Drone Program Smacks of Terminator Mentality

[FaninAma]

http://news.yahoo.com/drone-of-silence-the-national-security-policy-that-obama-and-romney-wont-debate-10251296.html

Using "robots" to conduct warfare seems to a be a huge slippery slope.

[olevetonahill]

Might as well, Hell they got the Patriot act which suspends the Constitution .

[FaninAma]

Might as well, Hell they got the Patriot act which suspends the Constitution .

Another gift from the G.W. Bush administration that just keeps on giving.

[rock on sooner]

Well, what you wanta do, put boots on the ground and more of
our finest in harm's way, or sit in Nevada with a joy stick and do
what needs to be done? Ima thinkin that however we can get the
creeps, especially without putting troops in a double crossing situation,
makes a lot of sense. Just wish Dubya would have done more.

Dayum, Vet, this stuff is keepin' your peeps safer and yer knockin
it. What's up with that?

[SoonerProphet]

Is this war without end, amen? Does the bureaucratic momentum of the drone program mean that it will continue for decades? Is there another kind of disposition matrix that will tell us when the costs of the drone program (from terrorist recruiting to collateral damage) outweigh its benefits?

There was a good article in wired about this subject. Speaks volumes about the hypocrisy of the current state of two party democracy.

[SoonerProphet]

Dayum, Vet, this stuff is keepin' your peeps safer and yer knockin
it. What's up with that?

Me thinks therein lies the rub.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Well, what you wanta do, put boots on the ground and more of
our finest in harm's way, or sit in Nevada with a joy stick and do
what needs to be done? Ima thinkin that however we can get the
creeps, especially without putting troops in a double crossing situation,
makes a lot of sense. Just wish Dubya would have done more.

Dayum, Vet, this stuff is keepin' your peeps safer and yer knockin
it. What's up with that?
I think the issue is that these drone attacks have been carried out in places (Yemen, Pakistan, god knows where else) where we have no authorization to be, either from the Yemenis of from our own Congress. Allowing the military to arbitrarily carry out attacks in various nations is a dangerous thing the Constitution supposedly prevents. Then there's the issue of civilian deaths (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/un-to-probe-drone-attacks-by-us-others-resulting-in-civilian-deaths/2012/10/25/3c4f454e-1ee8-11e2-9cd5-b55c38388962_story.html), which of course is more complicated when the enemy is often living with and among civilians, but is still no excuse for things like follow-up strikes.

[okie52]

The lack of due process is the slippery slope regarding US citizens. Aside from that I fully support the use of drones.

[Skysooner]

The lack of due process is the slippery slope regarding US citizens. Aside from that I fully support the use of drones.

While Bush was the one to put this in, Obama has kept it in and that is another reason I voted the other way this time.

[okie52]

Drones on US citizens or drone use in general?

[Skysooner]

If you were referring to my post I was saying the lack of due process.

[FaninAma]

If a Marine accidentally shoots a kid or a band of civilians sitting on the side of the raod he probaly gets court marshalled. If the CiC authorizes a drone attack that does the same thing it is hailed as successful foreign policy.

[okie52]

If you were referring to my post I was saying the lack of due process.

That's the slippery slope. But the utilization of pilotless aircraft is the future....not only from the elimination of risk to a pilot but also the fact that aircraft can be built without regard for g forces and other human frailties that would make them far superior to piloted aircraft.

[soonercruiser]

Another gift from the G.W. Bush administration that just keeps on giving.

THIS^^^^^
But, it's a gift of "development" from Booosh that Obama keeps taking credit for.
Seems odd, doesn't it?
(Like killing OBL)

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

If a Marine accidentally shoots a kid or a band of civilians sitting on the side of the raod he probaly gets court marshalled. If the CiC authorizes a drone attack that does the same thing it is hailed as successful foreign policy.
Like other parts of our foreign policy (Gitmo), we've found a grey area in international and constitutional law to exploit seemingly without repercussion. The repercussion will come, maybe 20 years down the road, but these drone strikes killing civilians aren't in a vacuum.


THIS^^^^^
But, it's a gift of "development" from Booosh that Obama keeps taking credit for.
Seems odd, doesn't it?
(Like killing OBL)
I don't think Bush was in office when OBL was killed, maybe I'm mis-remembering. Obama gets "credit" for amping up the drone war, though I think its been one of his worst moves.

[StoopTroup]

THIS^^^^^
But, it's a gift of "development" from Booosh that Obama keeps taking credit for.
Seems odd, doesn't it?
(Like killing OBL)

Romney sat right there next to President Obama and said he'd continue to use Drones as POTUS. He also thinks it's something we do right. What seems odd is that everything you have an opinion on is some sort of Obama Conspiracy.

You qualify as a front runner for Daniel Tosh's "Dick of the Week" with all the claims you make in this forum. Geezzz. Even Mel Gibson seems normal in "Conspiracy Theory" when I read your stuff in this forum.

Come up for air....you are drowning in your mind.

[buck]

Stooptroup: shut your liberal pansy mouth, punk. I don't give a crap how many pills you take. Hey, hypocrite boy olevet? How 'scripts do you have?

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Stooptroup: shut your liberal pansy mouth, punk. I don't give a crap how many pills you take. Hey, hypocrite boy olevet? How 'scripts do you have?
You're on a roll

[buck]

I meant "how many".... Thanks so cacky...So how many is it, Bigfoot? (I'm looking at you old vet!!!)

[olevetonahill]

Well, what you wanta do, put boots on the ground and more of
our finest in harm's way, or sit in Nevada with a joy stick and do
what needs to be done? Ima thinkin that however we can get the
creeps, especially without putting troops in a double crossing situation,
makes a lot of sense. Just wish Dubya would have done more.

Dayum, Vet, this stuff is keepin' your peeps safer and yer knockin
it. What's up with that?


Me thinks therein lies the rub.

WTF are you even tryin to say?


The lack of due process is the slippery slope regarding US citizens. Aside from that I fully support the use of drones.

There we go, I couldnt GAS less about the Rag heads gettin their asses blowed away in the Middle of the Night

Its the Suspension of ALL civil rights for OUR citizens that concerns me Hence MY mention of the Patriot Act,
I really dont GAF if George Washington Put it in place , Its WRONG.

[SoonerProphet]

WTF are you even tryin to say?

That drone strikes aren't really making anyone safer, they are counterproductive, and perhaps illegal.

[cleller]

Am I the only one who has no problem with the drone attacks? One of the few things I agree with Obama on.

Someone had a good point about if a soldier shoots someone, he gets the shaft, but drones get a pass. Guess I'm desensitized to them. Still, if some American wants to go over and party with Al Queada in Yemen, and gets snuffed by a drone, I'm not gonna worry about his rights.

[rock on sooner]

I think the issue is that these drone attacks have been carried out in places (Yemen, Pakistan, god knows where else) where we have no authorization to be, either from the Yemenis of from our own Congress. Allowing the military to arbitrarily carry out attacks in various nations is a dangerous thing the Constitution supposedly prevents. Then there's the issue of civilian deaths (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/un-to-probe-drone-attacks-by-us-others-resulting-in-civilian-deaths/2012/10/25/3c4f454e-1ee8-11e2-9cd5-b55c38388962_story.html), which of course is more complicated when the enemy is often living with and among civilians, but is still no excuse for things like follow-up strikes.

SCS, the ONLY place there's any discussion about drones being "unwelcome" is
Pakistan, and that is more PR work on the Pakistanis to keep "face". The Haqqani
Network is helping the Taliban and Al Queda and the drones are hunting them. I
agree about the civilian deaths as unfortunate but when the enemy hides in plain
sight using civilains as a cover, not much choice here. It is war. If troops are in
country and on the same battlefield, there is most likely more caution but it is still
going to happen. I remember commanders discussing a tactic that employed mulitple
sharpshooters to pick out the bad guys and "service" the targets with extreme prejudice
to minimize collateral damage.

Other countries like Yemen, Libya, Somalia, when there is a governing body has given
support and intelligence to assist the drones. As to Congress giving authorization, this
bunch of do-nothings can't authorize additional toilet paper for their own bathrooms.

Not sure about your follow up strikes comment but, it seems to me, that is just being
thorough.

[rock on sooner]

Vet, I agree with your point about the suspension of civil rights. Given the
circumstances of 9/11/01, I'm not sure of another way to quickly clamp down
to get a handle on what was happening. I think the Patriot Act should be revisited
and tweaked. It probably will be at some point but only after more success with
the extremists. (Problem there, though, our efforts perpetuate their hatred and
I don't know where it stops, short of creating glass out of the sand.)

[KantoSooner]

[QUOTE=cleller;3536172]Am I the only one who has no problem with the drone attacks? One of the few things I agree with Obama on.

QUOTE]


No, you're not alone. How else to deal with irregular forces who have no central government that can be punished and who have access to mass murder weapons?

This is our world now. We will be involved in low intensity conflict forever. Given the lack of appetite the American people have for deploying armies abroad with open ended missions (rightly so, in my opinion.), the ability to project robotic force anywhere on the globe is what we'll have to go with.
I'd like to toy with the concept of ultra-high altitude platforms with high-intensity lasers. Find bad person, a straight bolt of lightening leaves him a smoking hole in the ground.

Carries the sort of message that even an Arab can get their mind around.

[olevetonahill]

[QUOTE=cleller;3536172]Am I the only one who has no problem with the drone attacks? One of the few things I agree with Obama on.

QUOTE]


No, you're not alone. How else to deal with irregular forces who have no central government that can be punished and who have access to mass murder weapons?

This is our world now. We will be involved in low intensity conflict forever. Given the lack of appetite the American people have for deploying armies abroad with open ended missions (rightly so, in my opinion.), the ability to project robotic force anywhere on the globe is what we'll have to go with.
I'd like to toy with the concept of ultra-high altitude platforms with high-intensity lasers. Find bad person, a straight bolt of lightening leaves him a smoking hole in the ground.

Carries the sort of message that even an Arab can get their mind around.

And that doesn't scare you even a Little bit?
I dont trust our Government that much I read 1984 when it was still way in the future and all that **** was just Imagination. Now that its ****in Reality. Im very concerned about our most basic freedoms

[rock on sooner]

[QUOTE=KantoSooner;3536430]

And that doesn't scare you even a Little bit?
I dont trust our Government that much I read 1984 when it was still way in the future and all that **** was just Imagination. Now that its ****in Reality. Im very concerned about our most basic freedoms

Ya know, I dont trust the govt that much either, cause that laser stuff is
so much star wars that its not even funny. 20, maybe 30 years in the future
, but, Vet, ya gotta admit that this drone stuff is far better than putting
covert guys on the ground, (my favoriteist warriors of ALL time) and in harm's
way. So long as it is war then my belief is you be as careful as the situation
allows but ya get the bad guys, no matter what. I am firmly convinced that
if these people know how they are being hunted but have no clue as to when
then we have a better than even shot at winning and eventually putting this
stuff in the history books. The true sadness is that everything is so open ended
that no end game is available. So, taking away good guys from harm and
ramping up the bad guys in harm's way, aint a bad idea. Jus imo...

[8timechamps]

The scary part is that unmanned aerial drones are the tip of the iceberg. DARPA just announced the finalist for their bi-pod competition (and don't you know the DOD is heavily involved/interested). It's only a matter of years until we see the first walking drone.

Like SP said, there is a rub. Would you rather have someone's son/daughter standing in a warzone, or a pile of machine parts? On the other hand, the pile of machine parts lacks the critical thinking skills to know when to pull the trigger or hold fire. Right now, most of these drones are manned somewhere, I don't think it's always going to be like that.

Tough issue.