Pat Robertson's gone liberal

[SanJoaquinSooner]

4sKIymtsOAc

[yermom]

on occasion he drops wisdom, and i'm amazed.

[LiveLaughLove]

I don't get it. How is that stance liberal? That's the stance of at least 90-95% of Christians. At least.

The media has blown up the Young Earth thing because it plays into their "Christian kooks" meme. Very few Christians believe that the Earth is only 6k or 10k or whatever years old.

I know this may come as a double shock, but most Christians are not against science. We are against scientists that think they have disproven the existence of God.

Those liberal bastions Harvard, Yale, and almost every other Ivy League school were started as Christian schools of learning, because, another shock, Christians want to learn things, including the Sciences.

So Pat is espousing the by far most common view of Christians. The young Earth thing is, well, young.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I don't get it. How is that stance liberal? That's the stance of at least 90-95% of Christians. At least.

The media has blown up the Young Earth thing because it plays into their "Christian kooks" meme. Very few Christians believe that the Earth is only 6k or 10k or whatever years old.

I know this may come as a double shock, but most Christians are not against science. We are against scientists that think they have disproven the existence of God.

Those liberal bastions Harvard, Yale, and almost every other Ivy League school were started as Christian schools of learning, because, another shock, Christians want to learn things, including the Sciences.

So Pat is espousing the by far most common view of Christians. The young Earth thing is, well, young.

Yeah, he's espousing the views of liberal Christians - rather than the William Jennings Bryan view.

[LiveLaughLove]

Yeah, he's espousing the views of liberal Christians - rather than the William Jennings Bryan view.

I don't think myself or my church would be considered liberal in any way, but he espoused our views.

John Hagee is certainly not liberal but he has preached on those exact views before also. He even went in to great detail on where in Genesis 1 the dinosaurs appeared and went extinct well before the arrival of man.

Every church I've ever attended for any time at all has never mentioned the Earth being only a few thousand years old (though admittedly this isn't a big topic in church. Kind of busy with that whole Jesus thing), and I am pretty sure none of them were liberal in any sense of the word liberal, unless used in the context of liberally proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. They all liberally do that.

But that's fine. <Forrest Gump>I don't want to ruin your black panther party. </Forrest Gump>

So carry on.

[Soonerjeepman]

I don't think myself or my church would be considered liberal in any way, but he espoused our views.

Every church I've ever attended for any time at all has never mentioned the Earth being only a few thousand years old (though admittedly this isn't a big topic in church. Kind of busy with that whole Jesus thing), and I am pretty sure none of them were liberal in any sense of the word liberal, unless used in the context of liberally proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. They all liberally do that.

But that's fine. <Forrest Gump>I don't want to ruin your black panther party. </Forrest Gump>

So carry on.

yup

[SanJoaquinSooner]

That's the stance of at least 90-95% of Christians

Do you think most of the young earth believers are non-Christians?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx



that totally ruins my black panther party.

[SicEmBaylor]

Christians scare the bejesus out of me and the evangelical-kook right needs to be run out of the GOP like St. Patrick ran the snakes out of Ireland.

They are a threat to the principle of individual-liberty which is what the GOP is supposed to not only protect but EXPAND upon. They are also anti-intellectual/anti-learning ****. Not all of them of course, but L3's view and opinion of Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. is a pretty common opinion of academia from the religious-right.

It has to stop.

[BoulderSooner79]

Christians scare the bejesus out of me...

I see what you did there...

:D

[East Coast Bias]

That was a good defense of the literal view of the Bible. I had no idea dinosaurs were mentioned in there. Can you give us a scripture, I would like to see the wording on that one?
Of course you still have the problem of talking snakes, folks that ride in the belly of whales, and various other tales....

[JohnnyMack]

I don't get it. How is that stance liberal? That's the stance of at least 90-95% of Christians. At least.

The media has blown up the Young Earth thing because it plays into their "Christian kooks" meme. Very few Christians believe that the Earth is only 6k or 10k or whatever years old.

I know this may come as a double shock, but most Christians are not against science. We are against scientists that think they have disproven the existence of God.

Those liberal bastions Harvard, Yale, and almost every other Ivy League school were started as Christian schools of learning, because, another shock, Christians want to learn things, including the Sciences.

So Pat is espousing the by far most common view of Christians. The young Earth thing is, well, young.

Question for you and any other religious person. If you accept that things such as the age of the earth being 4.5 billion years old, you'd also likely be OK with the age of the universe being around 14 billion years as well as that the universe is somewhere around 100 billion light years across, right? If you accept all that, how do you reconcile that a universe as old and as big as was mentioned above was created in such a seemingly inefficient manner by your acknowledged deity? Why is it that your god created something so out of whack with what was necessary to sustain our existence?

[KantoSooner]

Didn't Pat come out recently in favor of legallizing weed? It was one of the televangelists. I'm just wondering if Pat perhaps made these comments after a few bong hits. It certainly won't help his core devotion to fundraising very much.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

My narrow minded opinion on all of it..and I undertand this is a thread about one of these subjects, but I rarely interject in these discusions:

I believe in Christ..have most of my life..I believe in trying to be the person he wants me to be..As a follower, knowledge on dinosaurs, the age of the earth, unicorns, where hell or heaven is..

If we can't get our attitudes right towards the poor matched up with those of Christ, then why should we as followers be concerned with any of those things?

Another page of our desire to be right outweighing being people that get out and do what is right.

Johnny, my answer to your post is "I don't know."

[stoops the eternal pimp]

And maybe my post is directed more towards Pat Robertson who sits on TV claiming to a man of God, talking about things that shouldn't matter to us, and consistently refers to the poor in this country as "lazy."

[olevetonahill]

Question for you and any other religious person. If you accept that things such as the age of the earth being 4.5 billion years old, you'd also likely be OK with the age of the universe being around 14 billion years as well as that the universe is somewhere around 100 billion light years across, right? If you accept all that, how do you reconcile that a universe as old and as big as was mentioned above was created in such a seemingly inefficient manner by your acknowledged deity? Why is it that your god created something so out of whack with what was necessary to sustain our existence?
To your knowledge and believe its All out of whack, Dont necessarily mean its so.

[JohnnyMack]

To your knowledge and believe its All out of whack, Dont necessarily mean its so.

Is that even English?

[SoonerorLater]

Question for you and any other religious person. If you accept that things such as the age of the earth being 4.5 billion years old, you'd also likely be OK with the age of the universe being around 14 billion years as well as that the universe is somewhere around 100 billion light years across, right? If you accept all that, how do you reconcile that a universe as old and as big as was mentioned above was created in such a seemingly inefficient manner by your acknowledged deity? Why is it that your god created something so out of whack with what was necessary to sustain our existence?

Let me ask you a question. If our existence isn't born of God what is your explanation for all of this? In other words can you postulate a reasonable hypothesis for cognitive existence?

[KantoSooner]

How do we know any of this is real?

And now we enter that most hideous of philophical whirlpools. I give you EPISTOMOLOGY!

[LiveLaughLove]

That was a good defense of the literal view of the Bible. I had no idea dinosaurs were mentioned in there. Can you give us a scripture, I would like to see the wording on that one?
Of course you still have the problem of talking snakes, folks that ride in the belly of whales, and various other tales....

I don't think I said dinosaurs were "mentioned" in Genesis. I think I said he shows where they appeared. I haven't seen that particular sermon in several years, and really don't remember it verbatim.

Feel free to go to his website and purchase his sermons and find it for yourself. You might learn something.

[LiveLaughLove]

Question for you and any other religious person. If you accept that things such as the age of the earth being 4.5 billion years old, you'd also likely be OK with the age of the universe being around 14 billion years as well as that the universe is somewhere around 100 billion light years across, right? If you accept all that, how do you reconcile that a universe as old and as big as was mentioned above was created in such a seemingly inefficient manner by your acknowledged deity? Why is it that your god created something so out of whack with what was necessary to sustain our existence?

I'm not really sure what you are asking, and surprise surprise, I don't agree with your premise.

You would have us believe that everything came from nothing by nothing for nothing. I don't have that much faith.

Don't give me the black matter quantum physics crap. It's just that, crap. It's pseudo-science to fill in holes that can't be filled by normal sciences.

Everything we know about the creation of the Universe fits within the precepts of the Bible, even though the Bible is not meant to be a science book.

You will disagree and there we are. I don't hope to persuade you or any other non-believer. And this may surprise you, but I don't really care if you do or not.

[LiveLaughLove]

Christians scare the bejesus out of me and the evangelical-kook right needs to be run out of the GOP like St. Patrick ran the snakes out of Ireland.

They are a threat to the principle of individual-liberty which is what the GOP is supposed to not only protect but EXPAND upon. They are also anti-intellectual/anti-learning ****. Not all of them of course, but L3's view and opinion of Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. is a pretty common opinion of academia from the religious-right.

It has to stop.

Yeah, we are the problem. I would really dislike me and other Christians too if we were as we are caricatured like on here and elsewhere.

Here's an idea, you guys leave and go start another party.

I personally am all for splitting the Republican party and going local and state in elections.

As for the anti this and anti that, whatever. You know nothing about me or my family and what we believe about education.

You call us kooks. That's rich from a Ron Paul disciple. You probably thought Uncle Fester was the normal one on the Addams Family.

[KantoSooner]

Don't give me the black matter quantum physics crap. It's just that, crap.

Everything we know about the creation of the Universe fits within the precepts of the Bible.

You will disagree and there we are. I don't hope to persuade you or any other non-believer. And this may surprise you, but I don't really care if you do or not.



I do believe that, at long last, we've finally beaten the issue down to the point of ultimate simplicity.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah, we are the problem. I would really dislike me and other Christians too if we were as we are caricatured like on here and elsewhere.

Here's an idea, you guys leave and go start another party.

I personally am all for splitting the Republican party and going local and state in elections.

As for the anti this and anti that, whatever. You know nothing about me or my family and what we believe about education.

You call us kooks. That's rich from a Ron Paul disciple. You probably thought Uncle Fester was the normal one on the Addams Family.
Actually, I would love to see the Republican Party die. A complete reorganization of the American political landscape needs to take place. There needs to be at least two clearly different political parties that are more than just "diet" and "regular" versions of the same ****ty drink. The statists, moralists, and everyone else who believe in using the powers of government to limit liberty, expand the size and scope of government, and have no problem using the power of the national state to coerce people into behaving or acting a certain way need to have a party all to themselves. Within that party, primaries would then come down to whether you want a left/right flavor of statist.

The other party need to be a bastion and last redoubt of liberty and limited-government. A party that opposes coercive forces whether they be from the left or right. Those are fights I want to have. True liberty v. government coercion. It's a sad f'n day in this country when even so-called "conservatives" consider liberty-leaning people like myself as "kooks" or the "fringe."

I weep for the Republic.

[SicEmBaylor]

FWIW, as a Deist, I really have absolutely no problem with a person's religious beliefs. I consider some of it (well okay a lot of it) to be bizarre but whatever floats your boat.

Where I have a problem is when people believe their own personal religious beliefs should be the basis for constructing and determining public policy. Then it becomes a big f'n problem to me. Unfortunately, the Republican Party has a hell of a lot of people who believe their own personal beliefs should be the basis of public policy....as does the Democrat Party (in its own way).

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I don't think I said dinosaurs were "mentioned" in Genesis. I think I said he shows where they appeared. I haven't seen that particular sermon in several years, and really don't remember it verbatim.

Feel free to go to his website and purchase his sermons and find it for yourself. You might learn something.

I'd charge him 10 cents per word to read it.

[LiveLaughLove]

I'd charge him 10 cents per word to read it.

Yeah, I'm sure he'd pay too.

[SoonerorLater]

FWIW, as a Deist, I really have absolutely no problem with a person's religious beliefs. I consider some of it (well okay a lot of it) to be bizarre but whatever floats your boat.

Where I have a problem is when people believe their own personal religious beliefs should be the basis for constructing and determining public policy. Then it becomes a big f'n problem to me. Unfortunately, the Republican Party has a hell of a lot of people who believe their own personal beliefs should be the basis of public policy....as does the Democrat Party (in its own way).

Where do you draw that line? I would suggest that there is a significant difference between an activist electorate with a religious moral imperative and an out and out theocracy. If you can assume that each person votes their self-interest in a way that draws from the total set of their beliefs and life experiences then you shouldn't expect anybody to have to put these beliefs aside when they cast their ballots.

[JohnnyMack]

Let me ask you a question. If our existence isn't born of God what is your explanation for all of this? In other words can you postulate a reasonable hypothesis for cognitive existence?

Call it galactic happenstance. We don't have the ability to travel across our own solar system, much less thoroughly investigate our galaxy. Our galaxy alone could have 200 BILLION solar systems. Now keep in mind there are at minimum 100 BILLION galaxies across the universe and I firmly believe that life isn't exclusive to our planet. There's simply no way in my mind that there aren't countless planets in the "goldilocks" zone of solar systems across the universe and that on many if those planets some sort of life exists.

[JohnnyMack]

I'm not really sure what you are asking, and surprise surprise, I don't agree with your premise.

You would have us believe that everything came from nothing by nothing for nothing. I don't have that much faith.

Don't give me the black matter quantum physics crap. It's just that, crap. It's pseudo-science to fill in holes that can't be filled by normal sciences.

Everything we know about the creation of the Universe fits within the precepts of the Bible, even though the Bible is not meant to be a science book.

You will disagree and there we are. I don't hope to persuade you or any other non-believer. And this may surprise you, but I don't really care if you do or not.

Have a good day.

[East Coast Bias]

I don't think I said dinosaurs were "mentioned" in Genesis. I think I said he shows where they appeared. I haven't seen that particular sermon in several years, and really don't remember it verbatim.

Feel free to go to his website and purchase his sermons and find it for yourself. You might learn something.


Well thanks for clearing everything up. Not likely I would check out his website, doubt anyone would find anything educational there.

[olevetonahill]

Is that even English?

Every word, If you cant understand then its on you.

[JohnnyMack]

Every word, If you cant understand then its on you.

You're a sweet old toot.

[olevetonahill]

You're a sweet old toot.

And I think yer goofy as hell. Love ya anyway, Specially when ya do that thing with yer tongue

[olevetonahill]

When it comes to How and where did we come from there's 3 skools of thot
#1 God created everything and everyone
#2 Folks dont really GAS one way ot the other
#3 then we have the JMs of the world that think there was a Giant Belch and fart and every thing just came into being .

Me Im kinda stuck on #2 :highly_amused:

[LiveLaughLove]

Well thanks for clearing everything up. Not likely I would check out his website, doubt anyone would find anything educational there.

Yeah well you're a typical open minded liberal now aren't you.

[East Coast Bias]

Yeah well you're a typical open minded liberal now aren't you.
Yes, I consider myself to be open-minded as I am sure you do. I don't go trolling around threads looking to insult people that don't agree with what I consider to be the truth.What I put out I put out as my opinion. I read the bible including Genesis with an open mind and in my opinion it is a nice piece of fiction. I would rank "Ulysses", "Lord of the Flies" and "Lord of the Rings" as better in style, plot and narrative effect and style.

In my opinion any effort to link dinosaurs with something in the bible is a fairly ridiculous concept, even for someone of Hagee's persuasion.