This is why Mike Stoops was brought back...

[ObiKaTony]

Despite not having "his" players and FAR from perfect, this defense is 10x more fundamentally sound than a year prior. Look for better results next year and the years after. Future looks very bright...

[ELP Sooner]

I can't believe what I am seeing. The turnaround is incredible.

[StoopTroup]

Despite not having "his" players and FAR from perfect, this defense is 10x more fundamentally sound than a year prior. Look for better results next year and the years after. Future looks very bright...

Don't get to carried away. We play a big game next week.

What we saw in the 4th qtr against KSU wasn't why we brought Mike back.

[StoopTroup]

We do seem to have picked up some confidence today and I really like that. Having the Offense put points on the board has really taken the heat off.

[zeptrey]

Where is Wort? And who is Frank Shannon?

[zeptrey]

There's Wort...missing tackles.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Despite not having "his" players and FAR from perfect, this defense is 10x more fundamentally sound than a year prior. Look for better results next year and the years after. Future looks very bright...

The only "real" difference from last year to this year is the position swap of Jefferson/Harris and us dropping a 3rd linebacker in favor of a Nickleback (and sometimes a 2nd linebacker for a dime back). The question is whether Mike recognizes that the DBs are just better than their equivalent linebackers or if he is just favoring his position. Right now, it works because our linebackers suck (Shannon so far has been great this second half). However, if our LB talent gets back up in 2 years can he make the switch?

[ObiKaTony]

Don't get to carried away. We play a big game next week.

What we saw in the 4th qtr against KSU wasn't why we brought Mike back.

I agree. The King was right when he said we don't have a d-line. There still isnt' hardly any push w/o a well timed blitz (it's nice not seeing them 20 yards out) That being said, this is a BIIIIG step in the right direction. BTW Didnt' know this till game time, but Mike found himself in a top 5 category again for D giving up tds, impressive from this group...

[StoopTroup]

I agree. The King was right when he said we don't have a d-line. There still isnt' hardly any push w/o a well timed blitz (it's nice not seeing them 20 yards out) That being said, this is a BIIIIG step in the right direction. BTW Didnt' know this till game time, but Mike found himself in a top 5 category again for D giving up tds, impressive from this group...

It is. I surely hope the confidence stays high and we hit fexas with another 60+ win next week.

[ObiKaTony]

The only "real" difference is that COMPARED to last year this team is 10x better regardless of a switch in positions (that's in his job description)

[StoopTroup]

The only "real" difference is that COMPARED to last year this team is 10x better regardless of a switch in positions (that's in his job description)

They were supposed to be better.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The position switches speak more of the suckage of Martinez more than anything. The rest of the D is playing very similarly (though Colvin is out of his mind right now).

[ObiKaTony]

They were supposed to be better.

That D was LOST last year, and the ONLY reason why they were 'supposed' to be better than last year was because of Mike coming back this year, hence my thread to begin with sir...

[C&CDean]

Obi,

Stfu while you still can. Sheez, bury your face somewhere till we sniff a little good and now you're vindicated. Meh. Chump sauce.

[8timechamps]

VINDICATION!!!!! Pfft.

[C&CDean]

I's vindicated!!1'b

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Don't get to carried away. We play a big game next week.

What we saw in the 4th qtr against KSU wasn't why we brought Mike back.

You are a bigger Venables fan than an Oklahoma fan. Sad.

[8timechamps]

I's vindicated!!1'b

Vindication iz mines!11!!!!

[thecrimsoncrusader]

The position switches speak more of the suckage of Martinez more than anything. The rest of the D is playing very similarly (though Colvin is out of his mind right now).

Clueless comment blaming Martinez instead of Venables.

[ObiKaTony]

Obi,

Stfu while you still can. Sheez, bury your face somewhere till we sniff a little good and now you're vindicated. Meh. Chump sauce.

LOL! This feels amazing...

[mainline13]

Clueless comment blaming Martinez instead of Venables.

OOh, JKM talkin' D and somebody calls him clueless?

I don't care who you are, that's funny!

[VA Sooner]

Clueless comment blaming Martinez instead of Venables.


Actually... JKM is one of the more well-respected posters here. The blaming of Martinez has to do with him being the secondary coach and not being able to adjust the defense appropriately. The DBs were getting all confused and having Colvin moved back to cornerback (his natural position) and Javon Harris and Gabe Lynn to safety (their natural positions) has helped eliminate the big plays that we were getting burned on time and time again, with the exception of the 37 yard play today, everything was kept underneath. Jefferson is also back at his natural position at safety.

Where we need help is the D-line and more pressure on the QB as well the run game... there was progress tonight. And especially in possibly identifying a new LB to rotate in (Frank Shannon).

Time will tell...

[C&CDean]

It's a good thing I'm in Orlando on an iPhone. Otherwise there'd be a bannination or 3 Can't do **** on this phone.

[StoopTroup]

Only one thing better than fans fighting each other after a loss and that's when they do it after a significant win on the Road.

[cleller]

If this is a debate about whether Mike or Venables is the better coordinator, why not talk about it? Nothing to be upset over. Brent's gone and Mike's here. None of us were involved in the process.

Of course not everything is the same except the Mike/Brent part, but Tech has the same QB, and same O-coordinator, right? It seems the teams are pretty similar to last year, but the outcome is much different.

As a Mike supporter, I think he deserves the credit. We had not won in our last 3 trips to Lubbock, and they beat us at home last year. Seems obvious to me.

[StoopTroup]

It's a good thing I'm in Orlando on an iPhone. Otherwise there'd be a bannination or 3 Can't do **** on this phone.

What rides did you go on?

http://www.jaunted.com/files/1425/Flight_of_the_Hippogriff_LR.jpg

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If this is a debate about whether Mike or Venables is the better coordinator, why not talk about it? Nothing to be upset over. Brent's gone and Mike's here. None of us were involved in the process.

Of course not everything is the same except the Mike/Brent part, but Tech has the same QB, and same O-coordinator, right? It seems the teams are pretty similar to last year, but the outcome is much different.

As a Mike supporter, I think he deserves the credit. We had not won in our last 3 trips to Lubbock, and they beat us at home last year. Seems obvious to me.

I think Mike deserves credit too. However, you have to objectively look at the changes on our D. The secondary lost its best player from last year and is an order of magnitude better this year. The major change? All of their positions got changed. Hmm, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, right after Stoops took over for Blake. Everyone on this board pretty much agrees that Boo was incompetent so why can't Martinez be as well?

Remember, it is the position coaches that determine what players play where. The DC just determines which positions are on the field for each play and what they do. I only see minor tweaks in the latter (as detailed above), but MAJOR tweaks in the former.

Let's dwell on some other things as well -

1. Hurst is pretty clearly our second best corner this year as he was last year (much like Step said, he'd peak early and not be a pro prospect). Last year, our best corner THIS year was playing nickleback and backing up Hurst.

2. The best linebacker play I've seen in 5 seasons (before today) was from walkons on special teams

3. Before today's game, when was the last time you saw a defensive player pulled for suckage?

[OUInformant]

Our secondary is really good this year. When we blitz we are much better. Tom Wort is disappointing, though Frank Shannon looked outstanding for as little experience as he has.

[FirstandGoal]

It's a good thing I'm in Orlando on an iPhone. Otherwise there'd be a bannination or 3 Can't do **** on this phone.


You guys better be careful or Dean's gonna AK all of your asses when he gets back.

[aurorasooner]

Definitely liked what I saw from our D today, especially from the D-line, getting their arms up when they couldn't get to Doege, from our DBs and LBs not letting Tech run wild on the crossing patterns, actually catching some picks instead of getting the brick hands, and from Shannon at linebacker. However, I'm cautious because we had 2 weeks to prep our D for Tech.
Our offense still goes as Landry goes, and he was on today. Although I still think the design of our running plays suck, I would like to see our running backs show some patience and cut around the blocks (like the K-state, O-state, the Tech backs, and Blake Bell seem to do), instead of just running up/into our offensive linemen's backs, but they ran hard today, and our OL blocked well. Overall, a good coaching job in all 3 phases of the game-plan and prep today, and good execution by our players, imo.

[cleller]

This is based on very quick research, but it looks like the last time we beat T Tech in Lubbock was 2003, when Mike Stoops was still with us.

[FaninAma]

It's a good thing I'm in Orlando on an iPhone. Otherwise there'd be a bannination or 3 Can't do **** on this phone.

Are you having a good time? Try not to use your magic wand too much until you know how to handle it. In fact, you should just let Lisa hold it for a while.

[StoopTroup]

Are you having a good time? Try not to use your magic wand too much until you know how to handle it. In fact, you should just let Lisa hold it for a while.

:D

http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Clubhouse/H/Harry_Potter_Universal/Ollivanders%20The%20Wizarding%20World%20of%20Harry %20Potter%20at%20Universal%20Orlando%20Resort.jpg

[tulsaoilerfan]

This is based on very quick research, but it looks like the last time we beat T Tech in Lubbock was 2003, when Mike Stoops was still with us.u r correct

[sooneredaco]

It's a good thing I'm in Orlando on an iPhone. Otherwise there'd be a bannination or 3 Can't do **** on this phone.

I'm I sensing more upgrades to come for the iPhone app? :D

[trwxxa]

It was good to see some other kids get significant playing time.

[StoopTroup]

I'm I sensing more upgrades to come for the iPhone app? :D

Or he can maybe hotspot his phone and use a laptop or kindle. Those should fit in a back pack.

http://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/6/8d/68d2cf6a15b2baa214452e1383ddb617-med

[8timechamps]

If this is a debate about whether Mike or Venables is the better coordinator, why not talk about it? Nothing to be upset over. Brent's gone and Mike's here. None of us were involved in the process.

Of course not everything is the same except the Mike/Brent part, but Tech has the same QB, and same O-coordinator, right? It seems the teams are pretty similar to last year, but the outcome is much different.

As a Mike supporter, I think he deserves the credit. We had not won in our last 3 trips to Lubbock, and they beat us at home last year. Seems obvious to me.

As a Sooner fan, I want the best coordinators we can get. Whomever can lead our team to victory. I liked Brent while he was at OU, and hope he does well at Clemson (and they seem to be doing fine). Mike is a great D-coordinator, and he's now back at OU, so I want him to do well (just as I did when he was in Arizona). The only thing I find stupid about this whole thing is when people want to take some kind of personal credit for who our coordinator is. Or think they have something to prove.

[8timechamps]

Definitely liked what I saw from our D today, especially from the D-line, getting their arms up when they couldn't get to Doege, from our DBs and LBs not letting Tech run wild on the crossing patterns, actually catching some picks instead of getting the brick hands, and from Shannon at linebacker. However, I'm cautious because we had 2 weeks to prep our D for Tech.
Our offense still goes as Landry goes, and he was on today. Although I still think the design of our running plays suck, I would like to see our running backs show some patience and cut around the blocks (like the K-state, O-state, the Tech backs, and Blake Bell seem to do), instead of just running up/into our offensive linemen's backs, but they ran hard today, and our OL blocked well. Overall, a good coaching job in all 3 phases of the game-plan and prep today, and good execution by our players, imo.

No doubt the best our D-line has looked this year. Washington may have played his best game as a Sooner today. All around just solid play.

[StoopTroup]

Kevin Wilson was doing pretty good until he brought his Team out onto the field for the 2nd half today. Maybe we will be able to get him back and offer him 1.5 Million like we did Mike?

[MamaMia]

I's vindicated!!1'bI thought you had a wrestling date with some alligators. :D

Seriously, are you having fun in Orlando; one of my favorite places? :)

Plus, it IS quite possible to compliment Mike Stoops without bashing Brent Venables people.

[soonerloyal]

Meh. I'm still pissed that we're #17 and $*#@!(& Georgia & S. Carolina are effing #5 and #6. That's whack, man.

[8timechamps]

Meh. I'm still pissed that we're #17 and $*#@!(& Georgia & S. Carolina are effing #5 and #6. That's whack, man.

UGA is not a top 10 team, and South Carolina exposed that today. South Carolina on the other hand, is the same South Carolina that barely got by Vanderbilt. I'll give SC a pass because it was their first game, and they do look pretty good, but UGA was ranked based on it's association with the SEC.

What gets me is how USC is ranked ahead of us. We lost to a ranked team, they lost to a ranked team that clearly shouldn't have been ranked. It'll be interesting to see if we jump them in the coaches poll after our win today and USC's close win versus mighty Utah.

[picasso]

Clueless comment blaming Martinez instead of Venables.
That's a good one. I'd love to see you try to go full x and o nerd on jkm.

The radio broadcast guys on the sideline (former player you may know) said that OU was running some blitzes he'd never seen before.

[cleller]

That's a good one. I'd love to see you try to go full x and o nerd on jkm.

The radio broadcast guys on the sideline (former player you may know) said that OU was running some blitzes he'd never seen before.

Reminds me of the 2001 Orange Bowl. Mike had also installed new personnel, etc for that game.

[boomermagic]

If this is a debate about whether Mike or Venables is the better coordinator, why not talk about it? Nothing to be upset over. Brent's gone and Mike's here. None of us were involved in the process.

Of course not everything is the same except the Mike/Brent part, but Tech has the same QB, and same O-coordinator, right? It seems the teams are pretty similar to last year, but the outcome is much different.

As a Mike supporter, I think he deserves the credit. We had not won in our last 3 trips to Lubbock, and they beat us at home last year. Seems obvious to me.

Absolutely

[aurorasooner]

I just don't know how much the K-State loss was due to our coaches not wanting to show too much before the RRR and them thinking we could beat K-State with a vanilla game-plan, and after the loss, they said to hell with it, and came out with a quality game-plan as well as quality adjustments at halftime, or our players/coaches finally realizing that if we lose in Lubbock, we could end up with Stoops 1st losing season. In any event, with Texas having to play West Virginia and pull everything out of their azz before the RRR and us having to do the same in Lubbock because of our loss to K-State, it should be an interesting game next week.
btw, for Comcast cable subscribers the game replay is on now on Fox College Sports Central, which is strange since the game was on ABC.

[Okie35]

We're 8th in total defense in the country. I do like how the defense is playing honestly. Despite the two big plays given up on 3rd downs against KSU.

We've also given up the least amount of yards by any team this season 852... Bama is 2nd w/ 958.

we did have two bye weeks though lol

[EatLeadCommie]

the defense is obviously improved. Stoops can't change the talent level that we have on the line, at LB, or Demontre Hurst, but he is making do with what we have. I suspect we will get a badass JUCO LB this offseason

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

UGA is not a top 10 team, and South Carolina exposed that today. South Carolina on the other hand, is the same South Carolina that barely got by Vanderbilt. I'll give SC a pass because it was their first game, and they do look pretty good, but UGA was ranked based on it's association with the SEC.

What gets me is how USC is ranked ahead of us. We lost to a ranked team, they lost to a ranked team that clearly shouldn't have been ranked. It'll be interesting to see if we jump them in the coaches poll after our win today and USC's close win versus mighty Utah.The condoms are like the domers and meatchickens. They HAVE TO lose twice to be considered out of contention for the NC, it seems.

[yermom]

The condoms are like the domers and meatchickens. They HAVE TO lose twice to be considered out of contention for the NC, it seems.

always the victim :)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

always the victim :)It's about money, not victimhood.

[StoopTroup]

I thought you had a wrestling date with some alligators. :D

Seriously, are you having fun in Orlando; one of my favorite places? :)

Plus, it IS quite possible to compliment Mike Stoops without bashing Brent Venables people.

I think this is a great point as when Mike left...we all supported him and when he came back...we again supported him. Should Mike find another HC Position down the road, who's to say that Brent wouldn't come back here just like Mike?

They are both good Coaches IMO. Folks who want to argue that are welcome to do so but when Bob brought all these guys with him from K-State, they were called "The Dream Team". I think that Brent deserves as much respect as Mike. I always will. I hope that the move to bring Mike back didn't end up with a sour-grapes relationship with Bob or OU. I wish the guy well and hope he is able to help Clemson even though I think Clemson would have been better off just hiring Brent as their HC.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

... I hope that the move to bring Mike back didn't end up with a sour-grapes relationship with Bob or OU. I wish Brent well and hope he is able to help Clemson even though I think Clemson would have been better off just hiring Brent as their HC.Mike might be an ideal DC, and it appears he's happy doing that. he made plenty of buck$ in AZ, and could be set financially.

[Breadburner]

We lost to KSU because of turn-overs.....

[StoopTroup]

Mike might be an ideal DC, and it appears he's happy doing that. he made plenty of buck$ in AZ, and could be set financially.

Could be. I have no idea about his Family Life or if he was able to salvage his marriage by coming back here. I hope he did. I'm always for folks patching it up when they have kids. The pressure of being a HC at Arizona obviously took it's toll on many things in his life.

Money doesn't bring happiness and he was making pretty good money here before he left. Now....1.5 mil is a very nice raise. As long as he is part of bringing us another MNC, it will obviously be worth the money. I also hope it's good for his Family. He's a nice guy and has been very cordial to me and my family when we had the chance to meet him.

[StoopTroup]

We lost to KSU because of turn-overs.....

Sure we did. They had Turnovers right there on the scoreboard.

[yermom]

We lost to KSU because of turn-overs.....

and a couple of big 3rd downs...

we went after Doege on 3rd down. it was pretty great to see us do it and have it work :D

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm very please with the defensive improvements so far. KSU and TT couldn't be more different on offense and the defense did enough to win both games. We probably win against KSU if the offense only has 2 turnovers instead of 3. And Mike has accomplished this with 3 of the best players gone from last year without star players replacing them (R. Lewis, Alexander, Fleming).

[StoopTroup]

And we probably win if the Defense had made a stop in the 4th qtr.

I guess you can continue to think the D kicked *** in the 4th qtr against KSU. Seeing it differently isn't going to change the outcome.

I would have rather lost seeing the offense on the field trying to score rather than on the sidelines watching Klein pound our D with 1st downs as the clock ran out.

[goingoneight]

Playing guys in the secondary where they're best-suited to play and simplifying cover schemes is something to praise Mike for and blame Martinez for not doing, noobs. It's really not that difficult.

Also, I remember Josh Heupel being lauded as better than Kevin Wilson on this week a year ago. How's that working out for ya, noobs? We, the realists will continue to cheer our guys on and evaluate as we go. How are you all going to feel if Baylor, OSU and WVU drop 40-point bombs on us later in the year? Tech was simply the first game OU played to their potential. Nothing more. There have still been plenty of head-scratching moments on defense so far.

[StoopTroup]

There have still been plenty of head-scratching moments on defense so far.

Totally agree.

I'm still not sure who screams lOUder.....Mike or Brent? I am leaning towards Mike. He gets paid more so he should scream more.

[AzianSooner]

Why Defense was so strong from 2001-2003? OU had both Mike and Brent then.

It's not one element, it is the combination of both.

I personally think I saw some flash back of the 2000's defense style last night.

Good Job Mike Stoops.

[StoopTroup]

I've always though we would have had a great Defense if we'd had them both this year. Didn't work out.

I'm not bagging on Mike either, just think it's going to take a bit of time for him to have things going the way he wants them to go. He definitely had the D playing better against Tech and I dare say if we had to play KSU next week....they would get their *** beat by us.

[PLaw]

Don't get to carried away. We play a big game next week.

What we saw in the 4th qtr against KSU wasn't why we brought Mike back.

Yeah, true. But the as a whole, the D played well enough to win the game. They were put behind the 8-ball with the turnovers from the O. If the O takes care of the ball, then OU wins the game.

Mike is back and the fundamentals are noticeably improved.

BOOMER

[PLaw]

Why Defense was so strong from 2001-2003? OU had both Mike and Brent then.

It's not one element, it is the combination of both.

I personally think I saw some flash back of the 2000's defense style last night.

Good Job Mike Stoops.

true, but is Kish going to be able to fill Brent's shoes?

BOOM

[ObiKaTony]

Playing guys in the secondary where they're best-suited to play and simplifying cover schemes is something to praise Mike for and blame Martinez for not doing, noobs. It's really not that difficult.

Also, I remember Josh Heupel being lauded as better than Kevin Wilson on this week a year ago. How's that working out for ya, noobs? We, the realists will continue to cheer our guys on and evaluate as we go. How are you all going to feel if Baylor, OSU and WVU drop 40-point bombs on us later in the year? Tech was simply the first game OU played to their potential. Nothing more. There have still been plenty of head-scratching moments on defense so far.

Guess, you were the ones touting V and now looking like the noob yourself. Anyone see that OU is ranked in the top 10 WITH THIS DEFENSE?! This is an excellent coaching job, and the results couldnt' be any more clear. Please inform yourself with some facts that @ least help make your point instead of doing the exact opposite...

[ObiKaTony]

For the record, I couldn't be any more happy with the future @ OU. Look for Mike to recruit his players, and have this team remind of us when he was here in the early 00's Boomer Sooner!

[ObiKaTony]

Wonder when the last time we saw something like this?...Damn I love being right.

http://www.newson6.com/story/19755198/ou-defensive-performance-energizes-complete-team-showing

[goingoneight]

I'm gonna say against FSU, Texas and KSU last year. Thanks for playing.

[sooneron]

Guess, you were the ones touting V and now looking like the noob yourself. Anyone see that OU is ranked in the top 10 WITH THIS DEFENSE?! This is an excellent coaching job, and the results couldnt' be any more clear. Please inform yourself with some facts that @ least help make your point instead of doing the exact opposite...

Dude, we're looking pretty solid, but we have only played two teams, as far as I'm concerned. We also looked pretty solid last year at this point.

[BoulderSooner79]

And we probably win if the Defense had made a stop in the 4th qtr.

I guess you can continue to think the D kicked *** in the 4th qtr against KSU. Seeing it differently isn't going to change the outcome.

I would have rather lost seeing the offense on the field trying to score rather than on the sidelines watching Klein pound our D with 1st downs as the clock ran out.

I totally agree and hated the way Mike decided to play it on KSU's last possession. And if we're speaking of preferred ways of losing, I would have much rather have seen KSU hit a big play deep against a blitz on that 3rd and 11 than sit back and let Klein hit a routine 12 yard out w/o any pressure. We earned that 3rd an 11 with a TFL and a forced incomplete and the advantage should be with the defense - especially against a run-first team. But I stand by my statement that the defense played well; just not well enough to overcome the mistakes on offense. I also say they played better than last year's D would have played with arguably more talent. No way to prove that, just my opinion.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

The Sooner defense only gave up 17 offensive points against KSU and it would probably been more like 7 to 10 points if the Sooner offense would have done their job. The Sooner defense was facing a competent offense while the Sooner offense was facing an incompetent pass defense and failed to capitalize. At no point was the KSU game on the Sooner defense.

If the Sooner offense would have done their job the prior 3 quarters, maybe the Sooner defense could of made a stop in the 4th quarter. Funny, how the defense is supposed to make a stop in the 4th quarter, but the offense is supposed to score, but the offense fails to do so for most of the game. Talk about double standards.

[oudanny]

I don't know who gets the credit but it was good to see some plays coming from the middle linebacker position and I thought Washington had a nice game. Hope it continues.

[ObiKaTony]

I'm gonna say against FSU, Texas and KSU last year. Thanks for playing.


I am going to say, OSU, TECH, BAYLOR (worst d performance EVER) and a D ranked in the upper 60's...Your-welcome for playing...

[agoo758]

[QUOTE=goingoneight;3524929]Playing guys in the secondary where they're best-suited to play and simplifying cover schemes is something to praise Mike for and blame Martinez for not doing, noobs. It's really not that difficult.

[QUOTE]


If it's not that hard, how come we hadn't done that the previous 7 years?

[8timechamps]

Guess, you were the ones touting V and now looking like the noob yourself. Anyone see that OU is ranked in the top 10 WITH THIS DEFENSE?! This is an excellent coaching job, and the results couldnt' be any more clear. Please inform yourself with some facts that @ least help make your point instead of doing the exact opposite...

I really question your mental well-being. "The results couldn't be any more clear"? After what, 4 games?

This is how I picture you on Saturdays: You have the Sooner game on your TV. You have the Clemson game on your little TV that sits on the big TV. You kick the wall every time the OU defense gives up a yard. You cheer when the Clemson defense gives up a yard. The entire time you have a notepad, keeping offensive totals for both defenses. All the while, your muttering under your breath "I'll be vindicated!".

Dude, NOBODY cares. But, thanks for giving me a mental picture to laugh about.

[Curly Bill]

NOBODY cares? I laugh everytime I see Clemson has given up a lot of points! So..I care at least a little. But is it a big deal? No, it's not. I'm just glad BV is gone. I would have taken multiple other DC's for the job, but Mike was as good a choice as any IMO.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I think the results are clear. Oklahoma has less talent this season, but is defending better regardless of the opposition faced so far. It's not that hard to tell the difference and the Sooners would be killing it right now on defense if they at least had Lewis and Alexander at the DE spots despite still having DT talent issues. The players are a lot more sure of themselves and don't look confused as well out there like they did all of the previous seasons under Brent Venables watch.

[BoulderSooner79]

NOBODY cares? I laugh everytime I see Clemson has given up a lot of points! So..I care at least a little. But is it a big deal? No, it's not. I'm just glad BV is gone. I would have taken multiple other DC's for the job, but Mike was as good a choice as any IMO.

I wasn't giddy about Mike coming back - thought it was an "okay" choice. But it has turned out better than I expected given the little data we have so far. I figured it would take most this season for us to see any real difference. Big test coming this week though. The horn offense has shown resilence countering the unexpected weak performance of their dfense. I expect our defense to fare better than either the pokes or WVU did, but they must since I doubt our offense puts up 40+ points.

[8timechamps]

NOBODY cares? I laugh everytime I see Clemson has given up a lot of points! So..I care at least a little. But is it a big deal? No, it's not. I'm just glad BV is gone. I would have taken multiple other DC's for the job, but Mike was as good a choice as any IMO.

Maybe I should edit it to say "Nobody cares as much as ObiKaTony".

Really though, Clemson and OU both have a loss. So, there really isn't much to brag about. At the end of the day (heh), I only care about how OU finishes the year.

[8timechamps]

I think the results are clear. Oklahoma has less talent this season, but is defending better regardless of the opposition faced so far. It's not that hard to tell the difference and the Sooners would be killing it right now on defense if they at least had Lewis and Alexander at the DE spots despite still having DT talent issues. The players are a lot more sure of themselves and don't look confused as well out there like they did all of the previous seasons under Brent Venables watch.

I'm not going to deny that the defense looks better, because it clearly does. I'm also not going to deny that Mike is a better defensive coordinator, because I think he is. This whole thing originally started because someone said BV was a "horrible" (or maybe "bad") defensive coordinator. Then the whole "I'll be VINDICATED" thing happened. It just kinda became a joke after that.

[birddog]

did mike bang yer daughters in the early 00's? i "stumbled" upon him a few times at 54 or something downtown. i vaguely remember calling the Sooners a baltimore ravens type team then. surely you can research what they had on d then and be happy you weren't watching hybl on the pga tour,or maybe you had better short-iron games than hybl then,too. or was it that your woods weren't as long as you thought?

[goingoneight]

I'm not going to deny that the defense looks better, because it clearly does. I'm also not going to deny that Mike is a better defensive coordinator, because I think he is. This whole thing originally started because someone said BV was a "horrible" (or maybe "bad") defensive coordinator. Then the whole "I'll be VINDICATED" thing happened. It just kinda became a joke after that.
I hope Mike never loses a game again here. But I'm also cautiously optimistic. I've seen flaws that WVU or even Texas could exploit with ease. We're still a work in progress. And for that same reason, I can't knock BV yet for coaching Conference USA at best defensive talent at Clemson.

[cleller]

Never won in Lubbock without Mike, right? (in the Stoops era)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think the results are clear. Oklahoma has less talent this season, but is defending better regardless of the opposition faced so far. It's not that hard to tell the difference and the Sooners would be killing it right now on defense if they at least had Lewis and Alexander at the DE spots despite still having DT talent issues. The players are a lot more sure of themselves and don't look confused as well out there like they did all of the previous seasons under Brent Venables watch.

This is what I don't get. It is all BV's fault. If players look confused, it is his fault. If we have talent issues at positions other than linebacker it is his fault. If the players look unsure of themselves it is his fault. At no point do you ever take a step back and think if it just *might* be someone else's fault.

DEs have less talent -> Not surprising since we've been cycling through coaches here. It looks like one class in particular (2008) is underperforming which isn't surprising since the whole class hasn't been very good outside of tress way. Even so, the DEs we have are solid, just not great. Of course, the 3rd stringers look downright amazing (lindley and favors especially). They just aren't big enough to handle the run stopping load that we have this year.

DTs have no talent -> Been saying this since 1994. Last I checked, there are 2 DT positions and you play 4 every game. Fielding one all american and 3 scrubs just doesn't cut it. Lately it has been even worse where we literally have worse starters than most of the conferences backups. At what point do you just face the fact that Jackie Shipp isn't evaluating talent worth a crap?

LBs have no talent -> see DT. BV is gone so we get to see if Kish can spot some talent.

Secondary -> This is the group that has been playing lights out this year. Lots of position swapping. A promotion from NB to starter for a guy who is honestly playing like an AA. 90% of our confusion was back here and we went through like 4 position coaches trying to fix it. Mike fixed it and he gets 100% of the credit here.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Never won in Lubbock without Mike, right? (in the Stoops era)

Weird crap happens in Lubbock (ask aTm). And one of those losses was by a phantom TD.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

This is what I don't get. It is all BV's fault. If players look confused, it is his fault. If we have talent issues at positions other than linebacker it is his fault. If the players look unsure of themselves it is his fault. At no point do you ever take a step back and think if it just *might* be someone else's fault.

DEs have less talent -> Not surprising since we've been cycling through coaches here. It looks like one class in particular (2008) is underperforming which isn't surprising since the whole class hasn't been very good outside of tress way. Even so, the DEs we have are solid, just not great. Of course, the 3rd stringers look downright amazing (lindley and favors especially). They just aren't big enough to handle the run stopping load that we have this year.

DTs have no talent -> Been saying this since 1994. Last I checked, there are 2 DT positions and you play 4 every game. Fielding one all american and 3 scrubs just doesn't cut it. Lately it has been even worse where we literally have worse starters than most of the conferences backups. At what point do you just face the fact that Jackie Shipp isn't evaluating talent worth a crap?

LBs have no talent -> see DT. BV is gone so we get to see if Kish can spot some talent.

Secondary -> This is the group that has been playing lights out this year. Lots of position swapping. A promotion from NB to starter for a guy who is honestly playing like an AA. 90% of our confusion was back here and we went through like 4 position coaches trying to fix it. Mike fixed it and he gets 100% of the credit here.

I never gave Jackie Shipp a pass as he certainly has not done a good job of late. I get concerned when Jamarcus McFarland is a 5 star, Stacey McGhee is a 4 star and Casey Walker is a 4 star and none of those guys really get the job done by what I would call "Oklahoma standards". My problem with Venables was his absolute stubborness. We begged for Ryan Reynolds to be pulled in obvious passing situations in the 2008 and early 2009 seasons because he didn't have the speed anymore after his unfortunate knee injuries and he finally did it in the Texas game and Colt McCoy and Jordan Shipley had the combined worst games of their careers. And this past weekend is a perfect example of Venables stubborness. There isn't a chance in Hades that he would have pulled his protege, Tom Wort, despite his less than stellar performance this season. Mike Stoops did it just at the right time and without hesitation.

Brent Venables biggest failing was he was the Landry Jones of defensive coordinators. He would have absolutely epic defensive performances like the 2009 and 2011 OU/TX games, but then major egg layers like Baylor, OSU and Texas Tech last season. He was just all over the map and what the Sooners really need is consistency of good performances as opposed to either great performances or extremely poor performances. The same applies to Oklahoma at the QB position in terms of just needing a game manager, not a QB to try to take over the game.

Brent Venables negative impact was noticed right away in the 2004 season with Brodney Pool and Donta Nicholson among others. They were confused a heck and the Sooners never looked back as far as being confused. And while Brent had a reputation as being a great linebackers coach, sans Clint Ingram, Curtis Lofton and Travis Lewis, Oklahoma's linebacker production kind of slowed down under his watch after showing tremendous progress when Mike Stoops was still here. Now was that because Venables had more time for it because he wasn't the defensive play-caller at the time or was it because Mike Stoops actually had the bigger impact on the defense as a whole and did a better job of evaluating defensive personnel.

We'll find out in the coming seasons, but so far things point to Mike Stoops being a bigger factor in the 2000 through 2003 defenses than the combination of Mike Stoops and Brent Venables. Mike made defensive personnel changes this season that Venables never would make and Brent had such a hard-on for his linebacking corps, he would routinely use a nickel package with the nickelback being a slow *** linebacker instead of a true DB with good closing speed that contributed to Oklahoma being roasted over the middle over and over again each and every year.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I never gave Jackie Shipp a pass as he certainly has not done a good job of late. I get concerned when Jamarcus McFarland is a 5 star, Stacey McGhee is a 4 star and Casey Walker is a 4 star and none of those guys really get the job done by what I would call "Oklahoma standards". My problem with Venables was his absolute stubborness. We begged for Ryan Reynolds to be pulled in obvious passing situations in the 2008 and early 2009 seasons because he didn't have the speed anymore after his unfortunate knee injuries and he finally did it in the Texas game and Colt McCoy and Jordan Shipley had the combined worst games of their careers. And this past weekend is a perfect example of Venables stubborness. There isn't a chance in Hades that he would have pulled his protege, Tom Wort, despite his less than stellar performance this season. Mike Stoops did it just at the right time and without hesitation.

You are mixing 2 roles and then using it to attempt to support your argument.

1. It has been said time and time again that the position coaches determine who plays.
2. BV never replaced people who were underperforming at the position he was coaching
3. This weekend a position coach removed a linebacker underperforming
4. Thus Mike Stoops coaches linebackers

The credit for replacing Wort goes to Kish, not Mike Stoops. Right thinking, wrong conclusion


Brent Venables biggest failing was he was the Landry Jones of defensive coordinators. He would have absolutely epic defensive performances like the 2009 and 2011 OU/TX games, but then major egg layers like Baylor, OSU and Texas Tech last season. He was just all over the map and what the Sooners really need is consistency of good performances as opposed to either great performances or extremely poor performances. The same applies to Oklahoma at the QB position in terms of just needing a game manager, not a QB to try to take over the game.

This is purely speculative other than the performances happened. I personally think it is because our players are as soft as Texas 99-04, but anyway.


Brent Venables negative impact was noticed right away in the 2004 season with Brodney Pool and Donta Nicholson among others. They were confused a heck and the Sooners never looked back as far as being confused. And while Brent had a reputation as being a great linebackers coach, sans Clint Ingram, Curtis Lofton and Travis Lewis, Oklahoma's linebacker production kind of slowed down under his watch after showing tremendous progress when Mike Stoops was still here. Now was that because Venables had more time for it because he wasn't the defensive play-caller at the time or was it because Mike Stoops actually had the bigger impact on the defense as a whole and did a better job of evaluating defensive personnel

These are speculative and can be argued.

1. The secondary was confused when BV took over. If all other variables had stayed constant I might agree with you on this, but they didn't. As a matter of a fact, the secondary got a new coach at the same time. That coach (Pelini) also had just been passed over for the Nebraska job and was gone after one season (my speculation is he was a little butthurt over it). Who is to say that Pelini just didn't coast that year?

2. BV's talent evaluation has been rehashed by me over and over. His problem was that 75% of his recruits weren't very good, but the other 25% were amazing. You can ride that for a while but if you ever have an early entrant or a miss its going to bite you.

3. Mike Stoops was a better evaluator of defensive personnel - Most of Mike's best players were recruited in 1998 and 1999 for a defense that we didn't even play in 2000. He also got a LOT of mileage out of those first 2 classes. The next 3 were pretty much barren.

Now how about a point that isn't as speculative:

Mike Stoops is a very good teacher in the secondary -> you said before that after he left they looked confused and now they don't. Maybe he has a gift for making kids understand? I think when you look at the performance in the secondary everyone is distracted by BV leaving and not realizing it may be a red herring.



We'll find out in the coming seasons, but so far things point to Mike Stoops being a bigger factor in the 2000 through 2003 defenses than the combination of Mike Stoops and Brent Venables. Mike made defensive personnel changes this season that Venables never would make and Brent had such a hard-on for his linebacking corps, he would routinely use a nickel package with the nickelback being a slow *** linebacker instead of a true DB with good closing speed that contributed to Oklahoma being roasted over the middle over and over again each and every year.

Once again, you are blaming BV for secondary problems. You are also making a gross generalization about the nickleback position (I don't think that Aaron Colvin and Jason Carter qualify). You then complain about him as a position coach again.

Look, I've diagrammed over 40 plays where we got torched over the last few years. Every single one of them had a couple of things in common ->
1. We were in the right defense to make a play, but we didn't.
2. Our talent isn't nearly as good as everyone thinks it is
3. There were a lot of guys going through the motions

Looking at it from Bob's POV, it is incredibly hard to look past the obvious mistakes to see the root cause. If you think about some of his comments over the last several years, you can see that for a while he couldn't do it.

"You go over something in practice 50 times and then they don't do it on gameday"
"It wasn't any different than what they saw in practice"
"He has to know to get back and not bite on that, he's a safety"
"These guys think that winning just happens and that they don't have to work for it"

After a few years of the same thing, though, you have to look deeper and thus bringing Mike back. You see, in the end, players tend to play like they are coached. If you see stagnant growth, mistakes, and no fire that is a coaching problem (calling Heupel to a courtesy phone).

[thecrimsoncrusader]

You are mixing 2 roles and then using it to attempt to support your argument.

1. It has been said time and time again that the position coaches determine who plays.
2. BV never replaced people who were underperforming at the position he was coaching
3. This weekend a position coach removed a linebacker underperforming
4. Thus Mike Stoops coaches linebackers

The credit for replacing Wort goes to Kish, not Mike Stoops. Right thinking, wrong conclusion



This is purely speculative other than the performances happened. I personally think it is because our players are as soft as Texas 99-04, but anyway.



These are speculative and can be argued.

1. The secondary was confused when BV took over. If all other variables had stayed constant I might agree with you on this, but they didn't. As a matter of a fact, the secondary got a new coach at the same time. That coach (Pelini) also had just been passed over for the Nebraska job and was gone after one season (my speculation is he was a little butthurt over it). Who is to say that Pelini just didn't coast that year?

2. BV's talent evaluation has been rehashed by me over and over. His problem was that 75% of his recruits weren't very good, but the other 25% were amazing. You can ride that for a while but if you ever have an early entrant or a miss its going to bite you.

3. Mike Stoops was a better evaluator of defensive personnel - Most of Mike's best players were recruited in 1998 and 1999 for a defense that we didn't even play in 2000. He also got a LOT of mileage out of those first 2 classes. The next 3 were pretty much barren.

Now how about a point that isn't as speculative:

Mike Stoops is a very good teacher in the secondary -> you said before that after he left they looked confused and now they don't. Maybe he has a gift for making kids understand? I think when you look at the performance in the secondary everyone is distracted by BV leaving and not realizing it may be a red herring.




Once again, you are blaming BV for secondary problems. You are also making a gross generalization about the nickleback position (I don't think that Aaron Colvin and Jason Carter qualify). You then complain about him as a position coach again.

Look, I've diagrammed over 40 plays where we got torched over the last few years. Every single one of them had a couple of things in common ->
1. We were in the right defense to make a play, but we didn't.
2. Our talent isn't nearly as good as everyone thinks it is
3. There were a lot of guys going through the motions

Looking at it from Bob's POV, it is incredibly hard to look past the obvious mistakes to see the root cause. If you think about some of his comments over the last several years, you can see that for a while he couldn't do it.

"You go over something in practice 50 times and then they don't do it on gameday"
"It wasn't any different than what they saw in practice"
"He has to know to get back and not bite on that, he's a safety"
"These guys think that winning just happens and that they don't have to work for it"

After a few years of the same thing, though, you have to look deeper and thus bringing Mike back. You see, in the end, players tend to play like they are coached. If you see stagnant growth, mistakes, and no fire that is a coaching problem (calling Heupel to a courtesy phone).


I read all of that twice and came to the same conclusion. You're one of those people that says a lot without actually having something relevant to say. That's OK though. All walks of life and such. I don't thnk much of Oklahoma's talent level on the defensive side of the ball at least in the front 4 or even front 7 for that matter. This is about the weakest Oklahoma has been from a talent standoint in the front seven in over 30 years. With that said, you should return to whatever RPG that it is that you are playing and return the pifwafwi to its rightful owner at once!

[8timechamps]

I read all of that twice and came to the same conclusion. You're one of those people that says a lot without actually having something relevant to say. That's OK though. All walks of life and such. I don't thnk much of Oklahoma's talent level on the defensive side of the ball at least in the front 4 or even front 7 for that matter. This is about the weakest Oklahoma has been from a talent standoint in the front seven in over 30 years. With that said, you should return to whatever RPG that it is that you are playing and return the pifwafwi to its rightful owner at once!

I read it once, and understood it completely. However, I've been reading jkm's stuff since back when he was just plain old jkm.

I agree with your thinking about the talent in the back 7, however, I think Aaron Colvin is an NFL talent. I thought that last season. He can benefit from another year under Mike, but I've yet to see a play he can't make. Of course that doesn't mean he will make all of them. Outside of Colvin, I'm not sure we have any NFL talent on defense. At least nobody playing regularly. That's just my take.

I also think jkm makes a good point about Mike's ability to get his point across to the kids he coaches. Something I don't think BV does well. Confusion is okay in practice, or in the film room, but if it finds it's way to gameday, that can easily be considered a coach's fault.

I also don't think we have done as bad a job recruiting as some believe. When a coach (like Shipp) evaluates a 4 or 5 star kid, and reaches the conclusion that he has the talent to contribute, he should. unfortunately, we have several guys playing right now that haven't had the success that was expected. Maybe that's a little on Shipp (although in almost every case, the same players were evaluated and offered by big time schools with big time programs), but sometimes recruits just don't end up being as good as expected.

[C&CDean]

You know what really cracks me up? The clueless, completely ignorant, wholly effed up thinking dildos on here who go "fire coach XX" when a player fumbles the ball/drops a pass/jumps offside/blows a coverage/misses a tackle/misses class/has a brain fart. Then, when they get called on it they go "well they should have recruited better." Seriously, STFU.

As soft/shallow/weak or whatever word you wanna use this year's defense is, we'd be 4-0 if it weren't for our offense. And not the playcalling either. I'm relatively certain Heupel or Stoops didn't call a couple QB fumbles in the K-State game. "oh but the buck stops at the coach by galdammit!@" Meh.

[ObiKaTony]

I'm not going to deny that the defense looks better, because it clearly does. I'm also not going to deny that Mike is a better defensive coordinator, because I think he is. This whole thing originally started because someone said BV was a "horrible" (or maybe "bad") defensive coordinator. Then the whole "I'll be VINDICATED" thing happened. It just kinda became a joke after that.

This thread started because I pointed out the obvious and you are retreating faster than the French. While others are "vindicated" you are surely part of the group that was the opposite of vindicated which is why you now think it's a joke. If my mental capacity is to be judged by me assessing for the last several years V. needed to be replaced by a much better coordinator then I am looking pretty damn smart sir. You...Well, I have my own mental picture and I'm laughing right now.

[ObiKaTony]

Bottom line, even with the low talent level on this team Mike finds the D in top 5 categories (AGAIN) this analysis is not based off 4 games, it’s based off several years. Mike was a BETTER coordinator for 4 years so one shouldn’t be surprised when the D got better this year.

All the guys whether they thought V wasn't cutting it or needed to be replaced/fired, were clearly right. The people on the opposite side of the spectrum are now trying to find excuses why they were wrong. Many apologies need to be given out to many people. In the end, truth overcomes sanctimony/political correctness every time. It’s nice being on the side of truth. Now, let us cheer on the Sooners because they are going to need all the help they can get this year…

[goingoneight]

Stars mean nothing more than some nerd watches film and grades it. Stars won't tell you how strong he'll be after a couple seasons under Schmidt and they won't tell you what kind of character he has. This is why 3 star Sam Bradford won a Heisman trophy and five star Garrett Gilbert is still just Garrett Gilbert. If I look at a guy and see that only us and Florida A&M offered and five years later he's still riding the bench, I'm more inclined to think of THAT as a recruiting mishap. Not when the kid has had Saban, Mack, Les and Bob all in his living room at one point in time. No matter how awesome a recruiter you think you are in February, there are still going to be guys like Josh Heupel to win a National Championship before guys like Jake Locker ever make it to a bowl game.

[C&CDean]

Bottom line, even with the low talent level on this team Mike finds the D in top 5 categories (AGAIN) this analysis is not based off 4 games, it’s based off several years. Mike was a BETTER coordinator for 4 years so one shouldn’t be surprised when the D got better this year.

All the guys whether they thought V wasn't cutting it or needed to be replaced/fired, were clearly right. The people on the opposite side of the spectrum are now trying to find excuses why they were wrong. Many apologies need to be given out to many people. In the end, truth overcomes sanctimony/political correctness every time. It’s nice being on the side of truth. Now, let us cheer on the Sooners because they are going to need all the help they can get this year…

Seriously, do you know how ****ed up and insecure you sound? Here's an apology (since I guess you think you're owed one???): "I'm really sorry you're such a strange dude."

[ObiKaTony]

Seriously, do you know how ****ed up and insecure you sound? Here's an apology (since I guess you think you're owed one???): "I'm really sorry you're such a strange dude."

No, but I do know how RIGHT myself and the majority of Sooner FANS were/are...

Apology accepted sir :)

[C&CDean]

Uh, um,...ok?

[Soonerjeepman]

ummm...beat texas~ ;-)

[8timechamps]

This thread started because I pointed out the obvious and you are retreating faster than the French. While others are "vindicated" you are surely part of the group that was the opposite of vindicated which is why you now think it's a joke. If my mental capacity is to be judged by me assessing for the last several years V. needed to be replaced by a much better coordinator then I am looking pretty damn smart sir. You...Well, I have my own mental picture and I'm laughing right now.

Wrong. Please go back and re-read anything I've ever posted about the subject. I've never claimed BV was better than Stoops. I believe it was you that said BV was a "bad" coordinator. Please.

Again, you don't look smart, because YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. It actually was funny for a while, but now you're just sad. In your mind, you think you actually did something.

Anyone that feels "Vindicated" on an internet message board must have a lonely life. Good luck with your statistic keeping on Clemson/OU. Maybe you can write a book someday. Of course nobody but you will read it, but at least you'll be "vindicated".

[PLaw]

As soft/shallow/weak or whatever word you wanna use this year's defense is, we'd be 4-0 if it weren't for our offense. And not the playcalling either. I'm relatively certain Heupel or Stoops didn't call a couple QB fumbles in the K-State game. "oh but the buck stops at the coach by galdammit!@" Meh.

It's almost comforting that the loss was due to play on the o-side of the ball. For the past several years, most (not necessarily all) have been because the D gave up 30+.

Really refreshing to see DB's wrapping up and limiting YAK, Mike finding players that want to play in the system, and an o-coordinator using all of his weapons.

Time to unleash the beast in the Cotton Bowl.

BOOMER

[ObiKaTony]

Wrong. Please go back and re-read anything I've ever posted about the subject. I've never claimed BV was better than Stoops. I believe it was you that said BV was a "bad" coordinator. Please.

Again, you don't look smart, because YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. It actually was funny for a while, but now you're just sad. In your mind, you think you actually did something.

Anyone that feels "Vindicated" on an internet message board must have a lonely life. Good luck with your statistic keeping on Clemson/OU. Maybe you can write a book someday. Of course nobody but you will read it, but at least you'll be "vindicated".

Hit a nerve...

I have seen posts where you have been an apologist for obvious failings in regards to V's defense and I'm glad myself and others have made you notice your opinions were wrong. BTW, you don't know what is in my mind, nor do you know how lonely or not lonely my life is, however, I know you have 11,923 more posts on an internet message board. Being that as it may, I don’t think coming from you it’s best to have validation/loneliness synonymous with negative connoations with use on internet boards. You don’t know it, but you just insulted yourself…

[ObiKaTony]

It's almost comforting that the loss was due to play on the o-side of the ball. For the past several years, most (not necessarily all) have been because the D gave up 30+.

Really refreshing to see DB's wrapping up and limiting YAK, Mike finding players that want to play in the system, and an o-coordinator using all of his weapons.

Time to unleash the beast in the Cotton Bowl.

BOOMER

Very astute sir...

[8timechamps]

Hit a nerve...

I have seen posts where you have been an apologist for obvious failings in regards to V's defense and I'm glad myself and others have made you notice your opinions were wrong. BTW, you don't know what is in my mind, nor do you know how lonely or not lonely my life is, however, I know you have 11,923 more posts on an internet message board. Being that as it may, I don’t think coming from you it’s best to have validation/loneliness synonymous with negative connoations with use on internet boards. You don’t know it, but you just insulted yourself…

Not surprised you talk without knowing what you're talking about. I've posted on this site for well over 10 years, and really like most of the people that post here. You, on the other hand, have hardly posted here, and are already an inside joke. You're right about one thing, I don't know what's in your mind. I can only imagine.

By the way, what is "connoations"? I'll admit, I've never heard of that.

Edit: It just dawned on me that you are the person that made up stats to support your argument. Bwahahahaha!

[C&CDean]

Hit a nerve...

I have seen posts where you have been an apologist for obvious failings in regards to V's defense and I'm glad myself and others have made you notice your opinions were wrong. BTW, you don't know what is in my mind, nor do you know how lonely or not lonely my life is, however, I know you have 11,923 more posts on an internet message board. Being that as it may, I don’t think coming from you it’s best to have validation/loneliness synonymous with negative connoations with use on internet boards. You don’t know it, but you just insulted yourself…

Dude. Please stop. Did your momma give you a dictionary or something?

We all want OU to win. You believe that you...I mean YOU personally have something to do with OU's defense being marginally better than last year and it's all because of Mike Stoops and you proclaiming him the second coming of the messiah.

8times and myself have repeatedly stated "we sure as hell hope/pray Mike makes a huge difference" and leave it at that. We have not thrown BV under the bus like some of y'all because frankly, he's not a bad coach. We've got some serious player issues that I hope resolve themselves. If we can go "well that's because Mike is here" then great. However, it's not because of you. No matter how much you need vindication. Hell, that even sounds stupid typing it.

[goingoneight]

Obi... we're all happy to have Mike back and we're all happy that things are working out. Nobody here is not. Again, I ask... where were your kind when Heupel and Norvell's offense sputtered in the post-Kevin Wilson era? The people you're seeking attention from are the same people who have been realistic all along. Your kind have been after every single coach on staff the last 14 years. And no... you're not the "majority."

Have your mom hide your guns, please. There are teams that actually field offenses left on our schedule.

[ObiKaTony]

Obi... we're all happy to have Mike back and we're all happy that things are working out. Nobody here is not. Again, I ask... where were your kind when Heupel and Norvell's offense sputtered in the post-Kevin Wilson era? The people you're seeking attention from are the same people who have been realistic all along. Your kind have been after every single coach on staff the last 14 years. And no... you're not the "majority."

Have your mom hide your guns, please. There are teams that actually field offenses left on our schedule.

"My kind" Nice...

That being said, I had my moms' house built, so I know where all the hiding spots are so she can't do it. I was the majority that clamored on, and now the majority has been PROVEN right. I tried ending this earlier, but now I'm getting ganged up on. I don't think V is a good coach, and Stoops didn’t' think he was good enough to stay, you going to bash or call into question his sooner credentials? Your sanctimony smells to high heaven, and I'm going to end this thread by saying this:

I have been watching/posting on this board since 99 when that banner read OU 2000 national champs was the homepage for 2 years. When a link displayed Stoops Family Thanksgiving so please don’t' think I'm some fair weather fan. My OU roots go way back which includes my grandfather designing/making the 85 national championship rings and my dad wrestling/attending dental school @ OU with 25 other family members. We con't to have donor meeting @ the dental school so please don't tell me that in some fashion I am rooting AGAINST any coach or person, in fact, I'm rooting for OU to do better...Thanks

[8timechamps]

"My kind" Nice...

That being said, I had my moms' house built, so I know where all the hiding spots are so she can't do it. I was the majority that clamored on, and now the majority has been PROVEN right. I tried ending this earlier, but now I'm getting ganged up on. I don't think V is a good coach, and Stoops didn’t' think he was good enough to stay, you going to bash or call into question his sooner credentials? Your sanctimony smells to high heaven, and I'm going to end this thread by saying this:

I have been watching/posting on this board since 99 when that banner read OU 2000 national champs was the homepage for 2 years. When a link displayed Stoops Family Thanksgiving so please don’t' think I'm some fair weather fan. My OU roots go way back which includes my grandfather designing/making the 85 national championship rings and my dad wrestling/attending dental school @ OU with 25 other family members. We con't to have donor meeting @ the dental school so please don't tell me that in some fashion I am rooting AGAINST any coach or person, in fact, I'm rooting for OU to do better...Thanks

We don't need you to justify yourself to us. We're all just lonely message board nerds.

Since you really don't seem to understand, I'll try to explain...then put this thread out of it's misery.

You, and "the majority" had absolutely ZERO impact on BV leaving. You don't get an apology, because nobody owes you one. You are so hellbent on thinking you are right, that you fail to realize nobody cares. Really. It's fine that you don't think BV was/is a good coach, I can respect that you have an opinion. If you want to debate whether he's a good coach, or not, I'd be more than happy to have that discussion. THAT'S what I thought we were discussing originally. I never, not once, claimed he was better than Mike. In your mind, I did. Weird.

By your logic, what does it say that Bob not only kept Brent around as long as he did, but wasn't going to fire him? Are you going to "question his Sooner credentials"?

You were having an argument with someone, I still can't tell who. For someone that's supposedly been watching/posting here as long as you say you have, you don't seem to understand how to communicate with the regulars here. Seems odd, but whatever.

/end thread