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landrun
10/18/2012, 11:55 AM
I'm not being partisan here, I know this happens on both sides of the fence.

I'll just say that when the government steals money from the tax payer, gives it to a corporation, who then takes that tax money and donates it back to the politician's campaign, that is the height of corruption!

I also think that any company, organization or person who gets cash from the government, should be prohibited from donating money to politicians! Any of the them.

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/battery-makers-beltway-power-play



Troubled battery maker won private meeting and phone call with Obama, a trade mission slot and $250 million in stimulus money before it went bankrupt

Even as advanced battery maker A123 Systems struggled for financial viability, it played the Washington insider game, where political money and access go hand in hand.

The Massachusetts firm dished out nearly $1 million to hire a powerhouse lobbying firm with close ties to President Barack Obama between 2007 and 2009, and two of its top executives made personal donations to several high-profile Democrats in Congress as it won federal funding for its efforts to build the next generation of lithium batteries for electric vehicles.

And its president and CEO, David Vieau, an early financial backer of President Barack Obama, scored five invitations to the White House in 2009 and 2010, including a meeting he attended with the president, White House logs show. And when the company opened a new Michigan plant, Obama made a high-profile call to congratulate.

The company offered a compelling storyline for an administration eager to create jobs and spur alternative energy: it would employ hundreds of new workers at two plants in the politically critical state of Michigan that was hoping to revive its lagging auto industry.

The efforts paid off.

The company managed to get several lawmakers in both parties to support its request for federal funding, securing almost $6 million during the end of the Bush administration and then a $250 million grant from the American Recovery and Reconstruction Act after Obama took office.

A123's stimulus grant accounted for 12.5 percent of the stimulus' $2 billion fund to support the manufacturing of advanced electrical vehicle components, making it one of the biggest beneficiaries among 29 companies that split the momney.

And the firm scored a spot on a 2011 Obama administration's trade mission to India, a country hungry for alternative energy technologies. The trip put A123 in elite company as just one of only about 300 American companies to get invited on a trade mission during Obama's first term in office.

The company drew praise from both sides of the aisle, including from Samuel Bodman, Bush's Energy secretary, and from Obama himself who called the firm's new Michigan plant when it opened Sept. 13, 2010 and even boasted how he had met with Vieau personally at the White House.

"You guys are making us proud," the president said. "The work you’re doing will help power the American economy for years to come."

But all the promise and political influence couldn't overcome the realities of a startup industry. And when electric vehicle sales lagged and the firm had to replace defective cells in a battery it made for a Fisker electric car, the company teetered toward collapse.

By the time it filed for bankruptcy Tuesday -- the fourth major clean energy company backed by the Obama administration to fail -- it had already collected more than half the taxpayer money it had won from the stimulus. And it reignited an election-year debate over the government's screening process for picking clean energy loan and grant recipients.

Republicans and Democrats immediately traded barbs from Michigan to Washington, a process certain to play out for several days as the merits of government support for the clean energy sector remains a hot topic of debate. The GOP jumped at the chance to portray the company as a failed pet project of the Obama administration, but as reported by the Washington Guardian, several Republican lawmakers have been advocates for cleaner car technology, including current Michigan Senate candidate Pete Hoekstra.

Whatever the arguments in the election, the company's efforts to win political influence are undisputed.

Senate lobbying records show A123 hired the powerhouse lobbying firm of Skadden Arps, paying it $380,000 in 2007, $480,000 in 2008 and $110,000 in 2009 to help it secure government backing. The firm has connections across the lobbying company, including four lawyers who served as fundraising bundlers for Obama's 2008 election. Lobbyist Leslie Goldman - the Energy Assistant Secretary for International Affairs under President Jimmy Carter - handled A123's lobbying, disclosure records show.

Among the company's early accomplishments was getting several members of Congress to support its case for federal funding.

Inside the White House, A123's Vieau won invitations to several events, including at least one meeting with President George W. Bush to show off the company's technology in 2007. More recently, the CEO was invited to at least five events or meetings in 2009 and 2010 at the Obama White House, attending at least three of them. One was a small meeting with just seven people and Obama on April 30, 2010, the White House visitor logs show.

Obama referenced the meeting when he called the company's new factory a few months later. "I met with David and some of the A123 team here at the White House back in April, and it’s incredibly exciting to see how far you guys have come since we announced these grants just over a year ago," the president said.

White House spokesman Eric Schultz did not return repeated calls and emails seeking comment Wednesday.

Vieau was an early supporter of Obama, donating $2,300 to the then-senator’s 2008 campaign. His generosity to Democrats continued. He donated a total of $5,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee between 2010 and 2011; $2,000 to Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry in 2010; and since 2009 almost $5,000 to Rep. Edward Markey, who represents Massachusetts’s 7th district near the company's headquarters, according to Federal Election Commission donation records.

One of the company’s vice presidents, Mujeeb Ijaz, also made some donations, chiefly $2,300 this year to Rep. Gary Peters, a Democrat in Michigan where the company has two plants,including one producing lithium batteries for cars. Peters was one of 17 Michigan members of Congress who wrote a letter to Energy Secretary Steven Chu in 2009, advocating that some Recovery Act money be given to A123 to support job growth in the state.

yermom
10/18/2012, 01:16 PM
corporations are people and money is just speech, what is the problem?

Soonerjeepman
10/18/2012, 01:17 PM
all your going to get is "support from BOTH sides"..so the libs will say it's as much the pub's fault as obama's. When prob in reality the pub's votes were prob paybacks from the dem's helping them out.

but def agree about if you get money from the gov you don't give to campaigns.

I agree they all or most of them are corrupt.

Turd_Ferguson
10/18/2012, 01:24 PM
corporations are people and money is just speech, what is the problem?
Are you high...again?

yermom
10/18/2012, 01:39 PM
Are you high...again?

i'm with McCain on this one.

(not the high part)

and, contrary to popular belief, i'm probably one of the least altered people you'd meet

KantoSooner
10/18/2012, 01:42 PM
I could go for a ban of that nature. For one thing, it would prevent the disgusting merry-go-round of government union employees getting wage increases, then giving money back to the people who gave them the increases, who in turn, give them more, and then get more back, endlessly. While the people paying the bills are isolated from the process.

Let's make the unions and the corporations who receive government money incapable of donating to any political cause. If their members or employees want to as individuals, fine, but the organizations can't touch the process.

Unions or corporations not receiving such funds continue to be able to donate as per now.

BigTip
10/18/2012, 02:35 PM
I'm sure you can find examples of this from both parties. That is how Pork works. I give you money, you vote and contribute to me. It's been around for a long time. Even when it is for a state, and not an individual, it's the same thing. "I had that power plant built in your district. Reward me with your vote."
The thing is that there have been several recent big examples from the Democrats. "Green Pork". I loved that when Romney used it in the first debate. I had not heard that expression before then.

OU_Sooners75
10/18/2012, 02:49 PM
I'm with Kanto on this.

Make illegal, period, for companies and unions and special interest groups to pay any federal politician for lobbying or donating to their campaign.

Then limit of how much an individual can donate to a politicians campaign. Limit it to say $2500. And all campaigns must show all donations of more than $5.

Politics is apparently a illegal corrpution cess pool.

KantoSooner
10/18/2012, 03:04 PM
75, Citizens United, made donations political speech. You're not going to get that overturned. On the other hand, you might be able to carve out an exception for corps, and other orgs getting their money from the government to start with. It would be an interesting thing to try as many of the corps that would be banned would be big players, like Boeing. And many of the unions would be among the biggest. It would starve the parties of a LOT of their money.
That alone would be nifty to see.

cleller
10/18/2012, 03:25 PM
Corporations getting direct cash payments from the government is a slippery damn slope. Bailouts are iffy. Stimulus is downright full of graft.

Killerbees
10/18/2012, 03:27 PM
I'm not being partisan here, I know this happens on both sides of the fence.

I'll just say that when the government steals money from the tax payer, gives it to a corporation, who then takes that tax money and donates it back to the politician's campaign, that is the height of corruption!

I also think that any company, organization or person who gets cash from the government, should be prohibited from donating money to politicians! Any of the them.

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/battery-makers-beltway-power-play

You cant come in here starting posts that put forth ridiculous claims like this about both parties being corrupt. It will just confuse people and detract from all the bashing that goes on. What the hell were you thinking.

StoopTroup
10/18/2012, 05:12 PM
75, Citizens United, made donations political speech. You're not going to get that overturned. On the other hand, you might be able to carve out an exception for corps, and other orgs getting their money from the government to start with. It would be an interesting thing to try as many of the corps that would be banned would be big players, like Boeing. And many of the unions would be among the biggest. It would starve the parties of a LOT of their money.
That alone would be nifty to see.

If you think the money Unions give is even close to what Corporations give....you are crazy. At least the Unions represent a good portion of those workers who give money from their paychecks to the Candidate they support. Those that aren't Democrat can still form their own PAC and give to whoever they want.

I'm not so crazy about making it illegal....I just think if everyone was limited as to how much they could give per candidate it would be easier to fix rather repealing the SCOTUS decision. For instance...

A Union is made up of the people in it....the Union (who is not a person) should be able to give the max per person who have given them money for the Party they Represent. Each Candidate should have a name and every Candidate should be limited to how much they can receive from each person in said Union.

Since Corporations are people....they get to give the maximum of one person per candidate. The people in the Corporation are individuals just like the corporation. They can give to candidates too but not through the corporation as it is it's own person.

:D

OU_Sooners75
10/18/2012, 05:21 PM
If you think the money Unions give is even close to what Corporations give....you are crazy. At least the Unions represent a good portion of those workers who give money from their paychecks to the Candidate they support. Those that aren't Democrat can still form their own PAC and give to whoever they want.

I'm not so crazy about making it illegal....I just think if everyone was limited as to how much they could give per candidate it would be easier to fix rather repealing the SCOTUS decision. For instance...

A Union is made up of the people in it....the Union (who is not a person) should be able to give the max per person who have given them money for the Party they Represent. Each Candidate should have a name and every Candidate should be limited to how much they can receive from each person in said Union.

Since Corporations are people....they get to give the maximum of one person per candidate. The people in the Corporation are individuals just like the corporation. They can give to candidates too but not through the corporation as it is it's own person.



A union may not be a business, but it is an organization.

As such, they getg treated as one.

Anyway, I think there should be cap at best. But would love to see business and unions and special interest groups out of the equation when talking about campaign contributions.

MountainOkie
10/18/2012, 05:42 PM
Okay. So who's going to stop the corruption? Politicians?

Good luck with that. Hahahahahaha! :)

soonercruiser
10/18/2012, 11:29 PM
Yup! More skimulus $$ going back to Obama!
:torn:

MamaMia
10/18/2012, 11:45 PM
Holy Smokes! 250 mil is A LOT of money.

The majority of..."We, the people," have been begging the government to get busy enacting some campaign reform. It'll never happen

The majority of "We, the people," want term limits. It'll never happen.

MamaMia
10/19/2012, 12:16 AM
The American people have never liked the idea of politicians getting life long percs that are paid for with our money, just for serving one term, but that will never change. How many jobs out there continue to pay benefits after you've been terminated? US Representatives and Senators have given themselves full retirement equal to their salary of around $150,000.00 and up per year, for life, after one term in office. In addition, they keep their government paid for private health insurance, an office, franking privileges for life. Pretty sweet deal, huh? Then the pay raise thing. They can just vote themselves a pay raise. What company do you know of where the employees get together and have a vote to give themselves a raise? They should make a proposal and we should vote on that every 4 years.



Politicians only care enough about serving us to get re-elected.

hawaii 5-0
10/19/2012, 12:18 AM
Kinda makes one want to run for office.

Yeah, gimme somma that.

5-0

StoopTroup
10/19/2012, 12:47 AM
Holy Smokes! 250 mil is A LOT of money.

The majority of..."We, the people," have been begging the government to get busy enacting some campaign reform. It'll never happen

The majority of "We, the people," want term limits. It'll never happen.

Not with that attitude.

You do remember....the limit of terms a POTUS could have went to three once and it was changed to limit it to two. If that didn't have teeth to make it stay at two....there have been plenty of guys who could have tried for three since FDR's third Term was enough to change the POTUS term to two and NEVER three. "Never" sure is a long time.

KantoSooner
10/19/2012, 08:37 AM
ST, you have far more faith in the honor of union bosses than I do. I'd still go with the ban on donations from any org that gets money from the government.

StoopTroup
10/19/2012, 12:21 PM
What Union Bosses?

Kanto....have you ever worked for anyone?

okie52
10/19/2012, 12:32 PM
Not with that attitude.

You do remember....the limit of terms a POTUS could have went to three once and it was changed to limit it to two. If that didn't have teeth to make it stay at two....there have been plenty of guys who could have tried for three since FDR's third Term was enough to change the POTUS term to two and NEVER three. "Never" sure is a long time.

FDR was elected to 4 terms and died early in the 4th term.

StoopTroup
10/19/2012, 12:35 PM
FDR was elected to 4 terms and died early in the 4th term.
Thanks for making my point....

Following his death, the 22nd amendment (1951) established a Constitutional limit of two elected terms.

It also effectively established the maximum that any future US President may serve to 10 years.

okie52
10/19/2012, 12:37 PM
Thanks for making my point....

Just correcting your "facts"....could be a full time job.

Turd_Ferguson
10/19/2012, 12:52 PM
Just correcting your "facts"....could be a full time job.

ROFL!

KantoSooner
10/19/2012, 02:46 PM
What Union Bosses?

Kanto....have you ever worked for anyone?

No, I bootstrapped myself up from panning for gold in wilderness rivers before they were annexed by the USA. Lol. Yes, I've worked for several companies over the course of a checquered career.

In one or two of those, I was required to join a union. Never saw a union rep. Never had a union meeting. Was never asked by anyone at the union for anything other than my dues. And those my employer had to deduct from my salary and send on to the union. I presume, though I must admit I don't know for sure, that someone was running the union and controlling who he ladelled out the money to. It sure wasn't me. That person I would label 'the union boss'.
I don't recall ever seeing mention of anytime a union membership was asked how they wanted political donations from the union to be made.

StoopTroup
10/19/2012, 06:11 PM
No, I bootstrapped myself up from panning for gold in wilderness rivers before they were annexed by the USA. Lol. Yes, I've worked for several companies over the course of a checquered career.

In one or two of those, I was required to join a union. Never saw a union rep. Never had a union meeting. Was never asked by anyone at the union for anything other than my dues. And those my employer had to deduct from my salary and send on to the union. I presume, though I must admit I don't know for sure, that someone was running the union and controlling who he ladelled out the money to. It sure wasn't me. That person I would label 'the union boss'.
I don't recall ever seeing mention of anytime a union membership was asked how they wanted political donations from the union to be made.

Maybe you should have attended a meeting or gotten involved. It's OK if you felt like not doing that as it's not easy to give of your free time for something you don't believe in or think did anything for you. You did walk into a negotiated work place though and in doing so accepted the benefits as well as the pitfalls.

I've never had a better job than one that I worked on Commission where I was able to work as hard as I wanted and as long as I wanted and that the hard work I did paid off in bigger paychecks most every time. When they didn't it was just months that typically were down months and you needed to prepare for those the same as anyone that would make a living in Heat and Air for instance or Mowing Yards and/or doing Landscaping.

I worked mostly non-union jobs until 1995. It was when I was older and a heck of a lot smarter that they didn't hire very many youngsters as they wanted people who were more than just skilled...they wanted people that knew how to save them money as well as produce.

I never was forced to give to the Democratic or Republican Party either. There was a way to give money out of your paycheck for a Union Political lobbying that benefited Union Workers. There was also a way to support Company programs like United Way that supported anyone that United Way could help through their many services. There was time set aside where we could give blood to the Red Cross which benefited our local Blood Banks that even non-union Americans could count on there being life saving liquid that pumps through all our veins.

I know many folks think Unions offer nothing. They are just uniformed or to lazy too look or just closed minded of the many that do and the many that exist that are not a part of running Companies into the ground.

Believe what you want but I have seen good where there is bad in both Union and Non-Union jobs I have worked in my life and I really think that most of the decisions I made throughout my life came from a Company that employed me as a Non-Union Worker and Union Worker. I am very grateful for the benefits I have received from a Company that has survived having both opportunities for their Workers.

If that wasn't your experience...it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in America and it doesn't mean that Unions can't help Companies either. In this case I think it's been a way to keep the Company from being torn into bits like Corporate Raiders have done many times and it's made a decent living for many who worked both sides of it. Getting along does have it's advantages and it's why I think our Country will be better off the next four years without Mitt Romney.

StoopTroup
10/19/2012, 06:17 PM
Just correcting your "facts"....could be a full time job.

Then you need to find a 2nd job. It's just a message board. Maybe you'd be better off in a Religious Forum...Lots of stuff to fact check....lol

BTW...just being an ******* and tossing out snide remarks that neither prove or disprove a point...isn't fact checking. It's just being a sniveling anal **** tosser.

Whet
10/19/2012, 07:00 PM
What Obama's Stimulus companies are doing is what has been going on in Chicago for decades. The corruption factory was expanded nationwide in 2008. The same thing is going on with AARP and Planned Parenthood, too.

StoopTroup
10/19/2012, 08:08 PM
I have been getting mail to join AARP for awhile now. It's like the NRA or Sears. Once they know you are actually alive and you respond in any way, they will send you stuff and call you until you make a donation or buy some siding or a Furnace or A/C for your house or buy a Lifetime subscription and or join the NRA this year and allow them to ask for more and more mail to be sent to your mail box. It's sickening and very much spammish harassment. I wish they would consider that we will send them some dough when we get o feeling that we like their attempts to make things better.

pphilfran
10/19/2012, 08:21 PM
You can actually save some money with an AARP card...I use mine all the time....

hawaii 5-0
10/19/2012, 08:27 PM
You can actually save some money with an AARP card...I use mine all the time....



Such as?

I got one recently.....

5-0

Soonerjeepman
10/19/2012, 09:15 PM
being a teacher I do NOT belong to nea...#1 reason is $65 a paycheck for dues...I have a rider on the house to protect me...IF I was dumb enough to do something to get sued..#2 they "bosses" do NOT ask the members which candidate they would endorse.

okie52
10/20/2012, 04:19 AM
Then you need to find a 2nd job. It's just a message board. Maybe you'd be better off in a Religious Forum...Lots of stuff to fact check....lol

BTW...just being an ******* and tossing out snide remarks that neither prove or disprove a point...isn't fact checking. It's just being a sniveling anal **** tosser.

You mad?

Didn't have to check the "facts" there Einstein...just correcting some of the daily drivel you post on here with what should be common knowledge.

And this is the thanks I get? Tsk, Tsk.