Union D-Bags and Thugs Threaten Company Survival

[SicEmBaylor]

I detest labor unions -- let me get that out of the way right now. One of the things that has always astounded me is the unwillingness of unions to give an inch on contract negotiations when their company is clearly failing. It's as if they would rather have the entire company go down the drain rather than accept some pay or benefit cuts. As if thousands of people losing their job is better than a marginal decrease in their paycheck. Here is a perfect example of the union holding a company hostage.

Thousands of Hostess employees are striking nationwide (keep in mind Hostess has already had to file for bankruptcy and here their employees are striking). Hostess has said if the union won't come to an agreement then they'll have to fire every single employee and shut down the company entirely. I hope it doesn't come to that but every one of those union thugs gets what they deserve if it does come to that.

http://www.newson6.com/story/20075806/tulsa-hostess-workers-join-nationwide-strike

[soonercruiser]

WOW!!!
What will the inner cities do without their "HoHo's"????
:panda:

[KantoSooner]

Think of the Twinkies!

[diverdog]

Hostess is a mess. It goes way beyond the unions.

[SicEmBaylor]

WOW!!!
What will the inner cities do without their "HoHo's"????
:panda:

Go eat your glue, Ralphie.

[SicEmBaylor]

Hostess is a mess. It goes way beyond the unions.

Absolutely, but the unions sure as **** shouldn't be trying to drive the last nail into their own company's coffin.

[diverdog]

Absolutely, but the unions sure as **** shouldn't be trying to drive the last nail into their own company's coffin.

From where I sit I don't think they will survive even with the concessions.

[Scott D]

Absolutely, but the unions sure as **** shouldn't be trying to drive the last nail into their own company's coffin.

Let's say by chance that they are 'driving the last nail into their own company's coffin', how is this really any different than executives making personal parachutes before demolishing the company they've been entrusted to lead forward?

Not saying either bit is right, however workers aren't the only ones that don't look out for a company's short or long term interests in regards to adapting for survival.

[badger]

Is Hostess in a similar situation to AA? Because around these here Tulsa parts, the AA union argument against concessions is that they've given up a lot and the execs and corporate big wigs have gotten bonuses and not had to have their own concessions, so it's their turn to give back for the company, not the employees' turn anymore.

As for Hostess, if I were the investing type, I would NOT invest in any companies that sell unhealthy anything these days, because that's not the way the wind blows the sail right now. You're seeing everyone from PepsiCo to McDonald's with diminished returns on their tride and true junk food.

Are people getting healthier when they choose against the usual unhealthy options? No. Makes me wonder what they're eating instead of their normal junk food crap...

[soonercruiser]

From where I sit I don't think they will survive even with the concessions.

Are you sitting on you "HoHo"?
:surprise:

[soonercruiser]

Is Hostess in a similar situation to AA? Because around these here Tulsa parts, the AA union argument against concessions is that they've given up a lot and the execs and corporate big wigs have gotten bonuses and not had to have their own concessions, so it's their turn to give back for the company, not the employees' turn anymore.

As for Hostess, if I were the investing type, I would NOT invest in any companies that sell unhealthy anything these days, because that's not the way the wind blows the sail right now. You're seeing everyone from PepsiCo to McDonald's with diminished returns on their tride and true junk food.

Are people getting healthier when they choose against the usual unhealthy options? No. Makes me wonder what they're eating instead of their normal junk food crap...

Thank you for sharing Food Officer Badger!
:panda:

[pphilfran]

From where I sit I don't think they will survive even with the concessions.

Much more to the story than posted here...I know one of the union stewards and he is a good guy...

First...and this REALLY chapped everyone's azz http://www.law360.com/employment/articles/307710/hostess-ceo-could-get-2m-perk-under-employment-deal

Hostess Brands Inc. CEO Brian J. Driscoll, who devised the bankrupt company's business restructuring plan, had considered abandoning Hostess unless he was assured that he could receive a $2 million payment in the future under a noncompete agreement, according to a court filing Tuesday.

Driscoll is also poised to receive a $1.5 million salary, annual short-term cash incentive awards and a long-term performance-based bump of $2 million, according to the filing in New York bankruptcy court. Hostess asked the court to let it adopt Driscoll's employment...

2nd - The route people voted to take cuts in pay and benefits...they are lucky to make 12 bucks an hour....the bakery people are the ones those voted down the deal and they have gone on strike....the bakeries are now operating with scab workers or management on the job (I have been there!)...the route guys are still on the job with limited product...

[FaninAma]

Hostess is a mess. It goes way beyond the unions.

Most bankrupt companies usually are in a mess but I would hazard a guess that labor costs are a big part of their mess.

Philphran, the corporate bankruptcy system in this country is a cesspool especially in New York and Delaware. There is a reason so many corporations incorporate in Delaware. The debtors in possession(management backed by bond holders) control the entire process. Employees and shareholders are on the outside looking in.

[cleller]

It really is a shame. I try not to eat too much of that type of extremely bad for you food, but Hostess' stuff is the best of lot. Its also unreasonably expensive.
Donuts, pies, Ding Dongs. We dreamed of that stuff as kids, was a special event to get any.

[olevetonahill]

We dreamed of that stuff as kids, was a special event to get any.

I still dream of gettin some
Oh wait yer talkin Junk Food , My bad

[Wishboned]

I still dream of gettin some
Oh wait yer talkin Junk Food , My bad

HoHo's? Or just regular Ho's?

[KantoSooner]

The management should simply sell off the money making product lines, distribute the cash to the share holders and leave the union standing out in the parking lot, holding their dicks in their hands.
Oh, and pay themselves tasty bonuses on the way out the door.
There is not enough contempt in the world for unions.

[badger]

Thank you for sharing Food Officer Badger!
:panda:

OK...then...

Anyways, I got my question answered since the strike moved to a Tulsa plant here (Wonderbread). Basically, like I suspected, the workers feel that with past concessions, they are unwilling to give any more ground.
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/tulsa-wonder-bread-plant-strike-picketers-11th-and/nS5Lp/

Yes, even if it means the company liquidates and everyone's laid off. The workers refused any additional concessions.

Like the Republican (we want tax cuts for all or nothing!) vs Democrat (we want tax cuts for all but the wealthy or nothing!) fiscal cliff war, do you blame the workers for refusing to give in, or the corporate side for refusing to do what it takes for company survival, or both?

Blame both.

[StoopTroup]

Most bankrupt companies usually are in a mess but I would hazard a guess that labor costs are a big part of their mess.

Philphran, the corporate bankruptcy system in this country is a cesspool especially in New York and Delaware. There is a reason so many corporations incorporate in Delaware. The debtors in possession(management backed by bond holders) control the entire process. Employees and shareholders are on the outside looking in.

When you said Employees....you just need to also include Unions or this is not going to be a very good learning moment for SicEm and anyone else that wants to paint Unions as the problem.

It's all about money and like you are saying....Unions/Employees and Shareholders have very little to do with controlling the bankruptcy process. Anyone that thinks differently is allowing themselves to use whatever hatred they have for legal organizations that have the right to exist and usually exist due to very valid reasons. Once Bankruptcy Courts are involved it's between the Board of Directors and the Court to decide whether or not the Company restructures or whether it would be best to shut it down and have a Fire Sale.

We almost had a POTUS that knows exactly how much power he has when he's in such a position and 61 Million people voted to send him back to doing what he does best...ruin Companies and fill his pockets.

[Soonerjeepman]

As for Hostess, if I were the investing type, I would NOT invest in any companies that sell unhealthy anything these days, because that's not the way the wind blows the sail right now. You're seeing everyone from PepsiCo to McDonald's with diminished returns on their tride and true junk food.

Are people getting healthier when they choose against the usual unhealthy options? No. Makes me wonder what they're eating instead of their normal junk food crap...


and thanks to the FEDERAL gov intrusion..not that I'm against being healthy, I'm trying! but again, it's another intrusion. M obama is behind all the school lunch issues. My son is 17, 6'1 an athlete and he CAN'T get enough to eat at school even if he wanted to.

When is it the governments role to tell you what you can eat? let survival of the fittest work, if your company has a good product it will survive.

*oh and we PAY for it, not on free lunches.

[badger]

M obama is behind all the school lunch issues. My son is 17, 6'1 an athlete and he CAN'T get enough to eat at school even if he wanted to.

I heard about that... does he sneak food to school so that he can get extra calories before sports practice?

I think their heart is in the right place - child obesity is a problem - but their way of going about a solution is wrong

[Soonerjeepman]

I heard about that... does he sneak food to school so that he can get extra calories before sports practice?

I think their heart is in the right place - child obesity is a problem - but their way of going about a solution is wrong

not sure, lol, I told him to take apples/bananas etc..HS kids only get 850 cal at lunch from my understanding. I totally UNDERSTAND the child obesity thing, but AGAIN, it's NOT THE GOVERNMENTS job to tell us how to raise our kids. Goes back to my premise about people relying on the government because they are either too ignorant, lazy, whatever to RAISE their OWN kids.

[Midtowner]

not sure, lol, I told him to take apples/bananas etc..HS kids only get 850 cal at lunch from my understanding. I totally UNDERSTAND the child obesity thing, but AGAIN, it's NOT THE GOVERNMENTS job to tell us how to raise our kids. Goes back to my premise about people relying on the government because they are either too ignorant, lazy, whatever to RAISE their OWN kids.

The 850 calorie thing is what some places do, yeah. There are quite a few schools at least locally who have dropped their nutrition programs and gone to outside catering companies which provide fresh and high quality, nutritious meals for the same price (or less). They'll even allow the kids to come back for seconds.

http://okcfriday.com/students-teachers-praise-new-cafeteria-food-at-hcp-p7284-150.htm

That said, with regard to people raising their own kids, there will always be some who won't/can't. I've done enough work within the juvenile deprived system to understand that these kids need to be taken out of some parents' homes and put into homes where they'll really be loved and where they'll be allowed to be children. I've seen too many cases where older siblings have raised younger siblings while dad is absent and mom is strung out--way too common.

I'm not sure whether you're implying this, but the government performs an absolutely vital role in so many children's lives. Is that a bad thing for the kids? Absolutely it is, but sometimes, you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

[badger]

not sure, lol, I told him to take apples/bananas etc..HS kids only get 850 cal at lunch from my understanding. I totally UNDERSTAND the child obesity thing, but AGAIN, it's NOT THE GOVERNMENTS job to tell us how to raise our kids. Goes back to my premise about people relying on the government because they are either too ignorant, lazy, whatever to RAISE their OWN kids.

I'm fairly new at this parenting thing, but if it wasn't the government's job to raise kids, there wouldn't be public schools. I think they're partially in their own jurisdiction to have some say over what they provide students to eat while in public school buildings. Back when I was in school, they didn't have junk food/soda machines at the elementary school, and those machines were turned off during lunch hours while I was in junior/high school. There were nutritional standards for what the lunch ladies served us, but at the same time, students could bring in their own lunches which I think did not have any restrictions whatsoever. As you can imagine, the elementary kids whose parents packed soda/chips were the envy of the rest of us who were subject to cartons of milk and steamed veggies in the school-provided lunches :D

As a former high school athlete, here's a protip: Freeze one of those gatorade bottles. By the time it's time for sports practice/competition, the bottle will be half/three-quarters thawed, but will still be the perfect cool temperature. Gatorade is loaded with calories and will give you an extra boost, even without the lunch factor (because some days, those lunches just SUCKED and you didn't want to eat what they provided, regardless of how hungry you were!). If you are on a parent budget (I don't know any parents who aren't) and don't want to buy new Gatorades every day, I highly recommend the powered stuff, available fairly cheaply at the Walmarts and elsewhere.

[SicEmBaylor]

I was lucky enough to go to a public school district that offered plenty of choices including bringing in outside food every day (such as pizza) which is a good thing because there was no way in hell I was going to eat that disgusting government crap they served. No way. In 11 years of public school, I never once ate the cafeteria food. I had the same thing for lunch every day...a slice of pizza, a Kit Kat or Reese's, and a Mt. Dew. Well, actually I didn't start taking the Mt. Dew to school for lunch until middle school. Before that, I had a grape slushy.

Our school didn't have pop vending machines until I was in HS and even then they were ONLY in the cafeteria because I went to a school that was beyond anal about food and drinks in the building itself. They would crucify you at my school if you defaced school property or the building in any way, and they sure were not going to risk spilled drinks.

[olevetonahill]

HoHo's? Or just regular Ho's?

These will do
http://www.tubapants.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/santa_claus_160.jpg

[Wishboned]

These will do
http://www.tubapants.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/santa_claus_160.jpg

Whoa ho!

:)

[olevetonahill]

Whoa ho!

:)

Not WHOA Ho. Its GO GO HO
We dont want em stoppin

[TAFBSooner]

The management should simply sell off the money making product lines, distribute the cash to the share holders and leave the union standing out in the parking lot, holding their dicks in their hands.
Oh, and pay themselves tasty bonuses on the way out the door.
There is not enough contempt in the world for unions.

I understand the hate for unions.

I surely don't understand the love for managers, or at least not for managers who have failed.

[KantoSooner]

Don't have any love for management. In fact, I've never seen a factory floor problem that wasn't the result of poor management. It's just that I'd like in this case, to see an arrogant union get the shaft. This is something like the third management team Hostess has had in the last 4 years. They might be arrogant bastidges themselves, but they didn't dig the hole.

[FaninAma]

When you said Employees....you just need to also include Unions or this is not going to be a very good learning moment for SicEm and anyone else that wants to paint Unions as the problem.

It's all about money and like you are saying....Unions/Employees and Shareholders have very little to do with controlling the bankruptcy process. Anyone that thinks differently is allowing themselves to use whatever hatred they have for legal organizations that have the right to exist and usually exist due to very valid reasons. Once Bankruptcy Courts are involved it's between the Board of Directors and the Court to decide whether or not the Company restructures or whether it would be best to shut it down and have a Fire Sale.

We almost had a POTUS that knows exactly how much power he has when he's in such a position and 61 Million people voted to send him back to doing what he does best...ruin Companies and fill his pockets.


ST, if you don't think members of both political parties take advantage of the bankruptcy laws then you are in denial. And the only reason the bankruptcy laws exiast is because they were created with support from both parties.

At least Romney had enough knowlwdge about the corrupt systm thathe could propose some intelligent changes like Joe Kennedy did when he was the first chairman of the SEC.

Obama is clueless about the system and couldn't even begin to change it even if he wanted to which I doubt he does.

[yermom]

from the stories i've heard about Hostess, they treat their employees like ****

i don't know what they aren't conceding on, but i can understand why they are fed up

[pphilfran]

They came out of BK a couple of years ago and then filed a second time last year (I think it was last year)...the union gave up a lot of concessions the last time the filed....and now they want them to give up even more while management wanted big bonuses or raises...I don't blame the union in this case...

The company has overpriced their product vs Little Debbie...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Absolutely, but the unions sure as **** shouldn't be trying to drive the last nail into their own company's coffin.Unions seem to have that mentality in most places they operate. it appears they have a disdain for the very companies that employ them...WHODA THOUGHT THAT?!?!? haha

[olevetonahill]

Management DESERVES Large bonus's and Big paychecks for having to put up with UNIONS.:devilish:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The management should simply sell off the money making product lines, distribute the cash to the share holders and leave the union standing out in the parking lot, holding their dicks in their hands.
Oh, and pay themselves tasty bonuses on the way out the door.
There is not enough contempt in the world for unions.They are not friends of commerce. They'd just as soon be on the taxpayer's teat as their own company's employment, I guess. Like so many D voters.

[JiminyChristmas]

Unions were established for good reasons and served their purpose well early on. Mainly worker safety. They have way outlived their usefulness. Now all they do is drive up the cost of doing business and force management to look overseas for cheaper alternatives in order to stay competitive in the global marketplace.

[LiveLaughLove]

Speaking of D-bag corporate types. Here's a guy who is closing a facility in NY, costing 96 people their jobs before Christmas. He is also eliminating 5% of his total workforce globally because of the Medical Device Tax in ObamaCare. That lay off will hit about 1170 people, for a total layoff of 1266 jobs. Thanks ObamaCare, because hey, you care.

Oh yeah, this guy's name is Jon Stryker. Hes in the Forbes 400, so he's one of those super super rich.

And one last thing, he was a top five money donor for President Obama.

So he helped elect the guy that he knew would force him to lay off all of those people, but he helped him (and many other Michigan Democrats) anyway. True compassion.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/13/Obama-Donor-s-Corporation-Lays-Off-Employees-Due-to-ObamaCare

[jkjsooner]

I agree with SicEm's position except when it comes to pensions. I know some here are going to think of it as an entitlement mentality but when you've worked for 40 years under a certain promise, that promise should be met. If the employer can't meet that obligation then they deserve to go out of business. If they raided the pension program or did not adequately fund it then they deserve to go out of business.

If this is just about salaries or some sort or benefits for future work then I agree.

[SicEmBaylor]

I agree with SicEm's position except when it comes to pensions. I know some here are going to think of it as an entitlement mentality but when you've worked for 40 years under a certain promise, that promise should be met. If the employer can't meet that obligation then they deserve to go out of business. If they raided the pension program or did not adequately fund it then they deserve to go out of business.

If this is just about salaries or some sort or benefits for future work then I agree.
I agree with you on existing pensions -- I was referring to renegotiating the pension plan for those not yet retired. It isn't at all fair to have your pension cut without warning.

[pphilfran]

I agree with you on existing pensions -- I was referring to renegotiating the pension plan for those not yet retired. It isn't at all fair to have your pension cut without warning.

Watch you talkin' bout? They get a least a day warning...

[badger]

I agree with SicEm's position except when it comes to pensions. I know some here are going to think of it as an entitlement mentality but when you've worked for 40 years under a certain promise, that promise should be met. If the employer can't meet that obligation then they deserve to go out of business. If they raided the pension program or did not adequately fund it then they deserve to go out of business.

If this is just about salaries or some sort or benefits for future work then I agree.

It's really sad to hear about some employees that have worked their entire careers with pensions as part of their compensation being told late in their career that they are being 401k'd and then have no really time to contribute ahead of a normal retirement age. There's the government safety net plan, but it only covers up to 50k annually and it's far less if you've retired before a certain age (like pilots that are disallowed by law to work past 50, if i'm not mistaken).

If we've learned anything in this economic crunch, it's that relying on others is not safe and perhaps not smart... sadly. :(

[pphilfran]

It's really sad to hear about some employees that have worked their entire careers with pensions as part of their compensation being told late in their career that they are being 401k'd and then have no really time to contribute ahead of a normal retirement age. There's the government safety net plan, but it only covers up to 50k annually and it's far less if you've retired before a certain age (like pilots that are disallowed by law to work past 50, if i'm not mistaken).

If we've learned anything in this economic crunch, it's that relying on others is not safe and perhaps not smart... sadly. :(

The dude that landed the US Airways jet in the Hudson river was in his upper 50's...

[olevetonahill]

The dude that landed the US Airways jet in the Hudson river was in his upper 50's...

It was age 60, Its now 65
http://www.leftseat.com/age60.htm

[C&CDean]

The only ones I know of who have compulsory retirement at age 55 are law enforcement types. Pilots? Not so much.

[FirstandGoal]

not sure, lol, I told him to take apples/bananas etc..HS kids only get 850 cal at lunch from my understanding. I totally UNDERSTAND the child obesity thing, but AGAIN, it's NOT THE GOVERNMENTS job to tell us how to raise our kids. Goes back to my premise about people relying on the government because they are either too ignorant, lazy, whatever to RAISE their OWN kids.

LOL, as a teacher you surely know how ignorant and lazy many parents are. But I get what you're saying and agree.


I'm fairly new at this parenting thing, but if it wasn't the government's job to raise kids, there wouldn't be public schools. I think they're partially in their own jurisdiction to have some say over what they provide students to eat while in public school buildings. Back when I was in school, they didn't have junk food/soda machines at the elementary school, and those machines were turned off during lunch hours while I was in junior/high school. There were nutritional standards for what the lunch ladies served us, but at the same time, students could bring in their own lunches which I think did not have any restrictions whatsoever. As you can imagine, the elementary kids whose parents packed soda/chips were the envy of the rest of us who were subject to cartons of milk and steamed veggies in the school-provided lunches :D

As a former high school athlete, here's a protip: Freeze one of those gatorade bottles. By the time it's time for sports practice/competition, the bottle will be half/three-quarters thawed, but will still be the perfect cool temperature. Gatorade is loaded with calories and will give you an extra boost, even without the lunch factor (because some days, those lunches just SUCKED and you didn't want to eat what they provided, regardless of how hungry you were!). If you are on a parent budget (I don't know any parents who aren't) and don't want to buy new Gatorades every day, I highly recommend the powered stuff, available fairly cheaply at the Walmarts and elsewhere.

Okay, so one of my kids has graduated high school and the other is a sophmore. The oldest is my son, and the younger my daughter so I've seen both sides of the issue. My son was in sports and complained all the time about school lunches not being either tasty or plentiful enough. Some of the time he ordered "double lunch", which apparently is a double order of the main entree portion? Honestly, he never was very clear on exactly what that entailed, just that it cost almost double what the normal lunches cost. Lord knows I tried my best to get the kid to bring his own food to school, but that wasn't "cool enough" for him and because he didn't want to look like a dork (his words, not mine) he went hungry a lot of days. Lord knows high school age boys aren't the smartest in the world so this doesn't surprise me.
My daughter on the other hand is very into health and nutrition and the thought of her eating an 850 calorie (with not the greatest nutrients) lunch would horrify her. She's not one of these weird teenage girls that thinks that thinner is better and starves herself. On the contrary, she's very into being healthy and physically fit and knows that the best path to that is to eat proper nutrients within a normal calorie intake. She knows to stay away from junk food most of the time with the occasional pizza/pop on special occasions. I trust her judgement and I know that 90% of the time she's going to make the healthiest choice available. A lot of the time she brings her own lunch, but there are many times when she would rather that the school would just have healthier options because unless she brings a sandwich every day (which gets very boring) her other options are to reheat leftovers or bring something else microwaveable and healthy and then she spends over half her allotted lunch time waiting on the microwave. Also, her school has a salad option every day which she usually chooses when she doesn't bring her lunch but there is also the boredom factor with that in addition to availability (sometimes the salad bar is completely decimated by the time she gets there)-- those are the days she will skip lunch and eat a protein bar she always has in her backpack.

Bottom line: my daughter is very self-motivated to make the right choices, but in a lot of cases you have the kids like my son who are clueless and lazy. Since both kids share the same mom, the difference isn't due to the parenting, but to the individual kid making the decisions.
All in all, I'm in favor of better nutrition in schools. Lord knows they need it. I just don't think its the government's job to enforce it.

[KantoSooner]

going back to pensions for a moment. One huge strength of the US economy is the flexibility of our labor force. We don't want to lose that. I think that we can support responsible retirement planning and make our labor more 'free' by following a pension model used by several countries but which I encountered in Malaysia and Singapore.
Each employee is required by law to donate X% of salary to his own retirement account. His employer is required to donate Y% (generall a bit higher than the employee).
These donations go into individual accounts, not into a general pool. You can track them over the course of your life. With limited exceptions, you can not access the money until you're retirement age. You can choose between a limited list of investment choices how the money will be managed over the years.
From day one, you've got something for retirement. Something that poor corporate management can't take away. Something that moves with you when you change jobs. Something that you're 'vested' in from the first minute.
Always made sense to me.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

going back to pensions for a moment. One huge strength of the US economy is the flexibility of our labor force. We don't want to lose that. I think that we can support responsible retirement planning and make our labor more 'free' by following a pension model used by several countries but which I encountered in Malaysia and Singapore.
Each employee is required by law to donate X% of salary to his own retirement account. His employer is required to donate Y% (generall a bit higher than the employee).
These donations go into individual accounts, not into a general pool. You can track them over the course of your life. With limited exceptions, you can not access the money until you're retirement age. You can choose between a limited list of investment choices how the money will be managed over the years.
From day one, you've got something for retirement. Something that poor corporate management can't take away. Something that moves with you when you change jobs. Something that you're 'vested' in from the first minute.
Always made sense to me.

I think W proposed that and it was labelled a give away to Wall St. Politicians don't like handing over control of billions of dollars to us idiots.

[SoonerKnight]

I detest labor unions -- let me get that out of the way right now. One of the things that has always astounded me is the unwillingness of unions to give an inch on contract negotiations when their company is clearly failing. It's as if they would rather have the entire company go down the drain rather than accept some pay or benefit cuts. As if thousands of people losing their job is better than a marginal decrease in their paycheck. Here is a perfect example of the union holding a company hostage.

Thousands of Hostess employees are striking nationwide (keep in mind Hostess has already had to file for bankruptcy and here their employees are striking). Hostess has said if the union won't come to an agreement then they'll have to fire every single employee and shut down the company entirely. I hope it doesn't come to that but every one of those union thugs gets what they deserve if it does come to that.

http://www.newson6.com/story/20075806/tulsa-hostess-workers-join-nationwide-strike

Sic'em I hope you don't ever expect to get over time or have a weekend because the unions suck so bad.

[olevetonahill]

Sic'em I hope you don't ever expect to get over time or have a weekend because the unions suck so bad.

he' have to have a Jorb 1st :black_eyed:

[SicEmBaylor]

he' have to have a Jorb 1st :black_eyed:

Jobs are sooooo pedestrian. ;)

[olevetonahill]

Jobs are sooooo pedestrian. ;)

:kiwi-fruit:

[SoonerKnight]

Jobs are sooooo pedestrian. ;)

If you don't have a job then how can you hate unions? If you have never had a union job then what do you know about unions?

[badger]

Update, guys: Hostess is gonna liquidate if the union workers don't get back on the jorb by 4 p.m. today (oklahoma time)

link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=46&articleid=20121115_46_0_Hostes233831)

However, it can't file a motion to shutter em till Friday morning, and facilities wouldn't actually close till as early as Tuesday.

So... endgame time. Do YOU know how to checkmate with just a knight and a bishop, or will you be forced into a draw if you can't force your opponent's king into a corner?

[olevetonahill]

Who GAS? I never buy their junk anyway

[badger]

Who GAS? I never buy their junk anyway

that's probably a very healthy decision. even if they do go through with liquidation, methinks there's too much of a market out there for ho-hos, ding dongs and other moronic named junk food for them to go away. Bankruptcy auctions will probably go high for the recipes.

[olevetonahill]

that's probably a very healthy decision. even if they do go through with liquidation, methinks there's too much of a market out there for ho-hos, ding dongs and other moronic named junk food for them to go away. Bankruptcy auctions will probably go high for the recipes.

Heh, I make my own junk :welcoming:

[SicEmBaylor]

If you don't have a job then how can you hate unions? If you have never had a union job then what do you know about unions?

Observation? I didn't have a job at the Constitutional Convention either, but I know a thing or two about it. What a silly observation.

Having said that, if I did have job for which there was a labor union then I would not join which, thank god, would be my right since I live in a 'right to work' state.

[olevetonahill]

Observation? I didn't have a job at the Constitutional Convention either, but I know a thing or two about it. What a silly observation.

Having said that, if I did have job for which there was a labor union then I would not join which, thank god, would be my right since I live in a 'right to work' state.

Mississippi is a right to werk?

[SicEmBaylor]

Mississippi is a right to werk?

I don't live in Mississippi. I haven't in almost 2 years.

[SicEmBaylor]

...but, yes, MS is a right to work state.

[badger]

Most states in this region are right-to-work states. Here's a map (i did not create the caption)
http://www.nrtw.org/files/nrtw/RTW23_NRTWC.gif

There are many strong unions in this area, even in a right-to-work state. I think it's a myth that "right to work" threatens unions because of that. People that want to join still join and they join en masse.

[KantoSooner]

Interesting. This map coincides almost perfectly with Dem/Rep popular vote. I wonder if the enforced contributions by forcibly unionized workers to the Dem party in those states has anything to do with that?
Just an observation.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't live in Mississippi. I haven't in almost 2 years.Tell us again, pls., how that situation ended. It didn't seem like you were in Vicksburg, or going to school at Ole Miss very long.

[olevetonahill]

I don't live in Mississippi. I haven't in almost 2 years.
I want the Paul Harvey version of this story




Interesting. This map coincides almost perfectly with Dem/Rep popular vote. I wonder if the enforced contributions by forcibly unionized workers to the Dem party in those states has anything to do with that?
Just an observation.

You noticed that too huh?

[SicEmBaylor]

The hoes are better in OK.

[cleller]

I have a brother in Vicksburg. If he had been there in 1863 things would have gone very differently.

I like Natchez way better, though

[badger]

Well boys, it's 4 p.m. (5 p.m. eastern, 4 p.m. Oklahoma).

I wonder if either Hostess side caved yet.

[SicEmBaylor]

I have a brother in Vicksburg. If he had been there in 1863 things would have gone very differently.
If only. =(


I like Natchez way better, though
Aside from Vicksburg Battlefield which was always my favorite battlefield as a kid (Petersburg comes in a close 2nd), I prefer Natchez as well.

My sister is named after D'Evereux plantation in Natchez.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If only. =(


Aside from Vicksburg Battlefield which was always my favorite battlefield as a kid (Petersburg comes in a close 2nd), I prefer Natchez as well.

My sister is named after D'Evereux plantation in Natchez.Srsly, what is the story on the move from Vicksburg to OK or Waco again or wherever you went? I honestly never have read it before.

[diverdog]

I have a brother in Vicksburg. If he had been there in 1863 things would have gone very differently.

I like Natchez way better, though

They would have surrendered the first day?

[MountainOkie]

If only. =(


Aside from Vicksburg Battlefield which was always my favorite battlefield as a kid (Petersburg comes in a close 2nd), I prefer Natchez as well.

My sister is named after D'Evereux plantation in Natchez.

I've heard Shiloh is beautiful in the spring.

I like the diorama of the Battle of Atlanta most myself.

[SicEmBaylor]

I've heard Shiloh is beautiful in the spring.

I like the diorama of the Battle of Atlanta most myself.

I haven't been in the spring, but it's beautiful in the Fall. It's hot as hell and there are a bajillion mosquitos in the summer.

[cleller]

They would have surrendered the first day?

There woulda been Yankees broken in half like matchsticks floating down the river.

[diverdog]

There woulda been Yankees broken in half like matchsticks floating down the river.

Cleller:

When the North decided to get really serious about the war they could have beat the South with one hand tied behind their back. The only reason and I mean the only reason the South can have all these modern day fantasies is because Sherman and Grant begged Washington to have a soft peace with the South. Had this been England there would have been tens of thousands of Southerners hunted down and killed for treason.

[diverdog]

Looks like Hostess is folding. They have asked a court to allow themselves to close and sell their assets.

[pphilfran]

I haven't been able to find anything new...have a link?

[pphilfran]

CNN reported they are liquidating and selling off the brands....immediate shutdown of all operations once inventory is sold...

[Harry Beanbag]

Unions. **** yeah!!!

[cleller]

Cleller:

When the North decided to get really serious about the war they could have beat the South with one hand tied behind their back. The only reason and I mean the only reason the South can have all these modern day fantasies is because Sherman and Grant begged Washington to have a soft peace with the South. Had this been England there would have been tens of thousands of Southerners hunted down and killed for treason.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah and a Carpet Bag....

I was really just commenting on the aura of my oldest brother. He's 12 years older, and a cross between Marshall Dillon and The Rifleman, with a touch of Tony Soprano when angered. I would have swum up the Mississippi to avoid him. So would any sensible Yank.

[pphilfran]

Unions. **** yeah!!!

This was more than just a union problem...three years ago the union voted in lower pay and higher benefit costs...and now they were asked to accept another cut of 20% or so in total compensation...the company continued to bleed red ink...mostly due to increased low cost competition (Little Debbie and generic brands)...

Their bread brand (Wonder) is in a category that is loaded with too many brands and little chance of raising prices due to the many competitors fighting for limited shelf space...

[sappstuf]

CNN reported they are liquidating and selling off the brands....immediate shutdown of all operations once inventory is sold...

http://www.naderlibrary.com/ghostbust.136d.gif

[pphilfran]

I am not sure who will buy up the snack rights...

I would imagine Mrs Bairds (Grupo Bimbo, Mexican owned..pronounced BEEM BO) will snatch up the Wonder bread side...but that is just speculation on my part...

[Wishboned]

Little Debbie pimp slapped the HoHo's.

[badger]

It's sad, but I don't blame the unions on this one. They had 18,500 employees and only 5,000 were unionized. Plants were still in operation despite the strikes. Hostess was going under regardless.

[Sooner98]

So, 19,000 employees just lost their jobs because of their own greed. Oh well, at least they forced their evil bosses to liquidate and go into bankruptcy, so there's that.

Well played, unemployed union members. Well played.

[cleller]

While I do not support unions at all, I think the management has a lot of blame here, too. I've read some reports of how they sold off plants for real estate to realize quick profits, failed to maintain their truck fleet and ended up racking up huge rental truck bills, and were planning to fire up to 30% of employees anyway.

What a mess. I rarely bought any of their stuff because it was overpriced already, but it was the best of the lot.

I'm guessing no private equity firms were even interested, maybe because the place was such a disaster. Just a guess, though.

[pphilfran]

So, 19,000 employees just lost their jobs because of their own greed. Oh well, at least they forced their evil bosses to liquidate and go into bankruptcy, so there's that.

Well played, unemployed union members. Well played.

If the CEO had taken the same type cuts as the bakers then they might still be in business...but his own greed caused a backlash from the troops...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204369404577211410150254418.html

Hostess Brands Inc. is seeking court permission for a new employment deal that would hand millions of dollars to Chief Executive Brian J. Driscoll, "architect" of the company's plan to cut costs and jettison its pension plans.

In court papers filed Tuesday, the company asked a judge to bless an agreement that would guarantee Mr. Driscoll $1.5 million in a yearly base salary plus annual cash incentives and a "long-term incentive compensation award of up to" $2 million.

The papers didn't disclose the exact amount of the annual cash incentives and a spokesman for the company declined to provide more ...

[pphilfran]

Or, how it appears the executive jacked up their annual compensation just prior to filing their second bankruptcy...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304072004577323993512506050.html?K EYWORDS=hostess

Creditors of Hostess Brands Inc. said in court papers the company may have "manipulated" its executives' salaries higher in the months leading up to its Chapter 11 filing, in what the creditors called a possible effort by Hostess to "sidestep" Bankruptcy Code compensation provisions.

The committee representing Hostess's unsecured creditors alleges that information it has gathered suggests "the possibility" that the company converted a chunk of its top executives' pay from performance-based bonuses to salary, "at least in part to sidestep" rules designed to ensure that companies in bankruptcy aren't enticing their employees to stay on board with the promise ...

The Teamsters take http://www.teamster.org/content/dow-jones-uncovers-alleged-looting-hostess-amid-talk-%E2%80%98shared-sacrifice%E2%80%99-execs

Unsecured creditors suspect that Hostess Brands Inc. may have "manipulated" its executives' pay--sending its former chief executive's salary, in particular, skyrocketing- in the months leading up to its Chapter 11 filing, in an effort to dodge the Bankruptcy Code's compensation requirements, according to a redacted court filing reviewed by Dow Jones.

The official committee representing Hostess's unsecured creditors wants to launch a formal investigation in the bankruptcy case, hoping to dig deeper into the bakery company's senior executive compensation. The information the group has already gathered suggests "the possibility" that the company converted a chunk of its top executives' pay from performance-based bonuses to guaranteed salary, "at least in part to sidestep" rules designed to ensure that companies in bankruptcy aren't enticing their employees to stay on board with the promise of cash.

"As such, the debtors' continued payment of the executives' salaries in these increased amounts may violate the Bankruptcy Code," the unsecured creditors said in documents that were filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in White Plains, N.Y., but largely redacted. Dow Jones was able to view those details because when the papers were saved to a word-processing program, the redactions disappeared.

A spokesman for Hostess dismissed the creditors' allegations.

"We do not believe their theory has any basis in law," he said. "Nevertheless, we are working cooperatively with the committee to address their concerns and expect to resolve this amicably."

In court papers, the creditors say testimony from Hostess's executive vice president of human resources indicates that "in the run-up to bankruptcy"--when Hostess had already hired bankruptcy attorneys--it was also working to shift its compensation structure. Hostess slashed bonuses payable only if certain performance goals were met and, on July 26, the company's compensation committee signed off on "substantial salary increases for numerous senior executives," the creditors said, calling the jumps "dramatic."

Hostess's then-CEO, Brian Driscoll, saw his salary rise to $2.55 million from $750,000--a 300% increase.

"Other executives' salaries were increased by from 35% to 80%," the creditors said.

While Driscoll--who abruptly abandoned his post at Hostess's helm last month, leaving a restructuring expert to take his place--ultimately refused a portion of the salary bump, others seem to have kept the funds, the creditors said. They noted that the company continues to pay the prebankruptcy salary increases, no piece of which was "made contingent upon any aspect of the debtors' business performance or operations."

Hostess's own compensation consultant noted "that the increased salaries were not incentive compensation at all," the creditors said, and urged the company to tie the payments to company performance and wrap them into an incentive plan once Hostess filed for bankruptcy. But Hostess "disregarded" the suggestion, the creditors said, and also failed to disclose that it had tweaked the executives' pay in the six months leading up to the bankruptcy. The creditors only learned of the changes during a February deposition of the human resources executive.

"The committee viewed this testimony with grave concern," the creditor group said. It sought more information, but Hostess "refused to cooperate."

The creditors are now turning to the bankruptcy court for help, seeking a judge's clearance to launch a formal probe. They want access to documents regarding the compensation changes, minutes of meetings of the board of directors and the compensation committee and documents from the outside compensation consultant brought on by Hostess, among other information.

Hostess's Chapter 11 case has been stalled for the last several weeks as the company and its unions continue to negotiate behind closed doors and both sides prepare for an April 17 trial over the company's request to shed its collective bargaining agreements in bankruptcy.

On Tuesday, the company filed a request for more time to propose a bankruptcy-exit plan, saying it couldn't move forward with a Chapter 11 proposal until it makes headway with regards to its labor issues and attempt to nab new capital. The company noted that it has launched a "parallel process" to pursue a sale of its assets "as a failsafe," should Hostess not obtain the changes it wants to its union deals.

The maker of Twinkies and Wonder Bread, which filed for bankruptcy in January, had long said it was actively searching for potential new investors and buyers but had resisted calls from creditors to launch a full-blown sale process before it dealt with its union issues.

(Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review covers news about distressed companies and those under bankruptcy protection.)

-By Rachel Feintzeig, Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review;

[badger]

Yeah, there was definitely exec shenanigans going on. I really do hope, as the Tulsa union lead suggested, that a new owner comes in and buys the plant and the workers get a better deal afterward.

However, there's been a lot of plant closures nationwide, not necessarily in the baking industry, but in general. It might be wishful thinking to think that their knight in shining armor is just waiting to give them their jobs and their pensions back. :(

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Way to go ****ing unions.... I bet all 300 or so of you in the Bakers Union are real proud of the 18,200 you just unemployed...**** yeah! Unions! how about **** Off dip****s!

[SoonerorLater]

I think these folks are soon going to wake up to the huge mistake they just made. It is not likely they will ever find a job making what they were even with the concessions.

[badger]

I think these folks are soon going to wake up to the huge mistake they just made. It is not likely they will ever find a job making what they were even with the concessions.

I have no idea how much they were making, but they did take concessions recently and were unwilling to concede repeatedly.

Regardless of who is at fault or who should feel bad about whoever's actions or inactions... it's a month till Christmas and a week till Thanksgiving. So, it's sad all around :(

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Badg, I agree. You got a beef with the management and think fraud occurred, file a complaint with the SEC or police. Don't unemploy 18,500 or so because you don't like where the management was going...

Sadly, I saw this before in Fond du Lac, WI. A tanning company that had been around for 100 years or so in FdL went under after the unions went on strike and would not return. After repeated attempts to come to an agreement, they shut down the company after a year or so on strike.

[SoonerorLater]

I just don't get it. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, this is it. IMO the smarter avenue is to accept the concessions and look for another job if you are unhappy. They shouldn't be worried about management compensation. How does being unemployed rectify any perceived injustice? The only thing this does it put them out of work.

[sappstuf]

Looks like the Teamsters are blaming BCTGM union more than management.


In fact, when Hostess attempted to throw out its collective bargaining agreement with the Teamsters in court, the Teamsters fought back and won, ensuring that Hostess could not unilaterally make changes to working conditions during the several months’ long legal process that recently ended. Teamster Hostess members were allowed to decide their fate by voting on the final offer conducted by a secret mail ballot. More than two-thirds of Hostess Teamsters members voted with 53 percent voting to approve the final offer.

The BCTGM chose a different path, as is their prerogative, to not substantively look for a solution or engage in the process. BCTGM members were told there were better solutions than the final offer, although Judge Drain stated in his decision in bankruptcy court that no such solutions exist. Without complete information, BCTGM members voted by voice votes in union halls. The BCTGM reported that over 90 percent rejected the final offer and three of its units ratified the final offer.

On Friday, Nov. 9, the BCTGM began to strike at some Hostess production facilities without notice to the Teamsters despite assurances they would not proceed with job actions without contacting the Teamsters Union. This unannounced action put Teamster members in the difficult position of facing picket lines without knowing their right to honor such a line without being disciplined.

As is our longstanding tradition, Teamster members by and large are honoring Bakery Worker picket lines when encountered and complying with their contractual obligations when not encountering picket lines. The BCTGM leaders are putting Teamster members in a horrible position – asking them to support a strike that will put them out of a job when they haven’t even asked all their members to go on strike.

That strike is now on the verge of forcing the company to liquidate – it is difficult for Teamster members to believe that is what the BCTGM Hostess members ultimately wanted to accomplish when they went out on strike. We may never know unless the BCTGM members, based on the facts they know today, get to determine their fate in a secret ballot vote. Teamster members would understand that the will of the BCTGM Hostess membership was truly heard if that was the case.

http://www.teamster.org/content/teamsters-bakery-workers-should-hold-secret-ballot-vote-hostess

[kevpks]

I just don't get it. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, this is it. IMO the smarter avenue is to accept the concessions and look for another job if you are unhappy. They shouldn't be worried about management compensation. How does being unemployed rectify any perceived injustice? The only thing this does it put them out of work.

Good point. I guess it's easier to look for a job (or not) while collecting unemployment checks.

[diverdog]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah and a Carpet Bag....

I was really just commenting on the aura of my oldest brother. He's 12 years older, and a cross between Marshall Dillon and The Rifleman, with a touch of Tony Soprano when angered. I would have swum up the Mississippi to avoid him. So would any sensible Yank.

That's cool. Sorry for not getting that part.

[diverdog]

I just don't get it. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, this is it. IMO the smarter avenue is to accept the concessions and look for another job if you are unhappy. They shouldn't be worried about management compensation. How does being unemployed rectify any perceived injustice? The only thing this does it put them out of work.

Happens all the time. Do you remember Midway Airlines or Allaghany?

[C&CDean]

Besides, is squirting the jizz into a twinkie really worth $37.50 an hour + bennies? Union thinks so.

[pphilfran]

Besides, is squirting the jizz into a twinkie really worth $37.50 an hour + bennies? Union thinks so.

I seriously doubt if they were making that much...do you have a link to their compensation?

[Wishboned]

Besides, is squirting the jizz into a twinkie really worth $37.50 an hour + bennies? Union thinks so.

Average pay for a baker at the Hostess plant in Kansas is $30,000 a year. About $14.50 an hour.

[cvsooner]

Lots and lots of misinformation on Hostess...which filed for bankruptcy in 2004 and emerged deeper in debt than it entered.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/11/16/fox-ignores-hostess-array-of-troubles-to-scapeg/191440

[Turd_Ferguson]

Average pay for a baker at the Hostess plant in Kansas is $30,000 a year. About $14.50 an hour.and out of the 18,500 how many had that pay rate?

[sappstuf]

I wish Obama would have deemed Hostess, "Too delicious to fail"...

[okie52]

I wish Obama would have deemed Hostess, "Too delicious to fail"...


No Bailout?

[C&CDean]

I seriously doubt if they were making that much...do you have a link to their compensation?

Dude, who cares? Paying anything more than minimum wage for somebody who pushes a button over and over again all day is too much.

The $37.50 number was from a GM plant. Guy reads a book all day, torques the same 4 bolts on a vehicle as it passes by on the assembly line, then goes back to reading. And he's pissed cause they're closing the plant. His job was worth about $6.50 an hour. Max.

[sappstuf]

No Bailout?

No, and I'm surprised.. Looking at this picture, which person would you describe as a "Twinkie"?

http://www.countingcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/reagan-obama-thumb.jpg

[Wishboned]

and out of the 18,500 how many had that pay rate?

I'm going to guess since I said baker that it was just the bakers.

[pphilfran]

Dude, who cares? Paying anything more than minimum wage for somebody who pushes a button over and over again all day is too much.

The $37.50 number was from a GM plant. Guy reads a book all day, torques the same 4 bolts on a vehicle as it passes by on the assembly line, then goes back to reading. And he's pissed cause they're closing the plant. His job was worth about $6.50 an hour. Max.

I worked for years in heavy manufacturing...most jobs are no longer the low tech "bolt tightener" type jobs....I never worked for any of the Big 3 but I did spend several weeks at a time as an outside consultant of product problems and can tell you they are worth far more than 6.50 an hour....

I will take a minimum of a month to learn the basics of most jobs...and then several more months to become proficient...not only are the responsible for the building of he product but also involved in the waste control and quality of he product leaving their station...and they tend to have to bust their azz to meet quota expectation...and they do this on mutli million dollar machines that they are responsible for...


Now if you wish to talk about excessive compensation we can discuss the local postal worker that pokes along while a long line of waiting customers are starting to boil...and the hardest thing he has to do is pull out a sheet of stamps or weigh a package and read a scale....6.50 an hour is far more than they deserve....

I am just ****ing with you...I know very little about the postal service and have no idea of the expertise that is needed in the organization...much like you not having a ****ing clue about the requirements of a manufacturing plant....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This was more than just a union problem...three years ago the union voted in lower pay and higher benefit costs...and now they were asked to accept another cut of 20% or so in total compensation...the company continued to bleed red ink...mostly due to increased low cost competition (Little Debbie and generic brands)...

Their bread brand (Wonder) is in a category that is loaded with too many brands and little chance of raising prices due to the many competitors fighting for limited shelf space...So, the obvious solution is for union employees to quit, then go to work for their competitors, who are no doubt paying bigger salaries. haha

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So, 19,000 employees just lost their jobs because of their own greed. Oh well, at least they forced their evil bosses to liquidate and go into bankruptcy, so there's that.

Well played, unemployed union members. Well played.It really is complicated, ain't it?!?!?

[pphilfran]

Actually, no...

Most of those companies are selling off the routes as franchises so they don't have to **** with most of the expenses and headaches...

[8timechamps]

Hostess was done in when they filed for bankruptcy. I don't think there was ever a real intent to save the company.

As for the Twinkie/Ho Ho lovers of the world, don't worry, someone will swoop in and buy up the profitable brands.


As for badger's comment on not investing in companies that sell junk food, I have to disagree. One of the best performing stocks I own is YUM brands (PepsiCo). It's pretty much nothing but fast food/junk food. As long as fast food locations exist, and people want convenience, they will be fine. The health fad is nothing new, and in developing markets, it's unheard of. KFC isn't going to close a store in Tokyo because a report says that fried chicken is bad for you. Like the Hostess deal, money is the ultimate driver.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think these folks are soon going to wake up to the huge mistake they just made. It is not likely they will ever find a job making what they were even with the concessions.D'Oh!!! Not to worry! They will vote democrat again, next opportunity.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'm going to guess since I said baker that it was just the bakers.So how many bakers were included in that 18,500 jackass?



j/k... :biggrin:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I just don't get it. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, this is it. IMO the smarter avenue is to accept the concessions and look for another job if you are unhappy. They shouldn't be worried about management compensation. How does being unemployed rectify any perceived injustice? The only thing this does it put them out of work.D'Oh! Why didn't they think of that?!?!?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No Bailout?He could have taken US Govt. ownership of hostess, given the shares to union members, and made tofu and watercress twinkies, stuffed with yogurt.

[SicEmBaylor]

He could have taken US Govt. ownership of hostess, given the shares to union members, and made tofu and watercress twinkies, stuffed with yogurt.

I don't Michele would support that.

[C&CDean]

I worked for years in heavy manufacturing...most jobs are no longer the low tech "bolt tightener" type jobs....I never worked for any of the Big 3 but I did spend several weeks at a time as an outside consultant of product problems and can tell you they are worth far more than 6.50 an hour....

I will take a minimum of a month to learn the basics of most jobs...and then several more months to become proficient...not only are the responsible for the building of he product but also involved in the waste control and quality of he product leaving their station...and they tend to have to bust their azz to meet quota expectation...and they do this on mutli million dollar machines that they are responsible for...


Now if you wish to talk about excessive compensation we can discuss the local postal worker that pokes along while a long line of waiting customers are starting to boil...and the hardest thing he has to do is pull out a sheet of stamps or weigh a package and read a scale....6.50 an hour is far more than they deserve....

I am just ****ing with you...I know very little about the postal service and have no idea of the expertise that is needed in the organization...much like you not having a ****ing clue about the requirements of a manufacturing plant....

Heh.

I actually do know a little about manufacturing plants and there are several gigs in some of them that are absolutely minimum wage jobs. I remember visiting the GM plant in OKC several times. Some of the jobs that were being done could be done just as well with a 9-year old and a 5-minute block of instruction. These were jobs these people did ALL day, EVERY day. Union made sure of that. No crossing crafts and such.

I'm actually kinda with you on the USPS deal. 3 unions have got them on their knees. They are wising up a little here lately though.

And just so you know, the average window clerk has to know a scheme - or several schemes (a section of a town where they know every address), case mail up into said schemes, be able to count money, deal with irate *******s who have been standing in line for an hour, go help unload the truck, deliver an express mail package or 6 when needed, know the prices on a myriad of products, and even sometimes step into the role of the Postmaster where you have responsibility for thousands of dollars in product/cash.

My daughter-in-law recently started at the Norman office as a clerk. I believe her pay is $14.50 per hour, no bennies until she is there for a year. Something in that neighborhood. I believe new mail carriers are making somewhere in the $19-20 per hour range. Mail carriers have to know/do a lot of ****. Ain't a job for everybody.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I knew guy's that worked at the OKC GM plant that took pillows to work with them. They all retired before the plant closed. ****'n unions.

[pphilfran]

I knew guy's that worked at the OKC GM plant that took pillows to work with them. They all retired before the plant closed. ****'n unions.


There is some of that in most plants...In Tyler there was a trucker that brought in his lunch box on a dolly....it would take me an 8 hour shift just to eat what he trucked in each day....

[soonercruiser]

No Bailout?

Sorry Okie!
Hostess didn't have anything with Green filling.
:neglected:

[soonercruiser]

I worked for years in heavy manufacturing...most jobs are no longer the low tech "bolt tightener" type jobs....I never worked for any of the Big 3 but I did spend several weeks at a time as an outside consultant of product problems and can tell you they are worth far more than 6.50 an hour....

I will take a minimum of a month to learn the basics of most jobs...and then several more months to become proficient...not only are the responsible for the building of he product but also involved in the waste control and quality of he product leaving their station...and they tend to have to bust their azz to meet quota expectation...and they do this on mutli million dollar machines that they are responsible for...


Now if you wish to talk about excessive compensation we can discuss the local postal worker that pokes along while a long line of waiting customers are starting to boil...and the hardest thing he has to do is pull out a sheet of stamps or weigh a package and read a scale....6.50 an hour is far more than they deserve....

I am just ****ing with you...I know very little about the postal service and have no idea of the expertise that is needed in the organization...much like you not having a ****ing clue about the requirements of a manufacturing plant....

Speaking of the Post Office.....
We made fun of the $5 Billion loss last year....we!
This year the USPS lost over $15 Billion!
:frog: Maybe Kermit can come to the rescue.

[okie52]

No, and I'm surprised.. Looking at this picture, which person would you describe as a "Twinkie"?

http://www.countingcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/reagan-obama-thumb.jpg

Hah...shades of Dukakis.

[badger]

Hostess update: There are reports out there now that in addition to wanting to close down the company, they are also asking for up to $1.75 mil in executive compensation. As you can imagine, the union is furious.

[FirstandGoal]

But the important question is what's going to happen to twinkie availability?

[Midtowner]

Hostess update: There are reports out there now that in addition to wanting to close down the company, they are also asking for up to $1.75 mil in executive compensation. As you can imagine, the union is furious.

Yeah, after HUGE increases to executive pay over the last couple of years. They were planning for this and increasing their salaries exponentially to try to derive some benefit through that in bankruptcy. This is basically looting.

[KantoSooner]

Once the beast is dead, it's every man for himself and to the swift go the spoils.

You're right it's basically looting, but once the unions and management decided that they weren't going to keep the thing alive and the major shareholders did nothing about it, it was game over.

At that point, the company is no more than a stack of money on a table. What the government doesn't lock up is fair game. If you aren't bright enough to shoulder your way up close, you probably won't learn, in this life, what good wine tastes like.

[Soonerjeepman]

now I read some Mexican millionaire wants to buy them...or the rights at least.

Meh, ANOTHER American icon gone to foreign investment~

On the flip side, why doesn't the union buy the company and run it? They could be in total control then. Supposedly they have it for sale for a few years but no buyers...maybe because the union issues? just sayin...

[KantoSooner]

I hadn't heard, but if the prospective buyer is Bimbo from Mexico, that makes huge sense. Bimbo could take the brands, move them to their own plants (they are the largest baker in the world and already the largest in the US, I believe, they've got plenty of plants that could take over this production/distribution.)
And they could then sell off the equipment and buildings and not have to hire a single one of the strikers.

[badger]

I read that on drudge too, but as noted, there's sugar tariffs (to protect Florida sugar growers) that may stand in the way of foreign involvement. It may be more cost sensitive to keep the plants in the U.S. going, but with reduced labor costs.

The judge has now ordered mediation between the union and company, saying that he's perplexed that there wasn't objection filed on the company's last offer to the union, but that they immediately went into strike formation after voting it down instead.

[pphilfran]

I hadn't heard, but if the prospective buyer is Bimbo from Mexico, that makes huge sense. Bimbo could take the brands, move them to their own plants (they are the largest baker in the world and already the largest in the US, I believe, they've got plenty of plants that could take over this production/distribution.)
And they could then sell off the equipment and buildings and not have to hire a single one of the strikers.

On page 5 I mentioned Bimbo as a possible buyer....I think they might need fed approval to buy them since they have such a large market share (anti trust)...they took over Sara Lee a few years ago and were forced to sell off some of the Sara Lee brands to make the deal go through...so on second thought it ain't gonna be Bimbo...

I have heard that Frito Lay wants the snack food brands bad (Hostess/ Dolly)....really bad...

[pphilfran]

now I read some Mexican millionaire wants to buy them...or the rights at least.

Meh, ANOTHER American icon gone to foreign investment~

On the flip side, why doesn't the union buy the company and run it? They could be in total control then. Supposedly they have it for sale for a few years but no buyers...maybe because the union issues? just sayin...

Too many bread brands and too little shelf space....

[Soonerjeepman]

Too many bread brands and too little shelf space....

prob...really could care less, don't buy their stuff...TRYING to be healthy...lol

[sappstuf]

18K jobs that will never come back to our country.

[KantoSooner]

Badger, Bimbo is already in the US with literally 100's of plants/distribution points. They wouldn't be moving anything across the border. So sugar tariffs wouldn't affect them at all. PPFran is probably closer that anti-trust would maybe kick in, But they could likely lose some dog lines they got from previous acquisitions and keep the cream (pun intended) of Hostess' operations.
I'm not sure there is anyone else in the baking biz in Mexico who is big enough to pull this off.

[KantoSooner]

18K jobs that will never come back to our country.

18 k jobs that will go nowhere. They will just cease to be. The Mexicans won't move production to Mexico, they'll just do it in plants they already own here.

The unions outsmarted themselves on this one.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Heh. Bimbo

[badger]

By the way, all of this cream and bakery and junk food talk reminds me of the Sweet Adelines (yes, badger was once in a show choir with older to middle-aged ladies in rural Wisconsin at one point in her high school life) fundraiser. During the county fair, we'd:

1- Borrow HS cafeteria
2- Whip cream from scratch
3- Bake shells
4- Fill shells with cream
5- Sprinkle powdered sugar on top
6- PROFIT!!!!!

It was tons of fun and made tons of money. Whoever started the "bake sale" phenomenon as a fundraiser was onto something, but the nice old lady who said "People like cream puffs, let's do that" was REALLY onto something!

All it took was some free, non-union volunteer labor to make money... but honestly, we could have turned that into a full-time thing and made TONS of money, union or not.

Makes you wonder why this couldn't have worked out with Hostess.

[olevetonahill]

Heh. Bimbo

What im tryin to figure out is when did my Ex wives learn to bake any dayum thing

[olevetonahill]

Not so fast my friends

Judge in New York orders em to the mediation table .

Judge orders Hostess, union to mediation; liquidation halted for now

Read more: http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/judge-orders-hostess-union-to-mediation-liquidation-halted-for-now#ixzz2Ci98sUpO

[Midtowner]

Mediation? Unless they can settle their differences--execs taking huge pay increases and the union not backing down, mediation is a waste of time.

[olevetonahill]

Mediation? Unless they can settle their differences--execs taking huge pay increases and the union not backing down, mediation is a waste of time.

Tell it to the Judge , I dont GAS either way

[OUinFLA]

Tell it to the Judge , I dont GAS either way

Ho Ho hater

[Turd_Ferguson]

**** the union thugs...

[olevetonahill]

Ho Ho hater

I luvs me some Hos, Its those Twinkees I aint gonna let be around me

[pphilfran]

Badger, Bimbo is already in the US with literally 100's of plants/distribution points. They wouldn't be moving anything across the border. So sugar tariffs wouldn't affect them at all. PPFran is probably closer that anti-trust would maybe kick in, But they could likely lose some dog lines they got from previous acquisitions and keep the cream (pun intended) of Hostess' operations.
I'm not sure there is anyone else in the baking biz in Mexico who is big enough to pull this off.

Gruma is a monster but they are more into torlilla and chips (MIssion)...a couple of years ago they were the worlds largest buyer of corn (more than Frito Lay)...not sure if that still holds true today...

[FirstandGoal]

Heh. Bimbo


So you saying that Bimbo will be making Ho Hos?

[olevetonahill]

So you saying that Bimbo will be making Ho Hos?

Im Racist tho, I want White Ho Hos

[Turd_Ferguson]

Im Racist tho, I want White Ho HosThat's called divinity...you racist bastard!

[olevetonahill]

That's called divinity...you racist bastard!

Ok Ok , Hos is definitely Divine
( as long as they white)

[badger]

Update: The mediation failed, which I'm sure surprised many of you... *wink*

Now time to find buyers during liquidation. It will be interesting to see who gets the leftover assets -- employee pensions or exec pay?

A few cartoons that show basically what happened:
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/62/2012/11/17/122567_600.jpg
http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/205/2012/11/16/122520_600.jpg

Right before Christmas... so sad... 18,000+ jobs gone and it was only about one-third of the striking union that will be blamed for it. I know they were inevitably gone anyway, but they probably could have gone longer had the strike not half-shut down production :(

[StoopTroup]

Mediation? Unless they can settle their differences--execs taking huge pay increases and the union not backing down, mediation is a waste of time.

It's funny how it seems the people complaining about all of this don't work at Hostess.

Will it really be such a loss if these products disappear from the shelves? I can't remember the last time I ate anything made by Hostess. I hate to see folks lose their jobs but it might be that this could be a blessing for many of them. That's has to be a pretty sh*tty job to take them to the mat like that.

[SicEmBaylor]

It's funny how it seems the people complaining about all of this don't work at Hostess.

Will it really be such a loss if these products disappear from the shelves? I can't remember the last time I ate anything made by Hostess. I hate to see folks lose their jobs but it might be that this could be a blessing for many of them. That's has to be a pretty sh*tty job to take them to the mat like that.

You have a long history of saying some of the stupidest things that I have ever had the misfortune of reading, but this statement takes the cake (pun intended).

[LiveLaughLove]

It's funny how it seems the people complaining about all of this don't work at Hostess.

Will it really be such a loss if these products disappear from the shelves? I can't remember the last time I ate anything made by Hostess. I hate to see folks lose their jobs but it might be that this could be a blessing for many of them. That's has to be a pretty sh*tty job to take them to the mat like that.

I think 18,000 people right before Christmas sucks personally. Don't know how you can sugar coat it (also pun intended).

Interestingly, most of the people running it were Dems, Richard Gephardt for the win. And the union of course is Dems. Yet I read a story that actually blamed <drum roll> Mitt Romney for the closing.

Just wow. The media in America doesn't even pretend to be just journalists any longer.

Look at the bright side, at least they didn't blame Bush.

[olevetonahill]

I think 18,000 people right before Christmas sucks personally. Don't know how you can sugar coat it (also pun intended).

Interestingly, most of the people running it were Dems, Richard Gephardt for the win. And the union of course is Dems. Yet I read a story that actually blamed <drum roll> Mitt Romney for the closing.

Just wow. The media in America doesn't even pretend to be just journalists any longer.

Look at the bright side, at least they didn't blame Bush.

The Union members said By Gawd they dint take a cut in pay , Forcing 18K out of work including yourself is not taking a CUT? WTF are they smokin

[rock on sooner]

What im tryin to figure out is when did my Ex wives learn to bake any dayum thing

Hell, they did, Vet, right after they shucked you! Dint you figger that yet?:biggrin:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

$0 Money/ less money for the work, is a raise, of course, since taxpayers will now float the former employees, and THEY WON'T HAVE TO WORK A LICK!

[rock on sooner]

On a serious note, the unions seems to think that, by Gawd, we'll win
when we shut the place down. Epically stupid, imo! Now, what does
18500 folks do?

[olevetonahill]

Hell, they did, Vet, right after they shucked you! Dint you figger that yet?:biggrin:

Bitches, Man Bitches

[olevetonahill]

On a serious note, the unions seems to think that, by Gawd, we'll win
when we shut the place down. Epically stupid, imo! Now, what does
18500 folks do?

Go with out a Jorb cause By dayum gawd they ****in "WON"

[rock on sooner]

Go with out a Jorb cause By dayum gawd they ****in "WON"

Merry Christmas, union, long ago you were worth something. Not any more.
Ifn I wuz a member and found the steward that said yeh, I'd so serious harm
about the head and shoulders, and then stand and wait fer the ambulance fer
tha idjit!

[sappstuf]

Looks like the Twinkie is on its way back!

Without the unions of course...


Have Twinkies Killed the Union Movement? (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100678728)

Original Twinkies are coming back—but under new management—and with a vow to use nonunion workers.

Some five months after Hostess shut down over a standoff with its unions, the restructured company is expecting to put its snacks back on store shelves in the coming months.

The Hostess closing left more than 18,000 people out of work across the country—with the vast majority belonging to the Teamsters and the Bakery Union.

[badger]

That company was in serious trouble with or without the union. Even if the union conceded again that company would have still gone under.

Can unions still come back? Perhaps not at the level they once were, but with renewed focus on the people they serve, rather than the people on top, perhaps...kind of like the Republican party?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If Hostess lets the unions operate there again, the company will fail again.

[StoopTroup]

If Hostess lets the unions operate there again, the company will fail again.

How many Companies have you lost because your employees unionized?