So Minn. has em one also, Dude puts the Kill shot on a Teen intruder

[olevetonahill]

Minn. man says he 'fired more shots than I needed'


http://news.yahoo.com/minn-man-says-fired-more-shots-needed-183741818.html

[pphilfran]

Off to prison he goes...

[olevetonahill]

Off to prison he goes...

Moren likely, If he had stopped after wounding her and called the PoPo he would prolly be clear, But like Erskland (sp) He went that extra mile for the "Kill Shot"

[Wishboned]

After shooting her with both the Mini 14 and the .22-caliber revolver, he dragged her next to Brady. With her still gasping for air, he fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint says.

"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the complaint.



If that's true then...damn...

[olevetonahill]

If that's true then...damn...

Im thinkin the dude should have STFU and got that lawyer

[Midtowner]

If that's true then...damn...

I can't believe they only charged 2nd Degree. This should be a death penalty case.

[C&CDean]

I can't believe they only charged 2nd Degree. This should be a death penalty case.

Oh horse****. A. They broke into his home. B. There isn't a B.

Absolutely manslaughter for finishing them off, but the stupid fools broke into his ****ing house. And what kind of idiot/drunk/high person would come down the stairs after hearing a bunch of shooting that way? Didn't the dumb bitch watch any horror movies?

I 'm kinda torn on this one. I hope his lawyer can get his confession thrown out; but I do think he needs to spend a little time. Primarily for being as stupid as the kids for talking to the police without a lawyer.

[Midtowner]

Oh horse****. A. They broke into his home. B. There isn't a B.

I can see maybe an argument for self defense for killing the 17 year old boy, but the girl? He drug her into another room and when he heard her still gasping for air, he placed the gun under her chin and shot it up through her head to finish her off.

Horse****. A, that's murder in the first degree. B, there isn't a B.

I will give the girl a Darwin award though.

[pphilfran]

Manslaughter my ***...

[Midtowner]

Manslaughter my ***...

Side bar....

Does anyone else ever think "man's laughter" when they see manslaughter?

[pphilfran]

Nope...never looked at it that way...but apparently this shooter dude had that thought process...

[olevetonahill]

I can see the need fer some Nut house time, not necessarily Big house tho.Dude had been broke into before, Had guns stolen, Ok so if some one comes back and breaks in again If thats ME ima figure its moren likely the same bunch of arseholes , Up until he did the Kill shot he had done nuthin wrong IMHO

If I was a Juror and heard that he then finished the bitch off and waited till the next day to call The PoPo cause he dint want to disturb their Thanksgiving , Ima be figuring the Dude SNAPPED and is just a tad Loco

[Midtowner]

Well, the "snapped" part isn't what it takes to get to not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect.

In Minnesota, they follow the M'Naughten Rule, where a criminal defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity if, at the time of the alleged criminal act, the defendant was so deranged that they didn't know the nature or quality of her actions or, if they knew the nature and quality of her actions, they were so deranged that they did not know that what they were doing was wrong.

The burden is on the defense to prove that in Minnesota. In some places, it's on the state. It's a really tough burden to overcome and is used in less than 1% of criminal cases.

I just don't buy that he didn't understand that executing a defenseless teenage girl at point blank range wasn't wrong and that bothering the police on Turkey Day would be wrong. That doesn't really jive. I'd have charged with one count of second degree murder and one count of first. He probably needs to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, and I imagine he will, but with the sort of facts you need to prevail on M'Naughten, I just don't see that happening.

[olevetonahill]

So yer sayin the dude shouldn't have even shot the 1st punk down the stairs?

Yer Loco

[Turd_Ferguson]

Said he shot the dude in the face with the .223...I bet that was ugly.

[cleller]

Side bar....

Does anyone else ever think "man's laughter" when they see manslaughter?

Always.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I can't believe they only charged 2nd Degree. This should be a death penalty case.

I am sure the liberal people of Minn. think that the death penalty is no good and the guy can be rehabilitated...

He actually sounds proud of what he did. Sure his house has been broken into 2 or 3 times previously, but this, really?

IMO, all shots valid except for the "kill" shot to the girl. That was over the top...

[Midtowner]

I am sure the liberal people of Minn. think that the death penalty is no good and the guy can be rehabilitated...

He actually sounds proud of what he did. Sure his house has been broken into 2 or 3 times previously, but this, really?

IMO, all shots valid except for the "kill" shot to the girl. That was over the top...

Let me clarify.

I think the other shots may be defensible, but based on what I've read in the news, I'd favor at least charging him with Murder in the 2nd Degree for some of those shots which he even admitted under questioning were over the top. The "kill" shot is, at least under Oklahoma law something which, on the facts presented here would almost definitely qualify as premeditated murder. Unfortunately, I can't definitively answer that for Minnesota as the online access to their jury instructions is either pay-only or not existent.

I don't like the death penalty, but so long as we have it and are applying it fairly, this sounds like a pretty good case to apply it to.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Mid, my comment was not aimed at you, I hope you didn't take it that way...

BTW, Minn abolished the dp in 1911. Gov. Pawlenty tried to reinstate it, but he was denied...

[pphilfran]

So yer sayin the dude shouldn't have even shot the 1st punk down the stairs?

Yer Loco

He was well within his right to shoot both of their asses...but when he went about dragging one around and then seeing they were still alive and decided to pop them with a kill shot he went beyond his legal right...

[Midtowner]

Mid, my comment was not aimed at you, I hope you didn't take it that way...

BTW, Minn abolished the dp in 1911. Gov. Pawlenty tried to reinstate it, but he was denied...

Good for them. Still though, this should be murder in the first degree, though I suppose it doesn't make nearly as much of a difference. I can't imagine why T-Paw would have wanted to reinstate the death penalty. It's something with pretty much nothing going for it except that those to whom it's applied tend to have a low rate of recidivism.

[Breadburner]

I bet if they didnt break in none of this would have happened....

[olevetonahill]

I bet if they didnt break in none of this would have happened....

Valid point

[C&CDean]

I bet if they didnt break in none of this would have happened....

Ah. The whole gist of the deal.

All the back and forth over Murder 1 2 and 3, and the outright stupidity of saying "it's a death penalty case" really is nothing but a bunch of legal, reactionary mumbo jumbo.

When I was a punk and broke into houses I absolutely knew that getting shot 27 times in the face with an AR was a distinct and very real possibility. It's the chance you take if you're gonna do that kinda ****. Guess what? These dimwits chose the wrong house.

Oh don't get me wrong, dude will get his nuts cut bad - perhaps as bad as Ersland did, but that still doesn't make it right. IMO, the minute you decide to commit a felony where the possible consequences are a gruesome death then it's on you. You deserve what you get. Yeah, I know, the legal community doesn't look at it that way; but that's why the legal community is full of litigious, self-righteous bastards who ain't worth the dirt they stand on. Meh on you.

[olevetonahill]

Dean, I fingered it out, That dude dint Kill those burglars , Them stupid bastiges committed Suicide.

[C&CDean]

Dean, I fingered it out, That dude dint Kill those burglars , Them stupid bastiges committed Suicide.

Purdy much Howie. Purdy much.

[olevetonahill]

Purdy much Howie. Purdy much.

:glee:

[FirstandGoal]

Ah. The whole gist of the deal.

All the back and forth over Murder 1 2 and 3, and the outright stupidity of saying "it's a death penalty case" really is nothing but a bunch of legal, reactionary mumbo jumbo.

When I was a punk and broke into houses I absolutely knew that getting shot 27 times in the face with an AR was a distinct and very real possibility. It's the chance you take if you're gonna do that kinda ****. Guess what? These dimwits chose the wrong house.

Oh don't get me wrong, dude will get his nuts cut bad - perhaps as bad as Ersland did, but that still doesn't make it right. IMO, the minute you decide to commit a felony where the possible consequences are a gruesome death then it's on you. You deserve what you get. Yeah, I know, the legal community doesn't look at it that way; but that's why the legal community is full of litigious, self-righteous bastards who ain't worth the dirt they stand on. Meh on you.

Agree.

Its not like the dude took his guns outside his house and started shooting up at a school, shopping mall, or movie theater.

He was in his house.
The people he shot broke into his house.

Sadly he will be prosecuted, but I for one am hoping his defense can prove he's bat **** crazy.

[Midtowner]

Yeah, I know, the legal community doesn't look at it that way; but that's why the legal community is full of litigious, self-righteous bastards who ain't worth the dirt they stand on. Meh on you.

The legal community and apparently, juries, which by definition cannot be part of the legal community, 'least round these parts, if you ask the Ersland jury.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Some of you need to check your facts. The sheriff has stated over and over that this guy was well within his right to discharge his weapon in defense of his home. There isn't any outrage over that. In fact, there isn't a lot of outrage over his shooting of the guy that I can tell. The outrage is that he not only shot them, but shot them multiple times well after the threat was over.

What he did to that girl was merciless and horrific. He not only shot her as she came down the stairs, he continued shooting. And as she was gasping for air, probably already dying, dragged her body across the floor, lay her next to her cousin, put the pistol under her chin, and blew her brains out. "A good clean finishing shot," he called it.

You are deranged sick ****ers if you are ok with that.

This isn't a 12 year old girl scared out of her mind hiding in the bathroom with an adult male intruder bearing down on her. This isn't a widowed teen mom protecting herself and her little baby from two deranged thugs whom she was begging not to come into her home so she didn't have to shoot them, all while on the phone with the authorities at 911. I'd even argue this wasn't even Ersland defending his business and his life from two armed thugs clearly committing a felony against his person.

What if these were two knuckle-headed teens just pulling a prank or following through on some ill-conceived "double dare you". They deserved to DIE for that? If you really believe that, God have mercy on your souls.

Here. Take a good look. Here are the senior pictures from just this last year of your hardened criminals that were posing a threat to this guy in broad daylight where there is no way they could have been mistaken for anything other than a couple of young, unarmed, albeit stupid, teens. BTW she was a high school gymnast, all of about 5 foot nothing:

http://kmsp.images.worldnow.com/images/20175795_BG2.jpg

You all ought to take a swim on the other side. My lucky family has the fortune of "celebrating" tomorrow the 3rd anniversary of the murder of my wife's dad. He was swapping war stories and a few drinks with a Viet Nam buddy when they got into an argument. The result of the argument was that my wife's dad was stabbed over 37 times in the upper third of his torso, tied up to a work bench in the garage, then was decapitated with a log splitter by his "best friend". The best friend then claimed self-defense, that my wife's dad assaulted him. And then claimed not guilty by reason of mental defect, which was in fact plead out due to Viet Nam induced PTSD. Now he gets to petition annually for release. Meanwhile we're headed to Fort Snelling tomorrow to place flowers on my wife's daddy's memorial.

So screw every last one of you that thinks this guy was "within his rights". He was well beyond the boundries of self-defense, or any modicum of human decency.

I'm a pretty hard core crime and punishment guy, but I am really disappointed in the reaction some of you are taking. It is disgusting. **** you.

[olevetonahill]

Now YOU gettin weird.

[Breadburner]

O they were cute...So they weren't criminals....Bull****....!!!!

[olevetonahill]

O they were cute...So they weren't criminals....Bull****....!!!!

yea this kid was just a clean cut student also
http://www.fengshuitoday.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Dylan_Klebold.jpg

[achiro]

Some of you need to check your facts. The sheriff has stated over and over that this guy was well within his right to discharge his weapon in defense of his home. There isn't any outrage over that. In fact, there isn't a lot of outrage over his shooting of the guy that I can tell. The outrage is that he not only shot them, but shot them multiple times well after the threat was over.

What he did to that girl was merciless and horrific. He not only shot her as she came down the stairs, he continued shooting. And as she was gasping for air, probably already dying, dragged her body across the floor, lay her next to her cousin, put the pistol under her chin, and blew her brains out. "A good clean finishing shot," he called it.

You are deranged sick ****ers if you are ok with that.

This isn't a 12 year old girl scared out of her mind hiding in the bathroom with an adult male intruder bearing down on her. This isn't a widowed teen mom protecting herself and her little baby from two deranged thugs whom she was begging not to come into her home so she didn't have to shoot them, all while on the phone with the authorities at 911. I'd even argue this wasn't even Ersland defending his business and his life from two armed thugs clearly committing a felony against his person.

What if these were two knuckle-headed teens just pulling a prank or following through on some ill-conceived "double dare you". They deserved to DIE for that? If you really believe that, God have mercy on your souls.

Here. Take a good look. Here are the senior pictures from just this last year of your hardened criminals that were posing a threat to this guy in broad daylight where there is no way they could have been mistaken for anything other than a couple of young, unarmed, albeit stupid, teens. BTW she was a high school gymnast, all of about 5 foot nothing:

http://kmsp.images.worldnow.com/images/20175795_BG2.jpg

You all ought to take a swim on the other side. My lucky family has the fortune of "celebrating" tomorrow the 3rd anniversary of the murder of my wife's dad. He was swapping war stories and a few drinks with a Viet Nam buddy when they got into an argument. The result of the argument was that my wife's dad was stabbed over 37 times in the upper third of his torso, tied up to a work bench in the garage, then was decapitated with a log splitter by his "best friend". The best friend then claimed self-defense, that my wife's dad assaulted him. And then claimed not guilty by reason of mental defect, which was in fact plead out due to Viet Nam induced PTSD. Now he gets to petition annually for release. Meanwhile we're headed to Fort Snelling tomorrow to place flowers on my wife's daddy's memorial.

So screw every last one of you that thinks this guy was "within his rights". He was well beyond the boundries of self-defense, or any modicum of human decency.

I'm a pretty hard core crime and punishment guy, but I am really disappointed in the reaction some of you are taking. It is disgusting. **** you.
The only thing I'm going to say in slight disagreement to your post is that if he had been a better shot or bigger gun they would have been just as dead with one shot and few people would be arguing. I don't agree with what he did but think about it from a different angle, if it had been two men grabbing his daughter I think most poeple would have been all, "good for him, and " bastages got what they deserved". Who knows what his mind set was about his belongings after being robbed 8 times before.
Anyway, I heard a lawyer talking about MN laws yesterday on the news, he claimed that their law says you can use deadly force on anyone that enters the home. No language at all in the statute about fear for ones life or immanent danger type stuff, just that you can kill them if they break into your house.

[yermom]

if that's true, you can bet it's going to change...

[XingTheRubicon]

thieves die...tough ****.

[StoopTroup]

Some of you need to check your facts. The sheriff has stated over and over that this guy was well within his right to discharge his weapon in defense of his home. There isn't any outrage over that. In fact, there isn't a lot of outrage over his shooting of the guy that I can tell. The outrage is that he not only shot them, but shot them multiple times well after the threat was over.

What he did to that girl was merciless and horrific. He not only shot her as she came down the stairs, he continued shooting. And as she was gasping for air, probably already dying, dragged her body across the floor, lay her next to her cousin, put the pistol under her chin, and blew her brains out. "A good clean finishing shot," he called it.

You are deranged sick ****ers if you are ok with that.

This isn't a 12 year old girl scared out of her mind hiding in the bathroom with an adult male intruder bearing down on her. This isn't a widowed teen mom protecting herself and her little baby from two deranged thugs whom she was begging not to come into her home so she didn't have to shoot them, all while on the phone with the authorities at 911. I'd even argue this wasn't even Ersland defending his business and his life from two armed thugs clearly committing a felony against his person.

What if these were two knuckle-headed teens just pulling a prank or following through on some ill-conceived "double dare you". They deserved to DIE for that? If you really believe that, God have mercy on your souls.

Here. Take a good look. Here are the senior pictures from just this last year of your hardened criminals that were posing a threat to this guy in broad daylight where there is no way they could have been mistaken for anything other than a couple of young, unarmed, albeit stupid, teens. BTW she was a high school gymnast, all of about 5 foot nothing:

http://kmsp.images.worldnow.com/images/20175795_BG2.jpg

You all ought to take a swim on the other side. My lucky family has the fortune of "celebrating" tomorrow the 3rd anniversary of the murder of my wife's dad. He was swapping war stories and a few drinks with a Viet Nam buddy when they got into an argument. The result of the argument was that my wife's dad was stabbed over 37 times in the upper third of his torso, tied up to a work bench in the garage, then was decapitated with a log splitter by his "best friend". The best friend then claimed self-defense, that my wife's dad assaulted him. And then claimed not guilty by reason of mental defect, which was in fact plead out due to Viet Nam induced PTSD. Now he gets to petition annually for release. Meanwhile we're headed to Fort Snelling tomorrow to place flowers on my wife's daddy's memorial.

So screw every last one of you that thinks this guy was "within his rights". He was well beyond the boundries of self-defense, or any modicum of human decency.

I'm a pretty hard core crime and punishment guy, but I am really disappointed in the reaction some of you are taking. It is disgusting. **** you.

Sorry about your loss. It's to bad we don't have an answer to every awful situation that happens. I do hope we continue to find better ways to help the folks who suffer from these very horrible endings to people's lives.

We need Self Defense but we also need Human Decency. Finding the perfect answer to every hard core crime has always been very difficult. There are many of us who wish things had been different for you and your Family and anyone else who was affected.

We all react differently to these situations and sometimes some of us make light of it just so we can deal with close calls we have seen or been a part of in our own lives.

It is sad these kids put themselves and others in harms way. It's sad the Home Owner felt he needed to be Judge, Jury and executioner too. I hope some folks learn something from this.

[8timechamps]

Sorry about your loss. It's to bad we don't have an answer to every awful situation that happens. I do hope we continue to find better ways to help the folks who suffer from these very horrible endings to people's lives.

We need Self Defense but we also need Human Decency. Finding the perfect answer to every hard core crime has always been very difficult. There are many of us who wish things had been different for you and your Family and anyone else who was affected.

We all react differently to these situations and sometimes some of us make light of it just so we can deal with close calls we have seen or been a part of in our own lives.

It is sad these kids put themselves and others in harms way. It's sad the Home Owner felt he needed to be Judge, Jury and executioner too. I hope some folks learn something from this.

Yep. No two situations are identical, and while this guy seemingly went over the top, the whole thing is a tragedy.

So many "what ifs" in this one.

[BigTip]

"Why did you shoot that man six times?"
"Because when I pulled the trigger the seventh time it just went click."

[KantoSooner]

Whatever you think of the law in this case, this guy is pretty clearly unstable to the point that he should be institutionalized for life. How anyone could conceive of a 'good clean kill shot' to a teenaged girl bleeding out on the basement floor and then that it was okay to wait a day or so before contacting police so as not to disturb their happy turkey day as being reasonable conduct is beyond me.
Strait jacket, 30 mikes of thorazene every 8 hours and feed him through a tube until he dies of old age. About the best he can hope for. At least he won't have access to his weapons in case there's a payment dispute with the paperboy or if the pizza guy mistakes the neighbor's address and comes to the, really, wrong house...

There's grabbiing at invisible butterflies insane. There's 'But I AM Napoleon' insane. And then there's this guy. Legal tests for sanity, especially M'Naughten, are badly dated. This dude may not be playing with more than 35-40 cards in his deck. Max.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Whatever you think of the law in this case, this guy is pretty clearly unstable to the point that he should be institutionalized for life. How anyone could conceive of a 'good clean kill shot' to a teenaged girl bleeding out on the basement floor and then that it was okay to wait a day or so before contacting police so as not to disturb their happy turkey day as being reasonable conduct is beyond me.
Strait jacket, 30 mikes of thorazene every 8 hours and feed him through a tube until he dies of old age. About the best he can hope for. At least he won't have access to his weapons in case there's a payment dispute with the paperboy or if the pizza guy mistakes the neighbor's address and comes to the, really, wrong house...

There's grabbiing at invisible butterflies insane. There's 'But I AM Napoleon' insane. And then there's this guy. Legal tests for sanity, especially M'Naughten, are badly dated. This dude may not be playing with more than 35-40 cards in his deck. Max.So, you are Judge, Jury and Executioner...gotit.

[C&CDean]

Some of you need to check your facts. The sheriff has stated over and over that this guy was well within his right to discharge his weapon in defense of his home. There isn't any outrage over that. In fact, there isn't a lot of outrage over his shooting of the guy that I can tell. The outrage is that he not only shot them, but shot them multiple times well after the threat was over.

What he did to that girl was merciless and horrific. He not only shot her as she came down the stairs, he continued shooting. And as she was gasping for air, probably already dying, dragged her body across the floor, lay her next to her cousin, put the pistol under her chin, and blew her brains out. "A good clean finishing shot," he called it.

You are deranged sick ****ers if you are ok with that.

This isn't a 12 year old girl scared out of her mind hiding in the bathroom with an adult male intruder bearing down on her. This isn't a widowed teen mom protecting herself and her little baby from two deranged thugs whom she was begging not to come into her home so she didn't have to shoot them, all while on the phone with the authorities at 911. I'd even argue this wasn't even Ersland defending his business and his life from two armed thugs clearly committing a felony against his person.

What if these were two knuckle-headed teens just pulling a prank or following through on some ill-conceived "double dare you". They deserved to DIE for that? If you really believe that, God have mercy on your souls.

Here. Take a good look. Here are the senior pictures from just this last year of your hardened criminals that were posing a threat to this guy in broad daylight where there is no way they could have been mistaken for anything other than a couple of young, unarmed, albeit stupid, teens. BTW she was a high school gymnast, all of about 5 foot nothing:

http://kmsp.images.worldnow.com/images/20175795_BG2.jpg

You all ought to take a swim on the other side. My lucky family has the fortune of "celebrating" tomorrow the 3rd anniversary of the murder of my wife's dad. He was swapping war stories and a few drinks with a Viet Nam buddy when they got into an argument. The result of the argument was that my wife's dad was stabbed over 37 times in the upper third of his torso, tied up to a work bench in the garage, then was decapitated with a log splitter by his "best friend". The best friend then claimed self-defense, that my wife's dad assaulted him. And then claimed not guilty by reason of mental defect, which was in fact plead out due to Viet Nam induced PTSD. Now he gets to petition annually for release. Meanwhile we're headed to Fort Snelling tomorrow to place flowers on my wife's daddy's memorial.

So screw every last one of you that thinks this guy was "within his rights". He was well beyond the boundries of self-defense, or any modicum of human decency.

I'm a pretty hard core crime and punishment guy, but I am really disappointed in the reaction some of you are taking. It is disgusting. **** you.

Richard, dude, deep breaths. Comparing what happened to Amy's dad with this deal isn't just apples and oranges, it's whorn and Sooner it's so far apart.

Here's the deal. A bunch of y'all are making judgements based on what the media is crapping out. I say let's wait until all the facts come in before we go all crazy here.

The facts we know are this: Dude has been broken into several times. Dude has had guns stolen. People break into dude's house. He's hiding in the basement and the first perp comes down and gets shot all to hell. Stupid chick hears gunfire and I'm sure some screaming and yelling and crap and then she chooses to come down the stairs too. She gets shot all to hell, and then dude puts her out of her misery.

Those are the facts we know. I think. And like many have said, BOTTOM LINE, if they hadn't of broken in, none of this would have happened. Yeah, it went way over the top but you don't break the law, you don't have the problem.

[Midtowner]

and then dude puts her out of her misery.

Ignore every other fact, unless there's some valid defense to this, he's guilty of murder.

[C&CDean]

Ignore every other fact, unless there's some valid defense to this, he's guilty of murder.

You're a lefty. You believe in euthanasia, no? If he shot her as many times as what's being reported then it's pretty much euthanasia.

If he lets her lay there and waits a while for her to die then it's not murder? I'd call that worse than putting her out of her misery.

[pphilfran]

You're a lefty. You believe in euthanasia, no? If he shot her as many times as what's being reported then it's pretty much euthanasia.

If he lets her lay there and waits a while for her to die then it's not murder? I'd call that worse than putting her out of her misery.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say if he had not shot her fatally and failed to call the authorities until a day or two later (which he did) and then she died due to lack of medical attention he would still be up **** creek...

He could have called the cops immediately after the initial shooting and he would be home free...

His problem is that he had already neutralized the threat and then decided that her being neutralized was not enough so he did the "clean kill"....

He is going to prison...

[olevetonahill]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say if he had not shot her fatally and failed to call the authorities until a day or two later (which he did) and then she died due to lack of medical attention he would still be up **** creek...

He could have called the cops immediately after the initial shooting and he would be home free...

His problem is that he had already neutralized the threat and then decided that her being neutralized was not enough so he did the "clean kill"....

He is going to prison...

No doubt, But the fact remains those kids would still be alive and uninjured had they NOT broke into the dudes shack , Nuff said

[pphilfran]

No doubt, But the fact remains those kids would still be alive and uninjured had they NOT broke into the dudes shack , Nuff said

I don't disagree...

But if he had called the cops immediately after the shooting and not done the kill shot he would be a free man...both parties ****ed up... Nuff said...

[olevetonahill]

I don't disagree...

But if he had called the cops immediately after the shooting and not done the kill shot he would be a free man...both parties ****ed up... Nuff said...

Yup.

[KantoSooner]

So, you are Judge, Jury and Executioner...gotit.

I feel pretty comfy saying that dragging the body of a person I just shot across the floor and then delivering a coup d'grace and then heading upstairs for turkey and gravy and a bit of teevee until waking up the next day and, Ooops! remembering to call the cops about the multiple bodies in the basement is pretty much slam dunk nutsville.
Yep.

[olevetonahill]

I feel pretty comfy saying that dragging the body of a person I just shot across the floor and then delivering a coup d'grace and then heading upstairs for turkey and gravy and a bit of teevee until waking up the next day and, Ooops! remembering to call the cops about the multiple bodies in the basement is pretty much slam dunk nutsville.
Yep.


Well when ya put it like that. :very_drunk:

[Midtowner]

You're a lefty. You believe in euthanasia, no? If he shot her as many times as what's being reported then it's pretty much euthanasia.

If he lets her lay there and waits a while for her to die then it's not murder? I'd call that worse than putting her out of her misery.

After you have ended the threat, any steps you take to hasten death will be criminal. Even if you consider it humane--and at least from what we've read so far, this fella didn't have a thought in his head about being humane.

If you're trying to compare this to Dr. assisted suicide, that's a pretty ridiculous stretch.

Here's an example of a physician assisted suicide law:


Under the law, a capable adult Oregon resident who has been diagnosed, by a physician, with a terminal illness that will kill the patient within six months may request in writing, from his or her physician, a prescription for a lethal dose of medication for the purpose of ending the patient's life. Exercise of the option under this law is voluntary and the patient must initiate the request. Any physician, pharmacist or healthcare provider who has moral objections may refuse to participate.
The request must be confirmed by two witnesses, at least one of whom is not related to the patient, is not entitled to any portion of the patient's estate, is not the patient's physician, and is not employed by a health care facility caring for the patient. After the request is made, another physician must examine the patient's medical records and confirm the diagnosis. The patient must be determined to be free of a mental condition impairing judgment. If the request is authorized, the patient must wait at least fifteen days and make a second oral request before the prescription may be written. The patient has a right to rescind the request at any time. Should either physician have concerns about the patient's ability to make an informed decision, or feel the patient's request may be motivated by depression or coercion, the patient must be referred for a psychological evaluation.
The law protects doctors from liability for providing a lethal prescription for a terminally ill, competent adult in compliance with the statute's restrictions. Participation by physicians, pharmacists, and health care providers is voluntary. The law also specifies a patient's decision to end his or her life shall not "have an effect upon a life, health, or accident insurance or annuity policy."

It ain't the same, the two aren't comparable.

[FirstandGoal]

Richard, dude, deep breaths. Comparing what happened to Amy's dad with this deal isn't just apples and oranges, it's whorn and Sooner it's so far apart.

Here's the deal. A bunch of y'all are making judgements based on what the media is crapping out. I say let's wait until all the facts come in before we go all crazy here.

The facts we know are this: Dude has been broken into several times. Dude has had guns stolen. People break into dude's house. He's hiding in the basement and the first perp comes down and gets shot all to hell. Stupid chick hears gunfire and I'm sure some screaming and yelling and crap and then she chooses to come down the stairs too. She gets shot all to hell, and then dude puts her out of her misery.

Those are the facts we know. I think. And like many have said, BOTTOM LINE, if they hadn't of broken in, none of this would have happened. Yeah, it went way over the top but you don't break the law, you don't have the problem.



Just because the kids "look innocent" doesn't change the fact that they broke into his house. A house that he was in and minding his own business in. This guy didn't go to the mall and start shooting people. This guy didn't go to the theater and start shooting people. He also didn't go to a school and start shooting people. Ditto for his workplace.

He.Was.In.His.House.Minding.His.Own.Business.

As far as he knew, they could have both been armed and extremely dangerous. Hell, it doesn't matter how young and "innocent" or pretty these guys are. If a 90 pound little skinny girl shoots you, you're just as dead as if some big gnarly dude did it.

Is he bat **** crazy? No doubt.

Honestly, the bottom line for me is Homeowner 2, Criminals 0.

[Midtowner]

One was dead, the other he was dragging around while she was gasping for breath. How could you possibly think she was extremely dangerous? No one has ever used the word "innocent" to describe a couple of burglars. That said, burglary doesn't carry the death penalty and summary execution 'just 'cuz isn't authorized in any state.

Some of you folks are just plain nuts. You shouldn't be allowed within 10 feet of a firearm if this sort of behavior is something you approve of. Having guns is a huge responsibility. If you're so cavalier about taking another person's life, you are not only a threat to yourself and others, but a threat to the gun rights everyone else enjoy.

Guns are for self defense and sport. Period. Revenge and punishing the wicked are not on the list of things you are allowed to do with them.

[C&CDean]

One was dead, the other he was dragging around while she was gasping for breath. How could you possibly think she was extremely dangerous? No one has ever used the word "innocent" to describe a couple of burglars. That said, burglary doesn't carry the death penalty and summary execution 'just 'cuz isn't authorized in any state.

Some of you folks are just plain nuts. You shouldn't be allowed within 10 feet of a firearm if this sort of behavior is something you approve of. Having guns is a huge responsibility. If you're so cavalier about taking another person's life, you are not only a threat to yourself and others, but a threat to the gun rights everyone else enjoy.

Guns are for self defense and sport. Period. Revenge and punishing the wicked are not on the list of things you are allowed to do with them.

Spare us the faux drama. Sheez.

You sit here pontificating; bandying about your version of the "facts" like you were there. You say he was "dragging her around while she was gasping for breath" and then he went and ate his turkey while watching the tube and then suddenly remembered the next day he had a couple stiffs downstairs, etc., etc., etc.

The reality is that you don't know dick about it, about the shooter, or anything else in this case other than what's been reported - most of which having been sensationalized for folks like you. You act like you're deep inside this guy's brain and know what makes him tick. Again, you don't know dick.

Guy is going to jail. My position is that he shouldn't. He was in his own ****ing home. End of story. If the kids didn't wanna die, they should have stayed out of his ****ing house.

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

[olevetonahill]

Spare us the faux drama. Sheez.

You sit here pontificating; bandying about your version of the "facts" like you were there. You say he was "dragging her around while she was gasping for breath" and then he went and ate his turkey while watching the tube and then suddenly remembered the next day he had a couple stiffs downstairs, etc., etc., etc.

The reality is that you don't know dick about it, about the shooter, or anything else in this case other than what's been reported - most of which having been sensationalized for folks like you. You act like you're deep inside this guy's brain and know what makes him tick. Again, you don't know dick.

Guy is going to jail. My position is that he shouldn't. He was in his own ****ing home. End of story. If the kids didn't wanna die, they should have stayed out of his ****ing house.

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

Cause they lack Common sense?

[Curly Bill]

Ding, ding, ding! Winner!

[Midtowner]

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

Because it's wrong, because you're advocating for murder and because you don't get to kill someone only because they're in your house. They actually have to pose a threat to you or someone or anything.

[achiro]

Because it's wrong, because you're advocating for murder and because you don't get to kill someone only because they're in your house. They actually have to pose a threat to you or someone or anything.

Not according to MN law according to what the lawyer I mentioned before had said.

[Midtowner]

Here's the statute. You tell me how it authorizes summary execution after the crime has been prevented:


609.06 AUTHORIZED USE OF FORCE.
Subdivision 1.When authorized. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 2, reasonable force may be used upon or toward the person of another without the other's consent when the following circumstances exist or the actor reasonably believes them to exist:
(1) when used by a public officer or one assisting a public officer under the public officer's direction:
(a) in effecting a lawful arrest; or
(b) in the execution of legal process; or
(c) in enforcing an order of the court; or
(d) in executing any other duty imposed upon the public officer by law; or
(2) when used by a person not a public officer in arresting another in the cases and in the manner provided by law and delivering the other to an officer competent to receive the other into custody; or
(3) when used by any person in resisting or aiding another to resist an offense against the person; or
(4) when used by any person in lawful possession of real or personal property, or by another assisting the person in lawful possession, in resisting a trespass upon or other unlawful interference with such property; or
(5) when used by any person to prevent the escape, or to retake following the escape, of a person lawfully held on a charge or conviction of a crime; or
(6) when used by a parent, guardian, teacher, or other lawful custodian of a child or pupil, in the exercise of lawful authority, to restrain or correct such child or pupil; or
(7) when used by a school employee or school bus driver, in the exercise of lawful authority, to restrain a child or pupil, or to prevent bodily harm or death to another; or
(8) when used by a common carrier in expelling a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful requirement for the conduct of passengers and reasonable care is exercised with regard to the passenger's personal safety; or
(9) when used to restrain a person who is mentally ill or mentally defective from self-injury or injury to another or when used by one with authority to do so to compel compliance with reasonable requirements for the person's control, conduct, or treatment; or
(10) when used by a public or private institution providing custody or treatment against one lawfully committed to it to compel compliance with reasonable requirements for the control, conduct, or treatment of the committed person.
Subd. 2.Deadly force used against peace officers. Deadly force may not be used against peace officers who have announced their presence and are performing official duties at a location where a person is committing a crime or an act that would be a crime if committed by an adult.

and



609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

It appears your lawyer friend is greatly mistaken. He should also probably let the Judge and prosecuting attorney know they're wrong for filing criminal charges in this case because it's a-ok to execute someone after they no longer pose a threat.

[C&CDean]

Because it's wrong, because you're advocating for murder and because you don't get to kill someone only because they're in your house. They actually have to pose a threat to you or someone or anything.

-sigh- Wrong again. It's WRONG to break into someone's house. And if you think they weren't posing a threat then perhaps you're the crazy one?

[Midtowner]

-sigh- Wrong again. It's WRONG to break into someone's house. And if you think they weren't posing a threat then perhaps you're the crazy one?

The first shots were justified.

The "kill shot" which he has confessed to (so don't say I don't have the facts, his confession is all I need) is murder. How does a shot up 18 year old girl gasping for air and being dragged around by a shooter still appear to be in the commission of an offense leading the actor to reasonably believe that he was at exposed to a risk of great bodily harm or death?

You may have this belief that you can just execute someone for ****s and giggles after they break into your house and you've already stopped them, but that and about $40,000-$100,000 in attorney fees can buy you a murder conviction.

[pphilfran]

-sigh- Wrong again. It's WRONG to break into someone's house. And if you think they weren't posing a threat then perhaps you're the crazy one?

How much of a threat was the girl that was bleeding out while he dragged her across the floor?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You know...the guys problem was that he didn't take out the girl first thing. Man, you defend yourself, make sure you got kill shots...and don't brag about using more bullets than needed...You were scared for your life, you didn't know what they had, it looked like a gun, they were in the house univited and you defended yourself. Then shut up.

[olevetonahill]

I think Most all of us will agree that the guy at 1st was well with in his rights , The thing is he went too far thats obvious .
But the Main point I have been tryin to say is NONE OF THIS would have happened IF they had stayed the **** out the dudes shack.
They paid the ultimate price for breaking into the dudes shack, Now he is going to pay the price for His actions End of story.

[Wishboned]

I think Most all of us will agree that the guy at 1st was well with in his rights , The thing is he went too far thats obvious .
But the Main point I have been tryin to say is NONE OF THIS would have happened IF they had stayed the **** out the dudes shack.
They paid the ultimate price for breaking into the dudes shack, Now he is going to pay the price for His actions End of story.

I think that pretty much sums it all up.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Can someone please explain ('splain) to me how or why all these kid perps who get into really bad trouble or are killed are always "good kids" or "honor" students???

Uhhh, no they ain't, if they were, they wouldn't be doing this stuff...

[Midtowner]

Read a bit more on this one today. Apparently, the shooter shot the boy first and while he was on the ground shot him again at close range. He told police he fired that second shot because he "wanted him dead." That's pretty solid evidence. Some might call it a confession.

[Wishboned]

Can someone please explain ('splain) to me how or why all these kid perps who get into really bad trouble or are killed are always "good kids" or "honor" students???

Uhhh, no they ain't, if they were, they wouldn't be doing this stuff...

When I was a wayward youth most people would have told you I was a good kid.

The truth is I just never got caught.

[KantoSooner]

As much as anything, I would guess that the journo writing the story is trying to make the point that you can't tell by looking which kids might get up to this stuff.

Kind of the same way people love to note that the pregnant high school girl or the drug dealer were children of the pastor.

Everybody, supposedly, loves to see a downfall. Almost as much as we love to see criminals become men-of-Gawd and the like. It's a bit of sensationalism.

(mind you that the missionary daughters in my high school really were the sure thing dates.)

[C&CDean]

How much of a threat was the girl that was bleeding out while he dragged her across the floor?

Threat schmeat. It ain't the point. They were in his house man. His house. That's the bottom line. I know it's not the bottom line LEGALLY, but morally and every other way you slice it it's the bottom line.

This guy screwed the pooch by yapping his mouth off. He's for sure going down. Would I have done the same thing in his shoes? Who knows? I'd like to think I could have killed them both with a single shot per perp. But when you're scared, your hands are shaking, you start yanking the trigger...who the **** knows?

I do have to laugh at all those on here who think people like this guy and Ersland "should have exercised better judgement and perceived exactly when the threat was over." Anybody who's ever been shot at, or is shooting at knows you pretty much ain't thinking at that point. You're surviving.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

When I was a wayward youth most people would have told you I was a good kid.

The truth is I just never got caught.

I never did anything really bad, becuase I know I would have gotten caught... ;)

But I am refering to kids probably doing felonious things and then being described as an "honor" student...

[OU68]

Threat schmeat. It ain't the point. They were in his house man. His house. That's the bottom line. I know it's not the bottom line LEGALLY, but morally and every other way you slice it it's the bottom line.

This guy screwed the pooch by yapping his mouth off. He's for sure going down. Would I have done the same thing in his shoes? Who knows? I'd like to think I could have killed them both with a single shot per perp. But when you're scared, your hands are shaking, you start yanking the trigger...who the **** knows?

I do have to laugh at all those on here who think people like this guy and Ersland "should have exercised better judgement and perceived exactly when the threat was over." Anybody who's ever been shot at, or is shooting at knows you pretty much ain't thinking at that point. You're surviving.

^^^^^THIS
The guy that taught my CCL class was swat - he was in a shooting and when they asked him how many shots he fired his response was "several"!

[pphilfran]

Threat schmeat. It ain't the point. They were in his house man. His house. That's the bottom line. I know it's not the bottom line LEGALLY, but morally and every other way you slice it it's the bottom line.

This guy screwed the pooch by yapping his mouth off. He's for sure going down. Would I have done the same thing in his shoes? Who knows? I'd like to think I could have killed them both with a single shot per perp. But when you're scared, your hands are shaking, you start yanking the trigger...who the **** knows?

I do have to laugh at all those on here who think people like this guy and Ersland "should have exercised better judgement and perceived exactly when the threat was over." Anybody who's ever been shot at, or is shooting at knows you pretty much ain't thinking at that point. You're surviving.

You fill the sob with slugs when he/she was walking down the stairs...you don't finish them off as they lay on the floor after you moved their non threatening body...

The girl laying at his feet is no longer a threat...and you will have your *** thrown in jail if you take that last kill shot and then brag about it during questioning...

[C&CDean]

You fill the sob with slugs when he/she was walking down the stairs...you don't finish them off as they lay on the floor after you moved their non threatening body...

The girl laying at his feet is no longer a threat...and you will have your *** thrown in jail if you take that last kill shot and then brag about it during questioning...

Agreed. Dumbass should have just STFU and lawyered up.

[pphilfran]

Agreed. Dumbass should have just STFU and lawyered up.

That is exactly right...

[olevetonahill]

Agreed. Dumbass should have just STFU and lawyered up.

He had the right to remain silent, He obviously didnt have enough ****in sense to do so

[Midtowner]

Agreed. Dumbass should have just STFU and lawyered up.

The physical evidence would have probably done him in anyway. It'd be pretty easy to tell that the "kill shot" on the girl was up close and personal and that she had been dragged. The boy would have taken on shot from mid range, but the next shot was really close up, so that would have looked pretty suspicious as well. His confession does him in, but here's a protip, don't kill someone at point blank range after you've already shot them. The police lab will figure that out quick and your *** is in the pokey.

Here's an even better protip: guns are for defense ONLY. Using it as an offensive weapon against someone who is not a threat is always illegal.

[Breadburner]

People usually create their own misery.....

[achiro]

Here's the statute. You tell me how it authorizes summary execution after the crime has been prevented:



and



It appears your lawyer friend is greatly mistaken. He should also probably let the Judge and prosecuting attorney know they're wrong for filing criminal charges in this case because it's a-ok to execute someone after they no longer pose a threat.
I like how you highlighted the sentence before the one that matters. I'm not a lawyer but I would think the word OR between what you highlighted and the last sentence means something. So I'm highlighting my own sentence.

609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

[Midtowner]

I like how you highlighted the sentence before the one that matters. I'm not a lawyer but I would think the word OR between what you highlighted and the last sentence means something. So I'm highlighting my own sentence.

And how does shooting two teenagers who are shot and on the ground going to prevent the commission of a felony? Is it a felony to bleed on someone's floor?

I didn't highlight it because it wasn't relevant. Let the professionals stick to the statutory interpretation there sparky.

The first shots were fine. The kill shots were murder.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The kill shots were murder.No they weren't.

[olevetonahill]

No they weren't.

Dont you know to not ever argue with Mid? he Knows everything and he will not rest until he has made dayum sure that all of us ignorant slow witted hillbillies understand it

[Midtowner]

No they weren't.

Want to put $100 where your mouth is big boy? I'll bet that the accused is convicted of murder, you can bet otherwise. PM me for details.

[cleller]

Well, that town has two fewer burglars, and one less nutty neighbor.

[olevetonahill]

Well, that town has two fewer burglars, and one less nutty neighbor.

Heh

Hey Mid why you want to put yer money on STEPs scrotum?

[FirstandGoal]

I think Most all of us will agree that the guy at 1st was well with in his rights , The thing is he went too far thats obvious .
But the Main point I have been tryin to say is NONE OF THIS would have happened IF they had stayed the **** out the dudes shack.
They paid the ultimate price for breaking into the dudes shack, Now he is going to pay the price for His actions End of story.

GREAT summary.

Seriously though, as much sense as this makes, there will be those who yet again fail to understand simple logic.

[FirstandGoal]

Want to put $100 where your mouth is big boy? I'll bet that the accused is convicted of murder, you can bet otherwise. PM me for details.

Okay, so the point isn't that we don't think he won't be prosecuted. The argument is that if he would have just kept his mouth closed he would have had a much better chance at not going to jail for a very long time.


I'm very lucky because I've never in my life been in a situation where I've had someone point a gun at me and threaten my life so I have no idea how I would react. I have however, had the misfortune to be a victim of a mugging about 20 years ago. To this day I can't recall many details of the situation-- it all happened so fast-- but I do vividly remember throwing my shoe at the perp's car and then trying to chase after it. All of this was after they tried to drag me into their waiting car and then when I fought back they just grabbed my purse instead.

Now, then sensible response probably should have been for me to go inside the store and call 911, but at that moment in time I was so pissed off that I wanted to put some serious hurt on those mother****ers. There's just no way to tell how you will react in the heat of the moment and if ole crazy man would have just kept his mouth shut this story would be a lot different.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Heh

Hey Mid why you want to put yer money on STEPs scrotum?I see what ya did there but it's not possible. My mouth is too small.

[olevetonahill]

I see what ya did there but it's not possible. My mouth is too small.

:very_drunk:

[Midtowner]

Okay, so the point isn't that we don't think he won't be prosecuted. The argument is that if he would have just kept his mouth closed he would have had a much better chance at not going to jail for a very long time.

The physical evidence would have shown that he dragged the girl and then put a bullet up through her head from under her chin at point blank range. That's enough right there to convict even if he lawyered up.

The lesson here is that if you are a gun owner, you have to be responsible when you have the power of life and death in your hands. You don't get to kill people because you are mad. If you don't believe you can control your reaction to a stressful event, you shouldn't have guns. It's that simple.

[olevetonahill]

The physical evidence would have shown that he dragged the girl and then put a bullet up through her head from under her chin at point blank range. That's enough right there to convict even if he lawyered up.

The lesson here is that if you are a gun owner, you have to be responsible when you have the power of life and death in your hands. You don't get to kill people because you are mad. If you don't believe you can control your reaction to a stressful event, you shouldn't have guns. It's that simple.

Yer a piece of work aint ya.

[C&CDean]

The physical evidence would have shown that he dragged the girl and then put a bullet up through her head from under her chin at point blank range. That's enough right there to convict even if he lawyered up.

The lesson here is that if you are a gun owner, you have to be responsible when you have the power of life and death in your hands. You don't get to kill people because you are mad. If you don't believe you can control your reaction to a stressful event, you shouldn't have guns. It's that simple.

Only if they can prove the "kill shot" happened while she was still alive. Slippery slope. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Midtowner]

Only if they can prove the "kill shot" happened while she was still alive. Slippery slope. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

That's easy to prove forensically. Again, you don't need a confession to see whether the heart was still beating when someone was shot.

[olevetonahill]

That's easy to prove forensically. Again, you don't need a confession to see whether the heart was still beating when someone was shot.

So Now yer also
http://cdn-7.nflximg.com/images/8314/68314.jpg

[nutinbutdust]

One thing I hadn't seen mentioned here. Authorities found evidence in the teen's car fron another burglary. They had stolen prescription drugs in their car. I don't think they are dealing with teenagers acting on a dare here. You can read about it here.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/11/28/police-teens-shot-in-little-falls-had-stolen-items-in-car/

With that said Byron David Smith should hav skipped the coup de grace and should learn how to give a statement to the police. All he should have said was: "Fearing for my life I fired my weapon in their general direction. I need to see an attorney."

[Turd_Ferguson]

Hey Quincy...who is to say your so called murder shot wasn't from a close up struggle?

[FirstandGoal]

Hey Quincy...who is to say your so called murder shot wasn't from a close up struggle?


Shhhh... stop using logic, he doesn't understand it.

[Midtowner]

Hey Quincy...who is to say your so called murder shot wasn't from a close up struggle?

The confession would point to the possibility that it was murder.

[olevetonahill]

The confession would point to the possibility that it was murder.

hey Matlock, Ya said ya dint need the confession that Forensics would prove it :highly_amused:

[Breadburner]

More like Barney ****in Fife....!....

[olevetonahill]

More like Barney ****in Fife....!....

To Us yes. To himself hes Quincy and Matlock rolled into one .

[Midtowner]

No one has taken me up on my offer. Should be an easy $100, right?

[FirstandGoal]

No one has taken me up on my offer. Should be an easy $100, right?


What offer would that be?

You mean the one where you claim that the cops are gonna try to prove that the kids would have both survived with their initial wounds without the "kill shots?"

Like Dean says, that will be dicey at best.

[misplaced_sooner]

Sounds like a couple of punk *** kids got what they deserved. Obviously this guy was on edge, his home had been broken into before. His stuff stolen and the law failing to catch the offenders. I know had it been my family, I'd have pulled the trigger until it went click. In today's economy, the law enforcement agencies are strapped for cash and can't protect you.

I have some little ****ers doing vandailism around my neighborhood. I've got them on video, I just haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. Frozen paintballs sound like an easy fix. Lol

[Midtowner]

You mean the one where you claim that the cops are gonna try to prove that the kids would have both survived with their initial wounds without the "kill shots?"

If the actions of the Defendant only hastened death, then they were murder. Whether or not the kids would have survived absent the kill shots is totally irrelevant.

[C&CDean]

If the actions of the Defendant only hastened death, then they were murder. Whether or not the kids would have survived absent the kill shots is totally irrelevant.

Are you actually saying something? Anything?

That's what I thought.

[olevetonahill]

Are you actually saying something? Anything?

That's what I thought.

Typical lawyer Mumbo Jumbo

[Midtowner]

Are you actually saying something? Anything?

That's what I thought.

Explaining basic points FirstandGoal is apparently ignorant of.

And what exactly was the point of such a question?

[C&CDean]

Explaining basic points FirstandGoal is apparently ignorant of.

And what exactly was the point of such a question?

Dude. Rest.

First and Goal is a Potterhead. That, in and of itself makes her far superior to any POS who decided law school was the means to some POS end.

Hasten death? Please.

[olevetonahill]

Dude. Rest.

First and Goal is a Potterhead. That, in and of itself makes her far superior to any POS who decided law school was the means to some POS end.

Hasten death? Please.

I like how you Gurls er I mean Potterheads stick together

[Turd_Ferguson]

I hastened to the ****ter while ago...

[SCOUT]

Read a bit more on this one today. Apparently, the shooter shot the boy first and while he was on the ground shot him again at close range. He told police he fired that second shot because he "wanted him dead." That's pretty solid evidence. Some might call it a confession.

If I have a wounded intruder in my basement with another coming down the stairs...Yeah. I want the first intruder dead. They are much less of a threat that way.

I confess that I value my own life over that of people who are actively robbing me.

[GottaHavePride]

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone's arguing in here.

Yeah, dude was in his rights to defend himself.

However, the second he takes the time to move the body and finish a guy off rather than clearing himself a safe path out if the house to a safe place where he can call the cops... That's premeditated murder. Doesn't matter if you agree or not. That's how the laws are written, and I'm sure a lawyer type can dig up plenty of precedent.

Bottom line, if guy had popped the first intruder and then got out of the house and called the cops, he wouldn't even be news.

[SCOUT]

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone's arguing in here.

Yeah, dude was in his rights to defend himself.

However, the second he takes the time to move the body and finish a guy off rather than clearing himself a safe path out if the house to a safe place where he can call the cops... That's premeditated murder. Doesn't matter if you agree or not. That's how the laws are written, and I'm sure a lawyer type can dig up plenty of precedent.

Bottom line, if guy had popped the first intruder and then got out of the house and called the cops, he wouldn't even be news.

Isn't your home supposed to be that safe place?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He was well within his right to shoot both of their asses...but when he went about dragging one around and then seeing they were still alive and decided to pop them with a kill shot he went beyond his legal right...seems correct. hard to say who was goofier and/or stupider though, the perp for perping, or the shooter, who looks to have snapped, and gone over the top.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

... it's on you. You deserve what you get. Yeah, I know, the legal community doesn't look at it that way; but that's why the legal community is full of litigious, self-righteous bastards who ain't worth the dirt they stand on. Meh on you.Lawyers have earned their sleazy reputation. It's nice(slightly comforting) to know that not all of them are such jerks.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

People usually create their own misery.....Brevity wins out! hear hear!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Dont you know to not ever argue with Mid? he Knows everything and he will not rest until he has made dayum sure that all of us ignorant slow witted hillbillies understand itThe dude represents!

[olevetonahill]

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone's arguing in here.

Yeah, dude was in his rights to defend himself.

However, the second he takes the time to move the body and finish a guy off rather than clearing himself a safe path out if the house to a safe place where he can call the cops... That's premeditated murder. Doesn't matter if you agree or not. That's how the laws are written, and I'm sure a lawyer type can dig up plenty of precedent.

Bottom line, if guy had popped the first intruder and then got out of the house and called the cops, he wouldn't even be news.

No ones arguing cept Matlock/Quincy and that's just his nature.
I think every one agrees the dude went to far.
Now there may be some mitigatory factors that we dont know . But the surface says Yea the dude whacked out and went too far.

The thing M/Q aint grasping is the Fact that Those kids would still be alive and said whack job dude still enjoying his freedom had the Punkassed Kids just stayed the **** out of his shack

[Midtowner]

I'm sure a lawyer type can dig up plenty of precedent.

While it's not quite precedent (wrong state), the Ersland case is a good example of this concept. First shot to the head was 100% fine. The last five to the chest were not.

[KantoSooner]

For everyone out there who hates lawyers, keep in mind that we could change our system.

The Anglo/American common law/precedent/judge-made law system we have produces, by intent, a lot of the nit-picking that drives people crazy. We could opt for a civil law system, like France, and engage in much more debate over the intent of a given law if that would be preferable to arguing precedent.

Or we could simply empower me as Lord High Master of the Change. I'd be happy to be the utter dictator of all reality and would happily settle your little human squabbles for you. And there would be absolutely no prolonged discussion to worry about.

I promise.

[8timechamps]

According to Bob Costas, if the crazy old man didn't have a gun, the punks would still be alive. Costas has it all figured out!

I used to really like Bob.

[FirstandGoal]

According to Bob Costas, if the crazy old man didn't have a gun, the punks would still be alive. Costas has it all figured out!

I used to really like Bob.


LOL.

Here is the best logic of all:

If everybody would have stayed at their own houses, then nobody would have gotten shot and we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Too bad they didn't break into Voldemort's house. He woulda just Avadra Kedavara'd their asses and then the cops would STILL be trying to figure out how they died.

[Midtowner]

The thing M/Q aint grasping is the Fact that Those kids would still be alive and said whack job dude still enjoying his freedom had the Punkassed Kids just stayed the **** out of his shack

I grasp it. That doesn't change the fact that he admitted to murdering these kids and really doesn't have a good legal defense for it.

[pphilfran]

If they are in his house he should legally be able to set bear traps to catch em...then torture and sexually abuse them prior to giving them the kill shot...then eat Thanksgiving dinner before calling the police...

[olevetonahill]

If they are in his house he should legally be able to set bear traps to catch em...then torture and sexually abuse them prior to giving them the kill shot...then eat Thanksgiving dinner before calling the police...

I like yer thinkin.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

According to Bob Costas, if the crazy old man didn't have a gun, the punks would still be alive. Costas has it all figured out!

I used to really like Bob.
Costas is atool and a fool.

[Wishboned]

According to Bob Costas, if the crazy old man didn't have a gun, the punks would still be alive. Costas has it all figured out!

I used to really like Bob.



I hate to think of the damage OJ would have done to Nicole and Ron Goldman if only he'd had a gun.

[stoopified]

Moren likely, If he had stopped after wounding her and called the PoPo he would prolly be clear, But like Erskland (sp) He went that extra mile for the "Kill Shot"True,I believe in the right of sel-defense including deadly force BUT common sense has to enter the equation somewhere.