Bidens an Idiot

[olevetonahill]

Nuff said

[C&CDean]

Racist.

[LiveLaughLove]

Just got in on it all. So far Bidens smirking is driving my wife crazy. And he is coming across badly in that regard.

I don't think Ryan is coming across much better though. He is too wonkish and not coming across as personable.

[olevetonahill]

Racist.

Yes I am
His white teeth smirk is Pissin me off

[LiveLaughLove]

Yes I am
His white teeth smirk is Pissin me off

lol. My wife is almost screaming in to her pillow over the smirks, smiles, and patronizing "my friend"'s while he's stabbing with the knife.

[Blue]

"Those little lines that go up and down according to some random person holding a controller and how they feel about whats being said are the best inventions ever." said no one ever.

[FaninAma]

lol. My wife is almost screaming in to her pillow over the smirks, smiles, and patronizing "my friend"'s while he's stabbing with the knife.

He must be really annoying. I'm not able to watch but my wife is texting me and she has called Biden an a$$ several times. I don't think Biden has the stature to get away with that type of behavior. He is no Lloyd Bentsen.

[Blue]

Ol Bideys too impatient and curmudgeony for this gaahbage. Look at him bitchin about time when he's talked more. What a wanker.

[LiveLaughLove]

The moderator that had Obama at her wedding, is starting to side with Biden. She keeps interrupting Ryan. Biden, not so much.

[KABOOKIE]

The moderator that had Obama at her wedding, is starting to side with Biden. She keeps interrupting Ryan. Biden, not so much.

No surprise there. Liberals are weak by their nature. They need to cheat, lie and deceive to advance their agenda.

[landrun]

Say what you want, but Ryan is losing as bad as Obama did in the first debate.

[landrun]

Ryan needed to stop letting Biden yell and interrupt him on his own time. Biden has won this round I think.

[Blue]

Ryan needed to stop letting Biden yell and interrupt him on his own time. Biden has won this round I think.

I don't think so. What I see online is disgust in Biden continually laughing and dismissing Ryan.

[olevetonahill]

Say what you want, but Ryan is losing as bad as Obama did in the first debate.

Say what??
Ryan is kickin stupid Joes ***.

[olevetonahill]

I don't think so. What I see online is disgust in Biden continually laughing and dismissing Ryan.

This.

[LiveLaughLove]

Say what??
Ryan is kickin stupid Joes ***.

Yeah, but you're a racist, so ya know, there's that.

[OU_Sooners75]

Biden is trying to be cunning and agressive. But instead he is coming across as arrogant and an *******.

[FaninAma]

Joe has never struck me as being particularly bright.

[olevetonahill]

Yeah, but you're a racist, so ya know, there's that.

Well shat!

[LiveLaughLove]

Does anyone really think that Biden considers Romney and Ryan as his "friends"?

[olevetonahill]

Joe has never struck me as being particularly bright.

He aint strikin tonight either !

[cleller]

Biden must have feathers in his throat. There's nothing that doesn't tickle him.

[OU_Sooners75]

Biden is an obedient democrat. He has practiced over and over what the topics would be. He has been coached how to change the tone and level of his voice. And he has been trained how to interrupt and try to manipulate the debate.


The guy is a ****ing clown and tool.

[FaninAma]

I can already see the montage of Biden's idiotic behavior being put together as we speak. Anybody remember Al Gore's continual sighing? It sounds like Biden has out-jerked Al.

[LiveLaughLove]

Biden must have feathers in his throat. There's nothing that doesn't tickle him.

funny.

Notice how his voice changed when the moderator asked them to get personal.

Good acting classes.

[cleller]

I will give Biden a good mark for his handling of the abortion question. Its pretty much the way I see it. Must be the Libertarian streak in me.

[OU_Sooners75]

For many years, even as moderate democrat, I have been against abortion unless the mother was raped.

[BigTip]

I'm pro-choice myself. That is one issue, that probably will not ever change now. It's not much of an issue to me in the grand scheme of things. I really don't understand why both parties keep dragging it up.

[BigTip]

There were several people watching in my bar. We decided to play a drinking game before it started. Every time Biden said 47%, you had to take a shot. A couple of guys got drunk.

[Skysooner]

I'm pro-choice myself. That is one issue, that probably will not ever change now. It's not much of an issue to me in the grand scheme of things. I really don't understand why both parties keep dragging it up.

Totally agree.

[olevetonahill]

I'm pro-choice myself. That is one issue, that probably will not ever change now. It's not much of an issue to me in the grand scheme of things. I really don't understand why both parties keep dragging it up.

Kill a Baby aint right!

[BigTip]

I think the moderator should have a switch that controls the debater's microphones. That would fix some of the problems.

[Blue]

I'm pro-choice myself. That is one issue, that probably will not ever change now. It's not much of an issue to me in the grand scheme of things. I really don't understand why both parties keep dragging it up.


Maybe because you are murdering an unborn beating heart. Whats so hard to comprehend?

[diverdog]

Nuff said

If Biden is an idiot, as you say, and he fought Ryan to a draw then what does that make Ryan?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The moderator that had Obama at her wedding, is starting to side with Biden. She keeps interrupting Ryan. Biden, not so much.I tuned in for a few minutes early in the debate, and every time Ryan said ANYTHING, Biden would interrupt. The mod let him do it, and didn't try to stop him from doing it. In fact, she didn't say anything about the interuptions at all. I turned it off.

[soonercruiser]

If Biden is an idiot, as you say, and he fought Ryan to a draw then what does that make Ryan?

"The Underdog"!

[soonercruiser]

Ol Bideys too impatient and curmudgeony for this gaahbage. Look at him bitchin about time when he's talked more. What a wanker.

Joe does the the "angry old white man" pretty darn good!

[EnragedOUfan]

This is what I don't understand, even when I try to logically look at things wearing a Republican set of glasses............

1. Why cut PBS? WTF is so wrong with an educational channel? Does the educational channel really place that much burden on the budget?

2. Do you guys really want to go to war with Iran? Is war the answer, even though we've been in conflict since 2001? We've been in Afghanistan for over 11 years people.

3. Should there really be an attack on another country based on morals and assumptions? People die in war. I hear "military action" like its some d@mn game or something....

4. Do we really think people overseas are absolutely going to respect us if we flex muscle? Flexing muscle is a temporary fix people, nothing more. If anything, it makes people hate you more.

[BigTip]

Walter the old man
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/82019.gif
Biden
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/_NEW/n_debate_biden_01healthcare_070926.grid-6x2.jpg

[diverdog]

Walter the old man
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/82019.gif
Biden
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/_NEW/n_debate_biden_01healthcare_070926.grid-6x2.jpg

Now put in Ron Paul and get back to me.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This is what I don't understand, even when I try to logically look at things wearing a Republican set of glasses............

1. Why cut PBS? WTF is so wrong with an educational channel? Does the educational channel really place that much burden on the budget?

2. Do you guys really want to go to war with Iran? Is war the answer, even though we've been in conflict since 2001? We've been in Afghanistan for over 11 years people.

3. Should there really be an attack on another country based on morals and assumptions? People die in war. I hear "military action" like its some d@mn game or something....

4. Do we really think people overseas are absolutely going to respect us if we flex muscle? Flexing muscle is a temporary fix people, nothing more. If anything, it makes people hate you more.Iran has said they want to eliminate Israel and that America is their enemy. They are building nukes they can deliver to our shores. Obama is tearing down our economy and military deterrance capabilities. Do you want to re-elect him?

Do you think we are in normal or near normal times now, with the crushing debt, rampant monetization and economic activity grinding down, with us leading the collapse by massive government spending, and intentional demonization and apparent intentional destruction of the private sector?

[diverdog]

Iran has said they want to eliminate Israel and that America is their enemy. They are building nukes they can deliver to our shores. Obama is tearing down our economy and military deterrance capabilities. Do you want to re-elect him?

How is Obama tearing down our military capabilities?

Iran is a looooong way from building a nuclear capable ballistic missile.

[Blue]

This is what I don't understand, even when I try to logically look at things wearing a Republican set of glasses............

1. Why cut PBS? WTF is so wrong with an educational channel? Does the educational channel really place that much burden on the budget?

2. Do you guys really want to go to war with Iran? Is war the answer, even though we've been in conflict since 2001? We've been in Afghanistan for over 11 years people.

3. Should there really be an attack on another country based on morals and assumptions? People die in war. I hear "military action" like its some d@mn game or something....

4. Do we really think people overseas are absolutely going to respect us if we flex muscle? Flexing muscle is a temporary fix people, nothing more. If anything, it makes people hate you more.

Obama is that you? Bwahaha. Nobody wants war or death but you are a damn fool if you think re-electing the apologizer in chief will stave off war. He doesn't make that call.

I'd rather deal from strength than we we are currently which is a wounded lion and the hyenas are circling. Do i think Romney will change that? No. But theres a chance, and I'll take serious people over a mocking Joe Biden and Empty suit like Obama any day.

As far as PBS. Why do I care or should anyone care. I've never watched PBS. If I had kids it would not be the end of the world if they didn't get to watch Bigbird. And if Bigbird was such a big draw, wouldn't the free market and some channel out there pick him up? Yes they would.

[Blue]

"In my day, we didn't actually have to debate ideas! We showed up, we measured pricks, saw who could spit the furthest....and we liked it!!! Weee Loved it!!"

http://s3.vidimg.popscreen.com/original/28/eGtwOWNvMTI=_o_saturday-night-live-dana-carvey-as-grumpy-old-man.jpg

[diverdog]

Obama is that you? Bwahaha. Nobody wants war or death but you are a damn fool if you think re-electing the apologizer in chief will stave off war. He doesn't make that call.

I'd rather deal from strength than we we are currently which is a wounded lion and the hyenas are circling. Do i think Romney will change that? No. But theres a chance, and I'll take serious people over a mocking Joe Biden and Empty suit like Obama any day.

.



1. It has been widely speculated that US special forces have been behind a number of bombings in Iran that have taken down power lines to Iran nuclear production facilities.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4283797,00.html

On top of that we have ongoing cyber attacks against their production facilities. US sanctions are killing the Iranian economy. Their currency is in a free fall.

2. The Obama administration has systematically targeted and taken down AQ and Taliban leadership in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Against advice they named the Haqqani Organization terrorist ( something Bush did not do) and have begun killing their leadership.

3. He has kept up drone attacks in the Horn of Africa and killed the top 3 targets on our hit list.

I could go on.

[SCOUT]

If Biden is an idiot, as you say, and he fought Ryan to a draw then what does that make Ryan?

An acceptable replacement.

[Blue]

1. It has been widely speculated that US special forces have been behind a number of bombings in Iran that have taken down power lines to Iran nuclear production facilities.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4283797,00.html

On top of that we have ongoing cyber attacks against their production facilities. US sanctions are killing the Iranian economy. Their currency is in a free fall.

2. The Obama administration has systematically targeted and taken down AQ and Taliban leadership in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Against advice they named the Haqqani Organization terrorist ( something Bush did not do) and have begun killing their leadership.

3. He has kept up drone attacks in the Horn of Africa and killed the top 3 targets on our hit list.

I could go on.



Russia, China, Brazil, Venezuela, and iran fart in Obamas general direction. Like I said, I believe this is a global battle for supremacy and monetary control. Its all about resources and central banks and Obama is less important than an butt pimple on the world stage. My guess is that he is a joke.

[diverdog]

Russia, China, Brazil, Venezuela, and iran fart in Obamas general direction. Like I said, I believe this is a global battle for supremacy and monetary control. Its all about resources and central banks and Obama is less important than an butt pimple on the world stage. My guess is that he is a joke.

Well that is your opinion which you are entitled to but it is not backed up by facts.

[hawaii 5-0]

Ryan was noticed several times drinking water.

I think it was a vain effort to keep his pants from bursting into flames.

Biden nailed Ryan when he got Ryan to admit he asked for and got stimulus money for his district because 'it would help the economy and create jobs'.

Ryan also seemed clueless about what our current purpose is in Afghanistan.

I was upset at Biden's constant interruptions, eye rolling and smirking everytime Ryan lied.

5-0

[Blue]

Well that is your opinion which you are entitled to but it is not backed up by facts.

You get owned and whipped like a rented mule every time you post over here. Thats a fact.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/o4WHQQc5Rb9iR7cgPzJDPQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0yODg7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/us.news.abcnews.otus/ap_joe_biden_debate_1_ll_121011_wmain.jpg

What, you don't like my ****-eating grin?

[LiveLaughLove]

Ryan was noticed several times drinking water.

I think it was a vain effort to keep his pants from bursting into flames.

Biden nailed Ryan when he got Ryan to admit he asked for and got stimulus money for his district because 'it would help the economy and create jobs'.

Ryan also seemed clueless about what our current purpose is in Afghanistan.

I was upset at Biden's constant interruptions, eye rolling and smirking everytime Ryan lied.

5-0

It's always interesting to see the other side of things.

Biden said Ryan was part of the fault for voting for two wars that were unfunded and that he voted against them. Huh? Biden voted for both of those unfunded wars.

You mean lies like that?

Or that they were not informed about the video not being the start of the trouble in Benghazi? You mean a flat out lie like that?

Or that the Ambassador didn't request more security when the Ambassadors journal says he requested it and was turned down. Lies like that?

Yeah, Ryan lied a lot, it just seemed to come out of Joe's mouth...between smirks and nervous laughs.

[Wishboned]

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/o4WHQQc5Rb9iR7cgPzJDPQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0yODg7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/us.news.abcnews.otus/ap_joe_biden_debate_1_ll_121011_wmain.jpg

What, you don't like my ****-eating grin?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/TheRainKing/Links/man_who_laughs_zps9c8b8c2d.jpg

[Wishboned]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PCtemaHgjyA

[BigTip]

"In my day, we didn't actually have to debate ideas! We showed up, we measured pricks, saw who could spit the furthest....and we liked it!!! Weee Loved it!!"

http://s3.vidimg.popscreen.com/original/28/eGtwOWNvMTI=_o_saturday-night-live-dana-carvey-as-grumpy-old-man.jpg


LOL.
pretty good.

[smooth3d]

Romney ran over that poor old moderator in his debate and was called forceful and in charge.

Biden laughed and called Ryan on his BS and is being called mean and smug?

Lets be honest here we are pre-biased in how you view the debate anyways. Ryan lost this debate. He look foolish at times.

[hawaii 5-0]

This debate won't make or break the election.

I really was hoping Biden would pull one of his usual boners.

Instead he got the best comeback. "Oh, so now you're Jack Kennedy??"

5-0

[hawaii 5-0]

It's always interesting to see the other side of things.

Biden said Ryan was part of the fault for voting for two wars that were unfunded and that he voted against them. Huh? Biden voted for both of those unfunded wars.

You mean lies like that?

Or that they were not informed about the video not being the start of the trouble in Benghazi? You mean a flat out lie like that?

Or that the Ambassador didn't request more security when the Ambassadors journal says he requested it and was turned down. Lies like that?

Yeah, Ryan lied a lot, it just seemed to come out of Joe's mouth...between smirks and nervous laughs.

Pretty much any FactCheck article will back my statements.

Enjoy your spin tho.

5-0

[SCOUT]

Romney ran over that poor old moderator in his debate and was called forceful and in charge.

Biden laughed and called Ryan on his BS and is being called mean and smug?

Lets be honest here we are pre-biased in how you view the debate anyways. Ryan lost this debate. He look foolish at times.
Romeny ran over that man to the point that he was given -5 minutes of time. That's right. The jerk who bullied the moderator came up on the short end of the stick.

Yeah, moderator alignment has no impact on perception.

[BigTip]

Romney ran over that poor old moderator in his debate and was called forceful and in charge.

Biden laughed and called Ryan on his BS and is being called mean and smug?

Lets be honest here we are pre-biased in how you view the debate anyways. Ryan lost this debate. He look foolish at times.

Not at all. I thought he looked very cool and collected the entire time, even when dealing with the non-rule following, condescending, out of touch with reality, bully. Biden would blather on, Ryan would say succinct, structured responses.

Who looked more presidential? Squirmy rude man, or composed respectful man?

All in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

[SCOUT]

This debate won't make or break the election.

I really was hoping Biden would pull one of his usual boners.

Instead he got the best comeback. "Oh, so now you're Jack Kennedy??"

5-0

The fact that this is your expectation of the sitting Vice President of the United States only bolsters the claim that perhaps actual change is in order.

[BigTip]

Instead he got the best comeback. "Oh, so now you're Jack Kennedy??"

5-0

Ha! To me that WAS a boner. It was just a stupid thing to say as Ryan came nowhere close to comparing himself to Kennedy. It was just a crazy, from left field, comment. Hearing comprehension problems there Joe?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It's always interesting to see the other side of things.

Biden said Ryan was part of the fault for voting for two wars that were unfunded and that he voted against them. Huh? Biden voted for both of those unfunded wars.

You mean lies like that?

Or that they were not informed about the video not being the start of the trouble in Benghazi? You mean a flat out lie like that?

Or that the Ambassador didn't request more security when the Ambassadors journal says he requested it and was turned down. Lies like that?

Yeah, Ryan lied a lot, it just seemed to come out of Joe's mouth...between smirks and nervous laughs. Our board libs make us wonder what planet they live on, or whether what they see and hear register correctly in their brains, at least poorly enough to get everything back-assward, so they are pathetically wrong in their analyses.

[The Remnant]

"When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, the foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest."---Proverbs 29:9

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yes I am
His white teeth smirk is Pissin me off
man, thems some dentures... Love the hair plugs gone bad as well...

[smooth3d]

Who looked more presidential? Squirmy rude man, or composed respectful man?

All in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

See when I see Ryan he dodging questions and lying just like Romney did. I like Biden being funny and witty and yes I would take a funny and witty president.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

How is Obama tearing down our military capabilities?

Iran is a looooong way from building a nuclear capable ballistic missile.
but supposedly only a few months away from being able to make a bomb. God helps us if they everget it.

[Blue]

See when I see Ryan he dodging questions and lying just like Romney did. I like Biden being funny and witty and yes I would take a funny and witty president.

You have to know the issues to identify a lie. Please educate us, Smoood.

[BigTip]

"When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, the foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest."---Proverbs 29:9

Nice.
VERY appropriate.

[LiveLaughLove]

"When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, the foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest."---Proverbs 29:9

post of the night on here. excellent.

[smooth3d]

You have to know the issues to identify a lie. Please educate us, Smoood.

Educate yourself

[LiveLaughLove]

Something that struck me was Biden said the intelligence people failed them on Benghazi. (Of course, they blame everyone for everything but themselves, but I digress)

Then he says that Iran is a long way from getting a nuke. How do we know this? Well, intelligence says so.

Seems like a very bad answer to me to trust intel if they really sucked so badly that our Ambassador got killed on the anniversary of 9 freaking 11 !

Like, my child could have said maybe we should beef up security for that week in the middle east.

Yet Biden glibly says don't worry. We know exactly what Iran is doing and where they are at in the process. Yeah, ok.

[LiveLaughLove]

See when I see Ryan he dodging questions and lying just like Romney did. I like Biden being funny and witty and yes I would take a funny and witty president.

I've always thought Jim Carrey would be a good prez. Would make me sleep well at night.

Enlighten me on the lies from Ryan please. I've given the ones of the top of my head that I know Biden told.

[Blue]

Educate yourself

Aight Homey.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

See when I see Ryan he dodging questions and lying just like Romney did. I like Biden being funny and witty and yes I would take a funny and witty president.How do you personally benefit from socialism?

[LiveLaughLove]

Ha! To me that WAS a boner. It was just a stupid thing to say as Ryan came nowhere close to comparing himself to Kennedy. It was just a crazy, from left field, comment. Hearing comprehension problems there Joe?
Agreed. When he said that my wife and I just looked at each other and she said, he was way to eager to say something like that, and it didn't fit.

Ryan didn't claim to Kennedy or know Kennedy or anything about Kennedy. Ryan actually was making a very good point.

Biden thought he had his immortality with that one, and it fell flat.

[smooth3d]

Aight Homey.

I'm not your homey, I see you trying to be funny, it's not working.

[Blue]

I'm not your homey, I see you trying to be funny, it's not working.

Ok man. Good night.

[smooth3d]

How do you personally benefit from socialism?

The arguments of a simple man, use buzz words. How do you benefit from it?

[smooth3d]

I've always thought Jim Carrey would be a good prez. Would make me sleep well at night.

Enlighten me on the lies from Ryan please. I've given the ones of the top of my head that I know Biden told.

Sigh I respect opposing view thoughts but it would be idiotic of me to debate with you. Your opinion is not going to change and mine are not going to change. Have a good night sir.

[hawaii 5-0]

The fact that this is your expectation of the sitting Vice President of the United States only bolsters the claim that perhaps actual change is in order.


Vice President or not we ARE talking about Joe Biden here. Aren't we ??

He's got a history of tasting his foot.

5-0

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Solicitor General Robert Bork borked Watergate Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox as part of the Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre.

But years later, Joe Biden led the charge in borking Robert Bork's Supreme Court nomination. Biden was formidable.

Biden is past his prime, but he's no big bird.

[hawaii 5-0]

I remember Bork.

He was scary. Real scary. Billy goat scary.

5-0

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I remember Bork.

He was scary. Real scary. Billy goat scary.

5-0

Nobody was more arrogant than Bork.

[MamaMia]

Ryan needed to stop letting Biden yell and interrupt him on his own time. Biden has won this round I think.Not unless you think being horrifically rude appeals to people.

[diverdog]

Not unless you think being horrifically rude appeals to people.

I think Biden was playing to his base and trying to energize them. By all accounts they loved it and for him it is the only thing that counts.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Tweet: from Chris Rock: 9=1=1 Hello? THere's an old man abusing a child on my tv! #debate

[SoonerLaw09]

How is Obama tearing down our military capabilities?

Iran is a looooong way from building a nuclear capable ballistic missile.


"We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analysing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will." -- Neville Chamberlain

[SoonerLaw09]

You know, that Proverb is sooo appropriate these days (gee, the Bible is right...what a concept). When debating a liberal, as soon as you point out the illogic of their position, they either rant and rave and call you names, or laugh like it's all some colossal joke. Then they go on repeating the same thing over and over again, hoping to make it true just by saying it. They can't put a coherent argument together.

Ryan said something very profound which probably went past a lot of people, but it's important. He pointed out that even if you tax everybody in the country at 100%, you could only run the government for a matter of months at the current spending level. There simply isn't enough money in the economy of the United States to sustain the deficits we keep running. People need to understand that, especially the "47%-ers". What would they do if one day, the government checks just stopped coming? Hint: see Western Europe for your answer.

[cleller]

A bunch of giggling and arm waving by an old man who's got no money, and 2 mortgages on his house vs a guy 27 years younger who's knocking down some good investments, and keeping his cool on stage.

You can choose who you think should be in charge of our country's money.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

That was key. I got it, but apparently Martha Radich or whatever the hell this libs name is, just glossed over it and kept saying he wasn't answering the question. Biden was an *** all night long, nothing different than I expected from him.

He was answering the question, about spreading the base, making it bigger. That is what you want to do in safety for incidents, same for taxes. The bigger base, the less likelihood it will hit the peak as you are monitoring and collecting more (money or safety stats).

[Soonerjeepman]

Maybe because you are murdering an unborn beating heart. Whats so hard to comprehend?
agree
abortion is a pure money maker..for 90% of abortions it's NOT about rape/incest/mother's life....but don't let facts get in the way.

[Soonerjeepman]

Sigh I respect opposing view thoughts but it would be idiotic of me to debate with you. Your opinion is not going to change and mine are not going to change. Have a good night sir.

didn't ask for you to change anyone's mind...just the lies Ryan supposedly told? Biden worked the "energy" very well...after obama's fail, biden make it look like the dems are all energy....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The arguments of a simple man, use buzz words. How do you benefit from it?First sentence the stupid card, as expected. Socialism to you is a buzz word? What do you think your leftist politicians have been doing? I don't benefit, and few people do, really, since it wrecks economy, and creates societal unrest. It must be that you do benefit from the socialism, somehow, since you apparently want more of it.

[TitoMorelli]

Summation of last night's debate, courtesy of one conservative political cartoonist ---


http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Vice-Debate-w-bird-LI1.jpg


http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/10/branco-cartoon-one-heartbeat-away/

[Wishboned]

Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times.

The moderator interrupted Ryan 31 times. She interrupted Biden 19.

Biden had about a minute and a half lead on Ryan in talk time, and that's not counting the interruptions.

[Soonerjeepman]

Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times.

The moderator interrupted Ryan 31 times. She interrupted Biden 19.

Biden had about a minute and a half lead on Ryan in talk time, and that's not counting the interruptions.

lol..no wonder the libs are screaming Ryan didn't answer any questions...he COULDN'T!

[MamaMia]

Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times.

The moderator interrupted Ryan 31 times. She interrupted Biden 19.

Biden had about a minute and a half lead on Ryan in talk time, and that's not counting the interruptions. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/smilies/coffee.gif Not surprised, but I guess thats the sort of thing Bidens base likes.

[StoopTroup]

I think Ryan got his *** spanked by Biden when he talked about the Nixon's and Romney paying for their Children's College Education. Biden countered with his real life story of losing half his own Family and how he understands the needs of all Americans.

Mitt Romney can no more go around paying for every kid's College Education who's Family fell on really awful times than John D. Rockefeller could hand out dimes to help people back in the depression.

Ryan has it wrong and anyone that thinks Romney and Ryan is going to make things better for middle class America is obviously backing a 1% of Americans who care less about them. I've never seen two more desperate candidates since Gerald Ford lost to Carter. The bad news for Romney voters is that Carter wasn't a sitting POTUS who has doubled the Dow and turned the Country around when it was at it's darkest moment since the Great Depression.

Biden looked Arrogant because he had an answer for every little picture Ryan finger painted.

[LiveLaughLove]

I think Ryan got his *** spanked by Biden when he talked about the Nixon's and Romney paying for their Children's College Education. Biden countered with his real life story of losing half his own Family and how he understands the needs of all Americans.

Mitt Romney can no more go around paying for every kid's College Education who's Family fell on really awful times than John D. Rockefeller could hand out dimes to help people back in the depression.

Ryan has it wrong and anyone that thinks Romney and Ryan is going to make things better for middle class America is obviously backing a 1% of Americans who care less about them. I've never seen two more desperate candidates since Gerald Ford lost to Carter. The bad news for Romney voters is that Carter wasn't a sitting POTUS who has doubled the Dow and turned the Country around when it was at it's darkest moment since the Great Depression.

Biden looked Arrogant because he had an answer for every little picture Ryan finger painted.

Not surprised you would think Biden won. You thought Obama win his debate. That put you briefly in the 1% yourself. 1% that believed Obama won his debate.

But not content with being just flat out wrong, you added that debates don't change voters minds. Last I looked your guy is floundering in the polls now.

So your welcome to your opinion of course. But personally I take zero stock in it.

[SoonerLaw09]

I think Ryan got his *** spanked by Biden when he talked about the Nixon's and Romney paying for their Children's College Education. Biden countered with his real life story of losing half his own Family and how he understands the needs of all Americans.

Mitt Romney can no more go around paying for every kid's College Education who's Family fell on really awful times than John D. Rockefeller could hand out dimes to help people back in the depression.

Ryan has it wrong and anyone that thinks Romney and Ryan is going to make things better for middle class America is obviously backing a 1% of Americans who care less about them. I've never seen two more desperate candidates since Gerald Ford lost to Carter. The bad news for Romney voters is that Carter wasn't a sitting POTUS who has doubled the Dow and turned the Country around when it was at it's darkest moment since the Great Depression.

Biden looked Arrogant because he had an answer for every little picture Ryan finger painted.

What a bunch of malarkey.

[diverdog]

"We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analysing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will." -- Neville Chamberlain


This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Ike

[BigTip]

Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times.

The moderator interrupted Ryan 31 times. She interrupted Biden 19.

Biden had about a minute and a half lead on Ryan in talk time, and that's not counting the interruptions.

An analogy to the debate:

Ryan and Biden agree to meet behind the gym after school for a fist fight. The begin to fight, and the Biden pulls out a knife, and starts to wave it around. The altercation eventually ends. Biden walks away with his close friends clapping him on the back saying, "You sure showed him." Ryan walks away, unscathed, as everyone else that witnessed the fight realizes that Ryan is the better man for holding his own while his opponent cheated during the fight.

Long term this will not help Biden. As the thread title says, he looked like an idiot.

[BigTip]

Biden had about a minute and a half lead on Ryan in talk time, and that's not counting the interruptions.

Whoever counted it up should count the actual talking time versus the "talk" time. Ryan was most likely attributed talk time for the times he had the floor but was pausing to wait for Biden's rude break in rants to subside.

[Skysooner]

An analogy to the debate:

Ryan and Biden agree to meet behind the gym after school for a fist fight. The begin to fight, and the Biden pulls out a knife, and starts to wave it around. The altercation eventually ends. Biden walks away with his close friends clapping him on the back saying, "You sure showed him." Ryan walks away, unscathed, as everyone else that witnessed the fight realizes that Ryan is the better man for holding his own while his opponent cheated during the fight.

Long term this will not help Biden. As the thread title says, he looked like an idiot.

I don't think either one of them came off as remotely Presidential. That being said, the circumstances are quite a bit different than what would be if they were the main man. Biden was too flippant. Ryan just appeared tense to me. If Obama wins this term, I think both nominations the next time out are wide open.

[sappstuf]

I think Biden was playing to his base and trying to energize them. By all accounts they loved it and for him it is the only thing that counts.

Since it looks like all the independents are breaking towards Romney, I guess it is the only thing that counts because it is all your going to get.

[pphilfran]

I don't think either one of them came off as remotely Presidential. That being said, the circumstances are quite a bit different than what would be if they were the main man. Biden was too flippant. Ryan just appeared tense to me. If Obama wins this term, I think both nominations the next time out are wide open.


What we need is bipartisan agreements...and the way Biden showed his *** on national tv makes me wonder how he is behind closed doors...bipartisan isn't even in his vocabulary...and if the entire administration performs the same as Biden I would not want to have them representing me in an attempt at a bipartisan plan...

[Skysooner]

What we need is bipartisan agreements...and the way Biden showed his *** on national tv makes me wonder how he is behind closed doors...bipartisan isn't even in his vocabulary...and if the entire administration performs the same as Biden I would not want to have them representing me in an attempt at a bipartisan plan...

I agree with this. The only bipartisan talking that I can even remember was Obama and Boehner on the debt ceiling deal, but there were so many conflicting reports on that. What we are seeing is pure raw politics here. This is one of the big problems I have with Obama is his inability to cross the aisle or even work with his own people closely.

[Soonerjeepman]

This is one of the big problems I have with Obama is his inability to cross the aisle or even work with his own people closely.

agreed...I"m not trying to start crap...but didn't his own party not vote for his budget?

I totally agree with your earlier post..NEITHER looked presidential at all..in fact I was "$hit..I hope whoever wins doesn't get shot or die...we'll be in deep dodo!"..lol

[TitoMorelli]

agreed...I"m not trying to start crap...but didn't his own party not vote for his budget?

I totally agree with your earlier post..NEITHER looked presidential at all..in fact I was "$hit..I hope whoever wins doesn't get shot or die...we'll be in deep dodo!"..lol

imo the veep candidates were the high point of the 2000 debate series in terms of an actual exchange of ideas and sober discussions supported and contested by both sides. 2004 was a little less so, but still marked by less grandstanding and more time given to solid debate and response.

These past two VP debates, however, have been circuses. And the one thing they have in common is Biden.

I think one candidate showed up last night wanting to have a real debate. The other, unfortunately, never had any intention of allowing one.

[Skysooner]

agreed...I"m not trying to start crap...but didn't his own party not vote for his budget?

I totally agree with your earlier post..NEITHER looked presidential at all..in fact I was "$hit..I hope whoever wins doesn't get shot or die...we'll be in deep dodo!"..lol

His party didn't vote for his budget. If he wins, I'm going to hope he actually does something. If Romney wins, this needs to be bipartisan. The really bad thing is the lame duck Congress has to do something about the manadatory cuts coming up soon, or we will see the economy in the tank again soon.

[Soonerjeepman]

I do commend PR for keeping his composure but honestly I expected more info out of him. Course with DA interrupting him and the commentator allowing it, it was hard to do. I thought he used the same cliche expressions most of the night.

Honestly joe b looked like a madman...

[soonercruiser]

I do commend PR for keeping his composure but honestly I expected more info out of him. Course with DA interrupting him and the commentator allowing it, it was hard to do. I thought he used the same cliche expressions most of the night.

Honestly joe b looked like a madman...

Perhaps you guys have missed Romney and Ryan's main point on the details of budgets and budget cuts?
Obama (and Biden's attitude at the debate) has shown that they are not willing to come up with anything with bipartisan support.
PR are about having a basic structure of a plan, and getting bipartisan ideas and agreements on all the fine details of any plan. They are willing to admit that they don't have all the best ideas to themselves.
*Unlike Obama, Peeloski, and Reid behind closed doors with the drug and insurance companies like the AARP making secret sweetheart deals, when coming up with the details on Obamacare.
*Arrogance and wise a** will get the country nowhere!

[MamaMia]

I think one candidate showed up last night wanting to have a real debate. The other, unfortunately, never had any intention of allowing one. This was my impression as well. Biden made up his mind before the debate started that he was going to be overly assertive and it equated to him coming off as looking like a complete buffoon. The title of this thread says it best. Biden is an idiot. Ryan could hardly get a word in. If Biden wasn't interrupting him, the commentator was. The whole debate was a f'n joke, but what else would you expect from that network? .

[KantoSooner]

My goodness! six pages of this so far?

The statement made was 'Biden's an Idiot'

To which it would have been sufficient, though years out of date, to simply say, "Why, yes. Yes he is." And leave it at that.

[OU_Sooners75]

How is Obama tearing down our military capabilities?

Iran is a looooong way from building a nuclear capable ballistic missile.

I haven't read this entire thread since I logged off last night.

But do you honestly think they will keep nuclear weapons secure, and only as a deterent?

Do you honestly feel that they don't have the capibilities to build a missle delivery system as they get closer to nuclear grade uranium?

They already know how to build and test fire missles. Don't they already have missles with a range to hit Israel?

So to think they are a "looooong" way off is kind of false, don't you think? Or at least a little misleading?

Maybe they are years or decades of getting there. But maybe they are months or a few years? Who really knows since they aren't being totally forthcoming and honest?


The Iranian governments goal is to wipe Israel off the map. And it seems they may try to obtain that goal any way possible. Their funding terrorist groups hasn't really worked out for them. So now they want nuclear energy only?

And terrorist group funding. That brings up the idea of them selling materials to make dirty bombs. And those could very well make their way to the shores of our nation.

[Breadburner]

Yes he is...!!!

[Soonerjeepman]

Perhaps you guys have missed Romney and Ryan's main point on the details of budgets and budget cuts?
Obama (and Biden's attitude at the debate) has shown that they are not willing to come up with anything with bipartisan support.
PR are about having a basic structure of a plan, and getting bipartisan ideas and agreements on all the fine details of any plan. They are willing to admit that they don't have all the best ideas to themselves.
*Unlike Obama, Peeloski, and Reid behind closed doors with the drug and insurance companies like the AARP making secret sweetheart deals, when coming up with the details on Obamacare.
*Arrogance and wise a** will get the country nowhere!

Hey Cruis, I'm on YOUR side! LOL...I just expected more from PR...I'm glad he didn't go mad-man like biden. The dems wanted "passion" since obama laid an egg on that deal...they got it, not sure it came out right though. I'm pretty sure he couldn't have given many details because jb kept interrupting him.

I like how folks want SPECIFICS...ummmm if we knew that the country wouldn't be in the hole. I like Pubs ideas...hope they get the chance.

[pphilfran]

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/

http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/irans-ballistic-missile-capabilities/press-statement/

he possibility of chemical or biological warhead use cannot be excluded, although Iran is not known to possess such weapons and has forsworn them by treaty. Even if armed with chemical or biological warheads, however, the missiles could not reliably and predictably deliver enough warfare agent over a wide enough area to stop an adversary’s military operations. Moreover, Iran has too few missiles, TELs and trained launch crews to sustain the delivery of chemical agent to the battlefield for more than a few hours. Civil-defence measures can be effective in minimising potential casualties in urban areas.

Nuclear warheads have a much stronger strategic logic and all of Tehran’s ballistic missiles are inherently capable of a nuclear payload, if Iran is able to make a small enough bomb. The most likely delivery platforms for a notional Iranian nuclear weapon would be the Ghadr-1, and possibly the Shahab-3, although the solid-propellant Sajjil-2, once it becomes operational, may supplant its liquid-fuelled counterparts because it offers greater operational flexibility and possesses a superior range–payload capacity. The Sajjil was possibly designed with the knowledge that the first nuclear warhead could weigh one tonne or more, and thus the Ghadr-1 would be inadequate. The re-entry body configuration for either the Sajjil or the Ghadr, however, imposes difficult technical challenges for Iran, primarily because such a notional nuclear device would have to be small enough to fit within the existing 600mm payload bay.

While Iran is capable of designing a new warhead section for the Ghadr and Sajjil missiles, the overall mass of the new re-entry vehicle loaded with a notional nuclear weapon would likely exceed 1,200kg. In this case, the Ghadr-1 may not be capable of reaching targets in Israel without being fired from points very close to the Iran*–Iraq border, making the launcher and missile vulnerable to pre-emptive strikes. If this is indeed the case, development of the Sajjil-2 would assume greater priority, as this missile, once fully developed, would be capable of delivering payloads of up to 1,500kg to about 1,500km, and would thus be suitable for threatening Israel, Turkey and most of the Arabian Peninsula.

[BigTip]

. Ryan just appeared tense to me. .

You would be tense too if there was a little dog right next to your ear yapping away.

I thought he look very composed considering the circumstances.

[OU_Sooners75]

1. It has been widely speculated that US special forces have been behind a number of bombings in Iran that have taken down power lines to Iran nuclear production facilities.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4283797,00.html

On top of that we have ongoing cyber attacks against their production facilities. US sanctions are killing the Iranian economy. Their currency is in a free fall.

2. The Obama administration has systematically targeted and taken down AQ and Taliban leadership in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Against advice they named the Haqqani Organization terrorist ( something Bush did not do) and have begun killing their leadership.

3. He has kept up drone attacks in the Horn of Africa and killed the top 3 targets on our hit list.

I could go on.

Please do go on. This is fun.

Fun as in how you really believe that its the Obama policy?

Let's talk about Chris Stevens for a bit. And how he requested additional protection, yet didn't receive it from the state department. Or how the Obama administration came out saying it wasn't a terrorist attack, but was pissed off protestors that stemmed from a youtube movie trailer that had only a handful of views before the killing of our !mbassador to Lybia.

Then let's talk about how Obama apologized for American rights! How he apologizes for anything in the Middle East that causes them to hate on us even more.

Then we can talk about his failed promises of getting America on the path to energy independence.

I could go on as well.

[OU_Sooners75]

See when I see Ryan he dodging questions and lying just like Romney did. I like Biden being funny and witty and yes I would take a funny and witty president.

I posted a thread about this very subject and no liberal could give a very good and factual response.

So since you seem like a raging liberal and a smart person, by all means instead of following the liberal agenda of saying romney and ryan are lying, tell us what they are lying about.

If you can't answer with ACTUAL FACTS then don't answer at all.


I'm guessing like the many libtards here, you will be unable to give ACTUAL FACTS about what they are lying about.

[FaninAma]

This debate won't make or break the election.

I really was hoping Biden would pull one of his usual boners.

Instead he got the best comeback. "Oh, so now you're Jack Kennedy??"

5-0

That was weak. Everybody knew he was trying to conjure the ghost of Lloyd Bentsen. But hey, what else would you expect from Plagerizing Joe Biden?

[FaninAma]

Romney ran over that poor old moderator in his debate and was called forceful and in charge.

Biden laughed and called Ryan on his BS and is being called mean and smug?

Lets be honest here we are pre-biased in how you view the debate anyways. Ryan lost this debate. He look foolish at times.

Romney did it in a way that didn't look like a bipolar Tourette's patient who had forgotten to take his Respiridol.

[Skysooner]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Anyone who paid attention to a hearing in Congress this week knew that the administration had been implored to beef up security at the U.S. Consulate in Libya before the deadly terrorist attack there. But in the vice presidential debate Thursday night, Joe Biden seemed unaware.

"We weren't told they wanted more security there," the vice president asserted flatly. During a night in which Biden and Republican rival Paul Ryan both drifted from the facts on a range of domestic and foreign issues, that was a standout.

A look at some of their claims:

BIDEN: "Well, we weren't told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly — we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view."

RYAN: "There were requests for more security."

THE FACTS: Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama administration officials at the hearing a day earlier.

Charlene R. Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary for diplomatic security, told lawmakers she refused requests for more security in Benghazi, saying the department wanted to train Libyans to protect the consulate. "Yes, sir, I said personally I would not support it," she said.

Eric Nordstrom, who was the top security official in Libya earlier this year, testified he was criticized for seeking more security. He said conversations he had with people in Washington led him to believe that it was "abundantly clear we were not going to get resources until the aftermath of an incident. How thin does the ice have to get before someone falls through?"

He said his exasperation reached a point where he told a colleague that "for me the Taliban is on the inside of the building."

___

RYAN: "Look at just the $90 billion in stimulus the vice president was in charge of overseeing — this $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups."

THE FACTS: Dismissing an entire package of energy stimulus grants and loans as "green pork" ignores the help that was given to people to make their homes more energy efficient, grants to public entities constructing high speed rail lines and tax credits to manufacturers to install equipment fostering cleaner energy.

To be sure, there were notable failed investments, such as $528 million to the politically connected and now-bankrupt solar power company Solyndra. But Ryan's claim made it sound like every penny went down the drain.

More broadly, economists are nearly universal in saying President Barack Obama's $800 billion-plus stimulus passed in early 2009 helped create both public-sector and private-sector jobs, even if they fell short of what sponsors had hoped. Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, estimated the stimulus saved or created more than 3 million jobs.

___

BIDEN: "We went out and rescued General Motors."

THE FACTS: Actually, the auto bailout of General Motors and Chrysler began under President George W. Bush. The Obama administration continued and expanded it.

___ RYAN: "And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. This board, by the way, it's 15 people, the president's supposed to appoint them next year. And not one of them even has to have medical training."

THE FACTS: Ryan is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, created under Obama's health care overhaul law. It has the power to force cuts in Medicare payments to service providers if costs rise above certain levels and Congress fails to act. But it doesn't look like the board will be cutting Medicare "each and every year," as Ryan asserts. Medicare costs are currently rising modestly and the government's own experts project the board's intervention will not be needed until 2018 or 2019 at the earliest — after Obama leaves office if re-elected to a second term.

___

BIDEN, when asked who would pay more taxes in Obama's second term: "People making a million dollars or more."

THE FACTS: Obama's proposed tax increase reaches farther down the income ladder than millionaires. He wants to roll back Bush-era tax cuts for individuals making more than $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000.

___

RYAN: "We cannot allow Iran to gain a nuclear weapons capability. Now, let's take a look at where we've gone — come from. When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material — nuclear material — to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five. They're racing toward a nuclear weapon. They're four years closer toward a nuclear weapons capability."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim is misleading. Iran isn't believed to have produced any of the highly enriched uranium needed to produce even one nuclear weapon, let alone five. That point isn't even disputed by Israel, whose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored the world at the United Nations last month to create a "red line" at enrichment above 20 percent. Iran would have to enrich uranium at much higher levels to produce a weapon. There is intelligence suggesting that Iran has worked on weapon designs, but not that it has developed a delivery system for any potential nuclear warhead.

___

BIDEN: "What we did is, we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare."

THE FACTS: Contrary to Biden's assertion, not all the money cut from Medicare is going back into the program in some other way. The administration is cutting $716 billion over 10 years in Medicare payments to providers and using some of the money to improve benefits under the program. But most of the money is being used to expand health care coverage outside of Medicare.

___

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.

___

BIDEN: "Romney said 'No, let Detroit go bankrupt.'"

THE FACTS: GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney has gotten endless grief through the campaign for the headline put on a November 2008 opinion essay he wrote for The New York Times. But his point was never that he wanted the auto industry to go down the tubes.

Romney opposed using government money to bail out Chrysler and General Motors, instead favoring privately financed bankruptcy restructuring. His prescription seemed improbable. Automakers were hemorrhaging cash and the banking system was in crisis, so private money wasn't available. Without the government money, it's likely both companies would have gone out of business. Romney did propose government-guaranteed private loans for both companies after bankruptcy.

___

RYAN: "We should have spoken out right away when the green revolution was up and starting, when the mullahs in Iran were attacking their people. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people."

THE FACTS: Neither Obama nor anyone else in his administration ever considered the Syrian leader a "reformer." The oft-repeated charge stems from an interview Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton gave in March 2011 noting that "many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he's a reformer." She did not endorse that view. The comment was widely perceived to be a knock at senators, such as John Kerry of Massachusetts, who maintained cordial relations with Assad in the months leading up to his crackdown on protesters.

___

BIDEN: "It is the responsibility of the Afghans to take care of their own security ... If the (training) measures the military has taken do not take hold, we will not go on joint patrols. We will not train in the field. We'll only train in the — in the Army bases that exist there. But we are leaving. We are leaving in 2014. Period."

THE FACTS: Biden's assertion oversimplifies the process of winding down the Afghan war. Although most U.S. troops will leave by the end of 2014, thousands are likely to stay and continue a U.S. presence for years. There is no telling what fighting they might be drawn into, despite the decision to end the U.S. combat role. Analysts say the U.S. envisions a post-2014 force of as many as 20,000 American troops to continue training the Afghan forces, hunt terrorists and keep watch on Iran and other nations in the region.

___

RYAN: "This one tax would actually tax about 53 percent of small-business income."

BIDEN: "Ninety-seven percent of the small businesses in America pay less — make less than $250,000."

THE FACTS: Both are correct, but incomplete, when sizing up the effect on small business of raising taxes for individuals making more than $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000, as Obama wants to do. Republicans say that would hit small-business owners who report business income on their individual income tax; Democrats say the overwhelming majority of small businesses would not be affected.

According to a 2010 report by the Joint Committee on Taxation, the official scorekeeper for Congress, about 3 percent of people who report business income would face a tax increase under Obama's plan. That support's Biden's point.

The same report says those business owners account for about half of all business income. That supports Ryan.

___

RYAN: Notes that there have been four rounds of U.N. sanctions on Iran to deter its nuclear program, three during the Bush administration and one under Obama. "And the only reason we got it is because Russia watered it down and prevented the sanctions from hitting the central bank. Mitt Romney proposed these sanctions in 2007. In Congress, I've been fighting for these sanctions since 2009. The administration was blocking us every step of the way." He also noted the administration has granted 20 waivers to the sanctions.

THE FACTS: The argument that the administration was watering down or delaying sanctions is misleading. For sanctions to work, they need maximum global agreement and cooperation. Russia watered down U.N. sanctions not only under Obama but also under Bush. And it's highly unlikely that a Romney administration, particularly led by a candidate who says Russia is the biggest geostrategic threat to the U.S., would be able to get Russia completely on board with what the U.S. wants — either on Iran or Syria.

The more absolute U.S. sanctions that Ryan and others have pushed in Congress would have punished U.S. allies, including most countries in Europe as well as Japan and South Korea, along with good friends like India and Singapore — without the exemptions that were put in place.

The administration has indeed granted 20 waivers, to countries that made significant reductions in Iranian oil imports. And the sanctions are pinching; Iran has been convulsed over the past week with protests over the collapse of its currency, which most people say is a direct result of the sanctions that the U.S. and others have imposed.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gadgcNnTl6PgANX5i8optPvgFqmw?docId=1ace55de0 e834a34a3110eaa76aa3ad4

Saw this earlier today. Basically they both did what all good pols do which is lie and look good doing it. Although reading this, there was nothing too extreme about it.

[KantoSooner]

They both did what good debaters do: they shaded issues and talked around or over inconvenient facts. Ryan appeared to me to have the better command of facts and a far superior memory. Biden, on the other hand, was tactically superior, if obnoxious.

Had he been quizzed at length, I think Ryan would have been able to explain his oversimplifications. Biden? I'm not sure he even knew he was eliding the truth; the man has, at best, a nodding relationship with objective reality.

[SoonerLaw09]

http://movietajm.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/20120210-200322.jpg

"Everything that guy just said is bull$*%t. Thank you."

[SanJoaquinSooner]

"Everything that guy just said is bull$*%t. Thank you."

is that verse from the old testament or the new testament?

[MamaMia]

Bidens behavior was completely disrespectful, not only to Ryan, but more importantly to the viewers who wanted some real answers. For him to laugh, grin and smirk about such important issues that involve the lives of all Americans was in extremely poor taste. The only thing most Americans are going to remember is that Joe Biden laughed like an imbecile during the entire program. I kept thinking how much he reminded me of some crazy albino monkey. What a tool.

[Turd_Ferguson]

is that verse from the old testament or the new testament?Spqeaking of albino monkey tool...

[12]

Biden's teeth are so white they are voting for Romney.

[soonercruiser]

My prediction for the next SNL!

They will have a parody of the VP debate where Joe goes off the deep end, and either the moderator or Ryan will slap Joe out of his chair. And they will both laugh!

:boxing:

[diverdog]

See in red:


Please do go on. This is fun.

Fun as in how you really believe that its the Obama policy?

Those aren't policies they are facts and I can back every single one of them.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/the-terrorist-notches-on-obamas-belt/

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4283797,00.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/08/us-usa-security-haqqani-idUSBRE88606I20120908

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/21/obama-administration-building-new-drone-bases-in-horn-africa-saudi/

Let's talk about Chris Stevens for a bit. And how he requested additional protection, yet didn't receive it from the state department. Or how the Obama administration came out saying it wasn't a terrorist attack, but was pissed off protestors that stemmed from a youtube movie trailer that had only a handful of views before the killing of our !mbassador to Lybia.

Okay lets talk about Chris Stevens. He was in a war zone, a dangerous place and he knew it. Could he have been saved if there were more personnel around maybe or maybe not. We just had several Marines killed and 5 Harrier Jets destroyed at Camp Bastion where we have some of the highest security in the world. Even that did not stop saboteurs from getting in and killing a few soldiers and destroying military equipment. So you and everyone else that is speculating on this attack cannot provide one shred of proof that additional personnel would have saved the man. I am sorry but people die in bad places and I have no idea if we could have saved him or not. Maybe he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Hopefully we can learn from this and move on. And yes people should be held accountable, we should listen to boots on the ground, but ultimately I have no idea if it would have made any difference. We could have ended up with another Mogadishu.

And the Republicans bear some culpability here as well:


For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department's Worldwide Security Protection program -- well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration's request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration's request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans' proposed cuts to her department would be "detrimental to America's national security" -- a charge Republicans rejected.
Ryan, Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions. Under Ryan's budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security.

Then let's talk about how Obama apologized for American rights! How he apologizes for anything in the Middle East that causes them to hate on us even more.

You guys on the right act like Obama is the first President to apologize for American. So where were you when GWB apologized to the Chinese for bringing down our spy plane or his apology to the Iraqi people for an American soldier shooting a Koran for target practice? How about Reagan's laying of a wreath at Kolmeshohe Cemetery at Bitburg. (That was pretty damn consolatory for an American President) From time to time American Presidents will apologize and I think this is a sign of strength not weakness. This is a non-issue and more faux outrage and a double standard on the part of the far right.

Then we can talk about his failed promises of getting America on the path to energy independence.

Tell me exactly what the Republican plan is for energy independence? I wait in anticipation for an answer.

I could go on as well.

[diverdog]

My prediction for the next SNL!

They will have a parody of the VP debate where Joe goes off the deep end, and either the moderator or Ryan will slap Joe out of his chair. And they will both laugh!

:boxing:

I think you are right. Should be fun.

[OU_Sooners75]

See in red:

Ok diverdick...

What makes you think I'm a rightie?

Because I'm against Obama and his failed policies and empty leadership?

There is a difference in apologizing for things that actually call for an apology and apologizing for something that an american citizen says or does.

There should NEVER be an apology made from any American President when it comes to any of our freedoms and/or liberties, PERIOD!!!

And only an apathetic ***** would think its okay to apologize for our values!!!

I don't know what the repiblican plan is. But I can almost certainly say it doesn't include shtting down oil exploration on both the Pacific and Altantic coasts. Not impeding the Keystone pipeline to appease environmentallist supporters.

I'm also certain it wouldn't include trying to shut down the coal industry by over regulating it to death.

I'm pretty sure it will be for allowing for more NG exploration. And shrinking some government lands so exploraion can get to the energy fuels.

Idk, I bet they won't have to be taken to the US Supreme court to open the Gulf Coast.

[Mazeppa]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gadgcNnTl6PgANX5i8optPvgFqmw?docId=1ace55de0 e834a34a3110eaa76aa3ad4

Saw this earlier today. Basically they both did what all good pols do which is lie and look good doing it. Although reading this, there was nothing too extreme about it.

Did you copy and paste that?

[bssooner1]

You people who think Iran has a nuclear weapon or will so soon likely believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction even after it was proven wrong.

Sorry to disagree with the Republican majority, but this was not a close debate. Biden smoked little boy Ryan. Yes Romney won over OBA last week but to call our VP an idiot is about the silliest thing I've heard in a while.

[OU_Sooners75]

You people who think Iran has a nuclear weapon or will so soon likely believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction even after it was proven wrong.

Sorry to disagree with the Republican majority, but this was not a close debate. Biden smoked little boy Ryan. Yes Romney won over OBA last week but to call our VP an idiot is about the silliest thing I've heard in a while.

Biden didn't smoke anything but his bases pole!

And for those that think Iran isn't very close to being able to make weapon grade uranium is being foolish.

[Mazeppa]

You people who think Iran has a nuclear weapon or will so soon likely believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction even after it was proven wrong.

Sorry to disagree with the Republican majority, but this was not a close debate. Biden smoked little boy Ryan. Yes Romney won over OBA last week but to call our VP an idiot is about the silliest thing I've heard in a while.

Sorry to disagree with your post, but that is the silliest thing I've read in a while. Biden is an "idiot" and he proved it to the Republican majority and the Democrat majority during the debate. And the little boy Ryan was not what he was smokin'.

[BigTip]

Biden didn't smoke anything but his bases pole!

And for those that think Iran isn't very close to being able to make weapon grade uranium is being foolish.

Even Iran admits where they are on that, but insists it's for energy purpose.

[smooth3d]

I posted a thread about this very subject and no liberal could give a very good and factual response.

So since you seem like a raging liberal and a smart person, by all means instead of following the liberal agenda of saying romney and ryan are lying, tell us what they are lying about.

If you can't answer with ACTUAL FACTS then don't answer at all.


I'm guessing like the many libtards here, you will be unable to give ACTUAL FACTS about what they are lying about.

I did not disrespect you or call anybody names in this forum. So please extend me the same respect. Ryan and Romney keep saying what needs to be fixed etc. But do not give any concrete solutions on how to fix our economy. Romney says one thing then on a debate says another. I'm not going waste my time to give you examples because in the end you going to believe what you what too. So why waste my time? I wonder how do you know I'm a liberal, You seem to know so much about me SMH...


Romney did it in a way that didn't look like a bipolar Tourette's patient who had forgotten to take his Respiridol.

Once again it's all about perception, You seen what you wanted to see out of Romney. I seen what I wanted to see out of Biden. We both could be right or wrong doesn't matter.

[Mazeppa]

http://i49.tinypic.com/160bmt5.jpg

[Mazeppa]

Even Iran admits where they are on that, but insists it's for energy purpose.

That really puts my mind at ease.

[OU_Sooners75]

I did not disrespect you or call anybody names in this forum. So please extend me the same respect. Ryan and Romney keep saying what needs to be fixed etc. But do not give any concrete solutions on how to fix our economy. Romney says one thing then on a debate says another. I'm not going waste my time to give you examples because in the end you going to believe what you what too. So why waste my time? I wonder how do you know I'm a liberal, You seem to know so much about me SMH...



Once again it's all about perception, You seen what you wanted to see out of Romney. I seen what I wanted to see out of Biden. We both could be right or wrong doesn't matter.

Are you not one?

I never called you a liberal. I did say you seem to be one (by how you came across in your posts.

I also never called you any names.

And thick skin. Its a political forum. And politics takes thick skin.

And fianlly:

What Romney and Ryan have both said, they want to set the framework. They also want to get input from across the aisle to make solutions that each party can live with.

You can't really give concrete details for solutions when your goal is to set frameworks. It doesn't mean they are setting empty gestures either.

You can't try to be bipartisan, if you go at it closed minded. Ala Obama!

[olevetonahill]

You people who think Iran has a nuclear weapon or will so soon likely believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction even after it was proven wrong.

Sorry to disagree with the Republican majority, but this was not a close debate. Biden smoked little boy Ryan. Yes Romney won over OBA last week but to call our VP an idiot is about the silliest thing I've heard in a while.


I did not disrespect you or call anybody names in this forum. So please extend me the same respect. Ryan and Romney keep saying what needs to be fixed etc. But do not give any concrete solutions on how to fix our economy. Romney says one thing then on a debate says another. I'm not going waste my time to give you examples because in the end you going to believe what you what too. So why waste my time? I wonder how do you know I'm a liberal, You seem to know so much about me SMH...



Once again it's all about perception, You seen what you wanted to see out of Romney. I seen what I wanted to see out of Biden. We both could be right or wrong doesn't matter.



Wonder why the nOObs are comin out the wood work like little Cockroaches ?

Id venture MOST here and in America believed Saddam had those weapons, Even the Majority of congress who Voted for us to go in and Kick his ***, You Know folks like Billiary, Kerry, Obama, Oh wait Obammy was still an community organizer then :chuncky:

So Yall nOObs can Kiss my grits

[hawaii 5-0]

So much for your idea that 'Nuff was said. 8 pages worth of blather and whining.

I predict there will be more.

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[olevetonahill]

So much for your idea that 'Nuff was said. 8 pages worth of blather and whining.

I predict there will be more.

5-0

Most been agreeing with me, a few Idiots like you are arguing with them about it.

[SCOUT]

Vice President or not we ARE talking about Joe Biden here. Aren't we ??

He's got a history of tasting his foot.

5-0

But it is acceptable because it is "Uncle Joe?"

[olevetonahill]

But it is acceptable because it is "Uncle Joe?"

Heh, Do a GIS for "Uncle Joe" and ya get this
http://cdn.ricochet.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/uncle-joe/2384362-1-eng-US/Uncle-Joe_lightbox.jpg

[SCOUT]

His party didn't vote for his budget. If he wins, I'm going to hope he actually does something. If Romney wins, this needs to be bipartisan. The really bad thing is the lame duck Congress has to do something about the manadatory cuts coming up soon, or we will see the economy in the tank again soon.

I laugh, in a sad way, each time someone mentions the budget.

[MamaMia]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/albinomonkey.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/biden.jpg

[olevetonahill]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/albinomonkey.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/biden.jpg

Are you being Racist? :welcoming:

[hawaii 5-0]

Most been agreeing with me, a few Idiots like you are arguing with them about it.



Actually I haven't done much arguing.

Just stating my opinion.

My thoughts, others' thoughtst won't change anything.

No need to argue, 'cept about 'Nuff said.

I think 8 pages makes my case.

5-0

[diverdog]

Ok diverdick...

What makes you think I'm a rightie?

Because I'm against Obama and his failed policies and empty leadership?

There is a difference in apologizing for things that actually call for an apology and apologizing for something that an american citizen says or does.

There should NEVER be an apology made from any American President when it comes to any of our freedoms and/or liberties, PERIOD!!!

And only an apathetic ***** would think its okay to apologize for our values!!!

I don't know what the repiblican plan is. But I can almost certainly say it doesn't include shtting down oil exploration on both the Pacific and Altantic coasts. Not impeding the Keystone pipeline to appease environmentallist supporters.

I'm also certain it wouldn't include trying to shut down the coal industry by over regulating it to death.

I'm pretty sure it will be for allowing for more NG exploration. And shrinking some government lands so exploraion can get to the energy fuels.

Idk, I bet they won't have to be taken to the US Supreme court to open the Gulf Coast.


Whatever.

[diverdog]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/albinomonkey.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/biden.jpg

Its funny looking at some of these pictures. At a base level it is pretty clear we are not that far removed from our simian ancestory. :)

[Skysooner]

Did you copy and paste that?

Yes, in response to something. It was also from a non-biased news source, and I have been participating in the discussion on this thread. I don't post thread after thread of news sources and then leave them alone. I'm actively engaged. There is the big difference.

[olevetonahill]

Actually I haven't done much arguing.

Just stating my opinion.

My thoughts, others' thoughtst won't change anything.

No need to argue, 'cept about 'Nuff said.

I think 8 pages makes my case.

5-0

I dint say YOU . I said Idiots Like YOU
Pay tention

[cleller]

Biden's church is pissed at him even more now. During the debate Biden said this:

“With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution—Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital—none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide,” he said. “That is a fact. That is a fact.”

The Catholic Conference of Bishops fired back that he was lying:

"This is not a fact. The HHS mandate contains a narrow, four-part exemption for certain “religious employers.“ That exemption was made final in February and does not extend to ”Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital,” or any other religious charity that offers its services to all, regardless of the faith of those served.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/catholic-bishops-issue-scathing-release-calling-bidens-contraception-claim-not-a-fact/

[Skysooner]

Biden's church is pissed at him even more now. During the debate Biden said this:

“With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution—Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital—none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide,” he said. “That is a fact. That is a fact.”

The Catholic Conference of Bishops fired back that he was lying:

"This is not a fact. The HHS mandate contains a narrow, four-part exemption for certain “religious employers.“ That exemption was made final in February and does not extend to ”Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital,” or any other religious charity that offers its services to all, regardless of the faith of those served.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/catholic-bishops-issue-scathing-release-calling-bidens-contraception-claim-not-a-fact/

What I find funny about the whole thing is the majority of Catholics in this country do not follow the anti-contraception edict. This should have been fixed a long time ago. The Pope invalidated the findings of the special counsel at the behest of the leadership of the Catholic Church to validate the leadership of the office. Most US clergy don't follow it or encourage it in private anymore. All of this uproar over a policy that most church members don't follow.

[LiveLaughLove]

What I find funny about the whole thing is the majority of Catholics in this country do not follow the anti-contraception edict. This should have been fixed a long time ago. The Pope invalidated the findings of the special counsel at the behest of the leadership of the Catholic Church to validate the leadership of the office. Most US clergy don't follow it or encourage it in private anymore. All of this uproar over a policy that most church members don't follow.

Most people at every church commit sin. Doesn't mean the church should just go ahead and condone it.

I'm not a catholic so I am not against contraception, but the church is. It should have the decisive say on the matter.

[Skysooner]

Most people at every church commit sin. Doesn't mean the church should just go ahead and condone it.

I'm not a Catholic so I am not against contraception, but the church is. It should have the decisive say on the matter.

Actually I was married in the Catholic church and have read quite a lot on this. It is up to the members to reform the church when the church leadership is wrong. It was dissent in the Catholic church that caused the Protestant Reformation. In this, I think the leadership has its head up its collective a** and should have changed a long time ago. Most of us that went through the Catholic marriage training were secretly laughing at the couple they used to explain how the rhythm method worked.

[Blue]

ALL people at every church commit sin. Doesn't mean the church should just go ahead and condone it.

I'm not a catholic so I am not against contraception, but the church is. It should have the decisive say on the matter.

FIFY.

And I'll hold my tongue on the Catholics.

[SoonerLaw09]

is that verse from the old testament or the new testament?

*Sigh*. I guess I have to spell it out for you. This was intended as a humorous ironic take on Biden's repeated mantra throughout the debate. Try and keep up.

As for chapter and verse, try Proverbs 26:5.

[LiveLaughLove]

FIFY.

And I'll hold my tongue on the Catholics.

Right you are blue. I misstated.

[hawaii 5-0]

FIFY.

And I'll hold my tongue on the Catholics.


I used my tongue on a Catholic once.

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[olevetonahill]

I used my tongue on a Catholic once.

5-0

The Priest Like it?

[okiewaker]

Definitely an idiot because too old to be ignorant.

[hawaii 5-0]

The Priest Like it?

Your smack is soooo bush.

Try some better material.

5-0

[MamaMia]

Until 1930, all churches were against artificial birth control. Nowadays I believe its mainly the Catholic religion thats holds on to the belief that using birth control is a sin. Fast forward to today...90% of all Catholic women of child bearing age practice birth control. That may be one of the reasons that only 45% of Catholics still go to confession. I stopped going to confession for that very reason, as did several of my Catholic friends, both male and female. I don't think the church is ever going to change its view on the subject because the bible is very clear about that. I'm not going to change my religion based on one thing though.

[olevetonahill]

Your smack is soooo bush.

Try some better material.

5-0


You leave yerself wide open and thats all ya got to come back with?:very_drunk:

[hawaii 5-0]

I try to not smack fellow sooners.

I'll leave the cheap shots to the toddlers.


5-0

[olevetonahill]

I try to not smack fellow sooners.

I'll leave the cheap shots to the toddlers.


5-0

Yea right.

[soonercruiser]

Until 1930, all churches were against artificial birth control. Nowadays I believe its mainly the Catholic religion thats holds on to the belief that using birth control is a sin. Fast forward to today...90% of all Catholic women of child bearing age practice birth control. That may be one of the reasons that only 45% of Catholics still go to confession. I stopped going to confession for that very reason, as did several of my Catholic friends, both male and female. I don't think the church is ever going to change its view on the subject because the bible is very clear about that. I'm not going to change my religion based on one thing though.

THIS^^^^


I expect Californication to approve marriage between a "person" and a pet within 5 years!
(Poor pets) :nonchalance:

[soonercruiser]

Back to the subject at hand.....good ole Joe...."say it ain't JoeBo"!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn212/SoonerCruiser_photos/Political/ClownBiden_zpsfb7b2c18.gif

[Soonerjeepman]

Actually I was married in the Catholic church and have read quite a lot on this. It is up to the members to reform the church when the church leadership is wrong. It was dissent in the Catholic church that caused the Protestant Reformation. In this, I think the leadership has its head up its collective a** and should have changed a long time ago. Most of us that went through the Catholic marriage training were secretly laughing at the couple they used to explain how the rhythm method worked.

so how is the church leadership wrong? I'm assuming ...just by your words...you are not Catholic but married a Catholic ...?....So you, who isn't Catholic wants to say the Catholic leadership has their head up their a$$...nice. As a Catholic I take offense to that, especially since you are not.

[olevetonahill]

so how is the church leadership wrong? I'm assuming ...just by your words...you are not Catholic but married a Catholic ...?....So you, who isn't Catholic wants to say the Catholic leadership has their head up their a$$...nice. As a Catholic I take offense to that, especially since you are not.

I think he was raised a Papist, not sure tho
I wernt tho and Ill say they nuttier than squirrel shat in a pistachio factory
Those Papist leaders have their small heads up someones as$ tho.

[hawaii 5-0]

Yea right.


I don't blame you for not noticing.


I've also never given Neg spek despite your two Beavis and Butthead friends who have nothing better to do.

5-0

[olevetonahill]

I don't blame you for not noticing.


I've also never given Neg spek despite your two Beavis and Butthead friends who have nothing better to do.

5-0

Ill bet who ever yer talkin about is the only ones who have EVER negged ya?:barbershop_quartet_

Please dont even try to tell me that YOU have never dished out a Bit of Smack. :congratulatory:

[hawaii 5-0]

"Never say never." that's what Grandpappy always said.

Sometimes some creative smack is warranted. Even encouraged.

Insulting someone just because they express their opinion is, well.........ya know.

Attack the message not the messenger.

Unless they're a public figure. Then they're fair game.

5-0

[Breadburner]

The Priest Like it?

Awesome....!!!

[Skysooner]

so how is the church leadership wrong? I'm assuming ...just by your words...you are not Catholic but married a Catholic ...?....So you, who isn't Catholic wants to say the Catholic leadership has their head up their a$$...nice. As a Catholic I take offense to that, especially since you are not.

I'm going back 50 years on this. Yes, I married a Catholic, and her whole family are Catholics. I attended Catholic churches for 5 years after we were married until she didn't want to go anymore. I never converted, but I am very familiar with Catholicism. None of her family follows the stricture on birth control. Every single one of them voted for Obama the last time, and they are all native Oklahomans. I have tons of knowledge on the birth control issue, and the history of how the Papal commission was rejected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Commission_on_Birth_Control

I have also spent many hours talking with priests about this and did further reading upon their suggestion. I'm saying that the church leadership ignored what was happening in the church and the majority of the Papal commission. I, for one, do not see Christianity as Protestant and Catholic. I have studied many other religions extensively as well. I consider myself a very well-informed person on this subject, and I have tons of family that are Catholics. Are you saying that only Catholics can express opinions on Catholicism? If so, I have read or talked with many. Maybe this means that you aren't qualified to talk about progessives or liberals since you aren't one. Just saying.

[StoopTroup]

Wow. I thought Jesus was the one that was the one that had all the answers.

[StoopTroup]

Ill bet who ever yer talkin about is the only ones who have EVER negged ya?:barbershop_quartet_

Please dont even try to tell me that YOU have never dished out a Bit of Smack. :congratulatory:

I'm thinking he just did. You are calling him a liar. That's not very nice.

[hawaii 5-0]

Didja see the latest of Paul Ryan scrubbing pots in a soup kitchen?

Turns out it the meal was already over and he was scrubbing clean pots.

A photo op.

Nice try to look caring..

5-0