so what did Romney lie about in the debate?

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm curious.

[Skysooner]

Take this with a grain of salt. I just got back from a trip and haven't had time to tell whether this site is partisan or not, but it probably is.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/fact-check-romney-told-27-myths-38-minutes-during-debate

[OU_Sooners75]

Yeah, I would say that site is quite partisan to the liberal side of things.

Their election coverage I saw briefly is nothing but slamming Romney. They go into great detail about Dan Gainor, that is on O'Reilly's show sometimes on Fox News, being a hack for what he said about their news coverage about disbelieving the Pew Poll that came out Monday.

Anyway, yeah...not real interested in what a partisan site wants to say.

[Skysooner]

Yeah, I would say that site is quite partisan to the liberal side of things.

Their election coverage I saw briefly is nothing but slamming Romney. They go into great detail about Dan Gainor, that is on O'Reilly's show sometimes on Fox News, being a hack for what he said about their news coverage about disbelieving the Pew Poll that came out Monday.

Anyway, yeah...not real interested in what a partisan site wants to say.

I was trying to find it on factcheck, but I couldn't quite dial in. Unpacking, setting my Forex trades for the day and hitting the gym with my wife here shortly. Not enough time in the day plus traveling just makes me bleh.

[MountainOkie]

Take this with a grain of salt. I just got back from a trip and haven't had time to tell whether this site is partisan or not, but it probably is.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/fact-check-romney-told-27-myths-38-minutes-during-debate

Many of its citations are to Think Progress articles. So yeah, I'd say its partisan based.

[Skysooner]

Okay, here is the Factcheck on both of them. Much less partisan. Covers both of them.

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Number five, champion small business. It's small business that creates the jobs in America, and over the last four years, small business people have decided that America may not be the place to open a new business because new business startups are down to a 30-year low.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jared-bernstein/small-business-job-creation_b_1685869.html

[MountainOkie]

From the factcheck article it looks like it questions Romney on the following points:

1. It would be highly unlikely that he could keep both his promise to cut taxes on the middle class and reduce the deficit,
2. That a federal panel will tell Americans what treatments they can and cannot have under Obamacare,
3. It's not true that Obama doubled the federal deficit. (They then cite the annual deficit rather than the total deficit as proof which seems a little odd since I thought Romney was speaking of the total deficit.)
4. Romney said that middle-income Americans saw their income lowered by $4,300 under Obama. Factcheck advises it fell by $2,492. Later in the article they also give a $3,290 reduction as being another estimate of the reduction of family income under Obama.

Which one do you want to argue about?

[MountainOkie]

Correction #3 I confused deficit with debt.

[diverdog]

Its not so much that he lied but he changes positions with the shift in the wind. The man has no less than 9 different positions on abortion. How many positions does he have on healthcare? A million? First he was for banning pre-exsisting conditions...then he was for it....then against...then for it...then against it. You cannot believe a word out of his mouth. If I were a hard right conservative I would worry because he might turn out to be a moderate democrat if his track record is any indication of his future positions.

[MountainOkie]

Regarding #2,the IPAB is interesting. It's the board charged with reducing Medicare expenditure.

They aren't allowed to ration care, but they are required to meet cost reductions every year. Presumably this would be done by cutting payments to non-exempt providers and for non-exempt products (and in-patient after 2020). These non-exempt providers seem to include Doctors, prescription drugs, nursing and ambulance services.

So I suppose they won't ration care they'll just ask the physicians, drug companies and the like to perform the same services for less money.

[StoopTroup]

Repealing Obamacare.

[OU_Sooners75]

Its not so much that he lied but he changes positions with the shift in the wind. The man has no less than 9 different positions on abortion. How many positions does he have on healthcare? A million? First he was for banning pre-exsisting conditions...then he was for it....then against...then for it...then against it. You cannot believe a word out of his mouth. If I were a hard right conservative I would worry because he might turn out to be a moderate democrat if his track record is any indication of his future positions.

And Obama hasn't?

He promised to close GITMO....opps.
He promised to get us on path to energy independence. Under his watch, we import more.
He promised quite a few things. He has also flip flopped on a lot. He has faile on quite a few.

Obama is a politician. And all politicians flip flop. Its the values or morals one has that I try to go with. Sometimes they dupe me.

[diverdog]

And Obama hasn't?

He promised to close GITMO....opps.
He promised to get us on path to energy independence. Under his watch, we import more.
He promised quite a few things. He has also flip flopped on a lot. He has faile on quite a few.

Obama is a politician. And all politicians flip flop. Its the values or morals one has that I try to go with. Sometimes they dupe me.

I will buy the bolded part.

[okie52]

Its not so much that he lied but he changes positions with the shift in the wind. The man has no less than 9 different positions on abortion. How many positions does he have on healthcare? A million? First he was for banning pre-exsisting conditions...then he was for it....then against...then for it...then against it. You cannot believe a word out of his mouth. If I were a hard right conservative I would worry because he might turn out to be a moderate democrat if his track record is any indication of his future positions.

Moderate democrat, eh? From my perspective that would be a hell of a lot better than Hussein.

[diverdog]

Moderate democrat, eh? From my perspective that would be a hell of a lot better than Hussein.

You have certainly gone off the deep end lately.

[KABOOKIE]

Repealing Obamacare.

Was that a debate item? All I see is a bunch of Romney this and Romney that. No evidence of lies. But that's what commies do when cornered. Liiiiiiiies! They are all liiiiiiiieeeees!

[okie52]

You have certainly gone off the deep end lately.

I just thought you needed company.

[MountainOkie]

Its not so much that he lied but he changes positions with the shift in the wind. The man has no less than 9 different positions on abortion. How many positions does he have on healthcare? A million? First he was for banning pre-exsisting conditions...then he was for it....then against...then for it...then against it. You cannot believe a word out of his mouth. If I were a hard right conservative I would worry because he might turn out to be a moderate democrat if his track record is any indication of his future positions.

From what I found it there was one change in his position on abortion in 2007 where he went pro-life due to a conversation with a stem cell researcher. What are the other instances?

[diverdog]

From what I found it there was one change in his position on abortion in 2007 where he went pro-life due to a conversation with a stem cell researcher. What are the other instances? Not repelling Roe v Wade after he said he would.

[diverdog]

I just thought you needed company.

For instance?

[okie52]

For instance?

Heh. You're voting for the worst energy president in history, aren't you?

[diverdog]

Heh. You're voting for the worst energy president in history, aren't you?

How is he worse than Carter or Nixon?

[Skysooner]

Heh. You're voting for the worst energy president in history, aren't you?

Overstatement by a long shot. Think back to Carter.

[MountainOkie]

Not repelling Roe v Wade after he said he would.

I don't understand how could he repeal Roe v. Wade? It was a federal judicial decision.

Was this as governor?

[okie52]

Overstatement by a long shot. Think back to Carter.

Diver and sky-

Not an overstatement at all. Carter was bad and the windfall profits tax was a destructive policy but Obama campaigned for them. Carter wasn't trying to curtail domestic oil and gas production as Obama has sought to do with cap and trade and closing the Atlantic and pacific oceans to exploration. He wasn't trying to remove oil and gas deductions. He, along with Nixon, was pushing the country to move to coal for electrical generation because of its abundance and it being inexpensive. Now carter did also do this for some wrong reasons because he also wanted to move away from nukes whereas Nixon was for utilizing all energy sources....sound familiar?

But back then we could only lessen our dependence on foreign oil not eliminate it because we didn't have the technologies we have now. Now we have a real opportunity to be totally energy independent. At the very least in the short term we could be North American independent by eliminating all foreign oil imports except those from Mexico and Canada but obama's policies will never allow for that.

42% less permits issued by Obama than W. Obama immediately reneged on the Utah lease sales when he took office. He killed yucca without a replacement after it had been approved by the national academy of science, 4 presidents, 23 congresses and his own energy secretary just 8 months before he took office. His EPA appointments have been anti oil and gas. He blocked keystone. He doubled the federally protected acreage to prevent exploration on them. Federal Oil and gas lease bonuses dropped from 9.6 billion under bush in 2008 to 36 million in 2011 under Obama. He was ordered twice by federal
Court to reopen the gulf or be found in contempt. He has done nothing for natural gas development other than have the EPA try to discredit fracking or reduce its use. Heh, yet he's a natural gas guy.

I was in the oil and gas industry in the 70's and I remember our disdain for carter but nothing like the contempt that most oilies have now for Obama...I remember the gas rationing in Tx under carter in the late 70s. Gas lines, even/odd days for purchasing gas, gas stations closed on weekends...but I didn't blame carter for that because the domestic oil and gas industry was just reawakening after years of dormancy due to low oil prices.
That, again, is not the case with Obama. We have the oil prices, demand, the technology and the resources to be making great strides towards energy independence and Obama wants to kill the golden goose while replacing it with energy fantasies that would never approach our needs domestically.

I'm just sorry I missed obama's important arrival at Cushing to "help" us with our southern leg of the pipeline to the gulf. Of course we didn't need any help from Obama on the southern leg but his photo session proves he's there to help us...just like he has been on just about every oil and gas issue. I'll take carter in 77 any day over the mindless ideologue that currently occupies the white house.

[diverdog]

Diver and sky-

Not an overstatement at all. Carter was bad and the windfall profits tax was a destructive policy but Obama campaigned for them. Carter wasn't trying to curtail domestic oil and gas production as Obama has sought to do with cap and trade and closing the Atlantic and pacific oceans to exploration. He wasn't trying to remove oil and gas deductions. He, along with Nixon, was pushing the country to move to coal for electrical generation because of its abundance and it being inexpensive. Now carter did also do this for some wrong reasons because he also wanted to move away from nukes whereas Nixon was for utilizing all energy sources....sound familiar?

But back then we could only lessen our dependence on foreign oil not eliminate it because
We didn't have the technologies we have now. Now we have a real opportunity to be totally energy independent. At the very least in the short term we could be northamerican independent by eliminating all foreign oil imports except those from Mexico and Canada but obama's policies will never allow for that.

42% less permits issued by Obama than W. Obama immediately reneged on the Utah lease sales when he took office. He killed yucca without a replacement after it had been approved by the national academy of science, 4 presidents, 23 congresses and his own energy secretary just 8 months before he took office. His EPA appointments have been anti oil and gas. He blocked keystone. He doubled the federally protected acreage to prevent exploration on them. Federal Oil and gas lease bonuses dropped from 9.6 billion under bush in 2008 to 36 million in 2011 under Obama. He was ordered twice by federal
Court to reopen the gulf or be found in contempt. He has done nothing for natural gas
Development other than have the EPA try to discredit fracking or reduce its use. Heh, yet he's a natural gas guy.

I was in the oil and gas industry in the 70's and I remember our disdain for carter but nothing like the contempt that most oilies have now for Obama...I remember the gas rationing in Tx under carter in the late 70s. Gas lines, even/odd days for purchasing gas, gas stations closed on weekends...but I didn't blame carter for that because the domestic
Oil and gas industry was just reawakening after years of dormancy due to low oil prices.
That, again, is not the case with Obama. We have the oil prices, demand, the technology and the resources to be making great strides towards energy independence and Obama wants to kill the golden goose while replacing it with energy fantasies that would never
approach our needs domestically.

I'm just sorry I missed obama's important arrival at Cushing to "help" us with our southern leg of the pipeline to the gulf. Of course we didn't need any help from Obama on the southern leg but his photo session proves he's there to help us...just like he has been on just about every oil and gas issue. I'll take carter in 77 any day over the mindless ideologue that currently occupies the white house.

Thanks okie for some good info.

DD