Walmart protests

[kevpks]

I know how most of the posters on the right feel about the Walmart protests, but what are your thoughts on the argument that the government is subsidizing Walmart. If Walmart keeps its wages (and more importantly hours) low for its employees and those employees qualify for food and housing assistance from the government, is Walmart in effect wasting our tax dollars to increase their profits? These aren't moochers we're talking about but working Americans. Granted many of them probably should have studied harder in school or worked to get more marketable skills. I agree that individuals are responsible for making a better life for themselves. However, these people are working. Many would love to be full time. Are there solutions to this problem? Is it a problem?


http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/23/news/companies/walmart-protests/

[LiveLaughLove]

I know how most of the posters on the right feel about the Walmart protests, but what are your thoughts on the argument that the government is subsidizing Walmart. If Walmart keeps its wages (and more importantly hours) low for its employees and those employees qualify for food and housing assistance from the government, is Walmart in effect wasting our tax dollars to increase their profits? These aren't moochers we're talking about but working Americans. Granted many of them probably should have studied harder in school or worked to get more marketable skills. I agree that individuals are responsible for making a better life for themselves. However, these people are working. Many would love to be full time. Are there solutions to this problem? Is it a problem?


http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/23/news/companies/walmart-protests/

So our current administration makes rules that punish a company (drive up expenses) for having full time employees. The company responds by saying ok, not very many full time employees then. And somehow that is the government subsidizing the company? Completely liberal logic.

You phrased it completely as if WalMart is simply gifted it's profits by the kindness of the government. The government giveth, the government taketh away.

I see WalMart as a company that can decide how it wants to operate within the confines of governmental interferences. People can then decide if they choose to work for them under those conditions. WalMart isn't being "subsidized". Our government chose to "subsidize" these people when it created this monstrosity. And we as a people said "cool".

WalMart has two ways it can go. 1. Keep their prices for goods as low as possible, which means curbing costs. or 2. Raise prices on the goods and keep the employees at full time and pay the extra costs through price increases.

WalMart and no other smart company is just going to take additional losses in the shorts just because Obama wants these mandates.

I read somewhere that the average family saves a little over $2000/ year because of the existence of WalMart. And that's even if they don't step foot in one. WalMart forces other companies to keep their prices lower also. If you actually use WalMart you save closer to $3000/year.

If they raise their prices, those families will be forced to pay more also. None of this happens in a vacuum.

That's my right wing take on it.

[kevpks]

Walmart was doing this long before Obama. It's not a response to any of his policies.

Walmart is just the most prominent example but I would think that if someone making minimum wage can qualify for food stamps, it's time to raise minimum wage. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for a company's workforce?

[LiveLaughLove]

Walmart was doing this long before Obama. It's not a response to any of his policies.

Walmart is just the most prominent example but I would think that if someone making minimum wage can qualify for food stamps, it's time to raise minimum wage. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for a company's workforce?

Yes I agree, what should minimum wage be? What amount would be fair and reasonable?

I've been wanting to have this discussion for a while now.

[SoonerorLater]

I know how most of the posters on the right feel about the Walmart protests, but what are your thoughts on the argument that the government is subsidizing Walmart. If Walmart keeps its wages (and more importantly hours) low for its employees and those employees qualify for food and housing assistance from the government, is Walmart in effect wasting our tax dollars to increase their profits? These aren't moochers we're talking about but working Americans. Granted many of them probably should have studied harder in school or worked to get more marketable skills. I agree that individuals are responsible for making a better life for themselves. However, these people are working. Many would love to be full time. Are there solutions to this problem? Is it a problem?


http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/23/news/companies/walmart-protests/


Walmart was doing this long before Obama. It's not a response to any of his policies.

Walmart is just the most prominent example but I would think that if someone making minimum wage can qualify for food stamps, it's time to raise minimum wage. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for a company's workforce?

Wal-Mart does this for one reason. They can get away with it. Like any large corporation their fiduciary duty is to maximize shareholder value. As a matter of fact if they didn't put shareholder interest first they would be setting themselves up for legal action.

The proper response in my opinion is to eliminate government subsidies. Without them Wal Mart would not be able to function in the manner they do. The government acts as an enabler for Wal Mart. Without government largess employees would out of necessity have to seek work elsewhere. Eventually Wal Mart would have to increase wages to retain employees. Even so there is a pretty low wage ceiling for unskilled retail workers. It was this way even before Wal Mart. Years ago the people that were retail clerks didn't make much money either. For the most part retail has always been part-time and second income type of jobs.

As for raising the minimum wage, it never works. It will result in more people losing their jobs and not increase the standard of living across the board. The minimum wage should be abolished and let the market dictate the value of any given job.

[Sooner5030]

This "problem" was created by intervention in the first place. Without SNAP & TANF maybe the market price for labor would be different. However, the Statists will use this to justify more intervention.

I've watched this feedback loop for the last 30 years.

[pphilfran]

JC Penney does the same thing....

[Midtowner]

So our current administration makes rules that punish a company (drive up expenses) for having full time employees. The company responds by saying ok, not very many full time employees then. And somehow that is the government subsidizing the company? Completely liberal logic.

You phrased it completely as if WalMart is simply gifted it's profits by the kindness of the government. The government giveth, the government taketh away.

You go around calling people names all of the time and you don't know the difference between its and it's. Pathetic.

At any rate, yes, this is government subsidization. Wally World even has classes for its employees to teach them how to apply for government benefits. Wal Mart is able to underpay (and keep) its employees because those employees are able to experience an acceptable lifestyle with taxpayer subsidization.

We need to punish large employers which have excessive numbers of part time employees.


If they raise their prices, those families will be forced to pay more also. None of this happens in a vacuum.

That's my right wing take on it.

CostCo somehow manages to stay competitive and treat their employees fairly at the same time.

[SoonerorLater]

You go around calling people names all of the time and you don't know the difference between its and it's. Pathetic.

At any rate, yes, this is government subsidization. Wally World even has classes for its employees to teach them how to apply for government benefits. Wal Mart is able to underpay (and keep) its employees because those employees are able to experience an acceptable lifestyle with taxpayer subsidization.

We need to punish large employers which have excessive numbers of part time employees.



CostCo somehow manages to stay competitive and treat their employees fairly at the same time.

"We need to punish large employers which have excessive numbers of part time employees"

I'll give you an A+ for temerity but no we don't. If enough people like yourself feel strongly enough then shop exclusively at Costco.

[Midtowner]

"We need to punish large employers which have excessive numbers of part time employees"

I'll give you an A+ for temerity but no we don't. If enough people like yourself feel strongly enough then shop exclusively at Costco.

Temerity?? Are the WalMart goons gonna come after me? I just don't like it when the laws basically require employers to eff over their employees and the taxpayers at the same time. Many on here seem to think that's 'merica though.

They haven't located in OKC or I would. FWIW, I haven't darkened the door of a Wal Mart in years. That said, we need to either adjust minimum wage to a point where the government doesn't subsidize cheap *** employers or place some sort of limitations on part time employee %'s or both. Likely both.

The notion that employers like Wally World would cut back on employees if this was to happen is absurd. If they could cut employees right now, they would.

[JohnnyMack]

They haven't located in OKC or I would. FWIW, I haven't darkened the door of a Wal Mart in years. That said, we need to either adjust minimum wage to a point where the government doesn't subsidize cheap *** employers or place some sort of limitations on part time employee %'s or both. Likely both.

The notion that employers like Wally World would cut back on employees if this was to happen is absurd. If they could cut employees right now, they would.

Isn't Costco one of a handful of retailers who won't move into OK due to our archaic, Jesus freak laws regarding alcohol?

[JohnnyMack]

They haven't located in OKC or I would. FWIW, I haven't darkened the door of a Wal Mart in years. That said, we need to either adjust minimum wage to a point where the government doesn't subsidize cheap *** employers or place some sort of limitations on part time employee %'s or both. Likely both.

The notion that employers like Wally World would cut back on employees if this was to happen is absurd. If they could cut employees right now, they would.

Isn't Costco one of a handful of retailers who won't move into OK due to our archaic, Jesus freak laws regarding alcohol?

[Midtowner]

Isn't Costco one of a handful of retailers who won't move into OK due to our archaic, Jesus freak laws regarding alcohol?

I'd imagine that puts us lower on their list of places to expand to. You always go where you can make a buck more than the other place.

I'm conflicted about that one. On the one hand, it's a strange exception liquor stores get which doesn't really result in better safety, a better product or anything beneficial for the consumer. On the other hand, there are lots of folks who count themselves as members of the middle class due to our protectionist archaic liquor laws.

I really don't chart my quality of life over what sort of megachains locate in my town though.

[Turd_Ferguson]

All you whine bag mother ****er's bitch'n about Wally World...If you don't like it, don't shop at it. If you're pissed about there wages, don't ****'n go to work for them...****'n whine bag mother ****ers.

Also, JM...It doesn't surprise me you'd bring Christianity into this discussion...you ****'n whine bag moosl'm...

[Midtowner]

All you whine bag mother ****er's bitch'n about Wally World...If you don't like it, don't shop at it. If you're pissed about there wages, don't ****'n go to work for them...****'n whine bag mother ****ers.

Also, JM...It doesn't surprise me you'd bring Christianity into this discussion...you ****'n whine bag moosl'm...

And it's folks like you who keep WallyWorld in business. No regard for your fellow man so long as you can get your anal lube 50-cents cheaper than you could at the corner store.

[Turd_Ferguson]

And it's folks like you who keep WallyWorld in business. No regard for your fellow man so long as you can get your anal lube 50-cents cheaper than you could at the corner store.No regard for my fellow man??? I live in a relatively small town...I buy almost exclusively from mom and pops. When I do got to Wally World it's because I'm saving money on bulk buys. I'm not a ****'n liberal that thinks they need government to save people from themselves. If someone wants to shop/work there...then by all means, get after it.

[Midtowner]

No regard for my fellow man??? I live in a relatively small town...I buy almost exclusively from mom and pops. When I do got to Wally World it's because I'm saving money on bulk buys. I'm not a ****'n liberal that thinks they need government to save people from themselves. If someone wants to shop/work there...then by all means, get after it.

And by saving money on those "bulk buys," you are supporting a company which purposefully underpays its workers in order to be competitive. Why not restructure the market to make it in companies' best interests to do right by their workers?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Wal-mart killed five hookers.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I know how most of the posters on the right feel about the Walmart protests, but what are your thoughts on the argument that the government is subsidizing Walmart. If Walmart keeps its wages (and more importantly hours) low for its employees and those employees qualify for food and housing assistance from the government, is Walmart in effect wasting our tax dollars to increase their profits? These aren't moochers we're talking about but working Americans. Granted many of them probably should have studied harder in school or worked to get more marketable skills. I agree that individuals are responsible for making a better life for themselves. However, these people are working. Many would love to be full time. Are there solutions to this problem? Is it a problem?


http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/23/news/companies/walmart-protests/Walmart has the lowest prices on goods across the board. Therefore people buy from them. That's the important thing about them. One should not hate them for being #1 Their employees work there because they voluntarily do so.

[Curly Bill]

I'm only more likely to shop at Walmart now.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yes I agree, what should minimum wage be? What amount would be fair and reasonable?

I've been wanting to have this discussion for a while now.You DID get suckered into that one. Prepare for a longwinded, protracted discussion. Your opponents will side with more government control of everthing, I would bet.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wal-Mart does this for one reason. They can get away with it. Like any large corporation their fiduciary duty is to maximize shareholder value. As a matter of fact if they didn't put shareholder interest first they would be setting themselves up for legal action.

The proper response in my opinion is to eliminate government subsidies. Without them Wal Mart would not be able to function in the manner they do. The government acts as an enabler for Wal Mart. Without government largess employees would out of necessity have to seek work elsewhere. Eventually Wal Mart would have to increase wages to retain employees. Even so there is a pretty low wage ceiling for unskilled retail workers. It was this way even before Wal Mart. Years ago the people that were retail clerks didn't make much money either. For the most part retail has always been part-time and second income type of jobs.

As for raising the minimum wage, it never works. It will result in more people losing their jobs and not increase the standard of living across the board. The minimum wage should be abolished and let the market dictate the value of any given job.EXACTLY! Superb!

[JohnnyMack]

All you whine bag mother ****er's bitch'n about Wally World...If you don't like it, don't shop at it. If you're pissed about there wages, don't ****'n go to work for them...****'n whine bag mother ****ers.

Also, JM...It doesn't surprise me you'd bring Christianity into this discussion...you ****'n whine bag moosl'm...

Did you just call me a Muslim?

LULZ

This place rules.

[olevetonahill]

I did my part to support the workers, I didnt shop there any at all this past weekend

[LiveLaughLove]

You DID get suckered into that one. Prepare for a longwinded, protracted discussion. Your opponents will side with more government control of everthing, I would bet.

Nah. There is a method to my madness. Have faith in L3.

[okiewaker]

Nothing more than a glee market with employees. Rip the roof off,,tear down the walls,,,add a couple a hot dogs carts or Indian taco stands and i'd go to one.

[kevpks]

Nothing more than a glee market with employees. Rip the roof off,,tear down the walls,,,add a couple a hot dogs carts or Indian taco stands and i'd go to one.

I'd go for the Indian tacos.

[East Coast Bias]

It is a trend for all big-box retailers to eliminate full time positions in favor of part-time. It has less to do with the government and more about reducing costs and becoming more flexible to business trends. This means they can send folks home when the business is slow and bring them back when it is busy.

[East Coast Bias]

I will give you the next model companies like Wal-mart will be trotting out. Self-service stores with displays under glass. A self service kiosk to process your credit card. you order in the morning, it shows up on your porch in the afternoon. Wal-mart is experimenting with this now.
The only missing piece currently is same day shipping and we know this is coming. When this model goes into effect, the only employee needed is the one to lock/unlock the front door and change the paper in the kiosk.Amazon on steroids.
All the big companies are working on this now....

[Sooner5030]

I will give you the next model companies like Wal-mart will be trotting out. Self-service stores with displays under glass. A self service kiosk to process your credit card. you order in the morning, it shows up on your porch in the afternoon. Wal-mart is experimenting with this now.
The only missing piece currently is same day shipping and we know this is coming. When this model goes into effect, the only employee needed is the one to lock/unlock the front door and change the paper in the kiosk.Amazon on steroids.
All the big companies are working on this now....

We need to de-link healthcare from the employee/employer relationship. It wont happen........though.

Employees are expensive......full-time employees are even more expensive.

But then again.....if you don't like working at walmart then get another job. If you cant than maybe you should have tried harder in life. That's how a meritocracy works.

[okiewaker]

I'd like to order all groceries via Internet, place a pick up time, then go through the line and have them dump them in my trunk. I hate box stores and grocery shopping,,,probly why I eat out most of the time. Can someone make this happen?

[Sooner5030]

I go to Winco, Trader Joes, and the farmers market. I have thought about buying my grains un-milled and in bulk. Also thought about ordering a whole pig or 1/4 cow from one of the local farms/ranches.

I'm not a fan of walmart......but I am also not a fan or protesters and unions.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I did my part to support the workers, I didnt shop there any at all this past weekendLOL!

[FirstandGoal]

Traditionally, I hate Wal-mart because of what they have done to other retailers. I will only go there if there's no other option and they do have some things there (oddly enough, I absolutely love the workout bras they have) that nobody else has. When I need something that I specifically know that I'm only going to be able to find at Wal-Mart, then I grudgingly drag myself in there-- and then buy that item and proceed to try to get the hell out as fast as I can!

Okay, so I get it that they have made the average costs of goods for families lower, but at what other costs? They've single-handedly destroyed many mom and pop businesses. They're doing their damned best to eliminate the middle class, and I'm willing to bet that a great majority of jobs have fled America due to their huge buying of overseas cheap ****. All of the American made stuff--the stuff that the mom and pop businesses and the other retailers used to buy, but don't anymore because Wal-Mart moved into their small-ish town and ran them out of business--- well, good luck finding any of that stuff.

Call me stupid, or elitist, or whatever else you want, but if I have a choice between shopping for groceries at Wal-Mart vs. shopping at Sprouts or Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, I'm choosing the latter options every single time. Yeah, I know I'm spending more, but its my damned dollars so I can choose to support the businesses I would rather stay in business.

If I have the option to either go to Wal-Mart vs Target, Bed Bath and Beyond, or a mall department store for household items, I'm choosing the latter 99 times out of 100. Even though I know I will more than likely spend a little extra.

That being said, I truly hope Wal-Mart stays in business because otherwise where else are all of those ridiculous people who shop there go to shop? I certainly don't want to have to deal with them while I'm out shopping. *shudder*

[olevetonahill]

Ive said it before
Wally Weird is for the Weird
Yer Welcome Curly :glee:

[Curly Bill]

Ive said it before
Wally Weird is for the Weird
Yer Welcome Curly :glee:

I hate dealing with the trash that frequents Walmart myself. That being said: I'm gonna go where I can get the same stuff for less money, and right now that is Walmart.

...and to avoid dealing with all the trash I go to Walmarts at really odd hours.

[olevetonahill]

I hate dealing with the trash that frequents Walmart myself. That being said: I'm gonna go where I can get the same stuff for less money, and right now that is Walmart.

...and to avoid dealing with all the trash I go to Walmarts at really odd hours.

Ive been in the one here maybe 5 times in the last 6 years er so.

They aint got ANYTHING i want bad enough to go there just to save a buck er 2

[JohnnyMack]

If a store is too weird for OleVet, you probably shouldn't shop there.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Ive been in the one here maybe 5 times in the last 6 years er so.

They aint got ANYTHING i want bad enough to go there just to save a buck er 2The hell you say. And to think, I thought you were just being clever, and funny, with the post:

Originally Posted by olevetonahill
"I did my part to support the workers, I didnt shop there any at all this past weekend."

[olevetonahill]

If a store is too weird for OleVet, you probably shouldn't shop there.

Too full of yer friends and Family :beaten:

[okiewaker]

Now I have been to a Sams. Cheap pizza at the snack bar is where I'll be. Let the gal shop for batteries and what not. I left there with size D batteries for a lifetime. Oh well, pizza was spot on.

[bluedogok]

Isn't Costco one of a handful of retailers who won't move into OK due to our archaic, Jesus freak laws regarding alcohol?
Actually the "Jesus freaks" have little to do with Oklahoma's liquor laws, the state distributors and retail liquor lobbies have more to do with it, mainly using the gov't to reduce outside competition. Even though I lived 37 of my 48 years in Oklahoma I could not get a retail or distributors liquor license because I have not had 10 years of continuous residence in Oklahoma. Colorado's liquor laws in terms of retail are very similar to Oklahoma, right down 3.2 beer and no wine in grocery stores. The main exception is an out-of-state retailer can only have one liquor license, Trader Joe's has theirs in the soon to open Denver location and Whole Foods has theirs in Boulder. Both Costco and Sam's have some liquor stores in Colorado and Texas, the difference is they don't own them, they are space leases to independent retailers because of the license restriction and have complete separation from the main store, no Sam's or Costco card required. Texas does allow a licensee to hold a license for five locations and allows pooling of licenses of family members for a marketing concern like they do with Spec's or Twin Liquors, you must be a state resident, beer and wine is a separate thing from liquor in Texas just like 3.2 beer is in Oklahoma and Colorado.

The whole "stores won't locate in Oklahoma" because of liquor laws is basically false, Whole Foods has stores in Massachusetts even though all alcohol sales are restricted to "package stores". Mostly the reasons they don't are more tied to demographics and misunderstanding the market when focusing their demographics on density. I knew someone who worked at Whole Foods HQ in Austin, they were shocked at the sales/profitability of the OKC store because it didn't fit into their typical demographic proforma, they couldn't believe how far off on the market they were.

As far as Walmart, I have no problems with them, don't particularly like shopping there and we only go to a Supercenter a few times a year. We do go to a recently opened Neighborhood Market some because it is next to the cleaners and pharmacy we go to, most of our grocery shopping is at King Soopers (Kroger). We shop at Sam's but go to Costco more often, that is about our only regular trips to the Walmart empire.

The "minimum wage" was never meant to be a "living wage", it would be hard to set one nationwide as a living wage in Oklahoma would be far below that of a living wage in NYC. Yes, Walmart does take advantage of gov't intervention in the labor market as do many other companies. I worked retail until 1988, I moved for better opportunities in many cases and some of the best were local retail that tended to retain people, most national retailers have a tremendous churn rate, not just Walmart because mass market retail has really become the land of short term employment, something to do until you find a better option. I remember when I worked at Skaggs (in HS, early 80's) it amazed me how much the long time employees got paid but then the market shifted and pay cuts happened, that was in the mid 80's, before Walmart got into the grocery biz. There have always been people under paid for what they do just like many are really overpaid for what they do, that has existed throughout history, long before modern retail even existed. Walmart and others have taken advantage of a lot of things in the retail world, they aren't the only ones at fault, much of it is the buying public willing to buy cheap crap over quality. Pretty much, everyone at every level shares blame.

[East Coast Bias]

All of that seems better than what we have in New Hampshire where the state owns all the liquor stores. They have awesome pricing on liquor and let the grocery stores sell the beer, but control what we are able to buy in liquor...
But on the other side of that we don't have income or sales tax...

[pphilfran]

Isn't Costco one of a handful of retailers who won't move into OK due to our archaic, Jesus freak laws regarding alcohol?

The following states do not allow wine or spirit sales in grocery stores...none have Costco...

Colorado...no, there are a few Cosco in Colo...
Connecticut...damn, Costco there too...
Delaware...****
Minnesota...damn
Penn...well, crap

Costco is not in Oklahoma for other reasons

[olevetonahill]

The following states do not allow wine or spirit sales in grocery stores...none have Costco...

Colorado...no, there are a few Cosco in Colo...
Connecticut...damn, Costco there too...
Delaware...****
Minnesota...damn
Penn...well, crap

Costco is not in Oklahoma for other reasons

That JohhnyMack is such a MO. :glee:

[Tulsa_Fireman]

He's so dreeeeeaaaamy.

[olevetonahill]

He's so dreeeeeaaaamy.

Heh, Dean sure seems to like Him ( he must swaller)

[kevpks]

The following states do not allow wine or spirit sales in grocery stores...none have Costco...

Colorado...no, there are a few Cosco in Colo...
Connecticut...damn, Costco there too...
Delaware...****
Minnesota...damn
Penn...well, crap

Costco is not in Oklahoma for other reasons

When I was in Boston, none of the Wallgreens stores or groceries sold beer around my hotel. I don't know if that is a state thing or a city thing. It was a shame too because I needed alcohol during and after that West Virginia game. I had to buy the overpriced hotel beer.

[badger]

It's not always the people that didn't make better choices in life education-wise that are working at Walmart, but also the retired store greeter types, the high school and college summer help (or those trying to take out fewer student loans by working during the school year), etc.

In all of my retail experiences, there have been some full time workers, but the seasonal ones are the ones most commonly subjected to the lousy never normal hours, the less-than-40-hours-so-we-don't-need-to-pay-benefits, etc.

I don't shop at Walmart usually because it's a madhouse pretty much every day. Their neighborhood grocery stores are fine, but the Super Centers are super crazy.

Do I think they abuse the government so they can pay lower wages and lower benefits? Absolutely. But it's not something that others aren't already doing. Close the loopholes for all or don't, but don't single out Walmart just becuase the heirs are at the top of the Forbes billionaire list

[JohnnyMack]

Actually the "Jesus freaks" have little to do with Oklahoma's liquor laws, the state distributors and retail liquor lobbies have more to do with it, mainly using the gov't to reduce outside competition. Even though I lived 37 of my 48 years in Oklahoma I could not get a retail or distributors liquor license because I have not had 10 years of continuous residence in Oklahoma. Colorado's liquor laws in terms of retail are very similar to Oklahoma, right down 3.2 beer and no wine in grocery stores. The main exception is an out-of-state retailer can only have one liquor license, Trader Joe's has theirs in the soon to open Denver location and Whole Foods has theirs in Boulder. Both Costco and Sam's have some liquor stores in Colorado and Texas, the difference is they don't own them, they are space leases to independent retailers because of the license restriction and have complete separation from the main store, no Sam's or Costco card required. Texas does allow a licensee to hold a license for five locations and allows pooling of licenses of family members for a marketing concern like they do with Spec's or Twin Liquors, you must be a state resident, beer and wine is a separate thing from liquor in Texas just like 3.2 beer is in Oklahoma and Colorado.

The scumbags that are the Oklahoma liquor lobby got in behind the wake of the old Baptist-infested blue laws that allowed for the creation of this mess in the first place. So yeah, the Jesus freaks did have quite a bit to do with this situation.

[Soonerjeepman]

Since I got my 60" tv this past weekend I don't care what they do~

actually, I'd say the majority (all of us UNDER the $250K a yr cutoff) of Americans are more concerned with living costs than anything. I also don't believe the majority of Americans (those that voted for obama - with exception to you board guys) even think about 3/4 of these issues.

Just my 2 cents...

I do hate the fact they have taken over small town businesses because they can...but again if people really cared they wouldn't shop there.

[SicEmBaylor]

I have to visit the 10th circle of hell later this afternoon. Prayers and well wishes are both accepted and appreciated.

[Curly Bill]

I have to visit the 10th circle of hell later this afternoon. Prayers and well wishes are both accepted and appreciated.

Pack a gun and get a tetanus shot. You'll be fine.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

saving money is a bitch. That place desperately needs the hand of government placed firmly upon it.

[badger]

Watch over your SicEm, O Lord, as his days increase;
Bless and guide SicEm wherever he may be, especially at Walmart.
Strengthen SicEm when he stand in checkout line;
Comfort him when discouraged or sorrowful dealing with Walmart staff;
Raise him up if he falls for a cute Walmart cashier;
and in his heart may thy peace which passes understanding
abide all the days of his Baylor life; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Wal-mart gave me a kidney once. God bless them!

Actually I think it was just some dude selling a kidney out of his van in the Wal-mart parking lot. So God bless him or Wal-mart or whoever gave me the black market kidney.

[jkjsooner]

I know how most of the posters on the right feel about the Walmart protests, but what are your thoughts on the argument that the government is subsidizing Walmart. If Walmart keeps its wages (and more importantly hours) low for its employees and those employees qualify for food and housing assistance from the government, is Walmart in effect wasting our tax dollars to increase their profits?

Would Walmart pay more if it wasn't for food and housing assistance or would employees of Walmart simply be poorer? Afterall it is a function of labor supply vs labor demand.

One could argue (and I don't buy this argument but will list it just to be complete) that the assistance actually reduces the supply of labor since some may choose not to work but instead live on this assistance.


Granted many of them probably should have studied harder in school or worked to get more marketable skills.

Some of them are older folks who may be well educated but simply aren't as marketable as they used to be. For the rest, from an individual standpoint your statement is true but from a macro view we need people to work at Walmart.

I suppose if we all got college degrees then a B.S. would be required to work at Walmart and a master's would be needed to do something better. Either way, someone is still working at Walmart.

[SicEmBaylor]

Watch over your SicEm, O Lord, as his days increase;
Bless and guide SicEm wherever he may be, especially at Walmart.
Strengthen SicEm when he stand in checkout line;
Comfort him when discouraged or sorrowful dealing with Walmart staff;
Raise him up if he falls for a cute Walmart cashier;
and in his heart may thy peace which passes understanding
abide all the days of his Baylor life; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Done that! :D

[Midtowner]

Would Walmart pay more if it wasn't for food and housing assistance or would employees of Walmart simply be poorer? Afterall it is a function of labor supply vs labor demand.

One could argue (and I don't buy this argument but will list it just to be complete) that the assistance actually reduces the supply of labor since some may choose not to work but instead live on this assistance.

Or that the supply of cheap labor is increased because the poor can afford to work part time for peanuts and receive subsidies to improve their quality of life.

The real question is whether Wal Mart would still be able to access the abundant cheap labor if there was no government subsidy.

The subsidy should be a safety net. Not a way of life. We shouldn't be setting up a system to encourage employers to utilize that safety net to pad their bottom line. That's as much corporate welfare as it is welfare welfare.

[East Coast Bias]

Mid is onto the truth. The assistance increases both the quality and quantity of the labor pool. How do I know this? I have been a big-box Store Manager (not Wal-Mart)since 2003. Retail management for the previous 27 years.

[Sooner5030]

If walmart paid everyone a "living" wage then the costs of their items/food would increase. Then all those poor people using there SNAP EBT cards every month will not be able to buy as much. Why do you hate poor people?

[Midtowner]

It's almost funny how some righties will twist themselves up in knots to defend corporate welfare and attack welfare for the poor even when we're talking about the same exact programs.

You can't be simultaneously against subsidies for the workers and in favor of the corporate exploitation of a government subsidized workforce.

[Midtowner]

If walmart paid everyone a "living" wage then the costs of their items/food would increase. Then all those poor people using there SNAP EBT cards every month will not be able to buy as much. Why do you hate poor people?

Fortunately, someone has already run the numbers on this and you are wrong.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/what-the-wal-mart-strikes-say-about-our-shopping-choices/265542/

Just more demonizing the poor and helpless.

[Sooner5030]

Fortunately, someone has already run the numbers on this and you are wrong.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/what-the-wal-mart-strikes-say-about-our-shopping-choices/265542/

Just more demonizing the poor and helpless.

Did you bother to read the study that link was based on. Those aren't accountants "running" the numbers. It was two social scientists from UC-Berk that conducted a 2004 study. Which probably can't be replicated anyway and most of it pertained to California and some of the extra state benefits they get.

[Midtowner]

Did you bother to read the study that link was based on. Those aren't accountants "running" the numbers. It was two social scientists from UC-Berk that conducted a 2004 study. Which probably can't be replicated anyway and most of it pertained to California and some of the extra state benefits they get. Also, their hypothesis was based on the assumption that only half of the cost of increased wages would be passed on to shoppers and then "most" for another.

Do you have alternative studies of what it would cost to pay a living wage to Wal Mart employees? Passing on 50% of the costs resulted in a $.46 average expense per trip for customers. Even if we're talking double or quadruple that, we're still not talking big money.

[Sooner5030]

Do you have alternative studies of what it would cost to pay a living wage to Wal Mart employees? Passing on 50% of the costs resulted in a $.46 average expense per trip for customers. Even if we're talking double or quadruple that, we're still not talking big money.

MId.....no one truly knows how much will be passed on or the bottom line hit to consumers. Those "numbers" you quote are just statistical inferences based on less then stellar standards. Something will be passed on though.

What is your proposed intervention to combat this evil walmart is allegedly doing? If intervention solved everything then why dont you pass a "everyone makes a living wage law" and see how that helps things.

[Midtowner]

MId.....no one truly knows how much will be passed on or the bottom line hit to consumers. Those "numbers" you quote are just statistical inferences based on less then stellar standards. Something will be passed on though.

What is your proposed intervention to combat this evil walmart is allegedly doing? If intervention solved everything then why dont you pass a "everyone makes a living wage law" and see how that helps things.

Other than stating that it was a study at UC-Berkley, you haven't provided any evidence that the numbers are based on less than stellar standards. Is UC-Berkley known for shoddy research? I've actually heard the opposite.

I'd rather set a limit on the percentage of employees a company can have who are part time without a tax penalty, and yes, I'd like to see the minimum wage be indexed to inflation and a bit higher.

--I mean sure.. I guess you could compare these liberal schools with the stellar science records of places like Liberty College where their science curriculum probably teaches that the Earth is 6,000 years old and Jesus Christ was born in a manger full of velociraptors.

[East Coast Bias]

I am sure Wal-Mart has already looked at this and decided there is nothing in raising wages that helps their bottom line. They don't see value in happy employees above the poverty line or how it helps move their business model forward.

[East Coast Bias]

Limiting part-time ratios through tax-penalties would get their attention. The government currently gives retail companies a bounty for hiring people out of the welfare roles. But when those companies pay $8 an hour, does that take them out of the roles?

[Sooner5030]

Other than stating that it was a study at UC-Berkley, you haven't provided any evidence that the numbers are based on less than stellar standards. Is UC-Berkley known for shoddy research? I've actually heard the opposite.

It wasn't where the study was conducted......it's the fact they were underfunded and had to use a lot of external data and then make assumptions to infer that the data could actually provide enough central tendency to make an inference about how the total population would be.

They could be right.....they could be wrong. No one knows....whose to say that if walmart increased its wages that it may get higher skilled and more efficient workers and might actually save money? But are there explicit costs.....where do those unskilled retail employees turn for work now that others have replaced them since wages were increased.


I'd rather set a limit on the percentage of employees a company can have who are part time without a tax penalty, and yes, I'd like to see the minimum wage be indexed to inflation and a bit higher.

If we continue to make it more expensive to employ people then capital will be used to find ways to deliver the same goods and services with fewer employers. Then you will continue to have small increases in economic activity while the employed:non-employed ratio gets worse.

[East Coast Bias]

And yes I work retail, am college educated and know how to spell welfare roll. I am just tired and burnt from Black Friday and Cyber Monday and everything in between....

[East Coast Bias]

Delivering the same goods and services with fewer people is exactly what the internet does for the big-box stores. All the retailers are trying to move as much business as they can in that direction, including Wal-Mart. They have been experimenting with same-day shipments in select areas. If they can pull this off, it will get rid of a lot of salaries.....

[Turd_Ferguson]

And yes I work retail, am college educated and know how to spell welfare roll. I am just tired and burnt from Black Friday and Cyber Monday and everything in between....

Peeps getting donuts and coffee there at 7-11 is whoop'n your *** eh? :biggrin:

[FaninAma]

I think Walmart is the devil but I have no issue with them playing hardball with labor unions.

[bluedogok]

When I was in Boston, none of the Wallgreens stores or groceries sold beer around my hotel. I don't know if that is a state thing or a city thing. It was a shame too because I needed alcohol during and after that West Virginia game. I had to buy the overpriced hotel beer.
I think it is state law, there were liquor stores like the old Oklahoma ones and they were the only place that had beer, wine or liquor. There was one in the area of our hotel in Beacon Hill. A big difference from Indianapolis which had everything at a CVS.


The scumbags that are the Oklahoma liquor lobby got in behind the wake of the old Baptist-infested blue laws that allowed for the creation of this mess in the first place. So yeah, the Jesus freaks did have quite a bit to do with this situation.
They have had very little to do with it for a long time, they do nothing more than fall in line with the legislators the liquor lobby has bought and paid for. The liquor lobby knows they have their vote already so they pretty much ignore them when it comes time to make payments. Every state has some screwed up laws, that always happens when special interests write the laws. Until a couple of years ago Dallas still had dry voting precincts, that is what caused the wet/dry areas in Dallas.

[Midtowner]

If we continue to make it more expensive to employ people then capital will be used to find ways to deliver the same goods and services with fewer employers. Then you will continue to have small increases in economic activity while the employed:non-employed ratio gets worse.

That is the last thing I'm worried about. If Wal Mart could figure out a way right now to cut more salaries and continue to be effective, it'd do just that. It has a duty to its stockholders to do so.

[badger]

The only thing appealing about Walmart is low prices. Their stores have absolute JUNK products in them, so about all that's left is that they're CHEAP junk. Take that away, they're outta business.

So, if they were forced to raise salaries and benefits, I don't see them raising prices... because that is ALL they have going for themselves.

[pphilfran]

Badger, it is all about perceived value..

[badger]

Badger, it is all about perceived value..
agree. like i said before, i'll shop at their neighborhood grocery store, with their generic frozen bags of veggies for a buck and cheap name brand cases of soda and cereal.

but a lot of their super center stuff?

- generic OU t-shirts that are bright red, NOT crimson
- kitchen appliances that break or quit working quickly
- McDonalds that take three times as long as a real McDonalds to serve you food that usually is more expensive also
- over crowded aisles that usually fits two carts with NO wiggle room to get by
- check out lines that take forever

...list goes on. i avoid if i can, much like best buy

[cleller]

Fortunately, someone has already run the numbers on this and you are wrong.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/what-the-wal-mart-strikes-say-about-our-shopping-choices/265542/

Just more demonizing the poor and helpless.

"Helpless"? Obviously some are born with a shorter straw, but America overflows with examples of how people are far from helpless to improve their lot with some determination and responsibility.

That said, I'm glad to see the Walmart employees do something about that crappy way many Walmarts are run. I rarely go there because I just don't like the place. If somehow they were forced to compete more for employees thru higher wages, maybe the place would improve.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Walmart was doing this long before Obama. It's not a response to any of his policies.

Walmart is just the most prominent example but I would think that if someone making minimum wage can qualify for food stamps, it's time to raise minimum wage. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for a company's workforce?

Well the way to correct this is to eliminate government help from people who are working. They can't work at Wally and have a seat at the trough as well. The people will then find that the wally pay ain't working and either quit to go on the dole or find a better paying job. Wally loses employees and can't find people to work at thier stores, they lose money. They then improve wages and benefits...

Or you can do as I do, don't shop at Wally.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Wal-Mart pays market wages for labor because they operate in the same labor market as every other business. If they paid more for workers, they might find that they would have a more loyal, dedicated work force which makes the experience more pleasant for customers. Instead, they choose to have a transient work force. The people on the bottom rung of the work force are there for a reason. Often times, they are there of their own making.

Bottom line, if you don't like Wal-Mart's business practices then vote with your wallet. In a free society we have that right.

[Midtowner]

Wal-Mart pays market wages for labor because they operate in the same labor market as every other business. If they paid more for workers, they might find that they would have a more loyal, dedicated work force which makes the experience more pleasant for customers. Instead, they choose to have a transient work force. The people on the bottom rung of the work force are there for a reason. Often times, they are there of their own making.

Bottom line, if you don't like Wal-Mart's business practices then vote with your wallet. In a free society we have that right.

Or as a country, we could simply decide to make those business practices illegal. That'd save the state money and raise people out of poverty at the same time. IDGAS about WallyWorld's bottom line. They could still make a buck if they paid their workers a living wage.

[Soonerjeepman]

we could, we could also make gay marriage illegal, abortion illegal, smoking dope illegal, not having health insurance (oh wait that just got done)

I'm sure your point will be business vs personal choices, but "we" country could decide to not shop there either. Yes, SOME regulations are necessary but again, just like the personal choices, where do you stop?

Guess I don't understand gov intrusion only on business is ok, considering it was someone's personal decision to start that business.

[Midtowner]

we could, we could also make gay marriage illegal, abortion illegal, smoking dope illegal, not having health insurance (oh wait that just got done)

I'm sure your point will be business vs personal choices, but "we" country could decide to not shop there either. Yes, SOME regulations are necessary but again, just like the personal choices, where do you stop?

Guess I don't understand gov intrusion only on business is ok, considering it was someone's personal decision to start that business.

It is just as much government intrusion on business that we subsidize Wal Mart's workers with government benefits as it would be to force Wal Mart to pay their employees enough to not need federal assistance.

Both of those things are government actions and the only reason you seem to approve of one over the other is that one is a handout to a corporation and the other is a government handout to unskilled laborers.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Or as a country, we could simply decide to make those business practices illegal. That'd save the state money and raise people out of poverty at the same time. IDGAS about WallyWorld's bottom line. They could still make a buck if they paid their workers a living wage.

Mid, as much as you would like to see it, the answer everytime is not more government or new legislation. Sometimes we do have the proper legislation available, it just needs to be used and sometime we need to let people think for themselves and not rely upon Ma Government to think for us...

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Or as a country, we could simply decide to make those business practices illegal. That'd save the state money and raise people out of poverty at the same time. IDGAS about WallyWorld's bottom line. They could still make a buck if they paid their workers a living wage.

Go for it Sparky. Never mind that by doing that, it'll lead to a rush to automation which will increase capital costs to go into retail, which will lead to higher barriers to entry for potential competitors, which will lead to further consolidation of market share in the hands of the large retailers. Oh yeah, and now those workers are on welfare instead of food stamps and EITC.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're the smartest guy in history. We've finally figured out how to eliminate poverty. Just tell businesses to pay their workers more. I can't believe nobody ever thought of that.

[pphilfran]

Go for it Sparky. Never mind that by doing that, it'll lead to a rush to automation which will increase capital costs to go into retail, which will lead to higher barriers to entry for potential competitors, which will lead to further consolidation of market share in the hands of the large retailers. Oh yeah, and now those workers are on welfare instead of food stamps and EITC.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're the smartest guy in history. We've finally figured out how to eliminate poverty. Just tell businesses to pay their workers more. I can't believe nobody ever thought of that.

Hate to tell you but there is already a rush to automation...

UPC (barcodes) have already been implemented by even the smallest stores....

RFID product identification and check out is in the near future regardless of pay scale...RFID will change the face of retail...the RFID will have all pertinent information about the product, not just cost but the date produced and where it was produced, the entire product history....today they are still a little too expensive but when you produce billions of the little suckers the price will come down to next to nothing...

You will see all credit cards (some already have the technology) with RFID...you will pick up the product from the shelf, load your cart, and walk out the door and the reader will pick up each product and charge your card...the store will have a complete history on your product purchases...what your buy, how much you buy, and when you buy...

I wouldn't be surprised to see tiny LED screens attached to the shelf instead of price tags...the screen reads the product on the shelf and shows product name and current, accurate price...

Massive changes coming to retailing over the next 10 or 15 years....

[cleller]

The government sets a minimum wage. After that, historically speaking, we've placed the responsibility on the individual worker to decide whether or not he feels a given job pays enough.

Walmart seems to be a lousy employer. Maybe with enough of an outcry both workers and customers will avoid the place enough to make a change. That's as far as I'd want to go with gov control of jobs.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Hate to tell you but there is already a rush to automation...

UPC (barcodes) have already been implemented by even the smallest stores....

RFID product identification and check out is in the near future regardless of pay scale...RFID will change the face of retail...the RFID will have all pertinent information about the product, not just cost but the date produced and where it was produced, the entire product history....today they are still a little too expensive but when you produce billions of the little suckers the price will come down to next to nothing...

You will see all credit cards (some already have the technology) with RFID...you will pick up the product from the shelf, load your cart, and walk out the door and the reader will pick up each product and charge your card...the store will have a complete history on your product purchases...what your buy, how much you buy, and when you buy...

I wouldn't be surprised to see tiny LED screens attached to the shelf instead of price tags...the screen reads the product on the shelf and shows product name and current, accurate price...

Massive changes coming to retailing over the next 10 or 15 years....

Good, then Midtowner won't have to wring his hands over what Wal-Mart pays their employees in 15 years. It only makes sense that you'll see retail store automation. I mean, there are fully automated warehouses now.

[JohnnyMack]

Mid, as much as you would like to see it, the answer everytime is not more government or new legislation. Sometimes we do have the proper legislation available, it just needs to be used and sometime we need to let people think for themselves and not rely upon Ma Government to think for us...

I'd argue that the average consumer doesn't have that level of awareness, they just know that if they buy their groceries at Wal-Mart they save $40 or $50 a week and to most people that matters. The average person strolling into any Wal-Mart in America has no idea how Wal-Mart treats its employees and how it actively works at having those employees apply for Govt. assistance. All they see is, "Wal-Mart - save money, live better" and they don't question how the sausage is made. I suppose it begs the question, "Is it the responsibility of the retailer to disclose this stuff?" Probably not. It's probably more of a caveat emptor situation. But if activists who are opposed to the sort of practices Wal-Mart engages in raise awareness and people do become aware and that forces real change, that's pretty awesome in my book.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'd argue that the average consumer doesn't have that level of awareness, they just know that if they buy their groceries at Wal-Mart they save $40 or $50 a week and to most people that matters. The average person strolling into any Wal-Mart in America has no idea how Wal-Mart treats its employees and how it actively works at having those employees apply for Govt. assistance. All they see is, "Wal-Mart - save money, live better" and they don't question how the sausage is made. I suppose it begs the question, "Is it the responsibility of the retailer to disclose this stuff?" Probably not. It's probably more of a caveat emptor situation. But if activists who are opposed to the sort of practices Wal-Mart engages in raise awareness and people do become aware and that forces real change, that's pretty awesome in my book.

Which is fine. If people get a peak behind the curtain, don't like what they see and vote with their wallet by going elsewhere, that's the way things should be. There's no need for gov't to come in here and create more distortions in the marketplace.

[Midtowner]

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're the smartest guy in history. We've finally figured out how to eliminate poverty. Just tell businesses to pay their workers more. I can't believe nobody ever thought of that.

Tell businesses to pay workers more and eliminate most part time work. Will it eliminate poverty? Hell no. Will it help? Sure.

As to automation, that's coming anyhow. We'll always need some human component in retail though, and I'd like to see those people dealt with fairly, and no, I don't trust Wal Mart to decide what is fair.

[Curly Bill]

IDGAS how Walmart treats its workers! If it treats them bad enough and they don't want to work there they can quit, at which point one would theorize Walmart will have to treat its workers better to retain them. Unless Walmart is holding its workers in bondage, putting them in violation of the 13th amendment, then the good ol nanny-state govt should mind its own damn bizness!

[East Coast Bias]

Hate to tell you but there is already a rush to automation...

UPC (barcodes) have already been implemented by even the smallest stores....

RFID product identification and check out is in the near future regardless of pay scale...RFID will change the face of retail...the RFID will have all pertinent information about the product, not just cost but the date produced and where it was produced, the entire product history....today they are still a little too expensive but when you produce billions of the little suckers the price will come down to next to nothing...

You will see all credit cards (some already have the technology) with RFID...you will pick up the product from the shelf, load your cart, and walk out the door and the reader will pick up each product and charge your card...the store will have a complete history on your product purchases...what your buy, how much you buy, and when you buy...

I wouldn't be surprised to see tiny LED screens attached to the shelf instead of price tags...the screen reads the product on the shelf and shows product name and current, accurate price...

Massive changes coming to retailing over the next 10 or 15 years....

They would probably invest in this before they would the human side of the business.However, the internet is a bigger game-changer than any of this. The business is moving away from brick and mortar stores and into the internet warehouses. When same-day shipping is reality, you will pay a premium to walk out of a store with product, you certainly won't get any deals.....

[Turd_Ferguson]

IDGAS how Walmart treats its workers! If it treats them bad enough and they don't want to work there they can quit, at which point one would theorize Walmart will have to treat its workers better to retain them. Unless Walmart is holding its workers in bondage, putting them in violation of the 13th amendment, then the good ol nanny-state govt should mind its own damn bizness!

I think I covered this in my "whiney *** mother ****er's" post... :biggrin:

[diverdog]

IDGAS how Walmart treats its workers! If it treats them bad enough and they don't want to work there they can quit, at which point one would theorize Walmart will have to treat its workers better to retain them. Unless Walmart is holding its workers in bondage, putting them in violation of the 13th amendment, then the good ol nanny-state govt should mind its own damn bizness!

Well you should because if you pay income taxes then you are subsidizing some of their workers.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Well you should because if you pay income taxes then you are subsidizing some of their workers.
So you have a problem with subsidizing somebody that's actually working and needs some extra help, but you don't have a problem with Quanisha laying on her fat *** with her baby daddy and her 8 kids getting a **** load more money from "subsidies"? Gotit.

[LiveLaughLove]

So you have a problem with subsidizing somebody that's actually working and needs some extra help, but you don't have a problem with Quanisha laying on her fat *** with her baby daddy and her 8 kids getting a **** load more money from "subsidies"? Gotit.

Not a long as they vote Obama.

I've decided I want a job from mid. Obviously he pays his non-skilled runners around $20-25/ hour with excellent and very cheap benefits and profit sharing equal to all of the other barristers in his law office.

I'm sure he wouldn't be a hypocrite and not pay them significantly above minimum wage. Janitors there probably take in $30+/ hour, while paralegals probably are making $40+/ hour. I mean that would still besignificantly below lawyer wages.

I'm also betting that you give up cases and ask the person wanting you to represent them to go and find a minority lawyer to represent them because you've gotten your quota of cases for the year. In the interest of fairness they should seek out a female or minority lawyer.

It seems there should be laws for equity in that to me.

Now that I think about it, those pay levels are low compared to what a lawyer makes. Why do you hate poor people and why are you such a racist?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Not a long as they vote Obama.

I've decided I want a job from mid. Obviously he pays his non-skilled runners around $20-25/ hour with excellent and very cheap benefits and profit sharing equal to all of the other barristers in his law office.

I'm sure he wouldn't be a hypocrite and not pay them significantly above minimum wage. Janitors there probably take in $30+/ hour, while paralegals probably are making $40+/ hour. I mean that would still besignificantly below lawyer wages.

I'm also betting that you give up cases and ask the person wanting you to represent them to go and find a minority lawyer to represent them because you've gotten your quota of cases for the year. In the interest of fairness they should seek out a female or minority lawyer.

It seems there should be laws for equity in that to me.

Now that I think about it, those pay levels are low compared to what a lawyer makes. Why do you hate poor people and why are you such a racist?

Last I remember, Mid doesn't provide insurance for his employees...

[olevetonahill]

Last I remember, Mid doesn't provide insurance for his employees...

Hes such a bastage

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Go for it Sparky. Never mind that by doing that, it'll lead to a rush to automation which will increase capital costs to go into retail, which will lead to higher barriers to entry for potential competitors, which will lead to further consolidation of market share in the hands of the large retailers. Oh yeah, and now those workers are on welfare instead of food stamps and EITC.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're the smartest guy in history. We've finally figured out how to eliminate poverty. Just tell businesses to pay their workers more. I can't believe nobody ever thought of that.The committid socialist will never admit freedom and free markets are better than govt. controlling everything.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The government sets a minimum wage. After that, historically speaking, we've placed the responsibility on the individual worker to decide whether or not he feels a given job pays enough.

Walmart seems to be a lousy employer. Maybe with enough of an outcry both workers and customers will avoid the place enough to make a change. That's as far as I'd want to go with gov control of jobs.People mostly want to pay the lowest price for comparable items. As long as Walmart offers that, and people willingly work there, they're good to go, regardless of how much harping there is by statists.

[LiveLaughLove]

Last I remember, Mid doesn't provide insurance for his employees...

Well now that just can't be the case. I mean that would make him a hypocrite, so I'm sure that's not the case.

I'm sure he pays for the very best healthcare his money can buy for his employees. Why, I'm betting he even grabs one or two people off a street corner and gives them a living wage and healthcare just out of a sense of fairness every so often.

I don't think mid would stoop to doing devious hiring practices like using sub contractors to avoid paying the taxes associated with employees.

Nah, you must be mistaken. Mid only works to supply low income folks with jobs at a living wage.

[Midtowner]

Jesus effing Christ... We've been over this a number of times. If I could provide health insurance and remain competitive, I would. It should be required of ALL employers, and I'd employ the same number of employees. This isn't rocket science. Wally World is in the same boat. They should be required to pay higher wages and decrease their part time employee % and so should everyone else.

[LiveLaughLove]

Jesus effing Christ... We've been over this a number of times. If I could provide health insurance and remain competitive, I would. It should be required of ALL employers, and I'd employ the same number of employees. This isn't rocket science. Wally World is in the same boat. They should be required to pay higher wages and decrease their part time employee % and so should everyone else.

Nice blasphemy. Go up to Muslim and say effing Muhammad.

I was taking an educated guess that you didn't walk your walk. Educated only in so much as almost all liberals talk their talk but rarely walk their walk. And of course, they all have valid reasons for not walking their walk.

Lets break yours down, shall we?

You demand everyone get healthcare and chide Walmart for low wages and us subsidizing their employees. You don't pay your employees health benefits because you have to remain competitive.

You could always take more out of your share of the pie, pay those health benefits and still remain competitive. It would just lower your share of the pie.

But you want the government to mandate health benefits, thereby giving your employees health benefits and allowing you to raise your prices, along with all other lawyers, and still remain competitive AND get to keep your share of the pie.

So for all of your talk of feigned concern for people, you're really just a materialistic as walmarts share holders and board.

Imagine that.

[Midtowner]

And if everyone played by the same rules, I wouldn't have to do what I do and prices for healthcare would be a whole lot cheaper. Also, I'm a small employer and don't have enough folks to even qualify for group rates, so my cost vs. Wallyworld's cost is way different.

I'm a businessman just like anyone else. I pay as little as I can possibly get away with. Am I in favor of the government coming in and telling me and all of my competition to pay more? Sure. That'd be fair.

I'm just glad I don't have to compete globally for workers where in just about every other country in the world, the government subsidizes healthcare, so that's one less thing businesses have to worry about.

[diverdog]

So you have a problem with subsidizing somebody that's actually working and needs some extra help, but you don't have a problem with Quanisha laying on her fat *** with her baby daddy and her 8 kids getting a **** load more money from "subsidies"? Gotit.

Show me anywhere on this board where I even said such a thing?

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Tell businesses to pay workers more and eliminate most part time work. Will it eliminate poverty? Hell no. Will it help? Sure.

As to automation, that's coming anyhow. We'll always need some human component in retail though, and I'd like to see those people dealt with fairly, and no, I don't trust Wal Mart to decide what is fair.

Wal-Mart doesn't decide what's fair. Wal-Mart pays market rates. I'm sure you pay above market rates for your employees since you're such a nice guy.

[diverdog]

Wal-Mart doesn't decide what's fair. Wal-Mart pays market rates. I'm sure you pay above market rates for your employees since you're such a nice guy.

Its not so much what they pay as opposed to how they game the system.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Nice blasphemy. Go up to Muslim and say effing Muhammad.

I was taking an educated guess that you didn't walk your walk. Educated only in so much as almost all liberals talk their talk but rarely walk their walk. And of course, they all have valid reasons for not walking their walk.

Lets break yours down, shall we?

You demand everyone get healthcare and chide Walmart for low wages and us subsidizing their employees. You don't pay your employees health benefits because you have to remain competitive.

You could always take more out of your share of the pie, pay those health benefits and still remain competitive. It would just lower your share of the pie.

But you want the government to mandate health benefits, thereby giving your employees health benefits and allowing you to raise your prices, along with all other lawyers, and still remain competitive AND get to keep your share of the pie.

So for all of your talk of feigned concern for people, you're really just a materialistic as walmarts share holders and board.

Imagine that.WHO'DA THUNK IT?!?!? Good post!

[Soonerjeepman]

I'm a businessman just like anyone else. I pay as little as I can possibly get away with. Am I in favor of the government coming in and telling me and all of my competition to pay more? Sure.

so does every other business but you want the gov to level the field...really? wow. I'm thinking the gov ought to tell you and every business they need to provide health insurance. Like LLL said, as long as it doesn't eat into YOUR share of the pie you're good~

I want your taxes to go up to give me a raise that I haven't had for 4 yrs but all my costs have gone up (me being a teacher I get paid by taxes)...sound good?

[pphilfran]

I don't know why you can't comprehend what Mid is saying...

The government has set the bar low...all it takes is one competitor to go for the lowest cost and it forces everyone else that wants to stay competitive to meet those same low cost goals...

If/when the bar is raised and everyone is forced to supply health care to employees then it would be viable for Mid to supply heathcare to his employees and still remain competitive...

[badger]

I don't know why you can't comprehend what Mid is saying...

The government has set the bar low...all it takes is one competitor to go for the lowest cost and it forces everyone else that wants to stay competitive to meet those same low cost goals...

If/when the bar is raised and everyone is forced to supply health care to employees then it would be viable for Mid to supply heathcare to his employees and still remain competitive...

Yes, I also feel like Mid is being unfairly targeted. IMHO, he's saying, much like Stoops says when the BCS works out in OU's favor instead of Texas' or somebody else's, tell us what the rules are at the beginning of the football season and we'll play by them.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yes, I also feel like Mid is being unfairly targeted. IMHO, he's saying, much like Stoops says when the BCS works out in OU's favor instead of Texas' or somebody else's, tell us what the rules are at the beginning of the football season and we'll play by them.He's saying it's government's role and right to have ever increasing regulations and impediments to the private sector, and not govt's responsibility to cut back on entitlements and social spending.

[rock on sooner]

Wal-Mart doesn't decide what's fair. Wal-Mart pays market rates. I'm sure you pay above market rates for your employees since you're such a nice guy.

Walmart doesn't pay market rates, Walmart SETS market rates, in every
thing they do!

[pphilfran]

He's saying it's government's role and right to have ever increasing regulations and impediments to the private sector, and not govt's responsibility to cut back on entitlements and social spending.

That is not what he is saying...

He believes that if you want everyone to have healthcare then the rules need to put in place to even the cost to all business...

If you don't require it then fine I will meet the competition...if it is required then fine I will meet the requirement...

He is in the camp (along with myself) that to get costs under control then all of the population must have a minimal, catastrophic healthcare policy...

[SoonerorLater]

Walmart doesn't pay market rates, Walmart SETS market rates, in every
thing they do!

Even before Wal Mart retail workers didn't make squat. It's a low skill job that has always been occupied primarily by part time and second income workers.

[Soonerjeepman]

Even before Wal Mart retail workers didn't make squat. It's a low skill job that has always been occupied primarily by part time and second income workers.

yup...I started at Baskin Robbins in 9th grade, $1.80 an hour, min was $2.75 I think. I actually closed the store, counted the drawer, etc. Amazing a store owner would allow a HS kid to do that, but that is what it was.

[pphilfran]

I do know that in the late 70's I managed a grocery store and my non union checker/stockers were making seven bucks an hour...minimum wage was two fifty...when I left go go into manufacturing I took a cut in pay...

[pphilfran]

yup...I started at Baskin Robbins in 9th grade, $1.80 an hour, min was $2.75 I think. I actually closed the store, counted the drawer, etc. Amazing a store owner would allow a HS kid to do that, but that is what it was.

My first real job was scooping at BR...buck sixty...

[Soonerjeepman]

My first real job was scooping at BR...buck sixty...

pp...you're not so bad after all ..lol. Nothin like sticky arms from scooping~

[pphilfran]

pp...you're not so bad after all ..lol. Nothin like sticky arms from scooping~

Yep...there was one girl that worked there that had big hooters...they always seemed to get ice cream on them and we always had to point out that fact...

[Soonerjeepman]

LOL...that's funny...

[BetterSoonerThanLater]

please don't get rid of wal-mart. if they go away, then we won't have this gem of a website to brighten our day:

http://peopleofwalmart.com

[olevetonahill]

Yall done got me so Pizzed off at Wally Weird I may never walk back in one :torn:

[cleller]

What about Dollar General? The small town alternative. They probably pay less, and have even more cheapo Chinese merchandise, but at least the employees may benefit by living and working in a more relaxed environment than the average Walmart.

I have a small local lumber yard that I buy anything possible at, but still spend some at Dollar General, and occasionally feel overchaged at the local Ace Hardware. Nice place, though. Good help, easy to find what you want.

[East Coast Bias]

Most of what WM sells really cheap is junk. The guys on the freight teams call the truckload shipments the "chinese junkwagon". Also it would surprise a lot of people to know that they are not the cheapest on everything. This is why they have a price match policy. Why would they need to price match? Its really not who is the cheapest but who is perceived as the cheapest.
I am sure their health insurance for full timers is really good as well....

[badger]

yup...I started at Baskin Robbins in 9th grade, $1.80 an hour, min was $2.75 I think. I actually closed the store, counted the drawer, etc. Amazing a store owner would allow a HS kid to do that, but that is what it was.

one of my HS classmates embezzled at least $5K from a local gas station right after graduation. so, stores still put (perhaps misguided) trust in teens, but my guess is that's confined more to small business and more rural areas.