Stick this here 'cause Obama will

[rock on sooner]

challenged shortly. Hamas got rocks for brains and Israel has
no patience. This is about to get nasty!

[BoulderSooner79]

And I thought for sure those guys had finally settled their differences.

[ouwasp]

I always said the "Arab Street" = dumb box of rocks...

[C&CDean]

WTF does obama got to do with it?

[rock on sooner]

WTF does obama got to do with it?

Nothing yet. Just wait til Israel starts the ground war, who do you think
will HAVE to have their backs?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Nothing yet. Just wait til Israel starts the ground war, who do you think
will HAVE to have their backs?After turning his back on the 4 at Benghazi, I doubt Israel is betting on come...

[C&CDean]

Yeah, Israel ain't holding their breath on that one.

[8timechamps]

Israel has been sitting quietly by while Hamas has been pouring rockets into their country for months. It's not coincidental that Israel finally reacted after the US elections were done. Quiet simply, they aren't expecting the US to do anything, so they said **** it, we'll take care of our own.

There is no winner in all of this. The Palestinians want their land back, Israel wants it controlled. It's the same **** they've been fighting over for decades, only this time Israel isn't looking for US approval before responding.

[rock on sooner]

Israel has been sitting quietly by while Hamas has been pouring rockets into their country for months. It's not coincidental that Israel finally reacted after the US elections were done. Quiet simply, they aren't expecting the US to do anything, so they said **** it, we'll take care of our own.

There is no winner in all of this. The Palestinians want their land back, Israel wants it controlled. It's the same **** they've been fighting over for decades, only this time Israel isn't looking for US approval before responding.

8x, dead on,but for Dean and TF, think you're wrong. Benghazi was a cluster**** and
an intell failure. The election is done and Obama (or any other second term prez aint
gotta worry) and Netanyahu knows it. Israel is fed up and Hamas should be aware. I
heard on NPR from some Hamas deputy how poorly armed they are and, seems to me,
that they are trying to provoke to get international sympathy. Israel is unforgiving when
it comes to security so I'm guessing the Hamas has rattled the wrong cage.

And, 8x, dead right again, there is no winner.

[ouwasp]

I think the question is wth Israel has taken so long to do anything with Hamas and the other pos mooslem terrorist groups over there. I mean, they shell Israel all the time.

Talk about fighting with one hand tied behind your back...

[cleller]

I thought Jimmy Carter fixed all that, or was that just the fussing with Egypt? Won a Nobel Prize, right, just like Obama?

[soonercruiser]

After turning his back on the 4 at Benghazi, I doubt Israel is betting on come...

THIS^^^^^

[OUinFLA]

I thought Jimmy Carter fixed all that, or was that just the fussing with Egypt? Won a Nobel Prize, right, just like Obama?

why did he win that ?
anyone ever figure that out?

[BoulderSooner79]

I thought Jimmy Carter fixed all that, or was that just the fussing with Egypt? Won a Nobel Prize, right, just like Obama?

Well, Sadat was assassinated a couple of years after the camp David accord and this last election in Egypt probably wiped any remaining influence from that peace treaty. That's actually quite a lasting accomplishment in Arab peace terms.

[8timechamps]

I think the question is wth Israel has taken so long to do anything with Hamas and the other pos mooslem terrorist groups over there. I mean, they shell Israel all the time.

Talk about fighting with one hand tied behind your back...

I think a lot of the reason they didn't react was because of pressure from the US (and international pressure) to remain silent, for fear it would spark a fire in the region. I think Netanyahu feels that Obama isn't going to back his move, so he finally said we're going to take care of ourselves regardless of who supports us. I can't blame him.

The problem is, Egypt doesn't want Israel to think it can operate in Siani, and if things continue on course, it will probably come to that. If that happens, then it could very well escalate to a full blown war in the middle east.

[JohnnyMack]

The last time Israel rolled its tanks into Gaza, they didn't get much in the way of support, from anyone, much less the US.

[soonercruiser]

But, the tanks and troops are amassed and ready to go.
I expect Egypt to broker something quick in order to delay a re-invasion.
(i.e. let Hamas chicken out!)

[8timechamps]

But, the tanks and troops are amassed and ready to go.
I expect Egypt to broker something quick in order to delay a re-invasion.
(i.e. let Hamas chicken out!)

I'm sure they're burning the midnight oil trying to get something done, but I'm not sure it's going to do much at this point. The troops and tanks are at the border, waiting for the call. The question is, when Israel makes the move, will Egypt counter? At that point, I'm think the US will tell them that their aid is riding on them not acting...but I'm not sure that will be enough either.

Egypt is the variable in this whole thing. They'll either figure out a way to cool things off, or they'll be the catalyst of the great middle eastern war.

[ouwasp]

To expect the arabs/moslems to moderate about this is just fantasy, imo. Israel might as well quit playing patty-cake with them and drop the hammer...

What are they gonna do? Hate Israel more?

[OUinFLA]

I think the question is wth Israel has taken so long to do anything with Hamas and the other pos mooslem terrorist groups over there. I mean, they shell Israel all the time.

Talk about fighting with one hand tied behind your back...

pressure to wait until our election was over?

[rock on sooner]

I'm sure they're burning the midnight oil trying to get something done, but I'm not sure it's going to do much at this point. The troops and tanks are at the border, waiting for the call. The question is, when Israel makes the move, will Egypt counter? At that point, I'm think the US will tell them that their aid is riding on them not acting...but I'm not sure that will be enough either.

Egypt is the variable in this whole thing. They'll either figure out a way to cool things off, or they'll be the catalyst of the great middle eastern war.

Pretty sure that Egypt wants nothing to do with Israel's military.

I read an assessment that Hamas really wants international sympathy,
thinking that Israel will ease up on the blockade and, maybe some
easier movement between Gaza and Israel. That's probably the message
that Clinton is carrying from Obama. Netanyahu really wants the rockets
to stop and will do it physically, and messily, if Hamas doesn't stop. Iran
is supplying the bulk of the rockets and Israel knows that. Iran may get
sucker punched for their trouble. That's the larger issue, imo.

[KantoSooner]

Well, let's run down of what we here at Kanto-Center like to call:

The ****ed Up Facts: Middle East Edition

1. Israel was created to assuage European guilt following WWII. It was the end result of fifty years or so of negotiation by a group of vicious old men, known as Zionists, who wanted out of Europe and wanted the 'Holy Land' back. (Notwithstanding that said land had not been under their control for approximately 2,000 years. Oy Vey!)
2. The majority of 'Israeli's who control anything worth controlling in Israel are Ashkenazi, that is to say, European, Jews. They have no history in the region for the vast majority of the past two millenia and, genetically are far more Polish, German, Russian or French than anything else (yes, intermarriage seems to have taken place during the Diaspora). The Sephardem, that is the Arab/North African Jews are marginalized even inside Israel. So basically, Israel was set up for and by and is run by a bunch of Europeans who moved there following WWI and then, in big numbers following WWII.
3. The Palestinians didn't 'own' the land currently under Israeli control. It was all controlled by and directly owned by the Ottoman Empire. They were vassels in a very strict medieval sense right up to the end of WWI. And that means that they were chattels of the Ottoman crown. They had, however, mostly lived there since the end of the Jewish Kings in Biblical times...largely because they were the same people who were living there under the Jewish Kings...largely because a whole bunch of them were, back in those days...Jewish. They just converted. Yes, it's all a big family squabble. Over a little chunk of butt-ugly land that hardly supports any form of decent agriculture.
4. Israel does not equal Palestine. Not entirely because, well, there's Jordan. The other half of what was historically called 'Palestiine' or 'Trans-Jordan'. The same Brits who felt bad for the Jews and finally put their imprimatur on 'Israel' promoted a minor Hashemite noble family into ownership of what's now Jordan. Essentially because they were reasonable, clean cut, spoke English and somebody was going to have to run that chunk of land once the Turks were shoved back into Turkey. This part of things has worked out fairly well. The Husseins have been probably the only power family in the Mid-East to have even a nodding acqaintance with sanity. And that, really from only about 1967 onwards. (That they have had extraordinary taste in wives is to their everlasting credit, it should be noted.)
5. The surrounding areas have all had well established designs on the territory known as Israel. Hell, Ramses II fought the Hyksos over the place 4,000 years ago. Somebody's been killing somebody over it forever. The Bible helpfully outlines who among the pretenders to the area are to be genocided and who are merely to be enslaved and have their women despoiled. Excellent stuff!
6. US Presidents since Truman have found themselves snake fascinated with the mirage of bringing peace to the Middle East. US Presidents since Truman have all failed. With the exception of JFK who essentially ignored the place until he got shot. Given time, he would have tried and failed, too.


The situation in the Mid-East is not going to be 'solved' unless we mean by that that either the Israelis are exterminated or the Palestinians are. And, with current population trends, there is never going to be a 'land for peace' deal that satisifies enough Palestinians for a two state solution to stably evolve. The last time for that was in the 1980's. The early 1980's.

So, what should we do? How about this. We keep doing what we're doing, keeping the lid mostly on, until such time as the oil runs out. At that point, the region has, of strategic interest to the rest of the world exactly one thing: a canal. Other than a period of bizarre theological creativity between 2 and 5 thousand years before present (and that of the decidedly 'mixed blessing' sort considering the endless war and civil conflict the products have generated), the region has produced virtually nothing of lasting worth in a long, long time. I generally don't like the New Yorkism of 'What have you done for me lately?', but in this case there's some validity. Hey, Phonecians, thanks for simplifying hyroglyphics into a phonetic script and thereby kick-starting mass literacy! Did you have a second act? Or was that going to be it for the current 5,000 year period. Hummus is nice and all, but seriously, does it, alone, justify thousands of years of a society? and so forth.

Once the oil is gone, we should turn our backs on the area and let them sort it out. With a stern warning that, should nuclear conflict break out, they should be very, very careful to keep it at home.