Big 10 might add Maryland, and Rutgers. When is the Big 12 going to get back to 12

[dennis580]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-17/sports/chi-maryland-rutgers-big-ten-20121117_1_big-ten-network-delany-rutgers


This is rediculous. The SEC is already at 14 the Big 10 might be going to 14 soon(obviously both conferences plan to eventually go to 16 yet the Big 12 cannt even get back to 12 teams so we can hold a conference championship game. Not having a conference championship game will put Big 12 teams at a disadvantage when the playoffs start in 2 years, and the selection committee decides which 4 teams get in.

[kevpks]

Maybe this will lead to other ACC defections. I wouldn't mind grabbing a few of those teams.

[8timechamps]

I've been saying since the additions of WVU and TCU that the Big XII needed to pick up two more. For whatever reason, the official word continues to be "we're happy at 10". They're going to **** around long enough and there really won't be any teams worth a **** left, and we'll end up getting Temple and San Jose State, or the equivalent. I just don't get the waiting game, it's pretty clear at this point that the magic number is going to be 14.

[ouwasp]

when is that Jacka$$ Dodds at tex going to retire? He seems to be the most vocal person against expansion.

I think it would be good to give WV some eastern company, like Pitt. Those two fanbases get along real well don't they?

Wonder what Mizzou is thinking? They started all this crap by flirting with B10, got stood up for Nebraska, now find themselves doormatting in the SEC... while the B10 is talking growth again...heheheh...

[EatLeadCommie]

Maryland going to the Big 10 makes absolutely no sense.

[sooneron]

Please! NO Rutgers! Their "fans" are horrendous and they don't bring anything to the table anyway. I live an hour from the campus and would love to have a close OU game, but not that bad.

[Scott D]

Please! NO Rutgers! Their "fans" are horrendous and they don't bring anything to the table anyway. I live an hour from the campus and would love to have a close OU game, but not that bad.

you're safe since they're due to announce later this week their intention to join the Big 10.

This is no longer about expanding back to 12, this conference will be left behind without expanding to 14. Florida State is back in play....and so is Clemson I suspect.

[badger]

when is that Jacka$$ Dodds at tex going to retire? He seems to be the most vocal person against expansion.

I think it would be good to give WV some eastern company, like Pitt. Those two fanbases get along real well don't they?

Wonder what Mizzou is thinking? They started all this crap by flirting with B10, got stood up for Nebraska, now find themselves doormatting in the SEC... while the B10 is talking growth again...heheheh...

I love the idea of Nebrasky and Mizzou returning, but neither of them probably do.

WVU and Pitt do hate each other, yes, but not sure Pitt wants to abandon their east coasters for the mighty midwest.

[Scott D]

Pitt would likely stay with the ACC along with Syracuse. They went there for more than football reasons.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

you're safe since they're due to announce later this week their intention to join the Big 10.

This is no longer about expanding back to 12, this conference will be left behind without expanding to 14. Florida State is back in play....and so is Clemson I suspect.

Yep, what I was thinking when I read about the moves this morning...

I wonder if BYU will be in play....

As for the fourth team??? UTEP, Tulsa, La Tech? Houston?

[Mac94]

The problem for the Big-12 is that any added teams at this point bring little in value. IMHO the best bet for OU at this point would be the revival of the Pac-16 option with Texas, oSu, and Texas Tech merging with Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and Utah as an eastern division of a Pac-16. Seems better than trying to salvage a watered down Big-12

[ouflak]

The problem for the Big-12 is that any added teams at this point bring little in value. IMHO the best bet for OU at this point would be the revival of the Pac-16 option with Texas, oSu, and Texas Tech merging with Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and Utah as an eastern division of a Pac-16. Seems better than trying to salvage a watered down Big-12

And just tear up the LHN and Fox Sports contracts?

[JohnnyMack]

And just tear up the LHN and Fox Sports contracts?

Doesn't Fox Sports have a contract with both the PAC 12 and the Big 12? Seems that could be easily reworked.

The LHN could be more of a sticking point. It's the same reason those c0cksuckers did this in the first place, they wanted to protect their interests, conference affiliations be damned. Too bad the LHN hasn't been much of a success. I wonder if Texas and Larry Scott will reapproach this deal now?

[EatLeadCommie]

I don't get this business about adding TV markets, especially in this day and age when I can watch any football game anywhere from my house. How is it that adding MD and Rutgers adds the NYC and DC markets if nobody in either of those towns cares about either of those teams? Seems to me that adding Duke would give you a bigger share of NYC and NJ since about their entire student body and alumni base is from that area.

Rutgers going to the B10 I can understand, but it's such a stupid move by MD. They're going to be a bigger fish out of water in the B10 than Nebraska is. Cherish your newfound rivalry with Rutgers, Maryland. I'm sure that one is really going to be better than what you had in the ACC.

[Mac94]

The LHN isn't doing all that great ... and the bonus is that Fox sports is a Pac-12 partner as well ... anyway ... thinkning long term here ... but with the wave being 14 team conferences (CNNSI reporting UConn to the ACC) the Big East is now pretty much picked apart in terms of anyone worth having. So long term does the Big-12 stand pat at 10 while things evolve around them or what are the options? What's best for Oklahoma long term?

The Pac-12 will now have it's own network, the Big-10 was the forerunner here, and the SEC network is coming in a few years. These are the big 3 conferences ... they are the most stable leagues longterm. So where does Oklahoma's interests lie? Is the Big-12 viable in the long term ... 10-20 years from now? Is this conference as is going to keep up with the big three conferences that are emerging?

[Indy Sooner]

Maryland going to the Big 10 makes absolutely no sense.

They're seeking to increase their number of lacrosse conference championships.

[Mac94]

How is it that adding MD and Rutgers adds the NYC and DC markets if nobody in either of those towns cares about either of those teams?

i think it has to do with cable substription rates in Big-10 states versus outside Big-10's footprint. think they get ten cents per household or so outside ... but 40 cents inside the footprint from the cable companies. That isn;t determined on actual viewers ... just potnetial viewers. So adding the state of Maryland and NY/NJ gives them an additional 30 cents per cable customer in those states. Think that's whats at play here.

[badger]

Those damn Europeans might be onto something with their footballs.

PREMIERE LEAGUE: At the top of the English football league system, it is the country's primary football competition. Contested by 20 clubs, it operates on a system of promotion and relegation with the Football League.

Those that are below that threshold are "relegated" to lower leagues.

Therefore, the top programs always play eachother (OU, some SEC, some B1G, some Pac-12 and maybe someone from the ACC) and those that suck for too long (think Miami of now compared with Miami 2001, or USC now compared with USC before Carroll left) are relegated to lower leagues.

There is no salary cap, so big money donors can still stick their meddling paws in all of the decisions.

[soonergirlNeugene]

I have to confess I'm LOLing pretty hard at Mizzou right now for bolting to the SEC last year. You have to think they would have been offered before Maryland. We should send them a box of tissues.

[Scott D]

I don't get this business about adding TV markets, especially in this day and age when I can watch any football game anywhere from my house. How is it that adding MD and Rutgers adds the NYC and DC markets if nobody in either of those towns cares about either of those teams? Seems to me that adding Duke would give you a bigger share of NYC and NJ since about their entire student body and alumni base is from that area.

Rutgers going to the B10 I can understand, but it's such a stupid move by MD. They're going to be a bigger fish out of water in the B10 than Nebraska is. Cherish your newfound rivalry with Rutgers, Maryland. I'm sure that one is really going to be better than what you had in the ACC.

Simply put, and the MD brass pretty much confirmed it, this move is about money. the Maryland Athletic Program is in the red in a not very good way. It's more a case of the guaranteed money from the Big Ten is more stable than any potential deals the ACC planned on making. Another potential reason is the fact that the ACC shares of whatever pool the ACC was going to have from their deals was being thrown away by the fact that the ACC was letting Notre Dame pick it's cake, have it's cake, and eat it's cake without having to fully contribute financially to the conference.

[tycat947]

Simply put, and the MD brass pretty much confirmed it, this move is about money. the Maryland Athletic Program is in the red in a not very good way. It's more a case of the guaranteed money from the Big Ten is more stable than any potential deals the ACC planned on making. Another potential reason is the fact that the ACC shares of whatever pool the ACC was going to have from their deals was being thrown away by the fact that the ACC was letting Notre Dame pick it's cake, have it's cake, and eat it's cake without having to fully contribute financially to the conference.

What about the $50M exit fee it's going to cost them to leave??? Really? Will take them years to earn back all that lost money!!!

[ouflak]

I have to confess I'm LOLing pretty hard at Mizzou right now for bolting to the SEC last year. You have to think they would have been offered before Maryland. We should send them a box of tissues.

If the Big Ten asked right now, Missouri would go in an instant. There is no exit fee and no GOR (points the SEC fans like to brag about incessantly). If Missouri had waited, they'd be wringing their hands about the future of the Big XII and their own future just like the rest of us now, and maybe more so, because I think the B1G would have asked Maryland over Missouri anyway. If B1G wanted Missouri, they'd have them. They, for whatever rea$on, don't want them. Atleast not yet.

[Ruf/Nek7]

I wouldn't count on any ACC teams at this point. The new conference deal put in place handcuffs teams to the ACC. No one is going to want to pay $50 million and Big XII won't help pay if FSU and Clemson want to join. Face it, IF Big XII expands, it will be with teams like Louisville, Pitt, Boise St., and BYU. I hope I am wrong in the end.

[sooner n houston]

I see the ACC being picked apart. SEC, BIG12 all take a few and no one is left to collect the 50 mil!

[ddub0224]

If the ACC is looking at UConn or L'ville....should the B12 reconsider L'ville? Gives more expose out east with WV. Kansas is now being mentioned as future target of B10. I hate to see us become the next Big East because we refused to grow.

[Mac94]

I hate to see us become the next Big East because we refused to grow.

They were talking about that on the drive home on sports radio here in austin. The Big Ten is going 14, Pac is at 12, SEC at 14, ACC will be at 14 soon when they replace Maryland ... and then there's the Big-12 at 10 ... with a power conference to the east, west, and north. The Big East is pretty much picked over ... so if this continues who is most likely to get picked apart next?

[badger]

I love how the B1G is counting all of the TVs it has sewn up and all of the money it can throw in its Scrooge McDuck swimming pit... while their football product on the field UTTERLY SUCKS.

Grantland had a good column on this on the Espens this morning, that they don't give two sh!ts about how irrelevant their football is becoming nationally (both because it sucks and because the population is all moving south anyways) because they are too busy counting their money.

As tOSU proves, you can't use your hoards of money to recruit (nor tattoo) players, so what good is money if you can't win with it?

Seriously, that's a good question. Texas would like to know the answer ASAP. Hook em

[Tear Down This Wall]

There are plenty of crappy teams to choose from, just draw two out of a hat. You can't get more half-assed than adding West Virginia and TCU.

There are dozens and dozens of programs with mediocre football bonafides, such as West Virginia and TCU brought to the table. Just throw them all in a hat and draw. As long as DeLoss Dodds is happy, the Big 12 will stay together...accepting more and more mediocrity along the way.

At least we're not alone. The Big Ten chasing joke programs Maryland and Rutgers put us in good company...followed closely by the Pac-10's additions of Colorado and Utah. The national networks are just clamoring to show off those Buffs and Utes against the new Pac-12 powers.

What a payoff! Northwestern versus Rutgers will be the latest, bestest Game of Century of all!

Competition and pride mean nothing. Money means everything in a world where a tennis guy can become a conference commissioner.

[badger]

If Nebrasky can't stay relevant in football, maybe they're reconsider the big 12... oh wait, they hate texas more than the aggies, hehe.

Would we take back Colorado even if they wanted to come back. Hmmm...

Mizzou is just kind of out there in the middle of the country. It can go any direction... and continue its losing-at-everything mediocrity tradition (last year's Big 12 basketball tourney one of few exceptions).

As for Aggie... aggie is as aggie does. They're kind of a disorganized cluster**** at the top from what I've read and the academic side seems hellbent on profiting from the athletic side. It probably doesn't help that they have texas-sized egos in their texas-sized heads.

[Mac94]

What do you all see as the long term future of the Big-12 and Oklahoma?

My concern is that the Big-12 is getting squeezed slowly by the powers around them. The Pac-12 and it's new network, the new SEC and its coming network, the expanded Big Ten and its network ... the Big-12 standing pat with no where to go .... no viable options to expand. The era of the superconference looks like its coming ... and the Big-12 is way behind in that race.

[Seamus]

You can't get more half-assed than adding West Virginia and TCU.


Clearly ... CLEARLY ... you can.

[Indy Sooner]

If the Big Ten asked right now, Missouri would go in an instant. There is no exit fee and no GOR (points the SEC fans like to brag about incessantly). If Missouri had waited, they'd be wringing their hands about the future of the Big XII and their own future just like the rest of us now, and maybe more so, because I think the B1G would have asked Maryland over Missouri anyway. If B1G wanted Missouri, they'd have them. They, for whatever rea$on, don't want them. Atleast not yet.

I think Mizzou's academic reputation may stymie any future consideration from the B1G. Nebraska is now the lowest ranked academic institution in the B1G but they brought much more to the conference than Mizzou ever would have-- hence, Mizzou getting stood up for them as noted by another poster. Mizzou's academics are more in-line with their SEC brethren: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/data/spp+50

[Tear Down This Wall]

Clearly ... CLEARLY ... you can.

Are Maryland and Rutgers any less half-assed than West Virginia and TCU. I mean, really? Colorado? Utah? It's all a blur of traditional suck that occasionally does well and johnny-come-latelys.

It's not about competition for anyone anymore. That's why Notre Dame is taking its football act to the ACC. It's pathetic.

The BCS may be "dying," but the same thing is happening all around - the power brokers are still lining things up to make thing easier on themselves, both on the field and at the television bank.

If we are going to embrace the ****tiness that NCAA football is becoming, we may as well sell out like the johnny-come-latelys: gray helmets like Oklahoma State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Arkansas State, etc - uniforms that look they were drawn by junior high kids passing time in after school detention - in game scoreboard (and, sideboard) stupidity to rival what Mark Cuban throws down during Dallas Mavericks games.

Here, we've slid from fire-breathing asskickers to this from current defensive linemen David King:
''At the end of the day, that's the most important thing, walking out of that stadium with a win instead of a loss,'' King said. ''We'd be sitting here at 7-3 instead of 8-2. I'm proud of the way we kept fighting all year. Last year when we had the same situation (against Baylor), we didn't come out in the winning end of it. This year, we found a way to win. Our offense just kept coming and bailed us out of the game and scored one more point and made one more play.''

That statement from a defensive player coached by a supposedly tough, defensive-minded head coach. We are clearly wasting money on having a defensive coordinator on staff at all.

Don't worry, David, with that kind of attitude, loss number three is just around the corner. Too bad it won't be in cool Nike Combat helmets and jerseys.

Sickening. They should just line the teams up at midfield, light a campfire, hold hands, roast marshmallows, and award the win to whichever side sings Kumbaya the loudest.

[badger]

What do you all see as the long term future of the Big-12 and Oklahoma?

My concern is that the Big-12 is getting squeezed slowly by the powers around them. The Pac-12 and it's new network, the new SEC and its coming network, the expanded Big Ten and its network ... the Big-12 standing pat with no where to go .... no viable options to expand. The era of the superconference looks like its coming ... and the Big-12 is way behind in that race.

You'd think so... but then you have to wonder if the panic button is getting pressed a little bit too much.

The WAC, the first 16-team conference, had too many teams and 8 of them broke off to form the MWC. Others went to C-USA. Where is the WAC now?

The Big East also expanded to 16 teams, but with a different mindset -- 8 non-football basketball powerhouses, 8 all-sport teams. The Big East is the first target for conference expansion raiding.

I think that conferences are going to discover that 16 and even 14 is TOO. MANY. TEAMS. Here's some reasons off the top of my head why that's too many for a single conference to handle:

1- Football seasons have, at most, 14 games. Two of those are postseason. Most teams have 12 regular season games. You are not regularly playing every opponent each year.

2- Equal partnership is difficult with so many partners. You will have the haves and the have-nots increasingly with more conference members. One powerhouse and its cohorts may call all of the shots. A few powerhouse programs may hog all of the titles. The little guys may get a share of the revenue pie and share the same field come Saturday, but will they ever be treated as equals when they clearly aren't? Never.

3- More mouths to feed means smaller pieces of the pie for everyone. One of the reasons the Big 12 can be so satisfied with 10 members when other conferences are looking to expand to 14 (and possibly more) is that unlike the other guys, they only have to split profits 10 ways. A $200 million contract for the Big 12 means each member will get about $20 million.

4- Smaller membership means more focus on individual members. Holy cow, a Heisman winner from Waco, Texas? A viral locker room postgame speeches from a coach from Ames, Iowa? A BCS berth for the guys from Stillwater, Okla? An old man who came out of retirement to lead his team to a near-undefeated season from Manhattan, Kansas? Only in the 10-team Big 12.

For these concerns, I don't mind staying put exactly as we are and seeing how the cards fall. Smaller programs can hit the panic button if the Big 12 is all they have, but Oklahoma? Texas? We are going to be fine regardless, because of who we are and what we've done.

If anyone should be worried, it should be Baylor. Dammit, Baylor, why did you have to ruin a storybook ending to Old Man Snyder's legacy and career? :mad:

[Scott D]

What about the $50M exit fee it's going to cost them to leave??? Really? Will take them years to earn back all that lost money!!!

They've already started fighting it. You have to remember when the ACC came up with that addendum there were two schools who voted against that exit fee.

Maryland and Florida State.

[Scott D]

Now it's official both Maryland and Rutgers to the Big Ten.

San Diego State and Boise State are reassessing their position, and they may opt out of the Big East to stay in the MWC, with the MWC trying to woo BYU back into the fold. Basically the playoff setup relegated the Big East to a second tier status, and Boise/BYU would hold the same standing as a conference champ in the MWC as they would in the Big East in terms of getting to a BCS bowl.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

Screw Nebraska and Mizzou. They left, good riddance. I don't want them back.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

^What he said.

[Mac94]

badger -

I hear ya ... but realignment at this time is different than the WAC experiement or the original Big East. The power conferences are moving slower ... and expanding territory. The Big Ten is the vet in this followed by the SEC. The Big Ten took Penn St several decades ago and added Pennsylvania ... then they waited. Next they added Nebraska ... another large state school in a new state. They then waited a few years and are now moving again ... again taking state schools in two new states.

The SEC did this as well ... adding S. Carolina and Arkansas in 1992 ... state schools in new states. They followed the same plan last yr in adding Mizzou and A&M. State schools in new territory.

The Pac has used the same blueprint in the addition of CU and Utah.

This is the new reality. Each one targeting state schools in a state not currently in their footprint.

Given this ... there are fewer and fewer schools that meet this criteria left for the big three to grab ... and with the Big East now in its final demise ... there are two conferences left to raid ... The ACC and the Big-12. The question is when the final dominos of this process will fall. The SEC would like to grab either UNC or NC St and either VT or Virginia ... expanding its base a bit north east.

If the Big Ten expands again Kansas could be a target ... not sure who else.

For the Pac-12 I think the final targets would be Texas and OU .... if they can get them but there are barriers to that.

[badger]

So is it good for the conference, or is it good for the individual schools?

Because you can't expect individual institutions (that, by the fact of declaring themselves "flagships" in their particular states, or "selective" in their admissions processes, you KNOW they think higher of themselves than they should) to just say "Well, we'll do what's best for everybody."

Winning football, not simply being in the SEC, will propel alumni interest and therefore, big money booster donations, and there are THREE (count em, THREE) in your 14-team SEC that have ZERO conference football wins this season.

Is Missouri best suited being a perennial loser in the SEC in football, or better suited to be in a smaller, regional conference where they have a better chance of being ranked, being a winning program, going to bowls, having a Heisman candidate and even shots at national titles and BCS berths?

If you are the best in the best conference, then life is good. If you are the worst in the best conference, there is little chance of the deck getting restacked: You will likely suck forever with no chance of moving up. If that deck just gets larger, your chances of getting better, of getting noticed, of getting national media attention, big bowl berths, or national awards for players and coaches?

I'm happy for your early success in the SEC (no I'm not) and it's nice that you and your freshman quarterback are getting to shine in the big time (no it isn't), but it's not the same elsewhere. Mizzou, Colorado and others joined bigger leagues and became bigger b!tch programs. Kentucky's, Wazzu's and Indiana's conference expanded around them and also became bigger b!tch programs in their bigger leagues. Yay them.

[SoonerorLater]

It's unreasonable to expect every addition to a conference be a traditional powerhouse. TCU and WV are good football programs. The reality is the Big 12 couldn't survive with eight teams. It was good move. I would say we can continue with ten for a while. If some ACC football schools come into play then we could expand to twelve.

[Mac94]

The flip side of the coin is that realignment is starting again and A&M and Mizzou and Nebraska, and now Rutgers and Maryland have secured themselves a place for the long term ... is styability better than instability?

Football fortunes will rise and fall. We will win in the SEC ... and we will lose in the SEC. We will have years like this one and better ... and we will have seasons like Auburn is currently having. But .. we are secured into a conference that will be around for decades and decades. Texas A&M is a wonderful school ... and has so much potential ... but in terms of athletics we are not alabama, Ohio St., Texas, USC, Oklahoma .... we are not a "blue blood" .... so securing our spot for the long term is important.

I am an alum of A&M ... I am happy that A&M is in a stable place ... and as a fan this has been a fun year. I love that the rivalry with LSU is back ... same with the Piggies from Arkansas. I also grew up a Sooner fan .. dad was class of 74 ... and I still root for OU ... a "t-shirt" fan here in Austin, if you will. I want OU to be secure also ... I think it will be but I hope the transition into whatever college football is becoming goes smoothly. I personally hope OU ends up in a Pac-12 expansion along with Texas. I just hope that if thats what happens there are not major potholes or speed bumps on the way that would adversely effect Oklahoma.

[Mac94]

It's unreasonable to expect every addition the a conference be a traditional powerhouse. TCU and WV are good football programs. The reality is the Big 12 couldn't survive with eight teams. It was good move. I would say we can continue with ten for a while. If some ACC football schools come into play then we could expand to twelve.

Agree with West Virginia ... disagree on TCU. They added nothing to the footprint of the Big-12 ... part of expansion is diving up the pie by into more slices ... the flip side is expanding so that the pie increases in size. West Virginia did that ... TCU really doesn't. The Big-12 would have done better by going harder after BYU or Colorada St. or someone outside the current footprint. I remember the SWC days ... TCU ceased to be anything in college football when the pro sports began to rise in the metroplex. That dynamic hasn't changed and while they had a good run in the MWC ... the fundamentals are the same.

[Scott D]

Agree with West Virginia ... disagree on TCU. They added nothing to the footprint of the Big-12 ... part of expansion is diving up the pie by into more slices ... the flip side is expanding so that the pie increases in size. West Virginia did that ... TCU really doesn't. The Big-12 would have done better by going harder after BYU or Colorada St. or someone outside the current footprint. I remember the SWC days ... TCU ceased to be anything in college football when the pro sports began to rise in the metroplex. That dynamic hasn't changed and while they had a good run in the MWC ... the fundamentals are the same.

I surely hope that by Colorado State you really meant Louisville.

[Mac94]

Whatever ... Louisville would have been better than TCU.

[birddog]

How's about we join the big 10 to make it 16 teams then get down to business. Take osu and let Texass, byu and domer start a 3 team super conference

[Mac94]

How's about we join the big 10 to make it 16 teams then get down to business. Take osu and let Texass, byu and domer start a 3 team super conference

The problem for Oklahoma is that current expansion by the power conferences are to take one school and no "me too's" along for the ride. The last conference that added "me too's" was the Big-8 merger with the four SWC schools when the Texas Lege forced Baylor and Tech into the deal. Thats the one expansion of "power type" conferences that has failed.

[badger]

Unless the Big 12 folds the politics of this state will not allow OU and OKLAST to be separated... unless we can pull a fast one like Tex'am did on UT/Tech/Baylor in bolting the Big 12.

[SCSoonerfan]

Not that I think it will happen but I would love for Clemson and Florida State to get in the big 12.

[dennis580]

There are plenty of crappy teams to choose from, just draw two out of a hat. You can't get more half-assed than adding West Virginia and TCU.

There are dozens and dozens of programs with mediocre football bonafides, such as West Virginia and TCU brought to the table. Just throw them all in a hat and draw.

Um West Virgina, and TCU are clearly better additions then Maryland, and Rutgers. Also West Virginia, and TCU are not mediocre football programs both teams were coming off conference championships last year, and have been successful for a lot of years now.

If the Big 10 can add Maryland, and Rutgers to get to 14 surely we can find 2 more teams to get to 12.

[dennis580]

What about the $50M exit fee it's going to cost them to leave??? Really? Will take them years to earn back all that lost money!!!

50 million exit fee dont go into effect til the middle of 2013. Though Maryland doesnt leave for the Big 10 til 2014. Confusing situation, but obviously Maryland is not going to pay anywhere near $50 million.

Its also why the Big 12 needs to be talking to FSU, and Clemson RIGHT NOW before the exit fee does go into effect.

[ddub0224]

12 teams:
North: L'ville, Clemson, WV, Kansas, K State, Iowa St
South: OK, Ok St, Tx, Tx Tech, TCU, Baylor

FSU would be big, but very isolated. L'ville and Clemson are closer to WVU.

[SoonerorLater]

All of this may not turn out as expected. I think it's pretty certain that the Big 10 is looking to get to sixteen teams. Fourteen is really not a good workable number. The trouble as I see it for them to get to sixteen they will be watering down the product. They will start losing traditional rivalries, rivalries that were good match-ups and replace them with unexciting games for the sole purpose of getting a footprint in a media market. At some point the product on the field will translate into the dollars they receive.

[Scott D]

Look for Louisville to be back in play. The only question with them right now is whether or not Tennessee will pursue Charlie Strong to replace Dooley. Other than that, potentially the only other "competition" for them would be from the ACC. However, UConn is allegedly in the early talking stages with the ACC, if that's the case then they'll be the replacement for Maryland and Louisville would be interested in attempting to re-start the Big-12 conversation.

Ideal situation, the Big-12 adds Louisville, Florida State, and BYU with an outside shot at Clemson or Boise State as a fourth.

[SoonerorLater]

Look for Louisville to be back in play. The only question with them right now is whether or not Tennessee will pursue Charlie Strong to replace Dooley. Other than that, potentially the only other "competition" for them would be from the ACC. However, UConn is allegedly in the early talking stages with the ACC, if that's the case then they'll be the replacement for Maryland and Louisville would be interested in attempting to re-start the Big-12 conversation.

Ideal situation, the Big-12 adds Louisville, Florida State, and BYU with an outside shot at Clemson or Boise State as a fourth.

I would be surprised if we went West. Just a logistical hassle for sports other than football. I understand that geography will play less of a role in conferences going forward but you don't want to look like the Big East where they add San Diego St and Boise.

[sussudio]

I am for picking the ACC apart take Fla.St, Clemson, Va tech and maybe Miami... It would be nice beating up on the canes once in awhile.

[jkjsooner]

I'll say it again. How much is adding the media markets of DC and NYC really worth? Sure they're big markets but college sports barely registers on the radar there except for transplants who are following their own teams.

I just don't think those markets bring in the number of viewers people think they do. Maybe the B1G wants to turn viewers in those cities into college fans.

[PLaw]

Boren has hitched the Schooner to Deloss's and Bevo's butt. I think he saw what happened to Arky when they bolted the SWC and headed to the SEC. They lost their recruiting presence in Texas and the rest is history. The big question is would Texas still continue the RRR should OU go someplace else? I don't think we could withstand losing that rivalary, especially since nebbish died.

Bottom line is the landscape will continue to change. Best deal at this point would be Clemson, FSU, Ga Tech, and either Louisville, Va Tech, or UVA merging into the Big 12.

How would a 15 team three division conference work?

The SWC division - UT, TTU, TCU, Baylor, Houston

The Big 8 division - OU, OSU, KSU, KU, ISU

The Atlantic division - FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech, Va Tech, WVU
The conference championship would be the highest BCS ranked division winner would play the winner of a "play in" game from the other two divisions.

I think that would be fun, stable, and generate alot of money while going head to head with the SEC in their recruiting backyard.

[jkjsooner]

I am for picking the ACC apart take Fla.St, Clemson, Va tech and maybe Miami... It would be nice beating up on the canes once in awhile.

UNC would be nice for bball but mainly because I live in Chapel Hill. What about GT? They're traditionally better than VT.

[Mac94]

PLaw -

Inovative ... like the idea. Do know that if NC St and VT come into play the SEC will press hard for them and the potential SEC Network and geography could work the SEC's favor. Still ... keep in WV instead of VT and replace NCSt with Miami and same idea works.

[PLaw]

PLaw -

Inovative ... like the idea. Do know that if NC St and VT come into play the SEC will press hard for them and the potential SEC Network and geography could work the SEC's favor. Still ... keep in WV instead of VT and replace NCSt with Miami and same idea works.

Yeah, it's been a long couple of weeks - meant to have WVU instead of NC State, but I like what you're saying better.

[bluedogok]

I'll say it again. How much is adding the media markets of DC and NYC really worth? Sure they're big markets but college sports barely registers on the radar there except for transplants who are following their own teams.

I just don't think those markets bring in the number of viewers people think they do. Maybe the B1G wants to turn viewers in those cities into college fans.
It has nothing to do with fans, the only thing that it has to do with are number of TV sets for ad revenue and cable subscribers which is how ESPN, CBS, Fox and NBC get paid on the cable side. They don't care about fans actually watching games, on the screens in those markets are a bonus. The B1G only care about getting subscriber revenue from the cable companies for the BTN that they stand to get from those markets, some of which they are not currently in.

[ouflak]

It has nothing to do with fans, the only thing that it has to do with are number of TV sets for ad revenue and cable subscribers which is how ESPN, CBS, Fox and NBC get paid on the cable side. They don't care about fans actually watching games, on the screens in those markets are a bonus. The B1G only care about getting subscriber revenue from the cable companies for the BTN that they stand to get from those markets, some of which they are not currently in.

Exactly. Keep in mind that this is not about a team's potential to be successful, or even about their recent/current/past success. This is all about potential revenues. The BTN contracts in place in the locations of New York, New Jersey and Maryland will give the conference an immediate and sizable bump in revenue and profit. And even when the time for renegotiation of those contracts comes up, and Maryland/Rutgers are still fairly modest in their relative success, the B1G and BTN will still be in a strong position to negotiate a favorable and highly profitable deal.

West Virginia barely adds anything in comparison, and TCU adds nothing in this regards (OU and Texas and the Pro sports already dominate that market). Since we don't have a conference network, we are in no position to negotiate the kind of deals that the PAC and B1G have negotiated, and the SEC will shortly be able to negotiate. So the only options for us are to add BIG NAME programs that will generously augment our current media contracts now and going forward. Only a few schools realistically could do that, and none of those are Louisville or Boise State or BYU or Cincinnati. If the conference had a billion dollars in discretionary loose change laying around, sure I guess we could add one or more of these schools, pump money in and hope that the investment pays off eventually. But we just aren't in a position to gamble on a teams potential. They have to bring something to the table RIGHT NOW. TCU and West Virginia allowed us atleast keep our basic contracts in place as a platform for further negotiations, so they had immediate value and have some residual value going forward.

Unless we get a conference network and everybody agrees to play nicely together with their Tier III, our only options are home-run additions, or simply waiting things out and hoping that that concept of individual schools being able to profit generously from their own Tier 3 stuff really works out. It's clear which direction the PAC, B1G and SEC are going. The ACC confuses me. I don't exactly know what they are thinking.

[Mac94]

The ACC confuses me. I don't what they are thinking.

They are fighting to survive. They've gone to 14 (now back to 13) and expanded their footprint in efforts to stave off collapse. They've looked at things from more of a basketball perspective ... and considering the North Carolina mafia is runnign that show that might be expected ... but they are trying ot put up a fight.

If we are going to 4 mega conferences ... it seems the SEC, Big 10, and Pac-12 are three of those slots. That leaves the ACC and Big-12 fighting for long term viability. At leas the ACC is fighting and trying to survive ... wish the Big-12 would try something other than stand pat with the status quo. The ACC has cracks that could be exploited to the benifit of the Big-12. I think PLaw gave an interesting concept for the Big-12 to persue .... with the ACC emphasis on round ball ... target the football powers. Obviously with Maryland, a founding ACC member, bolting ... all's not well out east.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Um West Virgina, and TCU are clearly better additions then Maryland, and Rutgers. Also West Virginia, and TCU are not mediocre football programs both teams were coming off conference championships last year, and have been successful for a lot of years now.

If the Big 10 can add Maryland, and Rutgers to get to 14 surely we can find 2 more teams to get to 12.

They are not better. Both are 2-5 in conference now that they aren't playing schedules padded with New Mexico and halfass Syracuse.

Screw West Virginia, TCU, and the idiots that allowed them into the conference.

But, the larger point is, if we simply accept mediocrity, as we have with West Virginia and TCU, just pick any damn school out there. It's been obvious since last year's fiasco of an attempt to get into the Pac-12 that Texas' DeLoss Dodds calls the shots for the conference.

Therefore, after DeLoss calls the Big 12 commissioner and tells him who we want, that's what we'll get. It won't be anyone who comes close to threatening UT politically or too often on the field of play.

So, that means taking on underachievers and johnny-come-lately nobodys - Louisville, Cincinnati, Clemson...it's all puke. The most puke part of all is that we sit and let the shots be called for us.

What the Pac-12 did when it rejected us (thankfully) is told us the real big picture - as much as Texas sucks and underachieves on the field, conference want their ability to draw money and television market.

Oklahoma television market is dick, so we will glide along with the leaders unless and until we get a president and athletic director with a f*cking backbone to get OU into a better conference than one that his penisaurus programs like Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia, Kansas State...basically, the whole damn Big 12.

[ouflak]

Oklahoma television market is dick,

Not true. Oklahoma has Dallas/Ft Worth.

[badger]

Joe C had some interesting things to say on conference reallignment here. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20121121_29_B1_NORMAN950685) I especially like what he said on the numbers game:

"The number itself isn't the driver of conference expansion," Castiglione said. "It's whether or not expansion brings increased value. And value doesn't always have to be defined in dollars and cents. There are many other value propositions that aren't solely related to the bottom line."

Don't worry about getting up to 14. There are at least four schools out there that would join the Big 12 in a heartbeat or less. We have to worry about quality over quantity... something that the B1G didn't do with Maryland and Rutgers... or the Pac10/12 with Colorado... or the Big lEast with many of their choices...

[tycat947]

Joe C had some interesting things to say on conference reallignment here. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20121121_29_B1_NORMAN950685) I especially like what he said on the numbers game:


Don't worry about getting up to 14. There are at least four schools out there that would join the Big 12 in a heartbeat or less. We have to worry about quality over quantity... something that the B1G didn't do with Maryland and Rutgers... or the Pac10/12 with Colorado... or the Big lEast with many of their choices...

Or Utah or Mizzou!

[Scott D]

BYU would be easy, afterall we already let one school that thinks too highly of itself have it's own tv channel and keep the revenue from it to itself.

[SoonerorLater]

They are not better. Both are 2-5 in conference now that they aren't playing schedules padded with New Mexico and halfass Syracuse.

Screw West Virginia, TCU, and the idiots that allowed them into the conference.

But, the larger point is, if we simply accept mediocrity, as we have with West Virginia and TCU, just pick any damn school out there. It's been obvious since last year's fiasco of an attempt to get into the Pac-12 that Texas' DeLoss Dodds calls the shots for the conference.

Therefore, after DeLoss calls the Big 12 commissioner and tells him who we want, that's what we'll get. It won't be anyone who comes close to threatening UT politically or too often on the field of play.

So, that means taking on underachievers and johnny-come-lately nobodys - Louisville, Cincinnati, Clemson...it's all puke. The most puke part of all is that we sit and let the shots be called for us.

What the Pac-12 did when it rejected us (thankfully) is told us the real big picture - as much as Texas sucks and underachieves on the field, conference want their ability to draw money and television market.

Oklahoma television market is dick, so we will glide along with the leaders unless and until we get a president and athletic director with a f*cking backbone to get OU into a better conference than one that his penisaurus programs like Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia, Kansas State...basically, the whole damn Big 12.


Teams like Ohio St, Alabama and USC aren't available. WV and TCU are good adds. The Big 12 had to add a couple of teams or die. What conference is better than the Big 12 now? Just the SEC and they have some bottom dwellers too. I know everybody wants "The University of's" when the conference adds teams but that just isn't going to be happening.

Also Oklahoma is a good market. I wish I could find the link but two of the top 5 per capita college football viewing markets in the country are in Oklahoma. I think Tulsa was number 2 and OKC was number 5. Birmingham was number 1. I figured it up at the time but the Tulsa market roughly equaled the Kansas City market and OKC roughly equaled the Denver market for sets tuned in at any given time to college football

[Tear Down This Wall]

Teams like Ohio St, Alabama and USC aren't available. WV and TCU are good adds. The Big 12 had to add a couple of teams or die. What conference is better than the Big 12 now? Just the SEC and they have some bottom dwellers too. I know everybody wants "The University of's" when the conference adds teams but that just isn't going to be happening.

Also Oklahoma is a good market. I wish I could find the link but two of the top 5 per capita college football viewing markets in the country are in Oklahoma. I think Tulsa was number 2 and OKC was number 5. Birmingham was number 1. I figured it up at the time but the Tulsa market roughly equaled the Kansas City market and OKC roughly equaled the Denver market for sets tuned in at any given time to college football

Yes, but the SEC was trying to expand, and we could have been in on it instead of Mizzou, and probably over Texas A&M.

The money would not have been that much different. The difference is, the way things line up here versus there, is we pretend to have some muscle in the Big 12. After the Pac-12 thing, I'm not sure why people still believe that.

I'm sorry, but for older fans like me, it's difficult to imagine athletes not wanting to compete with the best. Coaches, as former athletes, as well. Ditto athletic directors.

SEC would have been better schedules and competition. We missed out on it. Didn't even try for it.

[tycat947]

BYU would be easy, afterall we already let one school that thinks too highly of itself have it's own tv channel and keep the revenue from it to itself.

We don't want nor need BYU! No one else wants them either or they would be gobbled up by now. Pac12 would have picked up BYU over Utah if they were a great get. We have 2 more private schools than we need now!

[Tear Down This Wall]

We don't want nor need BYU! No one else wants them either or they would be gobbled up by now. Pac12 would have picked up BYU over Utah if they were a great get. We have 2 more private schools than we need now!

Amen!

[Whet]

FSU and Clemson will be the next additions to the Big XII - notice the 3 open dates in 2013? Two of those dates will be filled by FSU and Clemson.

[Harry Beanbag]

FSU and Clemson will be the next additions to the Big XII - notice the 3 open dates in 2013? Two of those dates will be filled by FSU and Clemson.


14 game regular season?

[ouflak]

14 game regular season?

We'd have to petition the NCAA to allow it, but that would be something. My biggest concerns would be injuries and fatigue.

[Scott D]

We don't want nor need BYU! No one else wants them either or they would be gobbled up by now. Pac12 would have picked up BYU over Utah if they were a great get. We have 2 more private schools than we need now!

that was less a pro byu post and more a shot at that school down in austin.

[tycat947]

that was less a pro byu post and more a shot at that school down in austin.

Sorry, I'm slow! I just cringe anytime I see BYU mentioned anywhere.

[Sabanball]

It's all the SEC's fault, damnit!!

[bluedogok]

We don't want nor need BYU! No one else wants them either or they would be gobbled up by now. Pac12 would have picked up BYU over Utah if they were a great get. We have 2 more private schools than we need now!
Some members of the Pac 12 do not want any religious based institutions. Since USC broke from the Methodist church in the 50's there are no longer any "church schools" in the Pac 12. Baylor or TCU would face the same kind of resistance, I think even Notre Dame would as well.