The Will of the people has spoken, and America Died. The End of an Empire

[champions77]

The Will of the People Has Spoken, and America Died
The End of an Empire




Our Constitutional Republic died a peaceful death on November 6, 2012. Having
reached the point of no return in a comatose state after years of progressive
and illegal immigration assaults, the fabric of conservative society is now
completely unraveled and Uncle Sam’s America is no more.

The United States of America is now relegated to the dust bin of history as a
“has been” empire. The Shining City on the Hill, the hope of so many millions
since July 4, 1776, no longer exists. What rises from the ashes is a country
that few of us will recognize, like, or learn to accept submissively.

After 236 years of existence, a new country emerges today, run by secular
progressives who rejected our Constitution, what we stand for, and who we are as
a nation. The Supreme Court will be forever altered after its last conservative
members will be replaced by the liberal academics who call
themselves “progressives.” The rule of law will be implemented by
Executive Orders, making Congress irrelevant.

The communist motto “Forward” that resonated with so many ignorant Americans
will plunge us into many years of darkness from which we will never be able to
recover. We have proven our Founding Fathers right, they did give us a
Constitutional Republic and we were unable to maintain it.

The forces of the failed communist fundamental transformation that were driven
underground in many places around the world, resurfaced with a vengeance in the
United States and have now taken over.

How long we will still have freedom of speech, movement, assembly, and control
of our private property remains to be seen. Faith and churches will be driven
underground; allowing secularism to prosper and take deep roots among
the progressives whose God is Mother Earth.

The welfare-dependent Americans, unions, and illegal aliens have chosen for the
rest of us the dark path of serfdom to big government and to socialist utopia.

Who would have guessed that the very people who were complaining that the
government is not extricating them from disaster or giving them the help they
needed in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, would vote for the very politicians
who turned their backs on needy Americans after the lights went dark when the
political photo opportunities ended?

Who would have guessed that Americans were as ignorant and irresponsible as to
choose fiscal destruction over fiscal sanity for their children and
grandchildren, secularism and communism over faith, dependence over personal
responsibility and self-reliance?

Americans have been protesting for the last four years the dismal state of the
economy and the direction of our country, the corruption of our politicians, and
the loss of personal and economic freedom.

Rallies in support of conservatism overwhelmed venues for Mitt Romney while
rallies for our bumbling President became scarcer and scarcer. Yet,
miraculously, at the ballot box, our President won all over the country.

We lost seats in the Senate. Americans chose liars and cheats to be their
Senators and Representatives, rejecting those who protected the Constitution.
The candidate from Massachusetts who claimed direct American Indian lineage to
Pocahontas is now a Senator, having defeated Scott Brown. Representative Allen
West lost his seat by a narrow margin to the infamous Wasserman Schultz from
Florida.

Americans chose high unemployment, reduction of our military, communist
indoctrination of their children, and loss of personal freedoms unlike we have
never seen before in this country.

I am saddened by the loss of millions and millions of American soldiers who have
died to preserve freedom yet we lost it on November 6, 2012. Those buried in
cemeteries around the world and at Arlington must be rolling in their graves
today. We shamelessly allowed their sacrifice of blood and treasure to go
in vain. We have no honor because we let down all the soldiers who fought in
recent times and returned home limbless with lives shattered from physical and
mental wounds of war.

I mourn today the loss of my adopted country. I have fought hard over the last
four years to prevent its overt and accelerated destruction but the darker
forces stronger than many of us have overcome concerted efforts by millions of
Americans to maintain the Republic. Mediocrity, sloth, godlessness,
dependence, cowardice, using the law selectively or ignoring it, and
hopeless corruption will define the new country. Only God can save us now with
his mercy and grace.



Do you lefties really know where you have taken this country? Did you really hate it so much you were willing to go along with Obama's promise to "Fundamentally change this country?"

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Should be a sticky, for as long as the internet is allowed to be used by individuals.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Here's an anonymous(author not mentioned) email I received from a friend:

Congratulations to the Democrats and Young People! You now own it. The next terrorist attack you own it. Can't get a job after graduation, you own it. Sky rocketing energy prices due to Obama's EPA shutting down the energy producing states, you own it. A nuclear Iran, you own it. Bowing to the Soviet Union, you own it. Another severe recession, you own it. A volatile border with Mexico, you own it. Trouble getting good health care, you own it. Higher heath insurance costs and health care costs, you own it. No budget, you own it. Our allies mistrust, you own it. Another trillion of debt, you own it. More Benghazi situations, you own it. No one willing to join the military, you own it. Trouble getting to loan to buy a home, you own it. More dependency on food stamps, you own it. Trouble finding good employment, you own it. Several part time jobs instead of a good job, you own it. A World Government, you own it. The UN governing the United States instead of ourselves, you own it. A Senate that will not bring any legislation to the table rather it is "Dead on Arrival", you own it. China controlling our world trade trampling all over us, you own it. Loss of our freedoms as we have known it in the past, you own it. A dictatorship instead of a democracy that follows the Constituion, you own it. Less take home pay and higher living costs, you own it. Driving a car that looks like a toy, you own it. More government corruption and lies, you own it. More toleration of extreme and fanatical Islamists, you own it. Terrorist attacks called work place incidents, you own it. Your revenge instead of love of country, you own it. President George Bush is out of it now, and there is not another good man for you to villify and lie about. In a way I am relieved that another good man will not be blamed when it was impossible to clean up this mess you voted for. Have a good day. God bless the United States and Texas! God is our hope now.

[SicEmBaylor]

1)If the 'American Empire' died then good riddance. We were never ever supposed to be an empire.

2)Our Republic died more than 140 years ago and was replaced by an empire whose loss you lamented in the thread title.

3)Let's not go overboard here.

[Sooner5030]

meh.....it could be said that things really changed in the 60's. That's when the wars on poverty and drugs really began.....thanks to Ds & Rs.

Didn't Nixon actually start the DEA? Not sure and too lazy to google it but I thought his administration was pushing it.

Others claim that the income tax, federal reserve and WWI put us on a path of no return.

As depressing as it may be....I think those of us that are libertarian leaning have to acknowledge that the majority of our society prefers security to freedom. The only thing that we have on our side is that the current forms of government are unsustainable. Also, there are plenty of ways to live a libertarian lifestyle in the US. You just have to adjust to living in very rural areas and in states that do not meddle in local codes.

But I disagree with the OP. We were on this path regardless of who was elected.......its not the politicians.....it's the citizens and their demands. We have a "free lunch" government, economy and society. Moms gonna fix all soon.

[Soonerjeepman]

I do pray to God every night that this isn't the end, unfortunately I do think we have definitely turned down that fork in the road.

The fact that the whole attitude of redistribution of wealth, gov handouts, no responsibility (pregnancies, drugs, affairs, jobs, etc) permeates this country now more than ever. The hippies of the 60's are now in charge, THAT is scary.

I feel for my kids and unborn grand kids, if my kids so choose to have kids.

I know the libs on here continue to say "you believe that gloom and doom bs"...yes I do. It may take 5, 10, 15 yrs to really take hold, we will see.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

If she hates what America has become, she can always go back to Romania.

[rock on sooner]

Yup, Nixon signed the DEA into existence in 1973. Biggest issue that I have
in the anonymous email is the premise that George W Bush was a good man.
Some of the examples given are a stretch but the premise of Obama owning
those things is pretty much on. I would advance the idea that a recovering
economy, we own it. The end of Afghan war, we own it. Some control of
Wall Street and big banks, we own it. A closed doughnut hole, we own it.
Spending being gotten under control, we own it. Restructured tax codes, we
own it. Deficits coming down, we own it. Unemployment coming down, we
own it. Energy self sufficient, we own it..North America providing its own oil,
we own it. More off shore (Pacific and Atlantic) drilling, we own it. (Okie52,
ya listening?:cheerful:) Stabilized and growing alternative energy industry,
we own it. Of course, blessing Texas, well, you can own that one!

[FaninAma]

1)If the 'American Empire' died then good riddance. We were never ever supposed to be an empire.

2)Our Republic died more than 140 years ago and was replaced by an empire whose loss you lamented in the thread title.

3)Let's not go overboard here.

Actually it took a a few more assualts to finish the job. Those occured in 1913, throughout the 1940's and in 1964.

[okie52]

Yup, Nixon signed the DEA into existence in 1973. Biggest issue that I have
in the anonymous email is the premise that George W Bush was a good man.
Some of the examples given are a stretch but the premise of Obama owning
those things is pretty much on. I would advance the idea that a recovering
economy, we own it. The end of Afghan war, we own it. Some control of
Wall Street and big banks, we own it. A closed doughnut hole, we own it.
Spending being gotten under control, we own it. Restructured tax codes, we
own it. Deficits coming down, we own it. Unemployment coming down, we
own it. Energy self sufficient, we own it..North America providing its own oil,
we own it. More off shore (Pacific and Atlantic) drilling, we own it. (Okie52,
ya listening?:cheerful:) Stabilized and growing alternative energy industry,
we own it. Of course, blessing Texas, well, you can own that one!


More offshore drilling in the Atlantic and pacific in the next 4 years? That's a good one.

[TUSooner]

Absurd and Pathetic. That's what this thread is.

[rock on sooner]

More offshore drilling in the Atlantic and pacific in the next 4 years? That's a good one.

I was checking to see if you were awake. Of course, it takes years
from the time permits are issued to sink a bit, but it is POSSIBLE
some permits could be issued.

[rock on sooner]

Absurd and Pathetic. That's what this thread is.

Don't disagree with you, but felt the arguments put out there shouldn't
be left unanswered.

[okie52]

I was checking to see if you were awake. Of course, it takes years
from the time permits are issued to sink a bit, but it is POSSIBLE
some permits could be issued.

Not during the next 4 years...obama's already put the Atlantic off limits until 2017 for further "study". The pacific isn't even open to discussion.

[rock on sooner]

Not during the next 4 years...obama's already put the Atlantic off limits until 2017 for further "study". The pacific isn't even open to discussion.

Wasn't sure of his dates...maybe he'll change his mind since there
is a decent chance we can get to little or no Middle East oil.

[okie52]

Wasn't sure of his dates...maybe he'll change his mind since there
is a decent chance we can get to little or no Middle East oil.

There is that chance but we are going to have increase production by 4,000,000 barrels to get there.

[TUSooner]

Don't disagree with you, but felt the arguments put out there shouldn't
be left unanswered.
Sure. Its not all hysteria. I'm just too tired - and happy despite it all -- to enter the fray. Carry on, sir.

[Ton Loc]

Damn, sounds like a bunch of whiny quitters in here. All I see is a bunch of complaining and finger pointing at each other. Far as I can tell that's never going to stop nor has it ever fixed or changed anything. So what are your options? I don't see a lot of action, but plenty of complaining. I'm just wondering who you all are waiting on to fix this supposed downfall. I'll continue to depend on myself. Its worked so far, regardless of the government or what moron was in charge.

[rock on sooner]

There is that chance but we are going to have increase production by 4,000,000 barrels to get there.

Canada, U.S, Mexico, Brazil and maybe Argentina together, if they
all ramped up exploration and production could be done. Do you
know if there has been any efforts on the Pacific side of South America
for exploration?

[Skysooner]

Canada, U.S, Mexico, Brazil and maybe Argentina together, if they
all ramped up exploration and production could be done. Do you
know if there has been any efforts on the Pacific side of South America
for exploration?

It can be done in North America no problem as long as oil prices stay at around $90-$100. We should be able to bring on 2 MMBOPD this year and that doesn't include heavy SAGD oil from Canada which is primarily dependent on the XL pipeline. This is without increasing the drilling offshore although there will be a point at which offshore drilling will be needed to stave off declines. It takes years to bring the big reserves online from offshore, so Okie52 is right in that exploration has to start now.

[okie52]

It can be done in North America no problem as long as oil prices stay at around $90-$100. We should be able to bring on 2 MMBOPD this year and that doesn't include heavy SAGD oil from Canada which is primarily dependent on the XL pipeline. This is without increasing the drilling offshore although there will be a point at which offshore drilling will be needed to stave off declines. It takes years to bring the big reserves online from offshore, so Okie52 is right in that exploration has to start now.

2,000,000 seems awfully high. I thought we were increasing by about 470,000 barrels a year. Then, of course, we are going to have to continue to drill to offset rather steep declines.

[rock on sooner]

2,000,000 seems awfully high. I thought we were increasing by about 470,000 barrels a year. Then, of course, we are going to have to continue to drill to offset rather steep declines.

Neither of you guys in the know have said anything about the Pacific side
of South America. Do either of you know if there's been any effort there?

[okie52]

Neither of you guys in the know have said anything about the Pacific side
of South America. Do either of you know if there's been any effort there?

I dont know about it rock on.

[rock on sooner]

I dont know about it rock on.

"K thanks...seems like that part of the ocean is usually pretty calm,
it'd be worth a look see, but whadda I know?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Actually it took a a few more assualts to finish the job. Those occured in 1913, throughout the 1940's and in 1964.also the 1930's as well as the WWII years(FDR, and his statism), and the elections of '06, '08 and '12 put the final nails in the coffin.(IMHO, of course)

It's going to get very hairy from now on.

[Midtowner]

Absurd and Pathetic. That's what this thread is.

Jesus Christ... we're talking about a 5% or so tax hike for money earned after $250K and these folks are whining about a fork in the road and Communism. What hysteria.

They're whining about a President who won by "gift giving" when their own guy was promoting a 20% tax cut for everyone and increasing military spending dramatically with no specific revenue enhancements.

The country is not lost, it's just not going the way American Crossroads was trying to pay for it to go.

[Skysooner]

2,000,000 seems awfully high. I thought we were increasing by about 470,000 barrels a year. Then, of course, we are going to have to continue to drill to offset rather steep declines.

Correct. It is the 18% declines that cause issues. This is just 2 MMBOPD of new production, and it can absolutely be done. We did almost 1.6 last year.

[Skysooner]

Neither of you guys in the know have said anything about the Pacific side
of South America. Do either of you know if there's been any effort there?

Honestly, I don't know the geology on that side of South America. Brazil is so good, because they have those slow rivers that dump shale and sand out into the ocean. It is a withdrawal basin that just fills in and sinks. Those are generally very good oil and natural gas producing areas.

[diverdog]

Jesus Christ... we're talking about a 5% or so tax hike for money earned after $250K and these folks are whining about a fork in the road and Communism. What hysteria.

They're whining about a President who won by "gift giving" when their own guy was promoting a 20% tax cut for everyone and increasing military spending dramatically with no specific revenue enhancements.

The country is not lost, it's just not going the way American Crossroads was trying to pay for it to go.

Never mind they are paying less than when they were under Reagan. No one was bitching about communism when he raised taxes.

[Sooner5030]

Never mind they are paying less than when they were under Reagan. No one was bitching about communism when he raised taxes.

Taxes are not the problem.....they are not the solution either. SPENDING has been the major problem. And it's not just DoD......4 other agencies grew at a faster rate than DoD over the last ten years. In fact FY 13 DoD will actually have a $60 billion decrease from FY12.

Intervention has increased while individual liberties/freedoms continue to slowly erode.........all in the name of saving us from ourselves and making Merika better.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Taxes are not the problem.....they are not the solution either. SPENDING has been the major problem. And it's not just DoD......4 other agencies grew at a faster rate than DoD over the last ten years. In fact FY 13 DoD will actually have a $60 billion decrease from FY12.

Intervention has increased while individual liberties/freedoms continue to slowly erode.........all in the name of saving us from ourselves and making Merika better.Our board Libs: "LALALALALALALALALALAL.. I can't HEARRRRRR YOU! LALALALALALALA" ad nauseum! Anybody surprised? I would hope not.

[diverdog]

Taxes are not the problem.....they are not the solution either. SPENDING has been the major problem. And it's not just DoD......4 other agencies grew at a faster rate than DoD over the last ten years. In fact FY 13 DoD will actually have a $60 billion decrease from FY12.

Intervention has increased while individual liberties/freedoms continue to slowly erode.........all in the name of saving us from ourselves and making Merika better.

Taxes are the problem and so is spending. We need to increase taxes and reduce spending.

[FaninAma]

I heard Obama has already sigmed an executive order making 2 million more acres of federal land off limits to drilling and fracking.

[soonercruiser]

Jesus Christ...
The country is not lost, it's just not going the way American Crossroads was trying to pay for it to go.

Please leave Christ out of it Mid!
I hope you will see his response post some day.

BTW Lefties....how much did George Soros pay to "get his way"???..SOCIALISM!
:distant:

[soonercruiser]

Taxes are the problem and so is spending. We need to increase taxes and reduce spending.

Duh!
Out of control social spending is the problem!

[Midtowner]

Please leave Christ out of it Mid!
I hope you will see his response post some day.

BTW Lefties....how much did George Soros pay to "get his way"???..SOCIALISM!
:distant:

A lot less than the Koch brothers.

And that gladdens me.

[C&CDean]

Alls I know is that if the big O wants a piece of my little fiefdom, he better call up Seal team 6, 7, 8, and 9.

Let's panic less please. It makes us look like them fercryin'outloud. And them ain't pretty.

[rock on sooner]

A lot less than the Koch brothers.

And that gladdens me.

Koch Bros is small in compare to Adelson Not only that but Perry
and Andersen in Tx and all the unidentified $$ that Rove pulled into
Crossroads. He is SILL ticked at his polling folks that missed on OH
and FL, in particular, 'cause he figured that OH was his, with all the $$
spent there. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!....imo.

[rock on sooner]

Duh!
Out of control social spending is the problem!

Know what, Cruiser, depends on how you define social spending!
If you're talking about SS, then I submit that SS has NO drag
on the deficit. If you're talking about Medicare/Medicaid, then
all you ned to do is take out all the insurance cos/providers that
keep screwing the system and you'll be just fine there. Everyone keeps
calling these programs entitlements. That sux. All the folkis pay into
the program and only ask in return what their share is.

Now, to SS, have the gov't keep their hands off it and there is no probem.
The gov't already owes SS $2.6 Trillion and will never repay. How would
you handle that kind of outstanding receiveable? That's what I thought!

[diverdog]

Know what, Cruiser, depends on how you define social spending!
If you're talking about SS, then I submit that SS has NO drag
on the deficit. If you're talking about Medicare/Medicaid, then
all you ned to do is take out all the insurance cos/providers that
keep screwing the system and you'll be just fine there. Everyone keeps
calling these programs entitlements. That sux. All the folkis pay into
the program and only ask in return what their share is.

Now, to SS, have the gov't keep their hands off it and there is no probem.
The gov't already owes SS $2.6 Trillion and will never repay. How would
you handle that kind of outstanding receiveable? That's what I thought!

You know he is a triple dipper? He just doesn't think he is part of the problem.

[Midtowner]

The paranoia is just amazing. My folks' best friends are selling their McMansion to move out to the sticks and, I kid you not, build a self-sufficient walled compound. More money than sense I guess.

[champions77]

What is amazing is the people on here that continue to believe and blindly support BHO, even after the poor job he has done the first four years. But somehow this blind faith has them convinced it will be better in the future. He continues to propel this country toward a top down, all good comes from the feds, virtue destroying culture, where Santa Clause can make your life easier, if only we can continue to take from the makers, despite the fact that additional taxes collected from them would only account for less than 1/10th of the current federal deficit.
I wonder if any of you stop to think where this path will lead?

In the last 30 years, the percent of Americans that rely on some form of government assistance has gone from 30% to now 50%, with a President who has yet to state that having 50 Million Americans on food stamps is unacceptable. And do you really feel that his attacks on the private sector will produce more jobs, or less? At what point in time, since you are owned by the Central planners, does the government step in and tell you to go to work, specifying what you will do and when you will do it? Sound crazy? At some point in time, SOMEONE is going to have to do the work, right?

[JohnnyMack]

So my wife made this amazing buffalo chicken dip yesterday. It was really good. Although she bought some kind of healthy *** chips to go with it. I wish we had some Fritos instead.

[JohnnyMack]

What is amazing is the people on here that continue to believe and blindly support BHO, even after the poor job he has done the first four years. But somehow this blind faith has them convinced it will be better in the future. He continues to propel this country toward a top down, all good comes from the feds, virtue destroying culture, where Santa Clause can make your life easier, if only we can continue to take from the makers, despite the fact that additional taxes collected from them would only account for less than 1/10th of the current federal deficit.
I wonder if any of you stop to think where this path will lead?

In the last 30 years, the percent of Americans that rely on some form of government assistance has gone from 30% to now 50%, with a President who has yet to state that having 50 Million Americans on food stamps is unacceptable. And do you really feel that his attacks on the private sector will produce more jobs, or less? At what point in time, since you are owned by the Central planners, does the government step in and tell you to go to work, specifying what you will do and when you will do it? Sound crazy? At some point in time, SOMEONE is going to have to do the work, right?

Congratulations. I think you've regurgitated every single one of Rush Limbaugh's talkng points in this concise post. Good jorb.

[C&CDean]

So my wife made this amazing buffalo chicken dip yesterday. It was really good. Although she bought some kind of healthy *** chips to go with it. I wish we had some Fritos instead.

Fritos don't go with buffalo chicken dip ya ****ing fag.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I was figuring dean would post something about hostess since he is all into chocolate ding dongs.

[C&CDean]

I was figuring dean would post something about hostess since he is all into chocolate ding dongs.

Only yours my sweet. Only yours.

[JohnnyMack]

Fritos don't go with buffalo chicken dip ya ****ing fag.

The **** they don't. What do you put it on, STEPs ****?

[C&CDean]

Celery. Carrots. Crackers. Tortilla chips.

Fritos go in chili.

Steps **** goes with everything.

[champions77]

Congratulations. I think you've regurgitated every single one of Rush Limbaugh's talkng points in this concise post. Good jorb.

Rush? it's just common sense hotrod, or do you not know what that means? You tell me what I have said that is not so? While you are at it, tell me what policies that BHO has brought forth that will involk some confidence in this economy and remove the uncertainty that still exists almost four years after he has taken offfice? Since the first day in office, he has done everything to discredit the private sector while strengthening the public sector and the unions. Not exactly a precription for economic growth, and growth is the only way we will ever get the tax revenues that will be required to get us out of this debt mess we are in. Keep assaulting the makers and you will wake up and there will be fewer and fewer makers to increase taxes on. Then what will you do? It is a failed concept, too bad you are either too ignorant to know better or too smitten with Obama to question him.

[JohnnyMack]

Rush? it's just common sense hotrod, or do you not know what that means? You tell me what I have said that is not so? While you are at it, tell me what policies that BHO has brought forth that will involk some confidence in this economy and remove the uncertainty that still exists almost four years after he has taken offfice? Since the first day in office, he has done everything to discredit the private sector while strengthening the public sector and the unions. Not exactly a precription for economic growth, and growth is the only way we will ever get the tax revenues that will be required to get us out of this debt mess we are in. Keep assaulting the makers and you will wake up and there will be fewer and fewer makers to increase taxes on. Then what will you do? It is a failed concept, too bad you are either too ignorant to know better or too smitten with Obama to question him.

As long as we still have an incompetent congress acting like petulant 3rd graders and Wall Street is allowed to drag its collective ballsack across the face of America with no fear of reprisals it really doesn't matter who's POTUS. So I'll go with the guy who's not part of a weird cult.

[champions77]

As long as we still have an incompetent congress acting like petulant 3rd graders and Wall Street is allowed to drag its collective ballsack across the face of America with no fear of reprisals it really doesn't matter who's POTUS. So I'll go with the guy who's not part of a weird cult.

So now it's all on Congress? So BHO who basically did what he wanted the first two years, while reminding any Repubs that "I won the election" along the way, if they showed any push back to his policies, is not culpable, at all? There is so much commerce that falls outside of Wall Street, but you continue to ignore that segment, and say it is all on Wall Street.
So who did you think came up with the failed idea of the "Community Reinvestment Act" Wall Street?

Sad, all on Wall Street with apparently no disdain for the role that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played in the whole sordid affair. And poor old George W gets the blame for all of it. Dems had nothing to do with it meltdown in 2008?

Wow

[Midtowner]

Rush? it's just common sense hotrod, or do you not know what that means? You tell me what I have said that is not so? While you are at it, tell me what policies that BHO has brought forth that will involk some confidence in this economy and remove the uncertainty that still exists almost four years after he has taken offfice? Since the first day in office, he has done everything to discredit the private sector while strengthening the public sector and the unions. Not exactly a precription for economic growth, and growth is the only way we will ever get the tax revenues that will be required to get us out of this debt mess we are in. Keep assaulting the makers and you will wake up and there will be fewer and fewer makers to increase taxes on. Then what will you do? It is a failed concept, too bad you are either too ignorant to know better or too smitten with Obama to question him.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you my exhibit "A" to Conservative bubble thinking. Let's break this down, shall we?


Rush? it's just common sense hotrod, or do you not know what that means?

Because obviously Liberals have no common sense. It's just "common sense" that if you let corporations do whatever the heck they want to that we'll all prosper, right? Rising tide, all boats, etc.? Right? If it's so common sense, explain how wealth has become so concentrated at the very tippy top of the population. You say "makers" v. "takers," it rhymes, it's cute and all, but it's starting to look more like good 'ol Old World aristocracy vs. the bourgeois. There's really nothing "common sense" about either liberal or conservative positions. Taken to the extreme, both have proven ruinous.


While you are at it, tell me what policies that BHO has brought forth that will involk some confidence in this economy and remove the uncertainty that still exists almost four years after he has taken offfice?

Aside from the spelling errors (were you drunk when you posted this?), TARP brought lots of confidence back to the economy, the uncertainty which currently exists is a bipartisan issue caused by both parties, i.e., Republicans not budging on revenue increases for their protected aristocracy and protecting unneeded military programs and the Liberals not bending on immediate cuts to social entitlement/welfare spending and in other areas in an urgent manner, i.e., not 10 years from now. This issue lies at the feet of both parties.

Now, as far as providing certainty and protection, the consumer protection agency was created to do that, but Republicans have been attacking it from all angles. That kind of blew up in their faces when Warren was elected to the Senate when she could have just been a Department head who would have disappeared 4 years from now. That consumer protection agency would have originally been designed to protect us from the financial trickeration occurring in the financial sector, but it has in many respects been neutered.

Sure, it's not something which would have fostered immediate growth, but it would have helped us to ensure our growth is sustainable and not subject to boom and bust cycles based upon questionable securities.


he only way we will ever get the tax revenues that will be required to get us out of this debt mess we are in

Not true. Raising taxes on money earned in excess of $250K will earn significant money right now. I'd also like to lump capital gains in with that number, but we can't always get what we want.


Keep assaulting the makers and you will wake up and there will be fewer and fewer makers to increase taxes on. Then what will you do? It is a failed concept, too bad you are either too ignorant to know better or too smitten with Obama to question him.

Strictly speaking, no, you're absolutely wrong. The ranks of the wealthy are swelling. Keep in mind though, "makers" get nowhere without relying on the little guy to purchase their products, run their plants, keep their machines going, serve in the armed forces which keep their national and international assets safe, are their firemen, policemen, employees, etc. No one is being assaulted here except for the middle class if you want to believe anything based upon the numbers. The middle class as a demographic has shrunk dramatically since the 1950s, with the upper class retaining more wealth and everyone else retaining less. You can only kick the little guy while he's down so many times before you start to experience some negative ramifications--anywhere from losing a presidential election and not appearing to have a plan for the future, to the little guy literally kicking back through civil unrest.

It remains to be seen as to what occurs, but history has not been kind to the "makers" who don't understand that their prosperity is only made possible by them taking from everyone else.

[KantoSooner]

Dear Champions,
I can feel your concern for the USofA and respect it. I don't share your apocalyptic frenzy, but I feel your concern.
I have, I believe, the solution to your problem. And it takes almost no time to install; so much the better!

Get on the horn to your buds at Republican Central. Have them concentrate on two issues: economic conservativism and personal liberty. Stay on that message and, for god's sake, crack whatever whip is necessary and keep the yokels in congress on point: no extra spending, no pork, pragmatic compromise to close budget gaps. Act like a corporate turnaround team working on pure commission.

And lose the hunger to mind other people's sex lives or religious observances. Tip: pretend like these things don't exist. If asked, "Gee, what do you think of gay marriage?", the correct answer for a Republican elected official from now on has to be, "Does that have any impact on getting our fiscal house in order? If not, then I don't see it as a proper thing to expend energy on." Ditto for questions on pot use, abortion, contraception, hang gliding, the charcoal vs. gas debate and all the other fluff that the Republicans have been spending their time on for the past four years.

Follow these easy instructions and the Democrats will be destroyed by 25 points in the next Presidential election.

If, on the contrary, Republicans spend money like drunken sailors, refuse to take any action whatsoever in the national interest in the hope of labelling Obama a 'do nothing' president and waste time trying to mind the uterii of America's women and figure ways to further empower megalomaniac preachers, then welcome to a world where the Democrats will win every election from now until forever.

Lose the social agenda, stay on the economic point.

[JohnnyMack]

So now it's all on Congress? So BHO who basically did what he wanted the first two years, while reminding any Repubs that "I won the election" along the way, if they showed any push back to his policies, is not culpable, at all? There is so much commerce that falls outside of Wall Street, but you continue to ignore that segment, and say it is all on Wall Street.
So who did you think came up with the failed idea of the "Community Reinvestment Act" Wall Street?

Sad, all on Wall Street with apparently no disdain for the role that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played in the whole sordid affair. And poor old George W gets the blame for all of it. Dems had nothing to do with it meltdown in 2008?

Wow

What the **** did Obama do his first two years anyway? Ram through a piece of **** health care law even though he had a majority in both houses and could still barely get it passed? Yeah, he's a real shrewd one.

If you're set in your ways believing that the Wall Street bubble of '08 was caused by Fannie, Freddie and the Democrats there's not much I can do about that. Other than suggest you read a book.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Left-Goldman-Sachs-Street/dp/1455527475/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353356952&sr=8-1&keywords=why+i+left+goldman+sachs

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Inside-Doomsday-Machine/dp/0393338827/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1353356972&sr=1-1&keywords=the+big+short

http://www.amazon.com/Boomerang-Travels-New-Third-World/dp/0393343448/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Wall Street creating bubbles is nothing new, and if you think it's a Republican or a Democrat thing you're quite simply too ignorant for words.

[pphilfran]

TARP did far more to stabilize the economy then the actual stimulus that followed...the unemployment rate of increase started to decline far before any stimulus money his the streets...GDP showed the same increase in growth after TARP

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/unemploy-5.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/indelec.jpg

[pphilfran]

I am not really sold on significantly higher revenue from taxing those making 250k or above....I don't see it bringing in a half percent of GDP (80 billion)...and I believe with our still weak economy (along with Europe who is now in a recession http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/15/us-eurozone-economy-idUSBRE8AE0HV20121115) we could be messing with fire...

Obama want 1.6 trillion over 10 years and he says that 160 billion a year will not come from the middle class or bottom...160 billion a year...around 3 million returns with AGI above 250k are filed..so to get that 160 billion a year would average out above 50k per return...

I am sure he will try to get some of that 160 billion a year from corp taxes..and if he does go after corp taxes you can rest assured that the increase will be passed on to the consumer as higher product prices...which will affect the middle class and lower....

[champions77]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you my exhibit "A" to Conservative bubble thinking. Let's break this down, shall we?



Because obviously Liberals have no common sense. It's just "common sense" that if you let corporations do whatever the heck they want to that we'll all prosper, right? Rising tide, all boats, etc.? Right? If it's so common sense, explain how wealth has become so concentrated at the very tippy top of the population. You say "makers" v. "takers," it rhymes, it's cute and all, but it's starting to look more like good 'ol Old World aristocracy vs. the bourgeois. There's really nothing "common sense" about either liberal or conservative positions. Taken to the extreme, both have proven ruinous.



Aside from the spelling errors (were you drunk when you posted this?), TARP brought lots of confidence back to the economy, the uncertainty which currently exists is a bipartisan issue caused by both parties, i.e., Republicans not budging on revenue increases for their protected aristocracy and protecting unneeded military programs and the Liberals not bending on immediate cuts to social entitlement/welfare spending and in other areas in an urgent manner, i.e., not 10 years from now. This issue lies at the feet of both parties.

Now, as far as providing certainty and protection, the consumer protection agency was created to do that, but Republicans have been attacking it from all angles. That kind of blew up in their faces when Warren was elected to the Senate when she could have just been a Department head who would have disappeared 4 years from now. That consumer protection agency would have originally been designed to protect us from the financial trickeration occurring in the financial sector, but it has in many respects been neutered.

Sure, it's not something which would have fostered immediate growth, but it would have helped us to ensure our growth is sustainable and not subject to boom and bust cycles based upon questionable securities.



Not true. Raising taxes on money earned in excess of $250K will earn significant money right now. I'd also like to lump capital gains in with that number, but we can't always get what we want.



Strictly speaking, no, you're absolutely wrong. The ranks of the wealthy are swelling. Keep in mind though, "makers" get nowhere without relying on the little guy to purchase their products, run their plants, keep their machines going, serve in the armed forces which keep their national and international assets safe, are their firemen, policemen, employees, etc. No one is being assaulted here except for the middle class if you want to believe anything based upon the numbers. The middle class as a demographic has shrunk dramatically since the 1950s, with the upper class retaining more wealth and everyone else retaining less. You can only kick the little guy while he's down so many times before you start to experience some negative ramifications--anywhere from losing a presidential election and not appearing to have a plan for the future, to the little guy literally kicking back through civil unrest.

It remains to be seen as to what occurs, but history has not been kind to the "makers" who don't understand that their prosperity is only made possible by them taking from everyone else.

I will agree with you that the GOP certainly is not without fault, as a matter of fact, more times than not, they act like "Democratic Lite" which makes them part of the problem too. I gravitate toward the GOP because I put my faith in the individual and the Free Market. You put your faith in the concept of collectivism and the Federal Government. Corporations are bad. The federal goverrnment is good. I just don't understand the blind defense and support of a Government that has lied, misled us, wasted our money and has overstepped their authority and boundaries in ways that no one would have imagined 30 years ago. And from what I can tell, are not the least concerned with the direction things are going.

It's pretty clear which concept made this a great country.

[KantoSooner]

I am sure he'll try corporate taxation. And that it will fail.

You can't tax corporations. They are like giant worms or tubes. If you increase taxation on a corp, the result is simple one or a combination of:
1. Higher prices for their goods and services. Who spends on goods and services disproportionately? Lower and middle income Americans. Richer people save or invest more of their money than the more hand-to-mouth folks.
2. Lower wages for employees and/or fewer employees. And which employees take it in the shorts? You got it: lower and middle level employees.
3. Lower share prices and/or lower dividends. Now, here an Obaman might be happy. He's soaking the rich. Finally! Well, except for the collateral damage of retirement funds and 401(K)s.
Nope. You just can't tax corporations. We'd be better off, in my view, to drop our corporate tax rate to zero. That's right, zero. And raise individual rates. And capital gains rates.
If you want to raise taxes, raise 'em. But do it to individuals, because, in the end, it's the individual who has to pay, one way or the other. We might as well be honest about it.

[okie52]

Not true. Raising taxes on money earned in excess of $250K will earn significant money right now. I'd also like to lump capital gains in with that number, but we can't always get what we want.


Raising capital gains taxes for what reason...to decrease tax revenues?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I will agree with you that the GOP certainly is not without fault, as a matter of fact, more times than not, they act like "Democratic Lite" which makes them part of the problem too. I gravitate toward the GOP because I put my faith in the individual and the Free Market. You put your faith in the concept of collectivism and the Federal Government. Corporations are bad. The federal goverrnment is good. I just don't understand the blind defense and support of a Government that has lied, misled us, wasted our money and has overstepped their authority and boundaries in ways that no one would have imagined 30 years ago. And from what I can tell, are not the least concerned with the direction things are going.

It's pretty clear which concept made this a great country.For the zumteenth time, and it still doesn't penetrate their cranial matter.

[pphilfran]

If you want to increase cap gains revenue you grow the economy which in turn helps the stock market which will cause cap gains to go up...

I have no problem taxing STCG at a higher rate...in fact, as far as I am concerned, you can put in a Ultra STCG rate and tax them at 99%

During Clinton's term the max cap gains rate was right at 29% through 1997...and he pulled in a max of .6% of GDP

In 1998 they dropped the rate to 21% and revenue increased to over 1%...

How can that be? One reason was a booming stock market...looming Y2K fears the closer we got to 2000....2001 and 2002 cap gains revenue again went into the crapper...along with the stock market...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=161

[Midtowner]

I will agree with you that the GOP certainly is not without fault, as a matter of fact, more times than not, they act like "Democratic Lite" which makes them part of the problem too.

Goodie. I hope you and yours stay as waaay to the right as humanly possible. Eventually, you'll even lose Oklahoma.


I gravitate toward the GOP because I put my faith in the individual and the Free Market. You put your faith in the concept of collectivism and the Federal Government.

I'll tell you what I put my faith in, you don't have to tell me. First off, the free market is a myth. It's a rigged game in favor of large corporations and the wealthiest Americans. An absolutely free market is where you get monopolies, which are bad. An absolutely free market places no regulations on environmental pollutants, it leads (and has led) to rivers which literally burn. We need someone to decide what is fair and to set up and enforce rules to ensure corporations are able to exist and make money, but they need to be restrained from acting out their necessarily harmful tendencies if left totally unfettered.

Ask a corporation to put a value on life--easy peasy, that's the amount the corporation has to pay back when they're sued or fined for killing someone. Dollars are not adequate measurements of morality, and that's really where corporations fail and why they need to be leashed (just like people).


Corporations are bad. The federal goverrnment is good. I just don't understand the blind defense and support of a Government that has lied, misled us, wasted our money and has overstepped their authority and boundaries in ways that no one would have imagined 30 years ago. And from what I can tell, are not the least concerned with the direction things are going.

The government may suck, but it's the only federal government we have. It sure as hell beats the alternative.


It's pretty clear which concept made this a great country.

You think corporations made this a great country, I think individuals made this a great company, all working together in support of their shared interests of prosperity and security. For example, Ford did not make this a great country, Ford has in fact done some really awful things in pursuit of profits, remember the $10 or whatever part which they could have fixed on the old Pintos, which they knew the lack of inclusion thereof would kill or maim a certain number of people. What made this country great was not the morally bereft company in that case, it was the fact that the victims took Ford to court and made them pay punitive damages which blew up their cost projections and enacted a new era of auto companies actually giving a **** about auto safety. We have a great system because it's built with great people in corporations in government, lawyers, doctors, soldiers, sailors, drillers, frackers, etc.

We need everyone working together, we need everyone playing by fair rules which don't allow them to hurt people to enhance their bottom lines and we can do without the demonization of a lot of groups on both sides of the aisle.

[Midtowner]

If you want to increase cap gains revenue you grow the economy which in turn helps the stock market which will cause cap gains to go up...

I have no problem taxing STCG at a higher rate...in fact, as far as I am concerned, you can put in a Ultra STCG rate and tax them at 99%

Well, maybe not that, but I'd certainly like to see a half-cent or 1.5 cent per-transaction tax on high frequency trading. That does nothing to benefit the economy and actually harms the stability of the markets.


During Clinton's term the max cap gains rate was right at 29% through 1997...and he pulled in a max of .6% of GDP

In 1998 they dropped the rate to 21% and revenue increased to over 1%...


How can that be? One reason was a booming stock market...looming Y2K fears the closer we got to 2000....2001 and 2002 cap gains revenue again went into the crapper...along with the stock market...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=161

Right, correlation =/= causation. I'd like to see LTCG left alone up to $250K per year or so, then a progressive scale after that. That'd probably be a pretty good source of revenue and maybe the Trumps would have to sell off a yacht. Oh bother.

[LiveLaughLove]

Yup, Nixon signed the DEA into existence in 1973. Biggest issue that I have
in the anonymous email is the premise that George W Bush was a good man.
Some of the examples given are a stretch but the premise of Obama owning
those things is pretty much on. I would advance the idea that a recovering
economy, we own it. The end of Afghan war, we own it. Some control of
Wall Street and big banks, we own it. A closed doughnut hole, we own it.
Spending being gotten under control, we own it. Restructured tax codes, we
own it. Deficits coming down, we own it. Unemployment coming down, we
own it. Energy self sufficient, we own it..North America providing its own oil,
we own it. More off shore (Pacific and Atlantic) drilling, we own it. (Okie52,
ya listening?:cheerful:) Stabilized and growing alternative energy industry,
we own it. Of course, blessing Texas, well, you can own that one!

Were you high, or just drunk when you typed this?

Enquiring minds want to know.

[rock on sooner]

Were you high, or just drunk when you typed this?

Enquiring minds want to know.


LLL, let me know when you find one.

[XingTheRubicon]

Spending being gotten under control, we own it.



sometimes the glitter gets in your eyes

[Turd_Ferguson]

sometimes the glitter gets in your eyesIt ain't glitter...it's Obammy's jizz...

[jkjsooner]

Ugh. I accidentally liked this thread. Now all my friends on facebook think I'm as crazy as some of you.

Eh, half of them are as crazy as well.