Sounds like some former players don't like the teams direction

[Crimsontothecore]

Listening to the Tulsa animal yesterday, Steve Davis said that if OU continues on this path, we will be a perennial 9-10 win team that will lose to more physical teams and we will never play for national titles. Apparently he watched the ND game with Jimbo Elrod, Clendon thomas and some other alum, and they don't like what they see in the program. Part of me says these guys are old school from the wishbone days and will never approve of a finesse offense but another part of me thinks they may have some wisdom.

[EatLeadCommie]

We've had a soft offensive line since Patton came on board. The soft defensive line is more a product of personnel this year than coaching.

[SoonerorLater]

Listening to the Tulsa animal yesterday, Steve Davis said that if OU continues on this path, we will be a perennial 9-10 win team that will lose to more physical teams and we will never play for national titles. Apparently he watched the ND game with Jimbo Elrod, Clendon thomas and some other alum, and they don't like what they see in the program. Part of me says these guys are old school from the wishbone days and will never approve of a finesse offense but another part of me thinks they may have some wisdom.

I would say go back and look at the the line play of the 1970's OU Teams and you will see what they are talking about.

[OkieThunderLion]

Listening to the Tulsa animal yesterday, Steve Davis said that if OU continues on this path, we will be a perennial 9-10 win team that will lose to more physical teams and we will never play for national titles. Apparently he watched the ND game with Jimbo Elrod, Clendon thomas and some other alum, and they don't like what they see in the program. Part of me says these guys are old school from the wishbone days and will never approve of a finesse offense but another part of me thinks they may have some wisdom.

Seems like a bit of an overreaction to the most recent games, which is normal.

Last year, OU lost to finesse teams; Tech, Baylor, OSU. And they beat physical teams like K-State and FSU.

[OUmillenium]

We shore up our defense and recruit more stud D lineman and things will get a lot better. Our D made a lot of nice plays the other night but ND played lights out. A scrambling athletic qb who is throwing accurately is almost impossible to contain.

Our O line and D line get better, we take a big step forward back to the top 5. We will always have QB, receivers, running backs who can get the job done.

[Breadburner]

Hire Pat Hill as O-line coach.....

[SOONERMANN13]

i was going to ask something along these lines (talking about the title of the thread). on twitter you see some of the comments from players within say, the past 5 years, and they are tweeting to the current players about "it's not you, it's over your head (talking about coaches), etc and them saying "this isn't OU football", etc. i'm starting to wonder if the whole deal last year was really worse than what we all thought, if it is coaches, etc. Most teams would clamor for a 9-10 win season every season but we aren't most teams and i believe the past players are correct in the fact that we want to contend year in and year out for a mnc. and like a few have said, personnel currently on the d-line is a factor that will get corrected i believe and we'll be better and back in line. i don't, however, believe the ceiling is caving in as some would lead to believe.

[badger]

Back in their days, 9-10 wins was an undefeated season! And field was uphill both ways in the snow! :P

[tycat947]

i was going to ask something along these lines (talking about the title of the thread). on twitter you see some of the comments from players within say, the past 5 years, and they are tweeting to the current players about "it's not you, it's over your head (talking about coaches), etc and them saying "this isn't OU football", etc. i'm starting to wonder if the whole deal last year was really worse than what we all thought, if it is coaches, etc. Most teams would clamor for a 9-10 win season every season but we aren't most teams and i believe the past players are correct in the fact that we want to contend year in and year out for a mnc. and like a few have said, personnel currently on the d-line is a factor that will get corrected i believe and we'll be better and back in line. i don't, however, believe the ceiling is caving in as some would lead to believe.

One of the negatives of Twitter! I don't know if these former players' coaches would have been excited to have them receive outside comments continually from former players that were contrary to what coaches were trying to teach. There's a fine line here!

[PrideMom]

I think having Mike Stoops back to recruit will make a difference.

[goingoneight]

Funny how those guys were all on board for a title run after TT, UT and KU. They're over-reacting just like the fans are. No amount of coaching can make OU's current personnel play at the level Alabama's playing at (which is what everyone is hinting with this physicality talk).
Bottom line is as always execution, protecting the football and winning the battle of the big uglies. We failed in all three areas against KSU and ND. That's why people keep nagging about one play here or there. One play here or there didn't change the outcome of OU/Texas. Why? Because OU was better than UT and played like it. You can't honestly put your money on 22 yards rushing and three turnovers versus over 220 and no turnovers unless you play the game of the century defensively. In which case, you don't give up over 220 yards rushing and fail to force a turnover.
KSU and ND were better than OU this year... period. They were in 1999, too. Things change each year. We could drop a bomb on both of them next year and lose to Texas. Or not... but both of these teams are better than OU and it showed. I think everyone got a little high off of the Tech, Texas and KU curb-stompings and forgot that a team's identity doesn't just change overnight. We're not very consistent this year.

[Tear Down This Wall]

We shore up our defense and recruit more stud D lineman and things will get a lot better. Our D made a lot of nice plays the other night but ND played lights out. A scrambling athletic qb who is throwing accurately is almost impossible to contain.

Our O line and D line get better, we take a big step forward back to the top 5. We will always have QB, receivers, running backs who can get the job done.

In other words, we do the opposite of Alabama, which recruits from the inside out - offensive and defensive Linemen first as a recruiting priority, then skill players.

I'd rather we recruit like Alabama, and take our chances with unknown and 3-star skill players...like we did at the beginning of Stoops' tenure.

It doesn't matter how many stars a running back has if there's no blocking up front. As The King used to say when describing the importance of the offensive line, "All running backs look the same on their back."

[FriscoTXsooner]

I agree with Mike Stoops back and in the recruiting circle, we will go out and get some of the stud players we are used to seeing. I think he's done a good job with the talent that he has, but there are holes. Our linebacker play hasn't been up to what we've seen in the past, our defense needs to improve along with the offensive line. Speaking of offense, with the use of a power QB next year, our line needs to be a power line, I think the makeup of our O line will change. This year so far has shown the areas we need to improve in. We aren't a bad team or a great team, but we can become a great team and I think quickly. I say all this with one caveat, our offensive play calling needs to improve, I like Josh but I don't think he's calling good games, or adjusting to what we are seeing. Don't beat me up for this comment, it's just an observation.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

OU's offensive line issues has more to do with coaching than talent. Joe Wickline of Oklahoma St. is proof of this.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I agree with Mike Stoops back and in the recruiting circle, we will go out and get some of the stud players we are used to seeing. I think he's done a good job with the talent that he has, but there are holes. Our linebacker play hasn't been up to what we've seen in the past, our defense needs to improve along with the offensive line. Speaking of offense, with the use of a power QB next year, our line needs to be a power line, I think the makeup of our O line will change. This year so far has shown the areas we need to improve in. We aren't a bad team or a great team, but we can become a great team and I think quickly. I say all this with one caveat, our offensive play calling needs to improve, I like Josh but I don't think he's calling good games, or adjusting to what we are seeing. Don't beat me up for this comment, it's just an observation.

I think the biggest problem with the linebackers is they are getting blown up by offensive linemen that should never be in that position to do so in the first place. There is an absolute failure up front that negates any potential from the linebackers. The lack of a front four leads to a lack of a front seven, which is all the more amazing how OU's secondary has done this season given the circumstance.

[yermom]

how much is talent and how much is depth? are some of these guys playing because of attrition and not doing as well because of not having enough time to develop?

[soonerboy_odanorth]

We will always have QB, receivers, running backs who can get the job done.


Agree... but I would take it one step further in that a great offensive line and a great defensive line can make average skill position players look good, and good skill position players look great.

I hope they are taking a second look at the type of players they are getting there. Or at least, re-doubling their efforts.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Listening to the Tulsa animal yesterday, Steve Davis said that if OU continues on this path, we will be a perennial 9-10 win team that will lose to more physical teams and we will never play for national titles. Apparently he watched the ND game with Jimbo Elrod, Clendon thomas and some other alum, and they don't like what they see in the program. Part of me says these guys are old school from the wishbone days and will never approve of a finesse offense but another part of me thinks they may have some wisdom.

I am inclined to take the opinions of those who have actually played college football and brought home National Championships more serious than those who haven't. Who better should know?

We really haven't accomplished squid in big games since 2003 and everybody knows it. Close doesn't count.

I am well aware of the parity in college football today. It' ain't the 50's or the 70's any more. But still our coaching isn't getting it done. That's my two cents worth, flame away.

[BoulderSooner79]

...
KSU and ND were better than OU this year... period...


I have to disagree. We are very even with KSU and should have won that game. I'd say if we play 10 times the record would be 5-5 with the home team winning most the games. We let that one slip away.

ND is a tougher problem given that we could not run at all. But we still could have won the game if we made the big plays. We did have an advantage in that they couldn't cover our WRs in the mid range passing game, but we didn't exploit that as well as we could have. We should have been able to get to the ND 30 on a consistent basis and been in FG range 4-5 times. It's no fun have to kick FGs, but they could have been enough to win and ND is the best in the country at forcing FG attempts in the redzone. Have to take what is available.

I've mentioned the line play as much as anyone, but we were still good enough to win if paired with excellent execution. The O-line couldn't make running lanes, but pass protection was good. The D-line couldn't pressure their QB, but run defense was good enough to win. But the mistakes killed us. That 1 long run was good blocking that created a clean lane through the line and it should have been a nice 10-12 yard gain ND. But without a LB or safety even in the camera view, it turned into a 65 yard TD. That shouldn't have happened. The 50 yard pass play after we tied the game also didn't have a safety in the picture, but i think that was more an example of good play calling on their part. In summary, yes ND was better given the style matchups, but not as far off as many of the posts imply.

I do like the new direction of the program (Mike in, Martinez out, mal-content players out). I hope to see more of the positive impact in recruiting and what we field next year.

[Widescreen]

I am inclined to take the opinions of those who have actually played college football and brought home National Championships more serious than those who haven't. Who better should know?



I would hope our coaches know better.

[cleller]

Listening to the Tulsa animal yesterday, Steve Davis said that if OU continues on this path, we will be a perennial 9-10 win team that will lose to more physical teams and we will never play for national titles. Apparently he watched the ND game with Jimbo Elrod, Clendon thomas and some other alum, and they don't like what they see in the program. Part of me says these guys are old school from the wishbone days and will never approve of a finesse offense but another part of me thinks they may have some wisdom.

Those names mentioned carry some weight with me. I would be slow to jump out and say they don't know any more than the average message boarder lurker.

[SoonerAtKU]

They carry weight with all of us because we're fans. Those guys are fans now, too. The game is absolutely not the same as it was when they played. OU adjusted this year to better match the defense to the Big XII and the spread attacks. You've got Snyder up there who's followed the principle of matching your defense to your opponents and make your offense completely different. KSU is the power running attack Texas wanted to have, but hasn't.

OU built a defense for finesse because they got burned by it in prior years. It just so happens that the two best teams they will face this year are not spread teams and so had the answer for that defense.

[champions77]

We've had a soft offensive line since Patton came on board. The soft defensive line is more a product of personnel this year than coaching.

+1. Patton came on board because he was a buddy of Kevin Wilson when they coached together at Northwestern.

Bob has taken the "easy road" on way too many hires. Both hires, Patton and then his old college buddy Kittle, who was coaching at a high school in Iowa, were not predicated on either one being the best available hires possible.

Fire both of them and go hire Joe Wickline from osu. He seems to not have a problem coaching his lineman to both PASS block and RUN block.

While Bob is in the firing mood, send Josh H. packing. OU is not a place for "on the job training". Let him go earn his way somewhere else, prove himself and then come back in ten years or so. I get it that he is a Sooner "legacy", but that doesn't necessarily mean that is is now, or will be a great offensive coordinator later on. Jay Norvell has a lot more experience, and should have been given the job as play caller.

[OkieThunderLion]

OU built a defense for finesse because they got burned by it in prior years. It just so happens that the two best teams they will face this year are not spread teams and so had the answer for that defense.

I agree.

[OkieThunderLion]

I have to disagree. We are very even with KSU and should have won that game. I'd say if we play 10 times the record would be 5-5 with the home team winning most the games. We let that one slip away.


I think OU beats KSU 8 times out of 10.

[zeke]

Funny how those guys were all on board for a title run after TT, UT and KU. They're over-reacting just like the fans are. No amount of coaching can make OU's current personnel play at the level Alabama's playing at (which is what everyone is hinting with this physicality talk).
Bottom line is as always execution, protecting the football and winning the battle of the big uglies. We failed in all three areas against KSU and ND. That's why people keep nagging about one play here or there. One play here or there didn't change the outcome of OU/Texas. Why? Because OU was better than UT and played like it. You can't honestly put your money on 22 yards rushing and three turnovers versus over 220 and no turnovers unless you play the game of the century defensively. In which case, you don't give up over 220 yards rushing and fail to force a turnover.
KSU and ND were better than OU this year... period. They were in 1999, too. Things change each year. We could drop a bomb on both of them next year and lose to Texas. Or not... but both of these teams are better than OU and it showed. I think everyone got a little high off of the Tech, Texas and KU curb-stompings and forgot that a team's identity doesn't just change overnight. We're not very consistent this year.

^this^

[OU_Sooners75]

OU's offensive line issues has more to do with coaching than talent. Joe Wickline of Oklahoma St. is proof of this.

Yep. And Wickline won't be leaving Stoolwater anytime soon. Hell Texass enticed him with a huge offer and he turned it down. Said his wife loves Stoolwater and so does he.

[8timechamps]

I am inclined to take the opinions of those who have actually played college football and brought home National Championships more serious than those who haven't. Who better should know?

We really haven't accomplished squid in big games since 2003 and everybody knows it. Close doesn't count.

I am well aware of the parity in college football today. It' ain't the 50's or the 70's any more. But still our coaching isn't getting it done. That's my two cents worth, flame away.

Um yeah, close does count. How many teams make the big game every year? Two. Being in that game says a hell of a lot about your team. I would rather have "been there" and lost, than not to have been there at all.

Now, this part isn't directed at you, just a generalized statement: Anyone that thought this team was going to win a national title this year just didn't pay attention. We weren't going to be there in the end. Too many injuries, inexperience to make a serious run. On top of that, we've lost two game to two of the best teams in the country (one of those games, KSU, we killed ourselves). I respect what those guys (mentioned in the OP) did while at OU, but good grief, football isn't anywhere near the same now. I respect that they have on opinion, I just happen think it carries as much weight as any other person that hasn't played in 40+ years.

[cleller]

I think OU beats KSU 8 times out of 10.

Once this year would be fine.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think OU beats KSU 8 times out of 10.

I'd like to agree, but I can't. No matter where or when we played KSU, they would still control the ball, control the clock and not make many mistakes. We would have to leverage our skill players like we did the first time, but make fewer mistakes. Maybe we beat them 6 of 10, but they would always be a difficult win.

[OUNASH]

I hear people talking about recruiting better players and I dont see that happening this year. We are currently ranked 34 by rivals for the 2013 class. Unless the coaching staff can put together a late run at this recruiting class I dont see the talent level improving anytime soon. As far as the old timers questioning our direction, I would have to agree. Granted football has changed over the last 20-40 years but I would think these guys no a little more about the game than the normal internet poster.
I think Stoops has become complacent and someone needs to light a fire under his behind. He needs to quit making excuses and get this program back on track. I dont want Stoops fired, however, letting go of a couple of coaches named Patton and Shipp would be a great start to fixing our recruiting and lack of performance issues with the Lines.

[MyT Oklahoma]

I would hope our coaches know better.

So would I but it doesn't appear to be so, huh?

[MyT Oklahoma]

There are some great posts above which is why I come here. To read what other fans are thinking. Thanks to all who take the time to post because it gives me food for thought.

Glad your all Sooners.

[goingoneight]

Only one I thought was laughable was the "champions" poster. "Fire Josh Heupel! OU is not a place to learn on the job!!!"

Bud, Barry and Bob disagree. Also, Norvell's offenses at NU and UCLA weren't something to write home about.

It's talent up front, people. All there is to it. Alabama and KSU have no better play callers and/or position coaches than we do. You can't make RJ Washington, Stacy McGee and Jamarkus McFarland into Ronnell Lewis, Gerald McCoy and Tommie Harris magically. Just like you can't add a few pounds onto a tight end and call him Phil Loadholt. We've gone up against two physical teams this year and lost to them. All the speed-on-speed teams have lost to OU for the same reason. You win the game in the trenches and it changes nearly everything from YPC, to yards allowed per rush to the timing of the passing game. Go back and watch the Sam Bradford 2008 offense and count how many times he hit the ground. Note the time in the pocket. Sam obviously was outstanding... but he had it good in 07 and 08. He still looked great against Florida... but for some odd reason way off from earlier games that year (note the LOS battle).

[King Crimson]

Only one I thought was laughable was the "champions" poster. "Fire Josh Heupel! OU is not a place to learn on the job!!!"

Bud, Barry and Bob disagree. Also, Norvell's offenses at NU and UCLA weren't something to write home about.

It's talent up front, people. All there is to it. Alabama and KSU have no better play callers and/or position coaches than we do. You can't make RJ Washington, Stacy McGee and Jamarkus McFarland into Ronnell Lewis, Gerald McCoy and Tommie Harris magically. Just like you can't add a few pounds onto a tight end and call him Phil Loadholt. We've gone up against two physical teams this year and lost to them. All the speed-on-speed teams have lost to OU for the same reason. You win the game in the trenches and it changes nearly everything from YPC, to yards allowed per rush to the timing of the passing game. Go back and watch the Sam Bradford 2008 offense and count how many times he hit the ground. Note the time in the pocket. Sam obviously was outstanding... but he had it good in 07 and 08. He still looked great against Florida... but for some odd reason way off from earlier games that year (note the LOS battle).

agree with this. Steve Davis is really bitching about the state of the program. Steve Davis lost to Kansas. i never thought in my life i would say a negative thing about steve davis.

[picasso]

Funny, but we talked to Steve the Friday before OU/Texas and he said we would kill them.

[Mjcpr]

Steve Davis lost to Kansas. i never thought in my life i would say a negative thing about steve davis.

I wouldn't say much, it was his only loss

[Johnny Utah]

Only one I thought was laughable was the "champions" poster. "Fire Josh Heupel! OU is not a place to learn on the job!!!"

Bud, Barry and Bob disagree. Also, Norvell's offenses at NU and UCLA weren't something to write home about.

It's talent up front, people. All there is to it. Alabama and KSU have no better play callers and/or position coaches than we do. You can't make RJ Washington, Stacy McGee and Jamarkus McFarland into Ronnell Lewis, Gerald McCoy and Tommie Harris magically. Just like you can't add a few pounds onto a tight end and call him Phil Loadholt. We've gone up against two physical teams this year and lost to them. All the speed-on-speed teams have lost to OU for the same reason. You win the game in the trenches and it changes nearly everything from YPC, to yards allowed per rush to the timing of the passing game. Go back and watch the Sam Bradford 2008 offense and count how many times he hit the ground. Note the time in the pocket. Sam obviously was outstanding... but he had it good in 07 and 08. He still looked great against Florida... but for some odd reason way off from earlier games that year (note the LOS battle).

I think you answered your own question ... OU lost the battle of the trenches and its receivers didn't battle the Florida DBs well enough for the ball.

[StoopTroup]

I think OU beats KSU 8 times out of 10.

With Klein out I have 10 of 10

[StoopTroup]

Um yeah, close does count. How many teams make the big game every year? Two. Being in that game says a hell of a lot about your team. I would rather have "been there" and lost, than not to have been there at all.

Now, this part isn't directed at you, just a generalized statement: Anyone that thought this team was going to win a national title this year just didn't pay attention. We weren't going to be there in the end. Too many injuries, inexperience to make a serious run. On top of that, we've lost two game to two of the best teams in the country (one of those games, KSU, we killed ourselves). I respect what those guys (mentioned in the OP) did while at OU, but good grief, football isn't anywhere near the same now. I respect that they have on opinion, I just happen think it carries as much weight as any other person that hasn't played in 40+ years.

The only reason I felt it even possible was that we played a very decent K-State close and even though we lost...after we came back and hammered Tech and Texas and then wiped our shoes on KU...I felt we could beat ND and possibly have one of those years where a one loss OU might just be able to grow into a Team like we had in 2000 that just kept improving and able to avoid injuries. At this point....we have lost our run game, taken some losses on the O-line when we couldn't afford any and we have developed a snap problem getting the ball into the hands of our QB that every Team we play plan to throw everything they have at him to avoid him having anytime to throw the ball.

I know Jimbo. He's a good guy and I am very happy that OU has been so kind to him as he's gotten older. Don't know Clendon Thomas but I haven't ever heard anyone say a bad thing about him and when he's mentioned during the game he always gets a nice applause. He played at OU before I was born and had a nice run in the Pros when I was a child.

The other Sooner Alums mentioned...I have nothing really to go on without knowing who they were. They were all guys that actually played the game but...have they watched as many games as most OU fans? Have they been going to games or watching them all for over 20 years? I guess it's possible some have. It's possible some have not. I just don't know why I would suddenly take their opinion over a Dean Blevins or Jake Trotter or really some of the folks who watch our games and break it all down like the Coaching Staff does every week.

It's an opinion. It has allowed some thought and even more opinion to develop but at the end of this thread....I still think we could winout even though we lost two huge games. I am concerned about who replaces Landry as it's been a long time since we had a legitimate opening at QB where even a new Recruit might have as much chance at starting at OU next year as anyone who is currently playing a backup role at QB right now.

We lose around 21 Seniors this year. I think the experts do have a point about what could happen but I then think about having 2 Stoops Brothers as our Coaches and the feeling of what will they bring to OU next year having so many players to replace? I'm sure there will even be a few that aren't Seniors that might not return which will make things even more interesting IMO.

I do think Bob has been very loyal to Landry and many others and hopefully that will be very attractive to recruits who listen to our Coaches during recruiting time this year. There is a lot of opportunity coming folks way next year and if the right ones pick OU we could just as easily be looking at another White, Bradford, AD, Murray, Gresham, Broyles or Jones or whoever your favorite Sooner might have been over the last 14 years.

[SoonerorLater]

I think these former players have a point. Sometimes you sit down and watch and it's such a stark contrast to what you remember. I have heard a lot of explanations why OU has been less dominant than in the past. I'll go with Switzer, Steve Davis and Pat Jones, the talent isn't as good. Certainly not on the front lines.

The question is why they are not as good. I agree with Pat Jones when he says the talent evaluation has had too many misses and the talent evaluators need to be evaluated themselves. A euphemism for we need some new assistants. This makes sense to me. Recruiting is just a hard, time consuming job for the coaches and they end up hitting a lot of dry holes for each success. After many years I think they try to cut some corners. They get burnt out like anybody else.

[BoulderSooner79]

I do find it interesting that Whaley, DD Williams, Brown and Saunders all transfer in and immediately outplay all of our players that were recruited and developed in the program. And Brown is the only 1 coming from a "big time" BCS conference. Sure these guys have filled out and proven themselves, but they were all developed by other coaches. Whaley and Williams developed by small school or CC coaches while many of our 4 star RB transfer out or don't pan out. Makes me question more of the development aspect than the recruiting.

[cleller]

Interesting observation.^^

[FaninAma]

OU's offense needs a dul threat QB and the coaches have to incorporate the dual threat into their offensive philosophy. Until they do defenses will sell out to stop the run and short pass.

[Curly Bill]

I do find it interesting that Whaley, DD Williams, Brown and Saunders all transfer in and immediately outplay all of our players that were recruited and developed in the program. And Brown is the only 1 coming from a "big time" BCS conference. Sure these guys have filled out and proven themselves, but they were all developed by other coaches. Whaley and Williams developed by small school or CC coaches while many of our 4 star RB transfer out or don't pan out. Makes me question more of the development aspect than the recruiting.

Hadn't thought of this. It's an interesting point.

[Curly Bill]

OU's offense needs a dul threat QB and the coaches have to incorporate the dual threat into their offensive philosophy. Until they do defenses will sell out to stop the run and short pass.

I like this point as well.

[King Crimson]

some of you may remember that when Stoops was hired his first choice for OC was Kevin Reynolds...the Syracuse OC who coached Donavan McNabb. Reynolds took a job with Bob Davie at ND. Jarrious Jackson. Stoops #2 choice was Mike LeaCh who learned the spread thing from Hal Mumme at Kentucky.

always an interesting thing to me. i don't know what Reynolds these days and after some pretty serious success at Tech....wazzou sort of sucks....a garden of forking paths...

and obviously, we win the national championship with josh heupel calling mike's play at the LOS.

[PLaw]

OU's offense needs a dul threat QB and the coaches have to incorporate the dual threat into their offensive philosophy. Until they do defenses will sell out to stop the run and short pass.

agree and disagree.

At the end of the day, your passing game needs to mesh with the running game. Look at 2000, we had a spread passing game with a spread rushing attack, wide O-line splits. It seems this year, we have RB's built for a power, pro-style attack, but our passing game is still largely spread based. Our O-line splits are tighter, but we rarely put the QB under center. Maybe it's time for Josh and Jay to simplify the attack and get the passing game in sync with the running game.

Boomer

[aero]

Recruiting seems like predicting the economic forecast. Hindsights 20/20. If the economists could accurately predict the future swings in the economy, we'd never have a slump. Same with recruiting. It's a guess. Some pan out, some don't. Some underachieve, some over. We've had some great O linemen and great D linemen. We seem to hit a slump with injuries also playing a part. I think MS will get the D back on track. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the offense.

[FaninAma]

agree and disagree.

At the end of the day, your passing game needs to mesh with the running game. Look at 2000, we had a spread passing game with a spread rushing attack, wide O-line splits. It seems this year, we have RB's built for a power, pro-style attack, but our passing game is still largely spread based. Our O-line splits are tighter, but we rarely put the QB under center. Maybe it's time for Josh and Jay to simplify the attack and get the passing game in sync with the running game.

Boomer

In 2000 spread offenses weren't the norm so defenses were just learning how to defend this type offense. Now the pendulum has swung back to favoring the more physical teams and defenses are selling out to shut down the run and control the short passing game. unless you have a QB who can run and create plays you will always have problems with ahtletic teams with fast LBs and good DBs. A dual threat QB puts a lot of extra pressure on the defense. He is the one player that can't be accounted for in most defensive schemes.

[cjames317]

... Maybe it's time for Josh and Jay to simplify the attack and get the passing game in sync with the running game....

I sense that's the 2013 plan. I believe OUr coaches' loyalty to Landry (which he earned) is the primary reason for this year's offensive scheme. Landry can't run, so that's not an option (pun intended). We don't have an extraordinary RB like Q, AD or DeMarco, so talented and/or sound defensive players can shut down OUr running game, keep two guys deep and force Landry to earn his way down the field every time. Neither Landry nor Heupel is patient or consistent enough to do that every time. Defenses don't need to hope for mistake(s) to happen. They just wait. So must we.

[StoopTroup]

I sense that's the 2013 plan. I believe OUr coaches' loyalty to Landry (which he earned) is the primary reason for this year's offensive scheme. Landry can't run, so that's not an option (pun intended). We don't have an extraordinary RB like Q, AD or DeMarco, so talented and/or sound defensive players can shut down OUr running game, keep two guys deep and force Landry to earn his way down the field every time. Neither Landry nor Heupel is patient or consistent enough to do that every time. Defenses don't need to hope for mistake(s) to happen. They just wait. So must we.

I tend to agree with some of this assessment but the Coaches are designing the Game Plans we are seeing. They have always played who they thought was the best. This stuff about Loyalty is bunk. He's a great passer. We again see lots of drops and stalled drives. Against ISU, Clay rushes for 159 yards. That really takes the heat off when your WR drops a pass on first or 2nd down and your RB picks up 7-9 yards or even a first down when he touches the ball. It's one of our better performances this year with our run game. Yeah the RRSO was awesome but we just walked all over them. I'm talking about Teams that play us tough and play 4 quarters. We haven't had a QB behind center without getting them killed for a very long time. This loyalty might seem real to many Fans because we have been able to keep him somewhat healthy. I suspect he can't run like he was the first two games because he's possibly injured. Sam, Jason and even Nate Hybl all took huge hits playing QB here. Sam got his start because Bomar was an idiot. Landry got his because of injury and White and Hybl traded back and forth there for awhile. Paul Thompson, Jason White, Nate Hybl, Sam Bradford, Josh Heupel and LJ all have had what it takes to be our Starter. Some have received a lot of awards and others only our cheers and in some cases jeers. Josh looked wore out that last game before we took out K-State for the Big XII Championship. There were times I wondered if Jason or Nate were even going to get up after some of the hits they took. Sam didn't twice. I think Landry looked pretty wore out after the ISU game. I suspect they have been helping him keep it going but it's why I like the guy. He's a Sooner QB and our Starter. He's amassed some pretty amazing Stats as our QB.

[engineer24]

They carry weight with all of us because we're fans. Those guys are fans now, too. The game is absolutely not the same as it was when they played. OU adjusted this year to better match the defense to the Big XII and the spread attacks. You've got Snyder up there who's followed the principle of matching your defense to your opponents and make your offense completely different. KSU is the power running attack Texas wanted to have, but hasn't.

OU built a defense for finesse because they got burned by it in prior years. It just so happens that the two best teams they will face this year are not spread teams and so had the answer for that defense.

I dont agree. The SEC championship teams dont have any problem shutting down both power running games AND spread offenses like OU and Oregon in bowl games. A great defense is a great defense, period. We do NOT have to choose between a D that stops spread but sucks against power offenses.

[bluedogok]

Having 6 weeks to prepare to defend a spread helps greatly, even Urban Meyer said that they would have had a hard time preparing to defend OU and Bradford if they had only a week to prepare and implement a defense. The long layoff between the end of the season and the bowl game helps the defensive side of the ball more than the offense.

[Johnny Utah]

I dont agree. The SEC championship teams dont have any problem shutting down both power running games AND spread offenses like OU and Oregon in bowl games. A great defense is a great defense, period. We do NOT have to choose between a D that stops spread but sucks against power offenses.

I couldn't agree more ... when was the last time a finesse offense beat a really good defense in a big OOC or bowl game ???

[engineer24]

When a good offense comes up against a good defense, the defense is going to win the matchups most of the time. Thats even more true in bowl games, where offenses tend to be rusty without repetition/practice for such a long time.

Suppse you have the following 2 teams:

Team A: offense rank #1, defense rank #100
Team B: offense rank #100, defense rank #1

Team B is going to beat Team A heads up at least 75% of the time. Furthermore, Team B will have a better record against common opponents than Team A will.

To build a championship level team, you need defense FIRST and then build offense around it.

[Johnny Utah]

To build a championship level team, you need defense FIRST and then build offense around it.

Yes ... an offense that compliments the defense, by being able to sustain drives, control clock, etc.

[BoulderSooner79]

To build a championship level team, you need defense FIRST and then build offense around it.


Motherhood and apple pie, but I don't see that it means anything in practice. Coaches build the best team they believe they can at any given time. To have a great defense, you have to have a great defensive coach and the ability to recruit great defensive players. And by doing that, the coach is not restricting his offensive coach from doing the same. So there is no "first" - everything happens all the time.

Now the NFL is a different story where a team can use all their high draft choices and most their salary cap on 1 side of the ball. In college, there is no such tradeoff.