The Benghazi cover-up or whatever it is...

[ouwasp]

So why did this clumsy episode ever happen; I mean the way it played out as far as blaming the attack on the dumbazz video?

So the Radical Mooslems attacked a target on the anniversary of 9-11. I'm sure most folks would accept that news with a disgusted shake of the head while thinking "That's what those #$#%^&* do..."

So why the repeatedpretense of the the violence having anything to do with the video? <shrug> I've heard some talking heads saying it was to keep criticism of US Libya policy from getting airtime. As long as a lot of Americans are not dying and our $$$ is not being sunk into a ****hole like (name an Arab country), I don't believe most Americans really care. Unless gas prices are involved.

I've heard it said that the Administration didn't wish to cast a bad light on Islam. Really? Most humans possessing more than a few brain cells know their radicals have all the humanity of a rabid dog. Otherwise, most Americans don't care much about anything Islamic, once again, as long as gas prices aren't affected.

Was it because it was feared the lack of security would be revealed, coupled with the repeated requests for additional security? Did they think the video Red Herring would truly overshadow that? Or at least until election day? Surely they're not that obtuse.

So what do the Obamafest posters believe was behind this sorry episode? And why do you think the Administration thought they could simply brush this off?

[CatfishSooner]

great questions, I would like to know too...

[SCOUT]

It is hard to claim victory over terrorism when there is a terrorist attack.

[OU_Sooners75]

From what I have heard on CNN and Fox News, is that Obama is very arrogant in person. If you disagree with him, well, he is always right. And that no matter what he is the smartest one in the room.

Now, I'm not sure how true that is, never met the ********* in chief. But I'm not so sure they false.

Anyway, I think the answer to the questions to OP raised needs to be answered, and our president and his staff needs to be held accountable.

But, the answers...arrogance, oblivious, in over his head probably are the true and honest answers.

[cleller]

I think it boils down to the idea that Obama is trying to not tick off Muslims. That part doesn't bother me so much. The problem is that he may be willing to back down from them if confronted. In this instance, I believe he didn't want to be seen beefing up security while things were still playing out in Libya. He didn't want it to look like the US had an agenda, or wanted to push the process one way or another. He makes this very clear to everyone, including Hilary.

So, for the speculation, I can see Hilary broaching the issue. Maybe Hilary even warns him things are getting scary. Obama responds by not deigning to discuss the matter with her. He was too focused on the re-election, and Hilary is the woman he already taught who was boss.

Now for the curious part. The attack happens, and Obama doesn't want to deal with it. He gets on a plane and heads to Las Vegas. Who would do that? Someone who got caught flat-footed and doesn't want to be in the same town with people that know he's fumbled something.

Then, you witness the highly deceptive statements he makes for two weeks afterward. His over-the-top denouncement of that video, and exaggerated anger at the UN address. He really goes at it for extra effect, oversells it. Like someone trying to convince himself that he's not to blame.

Just my guess. Its what seems most likely to me, but I don't expect anyone with loyalties to Obama to buy it.

[ouwasp]

Thanks cleller.... that's the most cogent speculation I have seen. Makes sense. Wonder if they'll be held accountable, or if this will just fade away...

[jk the sooner fan]

Hillary Clinton said this :“Posting something on Facebook is not in and of itself evidence"

yet she blamed the attacks on a youtube video for 2 weeks......


i cant for the life of me figure out why they handled it the way they have.....i think most americans know or suspect that we're going to get "hit again" from time to time

dealing with the cover up and lies takes more time and focus away from dealing with any mistakes made, and recommended changes moving forward

[LiveLaughLove]

Two reasons I think for the cover up:

1. He was campaigning on "OBL is dead and Al Qaeda is in retreat". His one great achievement. (Curiously, he doesn't campaign on ObamaCare, but I digress)

He was too narcissistic to admit he was wrong.

2. His people botched the security at Benghazi big big big time. I don't believe Obama hisself dictates security, but he has to know he is ultimately responsible.

Once again, being a narcissist, he won't admit to being wrong. So the cover up.

I think ultimately it boils down to his character and lack thereof.


Al Qaeda always uses the internet to make their claims of responsibility. Nothing new there, Hillary is just trying to deflect (lie).

[soonercruiser]

It is hard to claim victory over terrorism when there is a terrorist attack.

THIS^^^^...
And, it's perception for a few voters in the gen election.
I'm thinking Hillary or Valerie Jarret insulated Obama.
Then, Obama didn't think it was important enough to change his money raising vacations.

This post is brought to you by the letter "O", and the number 16 Trillion!

[TitoMorelli]

Please, oh please, let this be some kind of sick joke or prank:



The father of one of the former Navy SEALs killed in the terrorist attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya says President Barack Obama wouldn’t even look him in the eye and Vice President Joe Biden was disrespectful during the ceremony when his son’s body returned to America. He also says the White House’s story on the attack doesn’t pass the smell test.

Charles Woods, father of Tyrone Woods, called into “The Glenn Beck Program” on TheBlazeTV Thursday and recounted his interactions with the president, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Biden at the ceremony for the Libya victims at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland. He told host Glenn Beck that what they told him, coupled with new reports that indicate the Obama administration knew very good and well, almost immediately, that a terrorist attack was occurring in Benghazi, make him certain that the American people are not getting the whole truth.

Vice President Biden, as he has become known to do, reportedly made a wildly inappropriate comment to the father who had just lost his hero son.

Woods said Biden came over to his family and asked in a “loud and boisterous” voice, “Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?”


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/joe-biden-to-father-of-former-navy-seal-killed-in-benghazi-did-your-son-always-have-balls-the-size-of-cue-balls/

[soonercruiser]

Here is Chris Matthews doing Obama's dirty work at the debate Monday evening.
The kid is 10 times smarter that Matthews; and his leg is dry!


hjvs1qvtKyY

[MamaMia]

Already in campaign mode in May of 2007, candidate Obama declared in a radio interview that the day he is elected “the rest of the world will look at the United States differently.” Only he can “reach out to the Muslim world” because “I understand their point of view” even though I am a Christian… With me as President, “the world will have confidence that I am listening to them.” This understanding “will make us safer, something this (Bush) administration failed to understand.”

How is all that listening working out for Obama?

[ouwasp]

Shaking my head....back in 2008, when it was obvious a Democrat was going to win the election, I was actually glad to see BHO knock HRC on her butt. Of course, I didn't vote for either of them, but what a mistake it was to want to see him prez over her!

Maybe America will fix this mistake in a couple weeks... or maybe we'll get what we deserve...

[diverdog]

I understand their initial reaction. There was wide spread violence and outrage over the video in a lot of muslim nations. To make a leap that this attack was because of the video would not be a stretch.

[KABOOKIE]

I understand their initial reaction. There was wide spread violence and outrage over the video in a lot of muslim nations. To make a leap that this attack was because of the video would not be a stretch.

Only for the feeble minded.

[FaninAma]

I understand their initial reaction. There was wide spread violence and outrage over the video in a lot of muslim nations. To make a leap that this attack was because of the video would not be a stretch.

Does it matter? Our consulate was under attack. The White House had live video and real time e-mails. Help was requested on 3 different occasions. The 2 Navy Seals that died disobeyed orders to stand down and went in to try and help anyway. They pulled out live personnel and one who was dead and took them to the CIA safe house where they again asked for help. They all ended up dead.

Are you really going to defend the POS's that are responsible for this? Why don't you read the interview with the father of the dead ex-Seal, Tyrone Woods , and then get back to us.

[jk the sooner fan]

I understand their initial reaction. There was wide spread violence and outrage over the video in a lot of muslim nations. To make a leap that this attack was because of the video would not be a stretch.

dude, use you brain

seriously...we get that you're stuck on Obama's jock - but have the intellectual honesty to call something obvious as it is

3 times they asked for help - 3 times they were told to stand down

a youtube video that had been out for 6 months......and we get attacked on the ELEVENTH OF SEPTEMBER......in a middle eastern muslim country- and you honestly think our administration thought it was over a youtube video?

if you believe that - you deserve what you get

we've got a dead US Ambassador and 3 other americans.......this is really less about an intelligence failure than it is the pathetic response and subsequent cover up

[jk the sooner fan]

diverdog probably thinks OJ was innocent

[diverdog]

Does it matter? Our consulate was under attack. The White House had live video and real time e-mails. Help was requested on 3 different occasions. The 2 Navy Seals that died disobeyed orders to stand down and went in to try and help anyway. They pulled out live personnel and one who was dead and took them to the CIA safe house where they again asked for help. They all ended up dead.

Are you really going to defend the POS's that are responsible for this? Why don't you read the interview with the father of the dead ex-Seal, Tyrone Woods , and then get back to us.


Jk:

Have you lost the ability to read? I am only pointing out that it is reasonable in the hours after the attack to link it to the anti muslim video. There were wide spread protest and violence across the muslim world. Dozens of people had died. In the fog of battle this would be logical leap to the cause of the attack. I am pretty sure there are threads on this board where most people thought the same thing. Now that there is much more information everyone is playing monday morning quarterback.

As I said before bad things happen to good people in war zones. There is not a single shred of evidence that anyone has produced that would have proved the Ambassador would be alive if there was more security. The only way we could be sure he would have lived is for him not to have been there in the first place. So maybe the real question we should ask is why was he in Benghazi.

[sappstuf]

Jk:

Have you lost the ability to read? I am only pointing out that it is reasonable in the hours after the attack to link it to the anti muslim video. There were wide spread protest and violence across the muslim world. Dozens of people had died. In the fog of battle this would be logical leap to the cause of the attack. I am pretty sure there are threads on this board where most people thought the same thing. Now that there is much more information everyone is playing monday morning quarterback.

As I said before bad things happen to good people in war zones. There is not a single shred of evidence that anyone has produced that would have proved the Ambassador would be alive if there was more security. The only way we could be sure he would have lived is for him not to have been there in the first place. So maybe the real question we should ask is why was he in Benghazi.

So you are telling me that if we had Marines on the wall, which we should have, instead of untrained Libyans it wouldn't have made a difference??

http://netanimations.net/Bovine-excrement-meter-animation.gif

[Tulsa_Fireman]

You have got to be ****ting me.

We're getting evidence that SOMEONE in high reaching places straight let those men die and repeatedly failed to answer calls for support and assistance and you're STILL hung up about whether it was from the video or a terrorist attack?

Wow.

[FaninAma]

Diverdog, you seem like a reasonable fellow but it is infuriating to think of Americans serving their country hunkered down trying to fend off overwhelming numbers and begging for help while the politicians sit safely in their situation room refusing to pull the trigger on sending in help not once but three times over a 6 hour period. THREE TIMES.

Worrying about collateral damage is a pathetic excuse especially when you consider Obama's drone strikes are wreaking a hell of a lot of collateral damage,. So what is the real reasons he allowed these men to die? It has to be political.

[diverdog]

So you are telling me that if we had Marines on the wall, which we should have, instead of untrained Libyans it wouldn't have made a difference?? http://netanimations.net/Bovine-excrement-meter-animation.gifWe had a **** load of marines on the wall at Camp Bastion and the Taliban managed to Kill VMA-211's commanding officer, another Marine KIA, 8 wounded and Six Harriers destroyed. They did this with a force smaller than the one that attacked the US compound in Libya. They had the element of surprise which is a huge advantage.

[diverdog]

Diverdog, you seem like a reasonable fellow but it is infuriating to think of Americans serving their country hunkered down trying to fend off overwhelming numbers and begging for help while the politicians sit safely in their situation room refusing to pull the trigger on sending in help not once but three times over a 6 hour period. THREE TIMES.

Worrying about collateral damage is a pathetic excuse especially when you consider Obama's drone strikes are wreaking a hell of a lot of collateral damage,. So what is the real reasons he allowed these men to die? It has to be political.

Fanin:

It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback this thing but none of us were there. I have no idea what assets they had available and how long it would take them to deploy those assets. I suspect the Blackhawk down scenario was still firmly in their mind. I would prefer to read the actual findings instead of watching some political witch hunt.

[diverdog]

You have got to be ****ting me.

We're getting evidence that SOMEONE in high reaching places straight let those men die and repeatedly failed to answer calls for support and assistance and you're STILL hung up about whether it was from the video or a terrorist attack?

Wow.

No I was addressing the original post.

Since you are throwing stones at glass houses tell me exactly what forces you would have sent in and where were they located, how do you get everyone out safely, and what would be your rendezvous point.

[MamaMia]

Fanin:

It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback this thing but none of us were there. I have no idea what assets they had available and how long it would take them to deploy those assets. I suspect the Blackhawk down scenario was still firmly in their mind. I would prefer to read the actual findings instead of watching some political witch hunt.You don't think Navy Seals are trained well enough to know when they need help?

http://news.yahoo.com/father-slain-former-seal-report-raise-questions-response-175333469--abc-news-politics.html

[diverdog]

You don't think Navy Seals are trained well enough to know when they need help?

http://news.yahoo.com/father-slain-former-seal-report-raise-questions-response-175333469--abc-news-politics.html


Again where were they, how do you get them there and how do you get them out? We lost a ton of SEALs in a poorly planned raid in Afghanistan. There is a real possibility we could have lost a lot more men in Libya. Did you even consider that possibility? Sometimes doing nothing is the right answer.

[MamaMia]

Again where were they, how do you get them there and how do you get them out? We lost a ton of SEALs in a poorly planned raid in Afghanistan. There is a real possibility we could have lost a lot more men in Libya. Did you even consider that possibility? Sometimes doing nothing is the right answer.
When Americans serving our country are in danger of dying and begging for help, doing nothing is never the right answer. Our armed forces are highly trained to know what to do. With everything brewing. I'm sure they had a plan of attack. Thats what they do. They should have been allowed to do their job.

What do you think about Obama not allowing them to have the extra security they requested?

[pphilfran]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-request-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/?cmpid=prn_aol&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D226394

Former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods was part of a small team who was at the CIA annex about a mile from the U.S. consulate where Ambassador Chris Stevens and his team came under attack. When he and others heard the shots fired, they informed their higher-ups at the annex to tell them what they were hearing and requested permission to go to the consulate and help out. They were told to "stand down," according to sources familiar with the exchange. Soon after, they were again told to "stand down."


Woods and at least two others ignored those orders and made their way to the consulate which at that point was on fire. Shots were exchanged. The rescue team from the CIA annex evacuated those who remained at the consulate and Sean Smith, who had been killed in the initial attack. They could not find the ambassador and returned to the CIA annex at about midnight.


At that point, they called again for military support and help because they were taking fire at the CIA safe house, or annex. The request was denied. There were no communications problems at the annex, according those present at the compound. The team was in constant radio contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when mortars were fired at the CIA compound. The security officer had a laser on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support from a Spectre gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-request-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/?cmpid=prn_aol&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D226394#ix zz2ASc1TniR

[FaninAma]

Fanin:

It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback this thing but none of us were there. I have no idea what assets they had available and how long it would take them to deploy those assets. I suspect the Blackhawk down scenario was still firmly in their mind. I would prefer to read the actual findings instead of watching some political witch hunt.


They asked for help. Three times. Over 6 hours. There is no way you will convince most Americans that NO help should have been sent. That's not the way this country operates.

This will not end well for Obama whether he is re-elected or not. Hilliary's political career is over. I actually think we will see recriminations within the Democratic party that will damage it for yearrs much like Watergate did the Republicans. People are absolutely outraged at the so-called CiC.

[jk the sooner fan]

this shouldnt be a partisan thing

4 americans died a horrible death and people are conveniently ignoring facts because they're afraid it might hurt their party politically

it's disgusting

[sappstuf]

We had a **** load of marines on the wall at Camp Bastion and the Taliban managed to Kill VMA-211's commanding officer, another Marine KIA, 8 wounded and Six Harriers destroyed. They did this with a force smaller than the one that attacked the US compound in Libya. They had the element of surprise which is a huge advantage.

Camp Bastion is a British base and the perimeter security was being supplied by the Brits. The QRF was British. So your main point is completely wrong.

You are also comparing one of the largest bases in Afghanistan with a huge perimeter to a small consulate compound. It is a completely apples to oranges comparison.

But you didn't answer my question. Do you think that if we had Marines on the wall, which we should have, instead of untrained Libyans it wouldn't have made a difference??

[diverdog]

They asked for help. Three times. Over 6 hours. There is no way you will convince most Americans that NO help should have been sent. That's not the way this country operates.

This will not end well for Obama whether he is re-elected or not. Hilliary's political career is over. I actually think we will see recriminations within the Democratic party that will damage it for yearrs much like Watergate did the Republicans. People are absolutely outraged at the so-called CiC.

Fanin:

Give me just one example, just one where we have sent our military in on a rescue in another country on a completely unplanned rescue/mission. I cannot think of a single example.

[diverdog]

Camp Bastion is a British base and the perimeter security was being supplied by the Brits. The QRF was British. So your main point is completely wrong.

You are also comparing one of the largest bases in Afghanistan with a huge perimeter to a small consulate compound. It is a completely apples to oranges comparison.

But you didn't answer my question. Do you think that if we had Marines on the wall, which we should have, instead of untrained Libyans it wouldn't have made a difference??

No, I do not think it would have made a difference. I think we would have a lot more dead. This thing reeks of Somolia. It is not a stretch to think they could have been fighting half of Benghazi. That is why I keep asking what is the reason he was there in the first place.

So you do not think the Brits are capable of defending themselves? And wasn't the attack on the US side of the base? My point is not moot because it shows that any well planned surprise attack can carry very deadly results for our forces. If the news storires that are now coming out are correct our guys faced some pretty battle harden men who were operationally very good.

[diverdog]

this shouldnt be a partisan thing

4 americans died a horrible death and people are conveniently ignoring facts because they're afraid it might hurt their party politically

it's disgusting

I also think people are playing with the facts to help their party.

What pisses me off is all this anti government bull **** that just gets thrown out there. I seriosly doubt that anyone in our government wanted to see those men die. I seriously doubt that the Pentegon was not scrambling to figure out a way to get help and finally came to the conclusion that a rescue mission would make a bad situation worse. Americans have some unrealistic expectations on what we can and can't do. Our military does not go in and level cities or disregard civilian casualties. We fight in a very constrained way and because of this we are overly cautious. I am not saying I agree with this but those are the facts of modern US warfare and it has been pretty much SOP for US forces since Vietnam and this policy has carried on through both Democratic and Republican administrations. It is not going to change because we care about how we are viewed in the rest of the world.

I think this is a very reasonable response from the Pentagon.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/26/panetta-on-benghazi-attack-could-not-put-forces-at-risk/?hpt=hp_bn2

[sappstuf]

Please, oh please, let this be some kind of sick joke or prank:



The father of one of the former Navy SEALs killed in the terrorist attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya says President Barack Obama wouldn’t even look him in the eye and Vice President Joe Biden was disrespectful during the ceremony when his son’s body returned to America. He also says the White House’s story on the attack doesn’t pass the smell test.

Charles Woods, father of Tyrone Woods, called into “The Glenn Beck Program” on TheBlazeTV Thursday and recounted his interactions with the president, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Biden at the ceremony for the Libya victims at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland. He told host Glenn Beck that what they told him, coupled with new reports that indicate the Obama administration knew very good and well, almost immediately, that a terrorist attack was occurring in Benghazi, make him certain that the American people are not getting the whole truth.

Vice President Biden, as he has become known to do, reportedly made a wildly inappropriate comment to the father who had just lost his hero son.

Woods said Biden came over to his family and asked in a “loud and boisterous” voice, “Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?”


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/joe-biden-to-father-of-former-navy-seal-killed-in-benghazi-did-your-son-always-have-balls-the-size-of-cue-balls/

This quote about Joe sums it up:


Just about the only formal responsibility a vice president has is to attend funerals without embarrassing his country. And this preening buffoon of pseudo-blue-collar faux-machismo couldn’t even manage that.

[olevetonahill]

Fanin:

It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback this thing but none of us were there. I have no idea what assets they had available and how long it would take them to deploy those assets. I suspect the Blackhawk down scenario was still firmly in their mind. I would prefer to read the actual findings instead of watching some political witch hunt.

Americans Died, Obammy did Nothing
End of ****ing STORY.

[olevetonahill]

Fanin:

Give me just one example, just one where we have sent our military in on a rescue in another country on a completely unplanned rescue/mission. I cannot think of a single example.

DD. Got a question

Say you are talking on the Phone for 6 hours er so to yer wife who is in a Foreign country and some one Breaks in threatening yer family? There is a Large Mob and they can easily overwhelm a small army .

You Dont Know WHO to call so you
A. Do Nothing?
B . Do nothing and just ignore her
C. Do every thing in your Power to get her help and Rescue her?


I thot so.

[sappstuf]

No, I do not think it would have made a difference. I think we would have a lot more dead. This thing reeks of Somolia. It is not a stretch to think they could have been fighting half of Benghazi. That is why I keep asking what is the reason he was there in the first place.

So you do not think the Brits are capable of defending themselves? And wasn't the attack on the US side of the base? My point is not moot because it shows that any well planned surprise attack can carry very deadly results for our forces. If the news storires that are now coming out are correct our guys faced some pretty battle harden men who were operationally very good.

"We"? Who's side are you on? There would have been a lot more dead terrorists..

As to your first part that it would have made no difference, you are completely insane. There was no subterfuge in the attack. It was a straightforward complex* attack on a defensive position. To say that the Marines would have been quickly overrun and then fled like the Libyans did is quite silly. I truly hope you don't actually believe that.

A couple of the CIA operatives fought off the insurgents for hours with no support.. I'm doubting the terrorists were actually that operationally good they only got a good result for them because the Libyan security force fled and allowed the compound to be overrun. I would take 40-50 Marines to wipe them out any day of the week. That you don't is somewhat surprising and lot sad.

*Complex meaning direct and indirect fire.

[Harry Beanbag]

Diverdog thinks everyone should have just surrendered in face of those overpowering "battle hardened men". :rolleyes:

The sight of people still trying to defend the blatant inaction for months, not just the 7 hours during this attack is sickening, especially to anyone who has served. The thought that we could have been abandoned to our death while defending the U.S. and our brothers and then have the President flat out lie through his teeth to the American people about it is absolutely terrifying. They knew exactly what was happening, knew exactly how long it was going on, knew what assets were within a relatively short amount of time away and still did as much as my toy poodle did about it. That is unforgiveable and people need to go to ****ing prison for it.

[olevetonahill]

Harry , He never heard of the RRF

[diverdog]

"We"? Who's side are you on? There would have been a lot more dead terrorists..

As to your first part that it would have made no difference, you are completely insane. There was no subterfuge in the attack. It was a straightforward complex* attack on a defensive position. To say that the Marines would have been quickly overrun and then fled like the Libyans did is quite silly. I truly hope you don't actually believe that.

A couple of the CIA operatives fought off the insurgents for hours with no support.. I'm doubting the terrorists were actually that operationally good they only got a good result for them because the Libyan security force fled and allowed the compound to be overrun. I would take 40-50 Marines to wipe them out any day of the week. That you don't is somewhat surprising and lot sad.

*Complex meaning direct and indirect fire.

Sapp:

Your first statement is totally uncalled for. Of course I mean Americans.

Secondly, you have absolutely no idea what forces the terrorist had in the area. We are now hearing about AQ training camps. Did you for one second consider with more Marines the enemy may have used multiple suicide car bomb attacks. I am pretty sure you saw what happened when our Marines were hit in Beruit or what McVey did in OKC or the dozens of bombings we have endured in Iraq or Afghanistan. One truck bomb and that compound is breached. Maybe more Marines would have made the difference. However this attacks size and scope on a US consulate/embassy is something that is out of the ordinary and I doubt we would have put 50 marines there in the first place.

Thirdly, I am going to tell you something you may have not heard. There is a company in Dover called ILC. They make all the space suits for NASA, some of the best chem warfare mask in the world ( designed with Israeli help) and fire emergency evacuation pull over mask. They just received a huge order to outfit all US outpost with the new pull over fire proof breathing units. There is a lot of evidence that Stevens was disabled, overcome, or dead from the fumes from the fires.



Again, the more I read the more I am convinced that we should not have been in Benghazi.

[diverdog]

Diverdog thinks everyone should have just surrendered in face of those overpowering "battle hardened men". :rolleyes:

The sight of people still trying to defend the blatant inaction for months, not just the 7 hours during this attack is sickening, especially to anyone who has served. The thought that we could have been abandoned to our death while defending the U.S. and our brothers and then have the President flat out lie through his teeth to the American people about it is absolutely terrifying. They knew exactly what was happening, knew exactly how long it was going on, knew what assets were within a relatively short amount of time away and still did as much as my toy poodle did about it. That is unforgiveable and people need to go to ****ing prison for it.

Do you know how long it takes to get a crew together, pre-flight an AC-130 and get it on target? We did not have crews on alpha alert and I would doubt they would have been loaded with ammo. Even a SOLL II crew from a dead cold start has two to three hours of pre- flight before they can go. If they get there they have no FAC on the ground to direct fire. From what the Pentegon is saying there was no quick reaction force that could have gotten there quickly. The only team that arrived from what I understand was on a commercial plane. Again, I want any you guys on this board give me just one example...just one where US forces mounted a civilian rescue in the middle of direct fire on foreign lands in 6 hours. I cannot think of one instance that we have ever done something like that.

As a side when we did the airdrop into Grenada we had days to get ready and plan. Look how many we lost just to accidental deaths in that action.

[jk the sooner fan]

diverdog needs to change his name to "lapdog"

cia operatives were in the area and wanted to help - they were told to stand down- so this whole "we didnt have time to gather any kind of response that would have been timely or helpful" is pure unadulterated bull****

help is help....when your *** is hanging out in the wind - you take what you can get in hopes of being able to survive

[C&CDean]

Dude, from where I sit it looks/sounds like you're on board with the lying **********s who are still trying to claim that these POS terrorists did what they did cause of some video they probably never even saw. I'm pretty sure that's what most of the people on here arguing/insulting you are hacked about. You keep bringing up minutia that does NOT have anything to do with the whole point here. The point is the administration lied, continues to lie, and a bunch of folks like you continue to support them. WTF?

[olevetonahill]

From what Ive read, there was a Seal Team with in a Mile, Are you saying they are Not prepared?
Also, The biggest issue Im having with you on this is your stance that "There wasnt MUCH we could do , so lets Not even try"
Im my most sincere " **** off Dip ****"

There is NO excuse to NOT even try.

You dont sit around and Let yer Peeps DIE .

[XingTheRubicon]

Diver, you're better than this.

[diverdog]

Dude, from where I sit it looks/sounds like you're on board with the lying **********s who are still trying to claim that these POS terrorists did what they did cause of some video they probably never even saw. I'm pretty sure that's what most of the people on here arguing/insulting you are hacked about. You keep bringing up minutia that does NOT have anything to do with the whole point here. The point is the administration lied, continues to lie, and a bunch of folks like you continue to support them. WTF?

Dean:

Read the original post from wasp:


So why the repeatedpretense of the the violence having anything to do with the video? <shrug>

I was merely answering his question that in the hours after the attack that was what everyone thought and given all the violence over the video it was a reasonable assumption. Even the CIA breifings the President received said as much. We now know it was a 9/11 event. I agree with that assessment.

[diverdog]

From what Ive read, there was a Seal Team with in a Mile, Are you saying they are Not prepared?
Also, The biggest issue Im having with you on this is your stance that "There wasnt MUCH we could do , so lets Not even try"
Im my most sincere " **** off Dip ****"

There is NO excuse to NOT even try.

You dont sit around and Let yer Peeps DIE .

I have not heard there was a SEAL team in the area. The CIA had operatives about a mile away who were also under attack.

You guys have the advantage of Monday morning quarterbacking this attack. Our men and women at DOD and CIA were completely blindsided by this. They probably had no idea what assets they had in the area until they got briefed. Seven hours is an extremely short time for us to mount a rescue mission.

And again since none of you have answered me or given me one example where mounted a mission in a foreign land with a compound under direct fire in seven hours and got everyone out alive. I cannot think of one case. I just do not think we even train for such a scenario.

[olevetonahill]

I have not heard there was a SEAL team in the area. The CIA had operatives about a mile away who were also under attack.

You guys have the advantage of Monday morning quarterbacking this attack. Our men and women at DOD and CIA were completely blindsided by this. They probably had no idea what assets they had in the area until they got briefed. Seven hours is an extremely short time for us to mount a rescue mission.

And again since none of you have answered me give me one example where mounted a mission in a foreign land with a compound under direct fire in seven hours and got everyone out alive. I cannot think of one case. I just do not think we even train for such a scenario.

Im sorry but I think you are way the **** off on this
I DGAS who knew what when or where.
I do Care that YOU seem ready to just write off our Peeps , because you cant think of a time it was ever tried

[jk the sooner fan]

reasonable assumption my ***

jeebus thats just 40 kinds of stupid

[cleller]

You guys have the advantage of Monday morning quarterbacking this attack. Our men and women at DOD and CIA were completely blindsided by this. They probably had no idea what assets they had in the area until they got briefed. Seven hours is an extremely short time for us to mount a rescue mission.

And again since none of you have answered me or given me one example where mounted a mission in a foreign land with a compound under direct fire in seven hours and got everyone out alive. I cannot think of one case. I just do not think we even train for such a scenario.

I can't imagine how the DOD and CIA could be blindsided by an attack in Libya on 9-11. It seems like an all too likely scenario. They couldn't have never imagined it.
If you listen to the former Special Ops officer that called in to Rush Limbaugh (may be on the other thread) its clear they do train for this, and are prepared to leave quickly, within 5 minutes. There is a team present in North Africa ready for such emergencies. That also seems to be a no-brainer in this part of the world. As for other rescue missions, the evacuation of the embassy in Vietnam was carried out on a much larger scale successfully. Here's one recently done in Afghanistan:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/11/military_air_rescue_110708WEB/
and another:
http://news.yahoo.com/two-harrowing-us-military-rescues-offer-haunting-portrait-190800491.html
and here's one even more recently in Africa
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-forces-rescue-kidnapped-aid-workers-jessica-buchanan-and-poul-hagen-thisted-in-somalia/2012/01/25/gIQA7WopPQ_story.html

So, obviously we do train for these type missions, and have successfully pulled them off a few times very recently.

The big issue is the decision from above, most likely Obama himself, to sacrifice the lives of these people, and do nothing, while watching them die in real-time.

[LiveLaughLove]

Obama and his team screwed the pooch and people died.

The old "Bush lied and people died" was a political BS refrain.

This one is accurate.

Obama is lying about people dying.

May have been mentioned but a caller to Rush's show yesterday identifying himself as a Lt. Colonel in Special Ops for 15 years said there had to be a "negative" command to not go in and save our guys. The SOP would be to actually go in and save them.

Someone had to give the order to NOT go in and that someone had to be either Africom or the POTUS.

This guy was very credible sounding. I'm sure our lib constituency will disagree since they can't even bring themselves to admit what is blatantly obvious.

There is also word, but not verified yet, that they (our Benghazi operators) were painting the target (the bad guys). They wouldn't have been doing so if they didn't know or at least expect for a gunship or drone to be there to see it.

[LiveLaughLove]

Hillary Clinton told the father of one of the slain former SEALs that they would make sure the filmmaker was prosecuted and put away.

what? and what?

She violates the first amendment and lies to this father to his face as he is honoring his son?

Biden crudely asks him if his son always had balls the size of cue balls. Does he think we all live in his gutter? The lack of sensitivity is breath taking.

I'm not a bravado guy, but I would have had to have been restrained from not slapping him until he pissed his pants. The father showed great restraint.

As someone noted, the one job a VP has is to go to funerals and represent our country. He is a big fail even in that.

Biden is one brain cell from being a drooling blubbering mass of flesh. Clinton and Obama are calculating incompetent liars.

We need this guy gone. January can't get here soon enough.

[Harry Beanbag]

You guys have the advantage of Monday morning quarterbacking this attack. Our men and women at DOD and CIA were completely blindsided by this. They probably had no idea what assets they had in the area until they got briefed.

Bull****. There were probing attacks on the consulate in April and June of this year. It is their job to know what assets are in place around the globe at any given time. And then there is this:


American diplomats were warned of possible violent unrest in Benghazi three days before the killings of US Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three members of his team, Libyan security officials say.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/libya-we-gave-us-threeday-warning-of-benghazi-attack-8145242.html

[diverdog]

I have to bail on you guys. I will wait for all the investigations to finish and final reports issued. It seems some of the Fox News reports are not accurate. Anyway, I have to help with an Eagle Scout Project and then get ready for TS Sandy. It looks like we are going to get smacked pretty hard. I need to get the generator out and fire it up and secure a bunch of chit. Will keep everyone posted.

[olevetonahill]

I have to bail on you guys. I will wait for all the investigations to finish and final reports issued. It seems some of the Fox News reports are not accurate. Anyway, I have to help with an Eagle Scout Project and then get ready for TS Sandy. It looks like we are going to get smacked pretty hard. I need to get the generator out and fire it up and secure a bunch of chit. Will keep everyone posted.

Be Safe, If Ya need help Call Obammy.Im sure he will come running to rescue you .

[ouwasp]

I just wanted to say I appreciate you fellows and your insight. Thanks for all of your responses.

Even diver. The young man gave us some BHO food for thought, as bizarre as some of it is. Let's us know how they see the world, how they make/don't make decisions. Interesting to see how their wheels turn.

I hope diver and his fellow easterners stay safe during Sandy.

[soonercruiser]

diverdog probably thinks OJ was innocent

Diver was on OJ's jury!
Now I understand....

Diver has lost any credibility that/if he had any.
Anyone who is seeking the truth and has half a brain knows that if the WH National Security folks were watching in real times.....FOR HOURS!!!!....and the real men on the scene....the former SEALS, CIA agents in Tripoli, made the trip to aid their brothers in arms, save d many lives, and where the ones who asked for help. And the weasel Panetta says we don't send our troops into harm's way????? GMAFB! That is their job.

To be Diver's "brother in arms", you have to be a died in the wool Demoncrat!

[soonercruiser]

Sapp:

Your first statement is totally uncalled for. Of course I mean Americans.

Secondly, you have absolutely no idea what forces the terrorist had in the area. We are now hearing about AQ training camps. Did you for one second consider with more Marines the enemy may have used multiple suicide car bomb attacks. I am pretty sure you saw what happened when our Marines were hit in Beruit or what McVey did in OKC or the dozens of bombings we have endured in Iraq or Afghanistan. One truck bomb and that compound is breached. Maybe more Marines would have made the difference. However this attacks size and scope on a US consulate/embassy is something that is out of the ordinary and I doubt we would have put 50 marines there in the first place.

Thirdly, I am going to tell you something you may have not heard. There is a company in Dover called ILC. They make all the space suits for NASA, some of the best chem warfare mask in the world ( designed with Israeli help) and fire emergency evacuation pull over mask. They just received a huge order to outfit all US outpost with the new pull over fire proof breathing units. There is a lot of evidence that Stevens was disabled, overcome, or dead from the fumes from the fires.

Again, the more I read the more I am convinced that we should not have been in Benghazi.

Diver,
This last sentence has been your only reasonable statement in this whole exchange.
The administration knew the danger, and did not beef up security when other countries and the Red Cross had already left.

There is another emerging story by a FOX investigative reporter that despite the dangerous situation, the Ambassador may have been there to secretly meet with some officials from Turkey, dealing with arms shipments to Syria.

[Skysooner]

Diver,
This last sentence has been your only reasonable statement in this whole exchange.
The administration knew the danger, and did not beef up security when other countries and the Red Cross had already left.

There is another emerging story by a FOX investigative reporter that despite the dangerous situation, the Ambassador may have been there to secretly meet with some officials from Turkey, dealing with arms shipments to Syria.

Hmm and Bush ignored evidence that we were about to be attacked by suicidal Muslims who could fly planes. What is your point? People eff up all the time and yet you have are pushing this stupidity. The administration effed up for sure. There is zero evidence that Obama was the one responsible. Decisions like this are made down the line as you should know if you were in the military as you claim. 3 people were killed and not the thousands in both 9/11 and the wars that Bush started.

[Harry Beanbag]

I knew we'd get around to it eventually. It's Bush's fault. :rolleyes:

[Breadburner]

What the media is not doing about this is ****in disgusting.....!!

[sappstuf]

Chris Wallace asked a Dem this morning on if the drones over Benghazi were armed... He refused to answer.