Nothing new...GOP/Dems can't agree.

[8timechamps]

We're right back where we were a year ago. Close to falling over "the cliff", and the Reps/Dems can't agree on anything. This will come down to the last possible second, then they will reach some kind of half assed agreement that will kick the can to next year.

The Dems won't agree to anything that doesn't tax the upper end, the Republicans want to fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening.

Why the f**k is Washington so inept? At this point, I think the country needs to "go over the cliff". We need to be held accountable, then fix this mess.

[Sooner5030]

what is the cliff?

what the mob does not know is that all the rescheduled growth achieved by deficits (lower taxes/higher spending) cannot be sustained forever. If we had not lowered the rates and increased spending in the first place then we would not have climbed the cliff we are about to fall off of.....yet we want to climb higher only to delay the inevitable fall.

[SoonerorLater]

We're right back where we were a year ago. Close to falling over "the cliff", and the Reps/Dems can't agree on anything. This will come down to the last possible second, then they will reach some kind of half assed agreement that will kick the can to next year.

The Dems won't agree to anything that doesn't tax the upper end, the Republicans want to fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening.

Why the f**k is Washington so inept? At this point, I think the country needs to "go over the cliff". We need to be held accountable, then fix this mess.

I disagree. They aren't inept. The Republican controlled House is doing what they were elected to do, be a foil to Barack Obama. Obama the same thing with the House. Right now I hope both sides just walk away and let this play out. We've spent too much money that we don't have for too long. Time for America to pay up, the tab is due.

[LiveLaughLove]

We're right back where we were a year ago. Close to falling over "the cliff", and the Reps/Dems can't agree on anything. This will come down to the last possible second, then they will reach some kind of half assed agreement that will kick the can to next year.

The Dems won't agree to anything that doesn't tax the upper end, the Republicans want to fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening.

Why the f**k is Washington so inept? At this point, I think the country needs to "go over the cliff". We need to be held accountable, then fix this mess.

The premise is wrong, but its how the media is portraying it. The republicans want spending cuts that they are not getting. Its the, give us the tax hikes first, then we can talk spending cuts thing from the democrats.

Both things should be on the table at the same time.

Instead Obama offers tax hikes, a stimulus spending plan, and wants a limitless debt ceiling thrown in for good measure. The only actual spending cut he offers is, surprise surprise, defense spending.

[soonercruiser]

Here is a picture of what is going on in Washington this weeK!
A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words - usually lost words for the Left!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/fiscalcliffleanings.gif

[soonercruiser]

Whats new!
Obama promises the Repug House and Boehner....goes back on his word!
(that was last year and the year before.)

The president says that he wants a "balanced approach"....starts compromises with the Repugs promising for $800 Billion in increased revenues. Obama thinks a while - sends the tax chief Geitner to Congress.....DOUBLES the revenue demands to $1.6 TRILLION......and promises some spending cuts in the future...maybe.....and let him control the Debt Ceiling!
BULLSH**!
Obama lies again to the people and the House!
Who in their right mind would make a deal with this evil LIER???

[8timechamps]

I disagree. They aren't inept. The Republican controlled House is doing what they were elected to do, be a foil to Barack Obama. Obama the same thing with the House. Right now I hope both sides just walk away and let this play out. We've spent too much money that we don't have for too long. Time for America to pay up, the tab is due.

Maybe "inept" was a little harsh, but I see you get the point. I completely agree, the tab is due and I don't want my kids stuck with it (although, given the size, I'm sure they will be).

[cleller]

Maybe "inept" was a little harsh, but I see you get the point. I completely agree, the tab is due and I don't want my kids stuck with it (although, given the size, I'm sure they will be).

It's $142,000 per taxpayer right now. Imagine trying to extract that type of cash from Joe Typical Taxpayer.

[SoonerorLater]

Another hair-brained scheme being floated out there to prevent taking a responsible approach to governance. In a different time I would have laughed this off as an absurdity.

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/mint-trillion-dollar-coin

[badger]

I like Coburn's idea to NOT PAY congress et al if they can't reach an agreement. I don't expect Congress to vote themselves the ultimate pay cut, but it's at least putting some public pressure on them to meet somewhere in the middle (even if the middle is slightly right or left of center... or a lot, just meet somewhere!)

[Midtowner]

The Dems are firmly in control on this one. If the Reps don't cave, we go over the cliff and guess who gets to be the heroes proposing reasonable tax reform. Being dogmatic is what backs you into corners like this. I'm pretty sure we're going over the cliff and it may darn well cost the Republicans the House.

[badger]

The Dems are firmly in control on this one. If the Reps don't cave, we go over the cliff and guess who gets to be the heroes proposing reasonable tax reform. Being dogmatic is what backs you into corners like this. I'm pretty sure we're going over the cliff and it may darn well cost the Republicans the House.

Being arrogant is what got George W. in the White House and Republican majorities for about a decade. Democrats can be stupid-level arrogant like Chicago's mayor, or they can recognize that the incumbent president's midterm second term elections are usually where the majorities his party holds are usually lost. W. lost his in 2006, Clinton lost his in 1998, if I recall correctly.

Compromise!!!!!!!!

[Midtowner]

Compromise!!!!!!!!

Arrogance is placing the welfare of 98% of America behind 2%.

Arrogance was the Republican minority's refusal to participate meaningfully in healthcare reform (except to try and obstruct absolutely anything proposed).

Arrogance is not realizing the other side has a much better hand and not folding.

And this time things are different as the media is largely siding with the Democrats here. Moderates will blame an inflexible Republcan House--especially later when that same House opposes tax cuts for the middle class to the exclusion of the top 2%. That's a fight the Democrats can't wait for.

[cleller]

Some Republicans are in the uncomfortable position of realizing the Obama administration is incapable of making any meaningful progress toward cutting the deficit.
They are forced with trying to hold out until the Dems into some real cutting, or let this go on for several more years until we are slowly placed onto an even worse footing.
Its cave now, pay much more later, or look stupid now, and hope to try and get ahold of things. Lousy position. I already posted this once, but it demonstrates on how much we can rely on the White House's projections. According to them, we should have already been almost out of the woods by now. This was their best case scenario, and still looks like crap: 2009

http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/ProjectedBudgetDeficit.jpg

[okie52]

Arrogance is placing the welfare of 98% of America behind 2%.

Arrogance was the Republican minority's refusal to participate meaningfully in healthcare reform (except to try and obstruct absolutely anything proposed).

Arrogance is not realizing the other side has a much better hand and not folding.

And this time things are different as the media is largely siding with the Democrats here. Moderates will blame an inflexible Republcan House--especially later when that same House opposes tax cuts for the middle class to the exclusion of the top 2%. That's a fight the Democrats can't wait for.

Clinton placed 98% in the same boat with the 2% when he established his tax rates...and that was during a recession. Just letting all of the tax cuts expire will be wonderful except for those that don't believe in a "shared sacrifice".

4 to 1 on taxes versus spending cuts as proposed by the dems and Obama...what a compromise.

Better hand? Obama pushed through Obamacare that was opposed by 60% of the public...his bill still stinks.

Better to go down in opposing insanity than to vote for it.

[Midtowner]

Clinton placed 98% in the same boat with the 2% when he established his tax rates...and that was during a recession. Just letting all of the tax cuts expire will be wonderful except for those that don't believe in a "shared sacrifice".

The middle class is shrinking. If we can use our tax code to help a few more people make it in the middle class, that's the way to go.


4 to 1 on taxes versus spending cuts as proposed by the dems and Obama...what a compromise.

Oh that's all Kabuki. If you can believe Bill Clinton, we're close to a deal.


Better hand? Obama pushed through Obamacare that was opposed by 60% of the public...his bill still stinks.

Better to go down in opposing insanity than to vote for it.

ObamaCare was originally a Republican bill. What alternative was offered? Fix everything with more tort reform? ObamaCare was unpopular due to excellent PR by Republican operatives and horrible PR by the Dems. People heard phrases like "death panels" and gaffes like "we'll let you read it after we pass it" and (R) operatives seized on the fear and uncertainty.

As it has become a reality, half as many people oppose the plan as did in '09.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

Following the trend, as more parts go into effect, it may end up being an extremely popular program.

[JohnnyMack]

ObamaCare was originally a Republican bill. What alternative was offered? Fix everything with more tort reform? ObamaCare was unpopular due to excellent PR by Republican operatives and horrible PR by the Dems. People heard phrases like "death panels" and gaffes like "we'll let you read it after we pass it" and (R) operatives seized on the fear and uncertainty.

As it has become a reality, half as many people oppose the plan as did in '09.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

Following the trend, as more parts go into effect, it may end up being an extremely popular program.

I originally opposed and still oppose ObamaCare because I don't think it's going to lower healthcare costs. It will increase the size of the pool from both ends, which shouldn't bring the overall cost down. Then you add on administrative costs on top of it and I don't see how it lowers healthcare costs.

[badger]

Clinton placed 98% in the same boat with the 2% when he established his tax rates...and that was during a recession. Just letting all of the tax cuts expire will be wonderful except for those that don't believe in a "shared sacrifice".

California voted to raise its own taxes... but it was mostly a rich people tax. I suspect that many people voted for the Democratic Senate majority and Obama with a "rich tax" in mind, not an "everyone tax."

But really... aren't people tapped out yet? The way prices are going up on everything despite the fact that wages are stagnant, unemployment is high and there's a fiscal cliff around the corner... it makes me think everyone is outta touch with reality.

[Midtowner]

Taxes are historically low, spending is historically high. Both have to give.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

It's probably better for the Republicans if they lose the House and everything over the next 4 years gets blamed on the Dems. The only growth our economy has now is due to deficit spending. It's completely unsustainable and not likely to change anytime soon. Meanwhile the Fed's neverending currency devaluation pushes food and energy prices higher, making the rich richer and squeezing the middle class. The great lie of the Obama administration is that all he's done has been to increase the wealth gap in this country.

[okie52]

The middle class is shrinking. If we can use our tax code to help a few more people make it in the middle class, that's the way to go.



Oh that's all Kabuki. If you can believe Bill Clinton, we're close to a deal.



ObamaCare was originally a Republican bill. What alternative was offered? Fix everything with more tort reform? ObamaCare was unpopular due to excellent PR by Republican operatives and horrible PR by the Dems. People heard phrases like "death panels" and gaffes like "we'll let you read it after we pass it" and (R) operatives seized on the fear and uncertainty.

As it has become a reality, half as many people oppose the plan as did in '09.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

Following the trend, as more parts go into effect, it may end up being an extremely popular program.

We have a debt problem and just targeting the top 2% that only represents 1/5 of what would be obtained by reverting to the old clinton tax rates (per the CBO) isn't the "shared sacrifice", it's just class warfare.

Kabuki, eh?


White House offer on avoiding fiscal cliff


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...6pLid%3D239856

GOP aides say Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner presented an offer calling for $1.6 trillion in new tax revenue over the coming decade, extending the 2 percentage point payroll tax deduction or something comparable to it and $50 billion in stimulus spending on infrastructure projects.

The White House plan calls for $960 billion over the coming decade by increasing tax rates and taxes on investment income on upper-bracket earners and $600 billion in additional taxes. Republicans view the offer as a step backward with the fiscal cliff – an economy-rattling set of automatic spending cuts and tax increases – looming at years' end.

The only new spending cuts in the plan would come from administration proposals curbing health care programs by $400 billion over the coming decade and modest cuts from non-health programs like farm subsidies and cutting Postal Service costs and through higher fees on airline tickets. The plan would also boost spending by extending unemployment benefits for the long-term jobless, deferring looming cuts to Medicare payments to physicians and helping homeowners refinance "underwater" mortgages..

The aides said that Geithner also requested the equivalent of a permanent extension of the government's borrowing ability to avoid wrangling over the issue as in last year's summertime crisis over raising the so-called debt limit.

The measure would block $109 billion in automatic across-the-board spending cuts known as a sequester from striking the economy in January.


Nobody has been paying anything yet on Obamacare...when they do we will see how the public feels about a half *** bill that does little to contain costs.

The pubs proposed universal healthcare in the 70's and Ted Kennedy killed it. But supporting universal healthcare doesn't mean supporting a piece of **** bill. I'm all for going for what the Swiss have but that would also mean embracing all of their cost containment measures...which includes loser pays and liability caps. They pay about 1/2 of what we are paying now. Now surely you can embrace such a bill that would incorporate those kind of savings as well as providing universal healthcare rather than the crap that is Obamacare...can't you?

[okie52]

California voted to raise its own taxes... but it was mostly a rich people tax. I suspect that many people voted for the Democratic Senate majority and Obama with a "rich tax" in mind, not an "everyone tax."

But really... aren't people tapped out yet? The way prices are going up on everything despite the fact that wages are stagnant, unemployment is high and there's a fiscal cliff around the corner... it makes me think everyone is outta touch with reality.

I'm not averse to raising taxes if it won't hurt the economy but we certainly need to be doing more to cut spending than about raising taxes. That doesn't appear to be what Obama is offering.

[pphilfran]

I'm not averse to raising taxes if it won't hurt the economy but we certainly need to be doing more to cut spending than about raising taxes. That doesn't appear to be what Obama is offering.

I don't think we need to be doing much of either until the world economy gets on firmer footing...

What will probably happen is we will have much gnashing of teeth from both sides and come up with more taxes and less spending...a plan that everyone hates....then we have a recession so we cut taxes and increase spending to counteract the recession and end up back where we started with even more debt...

[okie52]

I don't think we need to be doing much of either until the world economy gets on firmer footing...

What will probably happen is we will have much gnashing of teeth from both sides and come up with more taxes and less spending...a plan that everyone hates....then we have a recession so we cut taxes and increase spending to counteract the recession and end up back where we started with even more debt...

Maybe so...the economy (ours and the world's) is the key.

[cleller]

I'm not averse to raising taxes if it won't hurt the economy but we certainly need to be doing more to cut spending than about raising taxes. That doesn't appear to be what Obama is offering.

Funny how there's not much attention focused on that. If your household were in this sort of state, just asking for a raise at work wouldn't solve the problem.

[okie52]

Funny how there's not much attention focused on that. If your household were in this sort of state, just asking for a raise at work wouldn't solve the problem.

There's a lot of stupidity out there.

[Soonerjeepman]

I'm just amazed that people actually think it's JUST THE PUBs with the issues...jeeze, seriously how hard is it to see CUTS need to be ON THE TABLE NOW..that is compromise.

You guys that support obama, really want him to have TOTAL POWER in raising the debt ceiling? Give NO cuts?

I'll take the cliff...and let $hit flow where it must...