Who Gets Credit For Taking Out bin Laden?

[hawaii 5-0]

A friend of mine is of the opinion there were other 'things in play' and Obama didn't give the order to send in the troops.

I was of the opinion there was a plan to send in a drone and blow up the whole compound. Someone objected, saying there should be proof it was bin Laden's body and then it was decided to send in troops for verification.

Who gave the 'go ahead'? Was it Obama or a lesser ranked generall, admiral or such that made the decision?

I'm really not sure where the truth lies.

I'm not referring to who actually pulled the trigger but who gave the order once it was established bin Laden was hiding out in Pakistan.

5-0

[Skysooner]

This kind of thing always stops with the President. Whether the President delegated or made the decision himself, he gets the credit. If they want to demonize him for every decision made beneath him, he gets the credit for the good things he has done.

[8timechamps]

I would think there was a standing order to take Bin Laden out, but I'm sure the President was in the loop and gave the final "OK". Since the raid had been planned well ahead of time, I think Obama was in a position to pick the time it was going to occur.

I also heard that there was a drone strike initially planned, but supposedly scraped in order to have evidence that is was Bin Laden. Interestingly though, very few have ever seen that evidence.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Uhmm, Seal Team 6 or whoever did the boots on the ground work to do recon and the mission.

[Breadburner]

Bush....Sure as **** wasn't anything Obama did.....

[Skysooner]

Bush....Sure as **** wasn't anything Obama did.....
Bush gave up. Sour grapes.

[badger]

Uhmm, Seal Team 6 or whoever did the boots on the ground work to do recon and the mission.

Is this one of those "players win games, coaches lose games" scenarios?

If not, then I think you have to credit to Team America, rather than the actual soldiers here. Intelligence gave us his location, the SEALs went in, the president gave the order, and others assisted in giving him a secret Islam burial at sea.

Many were involved and it couldn't have gotten carried out without many.

[LiveLaughLove]

Obama does and should get the credit.

I think he more or less, fell in to it, and I am sure he had his butt covered if it had went badly.

But thank the Lord, it went almost perfectly, and none of our men were killed.

Now Obama, also gets the "credit" for the majority of deaths of our men in Afghanistan. In Bush' 8 years we had only lost like 500 men. In Obama's 3+ another 1500.

That's an appalling 600% per year increase. Something's wrong with that for sure.

[Sooner5030]

not a big fan of obama....but the decision to approve inserting a team deep into pakistan using a "stealthly" UH-60 took balls. So many things could have went wrong.

He's exceeded my expectations in some areas. I still think he kinda sucks though.

[Breadburner]

Bush gave up. Sour grapes.

Lol....You are quite brain dead....

[Soonerjeepman]

I thought he was against the actual timing or something and a lower general actually gave the go ahead...but Ill contend he was the Prez when it happened, course I wonder if he would have taken the blame if things went bad?

like Holder and fast and furious...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Badj, I'll give you a Team America on this "F' Yeah". I just don't think that many in D.C. who are claiming credit did a lot to make the mission happen. I mean, yes, there has to be approval and an order. But I suspect much of this was in the planning and only when the stars aligned was the permission requested. But you are correct, this was a Team America win.

[Skysooner]

Bush gave up. Sour grapes.

Lol....You are quite brain dead....
Bush gave up. It is fact. You are just sounding moronic now but given the source not surprising.

[Mississippi Sooner]

As I said before, Obama didn't kill bin Laden. The government killed bin Laden.

:)

[rock on sooner]

I thought he was against the actual timing or something and a lower general actually gave the go ahead...but Ill contend he was the Prez when it happened, course I wonder if he would have taken the blame if things went bad?

like Holder and fast and furious...

Three star Admiral McRaven was the on the ground commander in Afghanistan,
in satellite radio contact with the White House. He got the go ahead from Obama,
over the objection of Biden and a few others. If you're not familiar with military
rank, a three star Admiral is not a lower general, by any means..Army & Air Force
equivalent is Lt. General, only higher is four star.

[OU_Sooners75]

This kind of thing always stops with the President. Whether the President delegated or made the decision himself, he gets the credit. If they want to demonize him for every decision made beneath him, he gets the credit for the good things he has done.

Would you say the same thing if McCain, or Bush, or any republican was in office?

Most of you political posts suggest otherwise.

[badger]

only higher is four star.

Texas A&M made a dog a five-star general.

This is why we packaged and sent them to the SEC with a little bow on top.

[rock on sooner]

Texas A&M made a dog a five-star general.

This is why we packaged and sent them to the SEC with a little bow on top.

Heh, five star is usually head of the Joint Chiefs, Ike was a five star...

[OU_Sooners75]

Bush gave up. Sour grapes.

Oooookay!

Bush gave up? I wouldn't say credit goes to Bush, even with the fact that there was an executive warrant for bin laden, dead or alive. And an award for $25 miilion for the person that gave the information leading to his arrest or death. That was done under Bush.

So the standing order from Bush was very much in effect.


That said, IMO the order was given by a very high ranking General or Admiral. And only signed off on by Obama to fullfil the warrant issued under Bush.

I think credit goes to Obama, Bush, the intelligence department, and most of all to the US military.

[rock on sooner]

Would you say the same thing if McCain, or Bush, or any republican was in office?

Most of you political posts suggest otherwise.

Carter took the heat for the failed rescue mission for the Iranian hostages.
Dubya most assuredly deserves the heat for the Iraq war. If he'd just
focused on Afghanistan and listened to the commander of the 10th Mountain
when they had bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora, he'd be the hero.

[StoopTroup]

Lol....You are quite brain dead....

It always goes to name calling and the ole Internet tough guy bullying.

You can almost count on it with anything that has to do with events under this administration. It's not to say it didn't happen when Bush was POTUS. It did. It just goes to show you that there are always going to be blind and ignorant on both sides. Unfortunately it seems that since Obama got elected there has been a real heavy influence of racist folks who refuse to accept anything that would give credit to a Black President. It's proof lies in the last debate. Romney could say anything and unbelievably the President didnt counter him. Instead he left the context of what was said for all of us to read and comprehend.

I think that one day People will begin to put more stock in what these guys say in debates and pay attention when one candidate suddenly changes his entire campaign in order to win a debate. The promises Romney made the other night would have never gotten him the nomination. If folks can't see that he made promises that his Party didn't want him to make and that even before he's possibly elected, they have a huge problem on their hands and that Ryan even has to know that he's going to be a pawn in Romney's Administration...it's just not time historically that people are educated about the issues and are still going to believe that one man didn't or did make the call to kill Bin Laden. That we can now always lay blame on the system and not one man. That no one man should ever get credit for the actions he made as POTUS. That we can elect any brain dead to run our Country. And if that's true....I don't understand why the same folks who think other people are brain dead complained about President Obama not talking to other leaders when the UN held its shindig. Or why anyone would blame the POTUS for the Death of an Ambassador. Or why anyone would blame an administration for commenting to people outside their doorstep that they didn't believe what was said in a movie trailer created by a Coptic Christian who incited riots in the Muslim World intentionally.

Basically, everything that is wrong or good is because of our System of Government.

And if that's true then why are people so quick to want BHO out of office? Any brain dead American can run things. :rolls eyes :

[OU_Sooners75]

Three star Admiral McRaven was the on the ground commander in Afghanistan,
in satellite radio contact with the White House. He got the go ahead from Obama,
over the objection of Biden and a few others. If you're not familiar with military
rank, a three star Admiral is not a lower general, by any means..Army & Air Force
equivalent is Lt. General, only higher is four star.

I wouldn't call anyone that has a star lower ranking. Sure the one star is the loweswt rank, but the political process, along with the testing and years one has to put in to become any rank of general is extraordinary.


Much like my Uncle that holds a rank of E-9. The years and process he has had to go through to get there is amazing.

[OU_Sooners75]

Carter took the heat for the failed rescue mission for the Iranian hostages.
Dubya most assuredly deserves the heat for the Iraq war. If he'd just
focused on Afghanistan and listened to the commander of the 10th Mountain
when they had bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora, he'd be the hero.

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

Nothing. Nor does it have anything to do with a standing executive warrant for the arrest or death of Usama bin Laden.

Just because Bush chose a different path doesn't make it any less credible on his part.

Hell, ill speculate to the point if Al Gore was in office instead of Bush, we would have never seen the war in Afghanistan in the first place. Just a few tomahawks like his daddy Clinton did after the USS Cole and embassy bombings. And we would most certainly have seen another attack on US soil by now, or been very fearful of it.

[cleller]

One thing is for sure. One of Obama's big supporters is trying to at least goose the public into believing Obama deserves some sort of credit. Harvey Weinstein produced a film about the Bin Laden raid that is airing on Nat Geo 2 days before the election.

Obama is such a political dove he'd have never found Bin Laden if his policies were in play after 9-11. Just ask Leon Panetta.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/ondeadline/2012/10/04/osama-bin-laden-national-geographic-film/1614277/

[rock on sooner]

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

Nothing. Nor does it have anything to do with a standing executive warrant for the arrest or death of Usama bin Laden.

Just because Bush chose a different path doesn't make it any less credible on his part.

Hell, ill speculate to the point if Al Gore was in office instead of Bush, we would have never seen the war in Afghanistan in the first place. Just a few tomahawks like his daddy Clinton did after the USS Cole and embassy bombings. And we would most certainly have seen another attack on US soil by now, or been very fearful of it.

75, you miss my point or I wasn't clear, I meant that the POTUS
always takes the heat, no matter what. Dubya gets it because of
going into Iraq, alledgedly after WMD's. Carter got it for obvious
reasons. I think you underestimate Gore. Gore would have hunted
bin Laden to hell, if necessary, and I don't think he would have gone
into Iraq.

[rock on sooner]

One thing is for sure. One of Obama's big supporters is trying to at least goose the public into believing Obama deserves some sort of credit. Harvey Weinstein produced a film about the Bin Laden raid that is airing on Nat Geo 2 days before the election.

Obama is such a political dove he'd have never found Bin Laden if his policies were in play after 9-11. Just ask Leon Panetta.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/ondeadline/2012/10/04/osama-bin-laden-national-geographic-film/1614277/

Cleller, did you miss the part where Obama told his staff right after
being inaugurated that finding bin Laden was a top priority?

[XingTheRubicon]

So was cutting the deficit in half.



Obama just happened to be sitting there when the dept of defense killed BL.

[Skysooner]

Would you say the same thing if McCain, or Bush, or any republican was in office?

Most of you political posts suggest otherwise.

Doesn't sound like you read me very much. I would be considered a centrist in most other states. I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative and the fiscal part for government dominates. I voted for Bush twice and only barely voted for Obama the last time. I would have been perfectly happy with McCain (not the brain-dead Palin and really not okay with Biden). Any President gets credit for this.

If, as you say, you have followed my posts, you would realize that what I totally despise is neanderthal rhetoric that comes from some sources without a discussion of the issues. Also you would realize that I am planning on voting for Romney which I have said on numerous occasions. It is the hard-core right-wing though that gives me pause and makes me think I might be making a mistake with that.

While some of this article would be described as partisan, many of the facts about Tora Bora and Bush shutting down the CIA unit that was searching for Osama are mentioned in many other places.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/050711.html

[cleller]

Cleller, did you miss the part where Obama told his staff right after
being inaugurated that finding bin Laden was a top priority?

Well, I wasn't in the meeting that day, but I along with everyone else probably assumed finding Bin Laden was one of his priorities. Would any US leader not say this was a top priority, even if was somewhere below golf and fundraising? Probably right up there with halving the deficit, which he promised the country he would do.

Did you miss the part where Leon Panetta told NBC that waterboarding elicited valuable info used to find Bin Laden? Now since both Obama and Panetta said that waterboarding was torture, wrong, and would not be used, should we infer the info originated under Bush? Does he deserve credit?

Its not like the CIA et al, would have been sitting around, ignoring Bin Laden, untill one day a bureaucrat walks in and says, "Listen up, the pres says finding Bin Laden is a top priority!"
I just find it irksome that this issue keeps popping up when Obama has something to gain from it. The proper stance would be to stand back, and laud the people who actually did the work. It might be tough for him, though, as he was critical of them, calling their methods torture, etc.

[KABOOKIE]

Bush. Anything (D)s have shown me is that it was all Bush's fault.

[soonercruiser]

How about some facts in the Bin Laden story?
Anybody read the seal's book yet?

I have had it about a week.
I guess that this wekend's weather is a good reason to start it.

[Skysooner]

How about some facts in the Bin Laden story?
Anybody read the seal's book yet?

I have had it about a week.
I guess that this wekend's weather is a good reason to start it.

The Seal would know who authorized this? Would love to read the story, but it isn't relevant to this thread.

[rock on sooner]

Doesn't sound like you read me very much. I would be considered a centrist in most other states. I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative and the fiscal part for government dominates. I voted for Bush twice and only barely voted for Obama the last time. I would have been perfectly happy with McCain (not the brain-dead Palin and really not okay with Biden). Any President gets credit for this.

If, as you say, you have followed my posts, you would realize that what I totally despise is neanderthal rhetoric that comes from some sources without a discussion of the issues. Also you would realize that I am planning on voting for Romney which I have said on numerous occasions. It is the hard-core right-wing though that gives me pause and makes me think I might be making a mistake with that.

While some of this article would be described as partisan, many of the facts about Tora Bora and Bush shutting down the CIA unit that was searching for Osama are mentioned in many other places.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/050711.html

I thought I was pretty well informed about bin Laden and Bush, but if
even half of what that article says is accurate, then Dubya is an even
bigger fool and puppet than I thought. I have no idea if that is all true
but, holy cow, so many lives lost, so much treasure wasted just so
an incompetent dunce could continue to function as a leader. It borders
on criminal...

[soonercruiser]

Criminal....kinda like not protecting our embassador and consulate in Libya?
Selective outrage.

[rock on sooner]

How about some facts in the Bin Laden story?
Anybody read the seal's book yet?

I have had it about a week.
I guess that this wekend's weather is a good reason to start it.

I've read the book, talks mostly about the compound's layout, the mechanics
leading up to the raid, training and execution of other missions and how they
factored into the final assault..not much about bin Laden's deception. Did
give credence to his being in Abbotabad for a long time. I'm convinced that
ISI (Pakistani secret police) is neck deep in the protection of bin Laden, only
a couple of miles away from their version of West Point and took an extended
period of time to respond to the firefight, helicopter crash and susequent explosions
destroying the downed chopper.

[OU_Sooners75]

I thought I was pretty well informed about bin Laden and Bush, but if
even half of what that article says is accurate, then Dubya is an even
bigger fool and puppet than I thought. I have no idea if that is all true
but, holy cow, so many lives lost, so much treasure wasted just so
an incompetent dunce could continue to function as a leader. It borders
on criminal...

Didn't Sudan offer to turn bin Laden over to the US (and Bill Clinton) in return to lifting some sanctions, or some such stuff, back in 1996?

I mean, if you are going to finger point at one, finger point at all!

[rock on sooner]

Criminal....kinda like not protecting our embassador and consulate in Libya?
Selective outrage.

Selective spin, Cruiser...there is some difference between a consulate and
a whole f****** war! Missed or delayed inteliigence versus a deliberate
diversion from a mission, false or intentional change of direction. There is
a great deal of evidence that Dubya wanted to get Saddam because he was
behind the attempt on HW's life. It is on record that at every turn Dubya
asked/demanded proof that Saddam was behind it all. WMDs were a
fabricated argument that the only Pub I respect got sucked into...Powell
was duped (He's said as much). No way on God's green earth that you
spin away from Dubya being a dunce, sucker, fool that history will record
just that.

[rock on sooner]

Didn't Sudan offer to turn bin Laden over to the US (and Bill Clinton) in return to lifting some sanctions, or some such stuff, back in 1996?

I mean, if you are going to finger point at one, finger point at all!

What I read on that was that on the ground intell said that he was in a so called
factory and the decision was to strike the factory and keep the sanctions in place.
Apparently, another intell failure. Instead, Sudan expelled bin Laden and he
went to Afghanistan, where later the US missed his leadership meeting by two
hours or so with another round of cruise missiles.

[rock on sooner]

The Seal would know who authorized this? Would love to read the story, but it isn't relevant to this thread.

The SEAL pointed out that McRaven was in contact with the White House
and got the go ahead for the action.

[Skysooner]

The Seal would know who authorized this? Would love to read the story, but it isn't relevant to this thread.

The SEAL pointed out that McRaven was in contact with the White House
and got the go ahead for the action.
Which is exactly what should have happened. This was a situation that had to be authorized by the President.