My picks on the State questions

[MamaMia]

State Question 768.....YES

State Question 769.....YES

State Question 762.....NO

State Question 764.....NO

State Question 765.....YES

State Question 766.....YES

[olevetonahill]

Aint even read any of em yet

[MamaMia]

Aint even read any of em yet
You're not alone, and the wordage is rather tricky. Thats why I thought I'd help. :D

[olevetonahill]

You're not alone, and the wordage is rather tricky. Thats why I thought I'd help. :D

Ill be lookin em up here in a few , Then See if I agree with you, Prolly do, But we never know

[olevetonahill]

Dint take long to find em, Heres a Link, Now Ima read em
http://enidnews.com/featuredstory/x1501149186/Six-questions-to-appear-on-Tuesday-s-ballot

[olevetonahill]

Ok heres My 1st take
758 Yes
759 Yes
762 NO
764 yes
765 yes
766 NO My thinkin on this is get rid Of ALL personal property Tax, Its Not administered fairly. The Only people that Pay PPtax are Property Owners , Renters never get a bill

[MamaMia]

Ok heres My 1st take
758 Yes
759 Yes
762 NO
764 yes
765 yes
766 NO My thinkin on this is get rid Of ALL personal property Tax, Its Not administered fairly. The Only people that Pay PPtax are Property Owners , Renters never get a bill This is why I will vote YES...

This is one of those tricky ones. I wholeheartedly agree with the State Chamber on this one because its pro-business. With the exception of OK-SAFE, I know of no other grass-roots organization that is taking an anti-business stance on this issue.

Conservative grass-roots organizations are not anti-business, our beef with the State Chamber is over their preference for a form of fascist and socialist capitalism rather than support of free market capitalism. If this measure passes it will prevent property taxes from being applied to intangible items such as patents, trademarks, certifications, customer lists and on an on.

I am opposed to taxing businesses for a couple of reasons. First, businesses consider taxes as overhead, therefore they increase the costs of their goods and services to cover the tax, thus it is the people purchasing the goods or services that actually pay the tax and not the business. However, since the cost of the tax is imbedded into the price, the consumer never knows how much of the cost is tax which means we have then allowed politicians to hide the true cost of government. Second, it forces those businesses to raise their prices which then makes them less competitive in a national or global marketplace.

If we want a strong economy and good jobs, we should insist government get its revenues from the consumptive (sales taxes and fees) side of the economy rather than the productive (business and income taxes) side of the economy. Voting yes on this pro-business.

[olevetonahill]

Mom , I agree, What Im sayin is this only cures a Part of the Prob, Do away with ALL personal Property tax.
If we pass this measure then Only a tiny part of the Prob gets fixed and the rest is swept under the rug till some future date .

[Midtowner]

758 - Cap property tax increases at 3% per annum, voting against. Our public schools have been cut to the bone. This further harms their chief means of obtaining funding by cutting the maximum rate almost in half. A Constitutional Amendment doing this while also cutting the income tax probably next year or soon will be pretty devastating to state services.

759 - Repeal Affirmative Action (except in still needed areas), voting no. This is a solution in search of a problem.

762 - Remove Governor from non-violent offenders parole, voting no. Someone needs to be accountable to the electorate when these decisions are made. This is just an attempt by DOC to try and weasel out of housing violent offenders while not being accountable to anyone.

764 - $300 MM Bond from OK Water Resource Board, voting no. There aren't enough controls in place here. OWRB is accountable to no one. I don't think we should give them the state's credit card without some strings attached, i.e., do they just pick whatever contractors they want? We need some reform here, but this isn't the way to to do it.

765 - replace DHS, voting no. The new Board is implementing changes. It's hardly the time to just nuke the whole thing and start over.

766 - Repeal Court decision on Intangible properties taxation. Voting no, again, this defunds public education, which I think we all have a stake in whether we are childless or our kids attend private schools. The state of our state's economy depends on a functional common ed system. Also, I really don't see a rational reason why we should tax a pump jack any differently than a minerals lease.

[olevetonahill]

Mid Ya dont surprise me one bit

[Midtowner]

I don't even have kids, but I understand that cuts to property taxes are going to be a big problem for our public education system, which is already hurting. I would think that would be particularly well understood in rural areas. If you cut taxes in this area, the only option for a lot of smaller districts will be to consolidate. A vote for 758 and 766 is a vote for consolidation.

As to 765, I do lots of work with and around DHS. I'm currently working with several CPS caseworkers. I've dealt with everyone from intake to permanency to adoption workers and had to work closely with them and their supervisors on some of the deprived cases I'm either hired into as a paid attorney or volunteering on as a child's attorney. Changes are being implemented, but nothing this Board or anything the legislature does is going to be effective without hiring a lot more workers, paying them competitively, expecting (or providing) better academic or practical training (which is happening to some degree with intake and permanency workers being required to take 'core competency' classes) and reducing case loads. These folks earn something in the high 20s/low 30s and work 80 hour weeks to cover their case loads. They're on call basically 24/7 and burn out pretty quickly. Anything the legislature does at this point absent providing DHS more resources is just reshuffling the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. A no vote tells the legislature to stop effing around and fix things already.

762 and 764 are just undemocratic and potentially invite corruption into the process. No one is accountable to the people. We're going to place the decision as to whether to pardon or parole violent offenders, child molesters, etc., to people who don't have to answer to the voters for their actions. That is absolutely nuts. If they're frustrated because the Governor won't sign a lot of pardons or paroles, that's because she doesn't want to be called to task when these folks reoffend. Remove that consideration and crime IS going to go up. 764 practically invites corruption. There are no controls for what contractors get chosen, which projects are approved or anything. I predict a major bribery scandal if this thing passes and lots of money run up on the state's credit card. Not a great thing.

And repealing affirmative action? Are white folks really being discriminated against in the state workplace? As much as I work with the state, I can't see it.

[pphilfran]

758 - Cap property tax increases at 3% per annum, voting against. Our public schools have been cut to the bone. This further harms their chief means of obtaining funding by cutting the maximum rate almost in half. A Constitutional Amendment doing this while also cutting the income tax probably next year or soon will be pretty devastating to state services. Why should property taxes increase by even 3% if inflation is at 2%? Should be based on inflation

759 - Repeal Affirmative Action (except in still needed areas), voting no. This is a solution in search of a problem. Agree

762 - Remove Governor from non-violent offenders parole, voting no. Someone needs to be accountable to the electorate when these decisions are made. This is just an attempt by DOC to try and weasel out of housing violent offenders while not being accountable to anyone. Agree

764 - $300 MM Bond from OK Water Resource Board, voting no. There aren't enough controls in place here. OWRB is accountable to no one. I don't think we should give them the state's credit card without some strings attached, i.e., do they just pick whatever contractors they want? We need some reform here, but this isn't the way to to do it. Still not sure...it is going to be needed in future and interest rates will never be cheaper...leaning yes

765 - replace DHS, voting no. The new Board is implementing changes. It's hardly the time to just nuke the whole thing and start over. agree

766 - Repeal Court decision on Intangible properties taxation. Voting no, again, this defunds public education, which I think we all have a stake in whether we are childless or our kids attend private schools. The state of our state's economy depends on a functional common ed system. Also, I really don't see a rational reason why we should tax a pump jack any differently than a minerals lease.Yes...the intangible only has worth if the tangible it relates to has worth...so we get our money one way or another...


It is not the time to be raising taxes...we must be smart in the way we spend our money and we must make tough decisions on funding to each specific application...

[olevetonahill]

Its NOT cuttin Property taxes, Its Limiting the INCREASE to 3 % instead of 5% Phil pretty much hit right on

Why are our PSs hurting anyway? Wasnt the Lottery supposed to take care of any and all Budget needs?

[Midtowner]

It's also not the time to be cutting taxes when education spending is so far below what it was just a few years ago. It's not the big suburban districts which are really hurting here, it's the rural school districts. Rural folks really value their local schools, but consolidation is going to definitely be a major discussion here in a few years as virtual schools and tax cuts start attacking these rural schools' revenue streams.

[Midtowner]

Its NOT cuttin Property taxes, Its Limiting the INCREASE to 3 % instead of 5% Phil pretty much hit right on

Why are our PSs hurting anyway? Wasnt the Lottery supposed to take care of any and all Budget needs?

It was never advertised to fix everything. It was a bonus. In fact, it says in the Constitutional Amendment that it would be illegal for the legislature to cut funding and supplement that with lottery money, which is precisely what has happened. Your taxes don't automatically go up 5% every year, that's just the cap. If the property actually increases 5%, why should you not have to pay taxes on what your property is actually worth?

The fact is, with some of the oil and gas plays here in Oklahoma right now, certain areas are about to see home prices skyrocketing like we've seen in North Dakota (Chickasha is about to see a huge boom, for example). I'd hate for their schools to suffer a huge influx of kids without being able to realize a huge influx of money. Also, we're looking at times ahead where inflation might actually go north of 5%.

[pphilfran]

It's also not the time to be cutting taxes when education spending is so far below what it was just a few years ago. It's not the big suburban districts which are really hurting here, it's the rural school districts. Rural folks really value their local schools, but consolidation is going to definitely be a major discussion here in a few years as virtual schools and tax cuts start attacking these rural schools' revenue streams.

How many times in the last 5 years have we seen 3% increases? 5%? I don't know the answer, just asking...before saying it will hurt funding we need answers to those two questions...

Why should government get more and more of our paycheck (higher increases then inflation) instead of being smart and efficient with our money?

[Midtowner]

How many times in the last 5 years have we seen 3% increases? 5%? I don't know the answer, just asking...before saying it will hurt funding we need answers to those two questions...

Why should government get more and more of our paycheck (higher increases then inflation) instead of being smart and efficient with our money?

They've had to adjust downward in many cases lately. They shouldn't get more or less, they should tax the property according to what it's worth according to comps in the neighborhood, which is what they do. The formula should allow for the flexibility which sometimes exists in a housing market. Allowing it to adjust downward infinitely fast and then only allowing 5% per year increase is definitely going to hurt funding.

Schools are incredibly smart and efficient with our money though. So much so that they make classroom teachers spend their own measly paychecks on school supplies in most cases to be able to even do their jobs.

[pphilfran]

It was never advertised to fix everything. It was a bonus. In fact, it says in the Constitutional Amendment that it would be illegal for the legislature to cut funding and supplement that with lottery money, which is precisely what has happened. Your taxes don't automatically go up 5% every year, that's just the cap. If the property actually increases 5%, why should you not have to pay taxes on what your property is actually worth?

The fact is, with some of the oil and gas plays here in Oklahoma right now, certain areas are about to see home prices skyrocketing like we've seen in North Dakota (Chickasha is about to see a huge boom, for example). I'd hate for their schools to suffer a huge influx of kids without being able to realize a huge influx of money. Also, we're looking at times ahead where inflation might actually go north of 5%.

If it's value goes up 10% than a 10% increase in property taxes can have a severe impact on those that are borderline and living paycheck to paycheck...in the past I think Cali implemented something similar and it decimated their tax base (might be wrong)...people bought 100k homes years ago and then later were paying more in taxes than their initial house payment....

It is a tough decision on my part

[MamaMia]

Shall we go on to judges? :D

For starters...

OKLAHOMA SUPREME COURT JUSTICES - NO on Norma Gurich, Yvonne
Kauger and James Edmondson,

YES on Douglas Combs.

[pphilfran]

They've had to adjust downward in many cases lately. They shouldn't get more or less, they should tax the property according to what it's worth according to comps in the neighborhood, which is what they do. The formula should allow for the flexibility which sometimes exists in a housing market. Allowing it to adjust downward infinitely fast and then only allowing 5% per year increase is definitely going to hurt funding.

Schools are incredibly smart and efficient with our money though. So much so that they make classroom teachers spend their own measly paychecks on school supplies in most cases to be able to even do their jobs.

Forcing teachers to pay out of their pocket for supplies is not efficient or smart...

[pphilfran]

The problem with school funding goes back, in part, to too many districts....too many queen bees (sorry Vet) and not enough worker bees...

[pphilfran]

When it comes to schools I am a real radical...

I would extend the school year to year round...no long summer break...I would shorten each day and have a morning session for half the students and and afternoon session for the other half...

This would utilize our assets on a year round basis and reduce future building

[Midtowner]

Forcing teachers to pay out of their pocket for supplies is not efficient or smart...

I was pointing out how well funded our schools are with sarcasm.

[Midtowner]

Shall we go on to judges? :D

For starters...

OKLAHOMA SUPREME COURT JUSTICES - NO on Norma Gurich, Yvonne
Kauger and James Edmondson,

YES on Douglas Combs.

Why 'no' on Gurich? She hasn't even been there long enough for the ratings to count. Remember, she has been appointed to her positions by both Keating and Henry. My reading of her opinions has her being pretty pro-business. I don't think she got nearly enough credit for giving a written dissent on all of the mortgage appeal cases where she stated that notice pleading should apply in that the bank shouldn't have to prove their case essentially in their Petition. If you're looking at the Chamber of Commerce system, go read the disclaimer about Gurich and Combs' ratings being provisional because they haven't been there long enough.

[pphilfran]

I was pointing out how well funded our schools are with sarcasm.

Just because teachers buy their own supplies it does not mean there is enough funding...does not mean they are efficient with their funding....

Tends to tell me that leadership doesn't know what the hell they are doing...

[Midtowner]

Just because teachers buy their own supplies it does not mean there is enough funding...does not mean they are efficient with their funding....

Tends to tell me that leadership doesn't know what the hell they are doing...

Consolidation makes a lot of sense, but tell that to some of the rural folks on this board and you're liable to get an ear full.

[pphilfran]

I think we could accomplish it with a minimal reductions in actual schools..consolidate districts and make the school system less top heavy...

[Midtowner]

I think we could accomplish it with a minimal reductions in actual schools..consolidate districts and make the school system less top heavy...

I'd start with issuing lots of bonds for capital improvements and consolidating the physical plants, especially in Eastern Oklahoma where there's a school district every 5 miles. I'd build high quality, high efficiency buildings which would lower plant and equipment costs over time. Lots can be saved over time by having modern heating and cooling, energy efficient buildings and a lack of duplicated costs. Rural counties would be reduced to maybe 1 or two districts considering geographic limitations. Those districts would have one high school, one middle school and one elementary school all on the same campus. I'd also get rid of all administrative positions above principle and have the principles report directly to the school board.

[pphilfran]

I'd start with issuing lots of bonds for capital improvements and consolidating the physical plants, especially in Eastern Oklahoma where there's a school district every 5 miles. I'd build high quality, high efficiency buildings which would lower plant and equipment costs over time. Lots can be saved over time by having modern heating and cooling, energy efficient buildings and a lack of duplicated costs. Rural counties would be reduced to maybe 1 or two districts considering geographic limitations. Those districts would have one high school, one middle school and one elementary school all on the same campus. I'd also get rid of all administrative positions above principle and have the principles report directly to the school board.

I don't know if I agree with all of the above but it damn sure is better than what we currently have in place....

[MamaMia]

Why 'no' on Gurich? She hasn't even been there long enough for the ratings to count. Remember, she has been appointed to her positions by both Keating and Henry. My reading of her opinions has her being pretty pro-business. I don't think she got nearly enough credit for giving a written dissent on all of the mortgage appeal cases where she stated that notice pleading should apply in that the bank shouldn't have to prove their case essentially in their Petition. If you're looking at the Chamber of Commerce system, go read the disclaimer about Gurich and Combs' ratings being provisional because they haven't been there long enough.

Since our system went to the retention ballots, around 50 years ago, we have never rejected any of the Supremes or other appellate judges on the courts. They are almost always retained with a 58 to 68 percent majority vote. That has resulted in the Justices having no fear of the people, they know it will be in the bag for their retention. However, things may be changing. The State Chamber has formed an organization to come up with a grading system for the Justices and they have the money to propagandize the populace with information that could lead to some of these Justices being rejected. They are using their so called "pro business" standard to evaluate these Justices as either pro- business or anti business.

I have a problem with their narrow field for evaluation. On top of that, through some investigation by some of our lawmakers it was determined that at least 2 of the corporations that have supplied the money for this effort, appear before the Supreme Court from time to time. I believe that calls into question a strong possibility for a conflict of interest.

While the bench is supposed to be free from partisan politics, don’t be naive. It is nearly impossible for an individual to lay aside their personal worldview and ideology when it comes to adjudicating. Eight of the 9 Supremes have been put on the Court by a Democrat governor. Think that doesn’t matter, a similar court in Florida injected itself into the Bush vs. Gore presidential race in 2000, though the Florida Constitution clearly gave the power to certify all elections to a duly elected secretary of state, or perhaps it was an elected election secretary. Evidence of the politicizing of the Supremes was evident when Brad Henry lifted mountains and turned back rivers with his little finger to expedite a last minute opportunity to put Gurich on the Court and deny Governor Fallin what should have been her appointment.

Bottom line, there is a tremendous struggle going on in Oklahoma between the trial lawyers who have controlled the state and the bench for decades versus the State Chamber, trying to gain control, so they can lower the cost of business insurance and worker- comp rates. That is why Governor Henry, a Democrat who owes his political fortunes to the trial lawyers and James Dunn, a Republican trial lawyer are running TV ads urging the retention of these Justices.

On the other hand, the State Chamber is distributing their Index showing low scores for these Justices. Normally, no one raises money to make a campaign on these retention ballots. It will be interesting to watch. I don't really have a problem with voting out Douglas Combs, I only suggested a yes vote because he is fairly new on the bench and if some of his colleagues are booted, it may send a signal to him and his fellow Justices that the people can no longer be counted on to give them an automatic retention. It might finally establish some accountability.

[MamaMia]

I would also like to add that Keatings a crook and has personal motives involving the sell of Oklahomas water, so you can bet any decision he makes is self serving and all one has to do is look a little deeper to find his personal agenda in any action he takes.

[MamaMia]

Lets go on to the State Court of Appeals...

I say NO on Judges Thomas Thornbrugh,
William C. Hetherington Jr.
Robert Bobby Bell
and E. Bay Mitchell.

People in the legal system whom I respect indicate that Judge Kenneth L. Buettner should be retained. Because I don't know much about him but trust their judgment I am voting with them and checking a YES for Judge Buettner.

[LiveLaughLove]

I always vote to remove all judges every time. I dislike judges more than politicians, and that is mind boggling.

Every stinking politician and judge (that are voted on) should have term limits.

[badger]

Consolidation makes a lot of sense, but tell that to some of the rural folks on this board and you're liable to get an ear full.

Yeah, I remember when TPS was doing Project Schoolhouse (where they were closing and consolidating some elementaries citywide) and people were fine with it... so long as it wasn't THEIR school that was getting closed and consolidated :)

[Midtowner]

Since our system went to the retention ballots, around 50 years ago, we have never rejected any of the Supremes or other appellate judges on the courts. They are almost always retained with a 58 to 68 percent majority vote. That has resulted in the Justices having no fear of the people, they know it will be in the bag for their retention. However, things may be changing. The State Chamber has formed an organization to come up with a grading system for the Justices and they have the money to propagandize the populace with information that could lead to some of these Justices being rejected. They are using their so called "pro business" standard to evaluate these Justices as either pro- business or anti business.

I have a problem with their narrow field for evaluation. On top of that, through some investigation by some of our lawmakers it was determined that at least 2 of the corporations that have supplied the money for this effort, appear before the Supreme Court from time to time. I believe that calls into question a strong possibility for a conflict of interest.

While the bench is supposed to be free from partisan politics, don’t be naive. It is nearly impossible for an individual to lay aside their personal worldview and ideology when it comes to adjudicating. Eight of the 9 Supremes have been put on the Court by a Democrat governor. Think that doesn’t matter, a similar court in Florida injected itself into the Bush vs. Gore presidential race in 2000, though the Florida Constitution clearly gave the power to certify all elections to a duly elected secretary of state, or perhaps it was an elected election secretary. Evidence of the politicizing of the Supremes was evident when Brad Henry lifted mountains and turned back rivers with his little finger to expedite a last minute opportunity to put Gurich on the Court and deny Governor Fallin what should have been her appointment.

Bottom line, there is a tremendous struggle going on in Oklahoma between the trial lawyers who have controlled the state and the bench for decades versus the State Chamber, trying to gain control, so they can lower the cost of business insurance and worker- comp rates. That is why Governor Henry, a Democrat who owes his political fortunes to the trial lawyers and James Dunn, a Republican trial lawyer are running TV ads urging the retention of these Justices.

On the other hand, the State Chamber is distributing their Index showing low scores for these Justices. Normally, no one raises money to make a campaign on these retention ballots. It will be interesting to watch. I don't really have a problem with voting out Douglas Combs, I only suggested a yes vote because he is fairly new on the bench and if some of his colleagues are booted, it may send a signal to him and his fellow Justices that the people can no longer be counted on to give them an automatic retention. It might finally establish some accountability.

The thing is, I know Justice Gurich very well personally. That said, I haven't a clue what her political leanings are, except I believe at one time she was a registered Republican and an insurance defense attorney. She was put on the Workers Compensation Court by Henry Bellmon, then again by Walters, then to be a District Court Judge by Keating, then to the Supreme Court by Henry. A good deal of my practice is in appeals (Gurich recuses from my cases because of the personal relationship), but I have a lot of faith in that institution. I've discussed the Chamber poll with various judicial types and the biggest concern is that we don't even know what 'pro-business' is, unless we want to start pressuring our courts to allow professional misconduct to go on with no remedy or for corporations to hurt their workers and not be accountable at all, I'm not sure what sorts of partisan results you're talking about.

At least with the trial lawyers in control there is some balance. The insurance defense Bar and the plaintiff's Bar both fight different legislative agendas. I'm really part of neither as my major practice area has nothing to do with worker's compensation, personal injury or any kind of tort law.

Judges should be there to call balls and strikes, not advance a separate legislative agenda.

[MamaMia]

Thats cool Mid. These are just my picks. You have to vote your conscience. :)


OK...For those conservatives voting today/Some friendly suggestions...

I am on medical leave as a campaign consultant, statistical researcher and speech writer, which means you all are probably better at this than me. :D but I wanted to be honest in letting you know that I feel our party has some problems with conservatism across the state. Now, I don't know where most of you live but I do have a heads up list I would like to share with some why and why nots that may surprise you. You may want to consider this list I printed out for friends across the state who will be voting today, as you too will be.

STATE SENATE SEATS - After the district number I will list the counties in which all or part of the district is contained. In several cases I will not be picking the Republican candidates. He's :devilish:

While they will almost always be better than the Democrat, we are beyond the need for a larger Republican majority, we now need to concentrate on electing better and more conservative Republicans to office.

S.D. 3 - Adair, Cherokee, Delaware, Mays and Rogers - YOUR CHOICE

The Republican, Wayne Shaw, is a moderate to liberal Minister who beat the conservative Republican in the primary by 30 votes. Again, we are not looking for a larger Republican majority, but better quality, more conservative Republicans to hold office.

S.D. 5 - Atoka, Choctaw, LeFlore, McCurtain and Pushmataha - HOWARD HOUCHEN

I ran for the House in this district when it was 96.7% democrat to save our water from being sold. Tough tough place for a republican. Howard is a solid conservative running against the incumbent Jerry Ellis. This is a very difficult district. If a Republican can win this seat, now is the time. OCPAC supports Howard in this race.

S.D. 7 - Haskell, Hughes, Latimer, Okfuskee and Pittsburg - YOUR CHOICE

I have had no contact with the Republican Larry Boggs and don't know a thing about him. This is another very difficult district for a Republican.

S.D. 9 - Cherokee and Muskogee - YOUR CHOICE

The Republican, Barney Taylor came before OCPAC, but didn't appear to be a viable candidate. While he has a good heart, he is not ready for this position.

S.D. 11 - Osage and Tulsa - DAVE BELL

Dave is a solid conservative, but is running in a largely black district and has virtually no chance to win. While the voters in some districts in the state will not vote for a Democrat, others will not vote for a Republican. Unfortunately for Dave, he lives in the wrong district.

S.D. 13 - Garvin, Hughes, Pontotoc, Pottawatomie and Seminole - SUSAN PADDACK

I am picking the Democrat incumbent in this race because of the problems with the Republican, Fred Smith. During part of this campaign, Mr. Smith was serving time in jail for one or more charges. I don't know him personally but he hasnt been upfront and when you run for an office representing others, you don't have the luxury of privacy any longer. He is not the kind of candidate we want to represent the Republican party.

S.D. 15 - Cleveland and Oklahoma - ROB STANDRIDGE

While Rob didn't come to OCPAC, I have had several communications with him. Other conservatives in the district who know Rob assure me he is a serious conservative. I believe he will be a better Senator than Jonathan Nichols, who can’t run again because of term limits.

S.D. 27 - My town...Beaver, Cimmaron, Dewey, Ellis, Harper, Major, Texas, Woods
and Woodward - BRYCE MARLATT

Senator Marlatt finished his first 4 years with a lifetime Conservative Index number of 66. If he gets any worse, perhaps a more conservative Republican will run against him 4 years from now. I just don't want to replace him with a Democrat.

S.D. 31 - Comanche, Cotton, Jefferson, Stephens and Tillman - DON BARRINGTON

I can barely recommend Senator Barrington’s re-election. He has a lifetime conservative index score of a 60, helped along with this year’s score of a 70. A retired fire chief from Lawton, Don is a nice enough fellow, he simply is not very conservative.

S.D. 39 - Tulsa - YOUR CHOICE

The Republican Brian Crain’s lifetime Conservative Index score is a 60. He was the winner of this year’s RINO (Republican In Name Only) award from OCPAC. Our endorsed candidate lost a close race to him in the primary. Now we will probably have to put up with this liberal for his final 4 years before term limits takes him out.

S.D. 41 - Oklahoma - CLARK JOLLEY

Clark is a former Senator before re-districting. While his 69 lifetime average is acceptable, we worked very hard to replace him with Paul Blair in the Republican primary race as I believed that Paul would be a far more conservative senator. However, I also know the independent Richard Prawdzienski and can tell you I would almost rather talk with a block wall than Richard. He is a nice enough fellow, but we honestly have a hard time trying to understand his logic. After working with colleagues, that added up to a cumulative of several hours of conversation with Richard, I don’t believe anyone has ever convinced him of a thing. He is also hostile toward the influence of Christians.

S.D. 43 - Garvin, Grady, McClain and Stephens - COREY BROOKS

I believe Mr. Brooks is one of the most intelligent and articulate candidates we have ever had. Yet, his support of corporate welfare based on his value system of situational ethics caused our vote to support him to be very close. I believe there is little to limit his possibilities. Should he fully develop a consistent conservative ideology and move closer to a value system of absolute truth, he will become a leader of the conservative movement in Oklahoma.

[MamaMia]

So, who are you all going to support for Oklahoma County sheriff?

My choice is Darrell Sorrells.

[Fraggle145]

Yep, I'm voting No on all SQ's. Maybe with the exception of 762. 764 - the OWRB question - is a DEFINITE NO. Like Mid said their no oversight. It basically lets OWRB operate outside of gov with a blank check.

[Mjcpr]

The OWRB SQ has nothing to do with projects or oversight, it has to do with pledging this credit to give OWRB a better interest rate when they issue their revenue bonds to loan to OK communities that could not achieve such cheap borrowing on their own. The project bidding and oversight is then up to the communities to handle per their procedures and in most cases, state law.

[Mjcpr]

Wow, Mama, all of your votes and exact language supporting your choice is literally exactly the same as Charlie Meadows, whoever that is. What are the odds?!

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ocpacupdate/NWw1FTnqdE8


State Question 768.....YES

State Question 769.....YES

State Question 762.....NO

State Question 764.....NO

State Question 765.....YES

State Question 766.....YES


This is why I will vote YES...

This is one of those tricky ones. I wholeheartedly agree with the State Chamber on this one because its pro-business. With the exception of OK-SAFE, I know of no other grass-roots organization that is taking an anti-business stance on this issue.

Conservative grass-roots organizations are not anti-business, our beef with the State Chamber is over their preference for a form of fascist and socialist capitalism rather than support of free market capitalism. If this measure passes it will prevent property taxes from being applied to intangible items such as patents, trademarks, certifications, customer lists and on an on.

I am opposed to taxing businesses for a couple of reasons. First, businesses consider taxes as overhead, therefore they increase the costs of their goods and services to cover the tax, thus it is the people purchasing the goods or services that actually pay the tax and not the business. However, since the cost of the tax is imbedded into the price, the consumer never knows how much of the cost is tax which means we have then allowed politicians to hide the true cost of government. Second, it forces those businesses to raise their prices which then makes them less competitive in a national or global marketplace.

If we want a strong economy and good jobs, we should insist government get its revenues from the consumptive (sales taxes and fees) side of the economy rather than the productive (business and income taxes) side of the economy. Voting yes on this pro-business.


Since our system went to the retention ballots, around 50 years ago, we have never rejected any of the Supremes or other appellate judges on the courts. They are almost always retained with a 58 to 68 percent majority vote. That has resulted in the Justices having no fear of the people, they know it will be in the bag for their retention. However, things may be changing. The State Chamber has formed an organization to come up with a grading system for the Justices and they have the money to propagandize the populace with information that could lead to some of these Justices being rejected. They are using their so called "pro business" standard to evaluate these Justices as either pro- business or anti business.

I have a problem with their narrow field for evaluation. On top of that, through some investigation by some of our lawmakers it was determined that at least 2 of the corporations that have supplied the money for this effort, appear before the Supreme Court from time to time. I believe that calls into question a strong possibility for a conflict of interest.

While the bench is supposed to be free from partisan politics, don’t be naive. It is nearly impossible for an individual to lay aside their personal worldview and ideology when it comes to adjudicating. Eight of the 9 Supremes have been put on the Court by a Democrat governor. Think that doesn’t matter, a similar court in Florida injected itself into the Bush vs. Gore presidential race in 2000, though the Florida Constitution clearly gave the power to certify all elections to a duly elected secretary of state, or perhaps it was an elected election secretary. Evidence of the politicizing of the Supremes was evident when Brad Henry lifted mountains and turned back rivers with his little finger to expedite a last minute opportunity to put Gurich on the Court and deny Governor Fallin what should have been her appointment.

Bottom line, there is a tremendous struggle going on in Oklahoma between the trial lawyers who have controlled the state and the bench for decades versus the State Chamber, trying to gain control, so they can lower the cost of business insurance and worker- comp rates. That is why Governor Henry, a Democrat who owes his political fortunes to the trial lawyers and James Dunn, a Republican trial lawyer are running TV ads urging the retention of these Justices.

On the other hand, the State Chamber is distributing their Index showing low scores for these Justices. Normally, no one raises money to make a campaign on these retention ballots. It will be interesting to watch. I don't really have a problem with voting out Douglas Combs, I only suggested a yes vote because he is fairly new on the bench and if some of his colleagues are booted, it may send a signal to him and his fellow Justices that the people can no longer be counted on to give them an automatic retention. It might finally establish some accountability.


Thats cool Mid. These are just my picks. You have to vote your conscience. :)


OK...For those conservatives voting today/Some friendly suggestions...

I am on medical leave as a campaign consultant, statistical researcher and speech writer, which means you all are probably better at this than me. :D but I wanted to be honest in letting you know that I feel our party has some problems with conservatism across the state. Now, I don't know where most of you live but I do have a heads up list I would like to share with some why and why nots that may surprise you. You may want to consider this list I printed out for friends across the state who will be voting today, as you too will be.

STATE SENATE SEATS - After the district number I will list the counties in which all or part of the district is contained. In several cases I will not be picking the Republican candidates. :devilish:

While they will almost always be better than the Democrat, we are beyond the need for a larger Republican majority, we now need to concentrate on electing better and more conservative Republicans to office.

S.D. 3 - Adair, Cherokee, Delaware, Mays and Rogers - YOUR CHOICE

The Republican, Wayne Shaw, is a moderate to liberal Minister who beat the conservative Republican in the primary by 30 votes. Again, we are not looking for a larger Republican majority, but better quality, more conservative Republicans to hold office.

S.D. 5 - Atoka, Choctaw, LeFlore, McCurtain and Pushmataha - HOWARD HOUCHEN

I ran for the House in this district when it was 96.7% democrat to save our water from being sold. Tough tough place for a republican. Howard is a solid conservative running against the incumbent Jerry Ellis. This is a very difficult district. If a Republican can win this seat, now is the time. OCPAC supports Howard in this race.

S.D. 7 - Haskell, Hughes, Latimer, Okfuskee and Pittsburg - YOUR CHOICE

I have had no contact with the Republican Larry Boggs and don't know a thing about him. This is another very difficult district for a Republican.

S.D. 9 - Cherokee and Muskogee - YOUR CHOICE

The Republican, Barney Taylor came before OCPAC, but didn't appear to be a viable candidate. While he has a good heart, he is not ready for this position.

S.D. 11 - Osage and Tulsa - DAVE BELL

Dave is a solid conservative, but is running in a largely black district and has virtually no chance to win. While the voters in some districts in the state will not vote for a Democrat, others will not vote for a Republican. Unfortunately for Dave, he lives in the wrong district.

S.D. 13 - Garvin, Hughes, Pontotoc, Pottawatomie and Seminole - SUSAN PADDACK

I am picking the Democrat incumbent in this race because of the problems with the Republican, Fred Smith. During part of this campaign, Mr. Smith was serving time in jail for one or more charges. I don't know him personally but he hasnt been upfront and when you run for an office representing others, you don't have the luxury of privacy any longer. He is not the kind of candidate we want to represent the Republican party.

S.D. 15 - Cleveland and Oklahoma - ROB STANDRIDGE

While Rob didn't come to OCPAC, I have had several communications with him. Other conservatives in the district who know Rob assure me he is a serious conservative. I believe he will be a better Senator than Jonathan Nichols, who can’t run again because of term limits.

S.D. 27 - My town...Beaver, Cimmaron, Dewey, Ellis, Harper, Major, Texas, Woods
and Woodward - BRYCE MARLATT

Senator Marlatt finished his first 4 years with a lifetime Conservative Index number of 66. If he gets any worse, perhaps a more conservative Republican will run against him 4 years from now. I just don't want to replace him with a Democrat.

S.D. 31 - Comanche, Cotton, Jefferson, Stephens and Tillman - DON BARRINGTON

I can barely recommend Senator Barrington’s re-election. He has a lifetime conservative index score of a 60, helped along with this year’s score of a 70. A retired fire chief from Lawton, Don is a nice enough fellow, he simply is not very conservative.

S.D. 39 - Tulsa - YOUR CHOICE

The Republican Brian Crain’s lifetime Conservative Index score is a 60. He was the winner of this year’s RINO (Republican In Name Only) award from OCPAC. Our endorsed candidate lost a close race to him in the primary. Now we will probably have to put up with this liberal for his final 4 years before term limits takes him out.

S.D. 41 - Oklahoma - CLARK JOLLEY

Clark is a former Senator before re-districting. While his 69 lifetime average is acceptable, we worked very hard to replace him with Paul Blair in the Republican primary race as I believed that Paul would be a far more conservative senator. However, I also know the independent Richard Prawdzienski and can tell you I would almost rather talk with a block wall than Richard. He is a nice enough fellow, but we honestly have a hard time trying to understand his logic. After working with colleagues, that added up to a cumulative of several hours of conversation with Richard, I don’t believe anyone has ever convinced him of a thing. He is also hostile toward the influence of Christians.

S.D. 43 - Garvin, Grady, McClain and Stephens - COREY BROOKS

I believe Mr. Brooks is one of the most intelligent and articulate candidates we have ever had. Yet, his support of corporate welfare based on his value system of situational ethics caused our vote to support him to be very close. I believe there is little to limit his possibilities. Should he fully develop a consistent conservative ideology and move closer to a value system of absolute truth, he will become a leader of the conservative movement in Oklahoma.

[jk the sooner fan]

doh

[jk the sooner fan]

:pop:

[MamaMia]

Wow, Mama, all of your votes and exact language supporting your choice is literally exactly the same as Charlie Meadows, whoever that is. What are the odds?!

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ocpacupdate/NWw1FTnqdE8
Like I said..."This is why I will vote yes....


I absolutely agree with Charlie, and Carolyn. I pass this on every year.

I'm waiting on the House info now and hope to pass that along with any possible additions or revisions.

[Midtowner]

So, who are you all going to support for Oklahoma County sheriff?

My choice is Darrell Sorrells.

Sorrels is an absolute moonbat.

I heard him on KTOK on a Sunday talk show going on about the U.N., national politics and various things which had nothing to do with the Sheriff's race. Sounds like a John Bircher. No thanks.

[MamaMia]

Came through from Carolyn....Part Two...
MY PiCKS ON HOUSE

STATE HOUSE RACES

H.D. 2 - Sequoyah - JOHN BENNETT - Because of missing some
important votes during his freshman term, this Republican incumbent’s
Conservative Index score of a 65 is probably not reflective of his
true level of conservativism. He is probably the first Republican to
be elected from this area, and will have a tough job holding on to his
seat.

H.D. 3 - Leflore - ROGER MATTOX - Roger barely lost to the
incumbent, James Lockhart during an open seat race two years ago. It
will be interesting to see if a larger turn-out of people voting in a
Presidential year will help Roger more than the power of the
incumbency for Democrat Lockhart. OCPAC has endorsed Roger.

H.D. 12 - Wagoner - DAVID TACKETT - David showed to be a serious
conservative during our OCPAC interview process and easily won our
support. He is running against Democrat incumbent Wade Rousselot, who
is most likely being supported by the State Chamber. Wade is using a
photo of himself and Governor Fallin to imply her endorsement for him.
She should have gone to the district and done a couple of events with
Mr. Tackett, but did nothing. The powers to be are angry with David
because he was supporting one or more of the conservative Republicans
who challenged the moderate to liberal Republican during this year’s
primary season. David has also not supported further tort reform which
causes him trouble with the establishment.

H.D. 14 - Cherokee and Muskogee - ARTHUR HULBERT - Mr. Hulbert was
very impressive during his appearance at OCPAC. He appeared to be a
man of high moral character and intelligence. While he has not fully
developed a conservative ideology, he appears to be hungry to learn.
He frequently wrote down issues he was not familiar with for future
study. He is running for George Faught’s vacated seat and should win.
He has a chance to make an excellent lawmaker. He is an OCPAC
supported candidate.

H.D. 16 - Muskogee, Okmulgee, Tulsa, and Wagoner - YOUR CHOICE - I
don’t know a thing about the Republican James Delso as he failed to
appear before OCPAC and I have no other information about him.

H.D. 20 - Cleveland, Garvin, McClain and Pottawatomie - BOBBY
CLEVELAND - I have known Bobby for several years and can say he has
been a bit of a lightening rod over time, at least in Cleveland
County. Though he interviewed well at OCPAC, some of our members had
personal issues with Mr. Cleveland and as such he didn’t receive our
support. This is a completely new district and Bobby will win with a
sizeable margin. His opponent is a hard core athiest. I believe Bobby
will surprise a good deal of people with just how conservative he will
turn out to be. Please remember, this is my opinion and it is
different from the members of OCPAC.

H.D. 21 - Bryan - YOUR CHOICE - The freshman Dustin Roberts has an
unacceptable Conservative Index score of a 57 after his first two
years in office. He is probably the first Republican to serve in this
district, hopefully a better Republican will be the representative
from that district some time in the future. The freshman Senator,
Republican Josh Brecheen, from the same area scored a 77 after his
first two years so a person can govern conservatively in this
area.

H.D. 22 - Atoka, Garvin, Johnston and Murray - YOUR CHOICE - I
don’t know a thing about the Republican, he didn’t come to OCPAC and I
have had no other contact with him.

H.D. 23 - Rogers, Tulsa and Wagoner - TERRY O-DONNELL -
Unfortunately the Republican, Terry O’Donnell beat out the
conservative Jason Carini during the primary races. This is Sue Tibbs
former seat, hopefully he will be more conservative than
Representative Tibbs.

H.D. 26 - Pottawatomie - JUSTIN FREELAND WOOD - This is Kris
Steele’s seat and one would normally think the Republicans would hold
this seat. However, the Democrat is a strong candidate and sources
tell me former Governor Henry is helping the Democrat. Mr. Wood,
though young, is very sharp and a true conservative candidate. He is
also working very hard and I believe he will pull this out in the end.
He has received the endorsement of OCPAC.

H.D. 27 - Cleveland and Pottawatomie - JOSH COCKROFT -
Representative Cockroft is another sharp young conservative, supported
by OCPAC. This is one to keep an eye on as his Democrat opponent is a
strong candidate. Fortunately, Josh is working very hard and has the
necessary funds to prevail.

H.D. 28 - Pottawatomie and Seminole - TOM NEWELL - Representative
Newell is the most conservative freshmen in the legislature. He has a
bright future and though he is running in a fairly difficult district,
he does well enough with the voters to win re-election. He is another
candidate supported by OCPAC.

H.D. 29 - Creek and Tulsa - SKYE McNIEL - Representative McNiel’s
lifetime Conservative Index score at a 61 is barely high enough to
deserve re-election.

H.D. 32 - Lincoln and Logan - JASON SMALLEY - Another very
impressive young Republican candidate running against Keith Kinnamon,
the son of the former liberal Democrat Representative, Don Kinnamon.
Three time RINO winner and two time runner-up, Senator Harry Coates (R-
Seminole), has endorsed the Democrat. Hopefully the low moral
character of Coates and his liberalism will be a poison pill for
Kinnamon. Langston University is now in this district and normally
that would make this a very difficult race. However, the polling place
is now in town and not on campus and the registration numbers are down
at Langston, so perhaps Jason has a shot at winning this seat. He is
also an OCPAC supported candidate.

H.D. 36 - Osage and Tulsa - SEAN ROBERTS - Republican
Representative Roberts survived a close race in the primaries. He is
currently ranked tied for the 7th most conservative Republican in the
House and deserves re-election. OCPAC supported him 2 years ago as it
was an open seat at that time.

H.D. 37 - Kay and Osage - STEVE VAUGHN - Representative Vaughn
slipped a little in his score this year, but still has a 2 year
average of a 72 on the Conservative Index. This could be a close race
as the Democrat is the former Superintendent of the Ponca City School
district. Steve is an OCPAC supported candidate. Should he win, we
hope he will improve his score.

H.D. 42 - Garvin and McClain - YOUR CHOICE - Representative Lisa
Billy (R-Purcell) is this year’s winner of the RINO award in the
House. While we appreciate her strong support for pro-life issues,
there are many more issues that lawmakers have to face. Her lifetime
Conservative Index score of a 57 ranks her tied as the 60th most
conservative Republican in the House. While it probably won’t happen,
it would not be much of a loss is she lost to this Democrat.

H.D. 45 - Cleveland - AARON STILES - This is probably the most
closely divided house districts in the state as it goes back and forth
from election cycle to election cycle. We haven’t had to worry about
term limits forcing anyone out in this district. After his first 2
years in office, Representative Stiles has a lifetime Conservative
Index score of a 71. Hopefully he will win and improve his score going
forward.

H.D. 47 - Canadian and Grady - LESLIE OSBORN - Representative
Osborn’s lifetime score on the Conservative Index is only a 62.
However, she is more conservative than the score indicates as she lost
a lot of points due to missing several votes when she missed attending
a key part of the legislative session in 2010. She decided to spend
time with her mother who passed away toward the end of the session.
She will probably never rank among the top 10 lawmakers due to a few
inconsistencies in her thinking, however, she is a forceful person for
conservatism most of the time.

H.D. 48 - Carter, Garvin and Murray - PATRICK OWENBY -
Representative Owenby’s lifetime Conservative Index score is a 63
which is barely acceptable. We have had no contact with him over the 4
years he has been in office. It is unlikely he will ever attain to
much more than being a 60 to 70 percent lawmaker.

H.D. 51 - Grady, McClain and Stephens - SCOTT BIGGS - When Corey
Holland announced at the last moment before filing that he would not
run again, conservatives scrambled to come up with a candidate other
than the establishments hand picked candidate. Mr. Biggs eventually
beat the establishment candidate and will most likely beat the
Democrat in the general election. I have had no contact with Mr.
Biggs, but hope he will turn out to be a solid conservative should he
win.

H.D. 56 - Caddo, Grady and Kiowa - YOUR CHOICE - The consistently
liberal Republican Phil Richardson (lifetime index score of 56)
announced at the last moment that he would not run, but his friend
Chuck Utsler filed for office. Due to a strong Democrat candidate and
the new configuration of the district, the Republicans could lose this
seat. Mr. Utsler might turn out to be a good lawmaker if he wins, if
not the Republicans will not have lost a lot comparing Representative
Richardson to some of the more conservative Democrats.

H.D. 60 - Caddo and Canadian - DAN FISHER - Dan should easily win
this race in what is a newly created district against a particularly
weak Democrat candidate. I know Dan well and fully expect him to
consistently rank in the top 10 lawmakers on the Conservative Index
Score. Should Bobby Cleveland win in H.D. 20 and Dan win in this race,
it will represent a pick up of 2 seats for the Republicans as the
former configurations for these two seats were both held by Democrats.
Dan is an OCPAC supported candidate.

H.D. 66 - Osage and Tulsa - JADINE NOLIN - Representative is so
typical of the majority of rural Republicans, they often don’t have a
conservative ideology developed. Representative Nolin’s lifetime
Conservative Index score is a 65.

H.D. 71 - Tulsa - KATIE HENKE - Mrs. Henke and her very liberal
opponent were in a special election earlier this year when the outcome
showed the Democrat had won the race by, I believe 2 votes. In a
recount, Katie ended up winning by 1 vote, but alas 2 more ballots
were mysteriously found in one of the ballot boxes, both of which went
for the Democrat. A judge ruled the outcome could not be fairly
determined, so the seat was left vacant until now as the same 2
candidates are going after it again. I look for Katie to win this
fairly easy with a much larger turn-out by Republicans who are
motivated to defeat President Obama. Katie, does have connections to
the Tulsa Chamber which should be of some concern to conservatives.

H.D. 72 - Tulsa - YOUR CHOICE - The Republican, Randall Reese is
running against the Democrat incumbent Seneca Scott. However, Mr.
Reese did not come to OCPAC for an interview and I just simply don’t
know anything about him.

H.D. 76 - Tulsa - DAVID BRUMBAUGH - Representative Brumbaugh was
the runner-up for freshman of the year in 2011. He is very
conscientious as a lawmaker and should have an easy victory on
Tuesday. David is an OCPAC supported candidate.

H.D. 78 - Tulsa - YOUR CHOICE - The Republican, Paul Catalano is
running against the Democrat incumbent, Jeanie McDaniel.
Representative McDaniel’s lifetime Conservative Index score is a
paltry 17. Only Emily Virgin out of Norman is more liberal than
McDaniel. I am sure Mr. Catalano would be much more conservative than
McDaniel, but he didn’t come to OCPAC and I have no information on
him.

H.D. 83 - Oklahoma - RANDY MCDANIEL - Representative McDaniel has
a lifetime score on the Conservative Index of a 76 which ranks him as
the 18th most conservative Republican lawmaker. He has done excellent
work to restore the state retirement systems without a tax increase
and he thus deserves re-election.

H.D. 86 - Adair, Cherokee and Delaware - RUSSELL TURNER - This
is a very difficult district for a Republican candidate. While Mr.
Turner didn’t come for our interview, I have known him for several
years. In fact he used to write a short common sense conservative
column for his local newspaper which was also sent out via e-mail. I
used to enjoy reading them. He ran for county commissioner and won,
then all hell broke lose. He had a barn burned and cattle killed, the
yellow dogs in the area didn’t like a Republican in office. However,
Russell is a brave man and if a Republican has a chance to win, it
would be Mr. Turner.

H.D. 87 - Oklahoma - JASON NELSON - While this seat has been in
Republican hands for many years, the Democrats always seem to come
close to taking this seat. Representative Nelson was a lobbyist prior
to winning this seat 4 years ago. He is very bright and had a huge
advantage over his fellow freshmen as he knew the process very well
before taking office. When it comes to legislation he is an effective
lawmaker, though with a lifetime Conservative Index score of a 70, I
would love to see him be more conservative.

H.D. 88 - Oklahoma - YOUR CHOICE - The Republican candidate,
Aaron Kaspereit didn’t appear at OCPAC, but it probably doesn’t
matter. He is running against a radically liberal Democrat in a
district that includes downtown OKC and the Paseo area. The District
has a high concentration of homosexuals and is full of the artsy-
fartsy crowd. I believe it is a district that is virtually impossible
for a Republican to win, unless the Republican were more liberal than
the Democrat, which in this case would be virtually impossible.

H.D. 99 - Oklahoma - YOUR CHOICE - This is the 3rd time the
Republican Willard Linzy has run for this seat and he has come to
OCPAC each time. We have never supported him as he is not very
conservative and though he is black as is the Democrat, the largely
Northeast OKC district just will not vote for a Republican. I
personally like Willard, but he has virtually no chance of winning.

H.D. 101 - Oklahoma - GARY BANZ - Representative Banz has a
lifetime Conservative Index score of 70. While I have sometimes
disagreed with some of the legislation that Gary authors, he is a nice
fellow and his score is certainly high enough to deserve re-election.
His score of a 63 last year was low enough for us to interview his
Republican opponent this year. OCPAC didn’t endorse him because he
lacked viability, but I did because I believed him to be more
conservative than Gary. However, his lack of viability proved to be
the case and Gary easily won in the primary.
"Oklahoma Conservative Political Action"

I have the email address for those of you I haven't given it to yet, who may be interested.

If I get any other info, I will pass it along.

Like I said. I don't know where you all live. We all can only vote for the candidates running in our own districts unfortunately. :) but as explained...I'm passing this along to friends to print out and use as a guide. I personally had no affiliation with the House this year but I trust this is all correct.

[MamaMia]

Sorrels is an absolute moonbat.

I heard him on KTOK on a Sunday talk show going on about the U.N., national politics and various things which had nothing to do with the Sheriff's race. Sounds like a John Bircher. No thanks.Reminds me of the sheriff that ran here a while back. He kept me on my porch so long taking about non legal stuff that I had him help me carry my pansies around to the different beds. I really didn't know either one very well. Both candidates seemed like nice guys when they spoke at our Woodward County Republican meetings, so I voted for the gardeners helper. :D

[Mjcpr]

Like I said..."This is why I will vote yes....

I absolutely agree with Charlie, and Carolyn. I pass this on every year.

I'm waiting on the House info now and hope to pass that along with any possible additions or revisions.

Oh. Since you didnt attribute it to anyone and because your posts were saying I and me and because I figured you would be able to make your own choices and because you said "Thats cool Mid. These are just my picks. You have to vote your conscience. :)", I figured it was your own thoughts on how and why you were going to vote.


Came through from Carolyn....Part Two...
MY PiCKS ON HOUSE

STATE HOUSE RACES



No need in waiting, you could've picked it up from the link I provided earlier....your house race voting instructions were there all along. :)

[MamaMia]

Sorrels is an absolute moonbat.

I heard him on KTOK on a Sunday talk show going on about the U.N., national politics and various things which had nothing to do with the Sheriff's race. Sounds like a John Bircher. No thanks.I told you in the pm that I would see if I could find the Sorrels info and send it along but I found it in my SENTS because I had deleted it after I made a ote to self and passed it along to a poster last night. I think its too long for a pm, so here ya go...let me know what you think. :)

OKLAHOMA COUNTY SHERIFF - DARRELL SORRELLS - Mr. Sorrells is
retired from the Sheriff’s office where he served in many capacities.
He is currently a contract deputy for the U.S. Marshall’s office.
While a deputy sheriff, without the help of Sheriff Whetsel, he was
able to institute a limited Character First program for some of the
staff members. If elected he hopes to make that available for all
employees as well as for the inmates. If accomplished, that would
improve the performance and stability of the work force and could make
a real difference in the lives of inmates, which in turn will help to
keep down the return rate. Darrell understands the importance of the
Sheriff being willing to stand up against unconstitutional edicts
being handed down from the Federal government. He is a man of high
moral character, integrity and will make an excellent sheriff if
elected. He is not in favor of spending hundreds of millions of
taxpayer dollars to build a new jail. He believes the current jail can
be brought up to acceptable standards for around $40 million. On the
other hand, current sheriff John Whetsel ran against former sheriff
J.D. Sharp 16 years ago with pledge to solve the problems at the jail.
After 16 years the problems still aren’t solved. A couple of years ago
the feds came in with an ultimatum to fix the problems or they have
threatened to take over the operations of the jail. Craig Dawkins,
served on the Oklahoma County Jail Task Force before it was disbanded.
He read every word in the federal report and has indicated most of the
problems with the jail were a result of miss-management. If one has a
long enough memory, Whetsel has a long history of questionable issues,
at least for conservatives. Several years ago he came to an OCPAC
meeting as a visitor at the invitation of one of our members. During
the conversations he made it known that he was not in favor of the pro-
life positions. In 1994-95, John Whetsel served as the President of
the International Chiefs of Police, a very liberal organization.
During that time he worked very hard for passage of the Brady Bill, a
real assault on 2nd Amendment rights, though he claimed otherwise. He
was even recognized by then President Bill Clinton in public at their
annual banquet for his efforts to get the measure passed. At the same
time this liberal organization was strategizing on how to prevent the
states from passing concealed carry laws. He has continued to maintain
his membership in that liberal organization, at least through 2010.
About 9 years ago, he shocked then mayor Kirk Humphries and many
others when he was successful in gaining enough signatures to call for
a county wide election to increase sales taxes in Oklahoma county. I
believe it was to be 3/8s of a cent with all of it going to his
department. The powers to be organized an effort and the measure went
down in flames. There have been many wrongful death lawsuits won by
the families of inmates killed or dying while in the jail. This has
cost the citizens of Oklahoma County a great deal of money. Things got
so bad, that the federal government pulled all federal inmates out of
the jail, which caused a significant loss of funds as it is very
profitable to house federal inmates. More recently he was criticized
for using inmate labor and deputies while on duty to build campaign
signs for his re-election, he apologized for the “mistake”. Then
within the past couple of weeks, he returned considerable campaign
contributions to Teddy Mitchell. Following the recent murder of his
wife, Mitchell was charged with running a multi-million dollar high
stakes gambling operation out of his home, which is alleged to have
gone on for many years. This one really bothers me as I find it hard
to believe, if the allegations are true, that Mitchell could have run
such an operation without local law enforcement and the County Sheriff
knowing about the operation and turning a blind eye to it. I have no
evidence here, but I find it difficult to believe that the D.A.s
office, perhaps current and past would be unaware of such an
operation. It is interesting that the charges were the result of
federal law enforcement rather than by the local boys. Kind of reminds
me of the County Commissioner scandal of many years ago, when it took
the feds to clean up that rats nest as the local boys were too close
to the situation to clean it up. Again, it is time for a change, elect
Darrell Sorrells for Sheriff.

[Midtowner]

deleted... I'll read what you just posted and get back to you after I get back from the courthouse.

[MamaMia]

Oh. Since you didnt attribute it to anyone and because you posts were saying I and me and because I figured you would be able to make your own choices and because you said "Thats cool Mid. These are just my picks. You have to vote your conscience. :)", I figured it was your own thoughts on how and why you were going to vote.



No need in waiting, you could've picked it up from the link I provided earlier....your house race voting instructions were there all along. :) HMMM...well, the info was on part two.
I should have looked. I didn't get the copy of part two until an hour ago. It was even in a different format. It is how I'm voting, as far as that portion is concerned. We have had two meetings over just this subject matter. Very interesting. I think you would enjoy the meetings. If you come, I'll buy you a steak. :)

[okie52]

Sorrels is an absolute moonbat.

I heard him on KTOK on a Sunday talk show going on about the U.N., national politics and various things which had nothing to do with the Sheriff's race. Sounds like a John Bircher. No thanks.

Noticed Wes Lane and Prater both campaigning for Whetsel. I've only seen Whetsel's ads on TV and they are frequent. I've never seen a Sorrel's ad so I don't know what Whetsel is so worried about...other than straight party voting.

Since he occupies a rather non political office I wonder why he hasn't changed parties...life would be a lot easier for him.

[MamaMia]

Noticed Wes Lane and Prater both campaigning for Whetsel. I've only seen Whetsel's ads on TV and they are frequent. I've never seen a Sorrel's ad so I don't know what Whetsel is so worried about...other than straight party voting.

Since he occupies a rather non political office I wonder why he hasn't changed parties...life would be a lot easier for him.You're probably right about that.

[Midtowner]

I told you in the pm that I would see if I could find the Sorrels info and send it along but I found it in my SENTS because I had deleted it after I made a ote to self and passed it along to a poster last night. I think its too long for a pm, so here ya go...let me know what you think. :)

OKLAHOMA COUNTY SHERIFF - DARRELL SORRELLS - Mr. Sorrells is
retired from the Sheriff’s office where he served in many capacities.
He is currently a contract deputy for the U.S. Marshall’s office.
While a deputy sheriff, without the help of Sheriff Whetsel, he was
able to institute a limited Character First program for some of the
staff members. If elected he hopes to make that available for all
employees as well as for the inmates. If accomplished, that would
improve the performance and stability of the work force and could make
a real difference in the lives of inmates, which in turn will help to
keep down the return rate. Darrell understands the importance of the
Sheriff being willing to stand up against unconstitutional edicts
being handed down from the Federal government. He is a man of high
moral character, integrity and will make an excellent sheriff if
elected. He is not in favor of spending hundreds of millions of
taxpayer dollars to build a new jail. He believes the current jail can
be brought up to acceptable standards for around $40 million. On the
other hand, current sheriff John Whetsel ran against former sheriff
J.D. Sharp 16 years ago with pledge to solve the problems at the jail.
After 16 years the problems still aren’t solved. A couple of years ago
the feds came in with an ultimatum to fix the problems or they have
threatened to take over the operations of the jail. Craig Dawkins,
served on the Oklahoma County Jail Task Force before it was disbanded.
He read every word in the federal report and has indicated most of the
problems with the jail were a result of miss-management. If one has a
long enough memory, Whetsel has a long history of questionable issues,
at least for conservatives. Several years ago he came to an OCPAC
meeting as a visitor at the invitation of one of our members. During
the conversations he made it known that he was not in favor of the pro-
life positions. In 1994-95, John Whetsel served as the President of
the International Chiefs of Police, a very liberal organization.
During that time he worked very hard for passage of the Brady Bill, a
real assault on 2nd Amendment rights, though he claimed otherwise. He
was even recognized by then President Bill Clinton in public at their
annual banquet for his efforts to get the measure passed. At the same
time this liberal organization was strategizing on how to prevent the
states from passing concealed carry laws. He has continued to maintain
his membership in that liberal organization, at least through 2010.
About 9 years ago, he shocked then mayor Kirk Humphries and many
others when he was successful in gaining enough signatures to call for
a county wide election to increase sales taxes in Oklahoma county. I
believe it was to be 3/8s of a cent with all of it going to his
department. The powers to be organized an effort and the measure went
down in flames. There have been many wrongful death lawsuits won by
the families of inmates killed or dying while in the jail. This has
cost the citizens of Oklahoma County a great deal of money. Things got
so bad, that the federal government pulled all federal inmates out of
the jail, which caused a significant loss of funds as it is very
profitable to house federal inmates. More recently he was criticized
for using inmate labor and deputies while on duty to build campaign
signs for his re-election, he apologized for the “mistake”. Then
within the past couple of weeks, he returned considerable campaign
contributions to Teddy Mitchell. Following the recent murder of his
wife, Mitchell was charged with running a multi-million dollar high
stakes gambling operation out of his home, which is alleged to have
gone on for many years. This one really bothers me as I find it hard
to believe, if the allegations are true, that Mitchell could have run
such an operation without local law enforcement and the County Sheriff
knowing about the operation and turning a blind eye to it. I have no
evidence here, but I find it difficult to believe that the D.A.s
office, perhaps current and past would be unaware of such an
operation. It is interesting that the charges were the result of
federal law enforcement rather than by the local boys. Kind of reminds
me of the County Commissioner scandal of many years ago, when it took
the feds to clean up that rats nest as the local boys were too close
to the situation to clean it up. Again, it is time for a change, elect
Darrell Sorrells for Sheriff.

Tell Charlie to learn to use paragraphs. I also can't stand these sorts of releases. It's just a data dump of half truths and outright lies. I'll pick a few.

1) Character First: This is a squirrelly institution, apparently a not-for-profit, but it looks a lot like a for-profit to me. It merged this year with another company. I wonder what the staff salaries are and I wonder how much they donated to Sorrels' campaign.

2) Darrell understands the importance of the Sheriff being willing to stand up against unconstitutional edicts being handed down from the Federal government.: So Sorrels thinks that our country wants each individual Sheriff to decide the constitutionality of any given act? Is he going to employ a lawyer for that? He sure as hell isn't one. CLEET doesn't train you in constitutional law, and from what I've read here, this guy doesn't have the first clue.

3) He believes the current jail can be brought up to acceptable standards for around $40 million.: Yet he offers no specific plan. Pie in the sky.

4) He read every word in the federal report and has indicated most of the problems with the jail were a result of miss-management.: Aside from miss-management not being a word, I'd like to see him offer specifics as to what all of the problems are and what "most" are. This would be pretty easy to do.

5) During the conversations he made it known that he was not in favor of the pro-life positions.: Totally irrelevant. This shows Sorrels is going after conservative voters and even willing to use irrelevant issues to make emotional appeals. Sleazy.

6) John Whetsel served as the President of the International Chiefs of Police, a very liberal organization.: "Very liberal"? I just visited their site. I went to the issues, the entire page was filled with editorials ranting against California Prop 19 (marijuana legalization) hardly "very liberal," just pro-law enforcement. Law enforcement is consistently against the Brady Bill because law enforcement types don't want to get shot.

7) About 9 years ago, he shocked then mayor Kirk Humphries and many others when he was successful in gaining enough signatures to call for a county wide election to increase sales taxes in Oklahoma county. I believe it was to be 3/8s of a cent with all of it going to his department.: And didn't Sorrels and his Fairview group ally with these same law enforcement types who were still angry over their sales tax loss when they tried to shoot down MAPS III for revenge?

Don't get me wrong, Whetsel leaves a lot to be desired. I just don't want to replace him with a lunatic. Bring some moderate Republican to the table who just wants to be the sheriff absent the ancillary silly stuff and he's got my vote.

[cleller]

I don't live in OK county, but Whetsel seems OK. He's a publicity hound and politics gamer, but he seems to have gotten the Okla County sheriff's office into a bigger role these days. I see his guys interdicting ($$) all over the interstates. Doesn't seem to be crooked, what more can you ask for?
Never talked to any deputies, that's where you'd get the real verdict on whether he's a stand up guy. Any other gripes on him?

I met him at the Oklahoma law enforcement hall of fame wingding last year. Seemed intelligent, he definitely makes the rounds.

[MamaMia]

Tell Charlie to learn to use paragraphs. I also can't stand these sorts of releases. It's just a data dump of half truths and outright lies. I'll pick a few.

1) Character First: This is a squirrelly institution, apparently a not-for-profit, but it looks a lot like a for-profit to me. It merged this year with another company. I wonder what the staff salaries are and I wonder how much they donated to Sorrels' campaign.

2) Darrell understands the importance of the Sheriff being willing to stand up against unconstitutional edicts being handed down from the Federal government.: So Sorrels thinks that our country wants each individual Sheriff to decide the constitutionality of any given act? Is he going to employ a lawyer for that? He sure as hell isn't one. CLEET doesn't train you in constitutional law, and from what I've read here, this guy doesn't have the first clue.

3) He believes the current jail can be brought up to acceptable standards for around $40 million.: Yet he offers no specific plan. Pie in the sky.

4) He read every word in the federal report and has indicated most of the problems with the jail were a result of miss-management.: Aside from miss-management not being a word, I'd like to see him offer specifics as to what all of the problems are and what "most" are. This would be pretty easy to do.

5) During the conversations he made it known that he was not in favor of the pro-life positions.: Totally irrelevant. This shows Sorrels is going after conservative voters and even willing to use irrelevant issues to make emotional appeals. Sleazy.

6) John Whetsel served as the President of the International Chiefs of Police, a very liberal organization.: "Very liberal"? I just visited their site. I went to the issues, the entire page was filled with editorials ranting against California Prop 19 (marijuana legalization) hardly "very liberal," just pro-law enforcement. Law enforcement is consistently against the Brady Bill because law enforcement types don't want to get shot.

7) About 9 years ago, he shocked then mayor Kirk Humphries and many others when he was successful in gaining enough signatures to call for a county wide election to increase sales taxes in Oklahoma county. I believe it was to be 3/8s of a cent with all of it going to his department.: And didn't Sorrels and his Fairview group ally with these same law enforcement types who were still angry over their sales tax loss when they tried to shoot down MAPS III for revenge?

Don't get me wrong, Whetsel leaves a lot to be desired. I just don't want to replace him with a lunatic. Bring some moderate Republican to the table who just wants to be the sheriff absent the ancillary silly stuff and he's got my vote.
Sorry. I hate that too. I'll have Carolyn break the paragraphs up for me next time I post any news letters. She does that when she sends them. :D

One thing though I do disagree with. He is going to vote for that one judge and like I said yesterday, I'm not. I'm voting out the incumbents judges; all of them. There was one judge who I actually endorsed, and if given the chance, I would have voted for her my whole life, but for the reasons I stated yesterday...if I don't know them personally, I vote No every single time. Its not really a party thing so, how do you feel about that?

Speaking of party thing. I do agree with his take on needing more conservatives and not making party an issue when voting.

[Midtowner]

Sorry. I hate that too. I'll have Carolyn break the paragraphs up for me next time I post any news letters. She does that when she sends them. :D

Much appreciated. With those margins, it makes a tough read.


One thing though I do disagree with. He is going to vote for that one judge and like I said yesterday, I'm not. I'm voting out the incumbents judges; all of them. There was one judge who I actually endorsed, and if given the chance, I would have voted for her my whole life, but for the reasons I stated yesterday...if I don't know them personally, I vote No every single time. Its not really a party thing so, how do you feel about that?

It's your prerogative to do that of course, but if you read the actual opinions out of our Supreme Court (I read every single one of them and do a significant enough amount of appellate work to have my feel for everyone. As a conservative, I think you'd probably really like Justices Winchester (not up this year) and Taylor. Taylor particularly, every single time there's an ethics complaint, his vote is automatic--disbar. As for being pro-business or not, it's very hard to understand how those things are scored. From what I can tell, the Chamber's methodology is not very reliable. Our Court really does a good job at calling balls and strikes and sticking to the common law, which is our constitutional heritage. Sometimes, common law rules work out for the injured parties, e.g., ambiguities in insurance contracts are always resolved against the insurance company (since they wrote them and included those ambiguities, that's fair, right?) or the other direction, e.g., statutes of limitations are constitutional and so are damages caps. The Oklahoma Supreme Court is anonymous and politically non-partisan. I think that's exactly what you want in your judiciary. Fairness for everyone--not just for businesses. Before okie52 chimes in, I think that if the legislature went to a loser-pays system that the Supreme Court would uphold it so long as it didn't unreasonably bar access of the courts to the little guy (access to the courts is a constitutional right in Oklahoma).

I don't really agree with voting 'no' just 'cuz. If you don't know what you're voting about, don't cast a vote either way, but again, vote however you want. That's your right.

[MamaMia]

Much appreciated. With those margins, it makes a tough read.





I don't really agree with voting 'no' just 'cuz. If you don't know what you're voting about, don't cast a vote either way, but again, vote however you want. That's your right. You have me all confused about the sheriff now. Gee thanks. :D

A very wise person, and a judge himself, Harold Wicher, told me that if you don't know the judges personally, then its not going to hurt to keep them rotated because becoming a 'favor doing' judge comes easier the longer you are in term, the longer you serve. Newer judges aren't as apt to be bias or have agendas. I'm all for term limits for any position.

Well, I have my little conservative guide and put on my comfortable red, white and blue jogger outfit and am just waiting for my hubby to take me to vote. It will be the highlight of my week. I wouldn't miss it.

I feel better now. I had a bubble bath. I'm not as weak or tired as I was earlier today. I hope they still have some "I Voted" stickers left. :D

[Midtowner]

You have me all confused about the sheriff now. Gee thanks. :D

Having to deal with courthouse security and jail visits as much as I do, sometimes, it's just the devil you know... I just want to avoid having a sheriff like the one in Maricopa County. Just do your damn job, be a good administrator and a good steward of the public's treasure.


A very wise person, and a judge himself, Harold Wicher, told me that if you don't know the judges personally, then its not going to hurt to keep them rotated because becoming a 'favor doing' judge comes easier the longer you are in term, the longer you serve. Newer judges aren't as apt to be bias or have agendas. I'm all for term limits for any position.

It's not really the same with appellate judges. The one I do have a personal relationship with recuses from my cases and every single case of any lawyer she knows personally. Same for the other justices, so there's no favor-giving or anything like that unless there's out and out corruption, and the justice I do know has a great deal of integrity, is a civic leader, faithfully attends church, etc. Appellate work is a little different. You almost never get face time with the justices. You basically write a scholarly argument (a brief) on the subject, citing to the trial record and to the law and submit that. Oral arguments don't happen often at all. Usually, within six months or so (as much as 2 years in my experience) you'll get a decision back. The Justices confer among themselves, read your briefs, discuss what their opinions are, etc. It's a very private process they go through with deliberation. They are not allowed to talk about any cases before them or which might come before them.


Well, I have my little conservative guide and put on my comfortable red, white and blue jogger outfit and am just waiting for my hubby to take me to vote. It will be the highlight of my week. I wouldn't miss it.

I feel better now. I'm not as weak or tired as I was earlier today. I hope they still have some "I Voted" stickers left. :D

Be safe. They had plenty of stickers this morning.

[StoopTroup]

Clones. There is a reason they don't allow human cloning and if they do....I'm against them voting like someone tells them to.

I've listened to Mama's opinions on this board for so long that after the first post it was pretty obvious she is a Mocking Bird with a Combination Fax, Copy and scanner.

[MamaMia]

Clones. There is a reason they don't allow human cloning and if they do....I'm against them voting like someone tells them to.

I've listened to Mama's opinions on this board for so long that after the first post it was pretty obvious she is a Mocking Bird with a Combination Fax, Copy and scanner. You like them; all my articles, reports and letters, or you wouldn't read them all the time; if for no other reason than to just argue and disagree. I'm set in my ways, so I guess you will just have to suffer along. :D

[StoopTroup]

You like them, or you wouldn't read them all the time. I'm set in my ways, so you will just have to suffer along. :D

Not really. Some of them about Football are OK. You are a great cheerleader. They teach you the cheers and you do them.

[MamaMia]

Not really. Some of them about Football are OK. You are a great cheerleader. They teach you the cheers and you do them.Okay. Just for you, I'll post more football ones then. There ya go. :D

[SanJoaquinSooner]

We have a tax increase proposition here in California. Gov Brown warns if it doesn't pass, UC tuition will increase approx 20%.

That would kick me in the pocketbook since my son started college this year. But honestly I don't know why tax payers should subsidize college goers.

[olevetonahill]

Okay. Just for you, I'll post more football ones then. There ya go. :D

Mom, If its any Consolation I'd rather read 20 of yer post as ignore 1 of STs

[MamaMia]

Mom, If its any Consolation I'd rather read 20 of yer post as ignore 1 of STs HMMM...Thats probably because unless I'm posting an article, a report or one of my emails, it would take me 20 posts to say as much as ST does in one post. :)

[Mjcpr]

I bet Charlie and Carolyn are disappointed.