea the Libs here said to wait a few days before starting to defend Our Guns, They

[olevetonahill]

Aint waitin In the Lib Main stream


Calls for greater gun control after mass shooting at school

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-control-debate-erupts-twitter-195914529.html


NYC Mayor Bloomberg slams Obama on guns: ‘We need immediate action’

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ny-mayor-bloomberg-slams-obama-guns-immediate-action-214800682--politics.html

[diverdog]

Aint waitin In the Lib Main stream


Calls for greater gun control after mass shooting at school

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-control-debate-erupts-twitter-195914529.html


NYC Mayor Bloomberg slams Obama on guns: ‘We need immediate action’

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ny-mayor-bloomberg-slams-obama-guns-immediate-action-214800682--politics.html


Vet:

Sooner or later there is going to be a tragedy large enough that the political will to clamp down on guns is going to happen. This maybe that tragedy.

[olevetonahill]

Vet:

Sooner or later there is going to be a tragedy large enough that the political will to clamp down on guns is going to happen. This maybe that tragedy.

Saw somethin the other day
said sompun along the lines of
Why is it every time somethin Bad happens with Guns the Libs wanta take em away from those of us who Dint do it?

[diverdog]

Saw somethin the other day
said sompun along the lines of
Why is it every time somethin Bad happens with Guns the Libs wanta take em away from those of us who Dint do it?

Vet:

This event or the next one may even change the minds of conservative politicians.

i think I may go get my sig before it is to late.

[LiveLaughLove]

Vet:

Sooner or later there is going to be a tragedy large enough that the political will to clamp down on guns is going to happen. This maybe that tragedy.

Explain to me how this or any other of these tragedies recently would have been stopped with more gun control? How much gun control? Total gun control?

I guess you saw the story published today in CT about the Chinese man that stabbed 22 students in a Chinese school. Do we ban knives also? What kind and how many?

What happens when the law abiding citizens don't have guns, but the criminals still do? Are we supposed to be sheep for the slaughter? Or are we supposed to become criminals when we keep our guns?

You can't legislate out crazy no matter how much you try. Someone will always out crazy any law on the books.

I won't allow my family to be unarmed and defenseless.

[olevetonahill]

Vet:

This event or the next one may even change the minds of conservative politicians.

i think I may go get my sig before it is to late.

Dont much make a shat to me what any of the Pols think. Until they can get the SCOTUS to overturn their decisions of the last few years Guns are gonna stay in the hands Of Mostly law abiding citizens

That being said , About the only thing I can advise is to stock up on ammo and reloading supplies caus you libs are gonna go after that and we know it .

[LiveLaughLove]

Dont much make a shat to me what any of the Pols think. Until they can get the SCOTUS to overturn their decisions of the last few years Guns are gonna stay in the hands Of Mostly law abiding citizens

That being said , About the only thing I can advise is to stock up on ammo and reloading supplies caus you libs are gonna go after that and we know it .

Good point. And taken.

They always work around the edges of the law don't they.

[hawaii 5-0]

These shooters aren'i criminals.

They're crazies.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

These shooters aren'i criminals.

They're crazies.

5-0

Actually they are Both H2-0

[hawaii 5-0]

Actually they are Both H2-0

How 'bout I start callin' you Old Flaccid Goat?

You wouldn't mind that would ya?

You're past tryin' to be cute.

Now you're antics are just lame.

Did he take hostages? Was there demands for money? What was the shooter's criminal motivation to kill 20 people?

The guy was just crqzy.

5-0

[cleller]

Vicious cycle. When nutcases do these things, people feel like they must have their own protection, so they buy guns.

[LiveLaughLove]

These shooters aren'i criminals.

They're crazies.

5-0

They of coourse become criminals, but you're right. And that's why you can't legislate it.

There is no possible way to do it. Crazy will always out crazy a normal persons ability to make laws for them.

The breakdown was in the family in not recognizing his ability to become a murderer. Of course, that's assuming there was any predilection.

Here's a thought. What if the school had an armed guard? What if the teachers were allowed to carry if they were properly certified? Instead of shielding those kids, they might could have ended it there.

I know I know.

[olevetonahill]

How 'bout I start callin' you Old Flaccid Goat?

You wouldn't mind that would ya?

You're past tryin' to be cute.

Now you're antics are just lame.

Did he take hostages? Was there demands for money? What was the shooter's criminal motivation to kill 20 people?

The guy was just crqzy.

5-0

Why H 2-0 I DGS what ya call me I let shat like that run off me like H 2-0 on a ducks back :drunk:

Now How about this for Criminal , he apparently STOLE the guns that makes him a Criminal see how that works?

[diverdog]

Dont much make a shat to me what any of the Pols think. Until they can get the SCOTUS to overturn their decisions of the last few years Guns are gonna stay in the hands Of Mostly law abiding citizens

That being said , About the only thing I can advise is to stock up on ammo and reloading supplies caus you libs are gonna go after that and we know it .

They can do a whole lot of things without violating the SCOTUS decision and still reduce the number of guns on the street.

[olevetonahill]

They can do a whole lot of things without violating the SCOTUS decision and still reduce the number of guns on the street.

Why I said Stock up NOW. Just like Klintons bain they wont take what we already have But can make it harder to get replacements and or Ammo.

[LiveLaughLove]

They can do a whole lot of things without violating the SCOTUS decision and still reduce the number of guns on the street.

Those guns weren't on the street. They were at his mom's house. How are you going to legislate that? She was sane normal and evidently passed the background check.

You and I both know the truth is short of outlawing guns totally you are tilting windmills. And even then criminals would still have them.


So all gun control laws are aimed, essentially, at the one class of persons who have already demonstrated their intent to ignore gun laws. The laws are aimed at the very people who don't obey them, but it is taken as an article of faith that if you just disarm the people who aren't breaking the law, for some reason the criminally-minded will follow their lead.

Well, that's absurd, obviously. The only way that a criminal who is determined to get a gun and use it for a criminal purpose will not have a gun is if there are literally no guns to be had-- no guns to be stolen, no guns to be bought off Craigslist, no guns, period.

In that regime, I can see the argument that the 100% gun ban would greatly reduce gun violence. Although, of course, there are still lots of shootings in England, and lots of knifings, and in gun-control Germany there was an atrocious school-shooting a couple of years ago... but let's say that such a regime at least greatly reduces gun crimes.

Laws passed on emotion tend to suck. Which is why most lib produced laws suck.

[kevpks]

Here's a thought. What if the school had an armed guard? What if the teachers were allowed to carry if they were properly certified? Instead of shielding those kids, they might could have ended it there.

I know I know.

I'm a teacher and I can tell you that most of my colleagues definitely do not have the personality or desire to carry guns. I think there are ways to make schools more secure without the teachers or students carrying guns. I teach at the college level and I don't really like the idea of students carrying guns around campus. I'd probably cut back on student conferences if Jimmy brought a hand cannon with him to discuss his grade on that last essay.

However, I do like the increased police presence, training in locking down the campus, and other emergency measures that have been implemented. All of that can and should continue to be evaluated. For example, we still don't have a good protocol for reporting potentially dangerous students in my opinion. We report it to the dean but where it goes from there depends a lot of how seriously the dean takes the situation.

[olevetonahill]

I'm a teacher and I can tell you that most of my colleagues definitely do not have the personality or desire to carry guns. I think there are ways to make schools more secure without the teachers or students carrying guns. I teach at the college level and I don't really like the idea of students carrying guns around campus. I'd probably cut back on student conferences if Jimmy brought a hand cannon with him to discuss his grade on that last essay.

However, I do like the increased police presence, training in locking down the campus, and other emergency measures that have been implemented. All of that can and should continue to be evaluated. For example, we still don't have a good protocol for reporting potentially dangerous students in my opinion. We report it to the dean but where it goes from there depends a lot of how seriously the dean takes the situation.

You must not think very highly of your Colleagues or students. Are there not any Veterans that attend your school?
I would think that Most students who could pass the background check and pass the course to obtain a CC whould be pretty level headed and not just shoot you over giving them a bad grade

While I agree that Most of your College level Profs. are moren likely too cowardly to even think of ever firing a weapon . Im sure there are a few that would have the temperament to handle it with finesse.

Remember when Seconds count the Cops are only minutes away.

[LiveLaughLove]

I'm a teacher and I can tell you that most of my colleagues definitely do not have the personality or desire to carry guns. I think there are ways to make schools more secure without the teachers or students carrying guns. I teach at the college level and I don't really like the idea of students carrying guns around campus. I'd probably cut back on student conferences if Jimmy brought a hand cannon with him to discuss his grade on that last essay.

However, I do like the increased police presence, training in locking down the campus, and other emergency measures that have been implemented. All of that can and should continue to be evaluated. For example, we still don't have a good protocol for reporting potentially dangerous students in my opinion. We report it to the dean but where it goes from there depends a lot of how seriously the dean takes the situation.

Here's a law professor at U of Tennessee's take on it.


This vulnerability makes some people uncomfortable. I teach at a state university with a campus gun-free policy, and quite a few of my students have permits to carry guns. After the Virginia Tech shooting a few years ago, one of them asked me if we could move class off campus, because she felt unsafe being unarmed. I certainly would have felt perfectly safe having her carry a gun in my presence; she was, and is, a responsible adult. I feel the same way about the other law students I know who have carry permits.

Gun-free zones are premised on a lie: that murderers will follow rules, and that people like my student are a greater danger to those around them than crazed killers. That's an insult to honest people. Sometimes, it's a deadly one. The notion that more guns mean more crime is wrong. In fact, as gun ownership has expanded over the past decade, crime has gone down.

I have to agree with Vet. It doesn't sound like you have much faith in your students. I also agree most professors probably are a little too, um, erudite to sully themselves with firearms. Which is fine. I'm not for mandating people carry a weapon. Just if they want to and pass the background checks.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/12/14/connecticut-school-shooting-gun-control/1770345/

[kevpks]

You must not think very highly of your Colleagues or students. Are there not any Veterans that attend your school?
I would think that Most students who could pass the background check and pass the course to obtain a CC whould be pretty level headed and not just shoot you over giving them a bad grade

While I agree that Most of your College level Profs. are moren likely too cowardly to even think of ever firing a weapon . Im sure there are a few that would have the temperament to handle it with finesse.

Remember when Seconds count the Cops are only minutes away.

So everyone who doesn't have the capacity to turn into an action hero when faced with a mass murderer is a coward? Locking and barricading a door while looking after your students is just as heroic as coming out blasting in my opinion.

Plus, I would not call the majority of the 18-24 year old I teach "level headed." That's not a typical trait of that age group. Does a background check and the minimal training it takes to own a gun really get a person ready to deal with what we saw today?

And no I don't think much of my colleagues when it comes to the ability to handle firearms in a life or death situation. Some can barely handle the stress of grading or faculty meetings. I didn't even say they shouldn't have the right. I just don't think it is a workable solution and I'm not comfortable with it.

[diverdog]

Those guns weren't on the street. They were at his mom's house. How are you going to legislate that? She was sane normal and evidently passed the background check.

You and I both know the truth is short of outlawing guns totally you are tilting windmills. And even then criminals would still have them.



Laws passed on emotion tend to suck. Which is why most lib produced laws suck.

LLL:

None of what you say matters. I am strictly arguing the politics of the moment. I own tons of guns.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Explain to me how this or any other of these tragedies recently would have been stopped with more gun control? How much gun control? Total gun control?

I guess you saw the story published today in CT about the Chinese man that stabbed 22 students in a Chinese school. Do we ban knives also? What kind and how many?

What happens when the law abiding citizens don't have guns, but the criminals still do? Are we supposed to be sheep for the slaughter? Or are we supposed to become criminals when we keep our guns?

You can't legislate out crazy no matter how much you try. Someone will always out crazy any law on the books.

I won't allow my family to be unarmed and defenseless.
I'm somewhat with Lx3 on this. Its not really fair to compare gun control in places like Germany and the UK because relatively few weapons are in circulation there. If there was a ban on assault rifles tomorrow criminals would have no problem because there is such a large volume in circulation, not to mention the flow of arms back and forth across the Mexico border funded by our own law enforcement.

Obviously going and seizing firearms from people would result in a bloodbath. This is the result of a society that glorifies violence and portrays these type of killers as some type of anti-hero, and talks about them for weeks on mass media. I think ending the 24 hour coverage of horrible incidents like this would go further than any assault weapon ban, you can't tell me this guy wasn't thinking he'd get his few minutes of fame and would never be forgotten from this.

That being said, L3 would you be in favor of restrictions or licensing like that required to drive a car? Mandatory safety or proficiency test? I would view the ability to use firearms on an equal level of responsibility as
automobiles, no?

EDIT: Also no one was killed in the China attack with the knives, just food for thought there.

[kevpks]

Here's a law professor at U of Tennessee's take on it.



I have to agree with Vet. It doesn't sound like you have much faith in your students. I also agree most professors probably are a little too, um, erudite to sully themselves with firearms. Which is fine. I'm not for mandating people carry a weapon. Just if they want to and pass the background checks.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/12/14/connecticut-school-shooting-gun-control/1770345/

Like I said to Vet, I'm not necessarily opposed to concealed carry on campus. I just have trouble picturing it based on my 10 years in higher ed. I do think there are people stupid enough to use their guns for intimidation on campus. People openly displaying firearms does not make for a good environment for learning. Just my opinion.

[diverdog]

You must not think very highly of your Colleagues or students. Are there not any Veterans that attend your school?
I would think that Most students who could pass the background check and pass the course to obtain a CC whould be pretty level headed and not just shoot you over giving them a bad grade

While I agree that Most of your College level Profs. are moren likely too cowardly to even think of ever firing a weapon . Im sure there are a few that would have the temperament to handle it with finesse.

Remember when Seconds count the Cops are only minutes away.

vet:

All these guys have been wearing body armor. If he busts into a room and goes after you first there is a good chance you are dead even with a gun.

[olevetonahill]

So everyone who doesn't have the capacity to turn into an action hero when faced with a mass murderer is a coward? Locking and barricading a door while looking after your students is just as heroic as coming out blasting in my opinion.

Plus, I would not call the majority of the 18-24 year old I teach "level headed." That's not a typical trait of that age group. Does a background check and the minimal training it takes to own a gun really get a person ready to deal with what we saw today?

And no I don't think much of my colleagues when it comes to the ability to handle firearms in a life or death situation. Some can barely handle the stress of grading or faculty meetings. I didn't even say they shouldn't have the right. I just don't think it is a workable solution and I'm not comfortable with it.

Yet those same 18 to 24 year olds that you think are so shaky are in the Military fighting for your academic freedoms

Im sorry I shouldnt have used the term "Coward" I should have used the term " Puzzyfied"

[kevpks]

vet:

All these guys have been wearing body armor. If he busts into a room and goes after you first there is a good chance you are dead even with a gun.

Right. And where do I keep it while I'm teaching? Is it in my desk? My bag? Do I have it holstered like Han Solo while lecturing on Chaucer? I just can't wrap my mind around how this would work.

[kevpks]

Yet those same 18 to 24 year olds that you think are so shaky are in the Military fighting for your academic freedoms

Im sorry I shouldnt have used the term "Coward" I should have used the term " Puzzyfied"

Veterans would be very qualified to carry weapons. I don't dispute that. I teach maybe three or four a semester. Most 18 year olds don't have that training or knowledge.

[Midtowner]

Here's a thought. What if the school had an armed guard? What if the teachers were allowed to carry if they were properly certified? Instead of shielding those kids, they might could have ended it there.


Not a great idea. We haven't had too many courthouse attacks, but most of the ones we have had involved folks taking guns from courthouse security and turning them on other folks. Extending such a thing into our schools would probably yield similar results.

[kevpks]

Plus, we are talking about an elementary school here. Even if elementary school teachers could carry guns, how many would? It's not like you can make them. Where do they keep the gun? In a safe? What if some prankster kid gets to it? There might not be time to get to the gun if a shooter bursts in anyway. Does the benefit of allowing guns in these schools outweigh all of the risks and variables?

[olevetonahill]

Not a great idea. We haven't had too many courthouse attacks, but most of the ones we have had involved folks taking guns from courthouse security and turning them on other folks. Extending such a thing into our schools would probably yield similar results.

Like I said Matlock you are a Piece of work you surely are

[5thYearSooner]

For those who are comparing this to china school knife attacks..Just understand that no one was killed there. If he had access to gun all of them and probably more would have died. If you want to compare something, compare the gun related violence with other countries.
More over no one can predict when a very normal and sane gun owner will go rouge. Human behavior is unpredictable. If his mom had not bought those guns this probably would not have happened. World is a much better place without guns.
If criminals have guns and normal people don't have guns we are sitting ducks. But if everyone has a gun everyone is a sitting duck no matter what.
And ah a security guard at school with guns..so how about school buses? You gonna make all buses bullet proof?? How about just getting rid of hitech guns altogether. Its math.The lesser the availability the lesser the probability of gun related violence.

[Turd_Ferguson]

More over no one can predict when a very normal and sane gun owner will go rouge.Can you predict when they will go beige?

[5thYearSooner]

Can you predict when they will go beige?

No. But I see what you did there.

[olevetonahill]

For those who are comparing this to china school knife attacks..Just understand that no one was killed there. If he had access to gun all of them and probably more would have died. If you want to compare something, compare the gun related violence with other countries.
More over no one can predict when a very normal and sane gun owner will go rouge. Human behavior is unpredictable. If his mom had not bought those guns this probably would not have happened. World is a much better place without guns.
If criminals have guns and normal people don't have guns we are sitting ducks. But if everyone has a gun everyone is a sitting duck no matter what.
And ah a security guard at school with guns..so how about school buses? You gonna make all buses bullet proof?? How about just getting rid of hitech guns altogether. Its math.The lesser the availability the lesser the probability of gun related violence.

Dont think we gonna find Nirvana in our lifetime But heres ya a song


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msbfN81Gm0

[Tiptonsooner]

For those who are comparing this to china school knife attacks..Just understand that no one was killed there. If he had access to gun all of them and probably more would have died. If you want to compare something, compare the gun related violence with other countries.
More over no one can predict when a very normal and sane gun owner will go rouge. Human behavior is unpredictable. If his mom had not bought those guns this probably would not have happened. World is a much better place without guns.
If criminals have guns and normal people don't have guns we are sitting ducks. But if everyone has a gun everyone is a sitting duck no matter what.
And ah a security guard at school with guns..so how about school buses? You gonna make all buses bullet proof?? How about just getting rid of hitech guns altogether. Its math.The lesser the availability the lesser the probability of gun related violence.

I guess when we make hi-tech drugs illegal, they will go away too...oh,wait......

More feel good bull**** from liberal do gooders. My hi-tech weapons have never given me a single second of trouble, I do have them locked in a safe in case they change their behavior suddenly.

[5thYearSooner]

might not happen in your lifetime but I hope it happens in my life time..

[olevetonahill]

Im still LMFAO at the Libs here who espoused the idea of waiting a few days before we bring up the GC issue. Yea they want us to wait to defend our Rights so they can get the 1st licks in . Check this out.

Gun Control Petitions Flood White House Website In Wake Of Newtown School Shooting

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/gun-control-petitions_n_2303506.html

[olevetonahill]

might not happen in your lifetime but I hope it happens in my life time..

Hope in one hand and shat in the other. let me know which one gets full 1st

[Turd_Ferguson]

Hope in one hand and shat in the other. let me know which one gets full 1stHe already has both hands full of shat.

[olevetonahill]

His dumb *** already has both hands full of shat.

I thot that was his head thats full cause thats what seems to be coming out his mouf

[5thYearSooner]

I guess when we make hi-tech drugs illegal, they will go away too...oh,wait......

More feel good bull**** from liberal do gooders. My hi-tech weapons have never given me a single second of trouble, I do have them locked in a safe in case they change their behavior suddenly.

Drugs didn't kill elementary kids. A person with drugs didn't kill them either. Its not feel good bull ****..I'm glad your high tech guns are safely locked. This 20 year old kid's mom probably thought the same way you are thinking. You might be a responsible guy but that doesn't mean every other gun owner is.

[5thYearSooner]

having issues old farts? cant digest truth?

[olevetonahill]

having issues old farts? cant digest truth?

I dont fart anymore. Cant trust em

[5thYearSooner]

I dont fart anymore. Cant trust em

must be coming out of yer ears cuz of heads filled with shat logic..

[olevetonahill]

must be coming out of yer ears cuz of heads filled with shat logic..

Naw I pile it 5 years high then kick it

[5thYearSooner]

He already has both hands full of shat.

There ya go turd..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hct5P_OfklU

[SCOUT]

Drugs didn't kill elementary kids. A person with drugs didn't kill them either. Its not feel good bull ****..I'm glad your high tech guns are safely locked. This 20 year old kid's mom probably thought the same way you are thinking. You might be a responsible guy but that doesn't mean every other gun owner is.

You do realize that when you try to manage to the lowest common denominator pretty much all liberty is lost, right? Not every driver is a responsible driver. We should outlaw cars.

[5thYearSooner]

You do realize that when you try to manage to the lowest common denominator pretty much all liberty is lost, right? Not every driver is a responsible driver. We should outlaw cars.
They call it DUI..You suggesting we shouldnt enforce it?

[SCOUT]

Murder is already illegal

[5thYearSooner]

Murder is already illegal

your point?

[SCOUT]

your point?

I will spell it out for you. A weapon was used to murder children and adults. Your problem is with the tool used. Your argument is that not everyone is responsible with them. Therefore guns should be banned.

People kill other people with their cars by being irresponsible. By your logic, cars should outlawed.

DUI is illegal and so is murder. The act is the illegal thing, not the tool used. Put the blame where it belongs.

[Turd_Ferguson]

your point?

It's on the top of your head...

[5thYearSooner]

It's on the top of your head...

Just flushed ya

[5thYearSooner]

I will spell it out for you. A weapon was used to murder children and adults. Your problem is with the tool used. Your argument is that not everyone is responsible with them. Therefore guns should be banned.

People kill other people with their cars by being irresponsible. By your logic, cars should outlawed.

DUI is illegal and so is murder. The act is the illegal thing, not the tool used. Put the blame where it belongs.

People cant conceal a car, they don't use it to kill little kids sitting in their class room. Or people shopping in a mall or watching a movie..
Its a very lame comparison you made and you know it.

[SCOUT]

People cant conceal a car, they don't use it to kill little kids sitting in their class room. Or people shopping in a mall or watching a movie..
Its a very lame comparison you made and you know it.

I completely disagree. When a car plows into a crowd of people...

Look, I see that you don't like guns but you are the one reaching here.

[5thYearSooner]

By your logic all drugs should be legal. The act a person commits after using drugs might be illegal..but we shouldn't outlaw drugs because they are just a tool in the crime committed

[Tiptonsooner]

Drugs didn't kill elementary kids. A person with drugs didn't kill them either. Its not feel good bull ****..I'm glad your high tech guns are safely locked. This 20 year old kid's mom probably thought the same way you are thinking. You might be a responsible guy but that doesn't mean every other gun owner is.

Oh, so you understand the guns weren't the problem then. You acknowledge it was personal responsibility. So, as a responsible, law abiding person, why should I be punished by more gun laws? Wasn't it already illegal for this idiot to kill a room full of 5 year olds? Yet he did it... Wasn't it illegal to carry a firearm on school property? Yet he did it...
Wonder what law could be added that he might've observed?

You are an idiot.....

[SCOUT]

By your logic all drugs should be legal. The act a person commits after using drugs might be illegal..but we shouldn't outlaw drugs because they are just a tool in the crime committed

OK, I tried. I now see that you just don't understand the concepts. Best of luck to you.

[5thYearSooner]

Oh, so you understand the guns weren't the problem then. You acknowledge it was personal responsibility. So, as a responsible, law abiding person, why should I be punished by more gun laws? Wasn't it already illegal for this idiot to kill a room full of 5 year olds? Yet he did it... Wasn't it illegal to carry a firearm on school property? Yet he did it...
Wonder what law could be added that he might've observed?

You are an idiot.....

Guns are a problem. Gun laws are not enough. Look at other countries and their laws and their gun related crime. You are a responsible and law abiding citizen now but you still have the capability to murder a lot of people with your gun. For a lot of these mass murderers that act is their first and only crime.

[5thYearSooner]

OK, I tried. I now see that you just don't understand the concepts. Best of luck to you.

feeling is mutual

[LiveLaughLove]

OK, I tried. I now see that you just don't understand the concepts. Best of luck to you.

He understands the concept, he just cares more than you do. You don't care about those kids and he wants you to know he does.

His way of showing that is to want guns banned. Your way of showing you don't care is blaming the person and not the guns. Very callous of you.

There are far more people today with guns than at any time in our history, and overall, gun crimes are down. The states with the most lax gun laws are the safest.

The ones with the strictest are the most deadly (Chicago, IL says hello). But none of that matters to them, we live in the here and now, and the emotion of the here and now, and here and now, he cares more than you and I.

[5thYearSooner]

He understands the concept, he just cares more than you do. You don't care about those kids and he wants you to know he does.

His way of showing that is to want guns banned. Your way of showing you don't care is blaming the person and not the guns. Very callous of you.

There are far more people today with guns than at any time in our history, and overall, gun crimes are down. The states with the most lax gun laws are the safest.

The ones with the strictest are the most deadly (Chicago, IL says hello). But none of that matters to them, we live in the here and now, and the emotion of the here and now, and here and now, he cares more than you and I.

Im sure you all care as much as I do but you think you are being 'punished' if govt brings more gun laws. I think gun violence is mostly gang related. Canada has tougher laws than US and yet the gun violence is low. Highly populated countries like china and India have strict laws and their gun violence is low. So I dont know why its different in US where tougher gun laws = more violence.

[5thYearSooner]

My prayers for all the affected. Good night

[diverdog]

I am not sure this is a solvable situation. If it were me I would attack this on several fronts. First, I would hire the best Israeli security team in the world and ask them how to make our schools safer and then fund the recommendation. They may suggest weapon detectors, guards and armored doors for instance.

Secondly to appease gun control advocates I would close the so called gun show loophole and develop a more rigorous system for background checks.

Third I would allow C&C in schools for those teachers who are willing to go through rigorous training and would have to qualify at a range each year.

Finally, there is the problem of legally purchased firearms being used in these crimes. I believe several of them used the guns of other family members. The only way to possibly address this is to adopt a European model that makes the gun owner liable if the guns are not secured in a safe. In otherwords you could lose everything if your kid goes on a shooting rampage. To encourage safe ownership a one time tax credit could be offered for the purchase of a safe.

DD

[olevetonahill]

Guns are a problem. Gun laws are not enough. Look at other countries and their laws and their gun related crime. You are a responsible and law abiding citizen now but you still have the capability to murder a lot of people with your gun. For a lot of these mass murderers that act is their first and only crime.

So Government is the Answer? Boy, Governments can and do KILL a lot of people, Like you said Look at other country's. By your logic Governments should be outlawed.
Like ive said before about a few others her . Trying to follow your logic is like chasin chickens

[cleller]

Its would also be interesting to take a hard look at how our changes in our society and government over the last 50 years may relate to these sort of events.

[kevpks]

I am not sure this is a solvable situation. If it were me I would attack this on several fronts. First, I would hire the best Israeli security team in the world and ask them how to make our schools safer and then fund the recommendation. They may suggest weapon detectors, guards and armored doors for instance.

Secondly to appease gun control advocates I would close the so called gun show loophole and develop a more rigorous system for background checks.

Third I would allow C&C in schools for those teachers who are willing to go through rigorous training and would have to qualify at a range each year.

Finally, there is the problem of legally purchased firearms being used in these crimes. I believe several of them used the guns of other family members. The only way to possibly address this is to adopt a European model that makes the gun owner liable if the guns are not secured in a safe. In otherwords you could lose everything if your kid goes on a shooting rampage. To encourage safe ownership a one time tax credit could be offered for the purchase of a safe.

DD

C&C in a school would never fly. There is just no way that would ever be allowed to happen. Teachers unions might be weakened but I am sure they would put all of their muscle behind fighting that, and they would have the support of the majority of parents. The potential benefit of a teacher who happened to be carrying a gun being in a position to use it in a situation like this is so remote that it is not even worth it for gun advocates to pursue it as an option. I don't see why gun advocates would push such an unrealistic and unpopular solution, and I can't imagine any congressman putting his name on a bill like that. The other steps sound prudent and reasonable to me.

[olevetonahill]

C&C in a school would never fly. There is just no way that would ever be allowed to happen. Teachers unions might be weakened but I am sure they would put all of their muscle behind fighting that, and they would have the support of the majority of parents. The potential benefit of a teacher who happened to be carrying a gun being in a position to use it in a situation like this is so remote that it is not even worth it for gun advocates to pursue it as an option. I don't see why gun advocates would push such an unrealistic and unpopular solution, and I can't imagine any congressman putting his name on a bill like that. The other steps sound prudent and reasonable to me.

I didnt see anyone "Pushing" the idea, It was simply put out as potential solution

I agree the Odds of a Teacher being Armed and being in a position to Need to use are very slim . Yet so are the odds of some asswipe coming on to school grounds and killing kids, Do the math , How many schools are here, How many get a shooting occurrence on campus?

[kevpks]

So Government is the Answer? Boy, Governments can and do KILL a lot of people, Like you said Look at other country's. By your logic Governments should be outlawed.
Like ive said before about a few others her . Trying to follow your logic is like chasin chickens

I've got to agree with your comment on governments. China and North Korea don't have much gun crime from citizens. They also have brutal governments that routinely violate basic human rights and dignity. Not a good tradeoff in my book.

[kevpks]

I didnt see anyone "Pushing" the idea, It was simply put out as potential solution

I agree the Odds of a Teacher being Armed and being in a position to Need to use are very slim . Yet so are the odds of some asswipe coming on to school grounds and killing kids, Do the math , How many schools are here, How many get a shooting occurrence on campus?

Quote from diver dog: "Third I would allow C&C in schools for those teachers who are willing to go through rigorous training and would have to qualify at a range each year." He was pushing the idea. I was responding to his multi-step proposal. I thought that part of it was not worth pursuing.

[GrapevineSooner]

C&C in a school would never fly. There is just no way that would ever be allowed to happen. Teachers unions might be weakened but I am sure they would put all of their muscle behind fighting that, and they would have the support of the majority of parents. The potential benefit of a teacher who happened to be carrying a gun being in a position to use it in a situation like this is so remote that it is not even worth it for gun advocates to pursue it as an option. I don't see why gun advocates would push such an unrealistic and unpopular solution, and I can't imagine any congressman putting his name on a bill like that. The other steps sound prudent and reasonable to me.

What if one of your fellow teachers was ex-military?

I mean, go back to the Aurora, CO shooting. One of the victims was in the Navy, aspired to be a Navy SEAL, and had already served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. But our society here didn't trust him to use his firearms training because the theater he was at was a gun free zone.

It amazes me how people are open to the idea of a armed guard patrolling their school, but aren't open to a fellow civilian in their profession going through the same level of training that the armed guard does to get a license to carry their firearm in class.

Course, it also amazes me how people don't see the correlation between gun free zones and mass killings. Gun free zones do nothing but guarantee that the shooter will meet almost little to no resistance while they're committing their atrocities.

Just imagine if the brave counselor and teachers who confronted Adam Lanza had gone through such training.

[kevpks]

I didnt see anyone "Pushing" the idea, It was simply put out as potential solution

I agree the Odds of a Teacher being Armed and being in a position to Need to use are very slim . Yet so are the odds of some asswipe coming on to school grounds and killing kids, Do the math , How many schools are here, How many get a shooting occurrence on campus?

The odds are extremely remote. That is why I favor planning and solutions that everyone can implement, not more guns in classrooms where kids can potentially get to them. If I were carrying my gun on campus, my focus would be on keeping that gun secure at all times. It would make it harder to focus on my job. However, I like the steps that have been taken. My campus had rooms that didn't even have doors a few years ago, now every one has a door that could lock. There is a larger police presence. We're all trained in ways to respond to this such as not running in a straight line down a hallway if there is a shooter. I'm more vigilant of warning signs from potentially troubled students, etc.

[olevetonahill]

Quote from diver dog: "Third I would allow C&C in schools for those teachers who are willing to go through rigorous training and would have to qualify at a range each year." He was pushing the idea. I was responding to his multi-step proposal. I thought that part of it was not worth pursuing.

1st DD is a Lib. Second His statement simply says HE would allow, Again I say he wasnt PUSHING the idea yet merely puttin it out for discussion
Guess its just semantics .

[olevetonahill]

The odds are extremely remote. That is why I favor planning and solutions that everyone can implement, not more guns in classrooms where kids can potentially get to them. If I were carrying my gun on campus, my focus would be on keeping that gun secure at all times. It would make it harder to focus on my job. However, I like the steps that have been taken. My campus had rooms that didn't even have doors a few years ago, now every one has a door that could lock. There is a larger police presence. We're all trained in ways to respond to this such as not running in a straight line down a hallway if there is a shooter. I'm more vigilant of warning signs from potentially troubled students, etc.

So you use Common sense? Thats what we need, Not More"Oh No Guns are evil and must me eradicated" .

Again what are the Odds of a shooting even happening at your school? one in a Million? 1 in 10 Million?
My point being as tragic as this crap is , Lets not get all knee jerk reactionary over it.

Yes something Should and must be done to stop this or even make the odds greater than they are. But Passing More Unenforceable laws isn't the answer, Taking away LAW abiding citizens rights isn't the answer.

Yet there must be one that we can all agree on

[kevpks]

What if one of your fellow teachers was ex-military?

I mean, go back to the Aurora, CO shooting. One of the victims was in the Navy, aspired to be a Navy SEAL, and had already served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. But our society here didn't trust him to use his firearms training because the theater he was at was a gun free zone.

It amazes me how people are open to the idea of a armed guard patrolling their school, but aren't open to a fellow civilian in their profession going through the same level of training that the armed guard does to get a license to carry their firearm in class.

Course, it also amazes me how people don't see the correlation between gun free zones and mass killings. Gun free zones do nothing but guarantee that the shooter will meet almost little to no resistance while they're committing their atrocities.

Just imagine if the brave counselor and teachers who confronted Adam Lanza had gone through such training.

A theatre is different than a workplace to me. I trust armed security guards and police more because security is their profession and their sole focus while on duty. My focus is teaching when I'm at school. If a teacher or administrator went through the same rigorous training, I suppose I would be confident in their abilities to handle firearms. The logistics would be difficult. Teachers go to student's desks to help them and answer questions.

If I were carrying a gun, the kid behind me would have easy access to it. If it were in my bag, it's not secure. If it were in a safe, that might work but it wouldn't help if someone burst in to my classroom. I suppose I am responding more the feasibility of this idea more than the rationale for it. A highly trained person with a gun can save lives. I support the 2nd amendment. I just think having guns in schools is much more complicated than allowing people watching a movie to carry a gun, which I do fully support.

[LiveLaughLove]

The odds are extremely remote. That is why I favor planning and solutions that everyone can implement, not more guns in classrooms where kids can potentially get to them. If I were carrying my gun on campus, my focus would be on keeping that gun secure at all times. It would make it harder to focus on my job. However, I like the steps that have been taken. My campus had rooms that didn't even have doors a few years ago, now every one has a door that could lock. There is a larger police presence. We're all trained in ways to respond to this such as not running in a straight line down a hallway if there is a shooter. I'm more vigilant of warning signs from potentially troubled students, etc.

No one is saying YOU have to carry a gun. Only those teachers that are trained and would want to do so.

I promise if something ever happened at your school and you knew the teacher next door carried, your butt would be in that teachers classroom lickety split, because you would know your chances of survival just went up exponentially.

Just being a sitting duck hoping a gunman doesn't choose your classroom door to open wouldn't cut it for me.

[Midtowner]

The odds are extremely remote. That is why I favor planning and solutions that everyone can implement, not more guns in classrooms where kids can potentially get to them. If I were carrying my gun on campus, my focus would be on keeping that gun secure at all times. It would make it harder to focus on my job. However, I like the steps that have been taken. My campus had rooms that didn't even have doors a few years ago, now every one has a door that could lock. There is a larger police presence. We're all trained in ways to respond to this such as not running in a straight line down a hallway if there is a shooter. I'm more vigilant of warning signs from potentially troubled students, etc.

I'm not sure whether I've mentioned this, but courthouses have similar problems. We've had a few shootings at courthouses over the past few years. Some of those have involved folks taking guns away from deputies. Bringing more guns into the situation does not necessarily enhance safety.

[kevpks]

No one is saying YOU have to carry a gun. Only those teachers that are trained and would want to do so.

I promise if something ever happened at your school and you knew the teacher next door carried, your butt would be in that teachers classroom lickety split, because you would know your chances of survival just went up exponentially.


Honestly, if I had the right to carry a gun on campus I might consider it. I just have concerns. Also, locking a barricading a door is safer in my book than going into the hallway where there is an active shooter to seek out the teacher who is carrying a gun. That makes no sense to me. Also, how would responding law enforcement sort out shooters from law abiding citizens? That's a serious question.

[olevetonahill]

I'm not sure whether I've mentioned this, but courthouses have similar problems. We've had a few shootings at courthouses over the past few years. Some of those have involved folks taking guns away from deputies. Bringing more guns into the situation does not necessarily enhance safety.

These deputies that you asre sayin were overpowered and lost their weapons, Were they the Fat Donut eaters that aint worth a ****? Has to be any Officer worth a shat is trained to protect their weapon .
How about giving some links to these events ?

[GrapevineSooner]

I'm not sure whether I've mentioned this, but courthouses have similar problems. We've had a few shootings at courthouses over the past few years. Some of those have involved folks taking guns away from deputies. Bringing more guns into the situation does not necessarily enhance safety.

I'd be willing to bet there have been a ton more mass murders in gun free zones than at courthouses. In fact, I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

And that's probably because IF a criminal managed to wrestle a gun away from a deputy, there would be another deputy nearby who would shoot the guy.

[Midtowner]

And that's probably because IF a criminal managed to wrestle a gun away from a deputy, there would be another deputy nearby who would shoot the guy.

Not really. Due to budget cuts, deputies are often left to escort multiple prisoners by themselves, or worse, I've been to several VPO dockets (where victims of domestic violence and their abusers appear together--nothing could possibly go wrong, right?) where the only deputy on the floor is a 4'10" female.

[GrapevineSooner]

Honestly, if I had the right to carry a gun on campus I might consider it. I just have concerns. Also, locking a barricading a door is safer in my book than going into the hallway where there is an active shooter to seek out the teacher who is carrying a gun. That makes no sense to me. Also, how would responding law enforcement sort out shooters from law abiding citizens? That's a serious question.

How do they normally differentiate between a criminal and a law-abiding citizen with a gun?

They tell you to freeze, drop your weapon, and then they detain you.

And then sort all the rest of that stuff out later.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Vet:

Sooner or later there is going to be a tragedy large enough that the political will to clamp down on guns is going to happen. This maybe that tragedy.
no way in hell!!! It is a God given RIGHT!

now we find out the perp stole his Mom's guns... How is a gun law going to change that?

leave the guns and our right alone!!!

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

no way in hell!!! It is a God given RIGHT!


remember that part when jesus told peter to put his sword away?

[Midtowner]

no way in hell!!! It is a God given RIGHT!

I bring you the enactment of the Bill of Rights:

http://bobkaylor.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345304b969e2011278da445928a4-800wi

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

a more modern depiction

http://lucien0maverick.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/one-nation-under-god-painting.jpg

Lincoln actually wrote both the Bill of Rights and the Bible before Jesus stole them

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You guys are fools. You sure make fun, but have no answers...

[Midtowner]

You guys are fools. You sure make fun, but have no answers...

Well when the best you guys can do is blame violent video games without a whit of evidence, you aren't doing much better.

Why are we fools, what is it that we've said wrong?

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

You guys are fools. You sure make fun, but have no answers...
"And the LORD said, let them own firearms of all calibers, bores, gauges, and rates of fire, and let not their right be disturbed by the Federal government which I have ordained"

I think that verse is right next to "The LORD helps those who help themselves"

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Amen and pass the ammunition...

[diverdog]

From the liberal magazine The Atlantic:


What Can We Do to Stop Massacres?


DEC 14 2012, 2:59 PM ET 708 (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/12/what-can-we-do-to-stop-massacres/266300/#disqus_thread)The massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, has caused many people, including people at the White House, to say that this is not the day to talk about gun policy. This day is obviously for mourning the dead, but I don't understand why we shouldn't talk about the conditions that lead to these sorts of shootings. I wrote about this issue in the current issue of The Atlantic (you can read the story here (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-case-for-more-guns-and-more-gun-control/309161/)), and I want to quickly make a few points drawn from that longer article.

1) This is a gun country. We are saturated with guns. There are as many as 300 million guns in circulation today (the majority owned legally, but many not) and more than 4 million new guns come onto the market each year. To talk about eradicating guns, especially given what the Supreme Court has said about the individual right to gun-ownership, is futile.

2) There are, however, some gun control laws that could be strengthened. The so-called gun-show loophole (which is not a loophole at all -- 40 percent of all guns sold in America legally are sold without benefit of a federal background check) should be closed. Background checks are no panacea -- many of our country's recent mass-shooters had no previous criminal records, and had not been previously adjudicated mentally ill -- but they would certainly stop some people from buying weapons.

3) We must find a way to make it more difficult for the non-adjudicated mentally ill to come into possession of weapons. This is crucially important, but very difficult, because it would require the cooperation of the medical community -- of psychiatrists, therapists, school counselors and the like -- and the privacy issues (among other issues) are enormous. But: It has to be made more difficult for sociopaths, psychopaths and the otherwise violently mentally-ill (who, in total, make up a small portion of the mentally ill population) to buy weapons.

4) People should have the ability to defend themselves. Mass shootings take many lives in part because no one is firing back at the shooters. The shooters in recent massacres have had many minutes to complete their evil work, while their victims cower under desks or in closets. One response to the tragic reality that we are a gun-saturated country is to understand that law-abiding, well-trained, non-criminal, wholly sane citizens who are screened by the government have a role to play in their own self-defense, and in the defense of others (read The Atlantic article to see how one armed school administrator stopped a mass shooting in Pearl Mississippi). I don't know anything more than anyone else about the shooting in Connecticut at the moment, but it seems fairly obvious that there was no one at or near the school who could have tried to fight back.

5) All of this is tragic. As I wrote in The Atlantic, Canada, which has a low-rate of gun ownership and strict gun laws, seems like a pretty nice place sometimes.


UPDATE: It's worth noting what President Obama said during the October 16th debate (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/2012-presidential-debate-full-transcript-oct-16/story?id=17493848&singlePage=true#.UMuksc1DFD9): "We're a nation that believes in the Second Amendment, and I believe in the Second Amendment. We've got a long tradition of hunting and sportsmen and people who want to make sure they can protect themselves."

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

^ I don't see how anyone would disagree with that

[diverdog]

Here is another article from The Atlantic Magazine that I read at lunch on Thursday. Again The Atlantic is a left of center magazine politically but as far as I am concerned very well written and researched. In this article the author makes a case for more guns and C&C to stop these type of massacres. I agree.

Part of the article is posted and the link is below. It is a very good read.


The Case for More Guns (And More Gun Control)

How do we reduce gun crime and Aurora-style mass shootings when Americans already own nearly 300 million firearms? Maybe by allowing more people to carry them.




By JEFFREY GOLDBERG (http://www.theatlantic.com/jeffrey-goldberg/)


http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/newsroom/img/2012/11/26/1212%20WEL%20Guns_lede/mag-article-large.jpg?me48ax
Sven Liendbaek

The Century 16 Cineplex in Aurora, Colorado, stands desolate behind a temporary green fence, which was raised to protect the theater from prying eyes and mischief-makers. The parking lots that surround the multiplex are empty—weeds are pushing through the asphalt—and the only person at the theater when I visited a few weeks ago was an enervated Aurora police officer assigned to guard the site.
I asked the officer whether the building, which has stood empty since the night of July 20, when a former graduate student named James E. Holmes is alleged to have killed 12 people and wounded 58 others at a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises, still drew the curious. “People drive by to look,” he said, but “not too many.” The Aurora massacre is noteworthy, even in the crowded field of mass shootings, as one of the more wretched and demoralizing in the recent history of American violence, and I was surprised that the scene of the crime did not attract more attention. “I guess people move on,” he said.
I walked up a slight rise that provided an imperfect view of the back of Theater 9, where the massacre took place, and tried to imagine the precise emotions the victims felt as the gunfire erupted.
“The shooting started at a quiet moment in the movie,” Stephen Barton told me. He was shot in the opening fusillade. “I saw this canister-type thing, a smoking object, streak across the screen. I thought it was a kid with fireworks playing a prank.”
Barton is 22 years old. He had been preparing to leave for Russia this fall on a Fulbright scholarship. “The first feeling I remember was bewilderment. I don’t remember having a single thought before I was shot, because I was shot early on. I was sitting in the middle of the row, toward the back. I got blasted in my head, neck, and face—my whole upper body—by shotgun pellets.”
As he lay wounded on the floor by his seat, he said, his bafflement gave way to panic. “I had this unwillingness to accept that this was actually happening. I wanted to believe that there was no way that someone in the same room as me was shooting at people,” he said. “So it was disbelief and also this really strong feeling that I’m not ready to die. I’m at someone else’s mercy. I’ve never felt more helpless.”
In the chaos of smoke and gunshots, Barton saw the emergency exit door open, and managed to escape into the parking lot. “If I hadn’t seen that door, I might not have made it,” he said.







http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-case-for-more-guns-and-more-gun-control/309161/

[C&CDean]

My only beef with the above is "screened by the government." Other than that, I'm OK with it.

[GrapevineSooner]

The answer isn't necessarily that you let more people have guns. It's to let the ones who have been trained to use them actually use them when the situation calls for it.

If there's one thing I can't wrap my brain around, it's the ignorant attitudes that gun control supporters display towards owners of guns. They have absolutely no concept of the amount of respect 99.999999% of gun owners have for their firearms.

They know what they're capable of.

They know how important gun safety is to them and to their loved ones.

And they damn sure know how to use them.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

My only beef with the above is "screened by the government." Other than that, I'm OK with it.
So you'd be in favor of selling firearms to schizophrenics?

[C&CDean]

So you'd be in favor of selling firearms to schizophrenics?

Sure I'd sell em to liberals.

[olevetonahill]

Well when the best you guys can do is blame violent video games without a whit of evidence, you aren't doing much better.

Why are we fools, what is it that we've said wrong?

This single post by YOU , Proves that you are an Idiot.
Matlock you are as stupid as SCS

[LiveLaughLove]

I bring you the enactment of the Bill of Rights:

http://bobkaylor.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345304b969e2011278da445928a4-800wi

Hardly a day goes by that I can't count on some lib on here of hitting the blasphemy button once or twice.

Thanks for not disappointing.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Hardly a day goes by that I can't count on some lib on here of hitting the blasphemy button once or twice.

Thanks for not disappointing.
Strike me down

http://beitor.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/baal-worship.jpg

[LiveLaughLove]

Strike me down

http://beitor.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/baal-worship.jpg

He will. Way way way down.

But not before you bend your knees and confess him as Lord. It will just be too late then.

[Turd_Ferguson]

He will. Way way way down.

But not before you bend your knees and confess him as Lord. It will just be too late then.

Word.

[C&CDean]

Up.

[soonercruiser]

remember that part when jesus told peter to put his sword away?

Nothing like quoting from Scripture...OUT OF CONTEXT!
Duh!

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Nothing like quoting from Scripture...OUT OF CONTEXT!
Duh!
turn the other cheek mother****ers

[soonercruiser]

turn the other cheek mother****ers

Every time I turn to the other cheek, my butt burps!
:biggrin:

[EnragedOUfan]

Drastic times require drastic measures.........I'd be all for metal detectors and a police officer posted at every school in the nation. Just like the Patriot Act, sometimes crazy sh$t needs to happen, especially with the high number of nut jobs running around in America.

If we can afford to be at war for 11 plus years, we could afford posting officers at every school. If it required a tax increase, so be it. I get that gun violence can't be prevented, but there are things that can sure as hell mitigate sh#t from happening....

[SCOUT]

Drastic times require drastic measures.........I'd be all for metal detectors and a police officer posted at every school in the nation. Just like the Patriot Act, sometimes crazy sh$t needs to happen, especially with the high number of nut jobs running around in America.
If we can afford to be at war for 11 plus years, we could afford posting officers at every school. If it required a tax increase, so be it. I get that gun violence can't be prevented, but there are things that can sure as hell mitigate sh#t from happening....
Do we do the same thing for movie theaters? What about day cares? Sporting events? Restaurants? And so on...

[5thYearSooner]

Drastic times require drastic measures.........I'd be all for metal detectors and a police officer posted at every school in the nation. Just like the Patriot Act, sometimes crazy sh$t needs to happen, especially with the high number of nut jobs running around in America.
If we can afford to be at war for 11 plus years, we could afford posting officers at every school. If it required a tax increase, so be it. I get that gun violence can't be prevented, but there are things that can sure as hell mitigate sh#t from happening....
Do we do the same thing for movie theaters? What about day cares? Sporting events? Restaurants? And so on...


We can't. Lets just get rid of hitech
guns instead. So freaks can't get them from store or steal from their mothers. Good ol revolvers for safety. I'm pretty sure that girl in okla who shot her intruder would have accomplished the same by using a revolver

[diverdog]

We can't. Lets just get rid of hitech
guns instead. So freaks can't get them from store or steal from their mothers. Good ol revolvers for safety. I'm pretty sure that girl in okla who shot her intruder would have accomplished the same by using a revolver

It is to late to do anything about it. Guns make us both free and less free at the same time.

[olevetonahill]

It is to late to do anything about it. Guns make us both free and less free at the same time.

Yup, If we could magically wave a wand and make all guns disappear , why couldnt we just wave the same wand and make Crazy disappear instead?

[Tiptonsooner]

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_30097.php

This is why our rights must not be infringed....

[sappstuf]

We can't. Lets just get rid of hitech
guns instead. So freaks can't get them from store or steal from their mothers. Good ol revolvers for safety. I'm pretty sure that girl in okla who shot her intruder would have accomplished the same by using a revolver

High tech?? I don't think rail guns are really part of the problem...

[C&CDean]

We can't. Lets just get rid of hitech
guns instead. So freaks can't get them from store or steal from their mothers. Good ol revolvers for safety. I'm pretty sure that girl in okla who shot her intruder would have accomplished the same by using a revolver

Let's get rid of high tech video games. **** yeah!! Pong, Asteroids and Ms Pacman for everybody!!

[pphilfran]

Type of weapon used in US murders...murders peaked in 1993

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/hom...weaponstab.cfm

1993
Handgun 13.981
Other gun 3,094
Knife 3,140 (more people killed by knife than rifle and shotgun combined)
Blunt object 1,082
Other weapon 3.233

2005
Handgun 8.478
Other gun 2.868
Knife 2,147
Blunt object 671
Other weapon 2.528

[pphilfran]

By age group

1993 Gun/Non gun
Under age 14 123/44
13-17 3,543/777
18-24 8,569/2,617
Over 24 7.244/4,720

2005 Gun/Non gun
Under age 14 24/35 (Down from 1993)
13-17 1,193/418
18-24 5,790/1,924
Over 24 5,665/4,077

24 and under account for about 2/3 of homicide by gun
24 and under account for about 1/3 of homicide by other

Young uns like their guns...

[pphilfran]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/age1_zps1fca9333.jpg

[pphilfran]

If I am not mistaken in most states you must be 21 to buy a handgun and 18 to buy a rifle...

So how did all of those underage murders take place with an already illegal handgun?

[yermom]

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_30097.php

This is why our rights must not be infringed....

those are crazy numbers.

[yermom]

Hardly a day goes by that I can't count on some lib on here of hitting the blasphemy button once or twice.

Thanks for not disappointing.

how is this blasphemy? when did God write the 2nd amendment?

[5thYearSooner]

Let's get rid of high tech video games. **** yeah!! Pong, Asteroids and Ms Pacman for everybody!!

Im ok with that. Better than Grand theft autos or other games with all sorts of weapons in it.

[kevpks]

Question from the yahoo article on the massacre:


Among the questions: Why did his mother, a well-to-do suburban divorcee, keep a cache of high-power weapons in the house? What experience did Lanza have with those guns? And, above all, what set him on a path to go classroom-by-classroom, massacring 6- and 7-year-olds?

http://news.yahoo.com/gov-gunman-shot-self-1st-responders-closed-152837726.html

I am not a gun enthusiast and have no real interest in owning one; however, that first question is a little odd to me. I think the woman was foolish to have accessible guns around a mentally disturbed individual (if that was the case). I just don't see why it is suspicious or odd for a "well-to-do suburban divorcee" to legally own guns. Why bring that up? From that perspective, for whom would owning guns be normal? Men? Less "well-to-do" people?

Also, I don't have a lot of knowledge of guns and I keep seeing the phrase "high powered" thrown around. What does that phrase mean? I've heard automatic and semi-automatic and I know what that means, but aren't most modern hand guns and rifles high powered?

[olevetonahill]

If it can Kill ya, Its HIGH POWERED

[okiewaker]

I recently bought an A/R. Anyone know when the urge to go shoot up a school kicks in?

[olevetonahill]

I recently bought an A/R. Anyone know when the urge to go shoot up a school kicks in?

Only after you get at least 3 High Capacity Magazines and 2 hand guns with High Cap mags as well.

[yermom]

Question from the yahoo article on the massacre:



http://news.yahoo.com/gov-gunman-shot-self-1st-responders-closed-152837726.html

I am not a gun enthusiast and have no real interest in owning one; however, that first question is a little odd to me. I think the woman was foolish to have accessible guns around a mentally disturbed individual (if that was the case). I just don't see why it is suspicious or odd for a "well-to-do suburban divorcee" to legally own guns. Why bring that up? From that perspective, for whom would owning guns be normal? Men? Less "well-to-do" people?

Also, I don't have a lot of knowledge of guns and I keep seeing the phrase "high powered" thrown around. What does that phrase mean? I've heard automatic and semi-automatic and I know what that means, but aren't most modern hand guns and rifles high powered?

i think .223 counts as "high-powered"

apparently she used to go shooting with her kids

[okiewaker]

I don't have that yet. Guess its why there's a delay.

[okiewaker]

Didn't BTK, and others, do same thing as CT guy,,,but a much slower fashion, and with no guns?

[OU_Sooners75]

So everyone who doesn't have the capacity to turn into an action hero when faced with a mass murderer is a coward? Locking and barricading a door while looking after your students is just as heroic as coming out blasting in my opinion.

Plus, I would not call the majority of the 18-24 year old I teach "level headed." That's not a typical trait of that age group. Does a background check and the minimal training it takes to own a gun really get a person ready to deal with what we saw today?

And no I don't think much of my colleagues when it comes to the ability to handle firearms in a life or death situation. Some can barely handle the stress of grading or faculty meetings. I didn't even say they shouldn't have the right. I just don't think it is a workable solution and I'm not comfortable with it.

I think your underestimating yourself.

It is human nature to react to dangerous situations and to preserve life, in particular ones own life.

If your sane and not mentally ill that is.

A few year back I never thought I had it in me to jump in a river to help aperson in need that couldn't swim.

Guess what, I'm not an action hero. Just an ordinary joe. But I jumped in and helped that person and two others. Without my reaction ithose three would have certaintly died. And they were all kids.

My point? Even when you doubt yourself in a life threatening situation, you would be amazed at how you will react and overcome to help someone or even yourself!

[okiewaker]

Dahmer kilt a bunch of ppl too,,,but he used alcohol and a Dewalt.

[OU_Sooners75]

Now as far a gun control.

I ask, will it keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazies or those of us that are law abiding citizens?

The answer, it will keep them out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

Yes something need to be done, but more gun control is not the answer. The people that create these situations like in Connecticut didn't buy their guns legally, if at all. They stole them or bought them illegally.

What needs to be done? Maybe we should stop allowing the government to erode the morals of this nation. Allow God back in schools and public venues, hell even in government.

Not saying we should make a religious government, but there is nothing wrong with havinga secular governemtn with religion as a moral ground.

There are three parts to every human. Body, Spirit, and Mind. And currently our nation has allowed the government to take the spirite out of our nation just to appease everyone!

[okiewaker]

So it's really not the gun the Libs have a prob with,,,,,it's the speed of which it reloads and fires another projectile?

[kevpks]

I think your underestimating yourself.

It is human nature to react to dangerous situations and to preserve life, in particular ones own life.

If your sane and not mentally ill that is.

A few year back I never thought I had it in me to jump in a river to help aperson in need that couldn't swim.

Guess what, I'm not an action hero. Just an ordinary joe. But I jumped in and helped that person and two others. Without my reaction ithose three would have certaintly died. And they were all kids.

My point? Even when you doubt yourself in a life threatening situation, you would be amazed at how you will react and overcome to help someone or even yourself!

My point is that heroism is not defined solely by directly confronting a gunman in that situation but looking out for the people you are responsible for. I teach adults but while they are in my classroom, they are my responsibility. I would lock and barricade the door and wait for the authorities if there were an active gunman on campus. That is what we've been trained to do and I don't think it's cowardly.

[okiewaker]

Manson kilt ppl too but his weapon of choice was people. We should ban particular groups of ppl. Weed out those that come from a crappy gene pool. Keep all the blue eye blond hair tofu eaters with six packs. IMO

[okiewaker]

You don't have ban any type of gun to slow down gun violence. Just speed up the repeal process and make executions viewable to the public. The Execution Channel (TEC) brought to you by,,,,,,S & W.

[okiewaker]

(TEC) channel would most def have to be placed on the #9 channel so we could call it TEC9. It would fall under the PBS umbrella and PSA's and amber type alerts would broadcast whenever a execution is about to take place. Sounds like a money maker to me. Libs,,,,jump on it.

[hawaii 5-0]

I grew up watching Westerns, Roy Rogers, Lone Ranger, etc. Also cartoons such as Mighty Mouse and Popeye. All were filled with violence.

They didn't make me a violent person.

I also enjoy 1st person shooters. I don't expect to become violent because of them.

5-0

[Wishboned]

After a tragedy like this everyone wants answers. Everyone wants something to blame. Something had to set the person off, something had to cause this.

But there are no answers. At least none we can understand. This guy was crazy. The color of the sky in his world wasn't the same color as the sky in ours. He could have been set off just as easily by watching My Little Pony.

[okiewaker]

I grew up watching The Three Stooges,,,I have no urge to bop someone's head but I do lack intelligence, like those three. I blame TV for my stupidity,,,,,BAN IT!!!!!!

[okiewaker]

Relax,,,Libs are just drilling down. They will eventually drill down to the culprit. It just takes them a while. Eventually they will realize guns don't just stand up and start shooting ppl. just like phone cords don't mysteriously wrap themselves around ppl's necks and start choking.

[pphilfran]

We need to eliminate:

Violent video games
Violent television
Violent movies
Boxing
MMA
Rifles
Pistols
Shotguns
Camo
Kevlar
Knives
Baseball bats
Drugs
Poison
Fertilizer
Fuel oil
Matches
Blasting caps
Bic lighters
Any gathering of 5 or more people
Pit bulls

Fixed...most murder and other heinous acts have been eliminated

[bluedogok]

The first acknowledged FPS (First Person Shooter) game on computers was Wolfenstein, that came out in 1992. This is a short list of mass murders occurring before 1992 from various sources. To blame anything on the FPS games is a fallacy, the fact is the majority of people who would commit this kind of crime has sever mental issues but everyone wants to seem to ignore the real culprit in this type of crime.

I remember some of the Oklahoma events, like the Geronimo killings, we were in Altus for my great-grandmothers funeral and there was a heightened sense of police presence around because they had not caught the killers yet.


October 16, 1991 - George Jo Hennard (23/20)
Hennard crashed his blue Ford pickup truck through the plate glass window of Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas. As he stepped out of the truck he screamed, "This is what Bell County has done to me! I hope all this is worth it, Texas!" Then he systematically opened fire throughout the cafeteria killing 23 and wounding 20. As he was running out of munitions he went to the rest room and put his last bullet in his brain. One surviving employee hid in the freezer. Another crawled into the dishwasher where he stayed hidden for almost a day.

August 17, 1991 - Wade Frankum (8)
In 1991 taxi driver Wade Frankum killed 8 people when he sprayed his chinese assault rifle in a suburban shopping mall in Strathfield, Australia. Then he killed himself.

November 13, 1990 -David Gray (13)
New Zealand's worst mass murderer, David slaughtered 13 people during a 24-hour rampage in the hamlet of Aramoana, a tiny seaside settlement in the province of Otago, near Dunedin in the South Island. He was finally shot dead by police.

October 14, 1990 - Jerry Lynn McCracken (4)
On the evening October 14, 1990, McCracken and David Keith Lawrence entered the New Ferndale Lounge in Tulsa. After drinking, when only three other customers and the bartender were inside, they decided to rob the lounge. All three customers and the bartender were shot and killed in the process. Lawrence was given a life sentence plus 20 years in prison in a plea agreement in which he testified against McCracken. At trial, McCracken testified that "I am not the one who pulled the trigger," blaming the murders on Lawrence. Just before his execution, however, McCracken admitted he was the triggerman and was ready to die. Before the murders, McCracken had been on parole for stabbing three people in a bar.

June 18, 1990 - James Edward Pough (8/5)
James Edward Pough walked in a GMC car loan office in Jacksonville, Florida and started shooting. Police said he was distraught over GMC's repossession of his red 1988 Pontiac. "Pop," as his neighbors called him, started his rampage the night before by killing a prostitute and her pimp. The next morning, at the GMC office, he randomly killed eight and wounded five others. When he saw no one else left alive he turned the gun on himself.

March 25, 1990 - Julio Gonzalez (87)
Cuban born Gonzalez came to the United States in the 1980 Mariel boat lift. Ten years later, in a fit of jealousy, he killed 87 partiers. Pissed off at his ex-girlfriend, Lydia Feliciano, who was dancing with someone else, Julio bought a buck's worth of gasoline and torched the Bronx's Happy Land Social Club killing nearly everyone inside. Only six survived. As luck would have it, one of them was lucky Lydia, his ex-girlfriend.

December 6, 1989 - Marc Lepine (15)
Marc loved guns and hated women, a combination that proved fatal in the fall of 1989. Marc went to the Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal dressed in typical mass-murdering fatigues looking for "feminists". In the twenty minutes that followed, he became Canada's reigning Mayhem King by killing fourteen female students and a school secretary, saving the last bullet for himself. He shot his first female in the hallway, then walked into a class, asked the men to leave and shouted "You're all a bunch of feminists! I hate feminists!" He killed six of them. With a big smile on his face he proceeded to kill three more "feminists" in the cafeteria and four on another floor before blowing his head off.

December 22/28, 1987 - Ronald Gene Simmons Sr. (16)
This hillbilly from hell allegedly was the father of his daughter's son. In Christmas, 1987, he killed his whole family after his wife threatened with divorce. Gene killed fourteen members of his inbred clan making his the most proficient family annihilator of the Archives. When he was arrested for two other unrelated murders, the police sensed something suspicious about the way he talked about his family. When they went to his property they discovered the bunch of them dead.

December 8, 1987 - Frank Vitkovic (8)
Like the U.S., Australia has also had it's share of postal rampages. In 1987 Melbourne law student Frank Vitkovic rampaged through an Australian Post Office building killing 8 and injuring 17 before leaping to his death from the 11th floor.

December 7, 1987 - David Burke (43)
David Burke, a fired airline employee, followed his ex-boss onboard a Pacific Southwest Airline jet with his mind set on revenge. He shot the man in mid-flight and caused the plane to crash, killing all 43 people onboard including himself.

August 19, 1987 - Michael Ryan (16/14)
27-year-old Michael Ryan shot to death 16 people and wounded 14 others in the small farming community of Hungerford, approximately 60 miles west of London. After a "Rambo style" blood fest through the streets of Hungerford, he entrenched himself in a school building where he ended his life with a gunshot to his head. The gunman, a loner who lived with his elderly mother, loved guns and television violence. The film Rambo III was banned in several towns in the UK, because of Mike's claim of being inspired by Rambo movie.ies.

August 7, 1987 - Julian Knight (8)
A failed Australian military cadet, Julian shot his way into infamy on August 7, 1987, as he mowed down 7 and wounded 19 on a busy Melbourne street. After his arrest, the 19-year-old maniac blamed the military for his rampage: "They trained me to kill, and I killed." At one with his role of media star, Julian criticized local police for their slow response to his attack and announced plans to write the definitive account of his rampage, casting himself as the hero. Julian thought his behavior was a result of being ousted from the Royal Military College, where He was he was regularly beat up by his fellow cadets who thought he was a wimp. Adding insult to injury, he was rejected by his girlfriend. And, when the gear box of his car blew up, it pushed him right over the edge. Curiously, the killer counted being adopted and not being breast-fed among his list of reasons for his actions. On August 7, at 9:35 p.m., Julian took up his position in the shrubbery on the median strip of Hoddle Street and fantasized that the homeland was being invaded. Armed to the teeth with a Ruger semiautomatic rifle, a Mossberg pump-action shotgun, an M-14 and 200 rounds of ammunition, he started shooting at everything that moved. After 38 minutes he ran out of bullets and was captured by police. Later he claimed that he had saved a round for himself and lost it, prompting his surrender. Otherwise, he thought he deserved to be praised for his actions. "I performed exactly as my Army superiors would have expected me to perform in a combat situation... In other circumstances I would have gotten a medal for what I did."

August 20, 1986 - Pat Sherrill (14/6)
The patron saint of all rampaging postal workers. Fearing that he might be fired, Crazy Pat killed fourteen co-workers and wounded six others in his Edmond, Oklahoma post office. The day before the slaughter Pat was disciplined by his supervisor. Not one to take criticism lightly, Pat returned to work the next morning with two .45-caliber semiautomatic pistols and about 100 rounds. Fatefully, the lucky man who chastised Sherrill missed certain death by oversleeping and arriving late to work. Not to be detracted, Pat shot another supervisors who had been critical of his work. Pat moved from cubicle to cubicle through the labirinzine post office shooting at anyone he saw. After 15 minutes and 14 deaths, Crazy Pat returned to the desk of his of the dead supervisors and put a bullet through his head. Neighbors described Sherrill as a creepy loner who stalked the neighborhood at night wearing camouflage. He had no friends and, since the death of his mother in 1978, lived by himself. Strangely, he was in the habit of riding around town alone in a bike built for two. In his twenties he served with the Marines and became a great marksman. Later he would boast of a tour of duty in Vietnam that was purely fictional. He was once diagnosed with suffering from "fictitious post-traumatic stress disorder" which is imaginary battle fatigue. One has to notice that following his rampage, his imaginary battle fatigue just didn't seem that imaginary.

December 14, 1984 - Jay Wesley Neill (4)
At the time of the murders, Neill was 19 years old and living with Grady Johnson, his lover. Facing financial difficulties and with their relationship on the rocks, they decided to rob a bank and flee to San Francisco. During the robbery of a Geronimo, Oklahoma bank, Neill stabbed three bank employees to death. Jeri Bowles was stabbed 14 times and her throat was cut. Kay Bruno, 42, the manager of the bank, was stabbed 34 times and her throat was cut. Joyce Mullenix, 25, who was 6 months pregnant, was stabbed 27 times and nearly decapitated. Neill forced customers who trickled in after the robbery to get down on the floor next to the women and then shot them. He killed Robert Zeller, 33, but Bellen Robles, 15, Ruben Robles, 20, and Marilyn Roach 24, recovered from their wounds.

July 18, 1984 - James Oliver Huberty (21/20)
An unemployed security guard, James Oliver Huberty, had only one friend-- his dog Shep. On, he donned camouflage pants, told his wife "Society had its chance. I'm going hunting. Hunting humans," and set off to a MacDonald's in San Ysidro. There he shouted, "I killed thousands in Vietnam, and I want to kill more!", and for the next hour and fifteen minutes he slaughtered 21 people and wounded 20. A sniper's bullet ended his bloody rampage. Later the building itself was demolished and a park was built on the site.

Sept. 25, 1982 - George Banks (13)
A former state prison guard, George Banks was found guilty on charges resulting from a shooting spree with an AR-15 high-powered rifle in Wilkes-Barre city and Jenkins Township on the morning of Sept. 25, 1982. The rampage left 13 dead, including five of his own children and the four women who bore them. On June 21, 1983, Banks was found guilty of 12 counts of first-degree murder, one count of third-degree murder, and numerous other charges. The next day, the jury returned 12 death sentences and one sentence of life in prison. Banks is on death row at the State Correctional Institution in Greene, near Pittsburgh.

September 4, 1982 - Humberto de la Torre (25)
21-year-old Humberto torched the Dorothy Mae Apartment Hotel in downtown Los Angeles in 1982 after a dispute with his uncle who managed the building. The blaze killed 25 residents and got Humberto a 625-year sentence.

August 20, 1982 - Carl Brown (8)
Unhappy with the work done on his lawn mower, Carl Brown returned to a Miami machine shop and shot eight people. He then walked out the back door and rode his bicycle back home. Two witnesses chased after him, shot him down and ran him over with their car to make sure he was dead.

[bluedogok]

Here is the list prior to 1982.


June 22/July 16, 1978 – Roger Dale Stafford (9)
Roger Dale Stafford, a white man, was 27 when he was sentenced to death in McClain County for a murder there, but he was best-known as the notorious steakhouse murderer, having killed 6 people in an Oklahoma City restaurant, including 5 teenagers. He also killed 3 members of a Texas family, including a 10- year-old boy. Having spent 15 years and 9 months on death row, Stafford was viewed as the poster boy for appellate reform. He was executed on July 1, 1995.

March 30, 1975 - James Ruppert (11)
41-year-old James Ruppert killed his mother, brother, sister-in-law and eight nieces and nephews at an Easter Sunday dinner in Hamilton, Ohio. In 1982 he was convicted of two deaths and acquitted of the nine others by reason of insanity. The 11 victims were shot a total of 35 times. James then calmly waited for police to arrive, making no attempt to flee. He told arriving cops: "My mother drove me crazy by always combing my hair, talked to me like I was a baby, and tried to make me into a homosexual". At trial, prosecutors said James planned to take the family's $300,000 net worth for himself, by killing everyone else, getting himself declard Not Guilty by reason of insanity. Then having himself "cured" within a few years, he would be released from the hospital a wealthy man.

September 15, 1973 / January 1990 (5)
Knighton escaped from a Missouri halfway house where he was serving a sentence for Manslaughter. Along with his 20-year-old girlfriend, Ruth Renee Williams, and a 17-year-old friend, Lawrence Brittain, he began a crime spree through Oklahoma, Missouri and Texas. The group stopped near the Oklahoma farmhouse of Richard Denney, 62, and his wife Virginia, 64. When Richard Denney offered directions and help to the group, Knighton overpowered the couple and shot and killed them in their home. He then robbed the house. Brittain later pleaded guilty to two counts of first degree murder and is serving two concurrent life sentences. Williams also pleaded guilty as an accessory and received concurrent 15-year prison sentences. Both testified at trial against Knighton. Knighton was also identified as the killer of two Missouri men during the crime spree, Frank T. Merrifield and his stepson, Roy E. Donahue. Knighton had served 17 years in prison for the slaying of a Missouri man in the 1970s.

September 5, 1970 - Dale Merle Nelson (8)
A sexually dysfunctional lumberjack, Dale fought his impotence with violence and liquor. On September 5, 1970, tanked up with booze and hatred, he drove to his wife's relatives' house where he killed a women and her seven-year-old daughter. Feeling a bit hungry, he slit the young girl's gut and munched on the half-digested food in her entrails. He then went to a neighbor's house and killed all six inside, sodomizing an eight-year-old girl as she died. Feeling hungry again, he returned to the first house and stole the corpse he previously had for dinner.

July 31, 1966 - Charles Whitman (16/30)
Charlie's head always ached. On July 31, 1966, he decided to take action. He started at midnight by killing his mother and his wife. The next morning he packed a bag with guns, sandwiches, a radio, deodorant and toilet paper, bought ammo and barricaded himself in the University of Texas clock tower. There he started picking off students. After ninety minutes of target practice the police broke through his barrier and shot him to death. When the smoke cleared, Charlie had killed 16 people and wounded 30 others. An autopsy revealed a golf-ball-sized tumor pressing against the aggression center of his brain which, of course, explains the headaches. On November 14, 2001, a man shot by Charles Whitman during his 1966 clocktower rampage at the University of Texas in Austin died from complications from the gunshot wound to his good kidney, officials said. David H. Gunby, 58, die at a Fort Worth hospital after deciding to stop dialysis treatment. Gunby, then a 23-year-old engineering student, was one of 31 people shot by during the shooting spree in August 1966. During surgery, doctors found bullet fragments lodged in Gunby's only functioning kidney, forcing him to endure repeated kidney problems, a transplant and dialysis three times a week for 27 years.

July 14, 1966 - Richard Speck (8+)
Richard Speck had a tattoo on his arm that read "Born to raise hell". In 1966 that's exactly what this garbage man and apprentice seaman did when he leisurely slaughtered eight student nurses in Chicago. Rich, a possible serial killer, is believed to be responsible for at least four more deaths in the three month preceeding his blood-soaked swan song. On the night of July 13, Rich, tanked up with booze and tripping, knocked on the door of the two-story town house occupied by the nurses. He corralled the six women inside and hog-tied them with torn bed-sheets. He then led the first victim upstairs to a separate room and stabbed her to death. Methodically, he smoked the rest of the nurses at a clip of three per hour. Throughout the slow-motion butchery, he only raped one of the women. As the night wore on three more nurses arrived from their dates to fall prey to his mania. One nurse, Corazon Amurao, survived the deadly visit by scooting under a bed. Rich left the townhouses when he thought there was no one left alive and headed back to a bar.

January 21, 1958 - Charlie Starkweather & Caril Ann Fugate (11)
Standing at five feet two inches, Charles Starkweather hated everyone he saw. Everyone except his fourteen year old girlfriend Caril Ann. Charlie got into an argument with Caril's parents and settled it the only way he knew -- shooting her mother and stepfather. Then he rammed his gun barrel down Caril's two-year-old sister's throat and choked her to death while Caril watched the tube. A few days later, after the local authorities became suspicious, the two went on the run killing with reckless abandon. After eluding a two-hundred member posse chasing them through Nebraska, they were captured in Wyoming where they turned on each other.

November 1, 1955 - Jack Gilbert Graham (44)
Jack, a petty criminal, was always annoyed by his doting mother. In 1955, when she came to visit him in Denver, Jack gave her a Christmas present to take back home with her on the plane. The present, fourteen pounds of dynamite with a timer in a box, blew up shortly after takeoff killing 44. This, he said, made him feel freer than he had ever felt before. It also got him gassed in 1957.

September 6, 1949 - Howard Unruh (13)
Meet the father of modern mass murder. A WWII veteran, Unruh never recovered from the war. He kept a list of his neighbors in East Camden, New Jersey who irked or bothered him and mumbled that someday he would get them. For a year Howard planned his lethal foray. Arecluse, he was convinced his neighbors were ridiculing him and plotting against him. "They have been making derogatory remarks about my character," Unruh told authorities after the attack. What set him off was discovering someone had stolen his fence gate. Shortly after 9 a.m. on September 6, 1949 --the day after Labor Day -- the 28-year-old pharmacy student left the apartment he shared with his mother armed with a war souvenir Luger and 33 rounds of ammunition and set on what later came to be known as the "Walk of Death." As neighbors screamed and scrambled for cover, Unruh went to the shoe repair shop and shot the cobbler. Next door, at the barber shop, he killed a 6-year-old boy on a hobbyhorse chair and then the barber. Next he stopped at the tailor's, but he had left to run an errand, so Unruh shot his bride of six weeks. Along the way, he shot randomly at anyone who crossed his path: a man, two women and a 10-year-old boy died. A tavern owner shot Unruh in the thigh from a second-story window, but Unruh continued walking. He then went to the house of a family that bothered him killing three. His lethal stroll down the streets of Camden tallied thirteen dead -- including two children -- in twelve minutes.

January 26, 1948 - Sadamichi Hirasawa (12)
A Japanese artist, Sadamichi poisoned 12 bank employees during a robbery.

November 1935 – Chester Comer (5)
Various motives, including greed and jealousy, have been advanced for the sudden, lethal violence which overtook Chester Comer in 1935. In retrospect, it seems that none of the suggested motivations adequately answer for the mayhem of a mind that went abruptly, brutally awry. Comer's first known victim was his ex-wife, Elizabeth, whose bullet-riddled body was discovered near Kansas City, Kansas, in the fall of 1935. Badly decomposed, the body would not be identified until December, by which time Comer had already murdered his second wife, Lucille, dumping her nude body in the countryside near Edmond, Oklahoma. From Edmond, Comer drove southwest to Shawnee, abducting and murdering Ray Evans, a local civic leader, stripping his victim before dumping the corpse in a field outside of town. Veering westward again, Comer picked off his last two victims -- farmer L.A. Simpson and his son Warren, fourteen -- leaving their bodies fully clothed after he gunned them down, execution-style, in a rural pasture. Comer was still driving Simpson's car when Marshal Oscar Morgan stopped him in Blanchard. Shots were exchanged, and Comer was fatally wounded. Dying, he confessed to "doing away" with Evans and the Simpsons, but advanced no explanation for his crimes.

May 18, 1927 - Andrew Kehoe (45)
The first mad bomber in U.S. soil, Andy blew up a school in Bath, Michigan, killing 45 people, 37 of them children. After detonating explosives he planted under the school, "maniac bomber" Andrew Kehoe, a school board member and treasurer and farmer, blew up his pickup truck, killing himself and the Bath School superintendent.

1921 – 1925 – William Hale (18-24)
William King Hale and his nephews Ernest and Byron Burkhart conspired to kill several Osage Indians for the oil headrights. Ernest married Mollie Kile (or Kyle) a native Osage. Through various permutations, William King Hale had Mollie's sister Anna Brown killed in 1921. Anna's head rights were inherited by her mother Lizzie Q and Mollie. The death of Lizzie Q and several cousins left Mollie Burkhart and therefore Ernest as heirs to the headrights worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars in 1920s. Mollie fell ill and was later discovered to have been poisoned. When she moved away from Fairfax she recovered. Hale was convicted after three trials under federal laws and sent to Leavenworth prison in Kansas. He was sentenced to life but was paroled in 1947. He spent some of his life in Montana working as a ranch hand for Benny Binion. He died in Arizona. Byron turned state's evidence and never served time. His brother Ernest was sentenced to life in state court and was sent to McAlester. He was released in 1959 and received a pardon in 1966.

April 7, 1866 - Anton Probst (8+)
The axe murders in 1866 near Philadelphia were unprecedented. Anton Probst, a farm hand, systematically lured all eight members of the Deering family into a barn, then axed them to death. Beginning about 8:00 in the morning and finishing around 1:30 p.m., he then went into the farmhouse and put on Mr. Deering's fine clothes, sat down and ate the food in their kitchen (a man's got to eat), then plundered the house one room at a time until evening. He then went into Philadelphia to his favorite saloon, bought drinks for the house with his new found wealth, gambled and lost at bagatelle (an early form of pool) and then treated himself to a lady of the evening until the following morning when he was thrown out of the whorehouse almost penniless. Managing to come up with more money for whoring for the next five days, Probst was finally captured and subsequently hanged, His body was then used for chilling medical experiments at the local college. Strong evidence also suggests he was also a cold-blooded serial killer who roamed the east coast and enjoyed butchering families.

[olevetonahill]

I grew up watching Westerns, Roy Rogers, Lone Ranger, etc. Also cartoons such as Mighty Mouse and Popeye. All were filled with violence.

They didn't make me a violent person.

I also enjoy 1st person shooters. I don't expect to become violent because of them.

5-0

Hells bells H 2-0 You and Matlock are way the **** out there aint Ya.

Even Hollywood says they prolly need to scale it back some

http://news.yahoo.com/hollywood-responds-deadly-conn-school-shooting-022755277.html

[olevetonahill]

We need to eliminate:

Violent video games
Violent television
Violent movies
Boxing
MMA
Rifles
Pistols
Shotguns
Camo
Kevlar
Knives
Baseball bats
Drugs
Poison
Fertilizer
Fuel oil
Matches
Blasting caps
Bic lighters
Any gathering of 5 or more people
Pit bulls

Fixed...most murder and other heinous acts have been eliminated

Ya forgot Rocks and Tree Limbs

[pphilfran]

Ya forgot Rocks and Tree Limbs

Hey, I didn't want to infringe on any freedoms...

[olevetonahill]

And again I dont think anyone Myself included has Blamed Violent Vid games as the Root cause
I will say That those and Violent TeeVee , Movies are a contributor

[olevetonahill]

Hey, I didn't want to infringe on any freedoms...

Yea they be some Monkeys and shat out there that we need to be PC about.

[pphilfran]

The first acknowledged FPS (First Person Shooter) game on computers was Wolfenstein, that came out in 1992. This is a short list of mass murders occurring before 1992 from various sources. To blame anything on the FPS games is a fallacy, the fact is the majority of people who would commit this kind of crime has sever mental issues but everyone wants to seem to ignore the real culprit in this type of crime.

I remember some of the Oklahoma events, like the Geronimo killings, we were in Altus for my great-grandmothers funeral and there was a heightened sense of police presence around because they had not caught the killers yet.

Wolfenstein was pretty good but Doom and Doom 2 were my addiction...

[Midtowner]

I see no one has attempted to address the query as to how violent video games are to blame here when these sorts of attacks are actually much more rare than they were before violent video games even existed.

[SCOUT]

The first acknowledged FPS (First Person Shooter) game on computers was Wolfenstein, that came out in 1992. This is a short list of mass murders occurring before 1992 from various sources. To blame anything on the FPS games is a fallacy, the fact is the majority of people who would commit this kind of crime has sever mental issues but everyone wants to seem to ignore the real culprit in this type of crime.

I remember some of the Oklahoma events, like the Geronimo killings, we were in Altus for my great-grandmothers funeral and there was a heightened sense of police presence around because they had not caught the killers yet.
I remember playing Castle Wofenstein in the early 80's

[LiveLaughLove]

I see no one has attempted to address the query as to how violent video games are to blame here when these sorts of attacks are actually much more rare than they were before violent video games even existed.

What's rarity got to do with anything. Do you know how rare it is for someone to go on a killing spree with a gun?

We could have one a day for the next year and they would still be so rare as to be infinitesimal, but that's not stopping libs and lib politicians from exploiting it.

[Midtowner]

What's rarity got to do with anything. Do you know how rare it is for someone to go on a killing spree with a gun?

Extremely rare. In fact, much more rare than it was 20 years ago before we had the high resolution realistic first person shooter games we have today. In fact, despite all the outcry here and media circus, even with this incident, this sort of thing is trending downward.


We could have one a day for the next year and they would still be so rare as to be infinitesimal, but that's not stopping libs and lib politicians from exploiting it.

Just the libs? Mike Huckabee was one of the first to exploit it when he made the remarks about prayer in schools.

[olevetonahill]

I see no one has attempted to address the query as to how violent video games are to blame here when these sorts of attacks are actually much more rare than they were before violent video games even existed.

Are you really this ****ing Stupid?
No One has said that the Games ARE the SOLE blame , I have said that IMHO they are A contributing Factor
Hells Bells Matlock Pay Tention

[hawaii 5-0]

Hells bells H 2-0 You and Matlock are way the **** out there aint Ya.

Even Hollywood says they prolly need to scale it back some

http://news.yahoo.com/hollywood-responds-deadly-conn-school-shooting-022755277.html


Old Flaccid Goat, Imma just sayin' that watching violence doesn't make one person a violent person.

Say, on another thread weren't you the one trying vainly to make a connection between this sick individual and violent video games?

Please try to be more consistent in your wild errant accusations.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

Extremely rare. In fact, much more rare than it was 20 years ago before we had the high resolution realistic first person shooter games we have today. In fact, despite all the outcry here and media circus, even with this incident, this sort of thing is trending downward.



Just the libs? Mike Huckabee was one of the first to exploit it when he made the remarks about prayer in schools.

And again you sir
http://stickerheads.com/images/stupidsob4543.jpg

[Midtowner]

Are you really this ****ing Stupid?
No One has said that the Games ARE the SOLE blame , I have said that IMHO they are A contributing Factor
Hells Bells Matlock Pay Tention

And what evidence do you have to support that? It's an especially dumb statement considering that there is at least a possible correlation between the increase of violent game sales and the decrease in gun homicides.

What evidence do you have that despite decreasing gun homicide rates, they would be even lower if we were still playing pong?

[olevetonahill]

Old Flaccid Goat, Imma just sayin' that watching violence doesn't make one person a violent person.

Say, on another thread weren't you the one trying vainly to make a connection between this sick individual and violent video games?

Please try to be more consistent in your wild errant accusations.

5-0

And agin you and Matlock miss. I said that they are a Contributing Factor , neve Said more than that But you Lib ****in idiots keep playin .

Oh and from Now on you can adress me as OFG if you dont mind, water boy

[olevetonahill]

And what evidence do you have to support that? It's an especially dumb statement considering that there is at least a possible correlation between the increase of violent game sales and the decrease in gun homicides.

What evidence do you have that despite decreasing gun homicide rates, they would be even lower if we were still playing pong?

So Now in yer world to be able to STATE an Opinion I need evidence?
I reiterate You and H 2-0 are some stupid SOBs

[hawaii 5-0]

I'm not sure I can go with the "OFG" thing.

My wife screams another interpretation of it every night.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

I'm not sure I can go with the "OFG" thing.

My wife screams another interpretation of it every night.

5-0

What crying Cause the Viagra dint werk again?

[hawaii 5-0]

I refuse to argue with a fool right now.

I guess Batman and Spiderman fans think they can walk on walls.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

I refuse to argue with a fool right now.

I guess Batman and Spiderman fans think they can walk on walls.

5-0

So quit lookin in a Mirror and argue with a vet .

[okiewaker]

I'm gonna make my son play a Doctor type video game. Hopefully the contributing factor stuff kicks in.

[Midtowner]

So Now in yer world to be able to STATE an Opinion I need evidence?
I reiterate You and H 2-0 are some stupid SOBs

Nah, I've just asked repeatedly for you to explain how your opinion could possibly be true on a grand scale when sales of violent video games have grown exponentially while gun deaths have trended downwards.

[hawaii 5-0]

Nah, I've just asked repeatedly for you to explain how your opinion could possibly be true on a grand scale when sales of violent video games have grown exponentially while gun deaths have trended downwards.


Don't hold your breath on getting straight answer from him.

The Limp One has backed himself into a corner and now he's just lashing out like a treed 'possum.

5-0

[hawaii 5-0]

I'm gonna make my son play a Doctor type video game. Hopefully the contributing factor stuff kicks in.


I looked up a picture of Einstein just now and I could feel my IQ rise.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

Nah, I've just asked repeatedly for you to explain how your opinion could possibly be true on a grand scale when sales of violent video games have grown exponentially while gun deaths have trended downwards.


Don't hold your breath on getting straight answer from him.

The Limp One has backed himself into a corner and now he's just lashing out like a treed 'possum.

5-0

Yet you 2 repeatedly state your Opinions ?

Ok Matlock and water boy
I have stated that IMHO Violent Vid Games ARE a contributing Factor . Dispute that IF you can.

\ Yall say Violence is On the DECLINE ?
If thats True then WHY in holy hell do you 2 want my GUNS ?

[olevetonahill]

I looked up a picture of Einstein just now and I could feel my IQ rise.

5-0



Hell water Boy None of us thot it would Take much :onthego:

[OU_Sooners75]

My point is that heroism is not defined solely by directly confronting a gunman in that situation but looking out for the people you are responsible for. I teach adults but while they are in my classroom, they are my responsibility. I would lock and barricade the door and wait for the authorities if there were an active gunman on campus. That is what we've been trained to do and I don't think it's cowardly.

I too work in a school. A secondary school.

We too are trained to grab all kids and get them away from doors and windows. Lock and barracade the doors so the gunman won't have easy access.

And it isn't cowardly to protect the kids in any form possible.

But if teachers, staff, and faculty were able to conceal carry, then most could do as they train now and if the gunman presented himself (or herself, just no record of a female doing this), then a staff member of the school could further protect the kids and people in the school by eliminating the threat.

Imj not saying that the staff needs to put themselves in harms way or go out looking for the gunman. Nor am I saying they should go all Bruce Willis (from Diehard) on the perp either.

Just layer the threat. And I think if students or the public knew that teachers, staff, and faculty were able to carry, it would aid in the deterring crazy *** people from doing this!

[LiveLaughLove]

I too work in a school. A secondary school.

We too are trained to grab all kids and get them away from doors and windows. Lock and barracade the doors so the gunman won't have easy access.

And it isn't cowardly to protect the kids in any form possible.

But if teachers, staff, and faculty were able to conceal carry, then most could do as they train now and if the gunman presented himself (or herself, just no record of a female doing this), then a staff member of the school could further protect the kids and people in the school by eliminating the threat.

Imj not saying that the staff needs to put themselves in harms way or go out looking for the gunman. Nor am I saying they should go all Bruce Willis (from Diehard) on the perp either.

Just layer the threat. And I think if students or the public knew that teachers, staff, and faculty were able to carry, it would aid in the deterring crazy *** people from doing this!

Very true. These guys know and act like they are the only ones carrying in these schools. They casually stroll the corridors. They know until the cops get there they are safe.

[kevpks]

Very true. These guys know and act like they are the only ones carrying in these schools. They casually stroll the corridors. They know until the cops get there they are safe.

I've almost come around to your side on this. I still see a lot of obstacles. I said earlier in the thread that I am not opposed to someone having the right. I just have a tough time visualizing it in practice. Aside from the obvious political obstacles of expanding gun rights in this climate, I think there are some real security concerns that would have to be addressed. However, there is an aspect of this particular story that is starting to change my opinion: the guy offed himself when the cops closed in on him. These mass murderer types don't seem to be up for an actual gun fight like you see out of some bank robbers. The principal at that school was brave enough to lunge at an armed man. If she had a gun, maybe things would have been different.

I think it's all academic though. Realistically, things are likely to swing the other way. Gun rights are likely to erode, not expand.

[StoopTroup]

How did the Shooter get into the School?

[OU_Sooners75]

I looked up a picture of Einstein just now and I could feel my IQ rise.

5-0



That's good. Now it isn't at 5-0


Now call yourself 5-1!

[OU_Sooners75]

Very true. These guys know and act like they are the only ones carrying in these schools. They casually stroll the corridors. They know until the cops get there they are safe.

I know at the high school I work at there is a commissionrped law officer. He is actually a FTO in the police department.

The police regularly show up as well to walk the halls every so often.

Then the two junior highs also have law officers that are at the school from around the time the teachers and students arrive and after they leave.

Our school district is doing everything they possibly can to deter this from happening here. I pray it never does.

[bluedogok]

I remember playing Castle Wofenstein in the early 80's
Castle Wofenstein was still a traditional "flat world" game where you were watching from above. Wolfenstein 3D was the first that I recall that was a mass market FPS, a co-worker in Dallas went to the id Software offices in Mesquite to buy it. We played that one quite a bit.

[Wishboned]

How did the Shooter get into the School?

The latest report I read, and with today's "journalism" I'm not sure how accurate it is, said that he forced his way in by shooting out a window.

[FirstandGoal]

August 20, 1982 - Carl Brown (8)
Unhappy with the work done on his lawn mower, Carl Brown returned to a Miami machine shop and shot eight people. He then walked out the back door and rode his bicycle back home. Two witnesses chased after him, shot him down and ran him over with their car to make sure he was dead. :excitement:

LOL, if only we could deal with all criminals like this.

[soonercruiser]

I too work in a school. A secondary school.

We too are trained to grab all kids and get them away from doors and windows. Lock and barracade the doors so the gunman won't have easy access.

And it isn't cowardly to protect the kids in any form possible.

But if teachers, staff, and faculty were able to conceal carry, then most could do as they train now and if the gunman presented himself (or herself, just no record of a female doing this), then a staff member of the school could further protect the kids and people in the school by eliminating the threat.

Imj not saying that the staff needs to put themselves in harms way or go out looking for the gunman. Nor am I saying they should go all Bruce Willis (from Diehard) on the perp either.

Just layer the threat. And I think if students or the public knew that teachers, staff, and faculty were able to carry, it would aid in the deterring crazy *** people from doing this!

Heck! If the latest accounts are accurate, several of the teachers ran towards the shooter to try to stop him!
They are dead heros!
Just think if they were armed! Maybe there would be fewer dead heros and children!
Just sayin'

[OU_Sooners75]

Heck! If the latest accounts are accurate, several of the teachers ran towards the shooter to try to stop him!
They are dead heros!
Just think if they were armed! Maybe there would be fewer dead heros and children!
Just sayin'

I agree they are dead heros that probably helped save a few lives.

But the teachers and faculty should not have gotten themselves in harms way so eagerly.

I know that sounds cowardly, but secure the children. Lock doors, drop blinds in windows, keep kids out of the line of sight for anyone looking into windows.

And allow the authorities to take care of the problemall these crazy people that do this are the real cowards. They don't want a fire fight. They are like electricity. They want the easiest path possible. So they aren't going to be beating down doors to get to innocent people, or even check to see if there is someone in the classroom or not. They are searching for the easy targets.

That said, yes if the staff were able to carry guns with them, then the perp would not have killed so many. Hell the likelihood the perp even goes to the school is very much lowered since he wouldn't want a gun fight. He wants to kill as many as he can then kill himself.

[StoopTroup]

The latest report I read, and with today's "journalism" I'm not sure how accurate it is, said that he forced his way in by shooting out a window.

As a Father of a child in an Elementary School....that is the first thing to fix IMO.

[C&CDean]

Ban windows in schools?

[StoopTroup]

I think you'll see some major changes at schools and the costs will be very high.

Ban Windows? I doubt that will happen but I have a feeling that you will see a much stricter area of approach to Elementary thru HS Schools. The people who don't have kids at the School will find it much more difficult to approach the School and they will probably be searched and required to walk through at the very least...a metal / bomb detector.

You might even see a type of FBI Profiling via facial recognition like they use at events like the Super Bowl.

Will all of this happen this week? I doubt it but you will see something like this I'd imagine.