I got a chance to watch the Presidential debate

[MamaMia]

Romney stuttered and stammered a lot. Did he assume this was going to be a cake walk just because Obama was so weak during the 1st debate?

Another thing...I don't know what disgusts me more, the fact that politicians take us for idiots when they're twisting things around and out and out lying, or the fact that there really are a lot of idiots who actually believe that crap.

...and whats up with that Candy chick thinking its okay to step out of the role of commentating and put on her factoid hat?

[hawaii 5-0]

Romney stuttered and stammered a lot. Did he assume this was going to be a cake walk just because Obama was so weak during the 1st debate?

Another thing...I don't know what disgusts me more, the fact that politicians take us for idiots when they're twisting things around and out and out lying, or the fact that there really are a lot of idiots who actually believe that crap.

...and whats up with that Candy chick thinking its okay to step out of the role of commentating and put on her factoid hat?


Could be she's a reporter and knew the truth.

She got tired of the lying and called him on it.

Lehrer two weeks ago was just a plant sitting on the stage.

She showed guts.

BTW, Mama....whaddya think of Romney's refusal to say that women deserved equal pay for equal work?

5-0

[hawaii 5-0]

How does Candy Crowley decide which lie to call Mitt out on?

She put up with the constant interruptions and finally got tired of the constant lying.

Mama, how do you feel about Romney and his Binder of Women?

Wouldn't ya think after being a very successful businessman he would know a few women already?

I could go on and on, but arguing here won't change anyone's views.

I'll just speak my onion and then decide it anything is worth responding to.

Next debate, Romney will just debate the moderator.

5-0

[LiveLaughLove]

Could be she's a reporter and knew the truth.

She got tired of the lying and called him on it.

Lehrer two weeks ago was just a plant sitting on the stage.

She showed guts.

BTW, Mama....whaddya think of Romney's refusal to say that women deserved equal pay for equal work?

5-0

Boy you really see things through liberal glasses.

Her job was moderator, she abused that position and she was wrong on her "fact". She admitted as much after the debate, and said Romney was correct "in the main", whatever that means.

She interrupted ROmney 28 times, Obama 9 times. She let Obama have 5 minutes more of time than Romney. Yeah she was better than Lehrer...to you.

Women already receive equal pay. It's another demagogued myth by liberals that they don't.

The study that says they receive 72% of what men do or whatever the number was, was comparing ALL women to ALL men in ALL jobs. When you compare apples to apples (meaning the same job with the same tenure at that job) they make 95% of what men do. Add in the extra time they take off for family things (like having kids, soccer practice, doctors visits, etc) and the pay is equal if not a little ahead for them.

That Lillie Ledbetter law has only produced 34 lawsuits in the whole nation since it was enacted. 34, in the whole country. Yeah, there was a big need for that. But hey, it looks good on the campaign trail.

BTW, ask Obama why he pays his female staff less than his male staff (something like 80% of what the men make). Ask him why women that have left his administration said its a boys club and women were to be seen and not heard. Ask him why one woman said the place was a work place harassment lawsuit waiting to happen.

[LiveLaughLove]

How does Candy Crowley decide which lie to call Mitt out on?

She put up with the constant interruptions and finally got tired of the constant lying.

Mama, how do you feel about Romney and his Binder of Women?

Wouldn't ya think after being a very successful businessman he would know a few women already?

I could go on and on, but arguing here won't change anyone's views.

I'll just speak my onion and then decide it anything is worth responding to.

Next debate, Romney will just debate the moderator.

5-0

The binder was resumes. I know you know that. I saw the President offer up lie after lie himself.

He is for oil drilling on federal land? really? coal mining? really? natural gas? really?

Isn't it odd that he had to sound like Reagan to try and salvage his presidency? Do you really think he believes any of what he said? I know I don't.

And then invoking of all people George W Bush. That had to make liberal heads spin.

You're boy is losing. Well, he's already lost. He may try a "wag the dog" in Libya, but it won't work. It might make it closer in the end, but he will lose interestingly enough about 53% -47%.

Yeah THAT 47%.

I actually think it could be as high as 55+% for Romney on election day, but I'll stick with 53-47. It's poetic.

[hawaii 5-0]

If what you imply is true, then why didn't Romney say that he favors equal pay for equal work, plain and simple? It woulda been so easy.

BTW, I doubt your 'facts'.

Maybe She interrupted Romney more because he lied more.

They both lied as Politifact has reported. It's just that Romney lied more.

Before the debate the Democrats were complaining that Crowley wouldn't be fair to Obama.

It's always the Losers that complain about the Moderator after a debate. Been that way a long time.

Mailed in another ballot this morning. It wasn't a straight party vote.

As usual I've voted for Republicans lots of times.

Just not for ones that are bigger liars than the Man in Charge right now.

5-0

[LiveLaughLove]

If what you imply is true, then why didn't Romney say that he favors equal pay for equal work, plain and simple? It woulda been so easy.

BTW, I doubt your 'facts'.

Maybe She interrupted Romney more because he lied more.

They both lied as Politifact has reported. It's just that Romney lied more.

Before the debate the Democrats were complaining that Crowley wouldn't be fair to Obama.

It's always the Losers that complain about the Moderator. Been that way a long time.

Mailed in another ballot this morning. It wasn't a straight party vote.

As usual I've voted for Republicans lots of times.

Just not for ones that are bigger liars than the Man in Charge right now.

5-0

Well, of course you would doubt my facts. They don't line up with your world view. Kind of inconvenient, like the truth.

As for losing the debate, outside of her interjecting herself and being wrong, I was quite pleased with the way the debate went.

I don't care who thinks who won on points like some debating club. We aren't going for debate winner here. We are after a Presidency.

The Libya thing is staying front and center and Obama again didn't come out and answer the question. That keeps it alive for the next debate which is on <drum roll> foreign affairs.

Scheiffer will be reticent to interject himself the way Crowley did. He'll still side with the President, but will have to do it more cautiously.

The pressure is on the guy that thinks he can cause the ocean levels to recede. He hasn't handled that too well so far, so I'm not very worried.

I mean outside of saying "I killed OBL" to every question next week, he doesn't have much to work with.

[OU_Sooners75]

Could be she's a reporter and knew the truth.

She got tired of the lying and called him on it.

Lehrer two weeks ago was just a plant sitting on the stage.

She showed guts.

BTW, Mama....whaddya think of Romney's refusal to say that women deserved equal pay for equal work?

5-0

Called who on lying?

I'm assuming you're talking about the lybia thing when she said check the transcript.

I wonder if she read the transcript. I wonder if you have.

Obama never claimed it as a terrorist attack.

Finally, she projected her liberal bias quite well. Making it a point to cut of Romney. While mildly trying to do the same with Obama, only to let him continue. In fact this is the second straight debate with a liberal moderator and Obama getting 4 minutes extra of talk time.

Finally, the town hall setting is a crappy setting for a debate. It turned into a air boxing match. Where both candidates believe we are stupid and ignorant.

[OU_Sooners75]

If what you imply is true, then why didn't Romney say that he favors equal pay for equal work, plain and simple? It woulda been so easy.

BTW, I doubt your 'facts'.

Maybe She interrupted Romney more because he lied more.

They both lied as Politifact has reported. It's just that Romney lied more.

Before the debate the Democrats were complaining that Crowley wouldn't be fair to Obama.

It's always the Losers that complain about the Moderator after a debate. Been that way a long time.

Mailed in another ballot this morning. It wasn't a straight party vote.

As usual I've voted for Republicans lots of times.

Just not for ones that are bigger liars than the Man in Charge right now.

5-0


Boy you dont understand what the job of a debate moderator is do you?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

How the hell can a vegetarian be so big? What a cow! Candy was a big fail as the liberal debate monitor...

[cleller]

How the hell can a vegetarian be so big? What a cow! Candy was a big fail as the liberal debate monitor...

Candy.

[rock on sooner]

Interesting little tidbit, CNN, with too much time on their hands, did a spoken
word count for this last debate. Romney spoke over 7900 words to Obama's
7400+, even though Obama had a plus four minute edge in speaking time.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Jeremy, the college kid asking about his prospects for jobs after graduation, is a P.E. major.


No, not Petroleum Engineering.

[Curly Bill]

Interesting little tidbit, CNN, with too much time on their hands, did a spoken
word count for this last debate. Romney spoke over 7900 words to Obama's
7400+, even though Obama had a plus four minute edge in speaking time.

You can get more words in when you don't stutter a lot.

[rock on sooner]

You can get more words in when you don't stutter a lot.

Nah, ima thinkin they counted each stutter as a word, plus it's easy
to say "I" REALLY fast!:biggrin:

[olevetonahill]

You can get more words in when you don't stutter a lot.

:drunk:

[rock on sooner]

:drunk:

CB, you say you're sorry fer wakin Vet!

[olevetonahill]

CB, you say you're sorry fer wakin Vet!

Hell I woke up at 4 had to pee and coulndt go back to sleep. The only thing worse than gettin Old is NOT gettin old

[rock on sooner]

Hell I woke up at 4 had to pee and coulndt go back to sleep. The only thing worse than gettin Old is NOT gettin old

It'll get worse before it gets better...I been wakin around 4-4:30
fer last 5 years or so...

[olevetonahill]

It'll get worse before it gets better...I been wakin around 4-4:30
fer last 5 years or so...

well ****.

[rock on sooner]

well ****.

Yup, sucks big time!

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Women already receive equal pay. It's another demagogued myth by liberals that they don't.


This is true. Women as a whole in society may only be paid .72 on the dollar compared to men, but women only work 78% as much as men, which almost explains the gap in of itself. Throw in the other variables L^3 mentioned, and you have equality.

Recent department of labor survey concludes the pay gap is caused by choices, not by discrimination:
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

There is discrimination still alive and kicking in America, but it usually is racial, not sexual. Famous "Emily and Greg" study:
http://scholar.harvard.edu/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf

[olevetonahill]

This is true. Women as a whole in society may only be paid .72 on the dollar compared to men, but women only work 78% as much as men, which almost explains the gap in of itself. Throw in the other variables L^3 mentioned, and you have equality.

Recent department of labor survey concludes the pay gap is caused by choices, not by discrimination:
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

But Wimmens BITCH more

[hawaii 5-0]

Called who on lying?

I'm assuming you're talking about the lybia thing when she said check the transcript.

I wonder if she read the transcript. I wonder if you have.

Obama never claimed it as a terrorist attack.

Finally, she projected her liberal bias quite well. Making it a point to cut of Romney. While mildly trying to do the same with Obama, only to let him continue. In fact this is the second straight debate with a liberal moderator and Obama getting 4 minutes extra of talk time.

Finally, the town hall setting is a crappy setting for a debate. It turned into a air boxing match. Where both candidates believe we are stupid and ignorant.


Here's the transcript:

Yesterday, four of these extraordinary Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi. Among those killed was our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, as well as Foreign Service Officer Sean Smith. We are still notifying the families of the others who were killed. And today, the American people stand united in holding the families of the four Americans in our thoughts and in our prayers.

The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack. We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats. I've also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.

Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.

Already, many Libyans have joined us in doing so, and this attack will not break the bonds between the United States and Libya. Libyan security personnel fought back against the attackers alongside Americans. Libyans helped some of our diplomats find safety, and they carried Ambassador Stevens’s body to the hospital, where we tragically learned that he had died.

It's especially tragic that Chris Stevens died in Benghazi because it is a city that he helped to save. At the height of the Libyan revolution, Chris led our diplomatic post in Benghazi. With characteristic skill, courage, and resolve, he built partnerships with Libyan revolutionaries, and helped them as they planned to build a new Libya. When the Qaddafi regime came to an end, Chris was there to serve as our ambassador to the new Libya, and he worked tirelessly to support this young democracy, and I think both Secretary Clinton and I relied deeply on his knowledge of the situation on the ground there. He was a role model to all who worked with him and to the young diplomats who aspire to walk in his footsteps.

Along with his colleagues, Chris died in a country that is still striving to emerge from the recent experience of war. Today, the loss of these four Americans is fresh, but our memories of them linger on. I have no doubt that their legacy will live on through the work that they did far from our shores and in the hearts of those who love them back home.

Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.

As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

But we also know that the lives these Americans led stand in stark contrast to those of their attackers. These four Americans stood up for freedom and human dignity. They should give every American great pride in the country that they served, and the hope that our flag represents to people around the globe who also yearn to live in freedom and with dignity.

We grieve with their families, but let us carry on their memory, and let us continue their work of seeking a stronger America and a better world for all of our children.

Thank you. May God bless the memory of those we lost and may God bless the United States of America.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I Bolded the part where he mentions the Act of Terror.

I wish you would please point out the part where Obama mentions the anti-Muhommed film.


5-0

[cleller]

This is true. Women as a whole in society may only be paid .72 on the dollar compared to men, but women only work 78% as much as men, which almost explains the gap in of itself. Throw in the other variables L^3 mentioned, and you have equality.

Recent department of labor survey concludes the pay gap is caused by choices, not by discrimination:
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf


There is discrimination still alive and kicking in America, but it usually is racial, not sexual. Famous "Emily and Greg" study:
http://scholar.harvard.edu/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf


Right. I've seen this issue examined several times. I believe if companies could actually pay women less for the same work, they would have been jumping with both feet years ago.
On the whole, men are just more likely to sacrifice other areas of their lives (family) to put in the hours and energy at work.

[MamaMia]

How does Candy Crowley decide which lie to call Mitt out on?

She put up with the constant interruptions and finally got tired of the constant lying.

Mama, how do you feel about Romney and his Binder of Women?

Wouldn't ya think after being a very successful businessman he would know a few women already?

I could go on and on, but arguing here won't change anyone's views.

I'll just speak my onion and then decide it anything is worth responding to.

Next debate, Romney will just debate the moderator.

5-0

Romney doesn't strike me as a person who would discriminate against women, so that whole exchange sounded ridiculous to me. I'm sure if he had a reliable female employee that showed up and did her job well that she would have a position with his business as long as that position was available. Personally, I have had a lot better luck hiring men, not that I cared what gender they were. Its just that men hardly ever missed showing up for work. Its very annoying to try to run a business when your female employees with children are constantly calling in sick or absent.

I have no idea how many men as opposed to women Romney personally knows, but most successful married business men I know, have a much bigger circle of male counterparts, which I don't feel is based upon intention. Thats just the way the world goes round. A lot of business men in the decision making role make deals in male settings.

About Candy interrupting...That goes against everything I ever knew as a member of many debate teams. She should have known better. It was horribly unprofessional and inappropriate, not to mention, she was wrong. I thought she did a **** poor job. It seemed to me that I was listening to Obama a good 20% more than I was Romney.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

This is true. Women as a whole in society may only be paid .72 on the dollar compared to men, but women only work 78% as much as men, which almost explains the gap in of itself. Throw in the other variables L^3 mentioned, and you have equality.

Recent department of labor survey concludes the pay gap is caused by choices, not by discrimination:
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf


There is discrimination still alive and kicking in America, but it usually is racial, not sexual. Famous "Emily and Greg" study:
http://scholar.harvard.edu/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf


Maybe not pay discrimination but there is gender discrimination in other forms.

[rock on sooner]

Romney doesn't strike me as a person who would discriminate against women, so that whole exchange sounded ridiculous to me. I'm sure if he had a reliable female employee that showed up and did her job well that she would have a position with his business as long as that position was available. Personally, I have had a lot better luck hiring men, not that I cared what gender they were. Its just that men hardly ever missed showing up for work. Its very annoying to try to run a business when your female employees with children are constantly calling in sick or absent.

I have no idea how many men as opposed to women Romney personally knows, but most successful married business men I know, have a much bigger circle of male counterparts, which I don't feel is based upon intention. Thats just the way the world goes round. A lot of business men in the decision making role make deals in male settings.

About Candy interrupting...That goes against everything I ever knew as a member of many debate teams. She should have known better. It was horribly unprofessional and inappropriate, not to mention, she was wrong. I thought she did a **** poor job. It seemed to me that I was listening to Obama a good 20% more than I was Romney.

Mama, I agree about Romney not discriminating. I'm of the opinion that
the business world that is/was his domain is inordinately male dominated.
These venture capitialists/turnaround guys are by nature cold blooded and
focused on only how to make money for their investors and are much less
concerned about some of the collateral damage that ineveitably follows e.g.
pink slips, sell off a company piecemeal, close a factory and/or move jobs
to another state/country. As a consequence, as newly elected governor, he
would need to go to women's groups to seek help in locating qualified female
help. That said, he comes across as inept in articulating his positions/viewpoint
because he is accustomed to saying something bluntly to underlings, fully expecting
them to just jump when he commands. He says he turned around the Olympics,
for which he is widely praised and justifiably so. He conveniently neglects to mention
the $400-$600 million taxpayer dollars that helped or the $1.2 billion taxpayer dollars
that paid for the infrastructure to make the event go. He is a CEO type that revels in
his position. He conveys that attitude in all the debates, both primaries and presidential.
His body language and facial expressions toward Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and the president
were/are disrespectful and condescending.

I also agree that Ms Crowley overstepped when she did the fact checking on the spot. She
tried to explain why in at least three interviews that I saw after the debates. But, even given
that overstep I preferred her approach and attempt at participant control compared to Jim
Lehrer.

Your point about male versus female employee reliablility is well taken. Over my years of
retail management and store management, I have had both sexes create staffing problems
but, generally, men were more reliable. Incidentally, it was easier to eliminate the men than
the women from the situation.

[LiveLaughLove]

Here's the transcript:

Yesterday, four of these extraordinary Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi. Among those killed was our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, as well as Foreign Service Officer Sean Smith. We are still notifying the families of the others who were killed. And today, the American people stand united in holding the families of the four Americans in our thoughts and in our prayers.

The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack. We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats. I've also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.

Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.

Already, many Libyans have joined us in doing so, and this attack will not break the bonds between the United States and Libya. Libyan security personnel fought back against the attackers alongside Americans. Libyans helped some of our diplomats find safety, and they carried Ambassador Stevens’s body to the hospital, where we tragically learned that he had died.

It's especially tragic that Chris Stevens died in Benghazi because it is a city that he helped to save. At the height of the Libyan revolution, Chris led our diplomatic post in Benghazi. With characteristic skill, courage, and resolve, he built partnerships with Libyan revolutionaries, and helped them as they planned to build a new Libya. When the Qaddafi regime came to an end, Chris was there to serve as our ambassador to the new Libya, and he worked tirelessly to support this young democracy, and I think both Secretary Clinton and I relied deeply on his knowledge of the situation on the ground there. He was a role model to all who worked with him and to the young diplomats who aspire to walk in his footsteps.

Along with his colleagues, Chris died in a country that is still striving to emerge from the recent experience of war. Today, the loss of these four Americans is fresh, but our memories of them linger on. I have no doubt that their legacy will live on through the work that they did far from our shores and in the hearts of those who love them back home.

Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.

As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

But we also know that the lives these Americans led stand in stark contrast to those of their attackers. These four Americans stood up for freedom and human dignity. They should give every American great pride in the country that they served, and the hope that our flag represents to people around the globe who also yearn to live in freedom and with dignity.

We grieve with their families, but let us carry on their memory, and let us continue their work of seeking a stronger America and a better world for all of our children.

Thank you. May God bless the memory of those we lost and may God bless the United States of America.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I Bolded the part where he mentions the Act of Terror.

I wish you would please point out the part where Obama mentions the anti-Muhommed film.


5-0

He didn't mention ACT of terror, he said ACTS of terror and then spent the next two weeks + blaming the film. To try and say otherwise is outright disingenuous.

For crying out loud, you can't actually be trying to say that Obama knew it was a terrorist attack all along are you?

If so, then you open up far more cans of worms. Why did he blame the film and film maker? Leaving that slob out to dry.

Why did he go to the UN and talk about the film and how no one who insults Mohamed will own the future? Did he just feel like getting in some attaboys to the Mohamed crowd?

I've seen ridiculous arguments on here protecting Obama before, but trying to say that he called that an act of terror from the get go ranks numero uno.

The guy went way way out of the way to say otherwise. Everyone knows that.


Add: Just found this.


http://youtu.be/znVqyfxfbRQ

[rock on sooner]

He didn't mention ACT of terror, he said ACTS of terror and then spent the next two weeks + blaming the film. To try and say otherwise is outright disingenuous.

For crying out loud, you can't actually be trying to say that Obama knew it was a terrorist attack all along are you?

If so, then you open up far more cans of worms. Why did he blame the film and film maker? Leaving that slob out to dry.

Why did he go to the UN and talk about the film and how no one who insults Mohamed will own the future? Did he just feel like getting in some attaboys to the Mohamed crowd?

I've seen ridiculous arguments on here protecting Obama before, but trying to say that he called that an act of terror from the get go ranks numero uno.

The guy went way way out of the way to say otherwise. Everyone knows that.

LLL. I won't go so far as to say that the prez KNEW it was an attack. I will say that
he did on Sept 12 AND Sept 13 say ACTS of terror in general. Here's my take on what
was happening..(I mentioned this another thread) The full attention of the State Dept
was in play as they tried to determine the extent of the event. Any sane person knows
that a two-three pronged assault with heavy machine guns and RPGs is no simple
reaction to an internet 13 minute video, no matter how vile it was. My belief is that
the talk surrounding the event was something of a smokescreen to enable investigators/
informants to get a handle on who the perps are. Backchannel diplomats were/are turning
over every rock and are aggressively hunting them with covert operatives and drones.

Now, as to the UN, there may be more to what you say than you think. It is a very
fine line to on one hand, kick the crap out of extreme Islamists and, on the other, to
maintain a degree of civility toward the moderates. Wouldn't you agree? It is, after
all, an interconnected world.

[LiveLaughLove]

LLL. I won't go so far as to say that the prez KNEW it was an attack. I will say that
he did on Sept 12 AND Sept 13 say ACTS of terror in general. Here's my take on what
was happening..(I mentioned this another thread) The full attention of the State Dept
was in play as they tried to determine the extent of the event. Any sane person knows
that a two-three pronged assault with heavy machine guns and RPGs is no simple
reaction to an internet 13 minute video, no matter how vile it was. My belief is that
the talk surrounding the event was something of a smokescreen to enable investigators/
informants to get a handle on who the perps are. Backchannel diplomats were/are turning
over every rock and are aggressively hunting them with covert operatives and drones.

Now, as to the UN, there may be more to what you say than you think. It is a very
fine line to on one hand, kick the crap out of extreme Islamists and, on the other, to
maintain a degree of civility toward the moderates. Wouldn't you agree? It is, after
all, an interconnected world.

Could be what you say. I lean toward believing he was adamant about it being the film, because he was out promoting as part of his extensive foreign policy achievements, the fact that Al Qaeda/Taliban was basically gone and a threat no longer.

To have to admit to a successful terrorist attack that killed one of our Ambassadors (something that hasn't happened since you-know-whos administration), while stumping on the campaign trail that AL Qaeda was no threat was a killer politically. He just couldn't afford to do that.

As to the UN, I understand you have to be diplomatic, but I don't think you purposefully throw that filmmaker (an American citizen) under the bus to do it. He could have spoke up for our freedom of speech and gave a great learning moment to the world about how valuable that is and should be in every society.

Instead, he chose to pander to the Islamists, as usual.

The point is the record is quite clear that the guy and his cronies took forever and a day to admit what we all knew from day one. It was a coordinated terrorist attack on the anniversary of 9/11. If he is truly that dense and clueless, he needs to be gone even worse than I thought he did. Which would be mind boggling.

Just an extra FYI too, he has stopped using that "Al Qaeda is in retreat" stuff on his stump speeches. He now just says Bin Laden is dead. Interesting, huh.

[LiveLaughLove]

The numbers post VP debate are showing a gain for R/R of +4% nationally.

Biden's numbers swung -11% favorable/unfavorable, while Ryans went +5% to the good in one poll from Wisconsin.

Now I realize Wisconsin is Ryan's home state, but I also know he has never been a statewide elected official there either.

I recall when Wisconsin was +10% Obama. People wrote it off for Romney. Eh, not so much it seems.

Remember, it's not who guffaws, interrupts, giggles, laughs, chides, or scolds the most. It's who has the facts on their side.

R/R win that part of any debate easily, and it's showing the rest of the country agrees.

The Presidential Debate Part II will show numbers along the same lines. People want answers not interruptions.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Maybe not pay discrimination but there is gender discrimination in other forms.
Wouldn't argue with that

[hawaii 5-0]

I guess I missed the part in the Rose Garden speech on 9-12-12 what Obama mentions any film.

Would someone please direct me to the quote?

Or maybe just explain when Acts of Terrorism isn't Terrorism.

5-0

[StoopTroup]

And clearly Romney didn't interrupt President Obama when he said "You'll get your chance...I'm still Speaking" after he broke a debate cardinal rule and asked President Obama a question and then tried to cut him off realizing he screwed the pooch and would look like an even bigger Dumbass if he didn't let him answer?

Mitt had to interrupt the President to shut down the door he should have never opened.

Of course....we don't want to talk about that or we will spin it into "The President should have gone into a Coma and not been so rude"....

[hawaii 5-0]

Actually these guys don't spin it as well as some other websites.

Some responses are much more creative.

5-0

[StoopTroup]

Actually these guys don't spin it as well as some other websites.

Some responses are much more creative.

5-0

I'm sure you are right. I'm very glad this is about over. I love OU Football and all this BS has gone on for way to long. They are using events that happen every day to avoid telling us all how they intend to make things better. I'm just not going to vote for Romney because he says he can do it better when he's talking about being a Governor and the current POTUS stopped a Economic Collapse, has done what he said he would do in getting out of Iraq, Was Commander in Chief when OBL's remains were put on the bottom of the Indian Ocean and has been able to keep Afghanistan from becoming The World's Largest Terrorist Training Camp like it was until America reacted properly after 9-11-01 and sent our Military into the Country to change it from a cesspool to something that at least resembles a Country with human rights.

There of course are other reasons but anyone that goes against "Fire Obama!" is on drugs or insane on this website. God Forbid you have a voice. Which is another reason the GOP continues to lose like they did in 2008. You can't be ****ty to people and expect to woo them to vote for your Candidate. Bush didn't do that and he won 2 terms.

[hawaii 5-0]

Did anyone catch Obama's snide remark when Romney said he was a successful businessman, he was successful turning around the Olympics and he was successful as Governor as Mass.

Obama said, "47th" referring to Mass's rank in job creation during that time.

5-0

[rock on sooner]

Still waiting for Romney to acknowledge how many taxpayer dollars
helped him "turn around the Olympics."

[okie52]

I'm sure you are right. I'm very glad this is about over. I love OU Football and all this BS has gone on for way to long. They are using events that happen every day to avoid telling us all how they intend to make things better. I'm just not going to vote for Romney because he says he can do it better when he's talking about being a Governor and the current POTUS stopped a Economic Collapse, has done what he said he would do in getting out of Iraq, Was Commander in Chief when OBL's remains were put on the bottom of the Indian Ocean and has been able to keep Afghanistan from becoming The World's Largest Terrorist Training Camp like it was until America reacted properly after 9-11-01 and sent our Military into the Country to change it from a cesspool to something that at least resembles a Country with human rights.

There of course are other reasons but anyone that goes against "Fire Obama!" is on drugs or insane on this website. God Forbid you have a voice. Which is another reason the GOP continues to lose like they did in 2008. You can't be ****ty to people and expect to woo them to vote for your Candidate. Bush didn't do that and he won 2 terms.


At a glance, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's 2008 campaign promises for ending the Iraq War included:

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/ObamaIrqWr.htm


The withdrawal of American military forces from Iraq has been a contentious issue within the United States since the beginning of the Iraq War. As the war has progressed from its initial 2003 invasion phase to a multi-year occupation, U.S. public opinion has turned in favor of troop withdrawal. As of May 2007, 55 percent of Americans believed that the Iraq war was a mistake, and 51 percent of registered voters favored troop withdrawal.[2] In late April 2007, the U.S. Congress passed a supplementary spending bill for Iraq that sets a deadline for troop withdrawal, but President Bush vetoed this bill soon afterwards.[3][4] All US Forces were mandated to withdraw from Iraqi territory by 31 December 2011 under the terms of a bilateral agreement signed in 2008 by President Bush. The U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq was completed on 18 December 2011 early Sunday morning.[5]

[hawaii 5-0]

Still waiting for Romney to acknowledge how many taxpayer dollars
helped him "turn around the Olympics."


An often, conveniently overlooked tidbit.


Another one is how much Federal tax dollars is used to fund RomneyCare in Mass.

5-0

[StoopTroup]

And he didn't have to change that schedule as COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

I liked how he reminded Mitt the other night that until you actually win the job of POTUS....he is our COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

It's one thing I respected SSC for as I know he wanted McCain to win in 2008 but was quick to give the new POTUS his due after winning the election. It's something I really tried to do when President GW Bush was POTUS. I was raised to give the POTUS respect even if he wasn't the guy your Parent's or later when I was old enough to vote chose to be POTUS.

I really think being a Loyal American is as important as removing your hat during the singing of the National Anthem or saying the Pledge of Allegiance or standing at attn during the Pledge or a Prayer. Things that seem lost in this forum many times. I can understand the occasional attempt to be humorous but we all probably should work to be a better example to our children and other's kids when we are at the very least talking about all of this in real life rather than on this board. However when we don't do it here...we probably slip up in life as with these things I think we should do more of....the old saying of Practice makes perfect.

I'll continue to slip up same as those who's only responses in this forum are to just flame and bait but whatever happens on November 6th....I'll accept who is elected as my President even if it's Romney as I don't hate him. I just don't think he's the best qualified for the job this time. In 2008 I didn't think Obama was the most qualified but I thought McCain didn't understand America was in trouble and in need of someone who could think outside the box. His ideas would have only sunk our economy closer to another Great Depression and possibly one we wouldn't have been able to recover from.

Could I be wrong? Sure. Senator McCain didn't get the chance. However it was obvious he and Gov. Palin weren't able to get along during the election. Seeing them not get along with her as VP didn't seem all that important as the role of VP and the importance of the position hasn't increased and the most important role anymore seems to be that should the POTUS be unable to perform his/her duties....we need a qualified VP to step into the role. Maybe many here would argue that Senator Biden wasn't as qualified as Gov. Palin as the Election came to a close but the American People made a decision that seemed to put and end to any speculation of the kind and Gov. Palin not only didn't finish her term as Gov. she went on to just hang around the many Candidates who spent lots of money and time to seriously run for the Greatest Nomination of the Republican Party instead of hang around for the Nominee to choose her to be VP in 2012 based on her ability to quit her job and rent a bus to take trips with her Family to the many places serious candidates spoke at to make their bid for The Republican Party's Nominee.

Anyway...whatever happens I hope the American People choose to accept who becomes POTUS and not spend four years bitching and moaning about the outcome. We all seem to know a lot about the Candidates and once chosen....the time that has been spent choosing the new POTUS or Re-Electing the Current POTUS will hopefully lead our Country in a positive direction rather than a type of political stalemate by the elected Tea Party noobs of 2010 that seemed to strengthen the stalemates and discussions that resulted. I surely hope we see a new era of strength and commitment that assists the Middle Class in America and either raises the taxes on the rich or inspires them to create jobs that they could be creating right now and don't.

Best of luck to you...no matter who you are voting for come the 6th. I hope it's turns out to be what's best for America.

[sappstuf]

LLL. I won't go so far as to say that the prez KNEW it was an attack. I will say that
he did on Sept 12 AND Sept 13 say ACTS of terror in general. Here's my take on what
was happening..(I mentioned this another thread) The full attention of the State Dept
was in play as they tried to determine the extent of the event. Any sane person knows
that a two-three pronged assault with heavy machine guns and RPGs is no simple
reaction to an internet 13 minute video, no matter how vile it was. My belief is that
the talk surrounding the event was something of a smokescreen to enable investigators/
informants to get a handle on who the perps are. Backchannel diplomats were/are turning
over every rock and are aggressively hunting them with covert operatives and drones.

Now, as to the UN, there may be more to what you say than you think. It is a very
fine line to on one hand, kick the crap out of extreme Islamists and, on the other, to
maintain a degree of civility toward the moderates. Wouldn't you agree? It is, after
all, an interconnected world.

You are giving them more credit than they deserve... A LOT more.

CNN walked into the safe house a day or two after and picked up the ambassador's diary off the floor. There were obviously no investigators around and the scene wasn't secure at all. The FBI had jurisdiction over this and how did that go? According to the NYTimes:


Sixteen days after the death of four Americans in an attack on a United States diplomatic mission here, fears about the near-total lack of security have kept F.B.I. agents from visiting the scene of the killings and forced them to try to piece together the complicated crime from Tripoli, more than 400 miles away.

Additionally when Osama was killed, it should not have been reported for as long as possible. We had found his laptop and should have tracked down contacts on it and killed or captured them before any news was released. But Osama wasn't even cold yet and Obama went on TV to say he was dead.

The Obama administration isn't as competent as you are giving them credit for.

[cleller]

You are giving them more credit than they deserve... A LOT more.

CNN walked into the safe house a day or two after and picked up the ambassador's diary off the floor. There were obviously no investigators around and the scene wasn't secure at all. The FBI had jurisdiction over this and how did that go? According to the NYTimes:



Additionally when Osama was killed, it should not have been reported for as long as possible. We had found his laptop and should have tracked down contacts on it and killed or captured them before any news was released. But Osama wasn't even cold yet and Obama went on TV to say he was dead.

The Obama administration isn't as competent as you are giving them credit for.

Additionally, the NY Times interviewed a man thought to be one of the ringleaders of the attack on Thursday, in a luxury hotel in Benghazi. He told the Times no one has questioned him about the attacks, and he has not been in hiding.
I guess since he has not been under a stone, the Obama administration cannot find him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/world/africa/suspect-in-benghazi-attack-scoffs-at-us.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[rock on sooner]

Sapp, you and Cleller may be right, I have no more insight into what
happened than any other poster here. CIA station chief reported to
his superiors within 24 hours that his investigations/interviews pointed
to a planned strike. Whether or not that info went up the chain remains
to be seen.

Having spent time in an Islamist country and observed first hand how
duplicitious and untrustworthy they are (many years ago, though), I
am sure the NYTimes reporter got his chain jerked and his money taken.

[cleller]

Sapp, you and Cleller may be right, I have no more insight into what
happened than any other poster here. CIA station chief reported to
his superiors within 24 hours that his investigations/interviews pointed
to a planned strike. Whether or not that info went up the chain remains
to be seen.

Having spent time in an Islamist country and observed first hand how
duplicitious and untrustworthy they are (many years ago, though), I
am sure the NYTimes reporter got his chain jerked and his money taken.

I wondered about whether the administration might try the excuse of not receiving the info....My conclusion is that folks wouldn't believe it, as the White House is probably not left out of the loop on anything of this nature. Or, you'd expect the White House to be actively pursuing any and all info on the attacks very vigorously. That's why it is surprising to me Obama left for his campaign business in Las Vegas.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

AKA, blowjobs.

[sappstuf]

Sapp, you and Cleller may be right, I have no more insight into what
happened than any other poster here. CIA station chief reported to
his superiors within 24 hours that his investigations/interviews pointed
to a planned strike. Whether or not that info went up the chain remains
to be seen.

Having spent time in an Islamist country and observed first hand how
duplicitious and untrustworthy they are (many years ago, though), I
am sure the NYTimes reporter got his chain jerked and his money taken.

To suggest that the report from the CIA station chief reporting where our first ambassador was killed in 18 years didn't go all the way to the top is even more disturbing to me. It must have. No professional would have set on such information... Maybe a political appointee would though, but that points back to Obama.

It came out in the House hearings that State was watching the attack in real time back in the states through the security cameras. It isn't like the tapes had to be delivered from Libya to the US. They knew within hours what kind of attack this was.. Probably minutes.

[cleller]

To suggest that the report from the CIA station chief reporting where our first ambassador was killed in 18 years didn't go all the way to the top is even more disturbing to me. It must have. No professional would have set on such information... Maybe a political appointee would though, but that points back to Obama.

It came out in the House hearings that State was watching the attack in real time back in the states through the security cameras. It isn't like the tapes had to be delivered from Libya to the US. They knew within hours what kind of attack this was.. Probably minutes.

Definitely. The first words from Benghazi that night was "Attack! Attack!", not the type of situation that would arise from a mob milling outside the walls.

"'I do not think," Nixon campaign aide Jeb Magruder told the Senate Watergate committee in the spring of 1973, "there was ever any discussion that there would not be a coverup." Mr. Magruder's lament aptly described the bureaucratic impulse to hide inconvenient facts that seizes every modern White House at some point. His testimony was brought to mind by the growing number of high-profile Republicans accusing the Obama White House of engaging in a coverup in the Benghazi case."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444868204578062420490836106.html

[rock on sooner]

Only one more comment here, I'll repeat my argument that the
UN Ambassador and other gov't officials put out a smokescreen
to "encourage" a letdown in enemy security.. our people HAD TO
HAVE KNOWN what was going on and, as such, perhaps gathered
really good intell. No way to know, imo, but my belief.