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pphilfran
11/12/2012, 04:41 PM
http://www.fixthedebt.org/who-we-are

This is Simpson/Bowles rising from the ashes...

Please sign their petition


The Citizen's Petition to Fix the Debt


America is more than $16 trillion in debt, creating a catastrophic threat to our security and economy.


Thankfully, we can prevent disaster and renew economic strength. Add your name to join Americans everywhere in demanding that your leaders in Washington FIX the DEBT:


By signing the Fix the Debt petition we are telling Congress and the President:


The Time To Act Is Now Immediate action must be taken to reverse the ballooning debt. Congress and the President have deferred this decision too long. The upcoming “fiscal cliff” provides an opportunity to replace the drastic, automatic tax hikes and spending cuts with a gradual and intelligent plan. The principles of the Campaign to Fix the Debt provide guidance on how to move forward.

America’s Debt Is Unsustainable The United States’ debt is over $16 trillion, and growing by more than $1 trillion per year. Mounting debt will lead to higher interest rates, lower wage growth, and an eventual economic crisis.

A Solution Must Address All Parts of the Budget Any realistic solution to our budget problems must cut out wasteful and low priority spending, must slow the growth of unsustainable entitlement costs, and must simplify the tax code and eliminate loopholes through pro-growth and revenue-positive tax reform. The bipartisan proposal from the Simpson-Bowles National Commission On Fiscal Responsibility and Reform should serve as a starting point for a plan to reduce the federal debt by more than $4 trillion over ten years.

Protect America’s Core Values: Fixing the Debt must be phased in gradually to protect the fragile economic recovery, improve economic growth and prosperity, and protect our most vulnerable.

Find Common Ground: Put rigid ideologies aside. Pivotal moments in America’s history have not been overcome by one party acting alone. This is such a moment, and any solution must be bipartisan.

Put National Interest Ahead of Special Interests A solution will require some sacrifice from all Americans; no special interest is exempt. We are willing to do our part and accept tough choices that affect us personally as part of a comprehensive plan in which everyone contributes their fair share. We want to make the country we love stronger. We want to Fix the Debt.

diverdog
11/12/2012, 04:43 PM
Phil, I wish I could make you a dictator for life.

pphilfran
11/12/2012, 04:50 PM
lol

FaninAma
11/12/2012, 04:52 PM
It won't work. Once the immediate crisis is averted both parties will go back to pandering to the voters and the voters do not want cutbacks and they do not want their taxes raised(they don't mind them raised on somebody else.)

The voters and by inferrence the politicians they elect do not have the discipline to phase in spending reductions.

No, this mess will be reolved when the value of the dollar falls much, much lower and inflation is destroying the middle and lower classes.

KantoSooner
11/12/2012, 05:02 PM
FaninAma,
Do you really believe what you've written? You've been saying in various ways in various threads that the voters, or the ordinary Joes who make up this country are too stupid and/or feckless to make decisions for the long term good of the country. True? If so, then you seem to have rejected everything that followed "We, the people..."
That's not a lonely position.
Most dictators and many -isms have been built on just such a proposition. (most involve some sort of central planning of the economy and societal relation. Planning by 'experts'.)
It just seems so very non-American.
Do you really think the election of Obama is some sort of proof that the entire American experiment has failed? And that involvement of the individual citizen in self-governance has gone with it?

soonercruiser
11/12/2012, 05:19 PM
It won't work. Once the immediate crisis is averted both parties will go back to pandering to the voters and the voters do not want cutbacks and they do not want their taxes raised(they don't mind them raised on somebody else.)

The voters and by inferrence the politicians they elect do not have the discipline to phase in spending reductions.

No, this mess will be reolved when the value of the dollar falls much, much lower and inflation is destroying the middle and lower classes.

THIS ^^^. Is sort of my take on the situation.
I watched a few of the moderates on both sides talk on FOX News Sunday - and there was still too much posturing and "qualifying" the points of agreement.

As long as we are a "split" country, there isn't much to be hopeful about.
Maybe someone will find a way for a divorce, so we can go our separate ways.
:apologetic:

soonercruiser
11/12/2012, 05:21 PM
FaninAma,
Do you really believe what you've written? You've been saying in various ways in various threads that the voters, or the ordinary Joes who make up this country are too stupid and/or feckless to make decisions for the long term good of the country. True? If so, then you seem to have rejected everything that followed "We, the people..."
That's not a lonely position.
Most dictators and many -isms have been built on just such a proposition. (most involve some sort of central planning of the economy and societal relation. Planning by 'experts'.)
It just seems so very non-American.
Do you really think the election of Obama is some sort of proof that the entire American experiment has failed? And that involvement of the individual citizen in self-governance has gone with it?

"Feckless"???

pphilfran
11/12/2012, 05:35 PM
It won't work. Once the immediate crisis is averted both parties will go back to pandering to the voters and the voters do not want cutbacks and they do not want their taxes raised(they don't mind them raised on somebody else.)

The voters and by inferrence the politicians they elect do not have the discipline to phase in spending reductions.

No, this mess will be reolved when the value of the dollar falls much, much lower and inflation is destroying the middle and lower classes.

Here is the deal....it is not going to be quite so easy to kick the can down the road this time....

They may still do it but far too many people are finally realizing the real problems we face....

You can bet that there are going to be tax increases and cuts in benefits...though my take is they will be far too small to really get the core problems resolved over the long term...

And once the populace sees those cuts and tax increases the chit is going to hit the fan...and that outrage is going to put the politicians in a real bind...

The next few years are going to be very interesting and if things are not handled properly both major parties are going to take a major hit....

diverdog
11/12/2012, 05:35 PM
THIS ^^^. Is sort of my take on the situation.
I watched a few of the moderates on both sides talk on FOX News Sunday - and there was still too much posturing and "qualifying" the points of agreement.

As long as we are a "split" country, there isn't much to be hopeful about.
Maybe someone will find a way for a divorce, so we can go our separate ways.
:apologetic:

We are not a split country. A sizable majority (2/3rds) of folks in this country agree we need to tax the rich, keep SS and Medicare.

pphilfran
11/12/2012, 05:51 PM
We are not a split country. A sizable majority (2/3rds) of folks in this country agree we need to tax the rich, keep SS and Medicare.

The problem is that both SS and Medicare are currently unsustainable over the long term...the people wanting to do nothing are only dooming both to insolvency...it might sound good to say they are off the table but which path is better...do nothing and watch them go broke...or make some simple changes to both and lengthen the time they are viable...Medicare is the real problem child, the rate of cost increase is going to be very difficult to resolve...SS is a piece of cake in comparison...

I am probably the only one that is in the "Don't worry about the deficit or debt" camp until we get GDP growth up to 4%..without that growth we will never get the revenue we need to get out of this mess...

Major cuts to the military (or any spending for that matter) would decimate entire sectors of the economy and would doom revenue...

Large tax increase would decimate the economy and would doom revenue...

We can increase the age limits on SS and Medicare and have little or no impact on the economy...
We can freeze spending at current levels (DD's idea) and let inflation slowly bring us in line...
Minimize our overseas troop concentrations and bring our boys (and girls) home...spend money on them here instead of a foreign country...that would be a no cost stimulus on it's own...
The only way to really get out of the ME is to get off they gawddamn oil...push, push, push domestic production of crude and NG...lots of high paying jobs and less money flowing to the Arabs...

Growing the economy does two things...increases revenue by having more people working and paying taxes (individual and corp)...lowers spending on those that are out of work...

Four or five years ago I said our economic decision must be correct or we face terrible consequences...and now here we are five years later staring the terrible consequences in the face...I hope our leadership has the resolve to take on the challenges and accept the heat they will face....