So now that the end is in sight, how do you survive?

[BigTip]

I am have never been so scared of the future as I am now. This election has just about guaranteed the end of this country as we know it. With Bernanke printing money as fast as he can, a stock market crash and uncontrollable inflation is inevitable. Small businesses will be forced to close because of Obamacare. It is going to get bad.

So what to do? Besides getting a weapon I mean. How do you survive an economic crisis on this scale?

I asked an Obama voting friend this question; "Do you think in four years there will be more or less people on food stamps?"
They said, "Less." I laughed.

So I am not talking to you that think I am talking crazy. I don't need to hear how wrong I am.

I know that strife is imminent. I don't know to what extent, but it is coming. How do we survive?

[JohnnyMack]

I say we eat the skinny people first.

[kevpks]

Glenn Beck said people should buy guns and farmland. It sounds like that type of advice might speak to your fears. I guess you could throw in gold or other precious metals if you think our currency is going to be worthless.

I don't believe we're headed for disaster, but that's what I'd do if I thought America was about to look like a Mad Max movie.

[SicEmBaylor]

I say we eat the skinny people first.

:(

[Curly Bill]

Picked up a new assault rifle yesterday. Even if I don't need it for the coming apocalypse it's sure to appreciate in value.

[SicEmBaylor]

Lenny Bruce is not afraid.

[BigTip]

Glenn Beck said people should buy guns and farmland. It sounds like that type of advice might speak to your fears. I guess you could throw in gold or other precious metals if you think our currency is going to be worthless.

I don't believe we're headed for disaster, but that's what I'd do if I thought America was about to look like a Mad Max movie.

Gold. Yes. Just things too. Yes, like assault rifles. Barter and trade prevails in hyper inflationary times.

I hope things don't go south, but they can. It is stupid to not realize that America will not survive as it is forever. No civilization has ever done so. And economic crises are what revolutions are born from. Just look at Greece. It is in turmoil. There is unrest in the streets. I repeat, it is stupid to say, "those things could never happen here." Look how ephemeral civilization was in New Orleans during Katrina. It does not take much for it to dissolve.

[Turd_Ferguson]

You can buy a really nice and very fun bb gun handgun to start learning to shoot with. Matter of fact...if you can ward off an attack with that....you won't even need a real gun.

[cleller]

I think it will just be a slow slide back to an age when people could not afford to live as they do now. Fewer cars, or at least fewer new cars, less eating out, fewer vacations, higher food prices.

People will be forced to do without at some point.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I think it will just be a slow slide back to an age when people could not afford to live as they do now. Fewer cars, or at least fewer new cars, less eating out, fewer vacations, higher food prices.

People will be forced to do without at some point.Which will turn into anarchy...

[JohnnyMack]

:(

Sorry buddy. We're gonna have to enslave the fat ones and eat the skinny ones. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here.

[diverdog]

I am have never been so scared of the future as I am now. This election has just about guaranteed the end of this country as we know it. With Bernanke printing money as fast as he can, a stock market crash and uncontrollable inflation is inevitable. Small businesses will be forced to close because of Obamacare. It is going to get bad.

So what to do? Besides getting a weapon I mean. How do you survive an economic crisis on this scale?

I asked an Obama voting friend this question; "Do you think in four years there will be more or less people on food stamps?"
They said, "Less." I laughed.

So I am not talking to you that think I am talking crazy. I don't need to hear how wrong I am.

I know that strife is imminent. I don't know to what extent, but it is coming. How do we survive?


People in this country need to chill the **** out. Jesus Christ this stuff has got to stop. WE ARE NOT GREECE! Anyone who thinks we are does not know what the hell they are talking about.

1. We have a tremendous capacity to raise taxes. Unlike Greece our effective tax rate is low. Half the people in this nation pay no taxes. We can raise taxes.

2, We have vast natural resources. Greece does not.

3. The bulk of our debt is held internally unlike Greece where it is held externally.

4. We have a massive military that can be cut. Simply bringing home most of our bases and forcing other nations to step up will reduce our deficit a lot.

5. We have a powerhouse economy and we can support our debt payments. Some corporations support debts that are many times their earnings. So do households. US economy gargantuan. Greece tiny.

6. We have the ability to cut spending in other areas.

7. Our debt can be solved with some political will and compromise on both sides.

8. The dollar is the worlds reserve currency. What will replace it? The yen?

9. We are a safe haven for investing because we have a stable government. If you have been to Greece you know how messed up it is.

10. People want to come here and live.


Finally we are Americans not Greeks. We work like dogs in this country, we are honest, and despite what you think we are among the most efficient and best educated in the world. The Greeks ......

[Turd_Ferguson]

People in this country need to chill the **** out. Jesus Christ this stuff has got to stop. WE ARE NOT GREECE! Anyone who thinks we are does not know what the hell they are talking about.

1. We have a tremendous capacity to raise taxes. Unlike Greece our effective tax rate is low. Half the people in this nation pay no taxes. We can raise taxes.

2, We have vast natural resources. Greece does not.

3. The bulk of our debt is held internally unlike Greece where it is held externally.

4. We have a massive military that can be cut. Simply bringing home most of our bases and forcing other nations to step up will reduce our deficit a lot.

5. We have a powerhouse economy and we can support our debt payments. Some corporations support debts that are many times their earnings. So do households.

6. We have the ability to cut spending in other areas.

7. Our debt can be solved with some political will and compromise on both sides.


Finally we are Americans not Greeks. We work like dogs in this country, we are honest, and despite what you think we are among the most efficient and best educated in the world. The Greeks ......

You've been in yanky land for far too long.

[JohnnyMack]

I think it will just be a slow slide back to an age when people could not afford to live as they do now. Fewer cars, or at least fewer new cars, less eating out, fewer vacations, higher food prices.

People will be forced to do without at some point.

The argument could be made that we've been living way over our heads as a nation for a generation now. A mix of the banks offering easy credit and the inability of our people to say no to spending. Ours is a consumer driven economy in which the big banks continue to make money coming and going. They're the lenders who make money off loaning money to the entrepreneurs who want build their businesses bigger and bigger. And how do these banks make sure they get people through the doors and spend money so their initial investment doesn't go tits up? They loan easy money (6 months interest free financing!!!) at the front end and make outrageous profits on the interest on the back end. If we're doomed as a nation, it's probably more a fault of greed than any other avarice we have.

[Turd_Ferguson]

If we're doomed as a nation, it's probably more a fault of greed than any other avarice we have.

RWsx1X8PV_A

[FaninAma]

The argument could be made that we've been living way over our heads as a nation for a generation now. A mix of the banks offering easy credit and the inability of our people to say no to spending. Ours is a consumer driven economy in which the big banks continue to make money coming and going. They're the lenders who make money off loaning money to the entrepreneurs who want build their businesses bigger and bigger. And how do these banks make sure they get people
through the doors and spend money so their initial investment doesn't go tits up? They loan easy money (6 months interest free financing!!!) at the front end and make outrageous profits on the interest on the back end. If we're doomed as a nation, it's probably more a fault of greed than any other avarice we have.

Who promotes this debt bubble? Would it be possible if interest rates were at 5% or more? What would happen to the government's budget if interest rates were over 5%.

[JohnnyMack]

RWsx1X8PV_A

No thanks, I won't take your bait. My point wasn't a knock against capitalism, rather it was an observation about how banks can and do manipulate markets.

[TUSooner]

I say we eat the skinny people first.

Hear him!!

[XingTheRubicon]

Lenny Bruce is not afraid.

right? RIGHT.

[TUSooner]

Oh by the way, the OP looks like evidence to support the proposition that the GOP (with its right wing fellow travelers) has become an "apocalyptic cult."

[Turd_Ferguson]

Oh by the way, the OP looks like evidence to support the proposition that the GOP (with its right wing fellow travelers) has become an "apocalyptic cult."We're all going to die on the 10th of next month. Thanks for all your compassion, you inconsiderate bastard...

[cleller]

I think the situation more serious than anyone in a position to address it is willing to admit. Much more serious than the average citizen or voter can comprehend. This quote from a WSJ artilce/interview with Alan Greenspan sheds some light on it:

"It's an extraordinarily dangerous situation," said former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, describing the growth of the nation's debt and a lack of consensus about how to address it. "I believe we underestimate the size of current financial imbalances and how difficult it will be to resolve them. We're trying to do this without pain. There's just no credible scenario in which that happens."

[StoopTroup]

I have always had the beliefs that when the American Way of life is truly threatened, even if a bunch of you are sitting around in a bunker shaking your heads saying..."I told those bastards, but Nooooo...it had to come to this!"...Americans have always rallied around each other and found what it takes to push back and put an end to any aggressor.

I find it hard to not laugh when someone starts out with "I am have never been so scared of the future as I am now". I don't doubt his fear is real but it may need to be addressed with therapy. So...Tip....Please know...I'm not laughing. I am worried for you. I hate seeing folks who seriously feel the end is near and are so afraid they begin to grasp at straws and look for things that won't make any difference if their worst fears do culminate into a reality they can't deal with.

I turn my thoughts to God and prayer and take things a day at a time. It's how I have dealt with this forum. I've been watching and waiting for this day to come and now it's here. There weren't major riots. That was a good thing right? See...that's how you do it. Take it day by day. Find something positive to latch onto. Stay the hell out of this forum if you have lost faith in America. Remember things happen for a reason. Had Mitt gotten elected...maybe that scenario would have produced your worst fears and you would have just gone on thinking that everything was going to be alright and BOOM! On your way Home a Muslim who voted for President Obama decided it was his worst nightmare and decided to take you and a few others out.

It could always be worse Bro. :wink:

[FaninAma]

Oh by the way, the OP looks like evidence to support the proposition that the GOP (with its right wing fellow travelers) has become an "apocalyptic cult."

So, doesn't that make you as guilty of over-generalization as us ill-informed bumpkins on the right?

[TitoMorelli]

I have always had the beliefs that when the American Way of life is truly threatened, even if a bunch of you are sitting around in a bunker shaking your heads saying..."I told those bastards, but Nooooo...it had to come to this!"...Americans have always rallied around each other and found what it takes to push back and put an end to any aggressor.

And still you voted for the guy who doesn't believe in American exceptionalism? :ambivalence:

[FaninAma]

It could always be worse Bro. :wink:

I have no doubt it will be.

[StoopTroup]

I think the situation more serious than anyone in a position to address it is willing to admit. Much more serious than the average citizen or voter can comprehend. This quote from a WSJ artilce/interview with Alan Greenspan sheds some light on it:

"It's an extraordinarily dangerous situation," said former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, describing the growth of the nation's debt and a lack of consensus about how to address it. "I believe we underestimate the size of current financial imbalances and how difficult it will be to resolve them. We're trying to do this without pain. There's just no credible scenario in which that happens."

I believe the scenario is very real and the fiscal cliff does need to be dealt with. Americans spoke when they went to the polls. Call your elected Official and tell him you know he's in a spot and that if he votes to sign the President's Legislation this week...you won't hold him accountable at the polls. Let them off the hook for God's sake! Let the rich take this one on the chin instead of everyone having to take a huge raise in taxes. That would be a start. I know it goes against everything Fan says we should do. Give it a chance. Don't let your employer hold you hostage politically. They have the money and even though many of them are threatening to close their doors...others who know exactly what their business plans are will gladly by their business from them like Mitt would and instead of piling debt on it they will except modest profits and you and your co-workers will soon see that they where blowing smoke up your a$$ and that they were just a bunch of greedy slimy bastards that promised their Wife a bigger house than Norma who she plays tennis with twice a week with. Norma had just about spent every dime her hubby had after he caught him banging Schwarzenegger's maid and his Wife was getting caught up in the trying to out do the Jones at all of his employees expense.

There will be pain on all sides. I don't think we can keep that from happening but it might be a bit better to ask a few Billionaires and Millionaires to pay a bit more tax so if we do need to later raise taxes for all of us....that raise will also be one that we all took.

Remember. If you put things on a credit card...you have to pay them off. Bush put two Wars on a credit card and our current POTUS avoided a Depression. Give him a little trust. If you don't...we are all going to take it on the chin at the first of the year. There's no way out of it. We need to quit this whole blaming who's fault it is and begin to do what's needed to fix this. Like I said...call your Rep and your Senator and tell them you will let them off the hook at the polls as you know that they are in a spot because the GOP lost. It's time to pay the Piper instead of whining.

[TUSooner]

Tip - I think you are more likely to die of a panic-induced stroke before your apocalypse hits.

Seriously - Read up on all the loonies of history who predicted the apocalypse and such. Glen Beck is in the next chapter. Some useless bags of turds (e.g. Beck) get their jollies from scaring people.

"I don't know what the future holds, but I know Who holds the future."

[StoopTroup]

And still you voted for the guy who doesn't believe in American exceptionalism? :ambivalence:

Maybe. I might have lied and voted for Romney. My vote here in Oklahoma wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Many of you are looking for someone to blame. I'd start with Karl Rove and then work on Dick Army...then maybe Reince Priebus. I know it's not Micheal Steele. You can blame a bunch of those folks that really bashed Romney in all those GOP Debates.

[rock on sooner]

Fully cognizant of which side each of the posters is on, my viewpoint
is that the politicians, as much as we ALL doubt them, will find a way
to do several things, not the least of which is extend the farm bill (if not
farm prices revert to the 40's), extend most of Bush's tax cuts ( a compromise
that at above $250k expires), kick the can down the road on military
cuts, find parts of Bowles-Simpson that all can agree on and proceed
from there. The issue about tax cuts and closing loopholes will be the
fiercest and most public. Boehner's leadership will be sorely tested and
Obama WILL use the veto. There will be more compromise between now
and early January than there has been in the last two years.

I stand by my assertion that if there is only gridlock then a lot of those
identified as obstructionists in the House will get flushed in 2014. I can
say with certainty that will happen in IA and it doesn't matter which party.

[FaninAma]

Putting a bandaid on the arterial bleeding taking place with our debt won't make things better.

Here's the dirty truth. Everybody is hysterical over the "fiscal cliff". Truth be told it is really a very moderate plan for getting the deficit under control. The reaction it is getting from the press and politicians indicates this country will never have the stomach to really address the debt until we get to be in the same shape Europe is in. Watch what happens over the next 2 years in California and Illinois. That should give us a pretty clwar indication where we will all be in 4 to 6 years....sooner if Europe falls hard next year.

[bluedogok]

The thing is most millionaires, billionaires and corporations don't pay taxes, their customers do. The majority of those customers are us, the general population, if taxes are raised on them, the prices we pay go up, so in the end, we pay them...and get it in the end.

[TitoMorelli]

Maybe. I might have lied and voted for Romney. My vote here in Oklahoma wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Many of you are looking for someone to blame. I'd start with Karl Rove and then work on Dick Army...then maybe Reince Priebus. I know it's not Micheal Steele. You can blame a bunch of those folks that really bashed Romney in all those GOP Debates.

Just seems odd given the amount of time you spend kissing the royal Obottom on here.

[FaninAma]

I believe the scenario is very real and the fiscal cliff does need to be dealt with. Americans spoke when they went to the polls. Call your elected Official and tell him you know he's in a spot and that if he votes to sign the President's Legislation this week...you won't hold him accountable at the polls. Let them off the hook for God's sake! Let the rich take this one on the chin instead of everyone having to take a huge raise in taxes. That would be a start. I know it goes against everything

Fan says we should do. Give it a chance. Don't let your
employer hold you hostage politically. They have the money and even though many of them are threatening to close their doors...others who know exactly what their business plans are will gladly by their business from them like Mitt would and instead of piling debt on it they will except modest profits and you and your co-workers will soon see that they where blowing smoke up your a$$ and
that they were just a bunch of greedy slimy bastards that promised their Wife a bigger house than Norma who she plays tennis with twice a week with. Norma had just about spent every dime her hubby had after he caught him banging Schwarzenegger's maid and his Wife was
getting caught up in the trying to out do the Jones at all of his employees expense.

There will be pain on all sides. I don't think we can keep
that from happening but it might be a bit better to ask a few Billionaires and Millionaires to pay a bit more tax so if we do need to later raise taxes for all of us....that raise will also be one that we all took.

Remember. If you put things on a credit card...you have
to pay them off. Bush put two Wars on a credit card
and our current POTUS avoided a Depression. Give him a little trust. If you don't...we are all going to take it on the chin at the first of the year.

There's no way out of it. We need to quit this whole
blaming who's fault it is and begin to do what's needed to fix this. Like I said...call your Rep and your Senator and tell them you will let them off the hook at the polls
as you know that they are in a spot because the GOP lost. It's time to pay the Piper instead

Are you really telling people to call the "bluffs" by their employers to cut back?

And is it your claim that the budget deficit is only the result of the wars in the Middle East.....wars that the vast majority of Democrats agreed with?

[hawaii 5-0]

Boehner's leadership will be sorely tested



LOL !!

Boehner isn't a leader by any stretch of the imagination.

He'd like to be a leader but.....

He does what the Tea Party Caucus tells him.

All he thinks about is when he can sneak out for his next smoke.


5-0

[Turd_Ferguson]

LOL !!

Obama isn't a leader by any stretch of the imagination.

He'd like to be a leader but.....

He does what the UN tells him.

All he thinks about is when he can sneak out for his next smoke.


5-0fixed

[FaninAma]

LOL !!

Boehner isn't a leader by any stretch of the imagination.

He'd like to be a leader but.....

He does what the Tea Party Caucus tells him.

All he thinks about is when he can sneak out for his next smoke.


5-0

No need for Boehner to lead. The Democrats got elected to do this....or so they tell us. Lets see what they've got.

[diverdog]

No need for Boehner to lead. The Democrats got elected to do this....or so they tell us. Lets see what they've got.

Boehner is the SOH and he needs to lead and that means compromising on taxes.

[hawaii 5-0]

fixed


I'm just floored by your originality.

5-0

[hawaii 5-0]

Boehner is the SOH and he needs to lead and that means compromising on taxes.


There's a big difference between 'needs to lead' and 'leads'.

So far I haven't seen him do anything but be led by the nose.

5-0

[rock on sooner]

There's a big difference between 'needs to lead' and 'leads'.

So far I haven't seen him do anything but be led by the nose.

5-0

Cries a lot, too. He IS the Speaker and he DOES answer to the TPers and
Norquist. I can't remember a more ineffective Speaker in my lifetime. The way I
ache and creak that is a loooonnnngggg time.

[bluedogok]

Boehner probably leads the house in purchases of fake tan products.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'm just floored by your originality.

5-0...and I you, judging by the large stick up your ***.

[TUSooner]

So, doesn't that make you as guilty of over-generalization as us ill-informed bumpkins on the right?

Just making a fair comment on the evidence presented.

[FaninAma]

Just making a fair comment on the evidence presented.

I see.

[Sooner5030]

to the OP:

It's not that bad......we're looking at a Russia 97/Argentina ~01 situation. Lots of folks will lose their life savings, on the macro level everyone will have to lower their standard of living.

My advice would be to have friends, become as self-sufficient as possible and keep your savings diversified; equity securities, cash, land, home, & PMs.

The prepper thing is only good for about 6 months....and then what?

Read Survival+ by Charles Hugh Smith. DO NOT live in any urban areas.....suburbs and rural areas are best for the next 20 years as far as avoiding looting.

Also, if you have mobility pick an area to live that is food, fuel, and water self-sufficient.

[Turd_Ferguson]

to the OP:

It's not that bad......we're looking at a Russia 97/Argentina ~01 situation. Lots of folks will lose their life savings, on the macro level everyone will have to lower their standard of living.

My advice would be to have friends, become as self-sufficient as possible and keep your savings diversified; equity securities, cash, land, home, & PMs.

The prepper thing is only good for about 6 months....and then what?

Read Survival+ by Charles Hugh Smith. DO NOT live in any urban areas.....suburbs and rural areas are best for the next 20 years as far as avoiding looting.

Also, if you have mobility pick an area to live that is food, fuel, and water self-sufficient.


I'm not concerned. Obama is going to send me money.

[hawaii 5-0]

...and I you, judging by the large stick up your ***.



And even that's not original.

You've used that lame one time and again.

A little anally fixated are ya?

I'm guessing you weren't toilet trained till you were about 6 or so, right?

Maybe you're still not.

5-0

[TUSooner]

And even that's not original.

You've used that lame one time and again.

A little anally fixated are ya?

I'm guessing you weren't toilet trained till you were about 6 or so, right?

Maybe you're still not.

5-0

Well, his name IS "Turd". Maybe has some unresolved some potty-training issues.

[TUSooner]

One thing I've learned in 50+ years, there's no problem that can't be made worse by panic. Maybe Beck and that sort of fear mongers will feel powerful and relevant and vindicated if they start some kind of stampede; who knows? Don't be part of the herd.

My outlook always improves considerably when I consider this:

Who of you by worrying can add an inch to your life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest? Consider the lilies of the field. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you – you of little faith! And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well. Not that I always apply it, but it's worth shooting for.

[Mississippi Sooner]

I just let my thoughts turn to disco:

"At first I was afraid, I was petrified..."

[Soonerjeepman]

People in this country need to chill the **** out. Jesus Christ this stuff has got to stop. WE ARE NOT GREECE! Anyone who thinks we are does not know what the hell they are talking about.

1. We have a tremendous capacity to raise taxes. Unlike Greece our effective tax rate is low. Half the people in this nation pay no taxes. We can raise taxes.

2, We have vast natural resources. Greece does not.

3. The bulk of our debt is held internally unlike Greece where it is held externally.

4. We have a massive military that can be cut. Simply bringing home most of our bases and forcing other nations to step up will reduce our deficit a lot.

5. We have a powerhouse economy and we can support our debt payments. Some corporations support debts that are many times their earnings. So do households. US economy gargantuan. Greece tiny.

6. We have the ability to cut spending in other areas.

7. Our debt can be solved with some political will and compromise on both sides.

8. The dollar is the worlds reserve currency. What will replace it? The yen?

9. We are a safe haven for investing because we have a stable government. If you have been to Greece you know how messed up it is.

10. People want to come here and live.


Finally we are Americans not Greeks. We work like dogs in this country, we are honest, and despite what you think we are among the most efficient and best educated in the world. The Greeks ......

ummm yeah how ya going to get taxes out of those on the free ride...plus didn't your guy promise NO taxes for those below 250K?

didn't your guy say NO to drilling for oil, coal etc? libs are super naturalist..

BOTH SIDES...lol the dems are just as bad in NOT compromising, but I'm sure it's the pub's fault this time around.

yes, it's the world currency now but there are rumbling that it's weak enough to give in.

I've got my guns, ammo and land to go to, so I"m good.

[Sooner5030]

-10,000 baby boomers retiring/day
-debt now greater than GDP and growing faster than GDP
-the Keynesian thought of government spending propping up demand until the recovery is still the prominent view of TPTB
-we have not had natural growth (not caused by deficit spending) in about 8 years.
-we have a majority of the population that wants to maintain or increase the current level of intervention....even though we cannot pay for current levels.

Mad Max may not end up being a documentary......but I think that repudiation, default, biflation or some combination of those three are very possible.....if not likely. It's almost a mathematical certainty based on trends. But will it be 2017, 2027, or even later? No one knows. But if plan on living another 50 years you should probably take some steps to protect yourself, your family and your money.

Also, don't forget about PEAK population. Water disputes will continue to flood the dockets as it becomes more scarce with respect to the total population and the places we have built up.

[kevpks]

But if plan on living another 50 years you should probably take some steps to protect yourself, your family and your money.


That's probably good advice in any economy. Most people are a few bad breaks away from poverty.

[FaninAma]

Boehner is the SOH and he needs to lead and that means compromising on taxes.

No he doesn't. The Democrats control 2/3 of the budgetary process. They should unveil their plan with specific proposals. The last thing Boehmer should do is get into a back and forth negotiation in public. The only thing that will do is allow the Democrats to demonize the GOP's proposals with the help of their lapdogs in the media. The GOP needs to sit back, shut their mouths and let the Democrats do all of the talking.

[BigTip]

I think the situation more serious than anyone in a position to address it is willing to admit. Much more serious than the average citizen or voter can comprehend. This quote from a WSJ artilce/interview with Alan Greenspan sheds some light on it:

"It's an extraordinarily dangerous situation," said former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, describing the growth of the nation's debt and a lack of consensus about how to address it. "I believe we underestimate the size of current financial imbalances and how difficult it will be to resolve them. We're trying to do this without pain. There's just no credible scenario in which that happens."

Yeah, sure, what does THAT guy know anyway? (huge eye roll)

He's not the only one that is saying this. Even those that were pro Romney seemed to agree that there was no stopping the economic reboot that is coming. I have never been a conspiracy guy, but anyone that won't listen to these "loony nobodies", like Alan Greenspan for example (snort, chortle!), have their heads in the sand.

[SoonerorLater]

It's not if something will happen in the future it's happening right now. We are economic toast as a country. It's a 100% mathematical certainty we will have to default on our debts either through repudiation or a soft default through monetization. Either way our days as an economic power are drawing to a close. This would have happened no matter who was elected president. It's how the leadership in power deals with it that is important.

[diverdog]

ummm yeah how ya going to get taxes out of those on the free ride...plus didn't your guy promise NO taxes for those below 250K?

didn't your guy say NO to drilling for oil, coal etc? libs are super naturalist..

BOTH SIDES...lol the dems are just as bad in NOT compromising, but I'm sure it's the pub's fault this time around.

yes, it's the world currency now but there are rumbling that it's weak enough to give in.

I've got my guns, ammo and land to go to, so I"m good.

Let me know how that works out for ya. 99.99999% of Americans do not have the skill sets to live off the land.

[TitoMorelli]

Let me know how that works out for ya. 99.99999% of Americans do not have the skill sets to live off the land.

I'd be willing to join your scout troop in order to get some skills. But only if you let somebody else be the navigator on those hikes.

[diverdog]

No he doesn't. The Democrats controll 2/3 of the budhetary process. They should unveil their plan with specific proposals. The last think Boehmer should do is get into a back and forth negotiation in public. The only thing that will do is allow the Democrats to demonize the GOP's proposals in their lapdog media. The GOP needs to sit back, shut their mouths and let the Democrats do all of the talking.

I do not disagree with most of you statements. The problem is the Dems did not sign that stupid no tax pledge and there are a lot of people on both sides that see that as a huge obstacle.

[diverdog]

I'd be willing to join your scout troop in order to get some skills. But only if you let somebody else be the navigator on those hikes.

That is not where I learned them. Not to say some skills aren't taught in scouts but the ones you really need come from practice and schools like NOLs, Dave Canterbury's Pathfinder schools or the military to name a few. The folks who do great prep work are the Mormons.

Guns are good but alone they will not keep you alive in an urban environment if you need food. Rather than buy another gun how about containers of rice, dried beans, meat, fat, sugar and other bulk products that store well? MRE's? How about putting together a good bug out plan, learn basic security and have a preplanned safe point and a good bug out bag/kit?

Since I like you Tito, I will give you a tip. Go to the local Dunkin Donuts and ask them to give you the buckets that the jelly comes in. You may have to clean it but they are excellent sealable containers to store food for the long term. Plus they are free. I like free chit being a lib and all. LOL

I do not consider myself to be in that .0001%. I am weak in a lot of skill sets....carpentry, advance first aid (that should be fixed when I take my NOLs couse), food preservation, trapping, edible plants and butchering. The thing is I have been to a number of survival courses and I know it is damn tough to live of the land. Everytime I came home I was thinner than when I left.

I am not a survivalist but I like to practice skills. This past month I made Hudson Bay Bread, damper ( an Aussie biscuit) and hard tack. Next weekend I am going to try and make Farmers Cheese.

PS I am pretty good with a compass.

[FaninAma]

-10,000 baby boomers retiring/day
-debt now greater than GDP and growing faster than GDP
-the Keynesian thought of government spending propping up demand until the recovery is still the prominent view of TPTB
-we have not had natural growth (not caused by deficit spending) in about 8 years.
-we have a majority of the population that wants to maintain or increase the current

level of intervention....even though we cannot pay for current levels.

Mad Max may not end up being a documentary......but I think that repudiation, default, biflation or some combination of those three are very possible.....if not likely. It's almost a mathematical certainty based on trends. But will it be 2017, 2027, or even later? No one knows. But if plan on living another 50 years you should probably take

some steps to protect yourself, your family and your money.

Also, don't forget about PEAK population. Water disputes will continue to flood the dockets as it becomes more scarce with respect to the total population and the places we have built up.

I think you need to read my thread about the FED owning assets that will equal 30% of our GDP by 2015. I actually think that is conservative and it doesn't even take into account the assets in the United States that other central banks around the world own.

[Sooner5030]

I think you need to read my thread about the FED owning assets that will equal 30% of our GDP by 2015. I actually think that is conservative and it doesn't even take into account the assets in the United States that other central banks around the world own.

I read it.....and I also read the balance sheet every now and then. http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

I did not read the zerohedge link yet but I will later this evening.

[soonercruiser]

Boehner probably leads the house in purchases of fake tan products.

And Peeloski led Congress in the number of face lifts!
So what?
In her case you keep pulling the skin up to the point that her peripheral nervous system and butt where above her brain.
That mades her think like........you fill in the blanks!
:moon:

[soonercruiser]

I'm not concerned. Obama is going to send me money.

Apparently I missed a great opportunity.
I do need a new phone!
:02.47-tranquillity:

[soonercruiser]

ummm yeah how ya going to get taxes out of those on the free ride...plus didn't your guy promise NO taxes for those below 250K?

didn't your guy say NO to drilling for oil, coal etc? libs are super naturalist..

BOTH SIDES...lol the dems are just as bad in NOT compromising, but I'm sure it's the pub's fault this time around.

yes, it's the world currency now but there are rumbling that it's weak enough to give in.

I've got my guns, ammo and land to go to, so I"m good.

Yah! What's the worry?
Just go back to your meth or bong, pick up the Obama phone and give Elvis a call.
:torn:

[soonercruiser]

LOL !!

Boehner isn't a leader by any stretch of the imagination.

He'd like to be a leader but.....

He does what the Tea Party Caucus tells him.

All he thinks about is when he can sneak out for his next smoke.


5-0

I'm really sorry mods.
But, this totally insane, moronic and uninformed post needs some correction.

Boehner's capacity to compromise conservative principles, and even go so far as to take Obama at his word (Obama lied to a Cardinal and Boehner) that he is a great disappointment to Tea Party Conservatives!

To say otherwise is to be extremely uniformed, a lier, or simply insane.
Please seek treatment!
:grumpy:

[Chuck Bao]

I think my family is in better position to survive a catastrophic global economic collapse than most, at least temporarily. My family has land, no debt and some savings and quite a number of guns and ammo. We have beef cattle and already grow large summer and fall gardens, which could be expanded on our blackland farm. Hunting could supplement our diet but probably not feed everyone in the extended family. My family has already discussed getting a milk cow and raising chickens. Our biggest concern would be water, as our water wells would be useless without electricity. There is a natural spring on our land a quarter mile from my mom's house, though, which didn't run dry even during the recent drought. I don't think any of us can drink directly out of a creek or the spring like my grandfather could. We'd have to chop down some of our wooded groves and boil the water. But, I don't know if I could chop down a tree with an axe to save my life, either that or I'd die trying.

Obviously, my family has already talked about the worst case scenarios. The morning after President Obama was re-elected, my mom, the Bible scholar on the "end of times" for some reason started quoting Daniel Chapter 5 - "4): As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone. 5) Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote."

Yeah, I kept my mouth shut after that. Let's hope there is no writing on the wall or me trying to chop down a tree.

[okie52]

I think my family is in better position to survive a catastrophic global economic collapse than most, at least temporarily. My family has land, no debt and some savings and quite a number of guns and ammo. We have beef cattle and already grow large summer and fall gardens, which could be expanded on our blackland farm. Hunting could supplement our diet but probably not feed everyone in the extended family. My family has already discussed getting a milk cow and raising chickens. Our biggest concern would be water, as our water wells would be useless without electricity. There is a natural spring on our land a quarter mile from my mom's house, though, which didn't run dry even during the recent drought. I don't think any of us can drink directly out of a creek or the spring like my grandfather could. We'd have to chop down some of our wooded groves and boil the water. But, I don't know if I could chop down a tree with an axe to save my life, either that or I'd die trying.

Obviously, my family has already talked about the worst case scenarios. The morning after President Obama was re-elected, my mom, the Bible scholar on the "end of times" for some reason started quoting Daniel Chapter 5 - "4): As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone. 5) Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote."

Yeah, I kept my mouth shut after that. Let's hope there is no writing on the wall or me trying to chop down a tree.

Windmills and water pumps, Chuck. Hell, you could still have indoor plumbing.

[diverdog]

I think my family is in better position to survive a catastrophic global economic collapse than most, at least temporarily. My family has land, no debt and some savings and quite a number of guns and ammo. We have beef cattle and already grow large summer and fall gardens, which could be expanded on our blackland farm. Hunting could supplement our diet but probably not feed everyone in the extended family. My family has already discussed getting a milk cow and raising chickens. Our biggest concern would be water, as our water wells would be useless without electricity. There is a natural spring on our land a quarter mile from my mom's house, though, which didn't run dry even during the recent drought. I don't think any of us can drink directly out of a creek or the spring like my grandfather could. We'd have to chop down some of our wooded groves and boil the water. But, I don't know if I could chop down a tree with an axe to save my life, either that or I'd die trying.

Obviously, my family has already talked about the worst case scenarios. The morning after President Obama was re-elected, my mom, the Bible scholar on the "end of times" for some reason started quoting Daniel Chapter 5 - "4): As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone. 5) Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote."

Yeah, I kept my mouth shut after that. Let's hope there is no writing on the wall or me trying to chop down a tree.


Chuck,

Invest in a Gransfor Bruks ax. I do not know if it is the best ax in the world but it is darn close. I have one of their hand axes (like a hatchet) and it tears through wood.

There is another ax company called Tuatahi out of NZ but I have no idea where you buy them. They are widely used in competitions.

I learned about the axes from going to lumberjack shows.

[sappstuf]

Chuck,

Invest in a Gransfor Bruks ax. I do not know if it is the best ax in the world but it is darn close. I have one of their hand axes (like a hatchet) and it tears through wood.

There is another ax company called Tuatahi out of NZ but I have no idea where you buy them. They are widely used in competitions.

I learned about the axes from going to lumberjack shows.

You're a lumber jack and thats ok....

[BigTip]

You're a lumber jack and thats ok....

lol!

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRH_bdqbZGpS-2FiWi5lYXE6AIe5RBcO_KV4gHzKixR6b-pklMnoEkYNTXi

[diverdog]

You're a lumber jack and thats ok....

LOL. I have not heard that in a while.

I use to take my boys to this show outside of Bar Harbor Maine. The lady (Timber Tina) who runs it was on Survivor and I think she was a world champion in a couple of lumberjack competitions. We had a lot of fun because gave each side of the audience a lumberjack team to cheer. The problem was the entire thing was rigged. One night the red team would win and the next night the blue team. During the day she actually ran a training for competitive lumberjacks and I stopped by and talked to her about saws and axes. What I found out is there are saws and axes and then there are SAWS and AXES. LOL

http://www.mainelumberjack.com/Maine_Lumberjacks/Home.html


BTW I think Timber Tina could fight SEAL Team 6 to a draw.

IMG_0432-600x450.jpg (http://bdnpull.bangorpublishing.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_0432-600x450.jpg)

[kevpks]

This thread interests me and I thinks it's smart to be prepared. I am curious what people see in Romney's record to indicate he would have prevented all of these catastrophic scenarios that people foresee.

[BigTip]

This thread interests me and I thinks it's smart to be prepared. I am curious what people see in Romney's record to indicate he would have prevented all of these catastrophic scenarios that people foresee.

He would have hopefully slowed our slide into socialism. He would have tried to slow the government give away that will surely bankrupt us. Just his election would have encouraged small businessmen like myself to invest in their businesses. Now I am very reluctant to do so. Why? Why gamble and work harder just to have the wealth I might acquire be redistributed to someone more "deserving" than myself? This non-investment means less economic activity. It's the end when there is no economic activity.

[BigTip]

Has any other Republicans considered registering as a Democrat now? I thought I might do it so that The Party sees that I have seen the light. Then I could say I have been loyal to The Party since 2012. In history this move has proved beneficial to people.

[TUSooner]

He would have hopefully slowed our slide into socialism. He would have tried to slow the government give away that will surely bankrupt us. Just his election would have encouraged small businessmen like myself to invest in their businesses. Now I am very reluctant to do so. Why? Why gamble and work harder just to have the wealth I might acquire be redistributed to someone more "deserving" than myself? This non-investment means less economic activity. It's the end when there is no economic activity.

So you're giving up because you're scared of Obama and the Dems? How patriotic. You prove that panic can make anything worse. This is the American Spirit -- listening to pudgy maudlin doomsayers on the radio and crying in the dark? All because your guy lost an election and the radio gods have told you the winner is really V.I. Lenin? If all capitalists are as easily spooked as you are, we are indeed in the deep ****. Gladly they are not. Gosh, you make the most rapacious Wall Street investment banker sound positively heroic: At least those folks are still working to make a buck and to keep the economic engine running. Seriously, America needs YOU to stop being Chicken Little and to "gird you loins" instead of hiding a cave with your AK 47, a handful Krugerands, and a crate of Spaghettios. Sensible planing for hard times is never bad idea, but the rest of this thread is just plain silly.

[BigTip]

Sensible planing for hard times is never bad idea.

Thank you.

[BoulderSooner79]

He would have hopefully slowed our slide into socialism. He would have tried to slow the government give away that will surely bankrupt us. Just his election would have encouraged small businessmen like myself to invest in their businesses. Now I am very reluctant to do so. Why? Why gamble and work harder just to have the wealth I might acquire be redistributed to someone more "deserving" than myself? This non-investment means less economic activity. It's the end when there is no economic activity.

This response amazes me. There is indeed reason to be concerned about the economic future, but the differences in the political parties is dwarfed by the situation. The republicans spend like drunken sailors on leave and have been doing so since the Reagan years. What I don't understand is why registered republican voters keep believing them when they say they will cut spending. The only thing worse than what the republicans accuse the dems of doing (tax and spend) is what they do themselves (SPEND but don't tax). By cutting off such a large part of the revenue side, they have run up this huge debt monster that has everyone so afraid - and for good reason. The worst thing Obama has done is just continue that trend started by GW and friends. And it would have continued under McCain as well because we have painted ourselves into such a corner that raising taxes or cutting spending might throw us into a deep recession again (or worse). So everyone is frozen with inaction while the debt continues to pile up.

But the day of reckoning will come because economics is much like physics. The scales will balance themselves one way or another. The only question is will there be winners and losers and what to do about it. The only sensible solution is to cut wasteful spending and to raise taxes gradually while trying to do other things to get the economy healthier. That is what is being discussed now, so there is some hope, but we'll see if congress can really follow though. But it doesn't change the fact the economy is weak around the world, so it could have negative impact and resort to more stimulus (spending and debt). You are set up as well as anyone the best thing you can do is to continue investing in your business. If things follow the worst case scenario, it won't matter anyway. But if things turn around you'll be ahead of the game.

[BigTip]

I didn't say that Romney would have prevented the looming disaster, I said he would slow it. The disaster is unavoidable at this point. As Greenspan is quoted pointing out in another thread here. And yes the Republicans have not stopped the spending. They want to get reelected too ya know! But at least Romney was SAYING that he would slow the spending. That's all we had to grasp on to.

But the worst thing about the election is that it marked a turning point in the country. It perfectly illustrates Ben Franklin's quote, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

It is correct in saying panic begets panic. A strong president can alter a mindset of a country. Reagan going on TV saying, "Hey, it's going to be okay. Go spend some money" really does work. But facing a certain reality is not panic.

If you could get into a time machine and go back to January 1929, what would you advise your relatives to do to plan for the upcoming October crash? That's the sort of discussion I am seeking here.

[Soonerjeepman]

Guns are good but alone they will not keep you alive in an urban environment


#1 GET OUT OF THE CITY!!!

good tip on the DD, thanks DDog...know I haven't agreed with ya on the political front but good info, store used oil from the cars!!

[Soonerjeepman]

Yah! What's the worry?
Just go back to your meth or bong, pick up the Obama phone and give Elvis a call.
:torn:
cruise, you bustin my b@lls? Thinkin I'm one your side...

[KantoSooner]

How do you survive?
Indeed, that's a good question.
I intend to continue to reduce my personal debt (already fairly low - going through a divorce and wanting to come out without ongoing obligations will do wonders for ridding you of things like homes, cars, boats and other ongoing expenses). Along with that overarching plan, I'll garden a bit, make my wine, buy groceries and eat them, drink a bit too much and sleep in on Sundays. Yep, that seems like a plan to me.
Because, you see, there is no chance in hell of this country, or indeed, most of the civilized countries on earth going Mad Max. None.
And I lived as a kid in Nigeria during the Biafran Civil War. How on Earth did we 'survive' there? Well, we tried to keep expenditures under control so that we'd have some money. We bought and ate groceries, did a little gardening, bought wine when it was available, my folks and their friends probably drank a bit much and everyone slept in on Sundays. And that, let me reiterate, was in a freaking war zone.
The sky is not falling.

[kevpks]

#1 GET OUT OF THE CITY!!!



I don't know. As a college professor, I don't think I need to run for the hills. I think our overlords will find me useful for indoctrinating the youth. That's what Glenn Beck tells me that I do anyway.

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't know. As a college professor, I don't think I need to run for the hills. I think our overlords will find me useful for indoctrinating the youth. That's what Glenn Beck tells me that I do anyway.

There are few things that I find more annoying about the right than their bizarre hatred and fear of academia. Having spent the better part of a decade in college, I don't see what there is to fear. Nearly all of my professors were great people whether I agreed with them or not. I consider several of them to be friends.

What do you teach?

[Mississippi Sooner]

How do you survive?
Indeed, that's a good question.
I intend to continue to reduce my personal debt (already fairly low - going through a divorce and wanting to come out without ongoing obligations will do wonders for ridding you of things like homes, cars, boats and other ongoing expenses). Along with that overarching plan, I'll garden a bit, make my wine, buy groceries and eat them, drink a bit too much and sleep in on Sundays. Yep, that seems like a plan to me.
Because, you see, there is no chance in hell of this country, or indeed, most of the civilized countries on earth going Mad Max. None.
And I lived as a kid in Nigeria during the Biafran Civil War. How on Earth did we 'survive' there? Well, we tried to keep expenditures under control so that we'd have some money. We bought and ate groceries, did a little gardening, bought wine when it was available, my folks and their friends probably drank a bit much and everyone slept in on Sundays. And that, let me reiterate, was in a freaking war zone.
The sky is not falling.

Oh yeah? Well, I survived just fine in the middle of the '80s Drug War. How did we 'survive' there? Well, we tried to keep expenditures under control so that we'd have some beer money. We bought and ate munchies, did a little indoor gardening, bought acid when it was available and everyone most assuredly slept in on Sundays. Not to mention most every other day of the week. We sometimes thought the sky was falling, but then we'd remember it was just the shrooms.

[BigTip]

That's good that you survived a war. That is an encouraging story. But there are stories through history where things did not turn out so well for everyone.
1918 Russia
1933 Germany
1949 China
1958 Cuba

I am very sure that in all those situations there were people on the interwebs saying, "everything will be okay."

I am not being an alarmist, I am merely being a student of history. Things are stable stable stable, then.......**** hits the fan.

[BigTip]

I don't know. As a college professor, I don't think I need to run for the hills. I think our overlords will find me useful for indoctrinating the youth. That's what Glenn Beck tells me that I do anyway.
Oops, thanks for reminding me of another example of normalcy exploding into chaos.

College professor eh? Go over to Cambodia and ask how college professors got along around 1975 or so. Oh wait, I forgot. There aren't any college professors left from 1975 there.

[kevpks]

There are few things that I find more annoying about the right than their bizarre hatred and fear of academia. Having spent the better part of a decade in college, I don't see what there is to fear. Nearly all of my professors were great people whether I agreed with them or not. I consider several of them to be friends.

What do you teach?

English composition and Medieval/Renaissance literature.

[SicEmBaylor]

Oops, thanks for reminding me of another example of normalcy exploding into chaos.

College professor eh? Go over to Cambodia and ask how college professors got along around 1975 or so. Oh wait, I forgot. There aren't any college professors left from 1975 there.
No tenure system, eha? ;)

[TUSooner]

Oops, thanks for reminding me of another example of normalcy exploding into chaos.

College professor eh? Go over to Cambodia and ask how college professors got along around 1975 or so. Oh wait, I forgot. There aren't any college professors left from 1975 there.

What is your business, by the way? Since you're bailing out, I might come up there and take your customers. Or more likely send my smarter brother-in-law.

[BigTip]

But heck, this is America! Stable America. We've been stable and successful for Well over 230 years!!! That's almost forever, isn't it?

[kevpks]

Oops, thanks for reminding me of another example of normalcy exploding into chaos.

College professor eh? Go over to Cambodia and ask how college professors got along around 1975 or so. Oh wait, I forgot. There aren't any college professors left from 1975 there.

I think we're a ways off from a Khmer Rouge period, but that's just me.

[TUSooner]

Oops, thanks for reminding me of another example of normalcy exploding into chaos.

College professor eh? Go over to Cambodia and ask how college professors got along around 1975 or so. Oh wait, I forgot. There aren't any college professors left from 1975 there.
Oh ****, Obama's in the Khmer Rouge!!

[BigTip]

I think we're a ways off from a Khmer Rouge period, but that's just me.
God I hope so, but my point is, I bet the people of Cambodia thought the exact same thing in 1972 or so.

[SicEmBaylor]

I do know a guy in Colorado who is selling/shutting down his trucking business, his home, and a lot of his tangible assets now that Obama has been elected. He and his wife are going to move to the Cayman Islands where he wants to open a scuba shop (it's currently a hobby of his). I think he has already started laying people off. Said he was done with this ****.

[Soonerjeepman]

I don't know. As a college professor, I don't think I need to run for the hills. I think our overlords will find me useful for indoctrinating the youth. That's what Glenn Beck tells me that I do anyway.

ah, guess I can "teach" the younger ones...but I'll be actually with the resistance!! sweet plan.

Sicem...this is for you, I teach in an urban ele ed school. The unbelievable indoctrination of obama and his beliefs is crazy. Mind you, not so obvious, but Wed Nov 7th, the principal got on the PA and congratulated obama then started chanting "4 more years".
My question to her is #1 IF Romney had won would there have EVEN been a congratulations? #2 Obviously the kids here related to obama (black - well half) and mostly poor, so their parent (s) are obama supporters BUT does any one besides me tell them to look at ALL issues and vote for someone because you believe in their stances on issues? I'd venture to say no.

Take a look at Fox, several students and teachers are "in trouble" for speaking against obama, some on their PRIVATE facebook accounts. Don't think I've ever heard a teacher or students get in trouble because they SUPPORTED liberalism..(after the 60's!)

[SoonerorLater]

But heck, this is America! Stable America. We've been stable and successful for Well over 230 years!!! That's almost forever, isn't it?

Yes, nothing could go wrong here.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

When I was growing up my parents didn't even put me in a car seat.

And I rode a bike without a helmet.

If I can survive that, I can survive the coming apocolypse.

[SoonerorLater]

When I was growing up my parents didn't even put me in a car seat.

And I rode a bike without a helmet.

If I can survive that, I can survive the coming apocolypse.

I was thinking something like that. Does anybody know where we sign up to opt out of the apocolypse?

[Mississippi Sooner]

I do know a guy in Colorado who is selling/shutting down his trucking business, his home, and a lot of his tangible assets now that Obama has been elected. He and his wife are going to move to the Cayman Islands where he wants to open a scuba shop (it's currently a hobby of his). I think he has already started laying people off. Said he was done with this ****.

Well, if you are gonna throw in the towel, I can think of a million worse ways to go.

[SoonerLaw09]

It's far more likely that there will be another Civil War than that the US economy totally collapses. The only thing that could really bring us down is if the world stopped using the dollar as reference currency (or whatever the term is). That might happen if we keep on like we are doing, but I think we would institute our own "austerity measures" before that.

I'm more concerned that the continued expansion of the Federal government into every area of our lives, and the erosion of constitutional guarantees and states' rights, will lead to a secession movement. And perhaps it should. But it will certainly be messy. That's what I'm fixin' to prepare for.

[SoonerLaw09]

Well, if you are gonna throw in the towel, I can think of a million worse ways to go.

If it comes down to brass tacks, I'll emigrate to Switzerland. Most stable country in the world with the highest standard of living. Stays out of other people's wars. Knows the danger of encroaching Islam and has already taken steps to curtail it. Gives its Cantons (states) a ton of freedom in setting policy. Promotes religious freedom. Isn't afraid to legislate appropriately on social issues (they don't even allow homosexuals to adopt). And, it happens to be the Motherland (where my family originated).

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I was thinking something like that. Does anybody know where we sign up to opt out of the apocolypse?

I'm sure you can find it on petition.com.

[SoonerorLater]

HEADS UP - New season of Doomsday Preppers starts tonight. Everybody check it on your Mayan calender

[KantoSooner]

That's good that you survived a war. That is an encouraging story. But there are stories through history where things did not turn out so well for everyone.
1918 Russia
1933 Germany
1949 China
1958 Cuba

I am very sure that in all those situations there were people on the interwebs saying, "everything will be okay."

I am not being an alarmist, I am merely being a student of history. Things are stable stable stable, then.......**** hits the fan.

And a broken clock is right. Twice a day even. In each of the examples you cite above, it is absolutely incorrect to say that things were running along with peaches and champagne and then POOF out of a clear blue sky, chaos! Each of them had been recently ravaged by a war (except in the case of Cuba which had emerged from being a colony to being an island run by foreign criminal gangs). They would have been seen to be on the verge of collapse by any contemporary observer. Remember those pictures of Germans with wheel barrow loads of cash going to buy a couple loaves of bread? That was not a clear blue sky.

And we're in analogous shape here in good ole 'Murca, at the beginning of the second decade of this century? I guess I don't see it. Unemployment? Call it 8%. China immediately pre-revolution? Somewhere North of 90% with starvation stalking the land and killing thousands daily. At worst, people here are losing title to their suburban houses and having to make do with only three or four flat screens in their dwellings. We are being inconvenienced. Our style is being cramped. We are not facing an existential crisis.

And BamBam, even given free rein and Godlike power to do whatever his little egghead heart wanted would not put us into one. At worst we'd end up sort of kind of like Holland. Or Italy. Certainly not where I want to be (no, wait, I'd LOVE to be in Italy right now. Let's say on the beach, South of Reggio, drinking wiine and casting the long eye at the lovelies doing the topless sun bathing routine. But I digress), but not Mad Max land, either.

In the alternative, if you do decide to go live in a cave in Idaho, please contact me regarding disposal of your worldly possessions. I've got room in my garage, for instance, for a jet ski and you won't be needing that 'come the revolution'. I'll park it right next to the stuff I got from the Rapturers and the Y2K folks.

[LiveLaughLove]

If it comes down to brass tacks, I'll emigrate to Switzerland. Most stable country in the world with the highest standard of living. Stays out of other people's wars. Knows the danger of encroaching Islam and has already taken steps to curtail it. Gives its Cantons (states) a ton of freedom in setting policy. Promotes religious freedom. Isn't afraid to legislate appropriately on social issues (they don't even allow homosexuals to adopt). And, it happens to be the Motherland (where my family originated).

That sounds good. Beautiful place for sure.

I would look at The Philippines myself on the other end of the world. Close to the Asian markets. When my wife and I become empty nester's we are seriously looking there.

[BigTip]

And we're in analogous shape here in good ole 'Murca, at the beginning of the second decade of this century? I guess I don't see it. .

How much turmoil was the good ol' USA in during the 1920's? The Roaring 20's. Right, none.

Things changed quickly and dramatically.

[BoulderSooner79]

I do know a guy in Colorado who is selling/shutting down his trucking business, his home, and a lot of his tangible assets now that Obama has been elected. He and his wife are going to move to the Cayman Islands where he wants to open a scuba shop (it's currently a hobby of his). I think he has already started laying people off. Said he was done with this ****.

Then he should be thanking voters for helping him put a date on a decision he had already made. Obviously, he was in a position to do this regardless of the election outcome and could have retired as part of a celebration had Romney won.

[KantoSooner]

How much turmoil was the good ol' USA in during the 1920's? The Roaring 20's. Right, none.

Things changed quickly and dramatically.

Thanks for making my point. The Great Depression (waaaaaaaaaaaay more of a systemic stressor than our piddly little recession) did not result in the collapse of society and a Planet of the Apes scenario. If that didn't do it, why should we expect social collapse now? Hell, we had a goddamn civil war and came through as a nation. Obama's reelection is somehow worse than five years of all out civil war?

[LiveLaughLove]

Thanks for making my point. The Great Depression (waaaaaaaaaaaay more of a systemic stressor than our piddly little recession) did not result in the collapse of society and a Planet of the Apes scenario. If that didn't do it, why should we expect social collapse now? Hell, we had a goddamn civil war and came through as a nation. Obama's reelection is somehow worse than five years of all out civil war?

It's not the event, it's the electorate. Won't survive that.

If the electorate somehow miraculously grows up and get's back to self reliance and self governance then it will survive. otherwise not happening.

Nation's fall. Won't be the first or the last. Usually, it's because of exactly what we are heading toward, an electorate that wants to be taken care of more than it wants freedom.

Can't have both.

[BigTip]

Then he should be thanking voters for helping him put a date on a decision he had already made. Obviously, he was in a position to do this regardless of the election outcome and could have retired as part of a celebration had Romney won.

You are not a business owner. I don't even have to ask.

Think "the straw that broke the camel's back." That is what is applying to the guy in Colorado and to me, and doubtless, thousands/millions, others. Romney got it. Or at least he said he got it. Small business drives the economy. When you take the incentive to succeed, and thrive, away then there is no more doing. Then you have the USSR where everyone was told what they were suppose to do and did the minimum because they knew they were going to have a place to live and something to eat because the State would take care of them.

[SoonerorLater]

I'm actually ready to go over the fiscal cliff. I mean Thelma and Louise ready to go over the cliff. The sooner we crash this thing the sooner we get back to economic health in this country. It's time for bad debt to be liquidated and losses taken. You can see the zombie economy that Japan has become for 20 years trying to avoid the day of reckoning. For Japan things are still getting worse. The U.S. won't fare any better trying to tax and print our way out of this abyss.

Both the Republican and Democrat proposals are too little too late. They just nibble around the edges of what needs to be done. If all bad debt is written off we would probabaly have a 5-10 yr depression but we could come out the end of the tunnel with a new future that isn't shackeled by debt.

[BoulderSooner79]

You are not a business owner. I don't even have to ask.

Think "the straw that broke the camel's back." That is what is applying to the guy in Colorado and to me, and doubtless, thousands/millions, others. Romney got it. Or at least he said he got it. Small business drives the economy. When you take the incentive to succeed, and thrive, away then there is no more doing. Then you have the USSR where everyone was told what they were suppose to do and did the minimum because they knew they were going to have a place to live and something to eat because the State would take care of them.

I completely understand what was implied by the guy making a life change - I'm not an idiot. But things change all the time and people have to adjust to them. Romney or Obama were not going to make a big difference to his business and if that was still his passion, he would have stayed.

[BetterSoonerThanLater]

There's a big difference between 'needs to lead' and 'leads'.

So far I haven't seen Obama do anything but lead from the rear.

5-0

~

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/fotos-satelitales/ojo-de-agua-de-senora

[Sooner5030]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/113621307/Kyle-Bass

I haven't read the scribb'd letter yet but I will when I get some time this weekend. Thought I'd share it as some of the other doom & gloomers might be interested in different opinions on how reset will occur or what it may look like.

[8timechamps]

Some of you need to lay off the 'world is ending' websites and such. This country has managed through horrible financial times in her past. It will happen again. There isn't going to be mass rioting, looting, etc. Even in Greece, the demonstrations have been on par with what we saw a few years back when the WTO riots occured in Seattle.

The best thing that can happen for this country in the long run is to allow the car to crash off of the 'fiscal cliff'. It would put us into a serious recession, but would force the government to deal with the actual problems, and nothing should be out of bounds...including the trusts.

Are things going to get darker before the light, sure. Is it going to be looting on every street-corner, and having to defend your family with assault guns? No. But, if it makes you feel better to prepare for a doomsday event, more power to you.


Besides, the Mayans said we'll be dead before any of that happens.

[cleller]

Some of you need to lay off the 'world is ending' websites and such. This country has managed through horrible financial times in her past. It will happen again. There isn't going to be mass rioting, looting, etc. Even in Greece, the demonstrations have been on par with what we saw a few years back when the WTO riots occured in Seattle.

The best thing that can happen for this country in the long run is to allow the car to crash off of the 'fiscal cliff'. It would put us into a serious recession, but would force the government to deal with the actual problems, and nothing should be out of bounds...including the trusts.

Are things going to get darker before the light, sure. Is it going to be looting on every street-corner, and having to defend your family with assault guns? No. But, if it makes you feel better to prepare for a doomsday event, more power to you.


Besides, the Mayans said we'll be dead before any of that happens.

True. We're just going to end up looking more like modern France.

[rock on sooner]

You are not a business owner. I don't even have to ask.

Think "the straw that broke the camel's back." That is what is applying to the guy in Colorado and to me, and doubtless, thousands/millions, others. Romney got it. Or at least he said he got it. Small business drives the economy. When you take the incentive to succeed, and thrive, away then there is no more doing. Then you have the USSR where everyone was told what they were suppose to do and did the minimum because they knew they were going to have a place to live and something to eat because the State would take care of them.

You guys wouldn't be having all this hand wringing and teeth nashing if
your guy Romney actually got it. Imo, if he got it, he would have been
able to communicate it better and he might have been elected. Also, my
opinion, happily he did not because he would have turned around and jumped
through whatever hoops Adelson, Koch Bros, Perry (not the TX gov), Anderson
and Rove wanted him to. No matter what you say those people had only their
own self interests in mind and to hell with everyone else, which, by the way, is
where we all would have gone. Had Romney won, the Senate would have gone
Pub as well and I believe the worse thing that could happen would be to have
single party rule.

[BoulderSooner79]

I was planning to survive on Twinkies; I'm kinda lost now.

[rock on sooner]

I was planning to survive on Twinkies; I'm kinda lost now.

Be patient, Hostess is gonna sell and somebody will buy all
the proprietary rights and Twinkies, HoHo's etc will all be back.

Vet was really concerned about the Twinkie Ho...

[soonercruiser]

It's far more likely that there will be another Civil War than that the US economy totally collapses. The only thing that could really bring us down is if the world stopped using the dollar as reference currency (or whatever the term is). That might happen if we keep on like we are doing, but I think we would institute our own "austerity measures" before that.

I'm more concerned that the continued expansion of the Federal government into every area of our lives, and the erosion of constitutional guarantees and states' rights, will lead to a secession movement. And perhaps it should. But it will certainly be messy. That's what I'm fixin' to prepare for.

I read an article a few weeks back about the volume of Gold that the Chinese are buying.
And, they mine more Gold than any other country on the globe.
It was stated that their Interior Minister says that their goal is to have the Yen as the world monetary standard.
I'd say that they have a goo start!

[hawaii 5-0]

I'd say that they have a goo start!



I liked Moo Goo Gai Pan when I lived in Oklahoma, but have never seen it on a Chinese menu here. Never seen Chicken Almond Ding either.

5-0

[diverdog]

I read an article a few weeks back about the volume of Gold that the Chinese are buying.
And, they mine more Gold than any other country on the globe.
It was stated that their Interior Minister says that their goal is to have the Yen as the world monetary standard.
I'd say that they have a goo start!

Wait til their real estate sector collapses.

[FaninAma]

The Chinese currency is the yuan, not the yen.

[KantoSooner]

And I sincerely doubt anyone will accept as a reserve currency one whose exchange rate is set by that nation's central government. One of the leeeetle problems involved with having a non-floating currency.

[JohnnyMack]

I read an article a few weeks back about the volume of Gold that the Chinese are buying.
And, they mine more Gold than any other country on the globe.
It was stated that their Interior Minister says that their goal is to have the Yen as the world monetary standard.
I'd say that they have a goo start!

China's gold reserves pale in comparison to the amount of USD they have. It's not even really close.

While the Chinese economy is certainly expanding, to me there's a certain "house of cards" feeling about it all. Their real estate market, both personal and commercial is truly frightening. If (or when) it ****s its collective pants, it won't be pretty.

[KantoSooner]

China's economy could collapse at any moment. It's pretty common knowledge that none of the econ data coming out of there is accurate. The books are cooked. A 'readjustment' is coming, it's only a question of when.

If China is ramping gold purchases, it's because individual Chinese are following the old adage to keep 1/3 of your asset portfolio in gold to protect against economic catastrophy.

To think that this currency would become the global reserve is crazy.

The Euro has been proposed and operates as one to some limited degree. The Yen operates as one in a limited way in parts of Asia. Malaysia and several gulf states tried to make a gold backed note into a workable 'currency' to get away from US fiscal policy. I think there are still some of those around, maybe.

It's not really that everyone loves the dollar so much as it is that nothing else would work at the moment. We've got at least another 25 years as the world's reserve currency and that is strongly in our favor (yet one more way we rigged the world in our favor with the Bretton Woods entities post WWII. Be careful railing against the IMF, the UN, the World Bank, the BIS, etc. the US, in very fundamental ways 'owns' the whole game.)

If we can get our domestic fiscal house in order, we're well on our way to 'American Century Part Deux'.