Mass Shooting at Elementary school in Connecticut

[colleyvillesooner]

Latest estimates 28 dead, 18 children. unbelievably tragic.

Shooter is believed dead in a classroom

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1

[Wishboned]

Sick bastard.

That's all I got.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

His evil gun(s) should never have been sold.

[olevetonahill]

His evil gun(s) should never have been sold.

How about instead of gettin into the Gun issue we all just say a Prayer or 10 for all the victims and their families

[Wishboned]

How about instead of gettin into the Gun issue we all just say a Prayer or 10 for all the victims and their families

Amen.

[yermom]

and i was thinking the thing in China was crazy when i saw it this morning:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

people are nuts

[olevetonahill]

and i was thinking the thing in China was crazy when i saw it this morning:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

people are nuts

Yup.

[Curly Bill]

China or the U.S. the way things currently are if you are intent on killing a large number of people where ya gonna go find a large number of people that can't defend themselves? Yup, that's right a school! We're allowing our kids to be sitting ducks.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

How about instead of gettin into the Gun issue we all just say a Prayer or 10 for all the victims and their familiesIMO prayers, shock and sorrow go without saying. I was simply predicting the inevitable call for banning weapons, although one can argue that goes without saying as well.

[olevetonahill]

China or the U.S. the way things currently are if you are intent on killing a large number of people where ya gonna go find a large number of people that can't defend themselves? Yup, that's right a school! We're allowing our kids to be sitting ducks.

Im with you CB, I think every teacher Thats willing should be armed and trained for these type deals
Hell if we can trust em with our Kids Minds why cant we trust em with a weapon?

[olevetonahill]

IMO prayers, shock and sorrow go without saying. I was simply predicting the inevitable call for banning weapons, although one can argue that goes without saying as well.

Thats like sayin the Suns gonna rise in the east

[colleyvillesooner]

Radio saying suspect is thought to be 24 y/o male. Most victims believed to be in a first grade classroom. Had 4 weapons and a bullet proof vest.

[Curly Bill]

Im with you CB, I think every teacher Thats willing should be armed and trained for these type deals
Hell if we can trust em with our Kids Minds why cant we trust em with a weapon?


Yup! and Yup!

[yermom]

i heard something about a second gunman in custody, and that one of the gunmen was the father of a kid at the school

[olevetonahill]

i heard something about a second gunman in custody, and that one of the gunmen was the father of a kid at the school

Yea theres a Lot of wrong Info right now. I heard they were lookin for one and one was dead.

[olevetonahill]

Yup! and Yup!

Yer a teacher Bro what do your fellow instructors think?

[Curly Bill]

Yer a teacher Bro what do your fellow instructors think?

Feel like sitting ducks, but there's not many more PC institutions than public education, so the chances of the educational establishment getting behind letting qualified teachers, like me, concealed carry are minimal.

[Midtowner]

His evil gun(s) should never have been sold.

Wow.. kids are killed and your first response is to go hug your guns?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wow.. kids are killed and your first response is to go hug your guns?haha, there ya go! One sentence evil card. you're ON!

[Midtowner]

Feel like sitting ducks, but there's not many more PC institutions than public education, so the chances of the educational establishment getting behind letting qualified teachers, like me, conceled carry are minimal.

Some are a lot more secure than others. I've done some work at Edmond Public Schools lately in IEP conferences and grade schools are nothing like I remember 'em from back in the early 1980s. You go through one set of doors, then you have no option but to go through the office. To get in to the actual school, you have to let them scan your driver's license, run a background check and take a photo. The machine then prints a security badge for you which you have to wear at all times.

If they had one of those systems and good evacuation protocols, it's likely this would never have been so bad.

[Wishboned]

If you're a worthless **** who is sick enough to shoot up a classroom full of kids then you're a sick enough **** to find an alternative to guns to mass murder someone.

I'm just guessing but I'm going to say there was a custody issue involved here. Just a hunch.

And there is not a Hell horrible enough for that bastard.

[olevetonahill]

Wow.. kids are killed and your first response is to go hug your guns?

And your first response was to attack another poster?

[colleyvillesooner]

Take it to PEEM you guys. Not the place.

[olevetonahill]

Some are a lot more secure than others. I've done some work at Edmond Public Schools lately in IEP conferences and grade schools are nothing like I remember 'em from back in the early 1980s. You go through one set of doors, then you have no option but to go through the office. To get in to the actual school, you have to let them scan your driver's license, run a background check and take a photo. The machine then prints a security badge for you which you have to wear at all times.

If they had one of those systems and good evacuation protocols, it's likely this would never have been so bad.

Lets see Matlock, To secure EVERY school in the country to that level would cost how much? while lettin well qualified and trained teachers carry would cost how much?

[olevetonahill]

Take it to PEEM you guys. Not the place.

Your right Brother, Ima go back to prayin for those kids and their families

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And your first response was to attack another poster?.You got it. Stupid, crazy or just plain old evil. I must have somehow missed his expression of sorrow and shock for the victims...and of course, any mention of prayers for them.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Take it to PEEM you guys. Not the place.There's nothing more to say about PC stuff. It speaks for itself, and yes, I'm done talking about it, at least here.

[jkjsooner]

There's nothing more to say about PC stuff. It speaks for itself, and yes, I'm done talking about it, at least here.

That's good. Wish you would have shown enough restraint to not bring it up to begin with.

[Wishboned]

The school had just put into effect safety policies that they thought would prevent a tragedy like this.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/newtown-conn-school-district-had-recently-installed-new-safety-protocols/

[diverdog]

The school had just put into effect safety policies that they thought would prevent a tragedy like this.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/newtown-conn-school-district-had-recently-installed-new-safety-protocols/

I cannot imagine losing one of my kids. The families who lost their children today have had their lives ruined. Christmas will never ever be the same. As a father I am not sure I could get through an event like this. The only thing we can do is pray for the families.

As a nation we need to have a serious discussion on why we are so violent. There is something seriously broken in our society and it maybe a time of serious self reflection and soul searching to see how we can confront violence and stop it before it happens.

[Midtowner]

Lets see Matlock, To secure EVERY school in the country to that level would cost how much? while lettin well qualified and trained teachers carry would cost how much?

http://www.schoolgateguardian.com/

Those things can't be that expensive.

http://www.modularmailing.com/sites/default/files/styles/showcase_product_large/public/productfiles/kiosk.jpg

At least not for schools. If it was a question of the safety of the children in my district, I'd be willing to take a small hit on my tax bill (and I guess I already have).

[8timechamps]

I feel sick for the families of those killed...hell, for anyone that has been a part of this (first responders, the children that survived, the community). Horrible tragedy.

I hope it was a cop that popped this animal and he didn't kill himself.

[Midtowner]

The school had just put into effect safety policies that they thought would prevent a tragedy like this.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/newtown-conn-school-district-had-recently-installed-new-safety-protocols/

Hopefully we learn from this.

[olevetonahill]

I cannot imagine losing one of my kids. The families who lost their children today have had their lives ruined. Christmas will never ever be the same. As a father I am not sure I could get through an event like this. The only thing we can do is pray for the families.

As a nation we need to have a serious discussion on why we are so violent. There is something seriously broken in our society and it maybe a time of serious self reflection and soul searching to see how we can confront violence and stop it before it happens.

Whats wrong? you have to ask whats wrong?

Try all these very violent Video games , Try a Parent no longer able to discipline a child with out being arrested, Try Our own Government letting Self sufficiency wither away to dependance on welfare and what have you. Try Kickin God out of the schools and allowing every thing else in
You get the Idea?

[olevetonahill]

http://www.schoolgateguardian.com/

Those things can't be that expensive.

http://www.modularmailing.com/sites/default/files/styles/showcase_product_large/public/productfiles/kiosk.jpg

At least not for schools. If it was a question of the safety of the children in my district, I'd be willing to take a small hit on my tax bill (and I guess I already have).

Are you tryin to say that Little Box will insure the safty of the Kids? Are you out of your mind?

[8timechamps]

I cannot imagine losing one of my kids. The families who lost their children today have had their lives ruined. Christmas will never ever be the same. As a father I am not sure I could get through an event like this. The only thing we can do is pray for the families.

As a nation we need to have a serious discussion on why we are so violent. There is something seriously broken in our society and it maybe a time of serious self reflection and soul searching to see how we can confront violence and stop it before it happens.

I said this when Columbine happened, then again when the Aurora shootings happened, and I'll say it again today. Our mental health system is grossly underfunded, and in a large part unprepared to deal with folks that are so far gone they want to do things like this. THAT'S the first thing that needs to be fixed.

[Midtowner]

Are you tryin to say that Little Box will insure the safty of the Kids? Are you out of your mind?

It would certainly buy time and maybe give a few more moments for administrators to take action.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That's good. Wish you would have shown enough restraint to not bring it up to begin with.We have been asked not to discuss PC stuff. Stop it!

[cleller]

As the suspect's mother worked at the school, I imagine he could have evaded just about any security they had. A small town like this, if he arrived and said he urgently needed to see his mother, he would likely be let in.

Unfortunately, this has become the nutcase way of seeking attention. Lets just hope the media portrays him in a very negative light. Some psych-type study I read concluded the best way to deter this type of behavior was to aggressively paint the suspect as an outcast, perverse, degenerate, etc. Also not devote time to the suspects words, writings, feelings.

They should also focus mostly on victims, and not give the suspect much attention or name recognition. Shoot, Klebold and Harris are know by everyone.

[rainiersooner]

Whats wrong? you have to ask whats wrong?

Try all these very violent Video games , Try a Parent no longer able to discipline a child with out being arrested, Try Our own Government letting Self sufficiency wither away to dependance on welfare and what have you. Try Kickin God out of the schools and allowing every thing else in
You get the Idea?

And I would add over-drugging kids with aderall, anti-depressants, etc. instead of parenting them.

[olevetonahill]

And I would add over-drugging kids with aderall, anti-depressants, etc. instead of parenting them.

Yup.
I dont ever remember an A.D.D. kid when I was in school. Ya acted up ya got yer assbusted every kid knew it and Most all behaved, Now a kid can do just about anything with no punishment cause They "Special" **** that bust their asses and make em mind

[diverdog]

Yup.
I dont ever remember an A.D.D. kid when I was in school. Ya acted up ya got yer assbusted every kid knew it and Most all behaved, Now a kid can do just about anything with no punishment cause They "Special" **** that bust their asses and make em mind

When I was about to be a first time father I took a friend of mine to lunch. She had great kids and I wanted to know her secret. She said it was very simple "tell them what you mean and mean what you tell them". She did not negotiate or deviate from her meaning. She believed actions should have immediate consequences. I raised my kids by her rules and I have two great kids. My oldest made Eagle Scout last night. The youngest will do the Same and both are straight A students. The point is that you have to be a parent not a friend. Being a parent is tough but if you are consistent the results should be predictable.

[olevetonahill]

When I was about to be a first time father I took a friend of mine to lunch. She had great kids and I wanted to know her secret. She said it was very simple "tell them what you mean and mean what you tell them". She did not negotiate or deviate from her meaning. She believed actions should have immediate consequences. I raised my kids by her rules and I have two great kids. My oldest made Eagle Scout last night. The youngest will do the and both are straight A students. The point is that you have to be a parent not a friend. Being a parent is tough but if you are consistent the results should be predictable.

Yup and there has to be consequences for Bad behavior, Spank dont spank I dont care But there must be discipline

[colleyvillesooner]

Misinfo

[Ton Loc]

Whats wrong? you have to ask whats wrong?

Try all these very violent Video games , Try a Parent no longer able to discipline a child with out being arrested, Try Our own Government letting Self sufficiency wither away to dependance on welfare and what have you. Try Kickin God out of the schools and allowing every thing else in
You get the Idea?

They are crazy people. Crazy people aren't driven to being crazy by music, video games, movies, or any other ridiculous media driven excuses/reasons.

If we took mental health half as serious as physical health in this country we would be much better off. And that's sad - because we're a bunch of fatties.

[normanx]

IMO, it should somehow be mandatory that a parent spank their child. Again, jmo.

Prayers are with the families of the lost. Very sad deal.

[olevetonahill]

They are crazy people. Crazy people aren't driven to being crazy by music, video games, movies, or any other ridiculous media driven excuses/reasons.

If we took mental health half as serious as physical health in this country we would be much better off. And that's sad - because we're a bunch of fatties.

Wonder why we never had this kinda carp way back when? there were Crazy folk then to. Lots of guns and less restrictions on em.

Sorry dont buy what yer tryin to sell.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

This goes beyond disciplining kids..undisciplined parents can't discipline kids...

lots of moms and dads out there, not many parents.

[normanx]

^^^ true, true.
Makes me thankful for my folks being parents AND for their discipline. And I
passed it on to my beautiful 9 yr old daughter. She's truly the best kid you could ever ask for.

[olevetonahill]

This goes beyond disciplining kids..undisciplined parents can't discipline kids...

lots of moms and dads out there, not many parents.

Dint say this Just started Bro. Parents been abdicating their responsibility since LBJs " Great Society" days of the early 60s

[Soonerjeepman]

This goes beyond disciplining kids..undisciplined parents can't discipline kids...

lots of moms and dads out there, not many parents.

being a teacher and a parent...this is it.

[Soonerjeepman]

My GF lets her 7 yr old son play all the M shooting games...I have a hard time with that. My son never played any of those til 14/15 then it was sound off and usually the Call of Duty..WW2 games.

I can see a kid getting so use to just "pulling the trigger" and killing to solve all the issues...

We also push self-esteem OUT THE A$$ so no one learns HOW TO HANDLE failure, everyone is a winner.

[nutinbutdust]

This is so sad, I cannot imagine being called to the school and being told my 5 year old had been shot. I cant even imagine being one of the parents who got to pick up their kids. How would you explain what happened? My heart goes out to the whole community and I hope they can find healing.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Can't imagine at all..And trying not to.

[8timechamps]

They are crazy people. Crazy people aren't driven to being crazy by music, video games, movies, or any other ridiculous media driven excuses/reasons.

If we took mental health half as serious as physical health in this country we would be much better off. And that's sad - because we're a bunch of fatties.

This is my thinking too.

People that get to a point that they are able to do something like this, didn't just wake up and lose it. They'll find that this kid had issues along the way, and they apparently went ignored.

This country will be better off when mental health is treated like physical health.

[8timechamps]

Wonder why we never had this kinda carp way back when? there were Crazy folk then to. Lots of guns and less restrictions on em.

Sorry dont buy what yer tryin to sell.

That's a fair point vet, but you also have to consider the media coverage now versus way back when. This isn't an issue of violent video games, porn or music, it's an issue of crazy being crazy. I also think there is a parenting issue involved. And by "parenting", I mean a lack of parenting. I am constantly amazed by how "parents" don't know what their kids are doing, or more importantly, HOW they are doing.

[Wishboned]

And for the love of God can someone tell what is the point of constantly showing these terrified and grieving people in the news? It's not news, it's not compelling, it's some sick voyeuristic thing that all the news outlets do.

Have some ****ing compassion and let these poor people grieve in peace.

[cleller]

And for the love of God can someone tell what is the point of constantly showing these terrified and grieving people in the news? It's not news, it's not compelling, it's some sick voyeuristic thing that all the news outlets do.

Have some ****ing compassion and let these poor people grieve in peace.

Yeah, the networks are trying to give the viewers what they want, without any kind of editorial thought about what is most prudent. None of the outlets want to be outdone, so we have a huge amount of coverage that saturates people's minds.

[olevetonahill]

That's a fair point vet, but you also have to consider the media coverage now versus way back when. This isn't an issue of violent video games, porn or music, it's an issue of crazy being crazy. I also think there is a parenting issue involved. And by "parenting", I mean a lack of parenting. I am constantly amazed by how "parents" don't know what their kids are doing, or more importantly, HOW they are doing.

Thats pretty much what Im sayin bro
people dropping kids like a stray dog drops pups then just let em roam and do what they want. It aint so much the games Im blaming its the Parents stickin one of those games in the kids hand with out any parental control or guidance, then wondering why Little Crazy Johnny goes all ape shat

[olevetonahill]

And for the love of God can someone tell what is the point of constantly showing these terrified and grieving people in the news? It's not news, it's not compelling, it's some sick voyeuristic thing that all the news outlets do.

Have some ****ing compassion and let these poor people grieve in peace.

Its called sensationalism Same thing you see when thos idots stand out on the beach while a Hurricane is roarin in at em

[8timechamps]

Thats pretty much what Im sayin bro
people dropping kids like a stray dog drops pups then just let em roam and do what they want. It aint so much the games Im blaming its the Parents stickin one of those games in the kids hand with out any parental control or guidance, then wondering why Little Crazy Johnny goes all ape shat

We're on the same page. I can't imagine not knowing what my kids are doing, where they are or how they are feeling. That's how I was raised, and I figured it's kinda parenting 101. Sadly, that's just not the case anymore.

[StoopTroup]

Our Family stopped what we were doing as soon as everyone got Home and said a prayer for the folks and the kids we lost today as well as the survivors and their Families and Friends. This will take a long time to sort all what happened out. I think a week of Prayers that this kind of sick and twisted waste of human lives all stops.

As a Father, Im very blessed that all of my children are at Home with me tonight and not being carted to the Morgue.

Again...my heart goes out to all those who lost Children, a Mother or Father and to the survivors of all the lost who will forever remember this day as the day they were forever changed by this very sick man.

[jkjsooner]

IMO, it should somehow be mandatory that a parent spank their child. Again, jmo.

Prayers are with the families of the lost. Very sad deal.

Mandatory? That shows a complete ignorance of how each child is unique. A one size fits all solution(especially a mandated one) is ridiculous.

I have an autistic three year old. I've spanked him a few times but like almost all autistic kids he can't connect the dots of cause and effect. What's worse is that some actually get positive sensory feedback from a spanking.

But by all means stay in you simplistic world and mandate ineffective punishment on the rest of us.

[normanx]

I'm very sorry if I offended you. Wasn't why I proposed what I said. Yer circumstance could be different. But at some point, you did spank?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Prayer's for the families. RIP for all those little farts and the grownups as well...:frown:

[jkjsooner]

I'm very sorry if I offended you. Wasn't why I proposed what I said. Yer circumstance could be different. But at some point, you did spank?

Yes, I'm not against spanking. It is one of many tools for discipline. A parent has to find what works for their child.

I may try it in the future but I have to be careful. I don't buy the argument that we're only teaching kids to be violent but for my son at this time that does seem to be the only connection he makes from it. Still feeling my way around what this diagnosis means. I've yet to find anyone who recommends spanking an autistic child and from my experience they do not respond like neurotypical kids.

Anyway you didn't offend me. I'm good. Hope you are too. I probably shouldn't have turned it personal.

[stoopified]

Whats wrong? you have to ask whats wrong?

Try all these very violent Video games , Try a Parent no longer able to discipline a child with out being arrested, Try Our own Government letting Self sufficiency wither away to dependance on welfare and what have you. Try Kickin God out of the schools and allowing every thing else in
You get the Idea?Well said

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And for the love of God can someone tell what is the point of constantly showing these terrified and grieving people in the news? It's not news, it's not compelling, it's some sick voyeuristic thing that all the news outlets do.

Have some ****ing compassion and let these poor people grieve in peace.It's easy-to-do reporting, and it gets ratings, or at least the reporters and news outlets think it gets people's attention.

[SCOUT]

It's easy-to-do reporting, and it gets ratings, or at least the reporters and news outlets think it gets people's attention.

^This and it is a sad commentary on journalism.

[prrriiide]

Im with you CB, I think every teacher Thats willing should be armed and trained for these type deals
Hell if we can trust em with our Kids Minds why cant we trust em with a weapon?

That's the best thot I've seen all day on this.

[prrriiide]

The point is that you have to be a parent not a friend.

I've seen enough friends and family to know this is true: if you are a good parent now, you will be friends later.

[12]

I'm going to whip my kids to prevent this from happening again.

This seems perfectly logical.

[12]

That's the best thot I've seen all day on this.

I may be alone in this, but some of the teachers I know are not pillars of their community. Handing them a gun is not the answer.

[jkjsooner]

I may be alone in this, but some of the teachers I know are not pillars of their community. Handing them a gun is not the answer.

I had a couple of grade school teachers who were mentally unstable. One had a breakdown during an assembly and was sent away for a few months but ironically she is not the one I'd be most concerned about.

I don't think my experience is unique. Teachers are after all humans...

I do think there is a valid point in that if we were all armed it would be impossible to have these mass killings but it's hard to imagine that that would not create a much larger problem.

I'd go for some type of technological solution. Have a few weapons in distributed boxes locked by a central electronic system and only accessible by central unlocking in conjunction with a passcode entered by trained employees. But that isn't what the NRA wants.

[C&CDean]

^This and it is a sad commentary on journalism.

In all fairness, journalism is gonna report what the ignorant, unwashed masses wanna see. Yes, it's an indictment on what our society has become. **** like Jackass - where people revel in seeing others seriously hurt/kill themselves is just one example of what many like to see. Death. Dismemberment. Grieving. Anger. It all sells to the dregs of our society...which is pretty much those in the mainstream.

Dirty Laundry by one of the Eagles pretty much sums it all up.

[FirstandGoal]

Okay, so yesterday I got to experience the joy of working a 16 hour shift and was so busy I barely had time for a bathroom break. Didn't even hear about this until late last night when I was about to collapse into bed. In a way, I consider myself lucky that I didn't have to endure constant innundation by the media. But then again, I'm also grown up enough to turn off the TV if the coverage upsets me. As of right now I still haven't turned on the TV and probably won't until the bowl game today.

I agree with Vet to a large extent (although I disagree about arming teachers.) This kind of thing has been a problem in the making for the last 50 or so years. There are many contributing factors starting with FDR's Great Experiment and ending with taking God out of every aspect of government. All of the generations since the "greatest generation ever" (which gave birth to the worst, in my opinion) have been slowly degenerating. As our moral compass as a nation continues to point southward, we're gonna see more and more of this type of bull**** occurring.
Okay, I get it that we need to focus more on mental health, but I honestly think that before that we need to focus on personal responsibility. I was raised by a baby-boomer single mom. From the age of 11, I was pretty much allowed to do whatever, whenever because my mom was going to school and working 2 jobs while my dad decided he was going to check out of our lives. I have a younger sister and brother and of the 3 of us, 2 of us ended up becoming successful and my brother ended up in trouble. My mother was the stereotypically overwhelmed single mom. She had no help raising us and my brother got into drugs at a very early age. She continued her flamingo act until he was sent away for 7 years for possession with the intent to distribute, despite my very vocal reactions over the years to his activities. In fact, just prior to his being sent away, I had banned him from being around me or my young children because I didn't want them knowing him at that time.
He served his time, and actually is one of the precious few who managed to turn his life around. The biggest reason? He had a supportive family behind him. I wrote him many times, visited him many times and let him know he was loved, but that the bull**** had to end or he was going to die either from an OD or in jail. The rest of the family did the same and when he got out, he immediately went to work and has continued to work very hard for the last 6 years and he just passed all of his tests to become a licensed journeyman. He is successful, he has a girlfriend, he doesn't do drugs and he's now a contributor to society. Some of you might have met him last year when I brought him to the SF.com Tailgate.

The moral of the story is that we are only as strong as a society as we are willing to be. It saddens me to see so many "weak" people who aren't willing to suck up life and do what it takes to raise their kids properly. The critical problem we now face is that we have parents and even grandparents who were never parented properly who continue to bring forth future generations.

The left can preach all day long about how the right is so full of biggots and haters and how they don't want biblical values even mentioned in public anymore, and the sad part is that they're getting exactly what they wished for. All I know right now is that if I were starting over right now with young children, I would be saving every penny I had to make sure they went to a private Christian school because the public system goes farther and farther awry every year.


Jeepman, (and other SF.com educators) thanks for being a public schoolteacher and doing what you do in such a hostile environment. I know this has got to be especially frustrating for you guys.

[pphilfran]

Don Henley

I make my living off the Evening News
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry

Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em all around

We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
It's interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry

Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry

You don't really need to find out what's going on
You don't really want to know just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough love
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody's pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do "The Innuendo"
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!

[pphilfran]

Red Rider
Lunatic Fringe lyrics
Songwriters: COCHRANE, THOMAS WILLIAM

Lunatic Fringe - Red Rider

Lunatic Fringe - I know you're out there
You're in hiding, and you hold your meetings
I can hear you coming, and I know what you're after
We're wise to you this time we won't let you kill the laughter
wise to you this tiiimmme
OOO-OOO-OOO-uh-Huh
OOO-OOO-OOO-uh-Huh
OOO-OOO-OOO-uh-Huh

Lunatic Fringe - in the twilight's last gleaming
This is open season, but you won't get too far
'Cause you got to blame someone for your own confusion
We're all on guard this time against the Final Solution
all on guard this time

Oh Yea-a-a




OOO-OOO-OOO-uh-Huh
OOO-OOO-OOO-uh-Huh
OOO-OOO-OOO-uh-Huh

We can hear you coming no, you're not going to win this time
We can hear you coming not gonna win
We can hear the footsteps out along the walkway
We can hear the footsteps out along the walkway
them play

Lunatic Fringe - we all know you're out there
Can you feel the resistance?
Can you feel the thunder?

Oh Yea-a-a

[C&CDean]

Yeah, that's it.

[pphilfran]

Must watch video.... :)

IK-nVzp5NbE#!

[bluedogok]

^This and it is a sad commentary on journalism.
"Journalism" doesn't really exist anymore, we have "infotainment" now. Large corporate ownership of media has helped create this.

[C&CDean]

"Journalism" doesn't really exist anymore, we have "infotainment" now. Large corporate ownership of media has helped create this.

Just givin' the peeps what they wanna see...

[Midtowner]

"Journalism" doesn't really exist anymore, we have "infotainment" now. Large corporate ownership of media has helped create this.

Funny enough, we get better "journalism" these days from The Lost Ogle or The Gazette on occasion than we do the Oklahoman or any of the TV networks.

[rock on sooner]

Dint say this Just started Bro. Parents been abdicating their responsibility since LBJs " Great Society" days of the early 60s

Waaay before then, trust me!

[C&CDean]

If we wanna get really real about it, it pretty much started when the bitches went to work.

[Midtowner]

If we wanna get really real about it, it pretty much started when the bitches went to work.

So you'd support fairness in wages which would allow us to return to single earner homes?

[C&CDean]

So you'd support fairness in wages which would allow us to return to single earner homes?

No, but I'd support people learning to live within their means. And wages are fair. If you're willing to do what it takes to get a fair salary.

[rock on sooner]

If we wanna get really real about it, it pretty much started when the bitches went to work.

Respectfully, in at least one instance that is incorrect. 1948, a 3 year old boy watched his
mom's second husband stumble and weave up the walkway to his home, smack his mom
around, the little three year, too, when he tried to protect his mom, who was a stay-at-home
mom. Weren't any video games back then, only draft dodgers and 4F bums that were abusive
non parents whose primary skills at parenting were yelling and belt whippings mixed with
back hands and closed fists...the latter for the other parent, the former for frightened 3 year
olds.

64 years later that little boy grieves for those youngsters in Connecticut, as well as the
seven adults. No, more gun laws or corporal punishment isn't the answer. Open, caring,
inquisitive communication as a parent, common sense communication with other adults isn't
the only answer, either, but it is a start.

[C&CDean]

Respectfully, in at least one instance that is incorrect. 1948, a 3 year old boy watched his
mom's second husband stumble and weave up the walkway to his home, smack his mom
around, the little three year, too, when he tried to protect his mom, who was a stay-at-home
mom. Weren't any video games back then, only draft dodgers and 4F bums that were abusive
non parents whose primary skills at parenting were yelling and belt whippings mixed with
back hands and closed fists...the latter for the other parent, the former for frightened 3 year
olds.

64 years later that little boy grieves for those youngsters in Connecticut, as well as the
seven adults. No, more gun laws or corporal punishment isn't the answer. Open, caring,
inquisitive communication as a parent, common sense communication with other adults isn't
the only answer, either, but it is a start.


There's exceptions to every rule. And you did say "second husband" which takes us to the familial breakdown issue.

I'm pretty blessed. Mom and pop were married 60 years before pop died a couple years ago. I'm 55. In all the time I was growing up I never once saw my pop raise a finger to my mom. Never spent a single night away from home in anger. Never took his paycheck to the bar. Hell, I've never heard my pop utter a single swear word. Not even damn or hell.

And look at my heathen ***. Who knows...

[yermom]

No, but I'd support people learning to live within their means. And wages are fair. If you're willing to do what it takes to get a fair salary.

i might suggest you are a little out of touch on this one.

[C&CDean]

i might suggest you are a little out of touch on this one.

Really? I work 6 days a week since I retired - in addition to my farming. I get paid very well. I've put myself in a position through education, life/work experience, credibility, and hard work to be able to demand a wage which I deem fair.

There were times during my postal career that I hated my job. But I knew that if I'd stick with it and continue to grow it'd all work out. If you're one of those guys who go "but I gotta be happy in what I'm doing" that's fine - just don't expect to make a lot of $$ in your life. Don't get me wrong, doing what you like to do is worth a lot of $$, but having a long-term goal and doing **** jobs to get there has worked for me. I wanted to retire by 55, own a profitable farm, and then do whatever the hell I wanted for the rest of my life. And it's worked. Funny thing is I make 3 times the $$ I did when I worked at the NCED. AND I enjoy what I'm doing.

[8timechamps]

i might suggest you are a little out of touch on this one.

I'm not sure I understand this statement.

I have lived within my means my entire life, and I'm 15 years younger than Dean. I have a mortgage, but otherwise, no debt. For many years, I drove a pretty crappy car, and lived in some pretty sketchy places, but that's what I was able to afford. I've never had a credit card balance that rolled over more than a couple of months, hell...I only have one credit card. From what I read, Dean's point was about living within your means, and if your spouse has to work to keep up with the minimum payments on your third car, boat and credit card balances, then something is off...and the kids in those situation typically are left to fend for themselves.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So you'd support fairness in wages which would allow us to return to single earner homes?Sure. The magical wizard of the USA could/should determine what everyone makes...(Your thought begs for a personal insult, but I would guess you don't think that's true)

[yermom]

Really? I work 6 days a week since I retired - in addition to my farming. I get paid very well. I've put myself in a position through education, life/work experience, credibility, and hard work to be able to demand a wage which I deem fair.

There were times during my postal career that I hated my job. But I knew that if I'd stick with it and continue to grow it'd all work out. If you're one of those guys who go "but I gotta be happy in what I'm doing" that's fine - just don't expect to make a lot of $$ in your life. Don't get me wrong, doing what you like to do is worth a lot of $$, but having a long-term goal and doing **** jobs to get there has worked for me. I wanted to retire by 55, own a profitable farm, and then do whatever the hell I wanted for the rest of my life. And it's worked. Funny thing is I make 3 times the $$ I did when I worked at the NCED. AND I enjoy what I'm doing.

things aren't like they were 30 years ago. minimum wage hasn't kept up with cost of living.

good luck finding a job where you can retire at 55 anymore. do new postal employees even get the same benefits or relative pay you did? i doubt it.

it's easy to say all you have to do is work hard and go to school, but it's not that simple. and again, this isn't about me, i have no room to complain about my personal situation. my mom was a single mom with a good job and had more than enough money.

[C&CDean]

things aren't like they were 30 years ago. minimum wage hasn't kept up with cost of living.

good luck finding a job where you can retire at 55 anymore. do new postal employees even get the same benefits or relative pay you did? i doubt it.

it's easy to say all you have to do is work hard and go to school, but it's not that simple. and again, this isn't about me, i have no room to complain about my personal situation. my mom was a single mom with a good job and had more than enough money.

Minimum wage? When I worked for minimum wage at a pizza joint it was $1.60 per hour. It's almost 700% more than it was then now. Have salaries gone up that much? Mine did. I started with the PO in 1977 for $6.25 per hour.

My point is you can retire at 55 if you're willing to do what it takes. 99% of people aren't. And I'm not talking about inheriting $$ or hitting a lotto. If someone would start working at say 18-20 with a plan to retire in 30-35 years it is quite possible. However, the two required elements necessary - DISCIPLINE and PATIENCE - pretty much don't exist anymore in our society. I want it all, and I want it now...

Also, reaching "retirement" doesn't really mean kick back and do nothing. At least not for me and most of the retirees I know. When I retired I had insured myself a comfortable income for the remainder of my life. If I decided to do nothing I can still pay the bills and have some left over for leisure.

Yes, I was blessed to be on the old Civil Service Retirement System, and I had managed to achieve a fairly lofty position which in turn resulted in a fairly lofty salary/retirement, and I ain't gonna apologize for it. There's opportunities out there if people are willing to do what it takes to get there.

Here's what I believe (and knowing your lack of a belief system you'll think I'm on crack). I pray every day. I've asked God to help in my life. I believe God wants me to help others as well. I believe that being honest, hard-working, reliable, merciful, and in-touch with God has resulted in my success in life. I very firmly believe I did not reach my situation by myself. I ain't that smart.

When the **** has hit the fan in my life I turn it loose and just ask God to help. Sometimes the help comes in ways that I initially think "well that sucks, that ain't what I wanted God" then down the road I look back and think "dang, He does work in mysterious ways." The blessings I've received from initially perceived tragedies/failures are countless. If I didn't suffer through two divorces I never would have met Lisa - and stuff like that. Sucks when it's going down, but years later you go "dang, God knew what He was doing."

Anyhow, keep the faith brothers and sisters. Work hard, try not to be cynical, and try to embrace a power greater than yourself.

[yermom]

you're on crack ;)

[OU_Sooners75]

It would certainly buy time and maybe give a few more moments for administrators to take action.

Do you work in a school?

That box wouldn't stop or hinder anyone wanting to do harm.

That said, the school system I work at has 7 elementary schhols, 2 junior high schools, and senior high school.

At each school, when kids have all arrived by a certain time, all doors are locked except for the front door. Then you have no choice but to be directed to go through the office. At least at all elementary schools.

The high school hasw one main way in after all the doors are locked. Then they go through the main entrance. When entering, you go right past the city police officer on duty to go to the office. But, if he isn't in there, someone could go straight down the hall and start raising hell. They don't have to go to the office.

However, the officer is usually always there in his office except between classes or has been requeswted by a teacher or admin.

The point is, at the high school, visitor and students see the presence of a armed police officer. That is a very good deterwnt. But wouldn't stop someone if they really wanted in to do harm.

I think a lot of people fail to underestimate what a person(s) can do if they have a very high sense to do it.

Just like an alarm on a car. Yes, it will keep the honest person honest, but not the criminal.

[bluedogok]

The fact that his mother was a teacher at that school also means he probably had a very good working knowledge of how that school worked and the layout. He would also probably have been recognized by the staff and not immediately assessed as a threat until he pulled a weapon out. A much different scenario than someone not familiar with the school or staff.

[FaninAma]

Yermom, the reason wages haven't kept up with prices is because of deficit spending and stealth inflation....inflation denied and lied about by the government.

The sad thing about the government is that the more it borrows and spends the further behind the bottom half of wage earners fall. The more you become dependent on the government the further behind you fall. Study after study shows that even in your early 20's if you spend a year on unemployment or other government subsidies instead of working or in education trying to advance your career you never ever make up for that lost year.

Government entitlements, especially for young, able-bodied individuals, are as dangerous and destructive as any other addiction.

If you are a father of a girl make damn sure they grow up with a lot of self-respect and that they learn to depend on themselves...not a man and certainly not the government.

[8timechamps]

Yermom, the reason wages haven't kept up with prices is because of deficit spending and stealth inflation....inflation denied and lied about by the government.

The sad thing about the government is that the more it borrows and spends the further behind the bottom half of wage earners fall. The more you become dependent on the government the further behind you fall. Study after study shows that even in your early 20's if you spend a year on unemployment or other government subsidies instead of working or in education trying to advance your career you never ever make up for that lost year.

Government entitlements, especially for young, able-bodied individuals, are as dangerous and destructive as any other addiction.

If you are a father of a girl make damn sure they grow up with a lot of self-respect and that they learn to depend on themselves...not a man and certainly not the government.

That's great advice for any young person. People can better their situation in this country, It's a matter of desire and work ethic. If someone chooses to let the government provide for them, then they will never be financially independent.

Minimum wage was a means to an end for me when I started working. A temporary arrangement. People that are willing to accept that, but not be content with it, can better themselves financially. Nowadays, people don't have the patience to stay at a place long term, move up the ladder and secure a retirement for themselves. They want a quick fix, so they end up with no real plan to get there.

[8timechamps]

things aren't like they were 30 years ago. minimum wage hasn't kept up with cost of living.

good luck finding a job where you can retire at 55 anymore. do new postal employees even get the same benefits or relative pay you did? i doubt it.

it's easy to say all you have to do is work hard and go to school, but it's not that simple. and again, this isn't about me, i have no room to complain about my personal situation. my mom was a single mom with a good job and had more than enough money.

But it really is that simple. The hard part is doing it. You show me someone that has gone to school and works hard, and I'll show you someone that isn't on minimum wage. There are plenty of people out there with degrees that aren't hard workers, and it shows in their income. There are also plenty of people without degrees, that are hard workers...and it shows in their income. Telling potential employers that you "work hard" and actually working hard are two different things, and in my experience hiring folks over the past 10+ years, I've found it's very easy to say you're a hard worker, but unfortunately, most aren't.

So, it really is as simple as go to school and/or work hard.

[bluedogok]

Yep, minimum wage was never meant to be a "living wage". I never viewed it as that and it was never presented to me as that.

I will say that with many places of employment there really is no "moving up" and getting ahead anymore, even if you do move up it is only and slight raise in pay but a huge increase in responsibility. Massive cuts in middle management levels have really taken that out of the conversation many companies. My wife's current position is very much that way and it is a large charity organization, her best option is finding something else. She was at her former agency in Austin for 14 years and was pretty much the #2 there but had no desire to be the #1 there, with her boss heading towards retirement she was ready to move to cooler weather. I know at my old firm in OKC where you made the money was in the project management level, my father and I both figured out that we didn't really like that job and preferred to be at the level below that (Project Architect/Engineer level) but middle management is where the money was. My most significant raises were always when I was hired back at that firm (twice), I was there a total of 11 years and 8 years in the last stint before leaving to move to Austin, my father was there for 34.5 years before retiring. Most small A/E firms have very little opportunity to move up until the principles decide to retire and sell out, that is why most go out and open up their own firms which is what I plan to do in 5-10 years.

[olevetonahill]

The fact that his mother was a teacher at that school also means he probably had a very good working knowledge of how that school worked and the layout. He would also probably have been recognized by the staff and not immediately assessed as a threat until he pulled a weapon out. A much different scenario than someone not familiar with the school or staff.

That FACT has been repudiated . In Fact reports NOW rae that Mom NEVER worked there .

[yermom]

The fact that his mother was a teacher at that school also means he probably had a very good working knowledge of how that school worked and the layout. He would also probably have been recognized by the staff and not immediately assessed as a threat until he pulled a weapon out. A much different scenario than someone not familiar with the school or staff.

last i heard was that his mother didn't work there. i think there may have been confusion initially because he shot her before going there and she was being reported as shot in some stories, while others they weren't saying who was shot at the family home.

i'm not sure, but he might have been a student at the school as a kid before his mom home schooled him

[yermom]

Yep, minimum wage was never meant to be a "living wage". I never viewed it as that and it was never presented to me as that.

I will say that with many places of employment there really is no "moving up" and getting ahead anymore, even if you do move up it is only and slight raise in pay but a huge increase in responsibility. Massive cuts in middle management levels have really taken that out of the conversation many companies. My wife's current position is very much that way and it is a large charity organization, her best option is finding something else. She was at her former agency in Austin for 14 years and was pretty much the #2 there but had no desire to be the #1 there, with her boss heading towards retirement she was ready to move to cooler weather. I know at my old firm in OKC where you made the money was in the project management level, my father and I both figured out that we didn't really like that job and preferred to be at the level below that (Project Architect/Engineer level) but middle management is where the money was. My most significant raises were always when I was hired back at that firm (twice), I was there a total of 11 years and 8 years in the last stint before leaving to move to Austin, my father was there for 34.5 years before retiring. Most small A/E firms have very little opportunity to move up until the principles decide to retire and sell out, that is why most go out and open up their own firms which is what I plan to do in 5-10 years.

yeah, to get anywhere anymore you have to change employers. no one seems to care much about retention.

[bluedogok]

That FACT has been repudiated . In Fact reports NOW rae that Mom NEVER worked there .
Well, I haven't paid much attention to it this weekend so that was going off the last reports that I heard on Saturday morning.

Did he go to school there?

[olevetonahill]

Well, I haven't paid much attention to it this weekend so that was going off the last reports that I heard on Saturday morning.

Did he go to school there?

I think so, Then from what I have heard His Momma Pulled him out

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Now I've lost track. What does minimum wage have to do with the school shootings?

[yermom]

Now I've lost track. What does minimum wage have to do with the school shootings?

if mommy was at home to take care of her kids, like God intended, then this would have never happened.

oh and broken homes, and godlessness or something.

[FaninAma]

if mommy was at home to take care of her kids, like God intended, then this would have never happened.

oh and broken homes, and godlessness or something.

2 parent families with both parents taking an interest and active role in their childrens' lives is the best predictor of successful kids. Denying this fact doesn't change it. I am glad you had such a good mother. I and my brother were raised by my mother until we were teenagers when she remarried and it was a struggle.

[yermom]

if we are talking about little Johnny going to college, i'd agree

this goes a little beyond "mommy didn't hug me enough"

[8timechamps]

if we are talking about little Johnny going to college, i'd agree

this goes a little beyond "mommy didn't hug me enough"

It doesn't go beyond involved parents though. I too was raised by a single mother, and fortunately a good one. But, it's much harder for a single parent to be involved in a child's life. There is no denying that when both parents take an active interest in their children's lives, it's much easier to know when a child is struggling. Of course "knowing" and "seeking help" are two separate issues.

[FirstandGoal]

As I've said before, me and my siblings were raised by a single mom. Two of us pretty much stayed out of trouble, but my younger hell raising brother didn't. He would have been a trial for the most devoted 2 parents in the world, but that kid in that situation (he was the youngest, his sister and I had already moved out by the time he was a teen, and our mom was working every single day and night-- he had zero supervision and accountability) was never gonna have a good ending. Like I said, he would have challenged the most dedicated of couples and the strongest of men. Sadly, he had neither.

I've had the misfortune to being a single parent myself. Hey, there's really not a whole lot you can do when the father of your children decides that he wants to check out and doesn't really want to be a part of the whole "responsibility scene". For the most part, I was pretty lucky to have 2 decent kids. My son gave me more troubles (got arrested for smoking pot, snuck in the house once and drank some beer with his buddies) but all in all I've been very lucky. Hell, he hasn't done anything a lot of preachers kids who have been raised in the strictest of environments has done.

The bottom line is that most of my son's "incidents" were just normal teenage-boys-being-dumbass stuff than it ever was any indication of him being a bad apple. Would it have been easier had I had the help and support of his father in his life? Heck yea. My son told his dad to **** off when he was 15 and hasn't had any interaction with him since. Just very recently they've been talking again a bit (mostly at my urging because I just don't think its mentally healthy to have such hatred for one of your parents and I think he needs to be able to work through his baggage with his father) and as he approaches 20 I can see a more responsible person emerging.
My daughter is a handful because she's 15, but beyond that she's the kind of daughter that any parent would die to have. She's active in all sorts of activities, has a bunch of friendships with strong, well-grounded females, goes to church every week and makes great grades. She's both passionate and compassionate in her approach to life and through me she sees how a strong woman can survive on her own, but also sees my struggles to do it without a husband or even a partner.
I choose not to have a husband or boyfriend right now because I choose to be a mother first and foremost and dedicate what free time I do have at the end of the day to focus on my children. I've also taught her that there is a season for everything in life and that our season of being a tight family unit is dwindling (my son moved out with friends this summer, she's at the most 4 years away from doing the same) but that along with the change comes both good and bad.
One day I will be able to go out and pursue more of a social life, but right now I'm too busy being a mom.

LOL, maybe I'll even decide to start dating eventually.

[sooneron]

Pretty sure that Klebold and Harris had typical nuclear family upbringings with God and all that stuff...

[JiuJitsuSooner]

My buddies little 7 yr old cousin "Grace Mcdonell" was killed in the shooting, she was cremated on sunday because unfortunately the damage was so bad to her little body, her funeral is either wednesday or thur. Still shocked about this, It's even crossed my mind a time or two to not have kids after all.. Im just sick about it, this world is really becoming scary!! It's a shame

Anyway Anderson Cooper is doing a special about Grace & her family tonight on CNN, so if anyone can stand to shed a few more tears then tune in because it will be a good segment.

[8timechamps]

Pretty sure that Klebold and Harris had typical nuclear family upbringings with God and all that stuff...

Not really.

Both were in very similar family structures, parents were still married, living under the same roof, etc. However, in both cases, the parents were not involved in their kids lives (grossly absent). Most of the planning for the Columbine shootings was done in their homes/basements, and that's where the weapons were stored. All of the evidence recovered (video's, maps, etc.) from their homes were in 'plain view'. In other words, the investigators didn't have to break through secure firewalls to retrieve the information. A cursory computer search would have revealed everything.

From the outside looking in, both families appeared 'normal', after the details came out, they were anything but.

[picasso]

My buddies little 7 yr old cousin "Grace Mcdonell" was killed in the shooting, she was cremated on sunday because unfortunately the damage was so bad to her little body, her funeral is either wednesday or thur. Still shocked about this, It's even crossed my mind a time or two to not have kids after all.. Im just sick about it, this world is really becoming scary!! It's a shame

Anyway Anderson Cooper is doing a special about Grace & her family tonight on CNN, so if anyone can stand to shed a few more tears then tune in because it will be a good segment.
Thanks for sharing. I just can't imagine what those parents are going through. I've tried not to go there but your first thought is your own little ones.

I think the biggest mistake right now out of this tragedy is that folks are trying to make quick decisions based on emotion.

I'm keeping my guns just in case someone decides they want to break into my house. Thanks.

[MsProudSooner]

The mother in this instance was a stay at home mom. From what I've read, she pretty much devoted her life to caring for him because he had so many issues. Nothing I've ever read about Asperger's indicates it could be blamed for his actions. There was something else wrong with him. I read a comment after an article where someone said the mother had decided to try to have him institutionalized and that sent him over the edge. The same person indicated the mother had volunteered at the school and he was extremely jealous of that. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

[8timechamps]

The mother in this instance was a stay at home mom. From what I've read, she pretty much devoted her life to caring for him because he had so many issues. Nothing I've ever read about Asperger's indicates it could be blamed for his actions. There was something else wrong with him. I read a comment after an article where someone said the mother had decided to try to have him institutionalized and that sent him over the edge. The same person indicated the mother had volunteered at the school and he was extremely jealous of that. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

I'm thinking there was something wrong with the mother too (RIP). She thought it would be a good idea to introduce guns to a kid with severe mental issues. Sometimes, it's easy to know what not to do.

[MsProudSooner]

I'm thinking there was something wrong with the mother too (RIP). She thought it would be a good idea to introduce guns to a kid with severe mental issues. Sometimes, it's easy to know what not to do.

I don't quite follow that logic, either. I've seen statements that he was diagnosed with Asperger's but never saw anything that said he received any kind of therapy that might have helped him cope.

[FirstandGoal]

I don't quite follow that logic, either. I've seen statements that he was diagnosed with Asperger's but never saw anything that said he received any kind of therapy that might have helped him cope.

LOL, when I first read your comment I misread and was thinking that you weren't following 8TC's logic, but then on a closer re-read I get it. Yeah, I have no idea why a mother who knows her son is mentally unstable (at best) would ever teach her son to shoot more accurately.
Makes no sense.

[C&CDean]

I have a grandson with autism. I teach him to shoot. Only problem is he prefers chicken riot on wii.

Kids...

[8timechamps]

I have a grandson with autism. I teach him to shoot. Only problem is he prefers chicken riot on wii.

Kids...

I'm thinking there's a huge difference between your grandson, and the kid in CT. For starters, I doubt he's hurting for quality family interaction.

[olevetonahill]

Bet This kid grows up with values

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/mom-makes-son-carry-sign-being-disrespectful-public-173700623.html