Fox News: Romney's Auto Bailout Ad Tells Four Lies in 30 Seconds

[Midtowner]

REB_Q7N8vSw


1. “Mitt Romney has a plan to help the auto industry.” No specific plan is referenced in the ad, and Romney’s campaign web site does not include a plan to “help the auto industry.” In 2008, Romney wrote a New York Times editorial titled, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” and he re-upped his call against the auto rescue during the Republican primaries this year.

2. “[Romney] is supported by Lee Iaccoca and the Detroit News.” Chrysler Chairman Lee Iaccoca has indeed endorsed Romney. The Detroit News, a self-described “conservative newspaper,” endorsed him last week. But in that endorsement, the paper slammed Romney’s “wrong-headedness on the auto bailout.”

3. “Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy.” Obama did take both companies into a managed bankruptcy, the path Romney says was originally his idea. Romney, however, supported private sector financing of the bankruptcy, a plan that was “pure fantasy” at the time since no private lenders could lend to the companies in the middle of the financial crisis. Without federal intervention, the companies would have almost assuredly collapsed, costing 1.3 million jobs, according to industry estimates.

4. “[Obama] sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China.” This week, Romney claimed he read a news story that said Chrysler was planning to “moving all production to China.” The Bloomberg News piece he referenced, though, made it clear that Fiat, the Italian company that now owns Chrysler, was opening new factories in China to make Jeeps for Chinese consumers. No American plants will be closed, and no American jobs will be lost. The ad’s claim may not be as false as Romney’s previous statement, but it is certainly misleading.

http://radio.foxnews.com/2012/10/28/romneys-auto-bailout-ad-tells-four-lies-in-30-seconds/#.UI3aJm_A_Kc

[rock on sooner]

So what's new? Not one f****** thing!

[Midtowner]

So what's new? Not one f****** thing!

This campaign is really just about the most cynical political campaign I've ever seen. They will lie straight to your face and when the media asks questions? Silence. So while the Right is out there trying to manufacture some sort of Libyan conspiracy over the deaths of four Americans, why not ask the question over and over... if Obama is so bad, what the hell is Romney anyway? He's shown us absolutely nothing except that when he was governor, he governed far to the Left of where Obama is governing from now. As a candidate, in the primary, he was just ultra ultra conservative, Tea Party even. Just as soon as that was in the bag, Romney turned on a dime, gave us a whole new him, simply wouldn't discuss prior stances, and that's just no big *** deal.

How do you take someone seriously who is going to vote in a race where facts are irrelevant? What's the difference anyhow? Romney's awesome hair?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yeah, the POTUS murdered 4 Americans by not ordering a strike or rescue mission. He then relieves a General and a Rear Admiral of their commands for planning their own missions. The murdering, treasonous liar in chief is culpable and he knew. He was in the situation room watching the thing go down and ordered people to stand down. That was not a lawful order. Those leaders should be proud of their actions, unfortunately, their career is over.

Mitt will be the next President of the U.S.

[rock on sooner]

Romney is a man-who-has-never-met-an-issue-that-he-couldn't-
or-didn't-flip-on. Look up untrustworthy in the dictionary and you'll
see his picture beside the classic definition.

[rock on sooner]

Yeah, the POTUS murdered 4 Americans by not ordering a strike or rescue mission. He then relieves a General and a Rear Admiral of their commands for planning their own missions. The murdering, treasonous lier in chief is culpable and he knew. He was in the situation room watching the thing go down and ordered people to stand down. That is not a lawful order.


Mitt will be the next President of the U.S.

THA, with that attitude, you should look around each time you're out in
public. Some folks might seriously take offense at such nonsense,
"Murdered"? Get a life!

[Midtowner]

I can't understand why Cons are so upset over 4 American deaths when Romney is clearly on the record saying that emergency rooms can handle the healthcare needs of the uninsured. That's going to kill a lot more than 4 Americans and we don't even have to make up facts like the Cons do to make our case true.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The murdering socialist is a clueless *** that has no decency, no honor and no American value. He is a commie, socialist and wants to destroy this country.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

THA, with that attitude, you should look around each time you're out in
public. Some folks might seriously take offense at such nonsense,
"Murdered"? Get a life!
What would you call it?

He directly ordered people to stand down and not to help. He could have done something, he chose to let them die and then concocted a story that fit into his Islam is good narrative. He is NO leader and he will not lead.

[Midtowner]

What would you call it?

He directly ordered people to stand down and not to help. He could have done something, he chose to let them die and then concocted a story that fit into his Islam is good narrative. He is NO leader and he will not lead.

Keep your Bengazi made up crap in another thread. We're talking about Romney and his inability to stick to anything he says.

[hawaii 5-0]

Whoop !!!!

There goes another implosion.

That's 3 now and counting.

And continuing.

5-0

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Nope.

a full afterburner flyby would at least been something. He calmly told people to stand down and went to bed, then got up the next morning to go Las Vegas and Beyonce's fundraiser. I am fully aware of implications. This Al Qaeda attack did not fit his narrative and he sacrificed 4 people for that campaign narative.

There will be a special turd in hell for this man to smoke when his natural time on this earth is over.

write your senator's to oppose the confirmation of Gen. David Rodriguez who relieved Gen. Carter Ham from Africom. At least Gen. Ham had the balls to do something.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

The murdering socialist is a clueless *** that has no decency, no honor and no American value. He is a commie, socialist and wants to destroy this country.
are you comfortable with every american president being called a murderer? think they would all fit your standard

[sappstuf]

REB_Q7N8vSw

1. “Mitt Romney has a plan to help the auto industry.” No specific plan is referenced in the ad, and Romney’s campaign web site does not include a plan to “help the auto industry.” In 2008, Romney wrote a New York Times editorial titled, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” and he re-upped his call against the auto rescue during the Republican primaries this year.

2. “[Romney] is supported by Lee Iaccoca and the Detroit News.” Chrysler Chairman Lee Iaccoca has indeed endorsed Romney. The Detroit News, a self-described “conservative newspaper,” endorsed him last week. But in that endorsement, the paper slammed Romney’s “wrong-headedness on the auto bailout.”

3. “Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy.” Obama did take both companies into a managed bankruptcy, the path Romney says was originally his idea. Romney, however, supported private sector financing of the bankruptcy, a plan that was “pure fantasy” at the time since no private lenders could lend to the companies in the middle of the financial crisis. Without federal intervention, the companies would have almost assuredly collapsed, costing 1.3 million jobs, according to industry estimates.

4. “[Obama] sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China.” This week, Romney claimed he read a news story that said Chrysler was planning to “moving all production to China.” The Bloomberg News piece he referenced, though, made it clear that Fiat, the Italian company that now owns Chrysler, was opening new factories in China to make Jeeps for Chinese consumers. No American plants will be closed, and no American jobs will be lost. The ad’s claim may not be as false as Romney’s previous statement, but it is certainly misleading.


http://radio.foxnews.com/2012/10/28/romneys-auto-bailout-ad-tells-four-lies-in-30-seconds/#.UI3aJm_A_Kc

Oh brother...

1. Obama didn't release his plan for his second term unti 560 days into his official campaign.. Do you believe he didn't have it or didn't release it? I'll go with didn't release it then same with Romney above. You can't say it is a lie, you can say he hasn't released it.

2. “[Romney] is supported by Lee Iaccoca and the Detroit News.” They follow it up with "Chrysler Chairman Lee Iaccoca has indeed endorsed Romney. The Detroit News, a self-described “conservative newspaper,” endorsed him last week". So they do support him.. They endorsed him! Even if they quibble about details, the end result is the claim that he is supported by both of them is 100% true.

3. “Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy.” Next sentence "Obama did take both companies into a managed bankruptcy" This one is laughable, your cut and paste says it is a lie, but the very next sentence says it is not. Obama took them into bankruptcy is 100% true. Everything else is spin.

4. “[Obama] sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China.” Followed with "The Bloomberg News piece he referenced, though, made it clear that Fiat, the Italian company that now owns Chrysler, was opening new factories in China to make Jeeps for Chinese consumers. " So they are building Jeeps in China. They follow it with no American jobs will be lost. I don't see anything in Romney's sentence above that states that.

If this is the best you have, Obama is in serious trouble.. Oh wait. He is.

[cleller]

The main thing Romney has going for him is that he's not Obama. If that's enough to win it for him, something must have been pretty wrong with Obama.

[FaninAma]

The reason I refuse to vote for Obama is because he is a lightweight. He lacks stature. He has worked his entire life in the government sector. He has accomplished nothing that would qualify him to be President and his inexperience has shown through his first term.

I know lots of individuals personally who have accomplished more professionally and personally than this product of the progressive, parasitic government system.

[jk the sooner fan]

ask Midtowner two simple questions

1. has Obama lied about anything during his tenure as POTUS or during either of his campaigns?
2. if yes (cough cough)has Midtowner called Obama out on it?

he'll say no to both........ignore the shill

[KABOOKIE]

Obama and (D)s can lie all they want. It's the end that matters not the means.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

The reason I refuse to vote for Obama is because he is a lightweight. He lacks stature. He has worked his entire life in the government sector. He has accomplished nothing that would qualify him to be President and his inexperience has shown through his first term.

To be fair Romney isn't Mr Experience either, a single term of governor is it for him. Bain Capital is not governing experience.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Obama and (D)s can lie all they want. It's the end that matters not the means.
Exactly my point. I am being shrill on purpose. No one or no Lame Stream Media is calling him out or calling for him to account for his actions. They all have mouth at the ready to suck his johnson. What he has done is dishonorable and he has not fulfilled his oath to the constitution. Being shrill to the point of absurdity seems only recourse left to get a point across. Most libs or progressives will not listen to fact or a cogent argument. They are embedded into their ideology...


look at all the recent vandalism...it ain't conservatives doing it to libs, its all libs attacking conservatives. Case in point, LA car keying vandalism, the Wisconsin nail dumping in the parking lot of a Tea Party rally and the multiple tearing down or burning of Romney signs across the country.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

To be fair Romney isn't Mr Experience either, a single term of governor is it for him. Bain Capital is not governing experience.

a whole lot more experience and relevant experience than The Socialist has or had...

[KABOOKIE]

To be fair Romney isn't Mr Experience either, a single term of governor is it for him. Bain Capital is not governing experience.
Yeah, remember the argument over Sarah Palin and her experience? Yeah people were scared to have her one heart beat away from the POTUS but Obama? NO PROBLEM!!!!

[rock on sooner]

Exactly my point. I am being shrill on purpose. No one or no Lame Stream Media is calling him out or calling for him to account for his actions. They all have mouth at the ready to suck his johnson. What he has done is dishonorable and he has not fulfilled his oath to the constitution. Being shrill to the point of absurdity seems only recourse left to get a point across. Most libs or progressives will not listen to fact or a cogent argument. They are embedded into their ideology...


look at all the recent vandalism...it ain't conservatives doing it to libs, its all libs attacking conservatives. Case in point, LA car keying vandalism, the Wisconsin nail dumping in the parking lot of a Tea Party rally and the multiple tearing down or burning of Romney signs across the country.

I hadn't heard about the nail dumping...that's pretty low...I've heard about
Obama's sings being burned, as well. Car keying? Has it been traced to Dems?
Don't approve of that, either.

I disagree with most everything you RWers say, but sure as hell wouldn't vandalize
you car. I have let air out of tires, though, in my exuberant, irrational youth...for
an entirely different reason...dint want the sheriff's car to move...Halloween, doncha
know...:biggrin:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I disagree with most everything you RWers say, but sure as hell wouldn't vandalize
you car. I have let air out of tires, though, in my exuberant, irrational youth...for
an entirely different reason...dint want the sheriff's car to move...Halloween, doncha
know...:biggrin:

i can get on board with this... I appreciate passion for an ideal, but don't suppress or sanitize the information place it out there for all to view, discuss or cuss...

Uhhh, letting air out sounds a little like Porky's :wink: too funny!

[rock on sooner]

i can get on board with this... I appreciate passion for an ideal, but don't suppress or sanitize the information place it out there for all to view, discuss or cuss...

Uhhh, letting air out sounds a little like Porky's :wink: too funny!

Thought of it looonnnggg before Porky's....

[FaninAma]

To be fair Romney isn't Mr Experience either, a single term of governor is it for him. Bain Capital is not governing experience.

At least at Bain Romney was working in the private sector. Obama has sucked off the government tit for so long he is clueless that there is any other way to get things done other than using government.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

a whole lot more experience and relevant experience than The Socialist has or had...


Yeah, remember the argument over Sarah Palin and her experience? Yeah people were scared to have her one heart beat away from the POTUS but Obama? NO PROBLEM!!!!
State senator for 7 years, national senator for 3 with 12 years experience teaching Constitutional law. That's significantly more experience than Romney/Palin, unfortunately he didn't pay attention to his own constitutional law teaching

[XingTheRubicon]

It was fun while it lasted...



Ohio: New polls today shows Romney leads Obama 2 percent in Ohio

http://www.examiner.com/article/ohio-new-polls-today-shows-romney-leads-obama-2-percent-ohio

[TheHumanAlphabet]

State senator for 7 years, national senator for 3 with 12 years experience teaching Constitutional law. That's significantly more experience than Romney/Palin, unfortunately he didn't pay attention to his own constitutional law teaching

Oh, excuse me. Sitting in a chair and not voting and "teaching" badly according to many former students is now >>>>> than running a successful business, earning profits and making investors money and getting contractural agreements between diverse parties. Yeah, right...

[hawaii 5-0]

Obama is the epitome of the "excessive self regard tendency". It is a business psych term for someone who is either inexperienced, incompetent or arrogant that overpromises and can't deliver. For example, a home builder that tells you it will cost 100K and will be done in 6 months. The house ends up costing 200k and takes 2 years. The home builder misjudged because of the excessive self regard or they lied. Obama is all of that.

Romney has at least governed a state and has a grasp of economics.



...and we're still waiting to find out how he's gonna cut the deficit while giving tax breaks to the wealthy and increasing defense spending.

He's a regular economics magician.

5-0

[Midtowner]

Obama is the epitome of the "excessive self regard tendency". It is a business psych term for someone who is either inexperienced, incompetent or arrogant that overpromises and can't deliver. For example, a home builder that tells you it will cost 100K and will be done in 6 months. The house ends up costing 200k and takes 2 years. The home builder misjudged because of the excessive self regard or they lied. Obama is all of that.

Romney has at least governed a state and has a grasp of economics.

Right... your guy wants to cut taxes for everyone by 20% by closing "loopholes" that he won't name.

--that sounds kinda like "excessive self-regard tendency."

[XingTheRubicon]

Well, we know the current POTUS is an economic retard, just wondering if Romney is.



We'll find out if the winner's votes outnumber the loser's votes.

[sappstuf]

Obama may not be perfect, but do we really want some new guy? I'll stick with the incompetent fool I know, thank you!









/sarcasm

[cleller]

Well, we know the current POTUS is an economic retard, just wondering if Romney is.



We'll find out if the winner's votes outnumber the loser's votes.

Fool me once, shame on you....

[FaninAma]

State senator for 7 years, national senator for 3 with 12 years experience teaching Constitutional law. That's significantly more experience than Romney/Palin, unfortunately he didn't pay attention to his own constitutional law teaching

With all due reespect to teachers but teaching at a liberal university has qualified him to be President? um, OK.

[SoonerorLater]

This is a political campaign. What do you expect? Both candidates will lie, cheat, obfuscate facts and besmirch the opposing candidate either by themselves or by proxy using their minions and thugs. So when somebody says a candidate lies it is a complete red herring. In the universe in which we exist our only choice is which liar we will vote for. Both Obama and Romney will be poor choices to lead this country. In the end I will hold my nose and vote for Romney under the assumption he is not as bad of a choice as Obama.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

are you comfortable with every american president being called a murderer? think they would all fit your standard

No, just this one...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Oh and to get back on topic...

Fiat announced they are looking to move Jeep and Chrysler production to Italy and seek Italian and EU tax relief and benefits for moving the jobs to the EU.

[pphilfran]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1

Fiat SpA (F) Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne set a target two and a half years ago to sell 6 million cars annually by 2014, a goal that analysts and industry observers at the time deemed impossible to achieve. They were right.

Marchionne, who runs both the Italian automaker and Chrysler Group LLC, has said he will revise his forecasts when the two companies announce third-quarter results tomorrow. Analysts estimate his sales target will need to come down by 15 billion euros ($19 billion).

Fiat’s problems are bigger than many rivals’ because its troubled home country accounts for half its sales in the region. Its plants in Italy, where car sales are on pace to plunge this year to the lowest level in more than three decades, are running at 50 percent of capacity, far below the 80 percent threshold typically considered profitable.

To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said.

“This makes sense on multiple levels” as it will boost plant utilization and would cap “Chrysler’s own potential, limiting the likely cost to Fiat shareholders of buying out the Chrysler minorities,” Stuart Pearson, an analyst at Morgan Stanley in London, said in a note to investors today. “However we see no quick answers, and fear debt could surprise negatively first,” said Pearson, who rates the stock underweight with a target price at 3.90 euros.

[StoopTroup]

The reason I refuse to vote for Obama is because he is a lightweight. He lacks stature. He has worked his entire life in the government sector. He has accomplished nothing that would qualify him to be President and his inexperience has shown through his first term.

I know lots of individuals personally who have accomplished more professionally and personally than this product of the progressive, parasitic government system.

Well....he has accomplished being POTUS for nearly four years and ran a decent campaign against Mitt Romney that at best still has Romney praying for a win next Tuesday.

I think you are right about people who have accomplished more professionally and personally but it's a pretty well known fact that none of those type of people have ever even considered running for POTUS. They seem to find filling their pockets with money they don't need more satisfying than running for one of the Most Powerful Positions in the World. I think you make a great point but most of those folks aren't willing to sacrifice anything to get the job. Look at Trump for example. It wasn't his ego or his contract with NBC that got in his way of running for POTUS. I wonder what it could have been? It couldn't be that he's a parasitic predator in the Private Sector now could it?

[pphilfran]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/21/small-jeep-and-fiat-suvs-to-be-built-in-italy/

In a bid to fill some of its empty Italian production capacity, Fiat plans to build a pair of small SUVs at its plant in Melfi starting in 2014, according to Automotive News Europe. With most Chrysler plants running at or near full capacity, the Melfi facility will probably build the new Fiat and Jeep SUVs for export to North America. The final decision could come as soon as this weekend. The new small Jeep is expected to replace the Patriot and/or Compass, which are both produced in Chrysler's Belvidere, Illinois plant.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Stoup, it will be a landslide for Romney, my guess 310+ electoral votes...

[pphilfran]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111003/CARNEWS/111009983

Fiat's group executive council made the production decisions for Mirafiori at meetings on Friday and Saturday, reversing a plan first announced in December 2010 to install in Mirafiori the bigger CUSW architecture.

CUSW is a wider, U.S. compliant version of Fiat's European Compact architecture that debuted last year on the Alfa Giulietta compact hatchback.

The first model to use the CUSW architecture will be a Dodge compact sedan that will replace the Caliber and will be unveiled in January at the Detroit auto show.

Mirafiori currently builds the Alfa MiTo 3-door subcompact, as well as the Fiat Idea and Lancia Musa small minivans.

Fiat-Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said in a statement that refurbishing Mirafiori "is an important step in our plans to re-industrialize our Italian manufacturing backbone in view of current market developments and the increased distribution reach provided by Chrysler Group."

He added: "This leading-edge architecture will allow us to provide the most updated platforms for the development of our brands, and more importantly, will allow us to access the full powertrain offerings of both Fiat and Chrysler."

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111003/carnews/111009983#ixzz2AoQfgEGS

[StoopTroup]

Stoup, it will be a landslide for Romney, my guess 310+ electoral votes...

I so hope you are right. I don't want to see you move to another Country and bitch about the next 4 years from over there via the internet.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I so hope you are right. I don't want to see you move to another Country and bitch about the next 4 years from over there via the internet.

:D

Nah, I'd stick around and work from the sidelines to obfuscate and denigrate the Socialist administration. Someone has to, it sure won't be the media... ;)

[pphilfran]

Oh and to get back on topic...

Fiat announced they are looking to move Jeep and Chrysler production to Italy and seek Italian and EU tax relief and benefits for moving the jobs to the EU.

They didn't necessarily say they were going to move production....only to utilize the existing Italian capacity to produce Jeep products in Italy for export to the US....

As I have said many times, when we sold Chrysler to Fiat we gave them a ready made dealer network that would give them immediate ability to compete against the remaining two US auto manufacturers...and Fiat is going to take advantage of that gift horse...

[rock on sooner]

He can't promise which deductions will be cut. If he did make promises, then he would be making promises he couldn't necessarily keep. Romney floated the idea of a $17,000 dollar deduction bucket. If one didn't change or do away with certain deductions, but made people choose up to 17K, then he really doesn't have to name specifics. If you limit deductions to 17K, then that really hits the rich. You could drop tax rates if you end up taxing more dollars.

During an interview with the Des Moines Register, Romney floated his bucket idea.
Here's how it went, (paraphrasing) i suggest a cap on deductions, it could be $17000,
$25000, even $50000, when the cap is reached (the bucket is full) then that's it, maybe
high icome earners would have no cap, but, I think we should keep charitable
deductions. (self serving here, he gave $4000000 in 2011, but only claimed 2.5m so he
would stay in the 14% tax bracket.)

[pphilfran]

He pulled that number out of his butt....overall, I do like the idea....

[rock on sooner]

Maybe, maybe not. What we do know is 1)Romney has been successful as a governor and a businessman. He has experience at some level. Obama never had any experience. He is/was just an ideologue with an inflated sense of self.

Romney was successful as a governor....47th in job growth in the nation, overall wages
went down 5% on his watch,cut funding to education, cut taxes for the 278
wealthiest families in the state, while raising fees..burial fees, vehicle fees, etc, had
a negative approval rating when he left office and left Mass with the highest debt
per capita in the country. Successful? I don't think so.

[Skysooner]

:D

Nah, I'd stick around and work from the sidelines to obfuscate and denigrate the Socialist administration. Someone has to, it sure won't be the media... ;)

Not a chance in hell he gets 300. He will eke it out if he wins. This site makes the most sense to me. It averages most of the other polls and looks at it statistically which is what I do for work.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

[LiveLaughLove]

Not a chance in hell he gets 300. He will eke it out if he wins. This site makes the most sense to me. It averages most of the other polls and looks at it statistically which is what I do for work.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

Not a chance in heck the NYTimes is a down the middle on anything website. 73% chance Obama wins Ohio? 57% that he wins Virginia? and this is supposed to be serious? Come on. Not even Obama would buy those numbers.

Averages and stats can be made to dance however you want them to. If you average several liberal leaning polls with a couple of middle of the road ones, with a single conservative leaning one, guess which way the average will tilt?

I don't need averages, Rasmussen has been the most consistently close to right in past elections. You muddy the water with less accurate ones that you give equal weight to.

But hey, we'll see wont we.

I said 53-47%, I think that's looking pretty good at the moment.

I don't suspect Romney get's to 300, but I suspect he easily get's enough to win.

[rock on sooner]

If you have low unemployment, then it is hard to grow jobs. If someone went from 95% employment to 96%, then the increase isn't much. If someone went from 90% to 92%, then your growth is greater. But which state has better employment? The 47th stat is a BS stat for the ignorant.

Pretty certain that I'm not ignorant...seems as though you forgot to
dispute the other 6 points of my post. That's okay, though. Facts do
seem to confuse...

[hawaii 5-0]

Romney was successful as a governor....47th in job growth in the nation, overall wages
went down 5% on his watch,cut funding to education, cut taxes for the 278
wealthiest families in the state, while raising fees..burial fees, vehicle fees, etc, had
a negative approval rating when he left office and left Mass with the highest debt
per capita in the country. Successful? I don't think so.


Hey, don't go messin' with Mitt's Myth.

5-0

[Skysooner]

Not a chance in heck the NYTimes is a down the middle on anything website. 73% chance Obama wins Ohio? 57% that he wins Virginia? and this is supposed to be serious? Come on. Not even Obama would buy those numbers.

Averages and stats can be made to dance however you want them to. If you average several liberal leaning polls with a couple of middle of the road ones, with a single conservative leaning one, guess which way the average will tilt?

I don't need averages, Rasmussen has been the most consistently close to right in past elections. You muddy the water with less accurate ones that you give equal weight to.

But hey, we'll see wont we.

I said 53-47%, I think that's looking pretty good at the moment.

I don't suspect Romney get's to 300, but I suspect he easily get's enough to win.

Yes, we will and knowing statistics as well as I do, I agree with the methodology. This same paper was almost dead on with the gains the Pubs made in 2010. Don't discount it just because you don't believe it. They aren't polling. They are averaging polls.

[rock on sooner]

yes, the 47 stat is for the ignorant. Last I checked, mass was a dem controlled state. You didn't quite fact that into your argument. Bottom line is, he governed and worked with dems. Obama didn't have any experience coming into office. Only a true ideologue would think that Obama has been a success. Any rational thinker would think otherwise.

Romney may not be the best choice, but of the 2 with any chance of winning, he is by far the best choice.

Bottom line, cowboy, is Romney is the poster boy for flip flop..never met an issue
that he couldn't be on both sides of. And , to say that Obama hasn't been successful,
I'd only say, pull your head out and look at the ACA, all by itself...kids until age 26
still covered, doughnut hole closing, equal premiums for both sexes, preexisting
conditions covered, leveled out rx prices, etc. Then, let's look at Iraq,done, Don't
Ask don't tell, done, OBL gone, AQ in disarray, Afghanistan, orderly draw down, Wall
Street and bankers..some oversight..Bush's freefall job loss, stopped and a slow but
steady growth, a nearly completely wrecked economy on wobbly legs but returning to
health, housing prices on the rise. The list is positive, not like the crap that Romney
left behind in Massachusetts, just ask those that live there and serve there now.

Go on Youtube and look up Romney in 2002 and 2012, same frickin' message, absolutely
the same words. For you to soak that in can best be described as you DESERVE it.

[rock on sooner]

DM(or DM's long lost ignorant cousin), since you often act like a 13 year old, here is a 13 year old's synopsis for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=prmGb1o3dcQ#!

Now it is completely clear, you know where to find 13 year olds. I apologize, I
thought you were an adult. Go back to your cotton candy, I won't bother you
any more.

[MamaMia]

I can't understand why Cons are so upset over 4 American deaths when Romney is clearly on the record saying that emergency rooms can handle the healthcare needs of the uninsured. That's going to kill a lot more than 4 Americans and we don't even have to make up facts like the Cons do to make our case true.Your username should be The Pretzel, or better yet...TwistMeister. :D

[OU_Sooners75]

Romney is a man-who-has-never-met-an-issue-that-he-couldn't-
or-didn't-flip-on. Look up untrustworthy in the dictionary and you'll
see his picture beside the classic definition.

I'm surpised you think Obama hasn't ever flipped on anything.

But what's more amazing is how you think Obama did not lie or do anything wrong with the benghazi situation.

[rock on sooner]

I'm surpised you think Obama hasn't ever flipped on anything.

But what's more amazing is how you think Obama did not lie or do anything wrong with the benghazi situation.

Never said either thing, 75. Merely pointed out the propensity of
Romney to "evolve". As to the Benghazi situation, at first I thought
that it was a smoke screen to allow time to get a handle on who the
perps were, but, clearly, that is not the case. The only explanation
possible is lousy communication and confusion about what to do.
Sure appears as though the Administration blew this one big time.

[soonercruiser]

So, Mid!
I guess you are OK with the Obama administration giving 45% of the company's ownership to the UAW pension funds???
Tax payers pay - unions paid off!
"SKIMULUS"!
:dejection: