Unfunded Federal Liabilities: $86 TRILLION

[FaninAma]

http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/finance/news/why-16-trillion-only-hints-040600503.html?.b=index&.ts=1354028951&.intl=US&.lang=en

And we are being told that cutting the budget by $600 billion would be a disaster?
Fiscal judgement day is coming and it is coming soon boys and girls. Right now the politicians are simply
rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. See you at the bottom of the abyss.

[cleller]

Wasn't it you that called the last big bubble burst about a year before it happened?

Cheerful prospect. Can't even put you cash in a savings account now and hope to survive.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

But the libs will tell ya that we have plenty capacity to raise taxes and put more money in the gubment coffers...

The whole thing is a shell game and I fear will blow up, possibly in my life time.

[FaninAma]

Wasn't it you that called the last big bubble burst about a year before it happened?

Cheerful prospect. Can't even put you cash in a savings account now and hope to survive.
The 2008 crash was, is and will be the big one. It never was resolved. The Federal Reserve and Western governments put it off for a while by printing and propping up the zombie economy.

There is too much debt. It is unsustainable. You will do okay if you get out of debt and look for a big deflationary crash. Cash is exactly where I am at with some hedges in hard assets. Do your own research. I could be totally wrong and the Fed will be able to print its way out of this which would cause the equity markets to inflate and go up.

[Soonerjeepman]

wow...pretty scary, I pray and hope my kids/grand kids (don't have any yet) will see a good life, like I've had, but I doubt it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Start learning the Chinese anthem... I think we will be a satellite for them soon enough...

[KantoSooner]

I have never really understood how 'pay as you go' programs, like Social Security, were supposed to be stable over time.

That being said: how much of this 'debt' do we owe to ourselves? Most if not all if memory serves. We simply don't owe that high a percentage to foreigners.

End of the day? You could solve this easily, though not without consequence: repudiate the debt. Voila. Crushes Wall Street and the poor fools who bought government paper. Excellent and bad. Crushes all governments, at every level, abilty to borrow money for a long time. Excellent. Crushes economic activity for 5 years or so. Bad, but liveable. Obliterates savings completely and favors the tinfoil hat survivalists. Very bad and very bad.

All told, surviveable.

[Midtowner]

It'd probably cause a worldwide financial collapse. Ideas like Communism would start looking attractive to a lot of folks, extremism would be nuts. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

[sappstuf]

Dick Durbin was on one of the morning talk shows this weekend and again asserted that Social Security does not add to the deficit.

I used to think the Dems lied about it to pander to their base, but he said it at the same time he was saying Medicare and Medicaid need to be reformed.

So the only thing I find scarier than the 2nd ranking Dem in the Senate outright lying about SS is that he apparently doesn't know the fundamentals of the program and how it is paid for.

Ignorance or willful ignorance would be my two top guesses.

[pphilfran]

Dick Durbin was on one of the morning talk shows this weekend and again asserted that Social Security does not add to the deficit.

I used to think the Dems lied about it to pander to their base, but he said it at the same time he was saying Medicare and Medicaid need to be reformed.

So the only thing I find scarier than the 2nd ranking Dem in the Senate outright lying about SS is that he apparently doesn't know the fundamentals of the program and how it is paid for.

Ignorance or willful ignorance would be my two top guesses.

That is true...

But the other side of the coin is that SS is not in as bad a shape as many believe...it is easily fixable.....Medicare is where we are bleeding from all orifices....

[badger]

Fiscal judgement day is coming and it is coming soon boys and girls.
bread and circuses. where can we continue to pick them up?


Cheerful prospect. Can't even put you cash in a savings account now and hope to survive.
Another cheerful prospect: You will eventually die.

More cheerful prospect: They can't collect taxes and assets and anything else from you personally afterwards.


But the libs will tell ya that we have plenty capacity to raise taxes and put more money in the gubment coffers...
If it's any comfort so many other countries are passing "tax the rich" bills that it the rich will have less incentive to move away if we should increase their taxes a hair.


wow...pretty scary, I pray and hope my kids/grand kids (don't have any yet) will see a good life, like I've had, but I doubt it.
If that happens, they can just move to Mexico. After everyone down there moved up here for decades, I think Mexico owes us the chance to be illegal immigrants ourselves.


Start learning the Chinese anthem... I think we will be a satellite for them soon enough...
It's hard to learn. They change it every Olympics. Tis the way of the commie government.


I have never really understood how 'pay as you go' programs, like Social Security, were supposed to be stable over time.

That being said: how much of this 'debt' do we owe to ourselves? Most if not all if memory serves. We simply don't owe that high a percentage to foreigners.

End of the day? You could solve this easily, though not without consequence: repudiate the debt. Voila. Crushes Wall Street and the poor fools who bought government paper. Excellent and bad. Crushes all governments, at every level, abilty to borrow money for a long time. Excellent. Crushes economic activity for 5 years or so. Bad, but liveable. Obliterates savings completely and favors the tinfoil hat survivalists. Very bad and very bad.

All told, surviveable.
The oldest citizens will be the most screwed under this scenario, but they were also the ones who've benefitted from a life mostly filled with prosperity, so... what have the Greeks been telling those that have been screwed? We were all a part of this? Something like that.


It'd probably cause a worldwide financial collapse. Ideas like Communism would start looking attractive to a lot of folks, extremism would be nuts. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
Extremism always has it's power during times of strife. Communism is a form of extremism, so definitely.


Ignorance or willful ignorance would be my two top guesses.
I am guessing willful ignorance, much like people that throw credit card bills and mortgage PAST DUE notices in the trash rather than face the music. I've heard that requesting everything in writing will end the harassing phone calls!

...but seriously. Why worry? What can you personally do about it? If you can't personally do anything about it, don't worry.

[sappstuf]

That is true...

But the other side of the coin is that SS is not in as bad a shape as many believe...it is easily fixable.....Medicare is where we are bleeding from all orifices....

Easily fixable today... Keep ignoring the problem and it only gets bigger.

I thought Obamacare was going to "bend the cost curve downward"... That is what we were told repeatedly.

Are you saying we were lied to???

[badger]

Are you saying we were lied to???
Obama lies, granny dies ;)

[badger]

Are you saying we were lied to???
badger replies, double post thrives :mad:

[pphilfran]

Easily fixable today... Keep ignoring the problem and it only gets bigger.

I thought Obamacare was going to "bend the cost curve downward"... That is what we were told repeatedly.

Are you saying we were lied to???

i am not going to say we were lied to but they damn sure didn't put much in place to slow growth...though I can't really say what needs to be done to curb growth since healthcare costs in every country is growing at too fast a pace...the US is just starting from a higher initial cost level...

[KantoSooner]

Start learning the Chinese anthem... I think we will be a satellite for them soon enough...

Meh, I don't worry about them too much. We catch a cold, they get the flu. Their economy is struggling big time right now. Absent a nice global tail wind in the next 2-3 years, they fall into serious problems. It's a house of cards.

that said, most Chinese are very nice people and Mandarin is not really that hard to learn. Remember, little children all across China learn Mandarin every year. We really need to start living with them rather than fearing them. There are, after all, 1.3 billion of them. And Europe is far more of an economic threat to our well being.

[pphilfran]

badger replies, double post thrives :mad:

You're so clever....

[pphilfran]

Meh, I don't worry about them too much. We catch a cold, they get the flu. Their economy is struggling big time right now. Absent a nice global tail wind in the next 2-3 years, they fall into serious problems. It's a house of cards.

that said, most Chinese are very nice people and Mandarin is not really that hard to learn. Remember, little children all across China learn Mandarin every year. We really need to start living with them rather than fearing them. There are, after all, 1.3 billion of them. And Europe is far more of an economic threat to our well being.

Europe? I read today that they have the debt problem in Greece under control....lol

[Midtowner]

Europe? I read today that they have the debt problem in Greece under control....lol

Great. One less thing :)

[sappstuf]

At least our new Chinese overlords haven't got the slightest clue what sarcasm is... They've quoted The Onion that Kim Jong-Un is the Sexiest Man Alive for 2012

http://www.theonion.com/articles/kim-jongun-named-the-onions-sexiest-man-alive-for,30379/

And the story from the Chinese Newspaper completely with 50 pictures!

http://english.people.com.cn/90777/8035568.html

[TheHumanAlphabet]

At least our new Chinese overlords haven't got the slightest clue what sarcasm is... They've quoted The Onion that Kim Jong-Un is the Sexiest Man Alive for 2012

http://www.theonion.com/articles/kim-jongun-named-the-onions-sexiest-man-alive-for,30379/

And the story from the Chinese Newspaper completely with 50 pictures!

http://english.people.com.cn/90777/8035568.html

This deserves a thread of its own....

I love it when they are slammed! I am surprised the link is still active.

[badger]

This deserves a thread of its own....

I love it when they are slammed! I am surprised the link is still active.

great minds think alike. i posted a link to the ap story, the onion original and... the 55-page spread that the China Daily Online did after the "honor" :eek:

[jkjsooner]

Wasn't it you that called the last big bubble burst about a year before it happened?

Cheerful prospect. Can't even put you cash in a savings account now and hope to survive.

There were plenty of people calling the housing bubble many years before it happened. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the housing market and all the related Wall Street derivatives was an unsustainable bubble.

Unless you are dumb enough to buy into these lines used by realtors.


Housing will continue to climb 10% per year for the next couple of decades. (Do you math. It's absurd.)

We have a shortage of land and an abundance of buyers due to immigrants.

Housing prices never fall. (This is absolutely false. History is full of housing bubbles and busts.)

Californians can afford million dollar houses because they're using the $400k in equity from the sell of their starter home. (Okay, can those buying a starter home now afford a starter home worth $400k more? Do you not see that this argument is based on a shaky foundation that will collapse one day?)

Bubbles are for bathtubs not houses. (Yes, the realtors loved to use this one.)



And then there's one that has yet to be proven false but will some day. People can afford houses because the interest rates are so low. Right but when we have historic low interest rates there is no room for those rates to go but up. What happens to affordability and house prices when the rates inevitably rise?

The government knew all of this. Their plan was to stave off a major collapse until inflation catches up with housing prices. (They've been somewhat successful at doing this but clearly not entirely - thank goodness.)


Anyway, my point is that there were plenty of people screaming these things long before the collapse. It wasn't a secret to anyone paying attention.

[FaninAma]

jkj, the Federal Reserve will own 2/3 of mortgage backed securities by 2015. How many more can they buy?