Let The Democrats And Their Supporters Own It: Let Go Of The Rope

[FaninAma]

http://www.westernfreepress.com/2012/11/09/let-go-of-the-rope-give-the-democrats-whatever-they-want/

Quit fighting the electorate who obviously want big government....they just want our kids and grandkids to pay for it. Those on the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder will be hit the hardest by the policies of those they voted for.

Nothing will change until the consequences are allowed to occur. Painful? Yes, but the longer the GOP plays along and delays the inevitable the worse the outcome will be.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, there are lots of people who vote for nannystate, now, if not a majority, at least fairly close. Add in the inevitable fraud, which is bigger each election. Add in third party and independents, which are almost always perceived conservatives, to divide the conservative vote and help the democrats. Add in those conservatives who grump up, and don't even vote, and it looks like we have no choice but to take it in the shorts, and do the best we can to make our own lives better.

[FaninAma]

Well, there are lots of people who vote for nannystate, now, if not a majority, at least fairly close. Add in the inevitable fraud, which is bigger each election. Add in third party and independents, which are almost always perceived conservatives, to divide the conservative vote and help the democrats. Add in those conservatives who grump up, and don't even vote, and it looks like we have no choice but to take it in the shorts, and do the best we can to make our own lives better.

If you want a sea change in the way the country looks at big goverenment go back to the 1928 and 1932 election. Hoover won in 1928 with like 59% of the vote. By 1932 he lost by the same margin. The electorate will ALWAYS blame the party in power for the economic calamity that happens. They will never expend an ounce of energy trying to discern the root causes of the economic collapse.

The real concern I have is that those who want big government will vote for a dictator if the current socialistic policies collapse.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If you want a sea change in the way the country looks at big goverenment go back to the 1928 and 1932 election. Hoove won in 1928 with like 59% of the vote. By 1932 he lost by the same margin. The electorate will ALWAYS blame the party in power for the economic calamity that happens. They will never expend an ounce of energy trying to discern the root causes of the economic collapse.

The real concern I have is that those who want big government will vote for a dictator if the current socialistic policies collapse.I couldn't agree more. They want handouts, not work.

As I understand, H. Hoover, after the '29 stock market crash, started going socialist himself, promising govt. largess. But, the public had blamed capitalism, which was espoused by the republicans, and it did Hoover no good to offer Socialism. Instead they voted for a real Socialist in FDR in 1932.

[LiveLaughLove]

http://www.westernfreepress.com/2012/11/09/let-go-of-the-rope-give-the-democrats-whatever-they-want/

Quit fighting the electorate who obviously want big government....they just want our kids and grandkids to pay for it. Those on the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder will be hit the hardest by the policies of those they voted for.

Nothing will change until the consequences are allowed to occur. Painful? Yes, but the longer the GOP plays along and delays the inevitable the worse the outcome will be.

This is what i said after the election. The Republicans should vote present on everything. They should make their opposition in the media the best they can (which isn't easy for them), but not even come close to obstructing anything.

The only difference in my view and the person that wrote the article is at the end. He/she says if it works he would become a socialist. There is zero chance of their policies working. Zero.

The electorate is on their side, but history is most definitely not. Time and time again their type of policies have failed and done so spectacularly.

When they do this time, they and the media will need the Republicans to blame. If the Republicans do anything beyond getting out of the way, that blame (thanks to the compliant media) will succeed, and the Republicans will be the fall guys once again.

The opposition to them is going to have to come from the grassroots. The producers in this country are going to have to get a gut full and rise up. That will not happen if any blame at all can be put on the Republicans.

The quicker their policies fail, the quicker normal people that understand the benefit of work, free enterprise, and entrepreneurial capitalism can get control of this Idiocracy, and bring it back to some form of sanity.

I guess what I mean is the quicker we let the kids break stuff, the quicker we can hold them accountable, then the quicker the adults can start the clean up.

[FaninAma]

The only reason Europe and the US have not suffered even more economically since 2008 is the fact that the resoective central banks in these countries are engaged in a massive increase in the money supply. At some point that money supply will have to return toward more normal levels or it will produce high levels of inflation. I am sure Bernanke is sh*tting bricks right now that they have already pumped an enormous amount of articifical liquidity into the system and we are still just treading water.

[LiveLaughLove]

If you want a sea change in the way the country looks at big goverenment go back to the 1928 and 1932 election. Hoove won in 1928 with like 59% of the vote. By 1932 he lost by the same margin. The electorate will ALWAYS blame the party in power for the economic calamity that happens. They will never expend an ounce of energy trying to discern the root causes of the economic collapse.

The real concern I have is that those who want big government will vote for a dictator if the current socialistic policies collapse.

Most people still blame Bush, not Obama for the economy. The media's complete acquiescence to Obama created this.

Never before was a President able to successfully blame the President before him for his 4 years in office. Never before has a President been given a pass for skyrocketing gas prices and been told "Presidents don't really control that stuff anyway" (while this is partially true, it is not completely true. His lack of drilling, vetoing the pipeline, etc helped create the high prices).

Never before has such a failure in almost every sphere of government been able to garner a second term. That is the power of the media.

It actually started with the Democrat primaries in '08. Hillary was a shoe in for the nomination. But the media decided Obama was their guy, and all of a sudden, one bad story after another on Hillary.

Obama didn't campaign particularly well in those primaries. In fact, he made numerous gaffes, but they were glossed over time and time again, while Hillary's were amplified.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The kids are running the country, and might continue to do so regardless of how things go. Only Events might change things, unfortunately.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The MSM TOOK FIRM CONTROL OF ELECTIONS IN '06, imho. tHEY DID AGAIN IN '08, LET OFF IN '10, AND CAME BACK WITH A VENGEANCE IN'12. woops, sorry about all the unintended caps.

[FaninAma]

LLL, the media has staked what little reputation they have left on the success(or lack thereof) of this President. I hope they like th results.

BTW, here is a graphic of the M1 money supply showing how far along the monetization path this country has gone. I actually think they are conservative in their figures.
M1 Money Supply data from St. Louis Fed
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq143/dastewart1101/mbase.jpg

What they are doing is criminal. Instead of allowing the natural economic cycles to play out and clean out the deadwood they are deepening the yawning canyon of debt that will have to be dealt with. There is zero chance that the world will be able to grow enough to fill in that massive deficit. iN FACT, IT WILL ONLY KEEP GETTING DEEPER, AND DEEPER AND DEEPER. At some point, even with the tremendously low interest rates seen today the cost of servicing that debt will crush us.

If Bernanke refuses to accept another term as Chairman of the Federl Reserve Board of Governors you should be very concerned.....not becuase he is such a great chairman(he is a horrible Chairman) but because he knows the severity of the economic calamity heading our way and he doesn't want to be in charge when it gets here.

[FaninAma]

One other thing, economies based on redistribution take about 70 to 80 years to collapse. The Keynesian control of our government began in the late 30's so I calculate we have about 4 to 7 years at most....even with the Federal Reserve fighting the inevitable cycle completion.

[diverdog]

One other thing, economies based on redistribution take about 70 to 80 years to collapse. The Keynesian control of our government began in the late 30's so I calculate we have about 4 to 7 years at most....even with the Federal Reserve fighting the inevitable cycle completion.

your calculations are wrong. We can support our debt payments and as I have said before we have a great ability to raise taxes and cut the military. We are not Greece!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

your calculations are wrong. We can support our debt payments and as I have said before we have a great ability to raise taxes and cut the military. We are not Greece!Support our debt payments with laughter, and OF COURSE we have a great ability to raise taxes and downsize the military. We are now a decided socialist country. Good luck to us to succeed where history shows we can't.

[yermom]

all it takes is one election for us to be socialists?

[FaninAma]

your calculations are wrong. We can support our debt payments and as I have said before we have a great ability to raise taxes and cut the military. We are not Greece!

We can't service the debt for long if interest rates return to the historic average. You can't have long term prosperity by devaluing your currency and crushing savers and those on fixed incomes. Raising taxes in a recession is insanity but I guess most of the voters in this country have lost their f'ing minds so it's not shocking. The military is the only thing that keeps the value of the US dollar from collapsing.

BTW, do you know that JP Morgan-Chase has $93 TRILLION of derivatives on their books? Most of these derivatives are to manipulate currency rates and asset prices.

Money is being created and exchanged but nothing of real value is. Out infrastructure is crumbling but their is no way the government can afford to fix it. The Federal Reserve will soon own assets equal to 40% of our GDP. If a group of identifiable rich men were accumulating wealth/assets at this rate the progressives would be in the streets rioting. We are becoming nothing but serfs on the estate of the Federal Reserve.

[yermom]

so what was Rmoney's plan to fix any of that?

[LiveLaughLove]

your calculations are wrong. We can support our debt payments and as I have said before we have a great ability to raise taxes and cut the military. We are not Greece!

Are we going to believe you, or our lying eyes?

There is absolutely no way this is sustainable. Tax all you want, it won't do a thing to curb the insatiable spending already on the books, and the spending being planned.

Short of almost gutting the military there is no savings to be had, and gutting the military would not only leave us vulnerable, but it would cost thousands and thousands of jobs.

We are already bleeding jobs at an alarming rate thanks to ObamaCare. I don't think we could stand to lose any more from major defense industry cuts.

Inflation is just around the corner too. Won't be long before it pops it's head up and says remember me?

[LiveLaughLove]

so what was Rmoney's plan to fix any of that?

A complete red herring and deflection at this point. Romney isn't in charge.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

all it takes is one election for us to be socialists?You don't realize what's been happening?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Socialism is esconced. We are phukced!

[pphilfran]

Socialism is esconced. We are phukced!

Not yet....as DD says, we are not Greece....now, if we continue to kick the can down the road.....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Not yet....as DD says, we are not Greece....now, if we continue to kick the can down the road.....towards the cliff, as we have been doing, and have geometrically progressed the last 4 years, then there's no doubt.

[yermom]

A complete red herring and deflection at this point. Romney isn't in charge.

the big new idea is that this election was the beginning of the end. a vote for Obama was a crime against humanity.

so what was the alternative?

[pphilfran]

towards the cliff, as we have been doing, and have geometrically progressed the last 4 years, then there's no doubt.

Spending is definitely a problem...currently, though, the slow growing economy is the more critical problem....at 2% growth no amount of logical spending cuts or taxation will save us...

[yermom]

i'd still like to hear what the solutions are, other than no income taxes or regulations and AHHH! SOCIALISTS!

[pphilfran]

i'd still like to hear what the solutions are, other than no income taxes or regulations and AHHH! SOCIALISTS!
1. Pray the economy gets to 4% growth
2. Freeze spending at current levels and let inflation slowly reduce the annual deficit
3. Military can take an additional hit beyond the spending freeze by shutting down overseas bases and bring some troops home...spend the money on those troops here and not overseas and you get a sort of stimulus
4. Slowly continue to raise the SS age to 70...when/if the economy gets on it's feet bump the withholding limit to 140k...
5. Go back to Clinton level taxes when economy is back to normal...though this is really a small help...

Other than Medicare/Medicaid it is that simple...

[Sooner5030]

It's not an idealogical problem. Everyone wants something without paying for it. It's not just the US...look at Argentina, Japan and most of Europe.

The disease is PEAK intervention......the cure is collapse.

[diverdog]

1. Pray the economy gets to 4% growth
2. Freeze spending at current levels and let inflation slowly reduce the annual deficit
3. Military can take an additional hit beyond the spending freeze by shutting down overseas bases and bring some troops home...spend the money on those troops here and not overseas and you get a sort of stimulus
4. Slowly continue to raise the SS age to 70...when/if the economy gets on it's feet bump the withholding limit to 140k...
5. Go back to Clinton level taxes when economy is back to normal...though this is really a small help...

Other than Medicare/Medicaid it is that simple...

more energy production to lower cost of manufacturing will help a lot.

[pphilfran]

more energy production to lower cost of manufacturing will help a lot.


That is a given... :)

[East Coast Bias]

Nice budget,I like the moderation and cadence it shows.It has something both sides hate, which gives it promise. Did you throw in the prayer piece to avoid being labeled as a liberal again?

[pphilfran]

Nice budget,I like the moderation and cadence it shows.It has something both sides hate, which gives it promise. Did you throw in the prayer piece to avoid being labeled as a liberal again?

To get the economy to 4% growth will take a miracle...liberal or not...

[FaninAma]

all it takes is one election for us to be socialists?

C'mon. I know that you know that nobody claims the last election led to our current dependency on redistrubutionist policies.

[SoonerorLater]

your calculations are wrong. We can support our debt payments and as I have said before we have a great ability to raise taxes and cut the military. We are not Greece!

sigh

[FaninAma]

more energy production to lower cost of manufacturing will help a lot.
The current administration is fervently trying to drive coal companies out of business, just placed 2 million federal acres off limits to drilling and has his EPA breathing down the neck of natural gas producers regarding fracking.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The current administration is fervently trying to drive coal companies out of business, just placed 2 million federal acres off limits to drilling and has his EPA breathing down the neck of natural gas producers regarding fracking.If the administration was to be honest, and admit they are trying to disembowel the economy, their actions would make some sense.

[diverdog]

The current administration is fervently trying to drive coal companies out of business, just placed 2 million federal acres off limits to drilling and has his EPA breathing down the neck of natural gas producers regarding fracking.

He did not place two million acres off limits to oil drilling.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/267095-interior-proposes-shielding-federal-lands-in-west-from-drilling

Coal needs to clean up its act. If we could replace tomorrow with a better cheaper alternative then that would be fine with me.

[okie52]

He did not place two million acres off limits to oil drilling.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/267095-interior-proposes-shielding-federal-lands-in-west-from-drilling

Coal needs to clean up its act. If we could replace tomorrow with a better cheaper alternative then that would be fine with me.

He placed a whole lot more than 2 million acres off limits...try 2 oceans.

[JohnnyMack]

Coal production is down??? Oh no!!!!

Wait, it's 2012, not 1912.

Carry on.

Meanwhile oil and natural gas production is up and will continue to increase, whether the right wing echo chamber that is this forum would have you believe it or not.

Coal is moving towards obsolescence, probably not in my or my kids lifetime, but eventually. It's been trending downward for quite a while now and none of us, except possibly Fan, are walking around with a shopping cart like Viggo Mortenson in The Road.

[Midtowner]

One major coal company just suspended mountain top removal operations.

If we can press on without coal, that'd be in everyone's best interests. For the long term, especially in WV's best interests. With the availability of cheap and abundant NG, there's no reason for us to be mining coal anymore.

[cleller]

1. Pray the economy gets to 4% growth
2. Freeze spending at current levels and let inflation slowly reduce the annual deficit
3. Military can take an additional hit beyond the spending freeze by shutting down overseas bases and bring some troops home...spend the money on those troops here and not overseas and you get a sort of stimulus
4. Slowly continue to raise the SS age to 70...when/if the economy gets on it's feet bump the withholding limit to 140k...
5. Go back to Clinton level taxes when economy is back to normal...though this is really a small help...

Other than Medicare/Medicaid it is that simple...

Begin welfare cuts to unwed mothers, force them to turn to their families or adoption. Keep increasing the cuts until birth control or adoption become the norm again.
This will cause a ripple (maybe a wave) as fewer high-risk kids are born, and kids that are currently raised in homes with no discipline or stability are more often raised in a better environment. Education will improve, and reliance on government programs will decrease.

[pphilfran]

Clean coal....lol...

[pphilfran]

Coal production is down??? Oh no!!!!

Wait, it's 2012, not 1912.

Carry on.

Meanwhile oil and natural gas production is up and will continue to increase, whether the right wing echo chamber that is this forum would have you believe it or not.

Coal is moving towards obsolescence, probably not in my or my kids lifetime, but eventually. It's been trending downward for quite a while now and none of us, except possibly Fan, are walking around with a shopping cart like Viggo Mortenson in The Road.

Summary electrical stats http://www.eia.gov/electricity/data.cfm#summary


Electrical generation by coal peaked in 2005 and in 2010 was down to 1999 levels
Petroleum in 2010 at 1/3 of 1999 level
NG has nearly doubled since 1999
Nukes and Hydro combined nearly flat since 1999
Other renewables have nearly doubled since 1999 (wind up 2000%)

[okie52]

Coal production is down??? Oh no!!!!

Wait, it's 2012, not 1912.

Carry on.

Meanwhile oil and natural gas production is up and will continue to increase, whether the right wing echo chamber that is this forum would have you believe it or not.

Coal is moving towards obsolescence, probably not in my or my kids lifetime, but eventually. It's been trending downward for quite a while now and none of us, except possibly Fan, are walking around with a shopping cart like Viggo Mortenson in The Road.

Oil and gas production is up in spite of the left wing and Obama regardless of what the Obamabots would have you believe. Leases are down by 42% on federal lands. Lease bonus money dropped from $9.6 billion in 2008 to $36 million. The Atlantic and Pacific Oceans were banned from exploration by Obama. Most US companies haven't been drilling for NG in almost 2 years because the price was too cheap.

Coal demand in the US has dropped because of NG which had nothing to do with any Obama policy. But this is a hollow victory for the climate change adherents. Coal exports are up and will continue to rise as demand for coal continues to rise worldwide.


“Because the impacts of CO2 emissions are global in nature, it makes no difference from a climate change perspective whether coal mined in Wyoming is consumed in Chicago or Shanghai,” said a July, 2011 report by the Columbia Law School’s Center for Climate Change. “With coal export volumes poised to increase dramatically in the near- to medium-term, circumstances call for more comprehensive legal and policy response.”


In contrast, demand for coal is rapidly rising in Asia. U.S. coal exports to China surged from 2009 to 2010, jumping from 387,000 tons (January-September) to over 4 million tons the following year. Demand for US coking and steam coal also grew rapidly in Japan, India, and South Korea. Industry forecasters anticipate a “30-year super cycle in global coal markets.” U.S. companies hope to cash in on the market and dramatically increase coal exports, especially from the Powder River Basin (PRB) of Wyoming and Montana through ports on the US west coast.

U.S. coal exports rose 49 percent during the first quarter of 2011 compared to the previous quarter, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

In November 2011 the DOE reported that six seaports on the Gulf Coast and East Coast of the United States account for the bulk of the country's coal exports. Additionally the report noted, "Six seaports accounted for 94% of U.S. coal exports in 2010, up from 63% in 2000. Over 68% of total U.S. coal exports in 2010 were coking coal, which is used in making iron and steel. Steam coal, used to generate electricity, comprised the remaining 32% of exports."[7]
In 2011 US exported 107,259 thousand short tons of coal. This was the highest level of coal exports since 1991. More impressive: exports recorded a more than 25% leap compared to the previous year, 2010.

It was reported in 2012 that coal exports in the United States were on track to set a new annual record, surpassing the previous all-time high set in 1981 of 113 million short tons.

This highlights the absolute stupidity of the left wing & Obama's unilateral "cap and trade" policy that passed the dem house in 2009. It not only punished NG with a 22% tax but it also rewarded ethanol as a favored fuel source and made no mention of nukes. So our industries would have been the only one's punished by a hefty tax and it would have had almost no impact on global warming (CO2) without China, India, Indonesia and other developing countries being on board. And those countries have made it very clear they won't be giving up their coal.

Now, of course, there are some real geniuses like Ed Markey that are also trying to ban NG (LNG) exports because it would diminish the US industries competitive advantage over other countries because of our "cheap natural gas". Yet he was a sponsor of the cap and trade bill that would have added the 22% tax to only "US Industries" that used NG. Truly brilliant strategies from the left.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

One major coal company just suspended mountain top removal operations.

If we can press on without coal, that'd be in everyone's best interests. For the long term, especially in WV's best interests. With the availability of cheap and abundant NG, there's no reason for us to be mining coal anymore.Naturally, best served by totalitarian means, rather than the free market...that's right, WHAT free market?!

[LiveLaughLove]

Here's a quiz:

1. Soaring electric prices (Obama said electricity prices will necessarily have to skyrocket) that will occur from making life harder on the coal plants will hurt:

A. The Rich
B. The Middle Class
C. The Poor
D. Both B. and C.

2. Soaring gas prices (from $1.83/gal when he took office to currently over $3.80/gal) have and will continue to hurt:

A. The Rich
B. The Middle Class
C. The Poor
D. Both B. and C.

3. Carbon taxes added to just about everything will hurt:

A. The Rich
B. The Middle Class
C. The Poor
D. Both B. and C.

4. Who really gives a crap about the Middle Class and Poor in reality vs the fiction that is written by a liberal media?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Oil and gas production is up in spite of the left wing and Obama regardless of what the Obamabots would have you believe. Leases are down by 42% on federal lands. Lease bonus money dropped from $9.6 billion in 2008 to $36 million. The Atlantic and Pacific Oceans were banned from exploration by Obama. Most US companies haven't been drilling for NG in almost 2 years because the price was too cheap.

Coal demand in the US has dropped because of NG which had nothing to do with any Obama policy. But this is a hollow victory for the climate change adherents. Coal exports are up and will continue to rise as demand for coal continues to rise worldwide.





This highlights the absolute stupidity of the left wing & Obama's unilateral "cap and trade" policy that passed the dem house in 2009. It not only punished NG with a 22% tax but it also rewarded ethanol as a favored fuel source and made no mention of nukes. So our industries would have been the only one's punished by a hefty tax and it would have had almost no impact on global warming (CO2) without China, India, Indonesia and other developing countries being on board. And those countries have made it very clear they won't be giving up their coal.

Now, of course, there are some real geniuses like Ed Markey that are also trying to ban NG (LNG) exports because it would diminish the US industries competitive advantage over other countries because of our "cheap natural gas". Yet he was a sponsor of the cap and trade bill that would have added the 22% tax to only "US Industries" that used NG. Truly brilliant strategies from the left.it is ASTOUNDING to see America voting for those a*sholes again, ain't it?

[okie52]

it is ASTOUNDING to see America voting for those a*sholes again, ain't it?

It does defy logic.

[FaninAma]

Higher unemployment hurts the poor the most.

Undocumented workers flowing into the country hurt the poor competitng for those jobs the most.

Inflation hurts the poor the most.

More people added to social programs already bursting at the seams hurts the poor already on those programs the most.

More government spending increases the income distribution gap hurting the poor the most.

Regressive forms of taxes including sales taxes, tobacco and alcohol taxes, gambling and fees(i.e. car tags, etc.) hurt the poor the most. All of these are going up under the progressives/redistributionists. Of course try telling this to those who vote for the progressives.

[okiewaker]

I evaluate how things are going by eggs and gas,,,everyday stuff. Eggs are way up and so is gas. I'm not real happy with things.

[sappstuf]

http://global.nationalreview.com/images/photoshop_111412_A.jpg

[okie52]

http://global.nationalreview.com/images/photoshop_111412_A.jpg

Hilarious.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I evaluate how things are going by eggs and gas,,,everyday stuff. Eggs are way up and so is gas. I'm not real happy with things. What about long distance calls and memory?